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Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others

 
Lisa*Lisa

User ID: 21057428
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03/04/2013 08:02 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Lisa, thank you for your insight and wisdom - you have added a less obtuse mood to the thread, and I understand what and why you have said the things you have. This is really a tough spot that Christians find themselves in today, because one side is telling them that Jesus would not want them to judge another but to accept everyone that comes to Christ, while the other side is telling them that Jesus declared homosexuality a sin as defined in the Old Testament, and that is equally wrong to accept that sin as okay. I think the one thing that sets this issue apart from other sins that could be judged is the individuals' unwillingness to stop sinning and their apparent pride in that particular sin. Further, they have begun to justify their actions by twisting the scriptures to fit their lifestyle, and that is wrong. The reason I said that a homosexual cannot be a true Christian is because they are unrepentant for their sin. I would say the same thing about a murderer or thief who was unrepentant for their particular sins, but felt justified in calling themselves Christians. It all comes down to the decision to turn away from sin - not that we will never sin again because we will, but to TRY and avoid sin whenever possible.
 Quoting: Rising Son


:) I"m asking you to take it to the next level and think about this a little deeper. What is sin? How do you define it? By a list of rules?

Jesus told us to go deeper, look deeper........because the intent of the heart determines if an action is sinful or not.

Example: An ugly child comes up to me and ask me if I think she is ugly? I say "Of course not, I think you're a beautiful girl". Ok, I lied........and the bible says that liars won't make it to heaven, and I'm a liar because I told her that I didn't think she was ugly even tho she was.

Another Example: I bake my neighbor a cake, take it over to her and present it as a gift because I really want to see if she is secretly screwing the mailman again.

Which example is a sin?
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


I understand what you are talking about, the basic definition of a "white lie". The intent of a "white lie" can be argued as an effort to avoid the unnecessary pain of another in response to a painful truth. In the end, we are talking about a painful truth here, in that Jesus and God unequivocally and definitively determined homosexuality to be a sin. Even the most "harmless" sin done with the best and true of intentions is still harmful to God, as the person participating in the sin has determined that God's Law is not worth adhering to. God sees this as a sign of disrespect to Him, even though it appears not to hurt anyone. If two homosexuals legitimately love one another and also love God, they must determine who they love more - their Creator who decried that homosexual behavior is wrong, or the person they love that they are engaging in that behavior with. It really comes down to respect for God and priorities - is your priority to live within God's Laws because you love and respect Him, or is it to pursue the goal of your earthly emotions, no matter if they are in violation of God's Law or not.
 Quoting: Rising Son


So, I'm a liar......and I admitted it. The bible does not say "white lie"......it just says lie.

I decided to lie, knowingly, and I carried it out.

Was that a sin?
Have You Accepted Jesus As Your Savior Yet? What Are You Waiting For?

____________________________


"Tell them, I love them" - Jesus Christ

"If love were a tree, compassion would be its fruit." - unknown
____________________________

A dear friend's website [link to www.savemenowjesus.com]

_____________________________

Do you have questions about God or need a friend to talk to? Email me at LisaLovesJesus7@gmail.com
___________________________

2 Corinthians 12:9 - "Each time he said, "My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness." So now I am glad to boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ can work through me."

_________________________

One of the greatest things you can do for God is to show love to His other kids.
onelastcloud

User ID: 35551503
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03/04/2013 08:05 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
RS: come on guy, get real, maybe you have to decide who you love more your future son of god...

do you even know what you are writing ?

if you give up your son for god, then you give up the question if god is good or wrong, still even when it can be counted as righteousness, as abraham, god made clear revelation is something of time progressing, and one can think if salvation is so important as to give up your son.

the question is, why is salvation so important for us, that we can not see the love of god for the others.
onelastcloud

User ID: 35551883
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03/04/2013 08:13 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
actually my dad loved go so much, and im not rediculing it, my dad DOES love god so much, god gave him a gay son,
so he could improve his own being.

now he has the choice, giving up his son for his own salvation
or hearing what his son says.
Rising Son (OP)
Spirit Of The Wolf, Soul Of The Lion

User ID: 35530451
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03/04/2013 08:17 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
...


Lisa, thank you for your insight and wisdom - you have added a less obtuse mood to the thread, and I understand what and why you have said the things you have. This is really a tough spot that Christians find themselves in today, because one side is telling them that Jesus would not want them to judge another but to accept everyone that comes to Christ, while the other side is telling them that Jesus declared homosexuality a sin as defined in the Old Testament, and that is equally wrong to accept that sin as okay. I think the one thing that sets this issue apart from other sins that could be judged is the individuals' unwillingness to stop sinning and their apparent pride in that particular sin. Further, they have begun to justify their actions by twisting the scriptures to fit their lifestyle, and that is wrong. The reason I said that a homosexual cannot be a true Christian is because they are unrepentant for their sin. I would say the same thing about a murderer or thief who was unrepentant for their particular sins, but felt justified in calling themselves Christians. It all comes down to the decision to turn away from sin - not that we will never sin again because we will, but to TRY and avoid sin whenever possible.
 Quoting: Rising Son


:) I"m asking you to take it to the next level and think about this a little deeper. What is sin? How do you define it? By a list of rules?

Jesus told us to go deeper, look deeper........because the intent of the heart determines if an action is sinful or not.

Example: An ugly child comes up to me and ask me if I think she is ugly? I say "Of course not, I think you're a beautiful girl". Ok, I lied........and the bible says that liars won't make it to heaven, and I'm a liar because I told her that I didn't think she was ugly even tho she was.

Another Example: I bake my neighbor a cake, take it over to her and present it as a gift because I really want to see if she is secretly screwing the mailman again.

Which example is a sin?
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


I understand what you are talking about, the basic definition of a "white lie". The intent of a "white lie" can be argued as an effort to avoid the unnecessary pain of another in response to a painful truth. In the end, we are talking about a painful truth here, in that Jesus and God unequivocally and definitively determined homosexuality to be a sin. Even the most "harmless" sin done with the best and true of intentions is still harmful to God, as the person participating in the sin has determined that God's Law is not worth adhering to. God sees this as a sign of disrespect to Him, even though it appears not to hurt anyone. If two homosexuals legitimately love one another and also love God, they must determine who they love more - their Creator who decried that homosexual behavior is wrong, or the person they love that they are engaging in that behavior with. It really comes down to respect for God and priorities - is your priority to live within God's Laws because you love and respect Him, or is it to pursue the goal of your earthly emotions, no matter if they are in violation of God's Law or not.
 Quoting: Rising Son


So, I'm a liar......and I admitted it. The bible does not say "white lie"......it just says lie.

I decided to lie, knowingly, and I carried it out.

Was that a sin?
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


I think it comes down to what the greater harm is. Your lie was to help ease the pain of another, which I am certain God understands and approves of. However, there comes a time when we all must face reality and come to terms with who we are and what we need to change about ourselves - we can only be coddled and lied to for so long before the harsh realities of this world confront us in a hurtful way. When that happens, all of the loving intentions in the world will not help assuage the pain that is felt from the hurtful contradictions of this world. In a sense, tough love causes some pain now, but less pain in the long run, while a "white lie" eases pain now, but causes more pain in the long run. Also, I am uncomfortable calling you a liar without distinguishing the circumstances surrounding it.
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
onelastcloud

User ID: 35552097
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03/04/2013 08:19 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
actully, salvation of the own soul is the most materialistic thing existing. if you give up your own salvation, saying god, you can take my soul but i will never stop pleading for all others, then one understands the gospel.
Rising Son (OP)
Spirit Of The Wolf, Soul Of The Lion

User ID: 35530451
United States
03/04/2013 08:19 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Here's an example of an individual who is being persecuted for standing fast to his beliefs in God and the Laws God gave us:

[link to news.yahoo.com]
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
Lisa*Lisa

User ID: 21057428
United States
03/04/2013 08:20 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
...


