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Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others

 
Anonymous Coward
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03/03/2013 09:26 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
what is it with you people ?

we are supposed to observer and conclude abc and xyz about what is going on and what people are doing for goodness sake.
and with that, guide our children in matters?

no wonder society is collapsing.

don't confuse judgement with decernment.

Jesus doesn't want us throwing stones---it is what it is, ---any amount of whinning about " don't judge me" will not change truth.

you people are extremely insulting to Jesus.

you think he dosn't know what your about eh---fools.


---
onelastcloud

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03/03/2013 09:29 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
ofcourse judgements does not mean analysing something,
we talked about this earlier in the tread, not sure you read it,

but thinking that god is revengefull certainly is.

its natural that if you think one is a sinner,
you will put him below, you can defend this how much you like,
as long one can not see the difference between incapacity and sin and on the other hand choice, one will judge even when he thinks he is analysing.
Anonymous Coward
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03/03/2013 09:57 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
I had a dream where myself and my partner had decided we needed to ask Jesus to turn us straight. We were both really committed to doing this. So we approached Jesus and asked him to change us. Jesus became offended and walked away. We were shocked because we thought/expected Jesus to be pleased and say "well done, I will change you". We were both wondering why this would offend Him. A few seconds later Jesus came back to us and said "I am your brother, I never judged you".

And that was the big penny drop moment for me.
Its religion that says "God hates gays" not Christians.
God isnt even a god of hate. He loves us all. We are all his creation. Jesus loves us all too! And he never judges us.

ALL those that believe in Jesus Christ and ALL those that confess his name and ALL those that confess that he is their saviour will be saved!
There are so many people out there that are very quick to quote scripture on homosexuality but they ALWAYS and intentionally omit the fact that if you confess Jesus as your saviour then you'll be saved. The plan of salvation is for whosoever, WHOSOEVER believeth in the Lord.

There are many religious people out there that arent going to make it into heaven. They lift themselves up above everyone else. They turn their backs on gay people instead of trying help them. Religious people fail to understand that being a Christian is about relationship and not religion.
Many will say on judgement day "Lord, Lord did I not prophecy in your name....etc.", to which the Lord will say "depart from me, I never knew you".

Because of the opression of gays many do end up in sexual immorality as they are not free to live in a normal relationship openly. They are led to believe that gay venues, clubs and parties are all they have. They are fed all these false and demonic ideas on what it is to be gay and how they are free to live as they feel. And religion just enforces this demonic decption.

And lastly, the only "illness of the mind" is denying Jesus is Saviour.


Praise and glory to God!
Amen
hf
onelastcloud

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03/03/2013 11:21 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
i love your story.

please ask jesus the meaning of this sentence:

"I am the way, the life and the truth" anyone who comes to me...

read it again and again, until you understand it, ask jesus to help you.

its an advise you dont need to take in,
but reading your mail i know you will plead for all the world,
even those billions that will never know jesus.
MuzzleBreak

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03/03/2013 08:10 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
God forgives those who are repentant.

When Lust is the basis of intent/desire/action, that is sin.

Forcing the State or the Church to approve of unions that many, if not most, find abominable is the evil intent of a particular group that hates Christ. Their control of the Media makes it all the easier.
In his book, "Between Two Ages," Brzezinski wrote: "The technetronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values."

MuzzleBreak
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03/03/2013 08:11 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
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Rising Son (OP)
Spirit Of The Wolf, Soul Of The Lion

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03/03/2013 10:31 PM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Ok, one last post then I'm done:)

I'll share with you guys something that I've learned over the years. Sin is all about the heart.......not a list of rules.

Let me explain.

I am by no means a perfect person, in fact.....if I were to examine my life, my thoughts, my actions, my words and compared them to Jesus Christ......I'm a vile and disgusting evil asshole.

Let's keep it real, ok? No candy coating, just the real deal.

I sin on a daily basis. Yea, choice words come out of my mouth almost daily.......and be sure I think them daily even if I don't say it.

Sure......a good looking man walks by, or on the tv and I sure do think "Well, check him out!"

I'm a smoker........I puff away all day long. I'm known to have a glass or two of wine and get pretty tipsy.

I get into arguments with all of my family, and sometimes I really get pissed off!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes I even hold a grudge for a day or two....cause I want to.

I've been known to take the larger piece of cake for myself, on occasion.

I speed when I'm driving, don't always wear my seatbelt, and have done much worse then that.

Ok, so we have established that I"m no saint here, but even still, I do have a close relationship with Jesus. Now, you know when I've had the boom lowered on my head? When I've been really out of line and He corrected me severely?

I'll tell you when........when I hurt someone, my brother or my sister. When I hurt them while being self-righteous. I felt justified, and as far as doctrine goe, I was 100% right. But, I hurt them, and as far as Jesus was concerned I was 100% wrong. So wrong in fact that He wouldn't even let me pray until I humbled myself before those people and apologized and made it right.

I'll tell you guys, the biggest sin of all is hurting others in the name of God. Using Him as a weapon against others is a terrible thing. Pushing people away from Him is incredibly hurtful because when you remove all the candy coating, we are all evil, vile assholes ourselves. One no better then the other when we compare ourselves to Jesus Christ.

It is by His grace, by His sacrifice, by His mercy, by His forgiveness that ANY of us make it to heaven because each and every one of us deserves to go straight to hell.

When we argue about doctrines, fight about verses and meanings, when we point out eachother's sins, when we put obstacles in the paths of the unbelievers.......we are doing the same thing the pharisees did, either knowingly or unknowingly.

