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BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information

 
*Rick Grimes*

User ID: 14560333
United States
03/01/2013 11:29 AM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
...


Yes we know people died. I watched on TV as men jumped to their deaths, I actually talked to families who had lost fathers and other family members there.

When a bunch of people die, there's usually no question about it. Whether you believe it was a conspiracy or you actually swallowed the boxcutter story, there's no doubt that real people actually died in that event.

Sandy Hook is very weird, it's not clear that anyone died.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33389306


So everytime there is a tragedy, they need to pull all the bodies out into the open for a photo op so people will believe the story?

I for one, am very glad I never saw any of those poor kids bodies.
 Quoting: *Rick Grimes*


It's not a matter of displaying them to satisfy my curiosity or yours.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33389306


"Rick Grimes" knows that. His overlords just told him to use Diversion number 493: "Imply or announce that those asking for proof just want to see dead children. That should shut them up."

The "Rick Grimes" type is very transparent.

propoganda
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35331799


The funny thing is, you don't even how idiotic this post proves you are.

:)
The Sonic Dreamer

User ID: 19453308
United States
03/01/2013 11:54 AM
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So everytime there is a tragedy, they need to pull all the bodies out into the open for a photo op so people will believe the story?

I for one, am very glad I never saw any of those poor kids bodies.
 Quoting: *Rick Grimes*


It's not a matter of displaying them to satisfy my curiosity or yours.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33389306


"Rick Grimes" knows that. His overlords just told him to use Diversion number 493: "Imply or announce that those asking for proof just want to see dead children. That should shut them up."

The "Rick Grimes" type is very transparent.

propoganda
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35331799


The funny thing is, you don't even how idiotic this post proves you are.

:)
 Quoting: *Rick Grimes*


Actually, I thought it was pretty clear evidence of either your idiocy, or your role as a shill.
Currently working on:
Bach: Invention No. 1
Joplin: Maple Leaf Rag
Mendelssohn: Tarantella Op.102 no.3
Mendelssohn: Venetian Boat Song Op. 19 no. 6 (both from 'Songs Without Words')
Dr. Charles Norris

User ID: 15701762
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03/01/2013 11:57 AM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
I guess some people don't need ANY evidence AT ALL to prove that a crime happened! We have been shown NO EVIDENCE AT ALL! Did you see any child injured? Blood or ANYTHING for that fact from 27 dead people? Any signs of choas from parents not knowing what happened to their baby???? I sure the hell know if my baby was at school and might be hurt NOBODY would keep me away from that school. They held the "bodies" in the school for hours? WTF

No way a couple Police officers called for NO AMBULANCES to the school at all with 27 injured people???? And checked for pulses in a matter of minutes? But why wouldn't they call ambulances as soon as they heard Gun Fire? Why not call for EMS when they saw the Principle and teacher at the FRONT of the building?? They would have seen them BEFORE the kids but I guess they didn't need any Medical attention either right?
Are people really this brain washed that they don't see what's right in front of them? I honestly don't know if some people really did die but I do know that everything is a lie we have been told and shown and you have to be really ignorant not to see it.






I guess none of you dumbfucks has ever seen a shooting victim laying in the street for hours while the crime scene is investigated?

it happens everyday, dozens of times a day in the US

learn reality
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34464973

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12187143



and ... when they show you the bloody crime scene in all its glory then you would go on to

'well then what about _____________'

and then when that was proven to you, youd go on to

'well then what about _____________'

and then when that was proven to you, youd go on to

'well then what about _____________'

and so on and so on


all law enforcement investigations are a matter of public record once the case is closed. Youll be able to see the crime scene photos at some point. And then youll probably say they were faked, right?



Some things in this world are conspiracies and there are crimes that go hidden and unpunished. Most events, massacres, big news events however are not. Youve got to find out what is and what is not. That process done rationally DOES NOT start with taking a view that everything is a lie and must be proven otherwise. The rational approach starts from a neutral view. Some of you take the 'everything big is a lie' approach and it screws your world up. Then again there are those who dont truly believe what theyre typing, and type lies on purpose - ie. the disinfo agents.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34464973


shill
*Rick Grimes*

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03/01/2013 12:08 PM
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It's not a matter of displaying them to satisfy my curiosity or yours.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33389306


"Rick Grimes" knows that. His overlords just told him to use Diversion number 493: "Imply or announce that those asking for proof just want to see dead children. That should shut them up."

