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Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others

 
Lady Wolf

User ID: 13547009
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03/02/2013 07:50 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
lady: this is anom, i logged in because i get banned to much as anonymous.

--

jesus meant that he brought us the message of the goal,
but that the way was one of pain...

this is why he brought the sword, even when he was love.

he knew the parables would be closed for many for many thousand of years to come...

make a difference, goal and way towards,

religion mostly starts from the goal and then sees sinners,
christ starts from the way and sees gains in everybody.
 Quoting: onelastcloud


interesting hypothesis. I'm not sure this is what i get out of this passage but it is an interesting alternative meaning.
Real truth is self evident...
Lady Wolf

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03/02/2013 08:00 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
And you're a wonderful friend to me as well.

Let's just focus on spreading His love with the world, and let the Holy Spirit do the growing, correcting and changing as need be in each person along the way. You're doing an awesome job, keep on going and remember the love above all else.

:jesus404:
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Thank you, Lisa - as usual, you are correct, and you have showed me the error of my ways. I am so defensive about people who distort the message that I don't see the power that the Holy Spirit has on us to make the determination for us. I keep trying to force or control something I have no business controlling, and I need to trust in Christ that He will guide those chosen to our Father's Kingdom. Thank you :-)


 Quoting: Rising Son


I'm sorry, I know this was addressed to Lisa, but I feel compelled to jump in here and give my two cents so please forgive me if I'm being rude.

OP, While only you and God knows what is in your heart and why you felt compelled to post this thread, as one who is reading this thread, I can't help but feel you were not wrong in posting this. "For how will they know unless we tell them?" "And the harvest is plentiful and requires many workers." These two scriptures immediately come to mind to explain what I am saying. All you have done with this thread is to inform people who come here about truth and what the Bible teaches and SAYS about the sin of homosexuality. You have had a loving and a matter of fact attitude about getting this oh so badly needed truth out and I for one applaud your willingness to do it! If your heart was pure in its intention to post this thread, and I feel that it was just based on your words and tone alone, than you have done nothing to be ashamed of or to feel bad about.

Lisa, you seem to be a very kind and loving Christian. While those are admirable traits for a Christian to have, only you know for certain your intentions of a loving rebuttal to OP's thread. However, I also feel it's important that love must not be confused or be at the behest of truth! You are absolutely right that God is the one to finish the work that He has started in us. That He and He alone is able to convict us or make us aware of the sin in our lives. But I must ask you this. How do you know for certain that God is not using the OP and this thread for that very thing? God uses people AS WELL AS other Christians all the time to insure His will is done. How do you know God is not using this very thread to reach out to those on GLP to convict them of their sin? You don't. So for you to tell the OP that God is the one to show us sin in our lives and not the OP, you are basically doing the same thing that you feel the OP is doing, because you don't know that God isn't using the OP for this work. Your response to him, while loving, was also a bit on the stifling side in terms of your attempt to stifle this message.

I hope my loving rebuke to you as a Christian sister is not seen as combative not unloving. But we all know that God works in mysterious ways! peace
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


Well, I could be wrong....but I'd be willing to bet that almost all homosexuals in this country are well aware that the christian church and the bible says that homosexuality is a sin. In fact, there is a thread about it just about every few weeks just here on GLP alone. I cringe when I see everyone one of them.

I don't cringe becasue it's not the truth, it is the truth. It is a sin, and you'll never hear me say otherwise. I cringe becasue they already know that and it only makes them feel more alienated by God and pushes them away farther, the majority of them. I know this to be a fact, not speculation...fact.

I know the intentions are good, I get that, and I understand it, and it's not my intentions to hurt my brothers and sisters here, but rather try to show them that maybe this isn't effective, that maybe there is a better way.

Listen, I'm a fat lady. I sure as heck know it. I don't need someone to walk up to me and tell me that I'm fat. I"m also a smoker, and I'm well aware that my cigarette smoke sinks and is unhealthy. I already know that too. If a group of people were to continue to point out my flaws, over and over again, even tho I already am aware of it, I would consider it ignorant and hostile and I would move as far away from those people as possible, as quickly as I could.

Now if someone were to tell me how much Jesus loves me, that He fashioned me with His own hands, and that He understands my pain and my inner most thoughts and feelings, and that He wants me to get to know Him on a personal level because He really cares about me, well maybe I'd listen to that.

Jesus will meet a person wherever they are in life. A person does not have to be perfect to come to Him and be saved. I put up a thread yesterday that demonstrates that and shows His love for all people and that He saves the most broken of all of us. It is after that the Holy Spirit will work on a person's heart to make changes as the Lord sees fit, each according to his own progress, circumstances and ability. This is the truth.

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Ok. That does make sense. Sort of a fly honey/vinegar analogy. So are you saying then that when Jesus told us how the harvest was plentiful and many workers were needed, that He was talking about telling people of His love for them and not telling people the truth about sin? You're saying that the Holy Spirit will eventually convict them of the sin in their lives? That makes sense too. However...again, how do you know that this thread is not doing just that? How do you know God is not using the OP to get this message out to those who need to hear it?

You spoke of many threads who are against homosexuality. I believe the threads you're referring to are more like "gay bashing" threads. I've seen them too and I too cringe when I read some of their inflammatory titles. But I would submit to you that this thread has more of a tone of love and Christian instruction to it than does a thread that is entitled, and I quote, "God hates fags." I'm sure you can see a stark contrast between the two.