I'm not calling anyone here a pharisee, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that we should all examine our own hearts and be careful of our words so that we don't become a pharisee in our hearts because we are all assholes and none of us should ever forget that.

My cousin told me what happened in her church years ago. Durring the service a homeless man walked in and sat down in one of the rows of benches and was listening to the sermon. He obviously had not bathed in a long time and yes he smelled bad. They actually asked him to leave. Yes, that really happened. He was escorted out.

I have no doubt that the wretched stench from the people who asked him to leave reached the nostrils of God in a profound way........even tho they were bathed, pretty, well dressed, and perfumed. What an abomination.

Ok........I'm now rambling on again. Now all that I've said.....if I have hurt anyone here, offended anyone here, or made anyone feel bad......please accept my apology. I am in no way trying to put anyone down or hurt anyone, just trying to show maybe another way of thinking about things. God bless everyone.......we are all assholes. :):)

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Lisa, thank you for your insight and wisdom - you have added a less obtuse mood to the thread, and I understand what and why you have said the things you have. This is really a tough spot that Christians find themselves in today, because one side is telling them that Jesus would not want them to judge another but to accept everyone that comes to Christ, while the other side is telling them that Jesus declared homosexuality a sin as defined in the Old Testament, and that is equally wrong to accept that sin as okay. I think the one thing that sets this issue apart from other sins that could be judged is the individuals' unwillingness to stop sinning and their apparent pride in that particular sin. Further, they have begun to justify their actions by twisting the scriptures to fit their lifestyle, and that is wrong. The reason I said that a homosexual cannot be a true Christian is because they are unrepentant for their sin. I would say the same thing about a murderer or thief who was unrepentant for their particular sins, but felt justified in calling themselves Christians. It all comes down to the decision to turn away from sin - not that we will never sin again because we will, but to TRY and avoid sin whenever possible.
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

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Lady Wolf

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03/04/2013 01:54 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
ladywolf, where does the bible give a list where some sins or tasks are more important then other sins and tasks ?

if you read the discussion before, and it is a argument never really replied to here, i explained that in torah all rules are of equal worth, in the gospel you have another set of rules based on blessing and curse, what has been set in front of you, one set of relative rules based on love.

so you can not say jesus said us that the rules of torah are spiritual for some things and not for others,when one chooses the blessing side...the torah condems and set free, so sin is another thing...based on the law, love god (he is all), he does not judge, he only judges indirect (through our choice, ignorance or growth, which is repenting , which is reflecting, which is growth in the spirit of one, which is understanding, which is love)

--

sexual misbehaviour or immorality is not homosexuality.


if the gospels talks about marriage it does not say anything about other forms of love maybe in that place, still it always talks about all forms of love.

the gospels only know one sin, the sin agisnt the spirit (ignorance) still ignorance is part of all sins, if something hurts another and not restrained nor the way improved.
 Quoting: onelastcloud


Hello Onelastcloud:)

Before I answer your question, I just want to tell you how much I've enjoyed your posts on this thread. If I failed to tell you that before, I do apologize. I think the last time I addressed one of your posts here, it was very late and I was in a hurry to get to bed with no time for niceties;)

In answer to your first question, the passage I'm referring to is found here:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
New International Version (NIV)
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Footnotes:

1 Corinthians 6:9 The words men who have sex with men translate two Greek words that refer to the passive and active participants in homosexual acts.
[link to www.biblegateway.com]

I am afraid I'm not too familiar with the Torah. I know OF it but I do not KNOW it. So I can not comment on what you have said concerning it.

In your last paragraph, you mentioned "sin against the spirit." Are you referring to the "unforgivable sin" that Jesus talked about? My understanding of this sin, is that it means one who "blasphemes" the Holy Spirit. That is just my take on it, but you may have a different understanding.

I also need for you to know that I'm having a difficult time understanding some of what you're saying in your posts. It is not your fault, it is just the language barrier between us that makes it hard for me to understand some of what you write. That being said, you do write very well for someone who does not appear to be native to the English language!:)

Before I close this post to you, let me say that I'm not even going to try and pretend to understand the personal struggle you have written about in this thread. Your walk has been a very difficult one and sounds as if it continues to be a challenge in your life. It is my fervent hope and prayer that God will see fit to lead you out of this life of bondage to a sin that you are helpless against without Him. Keep asking God to remove this sin from your life and the desire. It could be that just as Saul/Paul asked God to remove an ailment that he greatly suffered from (we don't know what it was as the Bible doesn't tell us) God chose to answer "no" to this prayer. Sometimes He tells us "no", sometimes He tells us "not now, but in my own timing" and sometimes He tells us "yes." The challenge for us as humans and Christians is to trust God that He knows what is best for us, and that we CAN and SHOULD lean on Him during our weakest moments.

Also remember this, He tells us that He WILL ALWAYS provide a way out of temptation when it is at its strongest, for He promises us that we will NEVER be tempted beyond what we can bare up under. But sometimes, the way out of that temptation may be something very subtle that happens and if we're not paying attention and trusting in His help, we might just miss it.

Here is an experiment you can try. I have done it and I am living proof that it DOES work! The next time you are tempted to sin, no matter what the sin is, and the temptation is so strong that you're tempted to give in to it even though you know it is wrong, say a quick and sincere prayer and ask God to help you out of that moment of temptation. Then really pay attention to what happens after that. Put the Bible and God to the test. He really wants us to do this! He even tells us to "Test me in these things and see what I will do. (paraphrased from memory) Do you remember the story of Elija or was it Elisha? I can't quite remember and the piece of fleece that he used in order to fully understand God's will about an important decision that he had to make? He tested God's will over and over again using that single piece of fleece as a sign that he was properly discerning what God wanted him to do. We can and SHOULD do this too!

