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Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.

 
sssss

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03/27/2013 04:02 PM
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
Like your dedication!

I agree that Ison will be significant, whether it be a Kachina star or Nibiru or maybe even both, not sure.

I leaning towards the Blue kachina tho, the previous comets thought to be where not significant enough to warn people of a new world coming. This this has to be big! like comet ISON!

"it is expected to be 15x brighter than a full moon, and will remain in the sky for the naked eye for months"

Honestly cant wait, intuition is screaming that this comet will be something!
 Quoting: sssss

To say it with the words of Forrest Gump:
"Comets are like a box of chocolates - you never know what you're gonna get."

The current development of the light curve shows a peak brightness of -13 mag at 2013 Nov. 28, 18:00 UTC. That is as bright as the full moon - not 15 times as bright.
But this peak brightnes the comet will reach only at some hours around perihelion (his closest approach to the sun).
The day before and after the perihelion the estimated brightnes is only -3.8 mag, about the brightness of Venus.

Unfortunately at this time (Perihelion +/- 1 day) the comet is too close to the sun to be observable without special equipment (simulating a solar eclipse - don't know the englisch word, in german it's "Protoberanzenansatz"). Nevertheless it will be in the Lasco images at that time.

A more reliable brightness estimation can be made in July/August (at best) - at the moment the development is lower than expected.

Estimated brightness of C/2012 S1 (ISON) - perihelion +/- 1.5 days.
c2012s1_mag1

.
 Quoting: Hydra

Thanks
hf
THE CHANGE IS COMING!
Spiritual Guidance, Spirit Guide communication, Shamanism & Kundalini.
glauco

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03/27/2013 05:00 PM
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
I guess I cut off all Hydra's head.

The other anamorphic dude will be hardest, I guess, but I will try throwing salt on him.
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
Hydra

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03/27/2013 05:13 PM

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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
Btw - you messed up the quotes in your post.

Man, I'm so good. Where is the smart guys in this forum? I only see quacks.
 Quoting: glauco

If you hadn't an american flag one could think you are the Corean moontard (forgot his screen name).


I agree with HD regarding his professorschip.
Nevertheless you are right in pointing out, that he did not use the title "Professor" in any of his publications or on web pages. On the other hand he never rejected to be named so - at the best this is dishonest (in Germany it would be a criminal offence).
Also there remains the question, who brought it up?


His first papers in Cornell were peer-reviewed. Not sure about other ones published out of Cornell by American Geophysical Union, but I guess so.
 Quoting: glauco

As far as I could research he published onle two papers at Cornell, the two you mentioned (at least a search didn't bring up more results).
Thereafter Cornell (in the early 80s) refused to publish any more papers of McCanny because of his woo-woo theories (translation: bullshit theories) and fired him.

I'm not familiar with his theories, e.g. his Plasma Discharge Comet Model, (not yet) but what I read so far is utter bullshit.


What brings us to C/2012 S1 (ISON).

"i am currently analyzing the orbit of this comet. It appears to have a significant planet sized nucleus ..." Jim McCanney, September 24, 2012
Thus, according to McCanny, the nucleus of C/2012 S1 is at least 2,440 km, the size of the smalles planet in our solar syste - Mercury.
There is a well established empirical formula, established since centuries, to estimate the size of a comet nucleus according to his distance and brightness - verified by several close flybys and visits of space probes to comets.
This formula gives the nucleus of C/2012 S1 as 20 km (source: Remanzacco Observatory).
So what do you think is more likely? A calculation, that works since centuries or the statement of McC?
Keep in mind, that - when the comet approaches - it is possible to distinguish the nucleus from the coma by measurement in different wavelength.


But lets go on.
"there are some really interesting alignments including a new collision with the planet Mars" Jim McCanney, September 28, 2012
Sorry, McC, at that time the orbital elements were already out - indicating, that the distance to Mars would be around 10 million kilometers.

"this could certainly cause some significant weather effects on mars which could include electrical discharges between the comet and mars" Jim McCanney, September 28, 2012
What did he expect? A 10 million kilometer electric arc?

"there are a number of scenarios depending on the mass of this comet which could rival little mars and could cause changes in both comet and mars orbit" Jim McCanney, September 30, 2012
There is no way a comet can come even close to the mass of mars. There is no way a comet can change the orbit of a planet.
That's pure fearmongering to sell his crap.

"i originally stated on my show that this would not be visible in the morning sky but i revisited my information and in fact we will have a superb night time early morning view of the comet approaching mars" Jim McCanney, October 13, 2012
The closest approach to Mars occures at 2013 Oct. 1.
Brighness of Mars at that day: 1.8 mag
Estimated brighness of C/2012 S1 at that day: 10.4 mag

That means, Mars is about 2000 times brighter than the comet.
And that we can see, according to McC, with the naked eye?
What is he expecting? A firework pointing from the comet to Mars?
I tell you as an amateur astronomer: Even in a decent sized telescope it will be difficult to spot the comet at mag 10.4 - especially not if Mars is also in the field of view and outshines all around it.