All I'm saying is maybe we ought to not be so quick as to misjudge threads such as this one that seeks to only help in love. Tough love? Possibly, but still obviously posted in loving Christian correction.
Real truth is self evident...
Lisa*Lisa

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03/02/2013 08:14 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
...


Thank you, Lisa - as usual, you are correct, and you have showed me the error of my ways. I am so defensive about people who distort the message that I don't see the power that the Holy Spirit has on us to make the determination for us. I keep trying to force or control something I have no business controlling, and I need to trust in Christ that He will guide those chosen to our Father's Kingdom. Thank you :-)


 Quoting: Rising Son


I'm sorry, I know this was addressed to Lisa, but I feel compelled to jump in here and give my two cents so please forgive me if I'm being rude.

OP, While only you and God knows what is in your heart and why you felt compelled to post this thread, as one who is reading this thread, I can't help but feel you were not wrong in posting this. "For how will they know unless we tell them?" "And the harvest is plentiful and requires many workers." These two scriptures immediately come to mind to explain what I am saying. All you have done with this thread is to inform people who come here about truth and what the Bible teaches and SAYS about the sin of homosexuality. You have had a loving and a matter of fact attitude about getting this oh so badly needed truth out and I for one applaud your willingness to do it! If your heart was pure in its intention to post this thread, and I feel that it was just based on your words and tone alone, than you have done nothing to be ashamed of or to feel bad about.

Lisa, you seem to be a very kind and loving Christian. While those are admirable traits for a Christian to have, only you know for certain your intentions of a loving rebuttal to OP's thread. However, I also feel it's important that love must not be confused or be at the behest of truth! You are absolutely right that God is the one to finish the work that He has started in us. That He and He alone is able to convict us or make us aware of the sin in our lives. But I must ask you this. How do you know for certain that God is not using the OP and this thread for that very thing? God uses people AS WELL AS other Christians all the time to insure His will is done. How do you know God is not using this very thread to reach out to those on GLP to convict them of their sin? You don't. So for you to tell the OP that God is the one to show us sin in our lives and not the OP, you are basically doing the same thing that you feel the OP is doing, because you don't know that God isn't using the OP for this work. Your response to him, while loving, was also a bit on the stifling side in terms of your attempt to stifle this message.

I hope my loving rebuke to you as a Christian sister is not seen as combative not unloving. But we all know that God works in mysterious ways! peace
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


Well, I could be wrong....but I'd be willing to bet that almost all homosexuals in this country are well aware that the christian church and the bible says that homosexuality is a sin. In fact, there is a thread about it just about every few weeks just here on GLP alone. I cringe when I see everyone one of them.

I don't cringe becasue it's not the truth, it is the truth. It is a sin, and you'll never hear me say otherwise. I cringe becasue they already know that and it only makes them feel more alienated by God and pushes them away farther, the majority of them. I know this to be a fact, not speculation...fact.

I know the intentions are good, I get that, and I understand it, and it's not my intentions to hurt my brothers and sisters here, but rather try to show them that maybe this isn't effective, that maybe there is a better way.

Listen, I'm a fat lady. I sure as heck know it. I don't need someone to walk up to me and tell me that I'm fat. I"m also a smoker, and I'm well aware that my cigarette smoke sinks and is unhealthy. I already know that too. If a group of people were to continue to point out my flaws, over and over again, even tho I already am aware of it, I would consider it ignorant and hostile and I would move as far away from those people as possible, as quickly as I could.

Now if someone were to tell me how much Jesus loves me, that He fashioned me with His own hands, and that He understands my pain and my inner most thoughts and feelings, and that He wants me to get to know Him on a personal level because He really cares about me, well maybe I'd listen to that.

Jesus will meet a person wherever they are in life. A person does not have to be perfect to come to Him and be saved. I put up a thread yesterday that demonstrates that and shows His love for all people and that He saves the most broken of all of us. It is after that the Holy Spirit will work on a person's heart to make changes as the Lord sees fit, each according to his own progress, circumstances and ability. This is the truth.

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Ok. That does make sense. Sort of a fly honey/vinegar analogy. So are you saying then that when Jesus told us how the harvest was plentiful and many workers were needed, that He was talking about telling people of His love for them and not telling people the truth about sin? You're saying that the Holy Spirit will eventually convict them of the sin in their lives? That makes sense too. However...again, how do you know that this thread is not doing just that? How do you know God is not using the OP to get this message out to those who need to hear it?

You spoke of many threads who are against homosexuality. I believe the threads you're referring to are more like "gay bashing" threads. I've seen them too and I too cringe when I read some of their inflammatory titles. But I would submit to you that this thread has more of a tone of love and Christian instruction to it than does a thread that is entitled, and I quote, "God hates fags." I'm sure you can see a stark contrast between the two.

All I'm saying is maybe we ought to not be so quick as to misjudge threads such as this one that seeks to only help in love. Tough love? Possibly, but still obviously posted in loving Christian correction.
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


A person can be lovingly wrong........lol. For a brother or sister to say that a homosexual can't be a christian is WRONG. A statement like this shuts the door in the face of all homosexuals.

Many homosexuals have come to Jesus and built a relationship with Him. What Jesus reveals to them about their sin is between that person and Jesus.

Jesus saved me while I was living in sin, and over many years helped me to change where change was needed. Many a good meaning christian would have pointed the finger at me and said "she's not saved" when in fact only the Lord knew the truth about my heart. In fact, I'm still changing! We all are! That's the whole point, being a christian is a life long process, or life long relationship with Jesus.