Also remember this, every time we say NO to sin, we become even stronger to say NO to it the next time. Think of it this way. Each NO to sin is like a single strand of a very thick rope. The strand by itself, while strong, is not strong enough to get the job done. But each time you say NO to sin, add another strand to that rope. As the rope grows stronger so do we. BUT each NO BEGINS WITH PRAYER! This is oh so important!! Think of your battle as a series of many choices. When temptation comes, you can give into that temptation, or you can CHOOSE instead to pray about it and ask for God's help and His strength to overcome it. Each time you do this, you will be adding strands and strengthening that rope until it becomes unbreakable. A good visual aid for this is to get a ball of twine or string and each time you say a prayer for protection against temptation to sin, cut off a few inches of that string and wind each new piece you cut off around the others. Watch your rope grow and strengthen as you grow in God's strength. It just might help:)

I hope this will help you in your own personal struggle as it has helped me countless times in my own Christian walk. God bless!:)
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Lady Wolf

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03/04/2013 02:08 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Preaching Against=Judge Others
The entire Subject is moot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1518033


I respectfully disagree. Would you say the same about one who disagrees with murder? Why or why not?

To disagree with homosexuality is to proclaim how it does or does not measure up against God's Word. God Himself will judge the sinner, until then, WE are admonished to judge the sin through the measuring rod of righteousness, which is His word and the proper divinely discernment of it.

Last Edited by Lady Wolf on 03/04/2013 02:33 AM
Real truth is self evident...
Lady Wolf

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03/04/2013 02:15 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
I had a dream where myself and my partner had decided we needed to ask Jesus to turn us straight. We were both really committed to doing this. So we approached Jesus and asked him to change us. Jesus became offended and walked away. We were shocked because we thought/expected Jesus to be pleased and say "well done, I will change you". We were both wondering why this would offend Him. A few seconds later Jesus came back to us and said "I am your brother, I never judged you".

And that was the big penny drop moment for me.
Its religion that says "God hates gays" not Christians.
God isnt even a god of hate. He loves us all. We are all his creation. Jesus loves us all too! And he never judges us.

ALL those that believe in Jesus Christ and ALL those that confess his name and ALL those that confess that he is their saviour will be saved!
There are so many people out there that are very quick to quote scripture on homosexuality but they ALWAYS and intentionally omit the fact that if you confess Jesus as your saviour then you'll be saved. The plan of salvation is for whosoever, WHOSOEVER believeth in the Lord.

There are many religious people out there that arent going to make it into heaven. They lift themselves up above everyone else. They turn their backs on gay people instead of trying help them. Religious people fail to understand that being a Christian is about relationship and not religion.
Many will say on judgement day "Lord, Lord did I not prophecy in your name....etc.", to which the Lord will say "depart from me, I never knew you".

Because of the opression of gays many do end up in sexual immorality as they are not free to live in a normal relationship openly. They are led to believe that gay venues, clubs and parties are all they have. They are fed all these false and demonic ideas on what it is to be gay and how they are free to live as they feel. And religion just enforces this demonic decption.

And lastly, the only "illness of the mind" is denying Jesus is Saviour.


Praise and glory to God!
Amen
hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35487279


Forgive me but your post makes you seem like a very double minded person. On the one hand you state that you had this vision? of Jesus accepting your sin even though you have decided not to repent or turn away from it and on the other hand you talk about religions judging homosexuals instead of helping them. I have to wonder here...what do you mean by "help." Because your post is a bit on the confusing side and seems to say that your mind is already made up and that you don't want help. Is this correct? Maybe I'm just misreading it?
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Lady Wolf

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03/04/2013 02:17 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
God forgives those who are repentant.

When Lust is the basis of intent/desire/action, that is sin.

Forcing the State or the Church to approve of unions that many, if not most, find abominable is the evil intent of a particular group that hates Christ. Their control of the Media makes it all the easier.
 Quoting: MuzzleBreak
'

This!! ^^ And this is discernment of a VERY evil and cunning agenda folks, this is NOT judgement!
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Lady Wolf

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03/04/2013 02:20 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5538756


I don't believe this. God loves you so much that He is going to let you CHOOSE where you want to be. Because those who don't want to be around the Holy righteousness of God, His angels and His people will believe they are actually in Hell when they're in fact in HEAVEN! Darkness has no place with the light. So He allows you to go to the place that YOU choose to be! As the ole saying goes...misery loves company;)
Real truth is self evident...
Lady Wolf

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03/04/2013 02:28 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Ok, one last post then I'm done:)

I'll share with you guys something that I've learned over the years. Sin is all about the heart.......not a list of rules.

Let me explain.

I am by no means a perfect person, in fact.....if I were to examine my life, my thoughts, my actions, my words and compared them to Jesus Christ......I'm a vile and disgusting evil asshole.

Let's keep it real, ok? No candy coating, just the real deal.

I sin on a daily basis. Yea, choice words come out of my mouth almost daily.......and be sure I think them daily even if I don't say it.

Sure......a good looking man walks by, or on the tv and I sure do think "Well, check him out!"

I'm a smoker........I puff away all day long. I'm known to have a glass or two of wine and get pretty tipsy.

I get into arguments with all of my family, and sometimes I really get pissed off!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes I even hold a grudge for a day or two....cause I want to.

