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Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2013 03:02 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
What is it that bothers people so much about homosexuality? Seriously. Penis into vagina vs. penis into butthole. Or penis into mouth. Or whatever. Who cares?

There are so many places to start. Jesus also says "judge not lest ye be judged." Jesus said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

You people forget the real tenets of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Plus, here's the bottom line:

This is fucking AMERICA, bitches. If you don't like gay sex, then DON'T HAVE IT. But that HARDLY gives you the right to deny gay people the right to marry other gay people. If you don't like gay sex, go to fucking Saudi Arabia where they behead gay people and you'll fit right in. You people talk all this shit about the Muslims and the ironic part is, without a language barrier and an ocean separating the two cultures, you two would find you have A LOT in common with one another.

And just to drive the point home, the people who speak out against homosexuality the most are usually the ones who get caught in public restrooms having gay meth-fueled sex. Need I state the obvious?

Go fuck yourselves and your bigotry. Jesus would be crying if he heard how self-righteously judgmental you all are - and all in His name, no less.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34900904


So you're saying that homosexuality is a choice because you live in America and it's not a birth defect then? And please do not insult my intelligence by saying that this does not affect me. Please scroll up and read my previous answer to this.
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


Lady Wolf, I read your previous comment to show you I am respectful.

But I'm not saying anyone is unintelligent here. No judgments here. But yes, it certainly affects you. You might have to meet some gay people who have been legally married at some point. You might have to tolerate some gay innuendo in a movie or in a TV show. You might have a friend of a friend of a friend who is gay, or you might receive status updates on your facebook page from gay people, or you might have an openly gay coworker to have to get along with on a daily basis.

All I said was no one is forcing you to have gay sex.

But a birth defect? I guess my main objection is that I really don't think being gay is a birth "defect"...

A brief story: when I was 7 years old, I knew a kid on my childhood baseball team who threw the ball "funny." "Like a girl," you could say. At least that's how my dad remembers it.

Well, this person pretended all throughout middle school that he thought girls were "hot" and that he would "totally" like to "do" this or that girl.

A few years later, when he was in college, this guy finally admitted he was gay. Big surprise, right?

The point being, we could tell from the WAY HE THREW A BASEBALL WHEN HE WAS SEVEN YEARS OLD that he was gay. Which, of course, lends support to an assumption in your argument that people are more or less "born" that way (and hence why he exhibited somewhat "homosexual" baseball throwing tendencies at such a young age).

Was he born "gay?" Sure. I have no doubt. I've known the guy my whole life. But the thing is, he's now a gastroenterologist. Whatever "defect" he might have had from birth, he has obviously proven his abilities and usefulness to the world.

What's worse is that once, while in middle school, and while I was depressed and pissed off at life (and feeling insecure, no doubt), I actually called him "gay." As a derogatory term, and to his face. That is one event in my life I am really ashamed of. I don't know why I did it, and it was stupid of me.

I apologized to him recently and he accepted my apology.

Digression aside, does he have a "birth defect?" My answer: not that I can tell. The way I see it, I'm the defective one for being an insecure idiot and insulting him for no reason.

All respect to you too, poster. If anything, I would just like to help people see the light and realize that all the animosity towards gay people is simply not worth it. It's not worth the effort. They are good people (and bad people) just like straight people you know. Look into your heart and accept your fellow man for what they are, good or bad, straight or gay. That's the true Christian attitude.
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Wasn't Jesus Christ the product of a rape? I always thought that it was odd that the Christian God raped a girl who was clearly promised to someone already to begat his son.... if it wasn't rape then clearly their holy consumation portrayed them as married and then she went on to commit adultery with Joseph.....
cookie
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
This is such BullShit. I love women, and that will never stop. I can't help that! it's natural. Its who I am. Fk others who disagree with it.
 Quoting: cookie 16561399


u a lez? butch or femme lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35316930


I would classify myself as lez but occasionally I do like men. However, I "prefer" women. To me, the argument that homosexuality is wrong is right in the naysayers eyes because In a lot of ways I can relate to that. Sometimes I am disgusted with straight relationships... One thing I've never been okay with is blow jobs. That is just ugh.. gross to me. So to someone who is not understanding of lesbians then something like "going down on a girl" or fking them with a strap on is going to appear unnatural because its NOT YOU. ITS NOT WHAT YOU* WANT...

That's the thing. Something like beastiality is "unnatural" because that is going against the animals being. The animal is in a entirely different category. It is sick and psychopathic if people do things like that. It is also unsafe.

Anyway, these kinds of arguments will always be unresolved because there are people who are simply set in their ways.

cheers.
cookie
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Besides.. hating on gay people is so 1995... *rolls eyes*
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2013 03:06 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
This is such BullShit. I love women, and that will never stop. I can't help that! it's natural. Its who I am. Fk others who disagree with it.
 Quoting: cookie 16561399


u a lez? butch or femme lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35316930


I would classify myself as lez but occasionally I do like men. However, I "prefer" women. To me, the argument that homosexuality is wrong is right in the naysayers eyes because In a lot of ways I can relate to that. Sometimes I am disgusted with straight relationships... One thing I've never been okay with is blow jobs. That is just ugh.. gross to me. So to someone who is not understanding of lesbians then something like "going down on a girl" or fking them with a strap on is going to appear unnatural because its NOT YOU. ITS NOT WHAT YOU* WANT...