And this man taught orbital mechanics at Cornell. What did he teach his students? That Mercury and Venus need longer to orbit the sun as Earth?


Will you back away from McCanneys crap when you can not see sparks between Mars and C/2012 S1 around the 1st of October.
Will you back away from McCanneys crap when you even can't see the comet itself with the naked eye?



.
If the Moon is off, if Earth wobbles or if there is a pole shift
how can things like this, predicted decades ago, happen?

aseindia
Annular Solar Eclipse - January 15, 2010 - Rameshwaram, India
Hydra

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03/27/2013 05:32 PM

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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
Hydra bring [brought] us a wikipedia article on how it works in USA and Canada, why don't you do the same for some coutries?
 Quoting: glauco

If you had read the wikipedia article you would know.


We are talking about James "the comets gain mass, are as massive as planets, there's a doomsday planet coming that's going to kill us any day now" McCanney, aren't we.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz,FCD

Actually he never said that, he said that "a few comets gain mass, a few comets are massive and probably one of them someday will have our name on it.".
 Quoting: glauco

So please quote where he said this and reference it.


None of that stuff science.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz,FCD

Tell me about science and how it works.
 Quoting: glauco

[link to scienceblogs.com]

But none of these papers are relevant to his woo claims.
Are there any about comets gaining mass?
Are there any about comets being as massive as planets?
Are there any about the Mystery Planet of Doom™?
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz,FCD

Yes, some of them gain mass.
Yes, some of them are massive as planets.
Yes, one day one could come here in our vicinities. Who knows? If small ones may come, why not big ones?
 Quoting: glauco

Please provide evidence for your claims.


But none of these papers are relevant to his woo claims.
Are there any about comets gaining mass?
Are there any about comets being as massive as planets?
Are there any about the Mystery Planet of Doom™?
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz,FCD

Yes, one day one could come here in our vicinities. Who knows? If small ones may come, why not big ones?
 Quoting: glauco

Can you provide the question to your answer?


.
If the Moon is off, if Earth wobbles or if there is a pole shift
how can things like this, predicted decades ago, happen?

aseindia
Annular Solar Eclipse - January 15, 2010 - Rameshwaram, India
Hydra

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03/27/2013 05:36 PM

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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
I guess I cut off all Hydra's head.

The other anamorphic dude will be hardest, I guess, but I will try throwing salt on him.
 Quoting: glauco

Exercise patience.
I'm not on "duty" 24/7 - apart from GLP I have a privat life and a work life.


.
If the Moon is off, if Earth wobbles or if there is a pole shift
how can things like this, predicted decades ago, happen?

aseindia
Annular Solar Eclipse - January 15, 2010 - Rameshwaram, India
Anonymous Coward
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03/27/2013 06:08 PM
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.

Why is it his way of life?
Why did he run away from academe?


Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD
I'm not sure. He have a lot of reasons, I guess. Try to look for this information in his "Thought of the day" subpage, I guess he talk a lot about in an old radio show.





That's an easy one. Mccanney came up with his Electric Universe Theories while teaching graduate level math at Cornel University.


Where taught Carl Sagan. Who became known only because he was chosen to be the hitman on Immanuel Velikovsky.



YOU HAVE TO KNOW THE HISTORY OF VELIKOVSKY, SAGAN, AND THE ASTRONOMERS OF THE DAY WHO VILIFIED THIS UPSTART VELIKOVSKY

even though as the years passed many of Velikovsky's theories about astronomy were proven correct (as have Mccanney's) and the professional astronomer's including Sagan were proven wrong.





So, Mccanney, being unaware of Velikovsky and the world wide scientific holocaust that had been going on for almost two decades,


published theories that were in direct correlation and alignment with the heretic Velikovsky.



so he was castigated, cast out, then burned alive. Kind of like Bruno was and Galileo was threatened with.




So, you either study the HISTORY in depth, or you go with the status quo. If you are one of the sheeple then what the hell are you doing arguing about scientific heretics anyway for?

Sheeple NEVER investigate facts, they just go with the herd.


Mccanney was proven correct many many times during the years of the comets (1995-2006) by direct observation. How do I know this? I observed directly, and debated idiots WHILE the events were going on.

I didn't try to pontificate without facts or study years after the events took place.


IF ISON SURVIVES THE TRIP AROUND THE SUN, then you will have a chance to see for yourself.

Again. Since you obviously missed the fireworks just a decade ago.
Hydra

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03/27/2013 07:24 PM

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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
IF ISON SURVIVES THE TRIP AROUND THE SUN, then you will have a chance to see for yourself.

Again. Since you obviously missed the fireworks just a decade ago.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36868715

What fireworks? Hyakutake? Hale Bopp?
Yes, I missed the fireworks - though not the comets.

Since you claim you observed them by yourself, you should be able to provide some evidence in the form of some firework photos.