:) I"m asking you to take it to the next level and think about this a little deeper. What is sin? How do you define it? By a list of rules?

Jesus told us to go deeper, look deeper........because the intent of the heart determines if an action is sinful or not.

Example: An ugly child comes up to me and ask me if I think she is ugly? I say "Of course not, I think you're a beautiful girl". Ok, I lied........and the bible says that liars won't make it to heaven, and I'm a liar because I told her that I didn't think she was ugly even tho she was.

Another Example: I bake my neighbor a cake, take it over to her and present it as a gift because I really want to see if she is secretly screwing the mailman again.

Which example is a sin?
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


I understand what you are talking about, the basic definition of a "white lie". The intent of a "white lie" can be argued as an effort to avoid the unnecessary pain of another in response to a painful truth. In the end, we are talking about a painful truth here, in that Jesus and God unequivocally and definitively determined homosexuality to be a sin. Even the most "harmless" sin done with the best and true of intentions is still harmful to God, as the person participating in the sin has determined that God's Law is not worth adhering to. God sees this as a sign of disrespect to Him, even though it appears not to hurt anyone. If two homosexuals legitimately love one another and also love God, they must determine who they love more - their Creator who decried that homosexual behavior is wrong, or the person they love that they are engaging in that behavior with. It really comes down to respect for God and priorities - is your priority to live within God's Laws because you love and respect Him, or is it to pursue the goal of your earthly emotions, no matter if they are in violation of God's Law or not.
 Quoting: Rising Son


So, I'm a liar......and I admitted it. The bible does not say "white lie"......it just says lie.

I decided to lie, knowingly, and I carried it out.

Was that a sin?
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


I think it comes down to what the greater harm is. Your lie was to help ease the pain of another, which I am certain God understands and approves of. However, there comes a time when we all must face reality and come to terms with who we are and what we need to change about ourselves - we can only be coddled and lied to for so long before the harsh realities of this world confront us in a hurtful way. When that happens, all of the loving intentions in the world will not help assuage the pain that is felt from the hurtful contradictions of this world. In a sense, tough love causes some pain now, but less pain in the long run, while a "white lie" eases pain now, but causes more pain in the long run. Also, I am uncomfortable calling you a liar without distinguishing the circumstances surrounding it.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Ok, let's try another example. The bible says "Do not kill".

A crazy man breaks into your home in the middle of the night and is going to kill your wife and your kids.

You have a loaded gun pointed at him, and he doesn't stop. The shot you are about to take will definitely kill him and there is no way around it.

Do you shoot him? Or, do you stand there and allow him to slaughter your family?
Have You Accepted Jesus As Your Savior Yet? What Are You Waiting For?

____________________________


"Tell them, I love them" - Jesus Christ

"If love were a tree, compassion would be its fruit." - unknown
____________________________

A dear friend's website [link to www.savemenowjesus.com]

_____________________________

Do you have questions about God or need a friend to talk to? Email me at LisaLovesJesus7@gmail.com
___________________________

2 Corinthians 12:9 - "Each time he said, "My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness." So now I am glad to boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ can work through me."

_________________________

One of the greatest things you can do for God is to show love to His other kids.
onelastcloud

User ID: 35552273
Spain
03/04/2013 08:23 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
you shoot him in the leg.

that is restraint.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31769448
United States
03/04/2013 08:24 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
...


I understand what you are talking about, the basic definition of a "white lie". The intent of a "white lie" can be argued as an effort to avoid the unnecessary pain of another in response to a painful truth. In the end, we are talking about a painful truth here, in that Jesus and God unequivocally and definitively determined homosexuality to be a sin. Even the most "harmless" sin done with the best and true of intentions is still harmful to God, as the person participating in the sin has determined that God's Law is not worth adhering to. God sees this as a sign of disrespect to Him, even though it appears not to hurt anyone. If two homosexuals legitimately love one another and also love God, they must determine who they love more - their Creator who decried that homosexual behavior is wrong, or the person they love that they are engaging in that behavior with. It really comes down to respect for God and priorities - is your priority to live within God's Laws because you love and respect Him, or is it to pursue the goal of your earthly emotions, no matter if they are in violation of God's Law or not.
 Quoting: Rising Son


So, I'm a liar......and I admitted it. The bible does not say "white lie"......it just says lie.

I decided to lie, knowingly, and I carried it out.

Was that a sin?
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


I think it comes down to what the greater harm is. Your lie was to help ease the pain of another, which I am certain God understands and approves of. However, there comes a time when we all must face reality and come to terms with who we are and what we need to change about ourselves - we can only be coddled and lied to for so long before the harsh realities of this world confront us in a hurtful way. When that happens, all of the loving intentions in the world will not help assuage the pain that is felt from the hurtful contradictions of this world. In a sense, tough love causes some pain now, but less pain in the long run, while a "white lie" eases pain now, but causes more pain in the long run. Also, I am uncomfortable calling you a liar without distinguishing the circumstances surrounding it.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Ok, let's try another example. The bible says "Do not kill".

A crazy man breaks into your home in the middle of the night and is going to kill your wife and your kids.

You have a loaded gun pointed at him, and he doesn't stop. The shot you are about to take will definitely kill him and there is no way around it.

Do you shoot him? Or, do you stand there and allow him to slaughter your family?
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


you kill him, to allow him to kill you and family is to commit suicide which is self murder. And Christ commented against GAY and all other crap sex, and not against love. There is no problem with gays sharing life as partners, it is the sex. Love rules and that sex is not love. Sex on this planet rarely involves love anyway, love is a concept still mostly unknown.
Lisa*Lisa

User ID: 21057428
United States
03/04/2013 08:24 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
you shoot him in the leg.

that is restraint.
 Quoting: onelastcloud


That's not an option because it's a huge gun that will blow him to pieces.......lol.
Have You Accepted Jesus As Your Savior Yet? What Are You Waiting For?

____________________________


"Tell them, I love them" - Jesus Christ

"If love were a tree, compassion would be its fruit." - unknown
____________________________

A dear friend's website [link to www.savemenowjesus.com]

_____________________________

Do you have questions about God or need a friend to talk to? Email me at LisaLovesJesus7@gmail.com
___________________________

2 Corinthians 12:9 - "Each time he said, "My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness." So now I am glad to boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ can work through me."

_________________________

One of the greatest things you can do for God is to show love to His other kids.
onelastcloud

User ID: 35552373
Spain
03/04/2013 08:25 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
you have a problem with thinking in realtives and seeing the concepts of things i think sometimes RS, on the other hand your a smart guy, and i know you understand rrelatives.

you defend always, but when u defend u also try to defend the one you think is evil, this is gospel.

u restrain before you do.
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 08:26 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Ok, one last post then I'm done:)

I'll share with you guys something that I've learned over the years. Sin is all about the heart.......not a list of rules.

Let me explain.

I am by no means a perfect person, in fact.....if I were to examine my life, my thoughts, my actions, my words and compared them to Jesus Christ......I'm a vile and disgusting evil asshole.

Let's keep it real, ok? No candy coating, just the real deal.

I sin on a daily basis. Yea, choice words come out of my mouth almost daily.......and be sure I think them daily even if I don't say it.