I've been known to take the larger piece of cake for myself, on occasion.

I speed when I'm driving, don't always wear my seatbelt, and have done much worse then that.

Ok, so we have established that I"m no saint here, but even still, I do have a close relationship with Jesus. Now, you know when I've had the boom lowered on my head? When I've been really out of line and He corrected me severely?

I'll tell you when........when I hurt someone, my brother or my sister. When I hurt them while being self-righteous. I felt justified, and as far as doctrine goe, I was 100% right. But, I hurt them, and as far as Jesus was concerned I was 100% wrong. So wrong in fact that He wouldn't even let me pray until I humbled myself before those people and apologized and made it right.

I'll tell you guys, the biggest sin of all is hurting others in the name of God. Using Him as a weapon against others is a terrible thing. Pushing people away from Him is incredibly hurtful because when you remove all the candy coating, we are all evil, vile assholes ourselves. One no better then the other when we compare ourselves to Jesus Christ.

It is by His grace, by His sacrifice, by His mercy, by His forgiveness that ANY of us make it to heaven because each and every one of us deserves to go straight to hell.

When we argue about doctrines, fight about verses and meanings, when we point out eachother's sins, when we put obstacles in the paths of the unbelievers.......we are doing the same thing the pharisees did, either knowingly or unknowingly.

I'm not calling anyone here a pharisee, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that we should all examine our own hearts and be careful of our words so that we don't become a pharisee in our hearts because we are all assholes and none of us should ever forget that.

My cousin told me what happened in her church years ago. Durring the service a homeless man walked in and sat down in one of the rows of benches and was listening to the sermon. He obviously had not bathed in a long time and yes he smelled bad. They actually asked him to leave. Yes, that really happened. He was escorted out.

I have no doubt that the wretched stench from the people who asked him to leave reached the nostrils of God in a profound way........even tho they were bathed, pretty, well dressed, and perfumed. What an abomination.

Ok........I'm now rambling on again. Now all that I've said.....if I have hurt anyone here, offended anyone here, or made anyone feel bad......please accept my apology. I am in no way trying to put anyone down or hurt anyone, just trying to show maybe another way of thinking about things. God bless everyone.......we are all assholes. :):)

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Lisa, thank you for your insight and wisdom - you have added a less obtuse mood to the thread, and I understand what and why you have said the things you have. This is really a tough spot that Christians find themselves in today, because one side is telling them that Jesus would not want them to judge another but to accept everyone that comes to Christ, while the other side is telling them that Jesus declared homosexuality a sin as defined in the Old Testament, and that is equally wrong to accept that sin as okay. I think the one thing that sets this issue apart from other sins that could be judged is the individuals' unwillingness to stop sinning and their apparent pride in that particular sin. Further, they have begun to justify their actions by twisting the scriptures to fit their lifestyle, and that is wrong. The reason I said that a homosexual cannot be a true Christian is because they are unrepentant for their sin. I would say the same thing about a murderer or thief who was unrepentant for their particular sins, but felt justified in calling themselves Christians. It all comes down to the decision to turn away from sin - not that we will never sin again because we will, but to TRY and avoid sin whenever possible.
 Quoting: Rising Son


This!! ^^ "Now therefor there remains no more sacrifice for sins" This passage is found in the gospels and the context is talking about how if Christ died for our sins and we are now saved through His sacrifice and the gift of grace what happens if we continue to sin? Christ paid the ultimate price for ALL sin. But if we do not ACCEPT = [TURN AWAY, REPENT FROM SIN] that sacrifice, than we are NOT saved. One person put it like this and this, I feel, is VERY profound.

When a Christian chooses to go on sinning after he or she has been saved, then it is as if they are crucifying Christ over and over again. Now that's a pretty stark image if you ask me!! And definitely a good visual deterrent to not sin or to at least be willing to recognize sin and repent TURN AWAY from it when we do!

Here's another analogy that might help. You murder someone and get sent away for life. You serve a few years but then a president comes along and pardons you. You can accept that pardon and be released from prison, or you can reject the pardon and stay in prison. If you accept it and are released, how will you then live your life? Will you keep murdering and expect to not be sent to prison for it?

Yes! Salvation IS a gift that we can choose to except or reject, BUT if we choose to except it, we are also choosing to leave our old life behind and begin a NEW life in HIM! That is part of the acceptance. Now here's the really awesome part! WHEN we except this gift, we are given the "comforter" or the Holy Spirit as a type of new parent to raise us up in the way we should go. For our old man (sinful nature) has passed away and a new man (Godly nature) has been born = born again:) God does not bring us into His fold and then leave us to our own devices. No! Instead, He has seen fit to provide us with a shepherd/keeper/new parent to guide our steps in Him. Just as a newly born baby would not stand a chance if left alone, a newly born Christian would not stand a chance if God did not send us the Holy Spirit as our helper and our comforter in our new life:) Because that is just how much HE LOVES US!! hf

Last Edited by Lady Wolf on 03/04/2013 02:45 AM
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Raymantheheretic

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03/04/2013 03:30 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Jesus Himself called on his followers to gently but firmly rebuke the sins of each other within the church, and if that doesn't cause the Christian who is sinning to repent, He then tells us to go to that person with 2 or more others, (I don't quite recall how many) and each of them is to rebuke the sin and encourage the believer to repent from it. But if all else fails, He COMMANDS us to put that person from us! It is the doctrine of excommunication and it is both taught, and supported by the Bible and Jesus Christ Himself!
 Quoting: Lady Wolf
I would like to know where and in which Gospel Jesus is quoted as saying this. Though understand beforehand I am well aware of Paul offering that exact same advice.
Judethz
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03/04/2013 03:55 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
what is it with you people ?

we are supposed to observer and conclude abc and xyz about what is going on and what people are doing for goodness sake.
and with that, guide our children in matters?

no wonder society is collapsing.

don't confuse judgement with decernment.

