Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others

interesting hypothesis. I'm not sure this is what i get out of this passage but it is an interesting alternative meaning.

Ok. That does make sense. Sort of a fly honey/vinegar analogy. So are you saying then that when Jesus told us how the harvest was plentiful and many workers were needed, that He was talking about telling people of His love for them and not telling people the truth about sin? You're saying that the Holy Spirit will eventually convict them of the sin in their lives? That makes sense too. However...again, how do you know that this thread is not doing just that? How do you know God is not using the OP to get this message out to those who need to hear it?

You spoke of many threads who are against homosexuality. I believe the threads you're referring to are more like "gay bashing" threads. I've seen them too and I too cringe when I read some of their inflammatory titles. But I would submit to you that this thread has more of a tone of love and Christian instruction to it than does a thread that is entitled, and I quote, "God hates fags." I'm sure you can see a stark contrast between the two.

All I'm saying is maybe we ought to not be so quick as to misjudge threads such as this one that seeks to only help in love. Tough love? Possibly, but still obviously posted in loving Christian correction.

A person can be lovingly wrong........lol. For a brother or sister to say that a homosexual can't be a christian is WRONG. A statement like this shuts the door in the face of all homosexuals.

Many homosexuals have come to Jesus and built a relationship with Him. What Jesus reveals to them about their sin is between that person and Jesus.

Jesus saved me while I was living in sin, and over many years helped me to change where change was needed. Many a good meaning christian would have pointed the finger at me and said "she's not saved" when in fact only the Lord knew the truth about my heart. In fact, I'm still changing! We all are! That's the whole point, being a christian is a life long process, or life long relationship with Jesus.

It's not a moment in time, it's a life long commitment and relationship with Him that grows, evolves and matures over a lifetime.

I did things years ago that I can't imagine doing today. I probably do things today that I won't be doing or saying years from now. It's a process, a marriage. Not a membership or ticket, or one moment in time.

It's about getting to know Him, growing in love with Him, learning how to be more like Him because you want to. It's about reaching higher, expanding your heart becasue when you get right down to it, all sin is a matter of the heart.

I feel like I'm just rambling now and not getting through to anyone, so I'll just stop. Have a blessed day:)

Ok, one last post then I'm done:)

I'll share with you guys something that I've learned over the years. Sin is all about the heart.......not a list of rules.

Let me explain.

I am by no means a perfect person, in fact.....if I were to examine my life, my thoughts, my actions, my words and compared them to Jesus Christ......I'm a vile and disgusting evil asshole.

Let's keep it real, ok? No candy coating, just the real deal.

I sin on a daily basis. Yea, choice words come out of my mouth almost daily.......and be sure I think them daily even if I don't say it.

Sure......a good looking man walks by, or on the tv and I sure do think "Well, check him out!"

I'm a smoker........I puff away all day long. I'm known to have a glass or two of wine and get pretty tipsy.

I get into arguments with all of my family, and sometimes I really get pissed off!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes I even hold a grudge for a day or two....cause I want to.

I've been known to take the larger piece of cake for myself, on occasion.

I speed when I'm driving, don't always wear my seatbelt, and have done much worse then that.

Ok, so we have established that I"m no saint here, but even still, I do have a close relationship with Jesus. Now, you know when I've had the boom lowered on my head? When I've been really out of line and He corrected me severely?

I'll tell you when........when I hurt someone, my brother or my sister. When I hurt them while being self-righteous. I felt justified, and as far as doctrine goe, I was 100% right. But, I hurt them, and as far as Jesus was concerned I was 100% wrong. So wrong in fact that He wouldn't even let me pray until I humbled myself before those people and apologized and made it right.

I'll tell you guys, the biggest sin of all is hurting others in the name of God. Using Him as a weapon against others is a terrible thing. Pushing people away from Him is incredibly hurtful because when you remove all the candy coating, we are all evil, vile assholes ourselves. One no better then the other when we compare ourselves to Jesus Christ.

It is by His grace, by His sacrifice, by His mercy, by His forgiveness that ANY of us make it to heaven because each and every one of us deserves to go straight to hell.

When we argue about doctrines, fight about verses and meanings, when we point out eachother's sins, when we put obstacles in the paths of the unbelievers.......we are doing the same thing the pharisees did, either knowingly or unknowingly.

I'm not calling anyone here a pharisee, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that we should all examine our own hearts and be careful of our words so that we don't become a pharisee in our hearts because we are all assholes and none of us should ever forget that.

My cousin told me what happened in her church years ago. Durring the service a homeless man walked in and sat down in one of the rows of benches and was listening to the sermon. He obviously had not bathed in a long time and yes he smelled bad. They actually asked him to leave. Yes, that really happened. He was escorted out.