That's the thing. Something like beastiality is "unnatural" because that is going against the animals being. The animal is in a entirely different category. It is sick and psychopathic if people do things like that. It is also unsafe.

Anyway, these kinds of arguments will always be unresolved because there are people who are simply set in their ways.

cheers.
 Quoting: cookie 16561399


oh cool yeh ive never been turned on by a human man so im lez. People are so fucking judgemental. Bestiality is rape coz an animal cant consent o.O thats what i always say to welsh people.
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2013 03:07 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Besides.. hating on gay people is so 1995... *rolls eyes*
 Quoting: cookie 16561399


LOOOOOLLLL
Rising Son (OP)
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02/28/2013 03:08 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Wasn't Jesus Christ the product of a rape? I always thought that it was odd that the Christian God raped a girl who was clearly promised to someone already to begat his son.... if it wasn't rape then clearly their holy consumation portrayed them as married and then she went on to commit adultery with Joseph.....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4225950


If you would like to argue semantics with God, then be my guest. I'm not sure how well that will work out for you. If you actually read the bible, you would know that the Holy Spirit descended upon Mary, and Jesus was conceived. There was no traditional human sex or anything like that. At this point, Joseph and Mary were NOT married, they were only betrothed to be married.

Last Edited by Rising Son on 02/28/2013 03:10 AM
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Wasn't Jesus Christ the product of a rape? I always thought that it was odd that the Christian God raped a girl who was clearly promised to someone already to begat his son.... if it wasn't rape then clearly their holy consumation portrayed them as married and then she went on to commit adultery with Joseph.....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4225950


Bitch please. Its god, its legit.
moses767

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02/28/2013 03:11 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
I hear often from gay rights activists that Jesus Christ never spoke out about homosexuality or that He never mentioned sexual orientation. This is to set the record straight, so that those with an agenda can stop claiming things they know nothing about.

This first passage is Jesus Christ speaking out against homosexuality. Notice that He differentiates between adultery and sexual immorality - this is important to note because the term 'homosexuality' was not common during His time obviously, so He used the term sexual immorality - separate from adultery - to encompass homosexuality and any other sexual wickedness that is immoral:

Mark 7:21-22

"For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly."

This next passage is Jesus' affirmation of the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman. He even goes as far as referencing the story of Creation in which God created male and female. Notice how He specifies a man and wife, not a man and his partner or a woman and her partner:

Matthew 19:4-5

"Haven't you read," He replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?"

So, do not let anyone tell you that Jesus Christ never spoke out against homosexuality, and that He didn't support traditional marriage. Furthermore, it is not possible for you to be a gay Christian. That is the same thing as claiming to be a Christian thief - if you are unrepentant for your sin and you continue that sin in ignorance of Jesus' teachings, you are a walking contradiction.

With all of this being said, it is wrong to cast judgment on others if we ourselves are in need of judgment. However, it is also wrong to support and sponsor immorality while at the same time denigrating the traditional definition of marriage, as Jesus taught us. We all should love homosexuals as we love each other, and in that love, we should yearn to help them overcome their illness of the mind.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Sorry but homosexuality is not only an illness of the mind; it is a great spiritual sickness and perversion that decimates and contaminates the soul and spirit. And it stains a persons soul and spirit like no other sin. And this abomination can only be cured and washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ; once a person truly repents of their sins and come all the way to God.

Nethertheless, God has truly given you some very valuable insight on this subject and may God continue to bless you in your understanding of this.

Last Edited by moses767 on 02/28/2013 03:13 AM
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2013 03:14 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
I hear often from gay rights activists that Jesus Christ never spoke out about homosexuality or that He never mentioned sexual orientation. This is to set the record straight, so that those with an agenda can stop claiming things they know nothing about.

This first passage is Jesus Christ speaking out against homosexuality. Notice that He differentiates between adultery and sexual immorality - this is important to note because the term 'homosexuality' was not common during His time obviously, so He used the term sexual immorality - separate from adultery - to encompass homosexuality and any other sexual wickedness that is immoral:

Mark 7:21-22

"For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly."

This next passage is Jesus' affirmation of the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman. He even goes as far as referencing the story of Creation in which God created male and female. Notice how He specifies a man and wife, not a man and his partner or a woman and her partner:

Matthew 19:4-5

"Haven't you read," He replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?"

So, do not let anyone tell you that Jesus Christ never spoke out against homosexuality, and that He didn't support traditional marriage. Furthermore, it is not possible for you to be a gay Christian. That is the same thing as claiming to be a Christian thief - if you are unrepentant for your sin and you continue that sin in ignorance of Jesus' teachings, you are a walking contradiction.