Sure......a good looking man walks by, or on the tv and I sure do think "Well, check him out!"

I'm a smoker........I puff away all day long. I'm known to have a glass or two of wine and get pretty tipsy.

I get into arguments with all of my family, and sometimes I really get pissed off!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes I even hold a grudge for a day or two....cause I want to.

I've been known to take the larger piece of cake for myself, on occasion.

I speed when I'm driving, don't always wear my seatbelt, and have done much worse then that.

Ok, so we have established that I"m no saint here, but even still, I do have a close relationship with Jesus. Now, you know when I've had the boom lowered on my head? When I've been really out of line and He corrected me severely?

I'll tell you when........when I hurt someone, my brother or my sister. When I hurt them while being self-righteous. I felt justified, and as far as doctrine goe, I was 100% right. But, I hurt them, and as far as Jesus was concerned I was 100% wrong. So wrong in fact that He wouldn't even let me pray until I humbled myself before those people and apologized and made it right.

I'll tell you guys, the biggest sin of all is hurting others in the name of God. Using Him as a weapon against others is a terrible thing. Pushing people away from Him is incredibly hurtful because when you remove all the candy coating, we are all evil, vile assholes ourselves. One no better then the other when we compare ourselves to Jesus Christ.

It is by His grace, by His sacrifice, by His mercy, by His forgiveness that ANY of us make it to heaven because each and every one of us deserves to go straight to hell.

When we argue about doctrines, fight about verses and meanings, when we point out eachother's sins, when we put obstacles in the paths of the unbelievers.......we are doing the same thing the pharisees did, either knowingly or unknowingly.

I'm not calling anyone here a pharisee, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that we should all examine our own hearts and be careful of our words so that we don't become a pharisee in our hearts because we are all assholes and none of us should ever forget that.

My cousin told me what happened in her church years ago. Durring the service a homeless man walked in and sat down in one of the rows of benches and was listening to the sermon. He obviously had not bathed in a long time and yes he smelled bad. They actually asked him to leave. Yes, that really happened. He was escorted out.

I have no doubt that the wretched stench from the people who asked him to leave reached the nostrils of God in a profound way........even tho they were bathed, pretty, well dressed, and perfumed. What an abomination.

Ok........I'm now rambling on again. Now all that I've said.....if I have hurt anyone here, offended anyone here, or made anyone feel bad......please accept my apology. I am in no way trying to put anyone down or hurt anyone, just trying to show maybe another way of thinking about things. God bless everyone.......we are all assholes. :):)

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Lisa, thank you for your insight and wisdom - you have added a less obtuse mood to the thread, and I understand what and why you have said the things you have. This is really a tough spot that Christians find themselves in today, because one side is telling them that Jesus would not want them to judge another but to accept everyone that comes to Christ, while the other side is telling them that Jesus declared homosexuality a sin as defined in the Old Testament, and that is equally wrong to accept that sin as okay. I think the one thing that sets this issue apart from other sins that could be judged is the individuals' unwillingness to stop sinning and their apparent pride in that particular sin. Further, they have begun to justify their actions by twisting the scriptures to fit their lifestyle, and that is wrong. The reason I said that a homosexual cannot be a true Christian is because they are unrepentant for their sin. I would say the same thing about a murderer or thief who was unrepentant for their particular sins, but felt justified in calling themselves Christians. It all comes down to the decision to turn away from sin - not that we will never sin again because we will, but to TRY and avoid sin whenever possible.
 Quoting: Rising Son


:) I"m asking you to take it to the next level and think about this a little deeper. What is sin? How do you define it? By a list of rules?

Jesus told us to go deeper, look deeper........because the intent of the heart determines if an action is sinful or not.

Example: An ugly child comes up to me and ask me if I think she is ugly? I say "Of course not, I think you're a beautiful girl". Ok, I lied........and the bible says that liars won't make it to heaven, and I'm a liar because I told her that I didn't think she was ugly even tho she was.

Another Example: I bake my neighbor a cake, take it over to her and present it as a gift because I really want to see if she is secretly screwing the mailman again.

Which example is a sin?
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


well Lisa you don't understand. You have associated LOOKS with "ugly" and beautiful and thus exposed your shallowness. All children are of God and beautiful. And beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, and in your story /example you have suggested the child was ugly...... Grow up some more.
Lisa*Lisa

User ID: 21057428
United States
03/04/2013 08:28 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Ok, one last post then I'm done:)

I'll share with you guys something that I've learned over the years. Sin is all about the heart.......not a list of rules.

Let me explain.

I am by no means a perfect person, in fact.....if I were to examine my life, my thoughts, my actions, my words and compared them to Jesus Christ......I'm a vile and disgusting evil asshole.

Let's keep it real, ok? No candy coating, just the real deal.

I sin on a daily basis. Yea, choice words come out of my mouth almost daily.......and be sure I think them daily even if I don't say it.

Sure......a good looking man walks by, or on the tv and I sure do think "Well, check him out!"

I'm a smoker........I puff away all day long. I'm known to have a glass or two of wine and get pretty tipsy.

I get into arguments with all of my family, and sometimes I really get pissed off!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes I even hold a grudge for a day or two....cause I want to.

I've been known to take the larger piece of cake for myself, on occasion.

I speed when I'm driving, don't always wear my seatbelt, and have done much worse then that.

Ok, so we have established that I"m no saint here, but even still, I do have a close relationship with Jesus. Now, you know when I've had the boom lowered on my head? When I've been really out of line and He corrected me severely?

I'll tell you when........when I hurt someone, my brother or my sister. When I hurt them while being self-righteous. I felt justified, and as far as doctrine goe, I was 100% right. But, I hurt them, and as far as Jesus was concerned I was 100% wrong. So wrong in fact that He wouldn't even let me pray until I humbled myself before those people and apologized and made it right.

I'll tell you guys, the biggest sin of all is hurting others in the name of God. Using Him as a weapon against others is a terrible thing. Pushing people away from Him is incredibly hurtful because when you remove all the candy coating, we are all evil, vile assholes ourselves. One no better then the other when we compare ourselves to Jesus Christ.

It is by His grace, by His sacrifice, by His mercy, by His forgiveness that ANY of us make it to heaven because each and every one of us deserves to go straight to hell.

When we argue about doctrines, fight about verses and meanings, when we point out eachother's sins, when we put obstacles in the paths of the unbelievers.......we are doing the same thing the pharisees did, either knowingly or unknowingly.

I'm not calling anyone here a pharisee, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that we should all examine our own hearts and be careful of our words so that we don't become a pharisee in our hearts because we are all assholes and none of us should ever forget that.

My cousin told me what happened in her church years ago. Durring the service a homeless man walked in and sat down in one of the rows of benches and was listening to the sermon. He obviously had not bathed in a long time and yes he smelled bad. They actually asked him to leave. Yes, that really happened. He was escorted out.

I have no doubt that the wretched stench from the people who asked him to leave reached the nostrils of God in a profound way........even tho they were bathed, pretty, well dressed, and perfumed. What an abomination.