I have no doubt that the wretched stench from the people who asked him to leave reached the nostrils of God in a profound way........even tho they were bathed, pretty, well dressed, and perfumed. What an abomination.

Ok........I'm now rambling on again. Now all that I've said.....if I have hurt anyone here, offended anyone here, or made anyone feel bad......please accept my apology. I am in no way trying to put anyone down or hurt anyone, just trying to show maybe another way of thinking about things. God bless everyone.......we are all assholes. :):)

my sweet christians, although i like the mails about the personal situations and my sympathy is there with the stories

u still didnt point me to where the gospel condems homosexuality, and as a result including me.

one said,if you want to heal of homosexuality you will, still my story of youth is a lot skipped when this dogma is told...see previous mails. i believe some can lead a destructive life of no sex ofcourse, which i also parted in once, and yes the energy goes to god, but there goes even more energy to god in the search when one enjoys things and they are taken from him, this will teach him to love another in spirit, not in words...

then enoch was taken in heaven, still he was a man, and the visions he received were of nature that thay were symbolic, even the nature of the fallen angels, which everybody thinks is leteral...heaven is not a place, so one doe snot go up, heaven always comes down, to be in heaven means being free of lifesturggle and sin, so if parables are received, like in those old times, everything was parable (jacobs dream, josephs dreams, faraos dreams, daniels dreams), and one comes to tell of them, they were not enjoying heaven, so they maybe so only one room in it, the story-room, the symbol room.

then even if everything around us point to a god, it is not lear which god, until logic can confirm the stories, there is something strange with logic, something the greatest scientist could not see, but in the end it confirms god, and aftr it it confirms the structure of the bible an other holy books, and explains the parables, still many try to find religion through a false faith, a faith that is not based on prooving god, but by guessing (testing) god.

all religions have miracles, and it is one reason why jesus was not accepted by the old faith of judeah, still it were his words and intentions that allowed people to see who he was, the miracles only pushed the attention into his direction. if miracles cant proof god, no book can do it, only logic, and the 4 corners of logic, can be found, through the desire to do it, this is called faith, but faith that is build on doubt, not on salvation.

Why won't this thread just die?

Want to bring up another thing. When something bad happens, someone says God is testing them. That means God controls evil and makes bad things happen. If that is the case then he is sending people to hell for things that he them do. People are born with brains that make it so they don't feel, so they end up killing people, and now those people go to hell? How is that fair.

Since Jesus Christ is God we don't know what he said. You're using quotes from jewish jesus. He is the highest jewish initiate who sold himself to the devil. I wouldn't trust that guy for anything.

actually thats religious dogma also, god is not really testing one, one is testing himself and god lets him take an automatic burden...religion as in generalisation has the instinct to always turn the role of god inversed...

god created creation by allowance, not by active invoking,
because his body with all in it, was allready there, still not there,

this lead to creation taken over gods dual face, or the angel of lie, (angels are pinrciples, not individuals, who seomtimes appeared literal, still as automatic being in the principle, to teach us, religion still hold on to those images, not the abstract force they are)
meaning creation are you, you test yourself,, creation has choice, you have choice, creation is jealous, you are jealous, still creation is also god that is indirect jealous, still he is not...

this is the paradox explaine din the books, not understood by religion nor by science, still it is logical.

it doesnt die, because i still love to discuss in my free time, and a lot of people here too i guess :D haha

Thank you!! That was very kind of you

Last Edited by Aware & Watching... on 03/03/2013 03:59 AM

*stomps on thread* Die thread! Die!

Ok. This is the only problem I have with this post. Because the Bible itself gives a list of the types of behaviors that can not be saved if the person doesn't repent or TURN AWAY from the sin. And whether we like it or not, this IS one of them! You can be loving all you want when pointing this out, as the OP of this thread has done and that's as we should be to our brothers and sisters in Christ. But to openly accept such sin in one who is claiming to be a Christian and saved is not only doing them a GREAT disservice, but it is setting a very bad example for anyone who is not saved and looking to get saved! It lowers the standards of salvation and creates a false doctrine within the church!

Jesus Himself called on his followers to gently but firmly rebuke the sins of each other within the church, and if that doesn't cause the Christian who is sinning to repent, He then tells us to go to that person with 2 or more others, (I don't quite recall how many) and each of them is to rebuke the sin and encourage the believer to repent from it. But if all else fails, He COMMANDS us to put that person from us! It is the doctrine of excommunication and it is both taught, and supported by the Bible and Jesus Christ Himself!

I'm sorry, but you and I are going to have to agree to disagree. Some things can be reached through compromise, but the Bible gives a list of what God consideres to be grave sins, and homosexuality is one that leaves little wiggle room or doubt!