With all of this being said, it is wrong to cast judgment on others if we ourselves are in need of judgment. However, it is also wrong to support and sponsor immorality while at the same time denigrating the traditional definition of marriage, as Jesus taught us. We all should love homosexuals as we love each other, and in that love, we should yearn to help them overcome their illness of the mind.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Sorry but homosexuality is not only an illness of the mind; it is a great spiritual sickness and perversion that decimates and contaminates the soul and spirit. And it stains a persons soul and spirit like no other sin. And this abomination can only be cured and washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ; once a person truly repents of their sins and come all the way to God.
 Quoting: moses767


I honestly doubt jesus gives a shit what people wanna do in their sex life. As long as its 18+ and not a sheep.
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2013 03:23 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
This is such BullShit. I love women, and that will never stop. I can't help that! it's natural. Its who I am. Fk others who disagree with it.
 Quoting: cookie 16561399


u a lez? butch or femme lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35316930


I would classify myself as lez but occasionally I do like men. However, I "prefer" women. To me, the argument that homosexuality is wrong is right in the naysayers eyes because In a lot of ways I can relate to that. Sometimes I am disgusted with straight relationships... One thing I've never been okay with is blow jobs. That is just ugh.. gross to me. So to someone who is not understanding of lesbians then something like "going down on a girl" or fking them with a strap on is going to appear unnatural because its NOT YOU. ITS NOT WHAT YOU* WANT...

That's the thing. Something like beastiality is "unnatural" because that is going against the animals being. The animal is in a entirely different category. It is sick and psychopathic if people do things like that. It is also unsafe.

Anyway, these kinds of arguments will always be unresolved because there are people who are simply set in their ways.

cheers.
 Quoting: cookie 16561399


oh cool yeh ive never been turned on by a human man so im lez. People are so fucking judgemental. Bestiality is rape coz an animal cant consent o.O thats what i always say to welsh people.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35316930


LOL those fuckin animal fucker welsh
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2013 03:45 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Wasn't Jesus Christ the product of a rape? I always thought that it was odd that the Christian God raped a girl who was clearly promised to someone already to begat his son.... if it wasn't rape then clearly their holy consumation portrayed them as married and then she went on to commit adultery with Joseph.....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4225950


If you would like to argue semantics with God, then be my guest. I'm not sure how well that will work out for you. If you actually read the bible, you would know that the Holy Spirit descended upon Mary, and Jesus was conceived. There was no traditional human sex or anything like that. At this point, Joseph and Mary were NOT married, they were only betrothed to be married.
 Quoting: Rising Son


This ^

Rising Son, I liked reading this thread, vary insightful..

hiding
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2013 03:49 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
I hear often from gay rights activists that Jesus Christ never spoke out about homosexuality or that He never mentioned sexual orientation. This is to set the record straight, so that those with an agenda can stop claiming things they know nothing about.

This first passage is Jesus Christ speaking out against homosexuality. Notice that He differentiates between adultery and sexual immorality - this is important to note because the term 'homosexuality' was not common during His time obviously, so He used the term sexual immorality - separate from adultery - to encompass homosexuality and any other sexual wickedness that is immoral:

Mark 7:21-22

"For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly."

This next passage is Jesus' affirmation of the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman. He even goes as far as referencing the story of Creation in which God created male and female. Notice how He specifies a man and wife, not a man and his partner or a woman and her partner:

Matthew 19:4-5

"Haven't you read," He replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?"

So, do not let anyone tell you that Jesus Christ never spoke out against homosexuality, and that He didn't support traditional marriage. Furthermore, it is not possible for you to be a gay Christian. That is the same thing as claiming to be a Christian thief - if you are unrepentant for your sin and you continue that sin in ignorance of Jesus' teachings, you are a walking contradiction.

With all of this being said, it is wrong to cast judgment on others if we ourselves are in need of judgment. However, it is also wrong to support and sponsor immorality while at the same time denigrating the traditional definition of marriage, as Jesus taught us. We all should love homosexuals as we love each other, and in that love, we should yearn to help them overcome their illness of the mind.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Lets just get on with it, ok? If we spin our wheels over sexuality, we never get in the race to the prize.
Lady Wolf

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Are you OP, a closeted homo? In my opinion you must be. Why? You sit here typing all this bible blabble saying how Jesus preached against homos. Yet while you're typing your hatred for these people, you're thinking of them at the same time. This is the problem with christians and other religious fanatics. You people automatically judge others for what they do. If they're not directly causing problems in your life, why are they constantly on your mind? I too think that marriage should be with a man and a woman, but that's my choice. If others choose to do the opposite, then that friend, is their choice. It may not be right, but that is what they choose If it's not causing problems in my life, I don't give a damn what they do with their lives.

Bible verses from your own book that you people always seem to forget, or just choose to ignore.