It's not a moment in time, it's a life long commitment and relationship with Him that grows, evolves and matures over a lifetime.

I did things years ago that I can't imagine doing today. I probably do things today that I won't be doing or saying years from now. It's a process, a marriage. Not a membership or ticket, or one moment in time.

It's about getting to know Him, growing in love with Him, learning how to be more like Him because you want to. It's about reaching higher, expanding your heart becasue when you get right down to it, all sin is a matter of the heart.

I feel like I'm just rambling now and not getting through to anyone, so I'll just stop. Have a blessed day:)

hf
Have You Accepted Jesus As Your Savior Yet? What Are You Waiting For?

____________________________


"Tell them, I love them" - Jesus Christ

"If love were a tree, compassion would be its fruit." - unknown
____________________________

A dear friend's website [link to www.savemenowjesus.com]

_____________________________

Do you have questions about God or need a friend to talk to? Email me at LisaLovesJesus7@gmail.com
___________________________

2 Corinthians 12:9 - "Each time he said, "My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness." So now I am glad to boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ can work through me."

_________________________

One of the greatest things you can do for God is to show love to His other kids.
Lisa*Lisa

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03/02/2013 08:57 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Ok, one last post then I'm done:)

I'll share with you guys something that I've learned over the years. Sin is all about the heart.......not a list of rules.

Let me explain.

I am by no means a perfect person, in fact.....if I were to examine my life, my thoughts, my actions, my words and compared them to Jesus Christ......I'm a vile and disgusting evil asshole.

Let's keep it real, ok? No candy coating, just the real deal.

I sin on a daily basis. Yea, choice words come out of my mouth almost daily.......and be sure I think them daily even if I don't say it.

Sure......a good looking man walks by, or on the tv and I sure do think "Well, check him out!"

I'm a smoker........I puff away all day long. I'm known to have a glass or two of wine and get pretty tipsy.

I get into arguments with all of my family, and sometimes I really get pissed off!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes I even hold a grudge for a day or two....cause I want to.

I've been known to take the larger piece of cake for myself, on occasion.

I speed when I'm driving, don't always wear my seatbelt, and have done much worse then that.

Ok, so we have established that I"m no saint here, but even still, I do have a close relationship with Jesus. Now, you know when I've had the boom lowered on my head? When I've been really out of line and He corrected me severely?

I'll tell you when........when I hurt someone, my brother or my sister. When I hurt them while being self-righteous. I felt justified, and as far as doctrine goe, I was 100% right. But, I hurt them, and as far as Jesus was concerned I was 100% wrong. So wrong in fact that He wouldn't even let me pray until I humbled myself before those people and apologized and made it right.

I'll tell you guys, the biggest sin of all is hurting others in the name of God. Using Him as a weapon against others is a terrible thing. Pushing people away from Him is incredibly hurtful because when you remove all the candy coating, we are all evil, vile assholes ourselves. One no better then the other when we compare ourselves to Jesus Christ.

It is by His grace, by His sacrifice, by His mercy, by His forgiveness that ANY of us make it to heaven because each and every one of us deserves to go straight to hell.

When we argue about doctrines, fight about verses and meanings, when we point out eachother's sins, when we put obstacles in the paths of the unbelievers.......we are doing the same thing the pharisees did, either knowingly or unknowingly.

I'm not calling anyone here a pharisee, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that we should all examine our own hearts and be careful of our words so that we don't become a pharisee in our hearts because we are all assholes and none of us should ever forget that.

My cousin told me what happened in her church years ago. Durring the service a homeless man walked in and sat down in one of the rows of benches and was listening to the sermon. He obviously had not bathed in a long time and yes he smelled bad. They actually asked him to leave. Yes, that really happened. He was escorted out.

I have no doubt that the wretched stench from the people who asked him to leave reached the nostrils of God in a profound way........even tho they were bathed, pretty, well dressed, and perfumed. What an abomination.

Ok........I'm now rambling on again. Now all that I've said.....if I have hurt anyone here, offended anyone here, or made anyone feel bad......please accept my apology. I am in no way trying to put anyone down or hurt anyone, just trying to show maybe another way of thinking about things. God bless everyone.......we are all assholes. :):)

hf

Last Edited by Lisa*Lisa on 03/02/2013 09:26 AM
Have You Accepted Jesus As Your Savior Yet? What Are You Waiting For?

____________________________


"Tell them, I love them" - Jesus Christ

"If love were a tree, compassion would be its fruit." - unknown
____________________________

A dear friend's website [link to www.savemenowjesus.com]

_____________________________

Do you have questions about God or need a friend to talk to? Email me at LisaLovesJesus7@gmail.com
___________________________

2 Corinthians 12:9 - "Each time he said, "My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness." So now I am glad to boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ can work through me."