.
If the Moon is off, if Earth wobbles or if there is a pole shift
how can things like this, predicted decades ago, happen?

aseindia
Annular Solar Eclipse - January 15, 2010 - Rameshwaram, India
glauco

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03/27/2013 08:02 PM
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
Btw - you messed up the quotes in your post.
 Quoting: Hydra

What? Hm, sorry.

If you hadn't an american flag one could think you are the Corean moontard (forgot his screen name).
 Quoting: Hydra

Wanna know the truth? We Brazilians really laugh at that Korean monster and his family, but actually we are not fan of the American way. We do not understand either why they call themselves as Americans because anybody who born in South, Center or North America is American too. But if they like to be known as that, no problem at all...

I agree with HD regarding his professorschip.
Nevertheless you are right in pointing out, that he did not use the title "Professor" in any of his publications or on web pages. On the other hand he never rejected to be named so - at the best this is dishonest (in Germany it would be a criminal offence).
Also there remains the question, who brought it up?
 Quoting: Hydra

Nice question, I really don't know. I have long hair and some people likes to call me "hair". I don't like it, but no problem if they want.

As far as I could research he published onle two papers at Cornell, the two you mentioned (at least a search didn't bring up more results).
Thereafter Cornell (in the early 80s) refused to publish any more papers of McCanny because of his woo-woo theories (translation: bullshit theories) and fired him.
 Quoting: Hydra

Yes, correct. The problem was not with the theoretical work itself, because if you read them you will find out that it is theoretically correct. Understand it: the theoretical work (the model) may be well done, but the observations may not match with the model. So the model could be wrong, but theoretically correct. The problem with the University, as stated by him, is that his model was completely against the official model prepared by own Carl Sagan, the chief of the Astro Institute, his chief. You must consider it as a hard situation for the staff to keep McCanney theories being used and published just where something familiar had been debunked a few years before. No conspiracy needed, only politics.

I'm not familiar with his theories, e.g. his Plasma Discharge Comet Model, (not yet) but what I read so far is utter bullshit.
 Quoting: Hydra

He is doing a special offer with his books in e-format, you could try,

What brings us to C/2012 S1 (ISON).

"i am currently analyzing the orbit of this comet. It appears to have a significant planet sized nucleus ..." Jim McCanney, September 24, 2012
Thus, according to McCanny, the nucleus of C/2012 S1 is at least 2,440 km, the size of the smalles planet in our solar syste - Mercury.
There is a well established empirical formula, established since centuries, to estimate the size of a comet nucleus according to his distance and brightness - verified by several close flybys and visits of space probes to comets.
This formula gives the nucleus of C/2012 S1 as 20 km (source: Remanzacco Observatory).
So what do you think is more likely? A calculation, that works since centuries or the statement of McC?
Keep in mind, that - when the comet approaches - it is possible to distinguish the nucleus from the coma by measurement in different wavelength.
 Quoting: Hydra

Unfortunately this formula works very good only for small comets, not big ones. We only visited small comets so far. This formula consider the light from a comet as being reflected by the Sun, but in McCanney's model the comet is lightning by itself, because it is electric, like a light neon bulb. Like a black body. Big comets have so many light being emanated that this formula would not work. So this formula don't works in this case. As only professional equipment are able to see this comet and he don't have it, consider that he is using his own theoretical work to estimate it. Actually he made some predictions regarding this comet with dates and occurrences, and he matches. All related to weather. He would not hit it right on the nose as he did if the comet is not a large one.

But lets go on.
"there are some really interesting alignments including a new collision with the planet Mars" Jim McCanney, September 28, 2012
Sorry, McC, at that time the orbital elements were already out - indicating, that the distance to Mars would be around 10 million kilometers.
 Quoting: Hydra

Continue reading the same post you paste here and you will see that he is talking about electric alignments and what he call "Action at a Distance", where a comet don't have to get close to the object to affect it due to the electrical alignments. Not direct collision. As I said you must stop doing broken excerpts of texts that are already small.

"this could certainly cause some significant weather effects on mars which could include electrical discharges between the comet and mars" Jim McCanney, September 28, 2012
What did he expect? A 10 million kilometer electric arc?
 Quoting: Hydra

Yes, exactly. He is not sure if it will be eye-naked visible during the encounter next September/October, but that would be good to see.

"there are a number of scenarios depending on the mass of this comet which could rival little mars and could cause changes in both comet and mars orbit" Jim McCanney, September 30, 2012
There is no way a comet can come even close to the mass of mars. There is no way a comet can change the orbit of a planet.
That's pure fearmongering to sell his crap.
 Quoting: Hydra

It is pretty possible *if* the comet is large, and his theoretical work predicts those objects.