1  Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2  For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mk. 4.24
3  And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4  Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5  Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
6  ¶ Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24175623




You clearly have not read through my entire original post nor the entire thread before posting. I ask that you do that before stating your case about how I am not to judge. By the way, the 'closet homo' accusation is childish, almost like saying "I know you are but what am I?" I am married with five kids, I need no validation from you.
 Quoting: Rising Son


And makes about as much sense as judging a rapist because you're secretly a closet rapist. Or thief, because you're really a closet thief. I could go on but you get the point. It's a straw man's argument at best.
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


Very true - thank you for pointing that out, I didn't even think of that :-)
 Quoting: Rising Son


You're welcome...I'm just so sick an tired of the same old arguments. I wish they'd come up with something new. That fact alone should tell you that they're grasping at straws trying to figure out a way to keep the life style that they know is wrong and against God's plan for mankind.
Real truth is self evident...
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2013 04:05 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 1:26-27 ESV

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Leviticus 18:22 ESV

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 ESV

Understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,


1 Corinthians 6:9 ESV

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality

Leviticus 20:13 ESV

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them


[link to www.openbible.info]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23083857


yes, jesus certainly qualified his support of traditional marriage to his inner circle after his encouragement of it. he wasn't obsessed by the subject of homosexuality (like so many self-repressed on here), in fact never once specifically refers to you folk's 'horrible sin' of homosexuality in the gospels, period.

your corinthians ref., btw, is not accurate. one term translated as 'soft' and sometimes 'effeminate' is most accurately, according to greek scholars, rendered as 'morally lax', nothing more. the other term's meaning is not known for certain, but is speculated to denote a male prostitute. anyway, that is neither here nor there on this thread, because it's about op putting words in jesus's mouth which he never uttered in any direct reference to homosexuality in the bible. in contrast to you guys, apparently he had completely different priorities, such as love and forgiveness.

in old testament, david loved jonathan passionately, and even had a ceremony to consecrate their love. no condemnation implied in that case, interestingly, though same sex unions have existed in practically every culture always.
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2013 04:07 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Listen guys....

Let he who has no sin cast the first stone...!!!

Do you understand this?

You is not your job to belittle, bully or fearmonger someone because of their sexual preferrence.

And yes, I FIRMLY believe Jesus Christ would say the same thing in this situation.

I don't care what your sexual preferrences are. That is between you and The Lord. I am cammanded to love my neighbor as myself. It doesn't say love your neighbor as yourself but not if he's gay....

Goodness, what is wrong with some people.!!!

Not one of you have ever towed the line. Not one...!!!

But you have the nerve to threaten someone else's salvation?

Condemn another to hell...?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33237816


Matthew 18:15-17

King James Version (KJV)

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Lady Wolf

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
This is such BullShit. I love women, and that will never stop. I can't help that! it's natural. Its who I am. Fk others who disagree with it.
 Quoting: cookie 16561399


Are you saying you love women as a man or as a women. If you're lesbian can I ask you a serious question? If a cure was found for the condition of homosexuality, would you take it if there were no risks or side effects just for the chance to be normal? Why or why not?

Last Edited by Lady Wolf on 02/28/2013 04:08 AM
Real truth is self evident...
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
about your leviticus abominations -- may one inquire, do you eat shrimp, clams or lobster? would you be willing to execute your child for having a tantrum?
Lady Wolf

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02/28/2013 04:19 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
What is it that bothers people so much about homosexuality? Seriously. Penis into vagina vs. penis into butthole. Or penis into mouth. Or whatever. Who cares?

There are so many places to start. Jesus also says "judge not lest ye be judged." Jesus said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

You people forget the real tenets of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Plus, here's the bottom line:

This is fucking AMERICA, bitches. If you don't like gay sex, then DON'T HAVE IT. But that HARDLY gives you the right to deny gay people the right to marry other gay people. If you don't like gay sex, go to fucking Saudi Arabia where they behead gay people and you'll fit right in. You people talk all this shit about the Muslims and the ironic part is, without a language barrier and an ocean separating the two cultures, you two would find you have A LOT in common with one another.

And just to drive the point home, the people who speak out against homosexuality the most are usually the ones who get caught in public restrooms having gay meth-fueled sex. Need I state the obvious?

Go fuck yourselves and your bigotry. Jesus would be crying if he heard how self-righteously judgmental you all are - and all in His name, no less.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34900904


So you're saying that homosexuality is a choice because you live in America and it's not a birth defect then? And please do not insult my intelligence by saying that this does not affect me. Please scroll up and read my previous answer to this.
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


Lady Wolf, I read your previous comment to show you I am respectful.

But I'm not saying anyone is unintelligent here. No judgments here. But yes, it certainly affects you. You might have to meet some gay people who have been legally married at some point. You might have to tolerate some gay innuendo in a movie or in a TV show. You might have a friend of a friend of a friend who is gay, or you might receive status updates on your facebook page from gay people, or you might have an openly gay coworker to have to get along with on a daily basis.

All I said was no one is forcing you to have gay sex.

But a birth defect? I guess my main objection is that I really don't think being gay is a birth "defect"...