Jesus doesn't want us throwing stones---it is what it is, ---any amount of whinning about " don't judge me" will not change truth.

you people are extremely insulting to Jesus.

you think he dosn't know what your about eh---fools.


---
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1139115


9teen We are not to remain silent in the face of evil.

Eze 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Eze 3:19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 04:03 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Jesus? I though God gave the commands and will be the grand judge. What does Jesus have to so with anything.
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 04:09 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Jesus Himself called on his followers to gently but firmly rebuke the sins of each other within the church, and if that doesn't cause the Christian who is sinning to repent, He then tells us to go to that person with 2 or more others, (I don't quite recall how many) and each of them is to rebuke the sin and encourage the believer to repent from it. But if all else fails, He COMMANDS us to put that person from us! It is the doctrine of excommunication and it is both taught, and supported by the Bible and Jesus Christ Himself!
 Quoting: Lady Wolf
I would like to know where and in which Gospel Jesus is quoted as saying this. Though understand beforehand I am well aware of Paul offering that exact same advice.
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic


Matthew 18

King James Version (KJV)

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
CeeLite

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03/04/2013 05:28 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Preaching Against=Judge Others
The entire Subject is moot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1518033


I respectfully disagree. Would you say the same about one who disagrees with murder? Why or why not?

To disagree with homosexuality is to proclaim how it does or does not measure up against God's Word. God Himself will judge the sinner, until then, WE are admonished to judge the sin through the measuring rod of righteousness, which is His word and the proper divinely discernment of it.
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


"Thou shalt not kill" pretty simple.
I don't see "thou shalt not be gay"
People are inherantly bisexual. So there.
Azeratel Axo

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03/04/2013 05:38 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Preaching Against=Judge Others
The entire Subject is moot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1518033


I respectfully disagree. Would you say the same about one who disagrees with murder? Why or why not?

To disagree with homosexuality is to proclaim how it does or does not measure up against God's Word. God Himself will judge the sinner, until then, WE are admonished to judge the sin through the measuring rod of righteousness, which is His word and the proper divinely discernment of it.
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


"Thou shalt not kill" pretty simple.
I don't see "thou shalt not be gay"
People are inherantly bisexual. So there.

 Quoting: CeeLite


Yup
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 05:40 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Jesus didn't preach against homos dude. You create crap where none exists. You try manipulate people to bullcrap. You no idea what you do and pain you cause people. Shame on you. Special place for you I know. Sad people like you.
Azeratel Axo

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03/04/2013 05:42 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Preaching Against=Judge Others
The entire Subject is moot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1518033


I respectfully disagree. Would you say the same about one who disagrees with murder? Why or why not?

To disagree with homosexuality is to proclaim how it does or does not measure up against God's Word. God Himself will judge the sinner, until then, WE are admonished to judge the sin through the measuring rod of righteousness, which is His word and the proper divinely discernment of it.
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


"Thou shalt not kill" pretty simple.
I don't see "thou shalt not be gay"
People are inherantly bisexual. So there.

 Quoting: CeeLite


Yup
 Quoting: Azeratel Axo




Leviticus 18:22

"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

cruise

...awww, they should give poor Lilith a break once in a while!

lmao
Raymantheheretic

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03/04/2013 05:42 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Jesus Himself called on his followers to gently but firmly rebuke the sins of each other within the church, and if that doesn't cause the Christian who is sinning to repent, He then tells us to go to that person with 2 or more others, (I don't quite recall how many) and each of them is to rebuke the sin and encourage the believer to repent from it. But if all else fails, He COMMANDS us to put that person from us! It is the doctrine of excommunication and it is both taught, and supported by the Bible and Jesus Christ Himself!
 Quoting: Lady Wolf
I would like to know where and in which Gospel Jesus is quoted as saying this. Though understand beforehand I am well aware of Paul offering that exact same advice.
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic


Matthew 18

King James Version (KJV)

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31011281

Close but no cigar. Unless your homosexual brother has made a pass at you it wouldn't at all apply to what is going on in this thread.
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 05:42 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
In churchy circles you are called heretic, blasphemer.
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 05:57 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Odd the same cast of characters are always focused on the Gay subject.
I tend t think you have some special personal issues with your own sexuality or you wouldn't be so obsessed with it. I am gay but I don't need to start these types of threads and carry on and on about the subject.

I would think you might work on your own personal issues and stop preaching to others. Many of you seem to enjoy playing little gods and thumping the bible. I doubt you are perfect or without sin.
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 06:05 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
The Gay people I know that are Gay could care less what the religious people say. The are sick to death of the lame bible quoting twerps.

I know I am as well. No one knows if any religion is real. I think they are man made and a pile of total crap.

Man made up a big daddy in his own image and claims he is this God guy sitting up somewhere in the sky judging the crap people he created.He created it all well then he created all the sin and things they do. Maybe this so called lame God should quit making fucked up people and learn to create perfection if that is what he wants.

Simple logic tells you just how stupid religion really is. This dope makes people and loads them up with original sin. He sits in judgement of these imperfect humans and tells them they will burn in hell. They better fear him and love him out of fear or they will be so sorry.