The "Rick Grimes" type is very transparent.

propoganda
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35331799


The funny thing is, you don't even how idiotic this post proves you are.

:)
 Quoting: *Rick Grimes*


Actually, I thought it was pretty clear evidence of either your idiocy, or your role as a shill.
 Quoting: The Sonic Dreamer


Then you join this idiot.

"Someone disagrees with me, they must be a shill because I am a genius who knows all truth"

lol
blind squirrel

User ID: 31185579
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03/01/2013 01:58 PM

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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
bump
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day!"
Gladio

User ID: 22439147
United States
03/01/2013 02:30 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
The central question raised in this thread is who assessed all 26 victims to be beyond recussitation. Also, how long did that process take?

Here's a New York Times article that features interviews with the first five officers in the building:
[link to www.nytimes.com]

Excerpt:

"They entered the front lobby and saw the first bodies, those of Dawn Hochsprung, the principal, they would later learn, and Mary Sherlach, the school psychologist.

You saw them lifeless, laying down,” Officer Penna recalled. “For a split second, your mind says could this be a mock crime scene, could this be fake, but in the next split second, you’re saying, there is no way. This is real.” "


Okay, they saw them lifeless and laying down. Did they immediately check their condition? How long before it was determined they were dead? it doesn't say anything about evisceration, incineration, or decapitation.

Later in the same article:

"Officer Penna, who was the first officer to enter the second room, found a girl standing alone amid the bodies. She appeared to be in shock, and was covered in blood, but had not been injured. He, not knowing the gunman had been found, told her to stay put."

"He ran into the next classroom and saw the dead gunman, with Officers Chapman and Smith standing nearby. State troopers and other officers were now flooding in. Officer Penna returned to the second classroom, his rifle slung around his chest, grabbed the uninjured girl by the arm and ran with her out to a triage area set up in the parking lot."

So he runs in and finds the dead gunman and the officers "standing nearby." STANDING NEARBY! Not like there's a lot going on, eh fellas? I assume you already checked all six dead kids plus two adults in Soto's room and pronounced them all dead. And don't forget about all the victims next door in Rousseau's room. Wow you guys are fast.

There are so many holes in this story it ain't even funny.
Dr. Charles Norris

User ID: 15701762
United States
03/01/2013 02:37 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
The central question raised in this thread is who assessed all 26 victims to be beyond recussitation. Also, how long did that process take?

Here's a New York Times article that features interviews with the first five officers in the building:
[link to www.nytimes.com]

Excerpt:

"They entered the front lobby and saw the first bodies, those of Dawn Hochsprung, the principal, they would later learn, and Mary Sherlach, the school psychologist.

You saw them lifeless, laying down,” Officer Penna recalled. “For a split second, your mind says could this be a mock crime scene, could this be fake, but in the next split second, you’re saying, there is no way. This is real.” "


Okay, they saw them lifeless and laying down. Did they immediately check their condition? How long before it was determined they were dead? it doesn't say anything about evisceration, incineration, or decapitation.

Later in the same article:

"Officer Penna, who was the first officer to enter the second room, found a girl standing alone amid the bodies. She appeared to be in shock, and was covered in blood, but had not been injured. He, not knowing the gunman had been found, told her to stay put."

"He ran into the next classroom and saw the dead gunman, with Officers Chapman and Smith standing nearby. State troopers and other officers were now flooding in. Officer Penna returned to the second classroom, his rifle slung around his chest, grabbed the uninjured girl by the arm and ran with her out to a triage area set up in the parking lot."

So he runs in and finds the dead gunman and the officers "standing nearby." STANDING NEARBY! Not like there's a lot going on, eh fellas? I assume you already checked all six dead kids plus two adults in Soto's room and pronounced them all dead. And don't forget about all the victims next door in Rousseau's room. Wow you guys are fast.

There are so many holes in this story it ain't even funny.
 Quoting: Gladio


later on that uninjured girl was pronounced dead
Gladio

User ID: 22439147
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03/01/2013 02:44 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
The central question raised in this thread is who assessed all 26 victims to be beyond recussitation. Also, how long did that process take?

Here's a New York Times article that features interviews with the first five officers in the building:
[link to www.nytimes.com]

Excerpt:

"They entered the front lobby and saw the first bodies, those of Dawn Hochsprung, the principal, they would later learn, and Mary Sherlach, the school psychologist.