"i originally stated on my show that this would not be visible in the morning sky but i revisited my information and in fact we will have a superb night time early morning view of the comet approaching mars" Jim McCanney, October 13, 2012
The closest approach to Mars occures at 2013 Oct. 1.
Brighness of Mars at that day: 1.8 mag
Estimated brighness of C/2012 S1 at that day: 10.4 mag

That means, Mars is about 2000 times brighter than the comet.
And that we can see, according to McC, with the naked eye?
What is he expecting? A firework pointing from the comet to Mars?
I tell you as an amateur astronomer: Even in a decent sized telescope it will be difficult to spot the comet at mag 10.4 - especially not if Mars is also in the field of view and outshines all around it.
 Quoting: Hydra

I *never* see a telescope nor a pair of good binoculars. If you are stating that this comet will not be visible to the naked eyes during this period at night, no problem, I consider you. But remember he consider it as a large comet, so should start being visible sooner.

And this man taught orbital mechanics at Cornell. What did he teach his students? That Mercury and Venus need longer to orbit the sun as Earth?
 Quoting: Hydra

Yeah, he teaches this for two years. But was fired by his ideas. Strange, don't you think?


Will you back away from McCanneys crap when you can not see sparks between Mars and C/2012 S1 around the 1st of October.
Will you back away from McCanneys crap when you even can't see the comet itself with the naked eye?

.
 Quoting: Hydra

I don't know, I pretend to buy astronomical binoculars to see it even if it is just a pretty dirty ice snowball as NASA said.

If you had read the wikipedia article you would know.
 Quoting: Hydra

I did, I read this article long ago.

We are talking about James "the comets gain mass, are as massive as planets, there's a doomsday planet coming that's going to kill us any day now" McCanney, aren't we.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz,FCD

Actually he never said that, he said that "a few comets gain mass, a few comets are massive and probably one of them someday will have our name on it.".

So please quote where he said this and reference it.
 Quoting: Hydra

He says that almost every radio show and in all of his books and papers. All the time. Phil Plait lied that McCanney stated that every comet is big and gain mass. Phil Plait should be the guy to quote where McCanney said that, not me.

None of that stuff science.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz,FCD

Tell me about science and how it works.
 Quoting: glauco

[link to scienceblogs.com]
 Quoting: Hydra

You must be kidding, correct? I'm expecting you to talk about Karl Popper or something more philosophical than that...

But none of these papers are relevant to his woo claims.
Are there any about comets gaining mass?
Are there any about comets being as massive as planets?
Are there any about the Mystery Planet of Doom™?
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz,FCD

Yes, some of them gain mass.
Yes, some of them are massive as planets.
Yes, one day one could come here in our vicinities. Who knows? If small ones may come, why not big ones?
 Quoting: glauco

Please provide evidence for your claims.
 Quoting: Hydra

Yes, sure, lemme take my spaceship that I let in the garage for repairs then I take some pictures for you, ok?

But none of these papers are relevant to his woo claims.
Are there any about comets gaining mass?
Are there any about comets being as massive as planets?
Are there any about the Mystery Planet of Doom™?
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz,FCD

Yes, one day one could come here in our vicinities. Who knows? If small ones may come, why not big ones?
 Quoting: glauco

Can you provide the question to your answer?
 Quoting: Hydra

It is rhetoric.

I guess I cut off all Hydra's head.

The other anamorphic dude will be hardest, I guess, but I will try throwing salt on him.
 Quoting: glauco

Exercise patience.
I'm not on "duty" 24/7 - apart from GLP I have a privat life and a work life.
 Quoting: Hydra

Well, at least I keep you alert.

Last Edited by glauco on 03/27/2013 08:12 PM
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
Anonymous Coward
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03/27/2013 08:37 PM
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
great now you tards have decided its a comet now.

Its a planet...

Its a solar system..

Its an Asteroid..

Now its a Comet..

Way to stay credible nirribooboo tards
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24999671


Oh poor baby.. the world is such a confusing place for the sheeple trying to make sense of it ay.sheep

TPTB spread the disinfo that's why there is so much confusion.

A brown dwarf flew past thousands of years ago and ripped away the first of our gas giants Ceres Major orbiting where the asteroids are today.

The Brown dwarf called Nemesis and our Sun revolve around one another. Ceres major or Nibiru/Planet X/Red Dragon/ The Great Purifier etc. etc.. comes back into our solar system every 5000 + years.

Last time it came back it fucked up the Olmec, Hittites, Babylonians, Minoan and Numerous other Mediterranean civilisations. The Egyptian were smashed so bad it allowed the Jews under Moses to tell the Egyptians to jam their job and wondered off to find God.

The plagues and aerial effects described in Exodus just prior to the Jews exit are descriptions of Nibiru's local effects.

All parts of a celestial body large enough to have an atmosphere when they get smashed apart by meteor impact or as in the case of Nibiru get the rock/metallic core ripped out of its atmospheric envelope leave fragments with residual atmosphere which freezes when they get blasted in the Ort cloud.

