If you removed Jupiter from the equation Io would go dormant. Moons further from Jupiter are examples of less activity, though you couldn't call them dead either.
Quoting: Dr. Astro Yeah, I know, but is not the example I ask for you. Io is always changing, I want an example of a dorment planet or moon that started suddenly to show huge transformations in its atmosphere and surface, not a place where it is always changing!
Moving the goalposts. Here's what you originally said, word for word.
Give me only one example of a planet getting or losing large amount of atmosphere, or getting dozens of vulcans erupting, or getting new moutains by itself in one-week period and I do the bet in your conditions.
Quoting: glauco Your goalpost has been met. Now honor your promise and answer the question. It's not even a bet, it's a question, answer it.
Moving the goalposts. If you don't care that Io is a moon, and you have indicated that is not your problem with it, then your goalpost has been met. Now answer my question as you agreed to.
Quoting: Dr. Astro I said, I don't agree with Io.
Only because you're moving the goalposts. Your original goalpost was met, now do what you said you would do.
Considering you and your self-admitted layman knowledge, it will most likely be a case of chromatic aberration or poor white balance.
Quoting: Dr. Astro At least you would be able to check by yourself with your own cheap equipment. I would not be able to do the same in your conditions.
By the nature of what I'm going to do, astrometrically measure Mars' position in space, I will have images of Mars. But of course you will probably just whine some more that you're not able to get images of Mars in the manner that I am and therefore it's not fair, blah blah blah.
Whatever the case it will be irrelevant and have nothing to do with the mass of the comet which I will show is not at all like what McCanney claimed it was.
Quoting: Dr. Astro This have everything to do with the comet size. How to explain a planet gaining or loosing its atmosphere, getting volcanos going off, turning the surface color just after a close comet encounter if not by its size?? If small comets can do that, man I'm really concerned!
Maybe a large asteroid impacted it on the far side, maybe martians set off a massive nuclear bomb somewhere under the surface, maybe unicorn farts did it, whatever the case it would not require the comet to have a high mass and if Mars' orbit lacked perturbations then we would know the comet does not have much mass regardless of whatever else happens. You don't seem to understand what it means to prove something.
The question is whether you will ignore that empirical data or not. Yes or no?
Quoting: Dr. Astro If you don't ignore mine, I will not ignore yours.
Yes or no. I already explained why your hypothetical would not be confirmation of the comet's mass, especially in the presence of other evidence showing no perturbations of Mars' orbit.
No, I did not say that.
Quoting: Dr. Astro You almost did.
First you claimed I said it and now you claim I almost said it. Do you think you can read minds now? I didn't "almost" say it.
I don't care that you're incapable of doing the measurements yourself because that is your problem and has nothing to do with the real issue.
Quoting: Dr. Astro This is between me and you, so this really has something to do with the issue.
You're trying to make this personal. It's not. It's a simple question. Will you ignore the empirical data showing the comet's mass is nowhere near what McCanney claimed, yes or no? Whether you can personally make such measurements yourself is not the issue.
It is not a bet.
Quoting: Dr. Astro Yes, it is.
It is not a bet. It is a question. Your goalpost for answering the question was met, so answer it.
I did not ask you to wager anything,
Quoting: Dr. Astro Yes, you did, you ask me to abandon McCanney if no orbital changing occurs with Mars. This is a bet.
You're showing that your beliefs are religious and cultish in nature. It's a matter of personal allegiance to McCanney for you. I am asking if you would ignore the empirical evidence if it disagreed with McCanney. If your answer to that question is yes, so be it. I am not asking you to abandon McCanney, if you wish to believe him regardless of the empirical evidence that is your choice. I am asking you to be honest about it.
You can, there is nothing physically preventing you from doing so.
Quoting: Dr. Astro No equipment, no know-how. I guess I'm in a little disadvantage here.
That is irrelevant. Your ignorance and personal inability is not a valid excuse.
You can recheck my calculations if you like, even acquire your own data to recheck the results, that is up to you.
Quoting: Dr. Astro No, I can't.
All you are doing is admitting that you are unqualified to weigh in on this subject. Ignorance is not an excuse though.
Another irrelevant question, but yes of course I would take a picture of Jupiter if NASA said it began to shine like a star, I take pictures of Jupiter all the time anyway.
Quoting: Dr. Astro Nice, but I can't do the same with orbital movements.
That is your problem.
You still don't get it. This is not a bet or a competition. I did not ask you to wager anything, I only asked a simple question, will you ignore empirical evidence showing that the mass of the comet is not what McCanney claimed. Yes or no?
Quoting: Dr. Astro Yes, you did.
And again you show that this is a religious belief to you and you feel that I am threatening that belief.
Irrelevant. I'm pretty sure that services like itelescope.net are not banned in Brazil.
Quoting: Dr. Astro Never heard about. Will see if this is valid in this case or not. What if this thing gets offline just during ISON timeframe?
Other similar services exist, but even if one of their observatories is offline for a time they have two other complete sites that can offer services when weather allows. The exact date is not important; if it's offline the day you wish to check you can simply check the next day. Perturbations don't vanish, the orbit would stay changed, even a year later.
It's not a goddamn bet, it's a question of whether you will ignore the empirical data or not. If you want to check my calculations you're absolutely free to do so. Nothing is preventing you. Your ignorance is not a valid excuse. Answer the question.
Quoting: Dr. Astro It is a bet and I'm trying to make it just.
It's not a bet. It's a question.
You're the one putting words in my mouth. It's not a competition, bet, or game, it's just a question. Answer it.
Quoting: Dr. Astro You put words in my mouth and broke my small direct statements into smaller indirect ones.
I did not put a single word into your mouth. I broke your argument down into the important points and addressed them.
Yes, it is. You can't igore a little calm planet turning to an celestic inferno overnight just after a comet encounter.
Quoting: glaucoAsteroids, martians, unicorns, could be anything, would not prove the mass of the comet.
I will demonstrate that ISON's mass is not what McCanney claimed and the way to do that is by looking at what effect it does or doesn't have on Mars' orbit.
Quoting: Dr. Astro It is not enough. McCanney's claims about atmosphere and surface changing being more important than that, so if you want to debunk McCanney, you must do that in all directions.
It is enough. Either it has the mass he claimed and will perturb mars or it doesn't.