_________________________

One of the greatest things you can do for God is to show love to His other kids.
onelastcloud

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03/02/2013 01:02 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
my sweet christians, although i like the mails about the personal situations and my sympathy is there with the stories

u still didnt point me to where the gospel condems homosexuality, and as a result including me.

one said,if you want to heal of homosexuality you will, still my story of youth is a lot skipped when this dogma is told...see previous mails. i believe some can lead a destructive life of no sex ofcourse, which i also parted in once, and yes the energy goes to god, but there goes even more energy to god in the search when one enjoys things and they are taken from him, this will teach him to love another in spirit, not in words...

then enoch was taken in heaven, still he was a man, and the visions he received were of nature that thay were symbolic, even the nature of the fallen angels, which everybody thinks is leteral...heaven is not a place, so one doe snot go up, heaven always comes down, to be in heaven means being free of lifesturggle and sin, so if parables are received, like in those old times, everything was parable (jacobs dream, josephs dreams, faraos dreams, daniels dreams), and one comes to tell of them, they were not enjoying heaven, so they maybe so only one room in it, the story-room, the symbol room.

then even if everything around us point to a god, it is not lear which god, until logic can confirm the stories, there is something strange with logic, something the greatest scientist could not see, but in the end it confirms god, and aftr it it confirms the structure of the bible an other holy books, and explains the parables, still many try to find religion through a false faith, a faith that is not based on prooving god, but by guessing (testing) god.

all religions have miracles, and it is one reason why jesus was not accepted by the old faith of judeah, still it were his words and intentions that allowed people to see who he was, the miracles only pushed the attention into his direction. if miracles cant proof god, no book can do it, only logic, and the 4 corners of logic, can be found, through the desire to do it, this is called faith, but faith that is build on doubt, not on salvation.
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 01:18 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Why won't this thread just die?

Want to bring up another thing. When something bad happens, someone says God is testing them. That means God controls evil and makes bad things happen. If that is the case then he is sending people to hell for things that he them do. People are born with brains that make it so they don't feel, so they end up killing people, and now those people go to hell? How is that fair.
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 05:06 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
I hear often from gay rights activists that Jesus Christ never spoke out about homosexuality or that He never mentioned sexual orientation. This is to set the record straight, so that those with an agenda can stop claiming things they know nothing about.

This first passage is Jesus Christ speaking out against homosexuality. Notice that He differentiates between adultery and sexual immorality - this is important to note because the term 'homosexuality' was not common during His time obviously, so He used the term sexual immorality - separate from adultery - to encompass homosexuality and any other sexual wickedness that is immoral:

Mark 7:21-22

"For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly."

This next passage is Jesus' affirmation of the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman. He even goes as far as referencing the story of Creation in which God created male and female. Notice how He specifies a man and wife, not a man and his partner or a woman and her partner:

Matthew 19:4-5

"Haven't you read," He replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?"

So, do not let anyone tell you that Jesus Christ never spoke out against homosexuality, and that He didn't support traditional marriage. Furthermore, it is not possible for you to be a gay Christian. That is the same thing as claiming to be a Christian thief - if you are unrepentant for your sin and you continue that sin in ignorance of Jesus' teachings, you are a walking contradiction.

With all of this being said, it is wrong to cast judgment on others if we ourselves are in need of judgment. However, it is also wrong to support and sponsor immorality while at the same time denigrating the traditional definition of marriage, as Jesus taught us. We all should love homosexuals as we love each other, and in that love, we should yearn to help them overcome their illness of the mind.
 Quoting: Rising Son

Since Jesus Christ is God we don't know what he said. You're using quotes from jewish jesus. He is the highest jewish initiate who sold himself to the devil. I wouldn't trust that guy for anything.
onelastcloud

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03/02/2013 09:21 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Why won't this thread just die?

Want to bring up another thing. When something bad happens, someone says God is testing them. That means God controls evil and makes bad things happen. If that is the case then he is sending people to hell for things that he them do. People are born with brains that make it so they don't feel, so they end up killing people, and now those people go to hell? How is that fair.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28899888


actually thats religious dogma also, god is not really testing one, one is testing himself and god lets him take an automatic burden...religion as in generalisation has the instinct to always turn the role of god inversed...

god created creation by allowance, not by active invoking,
because his body with all in it, was allready there, still not there,

this lead to creation taken over gods dual face, or the angel of lie, (angels are pinrciples, not individuals, who seomtimes appeared literal, still as automatic being in the principle, to teach us, religion still hold on to those images, not the abstract force they are)
meaning creation are you, you test yourself,, creation has choice, you have choice, creation is jealous, you are jealous, still creation is also god that is indirect jealous, still he is not...

this is the paradox explaine din the books, not understood by religion nor by science, still it is logical.

it doesnt die, because i still love to discuss in my free time, and a lot of people here too i guess :D haha
Lady Wolf

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03/03/2013 03:59 AM
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...


Excuse me, but how is pointing out what the Bible says concerning sin hateful?
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


I'm not sure some of them will ever admit it, Ladywolf. Sometimes pride will not allow us to admit when we're wrong, and when that happens, it's like talking to a brick wall. You can present them with an inordinate amount of evidence in both Testaments, logically and analytically explain your point, and they will still just say your a hater. What they fail to understand is the real hate is indifference and apathy. Admonition as you pointed out is the tough love that they all lack.
 Quoting: Rising Son


I suppose it is up to us then to know when our pearls of Biblical wisdom and teaching have been cast before swine? I just have a tough time knowing when that is...but I suppose I will get better with time. After all...I too am a work in progress. :)
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


I sent you message about St Malachi and Noahide Laws and gave good karma for defending the word.
 Quoting: ParadigmShift


Thank you!! That was very kind of you hf

Last Edited by Lady Wolf on 03/03/2013 03:59 AM
Real truth is self evident...
Anonymous Coward
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03/03/2013 04:05 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
*stomps on thread* Die thread! Die!
Lady Wolf

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03/03/2013 04:13 AM
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...