Ok........I'm now rambling on again. Now all that I've said.....if I have hurt anyone here, offended anyone here, or made anyone feel bad......please accept my apology. I am in no way trying to put anyone down or hurt anyone, just trying to show maybe another way of thinking about things. God bless everyone.......we are all assholes. :):)

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Lisa, thank you for your insight and wisdom - you have added a less obtuse mood to the thread, and I understand what and why you have said the things you have. This is really a tough spot that Christians find themselves in today, because one side is telling them that Jesus would not want them to judge another but to accept everyone that comes to Christ, while the other side is telling them that Jesus declared homosexuality a sin as defined in the Old Testament, and that is equally wrong to accept that sin as okay. I think the one thing that sets this issue apart from other sins that could be judged is the individuals' unwillingness to stop sinning and their apparent pride in that particular sin. Further, they have begun to justify their actions by twisting the scriptures to fit their lifestyle, and that is wrong. The reason I said that a homosexual cannot be a true Christian is because they are unrepentant for their sin. I would say the same thing about a murderer or thief who was unrepentant for their particular sins, but felt justified in calling themselves Christians. It all comes down to the decision to turn away from sin - not that we will never sin again because we will, but to TRY and avoid sin whenever possible.
 Quoting: Rising Son


:) I"m asking you to take it to the next level and think about this a little deeper. What is sin? How do you define it? By a list of rules?

Jesus told us to go deeper, look deeper........because the intent of the heart determines if an action is sinful or not.

Example: An ugly child comes up to me and ask me if I think she is ugly? I say "Of course not, I think you're a beautiful girl". Ok, I lied........and the bible says that liars won't make it to heaven, and I'm a liar because I told her that I didn't think she was ugly even tho she was.

Another Example: I bake my neighbor a cake, take it over to her and present it as a gift because I really want to see if she is secretly screwing the mailman again.

Which example is a sin?
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


well Lisa you don't understand. You have associated LOOKS with "ugly" and beautiful and thus exposed your shallowness. All children are of God and beautiful. And beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, and in your story /example you have suggested the child was ugly...... Grow up some more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31769448


Continue on with your false judgement instead of learning something here.......way to go.

I give up. Have a great day.
Have You Accepted Jesus As Your Savior Yet? What Are You Waiting For?

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onelastcloud

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03/04/2013 08:34 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
lisa, dont give up, do like rs, dot reply when u cant take it at that time or when its not worth replying in ur view:) hahah

u make good points in ur posts...

about the gun, if one restrains, he takes care to buy a lighter gun, this is called preparation, the brides that prepare to take care of others.
MuzzleBreak

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03/04/2013 08:47 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
bump
In his book, "Between Two Ages," Brzezinski wrote: "The technetronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values."

MuzzleBreak
A Voice in the Wilderness
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03/04/2013 09:08 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
I hear often from gay rights activists that Jesus Christ never spoke out about homosexuality or that He never mentioned sexual orientation. This is to set the record straight, so that those with an agenda can stop claiming things they know nothing about.

This first passage is Jesus Christ speaking out against homosexuality. Notice that He differentiates between adultery and sexual immorality - this is important to note because the term 'homosexuality' was not common during His time obviously, so He used the term sexual immorality - separate from adultery - to encompass homosexuality and any other sexual wickedness that is immoral:

Mark 7:21-22

"For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly."

This next passage is Jesus' affirmation of the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman. He even goes as far as referencing the story of Creation in which God created male and female. Notice how He specifies a man and wife, not a man and his partner or a woman and her partner:

Matthew 19:4-5

"Haven't you read," He replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?"

So, do not let anyone tell you that Jesus Christ never spoke out against homosexuality, and that He didn't support traditional marriage. Furthermore, it is not possible for you to be a gay Christian. That is the same thing as claiming to be a Christian thief - if you are unrepentant for your sin and you continue that sin in ignorance of Jesus' teachings, you are a walking contradiction.

With all of this being said, it is wrong to cast judgment on others if we ourselves are in need of judgment. However, it is also wrong to support and sponsor immorality while at the same time denigrating the traditional definition of marriage, as Jesus taught us. We all should love homosexuals as we love each other, and in that love, we should yearn to help them overcome their illness of the mind.
 Quoting: Rising Son


It's great to see people still misusing the Bible to falsely claim things.

Firstly you all believe MOSES... WOW!

Look at this simple quote

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."

Now you have read it did notice that at the start of the verse the son is just "stubborn and rebellious" BUT they are ordered to testify that he is "a glutton and a drunkard", thereby bearing FALSE WITNESS!

Moses is teaching people to break the 9th Commandment. Isn't he?

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

OOps hang on no he isn't ... According to the Bible GOD apparently thinks it is fine to bear false witness against a relative, thereby getting the son stoned to death! He states clearly "against thy neighbour".

Really?

GOD the most intelligent being ever, missed this point in the 10 commandments? Surely GOD would say "Do not bear false witness against anybody"!

So do you believe GOD allows false testimony against family?

If you didn't notice this why not? It simply undermines the intelligence of GOD.

So anything MOSES says is highly questionable! Hang on, no, it is probably WRONG!

Now Jesus did say in Mark 7:21-22 "For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly."

But hang on... That doesn't mention homosexuality... That is a judgement call on your part.

He did however mention in

Matthew 5:27-30 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast (it) from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not (that) thy whole body should be cast into hell.

And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast (it) from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not (that) thy whole body should be cast into hell.


Any of you card carrying Christians dug out an eye or cut off a hand yet? Hypocrites are we? 1rof1

Now others here quote Paul. I have proven time and again why Paul can't be trusted. Here have a read. Show me where Jesus taught what Paul taught on women!

Thread: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle? (Page 13)

So by attacking homosexuals are you self proclaimed Christians following Jesus?

Are you judging? YEP! WHY?

Are you casting stones? YEP! Lovely to know that most Christians here have never sinned!

Are you doing unto others? NOPE!

Homosexuality isn't an illness of the mind, please try to stop lying.

Revelation 21:8 All liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Step right up ... get your free dose of hypocrisy!

Listen People, try to stop picking on others when you are failing JESUS' teachings and GOD yourselves!

Also please don't pluck an eye out or cut a hand off just because Jesus said it... That's a little silly isn't it?

red_heart
onelastcloud

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03/04/2013 09:17 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
hey, thanks for your mail, but do you read all the posts, we always have to start again :)

if my mother says, dont ask money to strangers,
she didn say ask money to no strangers.

if she says, in the morning you cant drink nor do sports,
she will nafterwards not say if you drink you are okay, but if you do sports your bad.

i think christian logic is something weird
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 11:45 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
I had a dream where myself and my partner had decided we needed to ask Jesus to turn us straight. We were both really committed to doing this. So we approached Jesus and asked him to change us. Jesus became offended and walked away. We were shocked because we thought/expected Jesus to be pleased and say "well done, I will change you". We were both wondering why this would offend Him. A few seconds later Jesus came back to us and said "I am your brother, I never judged you".

And that was the big penny drop moment for me.
Its religion that says "God hates gays" not Christians.
God isnt even a god of hate. He loves us all. We are all his creation. Jesus loves us all too! And he never judges us.

ALL those that believe in Jesus Christ and ALL those that confess his name and ALL those that confess that he is their saviour will be saved!
There are so many people out there that are very quick to quote scripture on homosexuality but they ALWAYS and intentionally omit the fact that if you confess Jesus as your saviour then you'll be saved. The plan of salvation is for whosoever, WHOSOEVER believeth in the Lord.

There are many religious people out there that arent going to make it into heaven. They lift themselves up above everyone else. They turn their backs on gay people instead of trying help them. Religious people fail to understand that being a Christian is about relationship and not religion.
Many will say on judgement day "Lord, Lord did I not prophecy in your name....etc.", to which the Lord will say "depart from me, I never knew you".

Because of the opression of gays many do end up in sexual immorality as they are not free to live in a normal relationship openly. They are led to believe that gay venues, clubs and parties are all they have. They are fed all these false and demonic ideas on what it is to be gay and how they are free to live as they feel. And religion just enforces this demonic decption.