You saw them lifeless, laying down,” Officer Penna recalled. “For a split second, your mind says could this be a mock crime scene, could this be fake, but in the next split second, you’re saying, there is no way. This is real.” "


Okay, they saw them lifeless and laying down. Did they immediately check their condition? How long before it was determined they were dead? it doesn't say anything about evisceration, incineration, or decapitation.

Later in the same article:

"Officer Penna, who was the first officer to enter the second room, found a girl standing alone amid the bodies. She appeared to be in shock, and was covered in blood, but had not been injured. He, not knowing the gunman had been found, told her to stay put."

"He ran into the next classroom and saw the dead gunman, with Officers Chapman and Smith standing nearby. State troopers and other officers were now flooding in. Officer Penna returned to the second classroom, his rifle slung around his chest, grabbed the uninjured girl by the arm and ran with her out to a triage area set up in the parking lot."

So he runs in and finds the dead gunman and the officers "standing nearby." STANDING NEARBY! Not like there's a lot going on, eh fellas? I assume you already checked all six dead kids plus two adults in Soto's room and pronounced them all dead. And don't forget about all the victims next door in Rousseau's room. Wow you guys are fast.

There are so many holes in this story it ain't even funny.
 Quoting: Gladio


later on that uninjured girl was pronounced dead
 Quoting: Dr. Charles Norris


I think you're thinking of a different girl, also mentioned in the NYT piece.

Excerpt:

"The officers searched the room for any other gunmen, then began searching for signs of life among the children. One little girl had a pulse and was breathing. Officer Chapman cradled her in his arms and ran with her outside, to an ambulance. Officer Chapman, a parent himself, tried to comfort her. “You’re safe now; your parents love you,” he recalled saying. She did not survive."

The blood covered, uninjured girl brought out to the triage by Officer Penna; she might be the same one talked about by the Reverend ('I'm okay, mommy, but my friends are dead)
Dr. Charles Norris

User ID: 15701762
United States
03/01/2013 02:52 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
The central question raised in this thread is who assessed all 26 victims to be beyond recussitation. Also, how long did that process take?

Here's a New York Times article that features interviews with the first five officers in the building:
[link to www.nytimes.com]

Excerpt:

"They entered the front lobby and saw the first bodies, those of Dawn Hochsprung, the principal, they would later learn, and Mary Sherlach, the school psychologist.

You saw them lifeless, laying down,” Officer Penna recalled. “For a split second, your mind says could this be a mock crime scene, could this be fake, but in the next split second, you’re saying, there is no way. This is real.” "


Okay, they saw them lifeless and laying down. Did they immediately check their condition? How long before it was determined they were dead? it doesn't say anything about evisceration, incineration, or decapitation.

Later in the same article:

"Officer Penna, who was the first officer to enter the second room, found a girl standing alone amid the bodies. She appeared to be in shock, and was covered in blood, but had not been injured. He, not knowing the gunman had been found, told her to stay put."

"He ran into the next classroom and saw the dead gunman, with Officers Chapman and Smith standing nearby. State troopers and other officers were now flooding in. Officer Penna returned to the second classroom, his rifle slung around his chest, grabbed the uninjured girl by the arm and ran with her out to a triage area set up in the parking lot."

So he runs in and finds the dead gunman and the officers "standing nearby." STANDING NEARBY! Not like there's a lot going on, eh fellas? I assume you already checked all six dead kids plus two adults in Soto's room and pronounced them all dead. And don't forget about all the victims next door in Rousseau's room. Wow you guys are fast.

There are so many holes in this story it ain't even funny.
 Quoting: Gladio


later on that uninjured girl was pronounced dead
 Quoting: Dr. Charles Norris


I think you're thinking of a different girl, also mentioned in the NYT piece.

Excerpt:

"The officers searched the room for any other gunmen, then began searching for signs of life among the children. One little girl had a pulse and was breathing. Officer Chapman cradled her in his arms and ran with her outside, to an ambulance. Officer Chapman, a parent himself, tried to comfort her. “You’re safe now; your parents love you,” he recalled saying. She did not survive."