A brief story: when I was 7 years old, I knew a kid on my childhood baseball team who threw the ball "funny." "Like a girl," you could say. At least that's how my dad remembers it.

Well, this person pretended all throughout middle school that he thought girls were "hot" and that he would "totally" like to "do" this or that girl.

A few years later, when he was in college, this guy finally admitted he was gay. Big surprise, right?

The point being, we could tell from the WAY HE THREW A BASEBALL WHEN HE WAS SEVEN YEARS OLD that he was gay. Which, of course, lends support to an assumption in your argument that people are more or less "born" that way (and hence why he exhibited somewhat "homosexual" baseball throwing tendencies at such a young age).

Was he born "gay?" Sure. I have no doubt. I've known the guy my whole life. But the thing is, he's now a gastroenterologist. Whatever "defect" he might have had from birth, he has obviously proven his abilities and usefulness to the world.

What's worse is that once, while in middle school, and while I was depressed and pissed off at life (and feeling insecure, no doubt), I actually called him "gay." As a derogatory term, and to his face. That is one event in my life I am really ashamed of. I don't know why I did it, and it was stupid of me.

I apologized to him recently and he accepted my apology.

Digression aside, does he have a "birth defect?" My answer: not that I can tell. The way I see it, I'm the defective one for being an insecure idiot and insulting him for no reason.

All respect to you too, poster. If anything, I would just like to help people see the light and realize that all the animosity towards gay people is simply not worth it. It's not worth the effort. They are good people (and bad people) just like straight people you know. Look into your heart and accept your fellow man for what they are, good or bad, straight or gay. That's the true Christian attitude.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34900904


I appreciate your respectful post and your kind words. I do not have a problem with homosexuals. What I DO have a problem with is that society has chosen to see this life style, birth defect, whatever you want to call it as something needing protection for calling it out for what it is. Abnormal. This is not personal. This is not about my being a bigot or being a "hater" or whatever the latest term is for anyone who disagrees with something. Let me ask you a question. Do you think your friend would accept a cure, if one were to be found and opt to have a normal life as a heterosexual? Do you think he enjoys being different? It's a serious question. I'd appreciate a serious response. From your previous response I feel that you'll be honest with me and willing to answer it.

From a Biblical view, men and women were created different for a reason. The marriage bed was created for a reason. The home was created with rules and guidelines to follow for a reason. Children were given a mother and father as role models for a reason. What makes man think that he can throw away the creator's blueprint for a well balanced life and basically go completely against God's plan? What arrogance! What complete and utter arrogance!
Real truth is self evident...
Lady Wolf

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02/28/2013 04:32 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 1:26-27 ESV

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Leviticus 18:22 ESV

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 ESV

Understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,


1 Corinthians 6:9 ESV

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality

Leviticus 20:13 ESV

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them


[link to www.openbible.info]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23083857


yes, jesus certainly qualified his support of traditional marriage to his inner circle after his encouragement of it. he wasn't obsessed by the subject of homosexuality (like so many self-repressed on here), in fact never once specifically refers to you folk's 'horrible sin' of homosexuality in the gospels, period.

your corinthians ref., btw, is not accurate. one term translated as 'soft' and sometimes 'effeminate' is most accurately, according to greek scholars, rendered as 'morally lax', nothing more. the other term's meaning is not known for certain, but is speculated to denote a male prostitute. anyway, that is neither here nor there on this thread, because it's about op putting words in jesus's mouth which he never uttered in any direct reference to homosexuality in the bible. in contrast to you guys, apparently he had completely different priorities, such as love and forgiveness.

in old testament, david loved jonathan passionately, and even had a ceremony to consecrate their love. no condemnation implied in that case, interestingly, though same sex unions have existed in practically every culture always.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30462077


ok now wait just a minute here. To love someone has nothing what so ever to do with disagreeing with them. And to forgive someone? To forgive means to pardon someone who is sorry for what they have done and who turns away from it and does not continue to do it and throw it in your face. I do not see how either of these two verbs have anything to do with the subject of this thread.

Just because I do not agree with what someone does. It does not mean I don't love that person. That's just it. Christians have been admonished, actually ORDERED by this very Jesus whom you toute had nothing against homosexuality, to preach the gospel to all the world. Those are our marching orders. Telling you something is a sin, IS love! It's not judgement. Any more than pulling you out of the way of an on-coming truck is judgement! I, the OP and others on here are simply telling you how GOD feels about what you're doing AND justifying in your own reprobate minds, is wrong. It is sin. If I were a thief and flaunting it in your face and showing you all of the goods I have robbed. Would you consider it judging me to tell me that what I was doing was wrong? Or against the law? Or would you expect me to see it as a friendly warning and admonishment to stop stealing things?

I think part of the problem is that people don't know the difference between loving admonition and judging. The two are very different things. I think it's time we learn the difference and stop calling an apple an orange.
Real truth is self evident...
Lady Wolf

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02/28/2013 04:37 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
I hear often from gay rights activists that Jesus Christ never spoke out about homosexuality or that He never mentioned sexual orientation. This is to set the record straight, so that those with an agenda can stop claiming things they know nothing about.