You have not hurt me at all. In fact, I welcome a good healthy debate, so long as it is for a good reason and is kept civil which I feel our conversations have. You have a very loving and honest spirit. A rare gem these days. You are correct in that "For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" We all have our own paths to walk and it is all in His timing. If I have been in disagreement with anything you have said, it is only because I believe that certain things which can be soul destroying should never be compromised on. That is all and it IS a Biblical teaching as I already pointed out in my previous response to you.

But we have both said our pieces and we will either learn and grow from our differences of opinion or we will just be on our merry way and take with us anything we have gleaned from this discussion.

ladywolf, where does the bible give a list where some sins or tasks are more important then other sins and tasks ?

if you read the discussion before, and it is a argument never really replied to here, i explained that in torah all rules are of equal worth, in the gospel you have another set of rules based on blessing and curse, what has been set in front of you, one set of relative rules based on love.

so you can not say jesus said us that the rules of torah are spiritual for some things and not for others,when one chooses the blessing side...the torah condems and set free, so sin is another thing...based on the law, love god (he is all), he does not judge, he only judges indirect (through our choice, ignorance or growth, which is repenting , which is reflecting, which is growth in the spirit of one, which is understanding, which is love)

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sexual misbehaviour or immorality is not homosexuality.


if the gospels talks about marriage it does not say anything about other forms of love maybe in that place, still it always talks about all forms of love.

the gospels only know one sin, the sin agisnt the spirit (ignorance) still ignorance is part of all sins, if something hurts another and not restrained nor the way improved.

there is the perception that a stigma, a label , of sinner can not hurt, but stigmatising, through it being a judgement, is a theft of happiness when one receives it.

the punishment for theft is...

perception build this world, and the torah asks us to see how sinfull we all are, even in our perceptions...

still it frees us, it is a black white law,
the grey of everyday sin is not there, but in the message to love god as one, meaning you grow towards it or not, a relative.
and this relative is the only absolute.

homosexuality, a man with a man is not based on ignorance,
rape and other sexual cravings of hurted people, are base don ignorance of the other person.

I am sorry to say this Anonymous13636777 but this is an argument you can never ever win.

People use these tactics nowadays. They use religion which their lives already contradict, as means to attack others in a manner of self-righteousness.

You are speaking like a robot. You are using the law of averages to defend yourself. Because the type of thing you say is towards people who have contempt and hate. This means you are also projecting. This is how YOU feel, not us.

I have nothing to fear of homosexuals, nor need to hate. But what IS, is what IS.

So God telling us that sodomy is wrong, and us agreeing with this, is a way of Satan taking over our minds?

Perhaps, you should apply what you have said to yourself. Satanic lust has taken over the minds of men, and not only the mind but the heart also. This is why many people are fooled to believe that what they are experiencing is love. In this current era in which we live, neither man, nor woman, nor heterosexual or homosexual are experiencing love, but a deception of it. So few are the people that know what real love is you would be surprised how on earth people are getting married. But tell any couple this and they will spit in your face. They think they are really in love, but they don't know what real love is to make a comparison.

Man is ignorant in so many aspects of life. Homosexuality is ignorance, because it ignores the foundation of life. But do not get me wrong, heterosexuals are also ignorant in their acts.

The entire humanity has become deformed. We've let the ego into our lives so much, that now we even rationalize like demons. We make philosophy like demons.

Last Edited by Luke CosmicWalker on 03/03/2013 07:08 AM

if you build your judgements on assumptions, u condemn yourself, that is the logic behind it, this is ignorance of yourself in the other, and it is ignorance of gods care.

i am still asking where sodomy is identical to homosexuality, where the gospel takes some parts of the torah and others not...

my questions are not of the devil, but of care, and evverythign that talks for care, talks for go, it doesnt matter where he is in life and what he did before. if he talks in his name " i am one, search me" he does not talk for the devil.

how many more of these mails before some people do the effort to answer to their assumptions of devils and sinners.


ignorance of life, is ignoring life in the other.

What makes you think I am assuming. There you did it again, you used the law of averages to makes a statement, and it failed.

I do not speak out of belief. I do not speak out of assumption. I KNOW. The wise understand these statements. The wise understand how it is possible to Know things beyond this world. If you limit yourself to ordinary means, your knowledge will be limited. Since this is all sacred, I leave it for the wise to understand.

97% of the population have ruined themselves with beliefs. They know nothing. No scientist, nor devout knows. They only believe. What a waste of life...