The blood covered, uninjured girl brought out to the triage by Officer Penna; she might be the same one talked about by the Reverend ('I'm okay, mommy, but my friends are dead)
 Quoting: Gladio


from what I understood no witnesses that saw lanza survived.....

if this girl did survive then we have a witness....
pinkpixiexx
Collecting stardust

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03/01/2013 07:32 PM

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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
In Dunblane massacre I believe the children who were killed were not rushed to hospital either and it took several hours to identify and inform parents of children who died.

...
 Quoting: pinkpixiexx


it exists also theory about Dunblane that talk about hoax.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Andy Murray (the tennis player) didnt even remember this.
and he was in the class.


so i dont know if it's a good example to compare with.

...
 Quoting: Fred 32225240

Interesting!! I hadn't really followed Dunblane, being here in the 'states. Sounds like that's a total hoax too, if they can't find any particular known people who died in the Dunblane incident.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33389306


It wasn't a hoax..the dead children were all accounted for..and Andy Murray was not in the class...he was older and in a different class and hid under a table...he just doesn't talk about it but does mention it in his book...rolleyes

I do actually live in UK!
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace"

"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."

“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”
pinkpixiexx
Collecting stardust

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03/01/2013 07:39 PM

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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
In Dunblane massacre I believe the children who were killed were not rushed to hospital either and it took several hours to identify and inform parents of children who died.

...
 Quoting: pinkpixiexx


it exists also theory about Dunblane that talk about hoax.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Andy Murray (the tennis player) didnt even remember this.
and he was in the class.

so i dont know if it's a good example to compare with.

The best to compare is Columbine.
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]


and it really dont look like Sandy Hook.
 Quoting: Fred 32225240


Ok...I just want to say....that wiki link you gave repeats almost word for word the article I quoted. No where does it say Andy murray didn't remember this...and he was NOT in the class that was shot!

the theory is not that it was a hoax...but more to do with the possible cover up of the fact that police did not act on many complaints made by parents about Hamilton's behaviour with children before the incident..and that he was still able to keep his license.


I have offered an example as comparison for the questions people are stating here about Sand Hook....you say it is not a good example because might be a hoax...but your link to wiki did not back up your claim...Dunblane has never been considered a hoax.

I'm just trying to be analytical and pointing out that what everyone is saying that all the children would have been taken to hospital is not true. They focus first on the injured but alive in these situations. This is evidence that SH is not unique in this action.
 Quoting: pinkpixiexx


sorry, it's me, sometime i look "brutal", but only because i speak english like a cow.

so, yes.. all i wanted to say is: sometime to take a "contested" analogy could be counterproductive.
(look what happens when people take 9/11 in example to talk about Sandy Hook)
 Quoting: Fred-S


but my point was that it isn't contested!!...did you not read exactly what I said. The shooting incident was not contested....but the police allowing the guy who did the shooting to keep his gun license was questioned.

Please don't start trying to turn every shooting incident in to a conspiracy...it's just too much...it just becomes an alternative insanity!..I understand that my comparison does not fit in with what you all want to see/...but you can't dismiss it by saying it also was a hoax...it's just not so!
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace"

"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."

“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”
Gladio

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03/01/2013 07:55 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
Shills are worked up over this issue of pronouncement of death of the 26 victims and the apparent lack of recussitation.

Who pronounced 26 victims dead? How long did that take? Was there any attempt at recussitation with any of the 26?
Anonymous Coward
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Germany
03/01/2013 07:59 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
lol there were not 26 dead at all..

Or would they kill their own family members?

Here the Sandy hook hoax posterchild V.Soto all in one picture with illuminati Greenberg Family:

[link to img685.imageshack.us]

and the superintendend for Newtown schools:

[link to img15.imageshack.us]


Greenberg Illuminati Zionist Actor family
Fred-S

User ID: 33015295
Switzerland
03/01/2013 08:04 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
but my point was that it isn't contested!!...did you not read exactly what I said. The shooting incident was not contested....but the police allowing the guy who did the shooting to keep his gun license was questioned.

Please don't start trying to turn every shooting incident in to a conspiracy...it's just too much...it just becomes an alternative insanity!..I understand that my comparison does not fit in with what you all want to see/...but you can't dismiss it by saying it also was a hoax...it's just not so!
 Quoting: pinkpixiexx


no..no.. you are right.
but i prefer to look at event with "quite" not contested, slightly contested, moderately contested, to highly contested. And not in binary mode: contested or not.

