Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 2,687 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 1,478,975
Pageviews Today: 2,259,174Threads Today: 764Posts Today: 14,641
06:29 PM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??

 
Spittin'Cesium

User ID: 14589973
United Kingdom
03/03/2013 10:19 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
By the way,the belt only lasted around a Month and was attributed to a Solar Prominence/Filament Ejection.

But I'd still contend there are issues with aspects of the Apollo Mission...ie. The Camera Film Protective Containers were made of Aluminum only and did not contain any Water etc. to help shield from Gamma Radiation.

Aluminum would only block Alpha/Beta Radiation so the Film should have been shot.

It wasn't,apparently.

Have I misinformed myself about the Films Protection?

Could be wrong.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


How much gamma is there? Do you realize that gamma is NOT blocked by the Van Allen belts? So any they might have encountered on the Moon (very low) is about the same as in low Earth orbit where they have taken pics with film since before man was in space.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


Gamma damages Film on Earth.

We've all seen it.

There is plenty of potential Gamma sources and a lot of time taken,all things considered...Where is the damage?

Do you know about the STS Film Protection experiments?

Here [link to ston.jsc.nasa.gov] .

Why not use the Hasselblads awesome design!?

Not once can I remember reading the Hasselblad mentioned?

I find that strange.

scratching
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


you didn't answer the question. The amount in orbit is about the same as on the Moon. The old Corona spy satellites had no gamma protection. Gamma sources just aren't as common as you think they are.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


Did you read my Comment?

Read the PDFs' main thrust?
The thing that hath been,
is That which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done:and there is no new thing under the Sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:1
Spittin'Cesium

User ID: 14589973
United Kingdom
03/03/2013 10:23 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
By the way,the belt only lasted around a Month and was attributed to a Solar Prominence/Filament Ejection.

But I'd still contend there are issues with aspects of the Apollo Mission...ie. The Camera Film Protective Containers were made of Aluminum only and did not contain any Water etc. to help shield from Gamma Radiation.

Aluminum would only block Alpha/Beta Radiation so the Film should have been shot.

It wasn't,apparently.

Have I misinformed myself about the Films Protection?

Could be wrong.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


How much gamma is there? Do you realize that gamma is NOT blocked by the Van Allen belts? So any they might have encountered on the Moon (very low) is about the same as in low Earth orbit where they have taken pics with film since before man was in space.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


Gamma damages Film on Earth.

We've all seen it.

There is plenty of potential Gamma sources and a lot of time taken,all things considered...Where is the damage?

Do you know about the STS Film Protection experiments?

Here [link to ston.jsc.nasa.gov] .

Why not use the Hasselblads awesome design!?

Not once can I remember reading the Hasselblad mentioned?

I find that strange.

scratching
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


you didn't answer the question. The amount in orbit is about the same as on the Moon. The old Corona spy satellites had no gamma protection. Gamma sources just aren't as common as you think they are. The shuttle had to "occasionally" (wording used in your report) deal with high energy radiation mainly because over the course of many missions it dealt with far more radiation than Apollo did. You still need to prove radiation would have been a problem on the relatively short Apollo missions. You haven't yet.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


Read [link to books.google.co.uk] .
The thing that hath been,
is That which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done:and there is no new thing under the Sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:1
Weasel_Turbine

User ID: 31859349
United States
03/03/2013 10:24 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
...


How much gamma is there? Do you realize that gamma is NOT blocked by the Van Allen belts? So any they might have encountered on the Moon (very low) is about the same as in low Earth orbit where they have taken pics with film since before man was in space.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


Gamma damages Film on Earth.

We've all seen it.

There is plenty of potential Gamma sources and a lot of time taken,all things considered...Where is the damage?

Do you know about the STS Film Protection experiments?

Here [link to ston.jsc.nasa.gov] .

Why not use the Hasselblads awesome design!?

Not once can I remember reading the Hasselblad mentioned?

I find that strange.

scratching
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


you didn't answer the question. The amount in orbit is about the same as on the Moon. The old Corona spy satellites had no gamma protection. Gamma sources just aren't as common as you think they are.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


Did you read my Comment?

Read the PDFs' main thrust?
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


The shuttle had to "occasionally" (wording used in your report) deal with high energy radiation mainly because over the course of many missions it dealt with far more radiation than Apollo did. You still need to prove radiation would have been a problem on the relatively short Apollo missions. You haven't yet.
How many of the thousands upon thousands of pictures from the shuttle had gamma radiation damage? Very few. How many entire missions had no appreciable radiation damage on the film? Most of them.

Last Edited by LHP598 on 03/03/2013 10:29 PM
If you have to insist that you've won an Internet argument, you've probably lost badly. - Danth's Law
Weasel_Turbine

User ID: 31859349
United States
03/03/2013 10:27 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
...


How much gamma is there? Do you realize that gamma is NOT blocked by the Van Allen belts? So any they might have encountered on the Moon (very low) is about the same as in low Earth orbit where they have taken pics with film since before man was in space.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


Gamma damages Film on Earth.