I'm sorry, I know this was addressed to Lisa, but I feel compelled to jump in here and give my two cents so please forgive me if I'm being rude.

OP, While only you and God knows what is in your heart and why you felt compelled to post this thread, as one who is reading this thread, I can't help but feel you were not wrong in posting this. "For how will they know unless we tell them?" "And the harvest is plentiful and requires many workers." These two scriptures immediately come to mind to explain what I am saying. All you have done with this thread is to inform people who come here about truth and what the Bible teaches and SAYS about the sin of homosexuality. You have had a loving and a matter of fact attitude about getting this oh so badly needed truth out and I for one applaud your willingness to do it! If your heart was pure in its intention to post this thread, and I feel that it was just based on your words and tone alone, than you have done nothing to be ashamed of or to feel bad about.

Lisa, you seem to be a very kind and loving Christian. While those are admirable traits for a Christian to have, only you know for certain your intentions of a loving rebuttal to OP's thread. However, I also feel it's important that love must not be confused or be at the behest of truth! You are absolutely right that God is the one to finish the work that He has started in us. That He and He alone is able to convict us or make us aware of the sin in our lives. But I must ask you this. How do you know for certain that God is not using the OP and this thread for that very thing? God uses people AS WELL AS other Christians all the time to insure His will is done. How do you know God is not using this very thread to reach out to those on GLP to convict them of their sin? You don't. So for you to tell the OP that God is the one to show us sin in our lives and not the OP, you are basically doing the same thing that you feel the OP is doing, because you don't know that God isn't using the OP for this work. Your response to him, while loving, was also a bit on the stifling side in terms of your attempt to stifle this message.

I hope my loving rebuke to you as a Christian sister is not seen as combative not unloving. But we all know that God works in mysterious ways! peace
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


Well, I could be wrong....but I'd be willing to bet that almost all homosexuals in this country are well aware that the christian church and the bible says that homosexuality is a sin. In fact, there is a thread about it just about every few weeks just here on GLP alone. I cringe when I see everyone one of them.

I don't cringe becasue it's not the truth, it is the truth. It is a sin, and you'll never hear me say otherwise. I cringe becasue they already know that and it only makes them feel more alienated by God and pushes them away farther, the majority of them. I know this to be a fact, not speculation...fact.

I know the intentions are good, I get that, and I understand it, and it's not my intentions to hurt my brothers and sisters here, but rather try to show them that maybe this isn't effective, that maybe there is a better way.

Listen, I'm a fat lady. I sure as heck know it. I don't need someone to walk up to me and tell me that I'm fat. I"m also a smoker, and I'm well aware that my cigarette smoke sinks and is unhealthy. I already know that too. If a group of people were to continue to point out my flaws, over and over again, even tho I already am aware of it, I would consider it ignorant and hostile and I would move as far away from those people as possible, as quickly as I could.

Now if someone were to tell me how much Jesus loves me, that He fashioned me with His own hands, and that He understands my pain and my inner most thoughts and feelings, and that He wants me to get to know Him on a personal level because He really cares about me, well maybe I'd listen to that.

Jesus will meet a person wherever they are in life. A person does not have to be perfect to come to Him and be saved. I put up a thread yesterday that demonstrates that and shows His love for all people and that He saves the most broken of all of us. It is after that the Holy Spirit will work on a person's heart to make changes as the Lord sees fit, each according to his own progress, circumstances and ability. This is the truth.

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Ok. That does make sense. Sort of a fly honey/vinegar analogy. So are you saying then that when Jesus told us how the harvest was plentiful and many workers were needed, that He was talking about telling people of His love for them and not telling people the truth about sin? You're saying that the Holy Spirit will eventually convict them of the sin in their lives? That makes sense too. However...again, how do you know that this thread is not doing just that? How do you know God is not using the OP to get this message out to those who need to hear it?

You spoke of many threads who are against homosexuality. I believe the threads you're referring to are more like "gay bashing" threads. I've seen them too and I too cringe when I read some of their inflammatory titles. But I would submit to you that this thread has more of a tone of love and Christian instruction to it than does a thread that is entitled, and I quote, "God hates fags." I'm sure you can see a stark contrast between the two.

All I'm saying is maybe we ought to not be so quick as to misjudge threads such as this one that seeks to only help in love. Tough love? Possibly, but still obviously posted in loving Christian correction.
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


A person can be lovingly wrong........lol. For a brother or sister to say that a homosexual can't be a christian is WRONG. A statement like this shuts the door in the face of all homosexuals.

Many homosexuals have come to Jesus and built a relationship with Him. What Jesus reveals to them about their sin is between that person and Jesus.

Jesus saved me while I was living in sin, and over many years helped me to change where change was needed. Many a good meaning christian would have pointed the finger at me and said "she's not saved" when in fact only the Lord knew the truth about my heart. In fact, I'm still changing! We all are! That's the whole point, being a christian is a life long process, or life long relationship with Jesus.

It's not a moment in time, it's a life long commitment and relationship with Him that grows, evolves and matures over a lifetime.

I did things years ago that I can't imagine doing today. I probably do things today that I won't be doing or saying years from now. It's a process, a marriage. Not a membership or ticket, or one moment in time.

It's about getting to know Him, growing in love with Him, learning how to be more like Him because you want to. It's about reaching higher, expanding your heart becasue when you get right down to it, all sin is a matter of the heart.