Maybe Dunblane is "slightly contested"
Columbine is "not" contested.
and Port Arthur massacre "moderately" contested.

but maybe i am totally wrong because i didnt studied well all those events.

i am sorry if you took badly what i've said, because your posts look wise, interesting and balanced.
Fred-S

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Switzerland
03/01/2013 08:06 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
lol there were not 26 dead at all..

Or would they kill their own family members?

Here the Sandy hook hoax posterchild V.Soto all in one picture with illuminati Greenberg Family:

[link to img685.imageshack.us]

and the superintendend for Newtown schools:

[link to img15.imageshack.us]


Greenberg Illuminati Zionist Actor family
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35359786


[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Fred-S

User ID: 33015295
Switzerland
03/01/2013 08:15 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
Shills are worked up over this issue of pronouncement of death of the 26 victims and the apparent lack of recussitation.

Who pronounced 26 victims dead? How long did that take? Was there any attempt at recussitation with any of the 26?
 Quoting: Gladio


two kids looked enough alive to be send to hospital. (but die)

and the "playing dead" girl covered in blood from head to toe... -> not send to hospital.

Law enforcement confirmed in a press briefing that 18 children died at the scene, 2 children were pronounced dead at the hospital, and 6 adults were pronounced dead at the scene. They confirmed that 1 person was injured and survived. Lieutenant Paul Vance said that first responders received crisis counseling due to the gruesome nature of the crime scene.

[link to www.thejanedough.com]
Dr. Charles Norris

User ID: 15701762
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03/01/2013 08:21 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
Shills are worked up over this issue of pronouncement of death of the 26 victims and the apparent lack of recussitation.

Who pronounced 26 victims dead? How long did that take? Was there any attempt at recussitation with any of the 26?
 Quoting: Gladio


two kids looked enough alive to be send to hospital. (but die)

and the "playing dead" girl covered in blood from head to toe... -> not send to hospital.

Law enforcement confirmed in a press briefing that 18 children died at the scene, 2 children were pronounced dead at the hospital, and 6 adults were pronounced dead at the scene. They confirmed that 1 person was injured and survived. Lieutenant Paul Vance said that first responders received crisis counseling due to the gruesome nature of the crime scene.

[link to www.thejanedough.com]
 Quoting: Fred-S


except this hospital claims no victims were ever brought there...
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 08:24 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
Shills are worked up over this issue of pronouncement of death of the 26 victims and the apparent lack of recussitation.

Who pronounced 26 victims dead? How long did that take? Was there any attempt at recussitation with any of the 26?
 Quoting: Gladio


If anyone are the 'shills' here, it is those who keep repeating known false information like YOU!










From:
[link to www.sponsorhospital.org]
NHSHP Crime Scene Guidelines

...
III. Entry to the crime scene should be made with the minimum number of personnel necessary to access and provide care to the patient(s).
• Do not send in multiple BLS first responders, ALS first responders and ambulance crew if it is likely to be a presumption of death


...

XI. Patients who meet the “obvious death” criteria do not require EKG confirmation
of asystole, or any manipulation of the body. These include:
• Total separation of vital organs from body or total destruction of these
organs accompanied by no detectable pulse or respirations. Note: A single
person can rapidly assess for pulse and respirations.
• Any other injury not compatible with life in a pulseless apneic patient

...


XIII. It is important to realize that law enforcement personnel have the authority to
presume death. If death has been presumed by a law enforcement officer, medical
confirmation procedures do not need to be performed by pre-hospital providers
unless requested.






NEXT !
Fred-S

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Switzerland
03/01/2013 08:38 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
...



From:
[link to www.sponsorhospital.org]
NHSHP Crime Scene Guidelines

...
III. Entry to the crime scene should be made with the minimum number of personnel necessary to access and provide care to the patient(s).
...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34464973


we know this, but

1. child was found alive in the middle.

2. 14-16 victims in a classroom, with a lot of blood everywhere (Rousseau class) need a little "check up" even if everybody could be pronounced dead easily.

3. why to fix the triage area after evacuation?
Anonymous Coward
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United States
03/01/2013 08:43 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
we know this, but

 Quoting: Fred-S


X

incorrect

disinfo shills continue to repeat the lie
pinkpixiexx
Collecting stardust

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03/01/2013 08:54 PM

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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
but my point was that it isn't contested!!...did you not read exactly what I said. The shooting incident was not contested....but the police allowing the guy who did the shooting to keep his gun license was questioned.