What a fucking dick.
Lisa*Lisa

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03/04/2013 07:13 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Ok, one last post then I'm done:)

I'll share with you guys something that I've learned over the years. Sin is all about the heart.......not a list of rules.

Let me explain.

I am by no means a perfect person, in fact.....if I were to examine my life, my thoughts, my actions, my words and compared them to Jesus Christ......I'm a vile and disgusting evil asshole.

Let's keep it real, ok? No candy coating, just the real deal.

I sin on a daily basis. Yea, choice words come out of my mouth almost daily.......and be sure I think them daily even if I don't say it.

Sure......a good looking man walks by, or on the tv and I sure do think "Well, check him out!"

I'm a smoker........I puff away all day long. I'm known to have a glass or two of wine and get pretty tipsy.

I get into arguments with all of my family, and sometimes I really get pissed off!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes I even hold a grudge for a day or two....cause I want to.

I've been known to take the larger piece of cake for myself, on occasion.

I speed when I'm driving, don't always wear my seatbelt, and have done much worse then that.

Ok, so we have established that I"m no saint here, but even still, I do have a close relationship with Jesus. Now, you know when I've had the boom lowered on my head? When I've been really out of line and He corrected me severely?

I'll tell you when........when I hurt someone, my brother or my sister. When I hurt them while being self-righteous. I felt justified, and as far as doctrine goe, I was 100% right. But, I hurt them, and as far as Jesus was concerned I was 100% wrong. So wrong in fact that He wouldn't even let me pray until I humbled myself before those people and apologized and made it right.

I'll tell you guys, the biggest sin of all is hurting others in the name of God. Using Him as a weapon against others is a terrible thing. Pushing people away from Him is incredibly hurtful because when you remove all the candy coating, we are all evil, vile assholes ourselves. One no better then the other when we compare ourselves to Jesus Christ.

It is by His grace, by His sacrifice, by His mercy, by His forgiveness that ANY of us make it to heaven because each and every one of us deserves to go straight to hell.

When we argue about doctrines, fight about verses and meanings, when we point out eachother's sins, when we put obstacles in the paths of the unbelievers.......we are doing the same thing the pharisees did, either knowingly or unknowingly.

I'm not calling anyone here a pharisee, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that we should all examine our own hearts and be careful of our words so that we don't become a pharisee in our hearts because we are all assholes and none of us should ever forget that.

My cousin told me what happened in her church years ago. Durring the service a homeless man walked in and sat down in one of the rows of benches and was listening to the sermon. He obviously had not bathed in a long time and yes he smelled bad. They actually asked him to leave. Yes, that really happened. He was escorted out.

I have no doubt that the wretched stench from the people who asked him to leave reached the nostrils of God in a profound way........even tho they were bathed, pretty, well dressed, and perfumed. What an abomination.

Ok........I'm now rambling on again. Now all that I've said.....if I have hurt anyone here, offended anyone here, or made anyone feel bad......please accept my apology. I am in no way trying to put anyone down or hurt anyone, just trying to show maybe another way of thinking about things. God bless everyone.......we are all assholes. :):)

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Lisa, thank you for your insight and wisdom - you have added a less obtuse mood to the thread, and I understand what and why you have said the things you have. This is really a tough spot that Christians find themselves in today, because one side is telling them that Jesus would not want them to judge another but to accept everyone that comes to Christ, while the other side is telling them that Jesus declared homosexuality a sin as defined in the Old Testament, and that is equally wrong to accept that sin as okay. I think the one thing that sets this issue apart from other sins that could be judged is the individuals' unwillingness to stop sinning and their apparent pride in that particular sin. Further, they have begun to justify their actions by twisting the scriptures to fit their lifestyle, and that is wrong. The reason I said that a homosexual cannot be a true Christian is because they are unrepentant for their sin. I would say the same thing about a murderer or thief who was unrepentant for their particular sins, but felt justified in calling themselves Christians. It all comes down to the decision to turn away from sin - not that we will never sin again because we will, but to TRY and avoid sin whenever possible.
 Quoting: Rising Son


:) I"m asking you to take it to the next level and think about this a little deeper. What is sin? How do you define it? By a list of rules?

Jesus told us to go deeper, look deeper........because the intent of the heart determines if an action is sinful or not.

Example: An ugly child comes up to me and ask me if I think she is ugly? I say "Of course not, I think you're a beautiful girl". Ok, I lied........and the bible says that liars won't make it to heaven, and I'm a liar because I told her that I didn't think she was ugly even tho she was.

Another Example: I bake my neighbor a cake, take it over to her and present it as a gift because I really want to see if she is secretly screwing the mailman again.

Which example is a sin?
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onelastcloud

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03/04/2013 07:18 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
AC: yeah im gay too, also tired of it, but ont he other hand its important too,


how someone thinks is never to bad when there is a situation of peace,but when the mind is pushed to its limits all the evil comes out.
so it is important, not if we expect things to stay how they are, but on the other hand, life has 2 faces, and depending the face we see, we react or not react on it, if one is very happy he will not struggle and waste time for many words,
on the other hand, day and night are together always.

never bad to discuss theology. and those discussions always go hard, and always have very severe words in it,
it doesnt matter, as long there is doubt about ones intentions, there is no judgement anymore.

everyone does in life where he needs to be or talk.
some do sports and some talk religion to understand it, some do both jaja.
onelastcloud

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03/04/2013 07:45 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
ladywolf, where does the bible give a list where some sins or tasks are more important then other sins and tasks ?