And lastly, the only "illness of the mind" is denying Jesus is Saviour.


Praise and glory to God!
Amen
hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35487279


Forgive me but your post makes you seem like a very double minded person. On the one hand you state that you had this vision? of Jesus accepting your sin even though you have decided not to repent or turn away from it and on the other hand you talk about religions judging homosexuals instead of helping them. I have to wonder here...what do you mean by "help." Because your post is a bit on the confusing side and seems to say that your mind is already made up and that you don't want help. Is this correct? Maybe I'm just misreading it?
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


If you're confused or lacking in wisdom, please read James Chapter 1 Verse 5.

It seems that you might just be one of the pharisees or the religious people of the world. You stated "Jesus accepting sin". Jesus doesnt accept sin neither does God. Gay Christians should be making a concerted effort not to get into sin just like any other Christian. There are no exceptions for anyone!
So if any Christian, gay or straight, be caught up in sin then all must turn away from that sin, repent and ask the Lord for guidance and strength. It's pretty simple really.

Seriously, if you dont know what it means to "help" others or to be a blessing to others or to offer guidance and councelling or to offer encouragement and support, then how can you call yourself a Christian? Or is that just it, you're a non Christian? Ooops, my appologies for assuming you were a Christian. Doh!

OK, I would suggest you visit a Bible based church (ie. not Catholic, Mormon, SDA, JW etc) and see or rather experience what it is to be Christian.
I know not everyone believes in the Lord and would simply refuse to go to a church, but how do you know what it is like if youve never tried it. We're not Bible bashing religious freaks... lol. ;)


Just remember that Jesus and God loves all of us, gay or straight. They despise sin as should we.

We are not appointed to judge one another, but to love one another, help and support one another.


Please also read Proverbs 1:20 onwards and Proverbs 8 on Wisdom.
And if you havent tried already or if you dont believe in prayer then please at least try praying once. You will be surprised!

God bless you dear!


Praise and glory to God!
Amen

hf
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 12:07 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
I hear often from gay rights activists that Jesus Christ never spoke out about homosexuality or that He never mentioned sexual orientation. This is to set the record straight, so that those with an agenda can stop claiming things they know nothing about.

This first passage is Jesus Christ speaking out against homosexuality. Notice that He differentiates between adultery and sexual immorality - this is important to note because the term 'homosexuality' was not common during His time obviously, so He used the term sexual immorality - separate from adultery - to encompass homosexuality and any other sexual wickedness that is immoral:

Mark 7:21-22

"For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly."

This next passage is Jesus' affirmation of the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman. He even goes as far as referencing the story of Creation in which God created male and female. Notice how He specifies a man and wife, not a man and his partner or a woman and her partner:

Matthew 19:4-5

"Haven't you read," He replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?"

So, do not let anyone tell you that Jesus Christ never spoke out against homosexuality, and that He didn't support traditional marriage. Furthermore, it is not possible for you to be a gay Christian. That is the same thing as claiming to be a Christian thief - if you are unrepentant for your sin and you continue that sin in ignorance of Jesus' teachings, you are a walking contradiction.

With all of this being said, it is wrong to cast judgment on others if we ourselves are in need of judgment. However, it is also wrong to support and sponsor immorality while at the same time denigrating the traditional definition of marriage, as Jesus taught us. We all should love homosexuals as we love each other, and in that love, we should yearn to help them overcome their illness of the mind.
 Quoting: Rising Son


It's great to see people still misusing the Bible to falsely claim things.

Firstly you all believe MOSES... WOW!

Look at this simple quote

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."

Now you have read it did notice that at the start of the verse the son is just "stubborn and rebellious" BUT they are ordered to testify that he is "a glutton and a drunkard", thereby bearing FALSE WITNESS!

Moses is teaching people to break the 9th Commandment. Isn't he?

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

OOps hang on no he isn't ... According to the Bible GOD apparently thinks it is fine to bear false witness against a relative, thereby getting the son stoned to death! He states clearly "against thy neighbour".

Really?

GOD the most intelligent being ever, missed this point in the 10 commandments? Surely GOD would say "Do not bear false witness against anybody"!

So do you believe GOD allows false testimony against family?

If you didn't notice this why not? It simply undermines the intelligence of GOD.

So anything MOSES says is highly questionable! Hang on, no, it is probably WRONG!

Now Jesus did say in Mark 7:21-22 "For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly."

But hang on... That doesn't mention homosexuality... That is a judgement call on your part.

He did however mention in

Matthew 5:27-30 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast (it) from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not (that) thy whole body should be cast into hell.

And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast (it) from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not (that) thy whole body should be cast into hell.


Any of you card carrying Christians dug out an eye or cut off a hand yet? Hypocrites are we? 1rof1

Now others here quote Paul. I have proven time and again why Paul can't be trusted. Here have a read. Show me where Jesus taught what Paul taught on women!

Thread: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle? (Page 13)

So by attacking homosexuals are you self proclaimed Christians following Jesus?

Are you judging? YEP! WHY?

Are you casting stones? YEP! Lovely to know that most Christians here have never sinned!

Are you doing unto others? NOPE!

Homosexuality isn't an illness of the mind, please try to stop lying.

Revelation 21:8 All liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Step right up ... get your free dose of hypocrisy!

Listen People, try to stop picking on others when you are failing JESUS' teachings and GOD yourselves!

Also please don't pluck an eye out or cut a hand off just because Jesus said it... That's a little silly isn't it?

red_heart
 Quoting: A Voice in the Wilderness 1190661


Well said! :)

People need to stop allowing themselves to be influenced by religiousness. There is a massive difference between being a Christian and being religious. Jesus wasnt religious. Jesus didnt die so that we could have a religion.

Read the bible but dont read it out of religious obligation.

The Bible says Jesus is the way not religion is the way!!
Rising Son (OP)
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03/04/2013 12:10 PM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
...


I understand what you are talking about, the basic definition of a "white lie". The intent of a "white lie" can be argued as an effort to avoid the unnecessary pain of another in response to a painful truth. In the end, we are talking about a painful truth here, in that Jesus and God unequivocally and definitively determined homosexuality to be a sin. Even the most "harmless" sin done with the best and true of intentions is still harmful to God, as the person participating in the sin has determined that God's Law is not worth adhering to. God sees this as a sign of disrespect to Him, even though it appears not to hurt anyone. If two homosexuals legitimately love one another and also love God, they must determine who they love more - their Creator who decried that homosexual behavior is wrong, or the person they love that they are engaging in that behavior with. It really comes down to respect for God and priorities - is your priority to live within God's Laws because you love and respect Him, or is it to pursue the goal of your earthly emotions, no matter if they are in violation of God's Law or not.
 Quoting: Rising Son


So, I'm a liar......and I admitted it. The bible does not say "white lie"......it just says lie.

I decided to lie, knowingly, and I carried it out.

Was that a sin?
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


I think it comes down to what the greater harm is. Your lie was to help ease the pain of another, which I am certain God understands and approves of. However, there comes a time when we all must face reality and come to terms with who we are and what we need to change about ourselves - we can only be coddled and lied to for so long before the harsh realities of this world confront us in a hurtful way. When that happens, all of the loving intentions in the world will not help assuage the pain that is felt from the hurtful contradictions of this world. In a sense, tough love causes some pain now, but less pain in the long run, while a "white lie" eases pain now, but causes more pain in the long run. Also, I am uncomfortable calling you a liar without distinguishing the circumstances surrounding it.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Ok, let's try another example. The bible says "Do not kill".