Please don't start trying to turn every shooting incident in to a conspiracy...it's just too much...it just becomes an alternative insanity!..I understand that my comparison does not fit in with what you all want to see/...but you can't dismiss it by saying it also was a hoax...it's just not so!
 Quoting: pinkpixiexx


no..no.. you are right.
but i prefer to look at event with "quite" not contested, slightly contested, moderately contested, to highly contested. And not in binary mode: contested or not.

Maybe Dunblane is "slightly contested"
Columbine is "not" contested.
and Port Arthur massacre "moderately" contested.

but maybe i am totally wrong because i didnt studied well all those events.

i am sorry if you took badly what i've said, because your posts look wise, interesting and balanced.
 Quoting: Fred-S


It's ok and ty....hf

Dunblane was such a sad event that really touched peoples hearts. The tighter gun controls really did not bother most people here because most of us never consider having a gun any way.

I'm not sure what to make of the Sandy Hook incident to be honest but my gut feeling tells me the event is real...as in those kids were shot and killed. I don't think I can go with the everyone was actors theory...but ...was it somehow engineered to push an agenda...maybe...
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace"

"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."

“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”
AnonymousGirl

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Canada
03/01/2013 09:02 PM

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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
I've been stating this all along in other threads- I'm an EMT of 15 years- I have been on many calls both trauma and medical (as well as a few MCI's- including 9/11)- That video is correct- What bothers me the most is the "lack or chaos" at the scene- I have been to scenes (no where near with this many "victims")- that were so chaotic-you did not know which way was up-

Common in EMS- I would describe is as "Controlled chaos"- I would have expected ambulances from all over to be called into the scene to try every method of life saving- and also- where were the Medivacs (at least put on standby?)
Standard procedure in most states is (as soon as you hear the call)- you request helicopters for rapid transport. 20+ victims means you should have at LEAST 25-30 ambulances en route (from anywhere and everywhere)- This to me stands out as the biggest issue I have. I have been to CPR codes involving 90 year olds (one patient) with more chaos then this.........
 Quoting: huskyfan68


So what would you do, or be expected to do, in a situation like this? What's the protocol that you've been taught for a mass shooting scenario?
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34464973
United States
03/01/2013 09:05 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
I've been stating this all along in other threads- I'm an EMT of 15 years- I have been on many calls both trauma and medical (as well as a few MCI's- including 9/11)- That video is correct- What bothers me the most is the "lack or chaos" at the scene- I have been to scenes (no where near with this many "victims")- that were so chaotic-you did not know which way was up-

Common in EMS- I would describe is as "Controlled chaos"- I would have expected ambulances from all over to be called into the scene to try every method of life saving- and also- where were the Medivacs (at least put on standby?)
Standard procedure in most states is (as soon as you hear the call)- you request helicopters for rapid transport. 20+ victims means you should have at LEAST 25-30 ambulances en route (from anywhere and everywhere)- This to me stands out as the biggest issue I have. I have been to CPR codes involving 90 year olds (one patient) with more chaos then this.........
 Quoting: huskyfan68


So what would you do, or be expected to do, in a situation like this? What's the protocol that you've been taught for a mass shooting scenario?
 Quoting: AnonymousGirl


You dont have to guess the protocol:

The protocol for CT is posted a few posts above.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 09:08 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
I've been stating this all along in other threads- I'm an EMT of 15 years- I have been on many calls both trauma and medical (as well as a few MCI's- including 9/11)- That video is correct- What bothers me the most is the "lack or chaos" at the scene- I have been to scenes (no where near with this many "victims")- that were so chaotic-you did not know which way was up-

Common in EMS- I would describe is as "Controlled chaos"- I would have expected ambulances from all over to be called into the scene to try every method of life saving- and also- where were the Medivacs (at least put on standby?)
Standard procedure in most states is (as soon as you hear the call)- you request helicopters for rapid transport. 20+ victims means you should have at LEAST 25-30 ambulances en route (from anywhere and everywhere)- This to me stands out as the biggest issue I have. I have been to CPR codes involving 90 year olds (one patient) with more chaos then this.........
 Quoting: huskyfan68


So what would you do, or be expected to do, in a situation like this? What's the protocol that you've been taught for a mass shooting scenario?
 Quoting: AnonymousGirl


You dont have to guess the protocol:

The protocol for CT is posted a few posts above.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34464973


and in addition, the posted you are asking for more info has already been proven wrong.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 09:11 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
'but but but EMS didnt do what tehy should be doing in a mass shooting!!'