if you read the discussion before, and it is a argument never really replied to here, i explained that in torah all rules are of equal worth, in the gospel you have another set of rules based on blessing and curse, what has been set in front of you, one set of relative rules based on love.

so you can not say jesus said us that the rules of torah are spiritual for some things and not for others,when one chooses the blessing side...the torah condems and set free, so sin is another thing...based on the law, love god (he is all), he does not judge, he only judges indirect (through our choice, ignorance or growth, which is repenting , which is reflecting, which is growth in the spirit of one, which is understanding, which is love)

--

sexual misbehaviour or immorality is not homosexuality.


if the gospels talks about marriage it does not say anything about other forms of love maybe in that place, still it always talks about all forms of love.

the gospels only know one sin, the sin agisnt the spirit (ignorance) still ignorance is part of all sins, if something hurts another and not restrained nor the way improved.
 Quoting: onelastcloud


Hello Onelastcloud:)

Before I answer your question, I just want to tell you how much I've enjoyed your posts on this thread. If I failed to tell you that before, I do apologize. I think the last time I addressed one of your posts here, it was very late and I was in a hurry to get to bed with no time for niceties;)

In answer to your first question, the passage I'm referring to is found here:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
New International Version (NIV)
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Footnotes:

1 Corinthians 6:9 The words men who have sex with men translate two Greek words that refer to the passive and active participants in homosexual acts.
[link to www.biblegateway.com]

I am afraid I'm not too familiar with the Torah. I know OF it but I do not KNOW it. So I can not comment on what you have said concerning it.

In your last paragraph, you mentioned "sin against the spirit." Are you referring to the "unforgivable sin" that Jesus talked about? My understanding of this sin, is that it means one who "blasphemes" the Holy Spirit. That is just my take on it, but you may have a different understanding.

I also need for you to know that I'm having a difficult time understanding some of what you're saying in your posts. It is not your fault, it is just the language barrier between us that makes it hard for me to understand some of what you write. That being said, you do write very well for someone who does not appear to be native to the English language!:)

Before I close this post to you, let me say that I'm not even going to try and pretend to understand the personal struggle you have written about in this thread. Your walk has been a very difficult one and sounds as if it continues to be a challenge in your life. It is my fervent hope and prayer that God will see fit to lead you out of this life of bondage to a sin that you are helpless against without Him. Keep asking God to remove this sin from your life and the desire. It could be that just as Saul/Paul asked God to remove an ailment that he greatly suffered from (we don't know what it was as the Bible doesn't tell us) God chose to answer "no" to this prayer. Sometimes He tells us "no", sometimes He tells us "not now, but in my own timing" and sometimes He tells us "yes." The challenge for us as humans and Christians is to trust God that He knows what is best for us, and that we CAN and SHOULD lean on Him during our weakest moments.

Also remember this, He tells us that He WILL ALWAYS provide a way out of temptation when it is at its strongest, for He promises us that we will NEVER be tempted beyond what we can bare up under. But sometimes, the way out of that temptation may be something very subtle that happens and if we're not paying attention and trusting in His help, we might just miss it.

Here is an experiment you can try. I have done it and I am living proof that it DOES work! The next time you are tempted to sin, no matter what the sin is, and the temptation is so strong that you're tempted to give in to it even though you know it is wrong, say a quick and sincere prayer and ask God to help you out of that moment of temptation. Then really pay attention to what happens after that. Put the Bible and God to the test. He really wants us to do this! He even tells us to "Test me in these things and see what I will do. (paraphrased from memory) Do you remember the story of Elija or was it Elisha? I can't quite remember and the piece of fleece that he used in order to fully understand God's will about an important decision that he had to make? He tested God's will over and over again using that single piece of fleece as a sign that he was properly discerning what God wanted him to do. We can and SHOULD do this too!

Also remember this, every time we say NO to sin, we become even stronger to say NO to it the next time. Think of it this way. Each NO to sin is like a single strand of a very thick rope. The strand by itself, while strong, is not strong enough to get the job done. But each time you say NO to sin, add another strand to that rope. As the rope grows stronger so do we. BUT each NO BEGINS WITH PRAYER! This is oh so important!! Think of your battle as a series of many choices. When temptation comes, you can give into that temptation, or you can CHOOSE instead to pray about it and ask for God's help and His strength to overcome it. Each time you do this, you will be adding strands and strengthening that rope until it becomes unbreakable. A good visual aid for this is to get a ball of twine or string and each time you say a prayer for protection against temptation to sin, cut off a few inches of that string and wind each new piece you cut off around the others. Watch your rope grow and strengthen as you grow in God's strength. It just might help:)

I hope this will help you in your own personal struggle as it has helped me countless times in my own Christian walk. God bless!:)
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


hey :)
thanks for ur mail... i dont take things personal, just ant you to know.

many people think that talking about something is because of a not done struggle, as much as it hurts me people condemn homosexuals, because i am one, what happened with my parents and church before does not affect me anymore, i love my parents, they teached me 20 years about god, and even when they run away now when i want to discuss their teachings, because they are afraid, i love them.

but this is what many christians do, they judge and run away, not many are fit to stay and discuss until the very end.

and this is more thene nough reason to restrain judgements,
if you can not defeat your devils, you are not fit to judge them, maybe avoid yes, we r all weak.

corinthians, it is a difficult subject and i know i will not make you cross to my side yet. maybe it will not happen in this life.