A crazy man breaks into your home in the middle of the night and is going to kill your wife and your kids.

You have a loaded gun pointed at him, and he doesn't stop. The shot you are about to take will definitely kill him and there is no way around it.

Do you shoot him? Or, do you stand there and allow him to slaughter your family?
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


That's a good example, but to explain my actions, I must first put God's Commandments in context. I believe that God commanded us not to murder, but I don't believe He commanded us never to kill. If God restricted us from killing, then anyone who eats meat would be in direct violation of the fifth commandment each time they do so. For that reason, I believe I would be justified in stopping the man from killing my wife and kids. I would not immediately try to kill him however, depending on the situation. I would use an escalation of force rubric that I learned in the military, in which it progresses from verbal, to physical to inflict pain, then physical to inflict mortal wounds.
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

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Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 12:30 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
You said:

Ok, let's try another example. The bible says "Do not kill".

A crazy man breaks into your home in the middle of the night and is going to kill your wife and your kids.

You have a loaded gun pointed at him, and he doesn't stop. The shot you are about to take will definitely kill him and there is no way around it.

Do you shoot him? Or, do you stand there and allow him to slaughter your family?


If you do your homework; in the bible the Ten Commandments is not "Thou shalt not kill"... it's murder. Big difference. DO your homework.
Lady Wolf

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03/04/2013 12:33 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Preaching Against=Judge Others
The entire Subject is moot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1518033


I respectfully disagree. Would you say the same about one who disagrees with murder? Why or why not?

To disagree with homosexuality is to proclaim how it does or does not measure up against God's Word. God Himself will judge the sinner, until then, WE are admonished to judge the sin through the measuring rod of righteousness, which is His word and the proper divinely discernment of it.
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


"Thou shalt not kill" pretty simple.
I don't see "thou shalt not be gay"
People are inherantly bisexual. So there.
 Quoting: CeeLite


How does this rebuttal support your previous response to my post? You said not to preach. Yet you give a Bible verse that's against murder just as many here have given Bible verses against homosexuality. I'm sorry but I fail to see a difference here in what you call "preaching against."
Real truth is self evident...
Lady Wolf

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03/04/2013 12:34 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Jesus Himself called on his followers to gently but firmly rebuke the sins of each other within the church, and if that doesn't cause the Christian who is sinning to repent, He then tells us to go to that person with 2 or more others, (I don't quite recall how many) and each of them is to rebuke the sin and encourage the believer to repent from it. But if all else fails, He COMMANDS us to put that person from us! It is the doctrine of excommunication and it is both taught, and supported by the Bible and Jesus Christ Himself!
 Quoting: Lady Wolf
I would like to know where and in which Gospel Jesus is quoted as saying this. Though understand beforehand I am well aware of Paul offering that exact same advice.
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic


Matthew 18

King James Version (KJV)

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31011281


Thank you, I often paraphrase Biblical passages from memory, but I really should take the time and post actual passages and where they're found:)
Real truth is self evident...
Lady Wolf

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
ladywolf, where does the bible give a list where some sins or tasks are more important then other sins and tasks ?

if you read the discussion before, and it is a argument never really replied to here, i explained that in torah all rules are of equal worth, in the gospel you have another set of rules based on blessing and curse, what has been set in front of you, one set of relative rules based on love.

so you can not say jesus said us that the rules of torah are spiritual for some things and not for others,when one chooses the blessing side...the torah condems and set free, so sin is another thing...based on the law, love god (he is all), he does not judge, he only judges indirect (through our choice, ignorance or growth, which is repenting , which is reflecting, which is growth in the spirit of one, which is understanding, which is love)

--

sexual misbehaviour or immorality is not homosexuality.


if the gospels talks about marriage it does not say anything about other forms of love maybe in that place, still it always talks about all forms of love.

the gospels only know one sin, the sin agisnt the spirit (ignorance) still ignorance is part of all sins, if something hurts another and not restrained nor the way improved.
 Quoting: onelastcloud


Hello Onelastcloud:)

Before I answer your question, I just want to tell you how much I've enjoyed your posts on this thread. If I failed to tell you that before, I do apologize. I think the last time I addressed one of your posts here, it was very late and I was in a hurry to get to bed with no time for niceties;)

In answer to your first question, the passage I'm referring to is found here:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
New International Version (NIV)
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Footnotes:

1 Corinthians 6:9 The words men who have sex with men translate two Greek words that refer to the passive and active participants in homosexual acts.
[link to www.biblegateway.com]

I am afraid I'm not too familiar with the Torah. I know OF it but I do not KNOW it. So I can not comment on what you have said concerning it.

In your last paragraph, you mentioned "sin against the spirit." Are you referring to the "unforgivable sin" that Jesus talked about? My understanding of this sin, is that it means one who "blasphemes" the Holy Spirit. That is just my take on it, but you may have a different understanding.

I also need for you to know that I'm having a difficult time understanding some of what you're saying in your posts. It is not your fault, it is just the language barrier between us that makes it hard for me to understand some of what you write. That being said, you do write very well for someone who does not appear to be native to the English language!:)

Before I close this post to you, let me say that I'm not even going to try and pretend to understand the personal struggle you have written about in this thread. Your walk has been a very difficult one and sounds as if it continues to be a challenge in your life. It is my fervent hope and prayer that God will see fit to lead you out of this life of bondage to a sin that you are helpless against without Him. Keep asking God to remove this sin from your life and the desire. It could be that just as Saul/Paul asked God to remove an ailment that he greatly suffered from (we don't know what it was as the Bible doesn't tell us) God chose to answer "no" to this prayer. Sometimes He tells us "no", sometimes He tells us "not now, but in my own timing" and sometimes He tells us "yes." The challenge for us as humans and Christians is to trust God that He knows what is best for us, and that we CAN and SHOULD lean on Him during our weakest moments.

Also remember this, He tells us that He WILL ALWAYS provide a way out of temptation when it is at its strongest, for He promises us that we will NEVER be tempted beyond what we can bare up under. But sometimes, the way out of that temptation may be something very subtle that happens and if we're not paying attention and trusting in His help, we might just miss it.

Here is an experiment you can try. I have done it and I am living proof that it DOES work! The next time you are tempted to sin, no matter what the sin is, and the temptation is so strong that you're tempted to give in to it even though you know it is wrong, say a quick and sincere prayer and ask God to help you out of that moment of temptation. Then really pay attention to what happens after that. Put the Bible and God to the test. He really wants us to do this! He even tells us to "Test me in these things and see what I will do. (paraphrased from memory) Do you remember the story of Elija or was it Elisha? I can't quite remember and the piece of fleece that he used in order to fully understand God's will about an important decision that he had to make? He tested God's will over and over again using that single piece of fleece as a sign that he was properly discerning what God wanted him to do. We can and SHOULD do this too!