...


From:
[link to www.sponsorhospital.org]
NHSHP Crime Scene Guidelines

...
III. Entry to the crime scene should be made with the minimum number of personnel necessary to access and provide care to the patient(s).
Do not send in multiple BLS first responders, ALS first responders and ambulance crew if it is likely to be a presumption of death


...

XI. Patients who meet the “obvious death” criteria do not require EKG confirmation
of asystole, or any manipulation of the body.
These include:
• Total separation of vital organs from body or total destruction of these
organs accompanied by no detectable pulse or respirations. Note: A single
person can rapidly assess for pulse and respirations.
• Any other injury not compatible with life in a pulseless apneic patient

...


XIII. It is important to realize that law enforcement personnel have the authority to
presume death
. If death has been presumed by a law enforcement officer, medical
confirmation procedures do not need to be performed by pre-hospital providers[this mean EMS crews]
unless requested.






NEXT !
AnonymousGirl

User ID: 5331384
Canada
03/01/2013 09:14 PM

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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
I've been stating this all along in other threads- I'm an EMT of 15 years- I have been on many calls both trauma and medical (as well as a few MCI's- including 9/11)- That video is correct- What bothers me the most is the "lack or chaos" at the scene- I have been to scenes (no where near with this many "victims")- that were so chaotic-you did not know which way was up-

Common in EMS- I would describe is as "Controlled chaos"- I would have expected ambulances from all over to be called into the scene to try every method of life saving- and also- where were the Medivacs (at least put on standby?)
Standard procedure in most states is (as soon as you hear the call)- you request helicopters for rapid transport. 20+ victims means you should have at LEAST 25-30 ambulances en route (from anywhere and everywhere)- This to me stands out as the biggest issue I have. I have been to CPR codes involving 90 year olds (one patient) with more chaos then this.........
 Quoting: huskyfan68


So what would you do, or be expected to do, in a situation like this? What's the protocol that you've been taught for a mass shooting scenario?
 Quoting: AnonymousGirl


You dont have to guess the protocol:

The protocol for CT is posted a few posts above.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34464973


and in addition, the posted you are asking for more info has already been proven wrong.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34464973


I don't understand "the posted you are asking for more info has already been proven wrong."

I just read the sponsorhospital information,and it clears up some things for me so thanks for sharing, whoever posted it.

It's annoying to attempt to learn information on this case and have to see the constant ego battles in every thread. If you really want the truth, it shouldn't matter if what you thought/believed ends up being right/wrong. rant

Last Edited by AnonymousGirl on 03/01/2013 09:15 PM
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Redcat1

User ID: 35208620
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03/01/2013 09:20 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
The central question raised in this thread is who assessed all 26 victims to be beyond recussitation. Also, how long did that process take?

Here's a New York Times article that features interviews with the first five officers in the building:
[link to www.nytimes.com]

Excerpt:

"They entered the front lobby and saw the first bodies, those of Dawn Hochsprung, the principal, they would later learn, and Mary Sherlach, the school psychologist.

You saw them lifeless, laying down,” Officer Penna recalled. “For a split second, your mind says could this be a mock crime scene, could this be fake, but in the next split second, you’re saying, there is no way. This is real.” "


Okay, they saw them lifeless and laying down. Did they immediately check their condition? How long before it was determined they were dead? it doesn't say anything about evisceration, incineration, or decapitation.

Later in the same article:

"Officer Penna, who was the first officer to enter the second room, found a girl standing alone amid the bodies. She appeared to be in shock, and was covered in blood, but had not been injured. He, not knowing the gunman had been found, told her to stay put."

"He ran into the next classroom and saw the dead gunman, with Officers Chapman and Smith standing nearby. State troopers and other officers were now flooding in. Officer Penna returned to the second classroom, his rifle slung around his chest, grabbed the uninjured girl by the arm and ran with her out to a triage area set up in the parking lot."