I feel like I'm just rambling now and not getting through to anyone, so I'll just stop. Have a blessed day:)

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Ok. This is the only problem I have with this post. Because the Bible itself gives a list of the types of behaviors that can not be saved if the person doesn't repent or TURN AWAY from the sin. And whether we like it or not, this IS one of them! You can be loving all you want when pointing this out, as the OP of this thread has done and that's as we should be to our brothers and sisters in Christ. But to openly accept such sin in one who is claiming to be a Christian and saved is not only doing them a GREAT disservice, but it is setting a very bad example for anyone who is not saved and looking to get saved! It lowers the standards of salvation and creates a false doctrine within the church!

Jesus Himself called on his followers to gently but firmly rebuke the sins of each other within the church, and if that doesn't cause the Christian who is sinning to repent, He then tells us to go to that person with 2 or more others, (I don't quite recall how many) and each of them is to rebuke the sin and encourage the believer to repent from it. But if all else fails, He COMMANDS us to put that person from us! It is the doctrine of excommunication and it is both taught, and supported by the Bible and Jesus Christ Himself!

I'm sorry, but you and I are going to have to agree to disagree. Some things can be reached through compromise, but the Bible gives a list of what God consideres to be grave sins, and homosexuality is one that leaves little wiggle room or doubt!
Real truth is self evident...
Lady Wolf

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03/03/2013 04:22 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Ok, one last post then I'm done:)

I'll share with you guys something that I've learned over the years. Sin is all about the heart.......not a list of rules.

Let me explain.

I am by no means a perfect person, in fact.....if I were to examine my life, my thoughts, my actions, my words and compared them to Jesus Christ......I'm a vile and disgusting evil asshole.

Let's keep it real, ok? No candy coating, just the real deal.

I sin on a daily basis. Yea, choice words come out of my mouth almost daily.......and be sure I think them daily even if I don't say it.

Sure......a good looking man walks by, or on the tv and I sure do think "Well, check him out!"

I'm a smoker........I puff away all day long. I'm known to have a glass or two of wine and get pretty tipsy.

I get into arguments with all of my family, and sometimes I really get pissed off!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes I even hold a grudge for a day or two....cause I want to.

I've been known to take the larger piece of cake for myself, on occasion.

I speed when I'm driving, don't always wear my seatbelt, and have done much worse then that.

Ok, so we have established that I"m no saint here, but even still, I do have a close relationship with Jesus. Now, you know when I've had the boom lowered on my head? When I've been really out of line and He corrected me severely?

I'll tell you when........when I hurt someone, my brother or my sister. When I hurt them while being self-righteous. I felt justified, and as far as doctrine goe, I was 100% right. But, I hurt them, and as far as Jesus was concerned I was 100% wrong. So wrong in fact that He wouldn't even let me pray until I humbled myself before those people and apologized and made it right.

I'll tell you guys, the biggest sin of all is hurting others in the name of God. Using Him as a weapon against others is a terrible thing. Pushing people away from Him is incredibly hurtful because when you remove all the candy coating, we are all evil, vile assholes ourselves. One no better then the other when we compare ourselves to Jesus Christ.

It is by His grace, by His sacrifice, by His mercy, by His forgiveness that ANY of us make it to heaven because each and every one of us deserves to go straight to hell.

When we argue about doctrines, fight about verses and meanings, when we point out eachother's sins, when we put obstacles in the paths of the unbelievers.......we are doing the same thing the pharisees did, either knowingly or unknowingly.

I'm not calling anyone here a pharisee, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that we should all examine our own hearts and be careful of our words so that we don't become a pharisee in our hearts because we are all assholes and none of us should ever forget that.

My cousin told me what happened in her church years ago. Durring the service a homeless man walked in and sat down in one of the rows of benches and was listening to the sermon. He obviously had not bathed in a long time and yes he smelled bad. They actually asked him to leave. Yes, that really happened. He was escorted out.

I have no doubt that the wretched stench from the people who asked him to leave reached the nostrils of God in a profound way........even tho they were bathed, pretty, well dressed, and perfumed. What an abomination.

Ok........I'm now rambling on again. Now all that I've said.....if I have hurt anyone here, offended anyone here, or made anyone feel bad......please accept my apology. I am in no way trying to put anyone down or hurt anyone, just trying to show maybe another way of thinking about things. God bless everyone.......we are all assholes. :):)

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


You have not hurt me at all. In fact, I welcome a good healthy debate, so long as it is for a good reason and is kept civil which I feel our conversations have. You have a very loving and honest spirit. A rare gem these days. You are correct in that "For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" We all have our own paths to walk and it is all in His timing. If I have been in disagreement with anything you have said, it is only because I believe that certain things which can be soul destroying should never be compromised on. That is all and it IS a Biblical teaching as I already pointed out in my previous response to you.