corintians says many things, thiefs, drunkerd,
they will not inherit the kingdom. why ? because nobody will. this is the trap of god set before you. blessing or curse, this is the torah law, or moses law, where the three mayor religions are build on.

the only one to enter the kingdom is god, the only one to enter the paradise is the one who worked through faith, not the one who didnt work with empty faith. if one goes to heaven one becomes one with the will of god, slafe becomes one in will with master, so the slafe dies, and only the master stays, this is how one enters the kingdom. not god without god, but becoming one with god through the burden of god. Satan and god gave jesus the same thing, a kingdom, only, jesus chose to first do his burden, his work through, faith.

the only sin in relation to this is the sin agaisnt the spirit, if life is relative in learning, and sinning, whatever form and theology behind it, is connected to this,
because learning is build on relfection, which is repenting,
then everone is a thief and nobody will enter.
the sin against the spirit is being in ignorance of the better truth tht awaits, and denying it not once, but until more times, this is symbolised in the bible in many stories.
the sin against the spirit is ignorance.

on the other hand you have the blessing of the torah, that gives not only 10 categories, misunderstood by christians as rules, but the 10 categories have another set of rules in it, whoever breaks the least of the commandments, is a sinner and in most cases deserves death. stillthe 10 commandments are also the basic rules of love, the goals, not the start position, and through this ae connected to a spiritual truth, in this form, the law becomes spiritual and all the minor rules from how to wash your body and how to eat , all those things explain in symbolic language the full of creation, what will happen and how it will happen.
something religion does not fully understand.

the most important symbol in the torah is actually marriage, thats why it always gets mentioned, especially because it explains what a soul has to do.

a soul exist in man and woman form, the man is the truth it wants to become, the woman is the truth it was, faith and repenting together give the new person, or baptised person, (water is refelection, for this reason lots wife was left behind as a saltpillar), or son.
this is a parable in the law to hide the truth, because war was ordained, hate was ordained, creation exists for 2 reasons, one of them choice, the other logic and free will of god, the 2 angels on the arc, carried by its servants.

jesus replied to the sanhedrin, arent we all sons of god,
and amkes a difference between son of man, bride, christ, and messiah.

christians think they all are the same word.christians go wrong that they first mistranslated many texts, and as many religions, think that their god is a text, not god law, gods law is the arc written out as a scroll, where you are written on, and this scroll is alive, this is the word of god, creation and heaven as written out in a never changing way, it is te word of god that has everything in it, because he bleiefs it, andd belief is his only law to make something exist.

the son of man are all prophets,
christ are all that enter the kingdom
the son are all that search the kingdom (and christ has many names, truth, way, salvation,...) still fight their own ignorance.

jesus was a mirror of the son of man, like david was a mirror of the prophets before they became son of man, elijah will be the mirror of the common people,

but like an octopus has many feet, god has many faces. and the will of god, christ as one body, is able to enter time, and say hi to the world, and divide it because of his presence, even when he only is love.

i know my mails are difficult. i know they will never be understood, but i try because i wish, but i know i try in vain.
I am Daniel
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I have a bible burning fetish, that's when I am not using them to wipe my ass of course.
Rising Son (OP)
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Lisa, thank you for your insight and wisdom - you have added a less obtuse mood to the thread, and I understand what and why you have said the things you have. This is really a tough spot that Christians find themselves in today, because one side is telling them that Jesus would not want them to judge another but to accept everyone that comes to Christ, while the other side is telling them that Jesus declared homosexuality a sin as defined in the Old Testament, and that is equally wrong to accept that sin as okay. I think the one thing that sets this issue apart from other sins that could be judged is the individuals' unwillingness to stop sinning and their apparent pride in that particular sin. Further, they have begun to justify their actions by twisting the scriptures to fit their lifestyle, and that is wrong. The reason I said that a homosexual cannot be a true Christian is because they are unrepentant for their sin. I would say the same thing about a murderer or thief who was unrepentant for their particular sins, but felt justified in calling themselves Christians. It all comes down to the decision to turn away from sin - not that we will never sin again because we will, but to TRY and avoid sin whenever possible.
 Quoting: Rising Son


:) I"m asking you to take it to the next level and think about this a little deeper. What is sin? How do you define it? By a list of rules?

Jesus told us to go deeper, look deeper........because the intent of the heart determines if an action is sinful or not.

Example: An ugly child comes up to me and ask me if I think she is ugly? I say "Of course not, I think you're a beautiful girl". Ok, I lied........and the bible says that liars won't make it to heaven, and I'm a liar because I told her that I didn't think she was ugly even tho she was.

Another Example: I bake my neighbor a cake, take it over to her and present it as a gift because I really want to see if she is secretly screwing the mailman again.

Which example is a sin?
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


I understand what you are talking about, the basic definition of a "white lie". The intent of a "white lie" can be argued as an effort to avoid the unnecessary pain of another in response to a painful truth. In the end, we are talking about a painful truth here, in that Jesus and God unequivocally and definitively determined homosexuality to be a sin. Even the most "harmless" sin done with the best and true of intentions is still harmful to God, as the person participating in the sin has determined that God's Law is not worth adhering to. God sees this as a sign of disrespect to Him, even though it appears not to hurt anyone. If two homosexuals legitimately love one another and also love God, they must determine who they love more - their Creator who decried that homosexual behavior is wrong, or the person they love that they are engaging in that behavior with. It really comes down to respect for God and priorities - is your priority to live within God's Laws because you love and respect Him, or is it to pursue the goal of your earthly emotions, no matter if they are in violation of God's Law or not.
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

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