So he runs in and finds the dead gunman and the officers "standing nearby." STANDING NEARBY! Not like there's a lot going on, eh fellas? I assume you already checked all six dead kids plus two adults in Soto's room and pronounced them all dead. And don't forget about all the victims next door in Rousseau's room. Wow you guys are fast.

There are so many holes in this story it ain't even funny.
 Quoting: Gladio







IF there were victims then every first responder was criminally negligent.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 09:24 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information



IF there were victims then every first responder was criminally negligent.
 Quoting: Redcat1


and
here
we
go


oh looky its another who is continuing to post known false information in thread even after being shown it is plainly false...
ask yourselves 'why is that?'















'but but but EMS didnt do what tehy should be doing in a mass shooting!!'


...


From:
[link to www.sponsorhospital.org]
NHSHP Crime Scene Guidelines

...
III. Entry to the crime scene should be made with the minimum number of personnel necessary to access and provide care to the patient(s).
Do not send in multiple BLS first responders, ALS first responders and ambulance crew if it is likely to be a presumption of death


...

XI. Patients who meet the “obvious death” criteria do not require EKG confirmation
of asystole, or any manipulation of the body.
These include:
• Total separation of vital organs from body or total destruction of these
organs accompanied by no detectable pulse or respirations. Note: A single
person can rapidly assess for pulse and respirations.
• Any other injury not compatible with life in a pulseless apneic patient

...


XIII. It is important to realize that law enforcement personnel have the authority to
presume death
. If death has been presumed by a law enforcement officer, medical
confirmation procedures do not need to be performed by pre-hospital providers[this mean EMS crews]
unless requested.






NEXT !
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34464973
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34464973
United States
03/01/2013 09:26 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information



IF there were victims then every first responder was criminally negligent.
 Quoting: Redcat1


and
here
we
go


oh looky its another who is continuing to post known false information in thread even after being shown it is plainly false...
ask yourselves 'why is that?'







The facts ----->







'but but but EMS didnt do what tehy should be doing in a mass shooting!!'


...


From:
[link to www.sponsorhospital.org]
NHSHP Crime Scene Guidelines

...
III. Entry to the crime scene should be made with the minimum number of personnel necessary to access and provide care to the patient(s).
Do not send in multiple BLS first responders, ALS first responders and ambulance crew if it is likely to be a presumption of death


...

XI. Patients who meet the “obvious death” criteria do not require EKG confirmation
of asystole, or any manipulation of the body.
These include:
• Total separation of vital organs from body or total destruction of these
organs accompanied by no detectable pulse or respirations. Note: A single
person can rapidly assess for pulse and respirations.
• Any other injury not compatible with life in a pulseless apneic patient

...


XIII. It is important to realize that law enforcement personnel have the authority to
presume death
. If death has been presumed by a law enforcement officer, medical
confirmation procedures do not need to be performed by pre-hospital providers[this mean EMS crews]
unless requested.






NEXT !
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34464973

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34464973


correction:


oh looky its another who is continuing to post known false information in thread after thread even after being shown it is plainly false...
ask yourselves 'why is that?'
Redcat1

User ID: 35208620
United States
03/01/2013 09:26 PM
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Re: BREAKING!! Shocking New Sandy Hook Shooting Information
Shills are worked up over this issue of pronouncement of death of the 26 victims and the apparent lack of recussitation.

Who pronounced 26 victims dead? How long did that take? Was there any attempt at recussitation with any of the 26?
 Quoting: Gladio


two kids looked enough alive to be send to hospital. (but die)

and the "playing dead" girl covered in blood from head to toe... -> not send to hospital.

Law enforcement confirmed in a press briefing that 18 children died at the scene, 2 children were pronounced dead at the hospital, and 6 adults were pronounced dead at the scene. They confirmed that 1 person was injured and survived. Lieutenant Paul Vance said that first responders received crisis counseling due to the gruesome nature of the crime scene.

[link to www.thejanedough.com]
 Quoting: Fred-S


All 26 should have gone to the hospital. No one could declare them dead on the scene. Protocol and process require treatment for victims with no breathing and no pulse.

Other police have made the mistake of 'declaring' a victim dead - when she was not.

[link to blogs.findlaw.com]

It was only after about five hours that the officials from the county coroner's office were able to investigate the scene. Upon access to Southworth, they discovered that she wasn't a corpse - in fact, she was still alive. None of the officers on scene had checked her for vital signs, reports the Lexington Herald-Leader.

News