But we have both said our pieces and we will either learn and grow from our differences of opinion or we will just be on our merry way and take with us anything we have gleaned from this discussion. peace
Real truth is self evident...
onelastcloud

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03/03/2013 06:27 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
ladywolf, where does the bible give a list where some sins or tasks are more important then other sins and tasks ?

if you read the discussion before, and it is a argument never really replied to here, i explained that in torah all rules are of equal worth, in the gospel you have another set of rules based on blessing and curse, what has been set in front of you, one set of relative rules based on love.

so you can not say jesus said us that the rules of torah are spiritual for some things and not for others,when one chooses the blessing side...the torah condems and set free, so sin is another thing...based on the law, love god (he is all), he does not judge, he only judges indirect (through our choice, ignorance or growth, which is repenting , which is reflecting, which is growth in the spirit of one, which is understanding, which is love)

--

sexual misbehaviour or immorality is not homosexuality.


if the gospels talks about marriage it does not say anything about other forms of love maybe in that place, still it always talks about all forms of love.

the gospels only know one sin, the sin agisnt the spirit (ignorance) still ignorance is part of all sins, if something hurts another and not restrained nor the way improved.
onelastcloud

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
there is the perception that a stigma, a label , of sinner can not hurt, but stigmatising, through it being a judgement, is a theft of happiness when one receives it.

the punishment for theft is...

perception build this world, and the torah asks us to see how sinfull we all are, even in our perceptions...

still it frees us, it is a black white law,
the grey of everyday sin is not there, but in the message to love god as one, meaning you grow towards it or not, a relative.
and this relative is the only absolute.

homosexuality, a man with a man is not based on ignorance,
rape and other sexual cravings of hurted people, are base don ignorance of the other person.
Fooled

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03/03/2013 07:01 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
you r sweet christians, but being gay is not a sin through christ eyes, only saying this is a very grave abuse of christ message. i wouldnt say a grave sin, because its clear your hearts want to understand, but a grave misunderstanding and manipulation of the holy message, yes.

btw, i am gay. i ws born into an evangelical family, and for many many years the only thing i did is pray to god to set me free of it, many christians came to tell me i would go to hell.
 Quoting: anom 35335472


Being gay is a sin as outlined by Enoch, and many other scriptures.

vitium sodomiticum. Being gay is an abomination.
 Quoting: ParadigmShift


YOU'RE AN ABOMINATION. YOU HAVE HATE IN YOUR HEART. YOU LET SATAN IN AND HE HAS TAKEN OVER YOUR MIND AND FILLED YOU WITH FEAR AND HATE FOR THAT WHICH YOU ARE TOO IGNORANT TO UNDERSTAND.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13636777


Excuse me, but how is pointing out what the Bible says concerning sin hateful?
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


I am sorry to say this Anonymous13636777 but this is an argument you can never ever win.

People use these tactics nowadays. They use religion which their lives already contradict, as means to attack others in a manner of self-righteousness.

You are speaking like a robot. You are using the law of averages to defend yourself. Because the type of thing you say is towards people who have contempt and hate. This means you are also projecting. This is how YOU feel, not us.

I have nothing to fear of homosexuals, nor need to hate. But what IS, is what IS.

So God telling us that sodomy is wrong, and us agreeing with this, is a way of Satan taking over our minds?

Perhaps, you should apply what you have said to yourself. Satanic lust has taken over the minds of men, and not only the mind but the heart also. This is why many people are fooled to believe that what they are experiencing is love. In this current era in which we live, neither man, nor woman, nor heterosexual or homosexual are experiencing love, but a deception of it. So few are the people that know what real love is you would be surprised how on earth people are getting married. But tell any couple this and they will spit in your face. They think they are really in love, but they don't know what real love is to make a comparison.

Man is ignorant in so many aspects of life. Homosexuality is ignorance, because it ignores the foundation of life. But do not get me wrong, heterosexuals are also ignorant in their acts.

The entire humanity has become deformed. We've let the ego into our lives so much, that now we even rationalize like demons. We make philosophy like demons.

Last Edited by Luke CosmicWalker on 03/03/2013 07:08 AM
You are all still asleep. Being informed of the political, global deceit, lies and propaganda and knowing who really runs the world is NOT being awake. You are all still ASLEEP.
onelastcloud

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03/03/2013 07:53 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
if you build your judgements on assumptions, u condemn yourself, that is the logic behind it, this is ignorance of yourself in the other, and it is ignorance of gods care.

i am still asking where sodomy is identical to homosexuality, where the gospel takes some parts of the torah and others not...

my questions are not of the devil, but of care, and evverythign that talks for care, talks for go, it doesnt matter where he is in life and what he did before. if he talks in his name " i am one, search me" he does not talk for the devil.

how many more of these mails before some people do the effort to answer to their assumptions of devils and sinners.


ignorance of life, is ignoring life in the other.
Fooled

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
What makes you think I am assuming. There you did it again, you used the law of averages to makes a statement, and it failed.

I do not speak out of belief. I do not speak out of assumption. I KNOW. The wise understand these statements. The wise understand how it is possible to Know things beyond this world. If you limit yourself to ordinary means, your knowledge will be limited. Since this is all sacred, I leave it for the wise to understand.

97% of the population have ruined themselves with beliefs. They know nothing. No scientist, nor devout knows. They only believe. What a waste of life...

Last Edited by Luke CosmicWalker on 03/03/2013 08:10 AM
You are all still asleep. Being informed of the political, global deceit, lies and propaganda and knowing who really runs the world is NOT being awake. You are all still ASLEEP.
onelastcloud

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03/03/2013 08:14 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
yes, i know too, the law of god is relative for a human person. the law judges all, condemns all of theft and idolotry, based on th division of god, so there is a witness to your sin, and god not existing.

or the law sets free, one witness for himself, as the son was witness for the father so the father could be witness for the son, as one, and would judge no one.

i know you dont understand me, but you can recognise one who tells of care, and still tries people not to give up on care.

relativism is actually a good thing, or you would kill all earth because of sins and then say, when does the antichrist come.
(an absolute example)
Fooled

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03/03/2013 08:22 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
There will come a time my friend...

A time so distant...

And it will be out of time...