Last Edited by Luke CosmicWalker on 03/03/2013 08:10 AM

yes, i know too, the law of god is relative for a human person. the law judges all, condemns all of theft and idolotry, based on th division of god, so there is a witness to your sin, and god not existing.

or the law sets free, one witness for himself, as the son was witness for the father so the father could be witness for the son, as one, and would judge no one.

i know you dont understand me, but you can recognise one who tells of care, and still tries people not to give up on care.

relativism is actually a good thing, or you would kill all earth because of sins and then say, when does the antichrist come.
(an absolute example)

There will come a time my friend...

A time so distant...

And it will be out of time...

When it all comes to a close, it will open...

Know you shall what I mean, but the bliss will make neither of us care who was right or who was wrong soo long ago...

For whether heterosexual or homosexual, all will return to the starting point...

And then they shall see, both lived their lives so wrongly...

But it will matter not, for the dream will have ended and life will have begun...

Last Edited by Luke CosmicWalker on 03/03/2013 08:24 AM

.

Last Edited by Luke CosmicWalker on 03/03/2013 08:22 AM

now you say something of value, now there is something of care in your words :)

if 97 procent of the world thinks wrong, it means that god ordained it, wouldnt it also mean he will have mercy ?

god doe snot give stones, when he is asked bread,
but he certainly gives impatience...

we all think to know, this is why jesus said: if one talks for me, i am one. this is the absolute that shapes the relative,
and the relative has many faces of good and wrong,
still one has to avoid wrong. and this sentence is logic, not one of miracles and figures, it doesnt have the name jesus, it has the name, i am one.

so what is wrong ? the opposite direction, not one moment, directon of caring.

Unfortunately God did not ordain it. Nevertheless, due to free will and other forces, the 97% are wrong.

then you have a lazy god. if he can not decide what happens in his belly, he sure will not decide what happens in his mind.

My God and your God is the same.

It is humanity that is lazy. God give free will and men be lazy with it. So lazy in fact, that only 3% of the class will be graduating from life.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" ~ Proverb

Contrary to popular belief, we did not come to this world, to fulfill our desires, to make a family, a home, a business, be socially popular, be entertained, demand our wishes to be met by God and not believe in Him if not fulfilled.

There is another purpose to our existence.

Last Edited by Luke CosmicWalker on 03/03/2013 08:59 AM

yes ofcourse there is another purpose, for his glory means, for his reason, it is the belly that allows the mind to be,
god needs us to have the reference of will, the arc with the two angels, this life is the carrier of logic, and when logic sees the only possibility it allows god to be himself, and it gives god a choice, indirect, because who who lives in heaven can not leave it.

but that only 3 % would be saved, i dont know which bible you read, or which logic you attend, but i am sure there is a difference between those that know before and those that know after. the pharisee maybe did not come into the kingdom, but i didnt hear jesus say the garden was closed for pharisees that wanted to wash themselves white as to one day yes enter the kingdom.

people see so much evil that in the end nobody would be saved,
i dont agree with this, this world is not of satan but of god, and satan is just the deceiver, and has his own world, which is included as pit in the other.

It is a sad fact but true :-(

If this world was a world of God, you would not see the world wars occurring. You would not see the children in Gaza suffering. You would not see people dying in Syria. You would not see the brutality in the United States. You wouldn't see so many confusion in people's minds regarding religion.

Unfortunately, this world is currently overrun by evil. It doesn't take a lot to figure that out.

People have this in their psychology though, like this can't be happening to this many people.

Like a class at school that can't believe that all the students will be failing, yet they fsil. Or a group of protesters who think that so many people can't be arrested, yet they are.

"strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it" ~Matthew 7:14

It turns out when They say few, they really mean it. It's so few... :-(

On the close, shall it become a world of God...

Last Edited by Luke CosmicWalker on 03/03/2013 09:17 AM

yes, but what you dont seem to understand is that a lost sheep can become the small entrance, we dont stay the same person, we change ito the entrance, this is why the old is judges , and the new freed, and the only one who enters the kingdom is god, or is your will different from him in heaven you think ?

this is what marriage means...the man that controls his wife, so the child can integrate the past (old sheep) woman, into the goal (man) and becomes it in white.

still if this world is in god, then god ordaines it, and god does not see evil but choice in himself.

god is not subject to a an abstract as satan, an angel is a power without consciesness. for children it has a figure like appaerence, but in its being it is without knowing, just a tool of god.

god will not allow evil, an then doom his own consiousness in him, he will save it by evolving it, or when it doesnt want to come back, let it be none.

it means that the way is always relative. so there is no so much evil as you think in mens souls, many are children defending their right to exist, nothing else.

if one can not protect himself first, he can protect another.
this is how most people react.

Preaching Against=Judge Others
The entire Subject is moot.

i meant if one can not protect himself, he can NOT protect very well others. and this inapacity gives evil a face.