Indeed most of the Ort cloud is made up of the Atmosphere of Ceres Major which streamed out behind its rocky core as it was ripped out like the pip from a Lychee. This atmosphere coalesced into a random and chaotic collection of different sized lumps that continue to rain back in when perturbed by Nibiru's passage through them on her pilgrimage between her family and the Brown Dwarf that stole her away.

When they fall back into the inner solar system they are called comets due to the electrical and thermodynamics of the Sun on the ice they are wrapped in as opposed to the asteroids which have no ice coating them.tounge
 Quoting: indigowiz


Whoa...damn man sounds like you figured it out. So ISON is Nibiru?
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
Contrarian's Contrarian

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03/28/2013 06:08 AM

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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
It is incorrect means it is not true.
In many countries professor is a protected term.

Why do you keep repeating this lie?
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

No, it is not a lie. For example, if I know C# Programming Language and I have a class of students, no matter if I have a degree, I will be hired as "Professor". At least here in South America, I don't know how it works in Europe.
 Quoting: glauco

So when you said 'any other country' it was just something you imagined to be the case, not something you actually know.

Such admiral dedication to The Truth™.

None of that stuff [is] science.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Tell me about science and how it works.
 Quoting: glauco

If your idea doesn't match observed reality it is wrong.

Because if Hawking would write books filled with crank people wouldn't just gobble it up and believe it.
They would see it was crank and they would tell him so. Time to retire Stephen.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz,FCD

Well, this is a personal motivation. I personally don't like Hawking and I'm not even sure if is really him who wrote his books.
 Quoting: glauco

You're missing the point.

But none of these papers are relevant to his woo claims.
Are there any about comets gaining mass?
Are there any about comets being as massive as planets?
Are there any about the Mystery Planet of Doom™?
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Yes, some of them gain mass.
Yes, some of them are massive as planets.
Yes, one day one could come here in our vicinities. Who knows? If small ones may come, why not big ones?
 Quoting: glauco

So WHY is Mr. McCanney unwilling to expose these ideas to academic scrutiny?
The only papers he's actually published in peer-reviewed journals are rather pedestrian compared with these ideas.

You make a lot of claims you can't proof, don't you?
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Want to talk about Falseability and Occam's Razor? But take care, I really know these subjects.
 Quoting: glauco

Yet you deny the supremacy of empirical evidence.

Sometimes a scientists gets an idea s/he thinks is brilliant (and very well might be) and falls in love with.
An obsessive pathological love that bides not critique, after all the idea is so beautiful it must be true.
That is the first step to crankhood.

Don't make me laugh.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Are you a woman? If so I may continue.
 Quoting: glauco

I will presume that remark wasn't sexist.

All you did was present an appeal to scientific authority.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

You did the same with Phil Plait and Hawking.
 Quoting: glauco

I did the exact opposite!

I said even Hawking, in spite of his authority, would be called out on crap like this.

Since every real scientist who is familiar with McCanney's B.S. thinks he's a crank, that only backfires.
book
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Who? Phil Plait? Give me names.
 Quoting: glauco

ALL OF THEM.

================

He is doing a special offer with his books in e-format, you could try,
 Quoting: glauco

Do you get a commission or something?

Yeah, he teaches this for two years. But was fired by his ideas.
 Quoting: glauco

Evidence for this?
book
Hatred is a cancer upon the world.
It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
phoomp

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03/28/2013 06:14 AM
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
Occam's Razor? But take care, I really know these subjects.
 Quoting: glauco

Tell us what you think you know about Occam's Razor. I suspect all you know about the concept is just enough to convince yourself that you're right about anything you want to be right about.
glauco

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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
So when you said 'any other country' it was just something you imagined to be the case, not something you actually know.

Such admiral dedication to The Truth™.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

No, I just consider the most oficial sources we may have for this subject, which is wikipedia and my own observations in South America. If you think I'm wrong, so please prove it.

This don't matter anyway, as McCanney don't uses this title.

If your idea doesn't match observed reality it is wrong.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Yes, correct, but please specify which observation regarding McCanney science does not match with observations.

You're missing the point.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz,FCD

Why? Nobody needs rows and columns of PhDs to tell the people about the true. People recognizes it by themselves.

So WHY is Mr. McCanney unwilling to expose these ideas to academic scrutiny?
The only papers he's actually published in peer-reviewed journals are rather pedestrian compared with these ideas.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

You didn't read them, how could you claim that? Are you a person able to read scientific papers? If so, you should read these publications before claiming.

Yet you deny the supremacy of empirical evidence.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Empirical evidence of what? That comets are made of dirty and ice? No ice or water was found in any comet's flyby.

Sometimes a scientists gets an idea s/he thinks is brilliant (and very well might be) and falls in love with.
An obsessive pathological love that bides not critique, after all the idea is so beautiful it must be true.
That is the first step to crankhood.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

I know it.

Don't make me laugh.
Are you a woman? If so I may continue.
 Quoting: glauco

I will presume that remark wasn't sexist.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Yeah, talks like a girl hf

I did the exact opposite!
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Don't looks so. You bring Phil's and cosmofear page but never check their statements.