This first passage is Jesus Christ speaking out against homosexuality. Notice that He differentiates between adultery and sexual immorality - this is important to note because the term 'homosexuality' was not common during His time obviously, so He used the term sexual immorality - separate from adultery - to encompass homosexuality and any other sexual wickedness that is immoral:

Mark 7:21-22

"For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly."

This next passage is Jesus' affirmation of the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman. He even goes as far as referencing the story of Creation in which God created male and female. Notice how He specifies a man and wife, not a man and his partner or a woman and her partner:

Matthew 19:4-5

"Haven't you read," He replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?"

So, do not let anyone tell you that Jesus Christ never spoke out against homosexuality, and that He didn't support traditional marriage. Furthermore, it is not possible for you to be a gay Christian. That is the same thing as claiming to be a Christian thief - if you are unrepentant for your sin and you continue that sin in ignorance of Jesus' teachings, you are a walking contradiction.

With all of this being said, it is wrong to cast judgment on others if we ourselves are in need of judgment. However, it is also wrong to support and sponsor immorality while at the same time denigrating the traditional definition of marriage, as Jesus taught us. We all should love homosexuals as we love each other, and in that love, we should yearn to help them overcome their illness of the mind.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Sorry but homosexuality is not only an illness of the mind; it is a great spiritual sickness and perversion that decimates and contaminates the soul and spirit. And it stains a persons soul and spirit like no other sin. And this abomination can only be cured and washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ; once a person truly repents of their sins and come all the way to God.
 Quoting: moses767


I honestly doubt jesus gives a shit what people wanna do in their sex life. As long as its 18+ and not a sheep.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35316930


to doubt means to not be completely sure of something. I'd explore that a bit more if I were you;)
Real truth is self evident...
Lady Wolf

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02/28/2013 04:41 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Besides.. hating on gay people is so 1995... *rolls eyes*
 Quoting: cookie 16561399


LOOOOOLLLL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35316930


When did disagreement become hate? Do you know how flippantly that word is used now? How it's just carelessly tossed about as the latest "in" buzz word? Did you also know that in the Bible, Jesus talks about how if a man hates his brother it is no different than if he were to murder his brother? Cain hated Abel. Esau hated Jacob and the list goes on.

As for the rest of your statement. What does time have to do with what is right and what is wrong? If something is wrong. It is wrong. If you were to murder someone 20 years from now and someone were to call you out for it, is it ok because it's now 20 years into the future? Serious question if rhetorical.
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Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2013 04:41 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
God hates fags
Lady Wolf

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02/28/2013 04:46 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Wasn't Jesus Christ the product of a rape? I always thought that it was odd that the Christian God raped a girl who was clearly promised to someone already to begat his son.... if it wasn't rape then clearly their holy consumation portrayed them as married and then she went on to commit adultery with Joseph.....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4225950


If you would like to argue semantics with God, then be my guest. I'm not sure how well that will work out for you. If you actually read the bible, you would know that the Holy Spirit descended upon Mary, and Jesus was conceived. There was no traditional human sex or anything like that. At this point, Joseph and Mary were NOT married, they were only betrothed to be married.
 Quoting: Rising Son


And Mary GAVE her consent to the angel. Her words from Luke 1:38 "Behold the maidservant of the Lord! LET IT BE to me according to your word."

Consent does not = rape.

Last Edited by Lady Wolf on 02/28/2013 04:46 AM
Real truth is self evident...
Lady Wolf

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02/28/2013 04:53 AM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
God hates fags
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2251874


No he does not! He hates the sin. He hates what they're doing. He does not hate them. He can not abide by sin of ANY kind. That is why He felt it necessary to send his Son down to this planet to pay the penalty for ALL sin once and for all. The wages of sin is death. Those wages had to be paid to meet God's holy and righteous requirements. Why would he HATE the very sinner that He counted worthy for such a sacrifice? Why would He have His son die a torturous death on the cross for someone he hated??
Real truth is self evident...
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2013 05:21 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 1:26-27 ESV

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Leviticus 18:22 ESV

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 ESV

Understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,


1 Corinthians 6:9 ESV

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality

Leviticus 20:13 ESV

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them


[link to www.openbible.info]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23083857


yes, jesus certainly qualified his support of traditional marriage to his inner circle after his encouragement of it. he wasn't obsessed by the subject of homosexuality (like so many self-repressed on here), in fact never once specifically refers to you folk's 'horrible sin' of homosexuality in the gospels, period.

your corinthians ref., btw, is not accurate. one term translated as 'soft' and sometimes 'effeminate' is most accurately, according to greek scholars, rendered as 'morally lax', nothing more. the other term's meaning is not known for certain, but is speculated to denote a male prostitute. anyway, that is neither here nor there on this thread, because it's about op putting words in jesus's mouth which he never uttered in any direct reference to homosexuality in the bible. in contrast to you guys, apparently he had completely different priorities, such as love and forgiveness.

in old testament, david loved jonathan passionately, and even had a ceremony to consecrate their love. no condemnation implied in that case, interestingly, though same sex unions have existed in practically every culture always.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30462077


ok now wait just a minute here. To love someone has nothing what so ever to do with disagreeing with them. And to forgive someone? To forgive means to pardon someone who is sorry for what they have done and who turns away from it and does not continue to do it and throw it in your face. I do not see how either of these two verbs have anything to do with the subject of this thread.