Also remember this, every time we say NO to sin, we become even stronger to say NO to it the next time. Think of it this way. Each NO to sin is like a single strand of a very thick rope. The strand by itself, while strong, is not strong enough to get the job done. But each time you say NO to sin, add another strand to that rope. As the rope grows stronger so do we. BUT each NO BEGINS WITH PRAYER! This is oh so important!! Think of your battle as a series of many choices. When temptation comes, you can give into that temptation, or you can CHOOSE instead to pray about it and ask for God's help and His strength to overcome it. Each time you do this, you will be adding strands and strengthening that rope until it becomes unbreakable. A good visual aid for this is to get a ball of twine or string and each time you say a prayer for protection against temptation to sin, cut off a few inches of that string and wind each new piece you cut off around the others. Watch your rope grow and strengthen as you grow in God's strength. It just might help:)

I hope this will help you in your own personal struggle as it has helped me countless times in my own Christian walk. God bless!:)
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


hey :)
thanks for ur mail... i dont take things personal, just ant you to know.

many people think that talking about something is because of a not done struggle, as much as it hurts me people condemn homosexuals, because i am one, what happened with my parents and church before does not affect me anymore, i love my parents, they teached me 20 years about god, and even when they run away now when i want to discuss their teachings, because they are afraid, i love them.

but this is what many christians do, they judge and run away, not many are fit to stay and discuss until the very end.

and this is more thene nough reason to restrain judgements,
if you can not defeat your devils, you are not fit to judge them, maybe avoid yes, we r all weak.

corinthians, it is a difficult subject and i know i will not make you cross to my side yet. maybe it will not happen in this life.

corintians says many things, thiefs, drunkerd,
they will not inherit the kingdom. why ? because nobody will. this is the trap of god set before you. blessing or curse, this is the torah law, or moses law, where the three mayor religions are build on.

the only one to enter the kingdom is god, the only one to enter the paradise is the one who worked through faith, not the one who didnt work with empty faith. if one goes to heaven one becomes one with the will of god, slafe becomes one in will with master, so the slafe dies, and only the master stays, this is how one enters the kingdom. not god without god, but becoming one with god through the burden of god. Satan and god gave jesus the same thing, a kingdom, only, jesus chose to first do his burden, his work through, faith.

the only sin in relation to this is the sin agaisnt the spirit, if life is relative in learning, and sinning, whatever form and theology behind it, is connected to this,
because learning is build on relfection, which is repenting,
then everone is a thief and nobody will enter.
the sin against the spirit is being in ignorance of the better truth tht awaits, and denying it not once, but until more times, this is symbolised in the bible in many stories.
the sin against the spirit is ignorance.

on the other hand you have the blessing of the torah, that gives not only 10 categories, misunderstood by christians as rules, but the 10 categories have another set of rules in it, whoever breaks the least of the commandments, is a sinner and in most cases deserves death. stillthe 10 commandments are also the basic rules of love, the goals, not the start position, and through this ae connected to a spiritual truth, in this form, the law becomes spiritual and all the minor rules from how to wash your body and how to eat , all those things explain in symbolic language the full of creation, what will happen and how it will happen.
something religion does not fully understand.

the most important symbol in the torah is actually marriage, thats why it always gets mentioned, especially because it explains what a soul has to do.

a soul exist in man and woman form, the man is the truth it wants to become, the woman is the truth it was, faith and repenting together give the new person, or baptised person, (water is refelection, for this reason lots wife was left behind as a saltpillar), or son.
this is a parable in the law to hide the truth, because war was ordained, hate was ordained, creation exists for 2 reasons, one of them choice, the other logic and free will of god, the 2 angels on the arc, carried by its servants.

jesus replied to the sanhedrin, arent we all sons of god,
and amkes a difference between son of man, bride, christ, and messiah.

christians think they all are the same word.christians go wrong that they first mistranslated many texts, and as many religions, think that their god is a text, not god law, gods law is the arc written out as a scroll, where you are written on, and this scroll is alive, this is the word of god, creation and heaven as written out in a never changing way, it is te word of god that has everything in it, because he bleiefs it, andd belief is his only law to make something exist.

the son of man are all prophets,
christ are all that enter the kingdom
the son are all that search the kingdom (and christ has many names, truth, way, salvation,...) still fight their own ignorance.

jesus was a mirror of the son of man, like david was a mirror of the prophets before they became son of man, elijah will be the mirror of the common people,

but like an octopus has many feet, god has many faces. and the will of god, christ as one body, is able to enter time, and say hi to the world, and divide it because of his presence, even when he only is love.

i know my mails are difficult. i know they will never be understood, but i try because i wish, but i know i try in vain.
 Quoting: onelastcloud


OLC, can I ask you, are you a former Christian who has converted to Judaism? Or are you a Jew who believes in Jesus, as in Jews for Jesus? Your religious background seems to be a mixed belief of the two religions. Is this correct? But there also seems to be a bit of New Age thinking mixed in. I'm just curious. If you don't want to answer it's fine:)
Real truth is self evident...
Judethz
Israel is Eternal

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03/04/2013 12:49 PM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
hummbird THE PLAGUES OF HOMOSEXUALITY. What will be the end thereof.

UNINVITED... [link to www.chick.com]
Lady Wolf

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03/04/2013 01:24 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Here's an example of an individual who is being persecuted for standing fast to his beliefs in God and the Laws God gave us:

[link to news.yahoo.com]
 Quoting: Rising Son


Wow!! I guess I really shouldn't be surprised the way this world is going. But you'd think that with all of the family court hassles the courts have to endure through broken heterosexual reunions, that they would have thought about adding to the court's docket when they sanctioned same sex "marriages."

I applaud this pastor for being willing to put God's laws before Cesars. That takes courage and a strong faith to be willing to go into religious legal battle for a stranger. God bless him and I hope he is released soon and his sacrifice brings salvation to many following this story. I also hope that the woman who is not the biological mother, sees the error of her ways and repents from this life style and leaves this woman and her child in peace!

Strange times we're living in where up is down, in is out, and good is bad. Hmmmm...sound familiar? ;0)
Real truth is self evident...
onelastcloud

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03/04/2013 01:38 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
hey ,

well i explain you:

i was raised evangelical, but i have jews in the family,
i have many muslimfriends, i myself am a beleiver,
thats how i call it, a believer in the oneness and the allness of god.

still im not a mind that thinks oneness means, we are god before we are granted to be in god, we are god yes, but never without the full of god, so as long u cant set gods creation free in understanding you are not god.

i agree with christianity:
faith opens the door, but faith without works kills the law of growth in spirit, meaning faith and works are one, not opposites.

i dont agree with christianity: that the son does not come home in god, jesus was the son, as you are, before his going up to heaven, when he went up to heaven he became the christ,
the octopus of heaven, where god has many heads but one body and will.
i dont agree what they see as sin, sin is relative and is referenced against your growth, not against the law that is dead, because the law needs to be dead for god not to be divided, and this is the real law. the law kills, so you can become free, if it doesnt kill you, you are not a lost sheep, and you are of false peace, false peace, ignorance, gives you a warm perception of peace in life but if you didnt fight for gods creation, then what would you join it. and fighting goes from bad to good, from attack because of fear it evolves to defense because of understanding.


i agree with islam:
god is one, christianity does not understand, jesus was a prophet

i dont agree with islam:
the oral laws based on misunderstanding that islam confirmed the gospels, and the torah, confirmed the message of love,
just as in the bible they misread and misunderstand
i also dont agree that a muslim needs to accept the knowslegde of who is a prophet and not, a muslim is another word for believer, as islam states abraham was a muslim, because the word means in real sense, the folowwer of god, in the soul of the word muslim and christian and all other religions, they are folowwers of god.
jesus got the LAST SEAL of prophet, meaning he became the son of men when he went to his father, after crucification, not before, this seal of last prophet is the seal of elijah, and this is why mohammed was he mirror of the prophets, prophets who evolved in time and went from lost to understanding at the end of their lifes. in many cases only understanding the parables their lifes were after death.

buddhism:
explains the body of god, not the body of humans, we dont reincarnate into everything, god does, and this message is being misunderstood
i also dont agree with false peace, u dont allow everyhting, we have a burden , a cross to take and we need to fight, because this create sthe flow in the spirit, but we need to learn to fight to defend, not to attack.