I said even Hawking, in spite of his authority, would be called out on crap like this.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Why is Hawking so important for you?

I said:
Who? Phil Plait? Give me names. Nobody goes to AGU meetings and publishes there without being formally invited.
 Quoting: glauco


But you insist I said:
Who? Phil Plait? Give me names.
 Quoting: glauco

 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

So I insist: why do you keep braking small sentences in even smaller sentences to fix your ideas? You put words in my mouth this way.

ALL OF THEM.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Do you represent ALL OF THE SCIENTISTS IN THE WORLD? Prove your claimings or go away, bring real names to this discussion, please.

Do you get a commission or something?
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Actually I suffer to buy his products, but those are really inexpensive. I'm a poor guy.

Evidence for this?
book
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Why would a so important institute to the space sciences to hire, publish papers, fire, hire again, and then publish again for two years a guy who don't have any clue of physicist or math?
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
glauco

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03/28/2013 07:04 AM
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
Occam's Razor? But take care, I really know these subjects.
 Quoting: glauco

Tell us what you think you know about Occam's Razor. I suspect all you know about the concept is just enough to convince yourself that you're right about anything you want to be right about.
 Quoting: phoomp


It is quite simple: if you have two models which explains well the same observations but with contrary statements of the process, the simplest model is the correct.
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
Dr. AstroModerator
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03/28/2013 07:14 AM

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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
He is doing a special offer with his books in e-format, you could try,
 Quoting: glauco

Do you get a commission or something?
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

And they dare call ME a shill. Ha!
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glauco

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03/28/2013 07:18 AM
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
He is doing a special offer with his books in e-format, you could try,
 Quoting: glauco

Do you get a commission or something?
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

And they dare call ME a shill. Ha!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Not me, I never did it. I don't even know what "shill" means.
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
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03/28/2013 07:28 AM

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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
If your idea doesn't match observed reality it is wrong.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Yes, correct, but please specify which observation regarding McCanney science does not match with observations.
 Quoting: glauco

I could get into it with you again about McCanney's failed claims of the mass and size of Hale-Bopp, but I'll go farther than that instead and predict a future failure of his science compared to observations. When comet ISON makes its close approach to Mars at only 0.072 AU on October 1st, it will fail to detectably perturb the orbit of Mars despite McCanney's claims that it's a massive planet-sized object. Will you then agree that McCanney was wrong, yes or no?
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
He is doing a special offer with his books in e-format, you could try,
 Quoting: glauco

Do you get a commission or something?
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

And they dare call ME a shill. Ha!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Not me, I never did it. I don't even know what "shill" means.
 Quoting: glauco


It's essentially what you're doing right now, trying to come on here and sell books for McCanney.
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03/28/2013 07:44 AM
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
Occam's Razor? But take care, I really know these subjects.
 Quoting: glauco

Tell us what you think you know about Occam's Razor. I suspect all you know about the concept is just enough to convince yourself that you're right about anything you want to be right about.
 Quoting: phoomp


It is quite simple: if you have two models which explains well the same observations but with contrary statements of the process, the simplest model is the correct.
 Quoting: glauco

As I suspected, you've got a simplistic understanding of Occam's Razor, by design to convince yourself that you're right.

Most people who invoke Occam's Razor fail to provide convincing evidence that their model is the simplest. In fact, they usually end up creating incredibly complex and convoluted arguments in an attempt to prove how simple their model is.

Quite often, it becomes quickly apparent that the only reason you think your solution is the simplest is because you have only a simplistic understanding of what you're talking about.

Last Edited by phoomp on 03/28/2013 07:46 AM
glauco

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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
If your idea doesn't match observed reality it is wrong.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Yes, correct, but please specify which observation regarding McCanney science does not match with observations.
 Quoting: glauco

I could get into it with you again about McCanney's failed claims of the mass and size of Hale-Bopp, but I'll go farther than that instead and predict a future failure of his science compared to observations. When comet ISON makes its close approach to Mars at only 0.072 AU on October 1st, it will fail to detectably perturb the orbit of Mars despite McCanney's claims that it's a massive planet-sized object. Will you then agree that McCanney was wrong, yes or no?
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

It is a bet? Alright, you do the same, but there are three aspects to consider: radical surface/atmosphere changes after the comet passage, electrical interactions between the comet and Mars, and orbit changes. If any of these three events occur during the passage, I win. If don't, you win.


...