Just because I do not agree with what someone does. It does not mean I don't love that person. That's just it. Christians have been admonished, actually ORDERED by this very Jesus whom you toute had nothing against homosexuality, to preach the gospel to all the world. Those are our marching orders. Telling you something is a sin, IS love! It's not judgement. Any more than pulling you out of the way of an on-coming truck is judgement! I, the OP and others on here are simply telling you how GOD feels about what you're doing AND justifying in your own reprobate minds, is wrong. It is sin. If I were a thief and flaunting it in your face and showing you all of the goods I have robbed. Would you consider it judging me to tell me that what I was doing was wrong? Or against the law? Or would you expect me to see it as a friendly warning and admonishment to stop stealing things?

I think part of the problem is that people don't know the difference between loving admonition and judging. The two are very different things. I think it's time we learn the difference and stop calling an apple an orange.
 Quoting: Lady Wolf



stealing harms others; loving the person of one's choice harms no one, makes the world a brighter place. apples and oranges, ms. wolf.
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2013 05:35 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
What is it that bothers people so much about homosexuality? Seriously. Penis into vagina vs. penis into butthole. Or penis into mouth. Or whatever. Who cares?

There are so many places to start. Jesus also says "judge not lest ye be judged." Jesus said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

You people forget the real tenets of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Plus, here's the bottom line:

This is fucking AMERICA, bitches. If you don't like gay sex, then DON'T HAVE IT. But that HARDLY gives you the right to deny gay people the right to marry other gay people. If you don't like gay sex, go to fucking Saudi Arabia where they behead gay people and you'll fit right in. You people talk all this shit about the Muslims and the ironic part is, without a language barrier and an ocean separating the two cultures, you two would find you have A LOT in common with one another.

And just to drive the point home, the people who speak out against homosexuality the most are usually the ones who get caught in public restrooms having gay meth-fueled sex. Need I state the obvious?

Go fuck yourselves and your bigotry. Jesus would be crying if he heard how self-righteously judgmental you all are - and all in His name, no less.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34900904


So you're saying that homosexuality is a choice because you live in America and it's not a birth defect then? And please do not insult my intelligence by saying that this does not affect me. Please scroll up and read my previous answer to this.
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


Lady Wolf, I read your previous comment to show you I am respectful.

But I'm not saying anyone is unintelligent here. No judgments here. But yes, it certainly affects you. You might have to meet some gay people who have been legally married at some point. You might have to tolerate some gay innuendo in a movie or in a TV show. You might have a friend of a friend of a friend who is gay, or you might receive status updates on your facebook page from gay people, or you might have an openly gay coworker to have to get along with on a daily basis.

All I said was no one is forcing you to have gay sex.

But a birth defect? I guess my main objection is that I really don't think being gay is a birth "defect"...

A brief story: when I was 7 years old, I knew a kid on my childhood baseball team who threw the ball "funny." "Like a girl," you could say. At least that's how my dad remembers it.

Well, this person pretended all throughout middle school that he thought girls were "hot" and that he would "totally" like to "do" this or that girl.

A few years later, when he was in college, this guy finally admitted he was gay. Big surprise, right?

The point being, we could tell from the WAY HE THREW A BASEBALL WHEN HE WAS SEVEN YEARS OLD that he was gay. Which, of course, lends support to an assumption in your argument that people are more or less "born" that way (and hence why he exhibited somewhat "homosexual" baseball throwing tendencies at such a young age).

Was he born "gay?" Sure. I have no doubt. I've known the guy my whole life. But the thing is, he's now a gastroenterologist. Whatever "defect" he might have had from birth, he has obviously proven his abilities and usefulness to the world.

What's worse is that once, while in middle school, and while I was depressed and pissed off at life (and feeling insecure, no doubt), I actually called him "gay." As a derogatory term, and to his face. That is one event in my life I am really ashamed of. I don't know why I did it, and it was stupid of me.

I apologized to him recently and he accepted my apology.

Digression aside, does he have a "birth defect?" My answer: not that I can tell. The way I see it, I'm the defective one for being an insecure idiot and insulting him for no reason.