hinduism: explains the many fces of god, but lost to many the truth of it, god has many aspects, in chrisitanity they are called angels, in hinduism they are the many gods.

hoppi nd other americans:
they have parables, from a spiderweb to w white brother and more, these are all parables to the paradox of god

judaism:
the keep thelaw holy, still they dont understand the jewish people is a mirror of the real jew, the jew is the prophet in the world, for example the baby that is very sick in your family, these are our prophets, and when they go early to god, they fulfilled the cross for you, they are the real jeiwsh people

the whole bible is full of mirror, which are parables of the truth, christianiy cherriepicks which is literal and abstract, judaism understand better the abstract still does not get their own mirror. islam understand the way of the lost heep still has difficculty with the uturn back, buddhaism was the religion that explains god but one uses it to think he allready is god.

actually im not part of anything, i stand alone.
Lady Wolf

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03/04/2013 01:40 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
I had a dream where myself and my partner had decided we needed to ask Jesus to turn us straight. We were both really committed to doing this. So we approached Jesus and asked him to change us. Jesus became offended and walked away. We were shocked because we thought/expected Jesus to be pleased and say "well done, I will change you". We were both wondering why this would offend Him. A few seconds later Jesus came back to us and said "I am your brother, I never judged you".

And that was the big penny drop moment for me.
Its religion that says "God hates gays" not Christians.
God isnt even a god of hate. He loves us all. We are all his creation. Jesus loves us all too! And he never judges us.

ALL those that believe in Jesus Christ and ALL those that confess his name and ALL those that confess that he is their saviour will be saved!
There are so many people out there that are very quick to quote scripture on homosexuality but they ALWAYS and intentionally omit the fact that if you confess Jesus as your saviour then you'll be saved. The plan of salvation is for whosoever, WHOSOEVER believeth in the Lord.

There are many religious people out there that arent going to make it into heaven. They lift themselves up above everyone else. They turn their backs on gay people instead of trying help them. Religious people fail to understand that being a Christian is about relationship and not religion.
Many will say on judgement day "Lord, Lord did I not prophecy in your name....etc.", to which the Lord will say "depart from me, I never knew you".

Because of the opression of gays many do end up in sexual immorality as they are not free to live in a normal relationship openly. They are led to believe that gay venues, clubs and parties are all they have. They are fed all these false and demonic ideas on what it is to be gay and how they are free to live as they feel. And religion just enforces this demonic decption.

And lastly, the only "illness of the mind" is denying Jesus is Saviour.


Praise and glory to God!
Amen
hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35487279


Forgive me but your post makes you seem like a very double minded person. On the one hand you state that you had this vision? of Jesus accepting your sin even though you have decided not to repent or turn away from it and on the other hand you talk about religions judging homosexuals instead of helping them. I have to wonder here...what do you mean by "help." Because your post is a bit on the confusing side and seems to say that your mind is already made up and that you don't want help. Is this correct? Maybe I'm just misreading it?
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


If you're confused or lacking in wisdom, please read James Chapter 1 Verse 5.

It seems that you might just be one of the pharisees or the religious people of the world. You stated "Jesus accepting sin". Jesus doesnt accept sin neither does God. Gay Christians should be making a concerted effort not to get into sin just like any other Christian. There are no exceptions for anyone!
So if any Christian, gay or straight, be caught up in sin then all must turn away from that sin, repent and ask the Lord for guidance and strength. It's pretty simple really.

Seriously, if you dont know what it means to "help" others or to be a blessing to others or to offer guidance and councelling or to offer encouragement and support, then how can you call yourself a Christian? Or is that just it, you're a non Christian? Ooops, my appologies for assuming you were a Christian. Doh!

OK, I would suggest you visit a Bible based church (ie. not Catholic, Mormon, SDA, JW etc) and see or rather experience what it is to be Christian.
I know not everyone believes in the Lord and would simply refuse to go to a church, but how do you know what it is like if youve never tried it. We're not Bible bashing religious freaks... lol. ;)


Just remember that Jesus and God loves all of us, gay or straight. They despise sin as should we.

We are not appointed to judge one another, but to love one another, help and support one another.


Please also read Proverbs 1:20 onwards and Proverbs 8 on Wisdom.
And if you havent tried already or if you dont believe in prayer then please at least try praying once. You will be surprised!

God bless you dear!


Praise and glory to God!
Amen

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31477877


oh boy...ok. You're so far off base with me it's not even funny, but I can't help but lol here. No offense. My response was to the one I addressed and it was me trying to understand THAT POSTER'S point of view. From HIS OR HER perspective of how he or she wrote that post! In other words, I'm trying to get them to look at what they wrote, REALLY look at it and see for themselves some of the contradiction.

I have been raised as a Christian my entire life, and have in fact spent many of my formative years in the SDA church and thankfully am a survivor of it's cultish doctrines! (no offense to any SDA's here, as this is ONLY my opinion after being raised in the church) I have since that time, continued in my search for the truth about God and recently joined a non-denominational Bible study group.

I don't mean to come across as an arrogant or proud Christian, but your response to my response to another poster caught me completely off guard as in somewhere out of left field! LOL!! I had to remind myself that I am on a public forum and that you and many here don't know me from Adam. But you made many assumptions on me based on how I chose to address and try to help another poster by getting them to read and possibly analyze their own post in a new light.

Again...I'm sorry if I sound rude or condescending, as I don't mean to be, I just don't know what else to say here...
Real truth is self evident...
onelastcloud

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03/04/2013 01:44 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
i forgot some things:

science: they think they think logic, still they search logic in details and dont start from what can or not can be, they dontunderstand consiousness, nor the soul, not the easyness of bringing logic to god, and read the holy books from there.

another thing: i always generalise, every religion has 2 heads, people who use it to find the way they feel in their heart and people who find salvation before they do the law, which are opposites.
Lady Wolf

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03/04/2013 01:48 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
...


So, I'm a liar......and I admitted it. The bible does not say "white lie"......it just says lie.

I decided to lie, knowingly, and I carried it out.

Was that a sin?
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


I think it comes down to what the greater harm is. Your lie was to help ease the pain of another, which I am certain God understands and approves of. However, there comes a time when we all must face reality and come to terms with who we are and what we need to change about ourselves - we can only be coddled and lied to for so long before the harsh realities of this world confront us in a hurtful way. When that happens, all of the loving intentions in the world will not help assuage the pain that is felt from the hurtful contradictions of this world. In a sense, tough love causes some pain now, but less pain in the long run, while a "white lie" eases pain now, but causes more pain in the long run. Also, I am uncomfortable calling you a liar without distinguishing the circumstances surrounding it.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Ok, let's try another example. The bible says "Do not kill".

A crazy man breaks into your home in the middle of the night and is going to kill your wife and your kids.

You have a loaded gun pointed at him, and he doesn't stop. The shot you are about to take will definitely kill him and there is no way around it.

Do you shoot him? Or, do you stand there and allow him to slaughter your family?
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


That's a good example, but to explain my actions, I must first put God's Commandments in context. I believe that God commanded us not to murder, but I don't believe He commanded us never to kill. If God restricted us from killing, then anyone who eats meat would be in direct violation of the fifth commandment each time they do so. For that reason, I believe I would be justified in stopping the man from killing my wife and kids. I would not immediately try to kill him however, depending on the situation. I would use an escalation of force rubric that I learned in the military, in which it progresses from verbal, to physical to inflict pain, then physical to inflict mortal wounds.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Not to thread drift, but I wanted to say thank you for your service:) My son is serving in the Air Force with an E4 rank.
Real truth is self evident...

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