Do you get a commission or something?
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

And they dare call ME a shill. Ha!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Not me, I never did it. I don't even know what "shill" means.
 Quoting: glauco


It's essentially what you're doing right now, trying to come on here and sell books for McCanney.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

If somebody said that don't know about a subject and you know where to find it, what's the problem in sending him to buy a book? I also said that he could listen to the radio shows, which is the same, but you all insists in ignore what you don't want me to say.
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
If your idea doesn't match observed reality it is wrong.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Yes, correct, but please specify which observation regarding McCanney science does not match with observations.
 Quoting: glauco

I could get into it with you again about McCanney's failed claims of the mass and size of Hale-Bopp, but I'll go farther than that instead and predict a future failure of his science compared to observations. When comet ISON makes its close approach to Mars at only 0.072 AU on October 1st, it will fail to detectably perturb the orbit of Mars despite McCanney's claims that it's a massive planet-sized object. Will you then agree that McCanney was wrong, yes or no?
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

It is a bet? Alright, you do the same, but there are three aspects to consider: radical surface/atmosphere changes after the comet passage,
 Quoting: glauco

No. That is not the prediction. He claims the comet is as massive as a planet. Either that is true or it is not. If it is true, it WILL cause a detectable perturbation in the orbit of Mars. Atmospheric events are not confirmation evidence of such a claim. Orbital changes are, and either his claim will be confirmed or refuted. There is no third option and no need for "three other aspects." Either you will accept the above test of his claim or you will ignore empirical evidence proving his claim right or wrong. Which will it be?
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
Occam's Razor? But take care, I really know these subjects.
 Quoting: glauco

Tell us what you think you know about Occam's Razor. I suspect all you know about the concept is just enough to convince yourself that you're right about anything you want to be right about.
 Quoting: phoomp


It is quite simple: if you have two models which explains well the same observations but with contrary statements of the process, the simplest model is the correct.
 Quoting: glauco

As I suspected, you've got a simplistic understanding of Occam's Razor, by design to convince yourself that you're right.

Most people who invoke Occam's Razor fail to provide convincing evidence that their model is the simplest. In fact, they usually end up creating incredibly complex and convoluted arguments in an attempt to prove how simple their model is.

Quite often, it becomes quickly apparent that the only reason you think your solution is the simplest is because you have only a simplistic understanding of what you're talking about.
 Quoting: phoomp


You is too confused. In first paragraph you said that I don't know what is Occam's Razor, but following you said that probably I don't know enough about both models, the NASA's "little dirty snow ball" comet model (after the flybys comets are now little, dirty black, dry, hot, radioative, steaming, infinite mass and ice-cream, all mixed together) and the McCanney's "electric discharge comet model". You should talk about my misunderstanding about the Occam's Razor, but you didn't, you turn attention and messed the point!
Well, I guarantee you that I know about these topics as much as a non-physicist-common-people can do. As a common people, I don't need a PhD to tell me what is True or False all the time, I can hold this decision by myself.
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
glauco

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03/28/2013 08:15 AM
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
...

Yes, correct, but please specify which observation regarding McCanney science does not match with observations.
 Quoting: glauco

I could get into it with you again about McCanney's failed claims of the mass and size of Hale-Bopp, but I'll go farther than that instead and predict a future failure of his science compared to observations. When comet ISON makes its close approach to Mars at only 0.072 AU on October 1st, it will fail to detectably perturb the orbit of Mars despite McCanney's claims that it's a massive planet-sized object. Will you then agree that McCanney was wrong, yes or no?
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

It is a bet? Alright, you do the same, but there are three aspects to consider: radical surface/atmosphere changes after the comet passage,
 Quoting: glauco

No. That is not the prediction. He claims the comet is as massive as a planet. Either that is true or it is not. If it is true, it WILL cause a detectable perturbation in the orbit of Mars. Atmospheric events are not confirmation evidence of such a claim. Orbital changes are, and either his claim will be confirmed or refuted. There is no third option and no need for "three other aspects." Either you will accept the above test of his claim or you will ignore empirical evidence proving his claim right or wrong. Which will it be?
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

You can't brake the theory in pieces, you must consider all the effects that he states, gravitational and electric. That's what his theory is: electric. He states that the comet is huge, so it should perturbate Mars orbit and it's surface/atmosphere. That's what he claims, but you want to break it in pieces, and this is not a good scientific behavior.

The perturbation in the orbit could be small due to the distance, and we could need professional equipment to check that, which we don't have. But for atmosphere and general surface changing, like huge mountain building and maybe hundreds of volcanos going erupting is not so hard to check with good amateur equipment. Imagine Olympus and other volcanoes going off at the same time! It is huge enough, correct? And little dirty snow ball would never do that.
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
...