All respect to you too, poster. If anything, I would just like to help people see the light and realize that all the animosity towards gay people is simply not worth it. It's not worth the effort. They are good people (and bad people) just like straight people you know. Look into your heart and accept your fellow man for what they are, good or bad, straight or gay. That's the true Christian attitude.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34900904


I appreciate your respectful post and your kind words. I do not have a problem with homosexuals. What I DO have a problem with is that society has chosen to see this life style, birth defect, whatever you want to call it as something needing protection for calling it out for what it is. Abnormal. This is not personal. This is not about my being a bigot or being a "hater" or whatever the latest term is for anyone who disagrees with something. Let me ask you a question. Do you think your friend would accept a cure, if one were to be found and opt to have a normal life as a heterosexual? Do you think he enjoys being different? It's a serious question. I'd appreciate a serious response. From your previous response I feel that you'll be honest with me and willing to answer it.

From a Biblical view, men and women were created different for a reason. The marriage bed was created for a reason. The home was created with rules and guidelines to follow for a reason. Children were given a mother and father as role models for a reason. What makes man think that he can throw away the creator's blueprint for a well balanced life and basically go completely against God's plan? What arrogance! What complete and utter arrogance!
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


Just for the record, I don't think that most people who oppose homosexuality actually "hate" gays or are "bigoted," and I don't think that way about you. A small minority of people actually "hate" gays, and the people who support gay rights often tend to focus on this minority to make their case for why the other side should be rejected.

But to answer your question - if I had to guess, I would think this person ( I don't talk to him much, but I guess we could be considered "friends") probably wished he could have been straight for a very long period of his life, but now probably has accepted it. But, of course, it's hard to tell. He's not exactly Mr. Gay Pride parade or anything like that, so despite his occasional effeminate tendencies, I certainly wouldn't describe him as being flamboyantly gay. It's possible you could characterize that as an example of him still being inwardly ashamed of himself, even to this day. But then again, it's also possible he just doesn't define himself by his sexuality, and isn't very political about his sexual orientation.

It's an interesting question you pose all the same. However, I think for many gay people, a "cure" could never retroactively resolve the hardship they experienced earlier in life, and thus, would probably be thought of as ineffective and pointless. Now, for those young men smack dab in the middle of being bullied in school for being effeminate and weird... I'm sure many would jump at the chance to swallow a pill or inject a shot that makes them attracted to women.

As for the part about men and women in the Bible, sure - men and women alone are able to procreate, and not same sex couples... but not everyone needs to procreate, straight or gay. It may seem arrogant now to make such a seemingly drastic change to marriage, but there have been many changes to marriage over the last two millennia which have radically reshaped marriage. Hell, even two hundred years ago women were considered property of their husbands! I would say that providing women the same rights as men in marriage has more radically altered the concept of marriage than allowing, as some states currently do, same sex couples the ability to marry.

But although we might not have changed each other's minds, I'm glad we could at least exchange a dialogue about it instead of crass insults and accusations. I admit when I'm not talking to individual people I get carried away a little myself. Don't we all? Haha. But go easy on your gay brothers and sisters! They are people too, with all their good and bad qualities, just trying to get by like the rest of us.
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02/28/2013 05:40 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
I hear often from gay rights activists that Jesus Christ never spoke out about homosexuality or that He never mentioned sexual orientation. This is to set the record straight, so that those with an agenda can stop claiming things they know nothing about.

This first passage is Jesus Christ speaking out against homosexuality. Notice that He differentiates between adultery and sexual immorality - this is important to note because the term 'homosexuality' was not common during His time obviously, so He used the term sexual immorality - separate from adultery - to encompass homosexuality and any other sexual wickedness that is immoral:

Mark 7:21-22

"For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly."

This next passage is Jesus' affirmation of the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman. He even goes as far as referencing the story of Creation in which God created male and female. Notice how He specifies a man and wife, not a man and his partner or a woman and her partner:

Matthew 19:4-5

"Haven't you read," He replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?"

So, do not let anyone tell you that Jesus Christ never spoke out against homosexuality, and that He didn't support traditional marriage. Furthermore, it is not possible for you to be a gay Christian. That is the same thing as claiming to be a Christian thief - if you are unrepentant for your sin and you continue that sin in ignorance of Jesus' teachings, you are a walking contradiction.

With all of this being said, it is wrong to cast judgment on others if we ourselves are in need of judgment. However, it is also wrong to support and sponsor immorality while at the same time denigrating the traditional definition of marriage, as Jesus taught us. We all should love homosexuals as we love each other, and in that love, we should yearn to help them overcome their illness of the mind.
 Quoting: Rising Son


I'm glad I live in America, where you can believe what you want to believe and I can believe what I want to believe. My inner truth does not agree with the truth you are being taught. I will cannot force you the learn differently and you cannot force me to change the color of my skin.
Bottleneck
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02/28/2013 05:43 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Great Post!
anom
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02/28/2013 07:06 AM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
RS: you are manipulating jesus words to see what you belief in it.

jesus dined with prostitutes...
taxcollectors.

anyway, it was jesus who told the crowd, throw the stone, if that is your right to do.

in case you really want to understand, u ned to understand sexual immoirality first... because marriage in the bible is more the the institution through law, it is the same law that says you are a sinner and deserves death.

jesus never never hated gays, would not even dislike them, would even join them for dinner.

because he came from their father in heaven.

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