When it all comes to a close, it will open...

Know you shall what I mean, but the bliss will make neither of us care who was right or who was wrong soo long ago...

For whether heterosexual or homosexual, all will return to the starting point...

And then they shall see, both lived their lives so wrongly...

But it will matter not, for the dream will have ended and life will have begun...

Last Edited by Luke CosmicWalker on 03/03/2013 08:24 AM
You are all still asleep. Being informed of the political, global deceit, lies and propaganda and knowing who really runs the world is NOT being awake. You are all still ASLEEP.
Fooled

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
.

Last Edited by Luke CosmicWalker on 03/03/2013 08:22 AM
You are all still asleep. Being informed of the political, global deceit, lies and propaganda and knowing who really runs the world is NOT being awake. You are all still ASLEEP.
onelastcloud

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
now you say something of value, now there is something of care in your words :)

if 97 procent of the world thinks wrong, it means that god ordained it, wouldnt it also mean he will have mercy ?

god doe snot give stones, when he is asked bread,
but he certainly gives impatience...

we all think to know, this is why jesus said: if one talks for me, i am one. this is the absolute that shapes the relative,
and the relative has many faces of good and wrong,
still one has to avoid wrong. and this sentence is logic, not one of miracles and figures, it doesnt have the name jesus, it has the name, i am one.

so what is wrong ? the opposite direction, not one moment, directon of caring.
Fooled

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03/03/2013 08:34 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Unfortunately God did not ordain it. Nevertheless, due to free will and other forces, the 97% are wrong.
You are all still asleep. Being informed of the political, global deceit, lies and propaganda and knowing who really runs the world is NOT being awake. You are all still ASLEEP.
onelastcloud

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03/03/2013 08:37 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
then you have a lazy god. if he can not decide what happens in his belly, he sure will not decide what happens in his mind.
Fooled

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03/03/2013 08:57 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
My God and your God is the same.

It is humanity that is lazy. God give free will and men be lazy with it. So lazy in fact, that only 3% of the class will be graduating from life.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" ~ Proverb

Contrary to popular belief, we did not come to this world, to fulfill our desires, to make a family, a home, a business, be socially popular, be entertained, demand our wishes to be met by God and not believe in Him if not fulfilled.

There is another purpose to our existence.

Last Edited by Luke CosmicWalker on 03/03/2013 08:59 AM
You are all still asleep. Being informed of the political, global deceit, lies and propaganda and knowing who really runs the world is NOT being awake. You are all still ASLEEP.
onelastcloud

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03/03/2013 09:03 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
yes ofcourse there is another purpose, for his glory means, for his reason, it is the belly that allows the mind to be,
god needs us to have the reference of will, the arc with the two angels, this life is the carrier of logic, and when logic sees the only possibility it allows god to be himself, and it gives god a choice, indirect, because who who lives in heaven can not leave it.

but that only 3 % would be saved, i dont know which bible you read, or which logic you attend, but i am sure there is a difference between those that know before and those that know after. the pharisee maybe did not come into the kingdom, but i didnt hear jesus say the garden was closed for pharisees that wanted to wash themselves white as to one day yes enter the kingdom.

people see so much evil that in the end nobody would be saved,
i dont agree with this, this world is not of satan but of god, and satan is just the deceiver, and has his own world, which is included as pit in the other.
Fooled

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
It is a sad fact but true :-(

If this world was a world of God, you would not see the world wars occurring. You would not see the children in Gaza suffering. You would not see people dying in Syria. You would not see the brutality in the United States. You wouldn't see so many confusion in people's minds regarding religion.

Unfortunately, this world is currently overrun by evil. It doesn't take a lot to figure that out.

People have this in their psychology though, like this can't be happening to this many people.

Like a class at school that can't believe that all the students will be failing, yet they fsil. Or a group of protesters who think that so many people can't be arrested, yet they are.

"strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it" ~Matthew 7:14

It turns out when They say few, they really mean it. It's so few... :-(

On the close, shall it become a world of God...

Last Edited by Luke CosmicWalker on 03/03/2013 09:17 AM
You are all still asleep. Being informed of the political, global deceit, lies and propaganda and knowing who really runs the world is NOT being awake. You are all still ASLEEP.
onelastcloud

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03/03/2013 09:18 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
yes, but what you dont seem to understand is that a lost sheep can become the small entrance, we dont stay the same person, we change ito the entrance, this is why the old is judges , and the new freed, and the only one who enters the kingdom is god, or is your will different from him in heaven you think ?

this is what marriage means...the man that controls his wife, so the child can integrate the past (old sheep) woman, into the goal (man) and becomes it in white.

still if this world is in god, then god ordaines it, and god does not see evil but choice in himself.

god is not subject to a an abstract as satan, an angel is a power without consciesness. for children it has a figure like appaerence, but in its being it is without knowing, just a tool of god.

god will not allow evil, an then doom his own consiousness in him, he will save it by evolving it, or when it doesnt want to come back, let it be none.
onelastcloud

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03/03/2013 09:19 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
it means that the way is always relative. so there is no so much evil as you think in mens souls, many are children defending their right to exist, nothing else.

if one can not protect himself first, he can protect another.
this is how most people react.
Anonymous Coward
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03/03/2013 09:19 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Preaching Against=Judge Others
The entire Subject is moot.
onelastcloud

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03/03/2013 09:21 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
i meant if one can not protect himself, he can NOT protect very well others. and this inapacity gives evil a face.

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