I could get into it with you again about McCanney's failed claims of the mass and size of Hale-Bopp, but I'll go farther than that instead and predict a future failure of his science compared to observations. When comet ISON makes its close approach to Mars at only 0.072 AU on October 1st, it will fail to detectably perturb the orbit of Mars despite McCanney's claims that it's a massive planet-sized object. Will you then agree that McCanney was wrong, yes or no?
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

It is a bet? Alright, you do the same, but there are three aspects to consider: radical surface/atmosphere changes after the comet passage,
 Quoting: glauco

No. That is not the prediction. He claims the comet is as massive as a planet. Either that is true or it is not. If it is true, it WILL cause a detectable perturbation in the orbit of Mars. Atmospheric events are not confirmation evidence of such a claim. Orbital changes are, and either his claim will be confirmed or refuted. There is no third option and no need for "three other aspects." Either you will accept the above test of his claim or you will ignore empirical evidence proving his claim right or wrong. Which will it be?
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

You can't brake the theory in pieces,
 Quoting: glauco

Either it's massive like he claims or it isn't. If it is it will detectably perturb mars. If it's not, it won't. You have two choices, you can either ignore the empirical data about the orbit of mars or you can accept it even if it proves McCanney wrong. Which will it be?
The perturbation in the orbit could be small due to the distance, and we could need professional equipment to check that, which we don't have.
 Quoting: glauco

Wrong. If it is as massive as he claims it will produce a detectable perturbation in the orbit. The equipment I use is more than good enough. That will all be shown when I present the empirical data. You can either ignore it or accept it. Which will it be? Answer the question. Yes or no?
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
Debating (fighting) with four at the same time! Bring more, you're all too weak, I can hold a lot more!
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
Dr. AstroModerator
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
Debating (fighting) with four at the same time! Bring more, you're all too weak, I can hold a lot more!
 Quoting: glauco


You're not answering a simple question, you're avoiding it and pathetically trying to make excuses. Answer the question, will you ignore the empirical data on Mars' orbit, yes or no? You demanded to see empirical data that disproves McCanney, I made a prediction of such data, but rather than accept the empirical data you demanded you are already making excuses and promises to handwave to unrelated nonsense when the empirical data proves you wrong.
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glauco

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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
Either it's massive like he claims or it isn't. If it is it will detectably perturb mars. If it's not, it won't. You have two choices, you can either ignore the empirical data about the orbit of mars or you can accept it even if it proves McCanney wrong. Which will it be?
The perturbation in the orbit could be small due to the distance, and we could need professional equipment to check that, which we don't have.
 Quoting: glauco

Wrong. If it is as massive as he claims it will produce a detectable perturbation in the orbit. The equipment I use is more than good enough. That will all be shown when I present the empirical data. You can either ignore it or accept it. Which will it be? Answer the question. Yes or no?
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Man, stop putting words in my mouth. McCanney said: "it is huge, so we may expect atmospheric and orbital changes". If you can bring informations regarding small to large orbital changes, that would be great, I didn't knew you're a professional. But what if you don't find any changes in it's orbit, but Mars turns to yellow, or green, or blue, or magenta, with thick atmosphere and hundreds of volcanos going off?? Will you ignore it? If so I prefer to say a big "NO", because I know Mars can't get a new colored thick atmosphere and all the volcanoes going off at the same time by himself!
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
glauco

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03/28/2013 08:34 AM
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
Debating (fighting) with four at the same time! Bring more, you're all too weak, I can hold a lot more!
 Quoting: glauco


Now going lunch.
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
Either it's massive like he claims or it isn't. If it is it will detectably perturb mars. If it's not, it won't. You have two choices, you can either ignore the empirical data about the orbit of mars or you can accept it even if it proves McCanney wrong. Which will it be?
The perturbation in the orbit could be small due to the distance, and we could need professional equipment to check that, which we don't have.
 Quoting: glauco

Wrong. If it is as massive as he claims it will produce a detectable perturbation in the orbit. The equipment I use is more than good enough. That will all be shown when I present the empirical data. You can either ignore it or accept it. Which will it be? Answer the question. Yes or no?
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Man, stop putting words in my mouth.
 Quoting: glauco

I did not put any words in your mouth. I explained why you are wrong and I asked you a question which you still have not answered.
McCanney said: "it is huge, so we may expect atmospheric and orbital changes". If you can bring informations regarding small to large orbital changes, that would be great, I didn't knew you're a professional.
 Quoting: glauco

I'm not a professional but it does not require a professional astronomer to accurately measure the position and orbit of Mars. Atmospheric changes are not confirmation that the comet is massive, atmospheres change all the time in the absence of comets. Orbital changes or the lack thereof are direct proof that the comet is either massive or is not massive regardless of what the atmosphere does. I will look for perturbations in the orbit of Mars and if they do not appear then the comet was not massive as McCanney claimed. You can either ignore that empirical data or accept it, which will it be? Answer the question.
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
Yes, correct. The problem was not with the theoretical work itself, because if you read them you will find out that it is theoretically correct. Understand it: the theoretical work (the model) may be well done, but the observations may not match with the model. So the model could be wrong, but theoretically correct. The problem with the University, as stated by him, is that his model was completely against the official model prepared by own Carl Sagan, the chief of the Astro Institute, his chief. You must consider it as a hard situation for the staff to keep McCanney theories being used and published just where something familiar had been debunked a few years before. No conspiracy needed, only politics.

 Quoting: glauco


Really?

LMAO
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Re: Comet C/2012 S1 ISON is Nibiru the great perturber.
What an excellent thread!
Thanks for your observations OP........

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