We've all seen it.

There is plenty of potential Gamma sources and a lot of time taken,all things considered...Where is the damage?

Do you know about the STS Film Protection experiments?

Here [link to ston.jsc.nasa.gov] .

Why not use the Hasselblads awesome design!?

Not once can I remember reading the Hasselblad mentioned?

I find that strange.

scratching
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


you didn't answer the question. The amount in orbit is about the same as on the Moon. The old Corona spy satellites had no gamma protection. Gamma sources just aren't as common as you think they are. The shuttle had to "occasionally" (wording used in your report) deal with high energy radiation mainly because over the course of many missions it dealt with far more radiation than Apollo did. You still need to prove radiation would have been a problem on the relatively short Apollo missions. You haven't yet.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


Read [link to books.google.co.uk] .
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


You can google but I'll bet you don't understand it. It is talking about a very low flux rate that would be dangerous to long term missions and colonies due to cumulative exposure. Hilarious that you're trying to say they didn't go to the Moon and using data discovered because they did go to try to prove it.
If you have to insist that you've won an Internet argument, you've probably lost badly. - Danth's Law
Spittin'Cesium

User ID: 14589973
United Kingdom
03/03/2013 10:30 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
...


Gamma damages Film on Earth.

We've all seen it.

There is plenty of potential Gamma sources and a lot of time taken,all things considered...Where is the damage?

Do you know about the STS Film Protection experiments?

Here [link to ston.jsc.nasa.gov] .

Why not use the Hasselblads awesome design!?

Not once can I remember reading the Hasselblad mentioned?

I find that strange.

scratching
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


you didn't answer the question. The amount in orbit is about the same as on the Moon. The old Corona spy satellites had no gamma protection. Gamma sources just aren't as common as you think they are. The shuttle had to "occasionally" (wording used in your report) deal with high energy radiation mainly because over the course of many missions it dealt with far more radiation than Apollo did. You still need to prove radiation would have been a problem on the relatively short Apollo missions. You haven't yet.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


Read [link to books.google.co.uk] .
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


You can google but I'll bet you don't understand it. It is talking about a very low flux rate that would be dangerous to long term missions and colonies due to cumulative exposure. Hilarious that you're trying to say they didn't go to the Moon and using data discovered because they did go to try to prove it.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


You think I'm stupid.

You total plonker.
The thing that hath been,
is That which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done:and there is no new thing under the Sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:1
Spittin'Cesium

User ID: 14589973
United Kingdom
03/03/2013 10:33 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
And by the way - I haven't stated we did not go to the Moon.

If you were not so preoccupied with the Title of the Thread you'd maybe understand what I am trying to say.

Name check,yes.
The thing that hath been,
is That which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done:and there is no new thing under the Sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:1
Weasel_Turbine

User ID: 31859349
United States
03/03/2013 10:35 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
And by the way - I haven't stated we did not go to the Moon.

If you were not so preoccupied with the Title of the Thread you'd maybe understand what I am trying to say.

Name check,yes.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


You appear to be trying to argue the photos should have been damaged by radiation. The title asks how we got there if we didn't know about some belt (that we went around anyway). It was posted by someone else but you're on this thread. If you haven't stated it you're strongly implying it. Maybe others would understand what you're trying to say if you just came out and said it instead of trying to play games.

Last Edited by LHP598 on 03/03/2013 10:48 PM
If you have to insist that you've won an Internet argument, you've probably lost badly. - Danth's Law
Weasel_Turbine

User ID: 31859349
United States
03/03/2013 10:36 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
...


you didn't answer the question. The amount in orbit is about the same as on the Moon. The old Corona spy satellites had no gamma protection. Gamma sources just aren't as common as you think they are. The shuttle had to "occasionally" (wording used in your report) deal with high energy radiation mainly because over the course of many missions it dealt with far more radiation than Apollo did. You still need to prove radiation would have been a problem on the relatively short Apollo missions. You haven't yet.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


Read [link to books.google.co.uk] .
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


You can google but I'll bet you don't understand it. It is talking about a very low flux rate that would be dangerous to long term missions and colonies due to cumulative exposure. Hilarious that you're trying to say they didn't go to the Moon and using data discovered because they did go to try to prove it.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


You think I'm stupid.

You total plonker.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


I didn't say that and I didn't think it. I do now. Typically those that resort to ad hominems do so because they have run out of everything else.

You still haven't answered how much gamma you think they would have been dealing with. Posting sources without comment just shows you can google.

Last Edited by LHP598 on 03/03/2013 10:38 PM
If you have to insist that you've won an Internet argument, you've probably lost badly. - Danth's Law
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35532100
United States
03/03/2013 10:37 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
I been lurking for years. You guys have not changed a note.

40 pluss years and no pics no new info no reliable old info nothing.

and you ignore words from the mouth of the only guy who could say only a little.

think people, think for yourself.......why no moon rovers?

because of the lie.
Weasel_Turbine

User ID: 31859349
United States
03/03/2013 10:39 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
I been lurking for years. You guys have not changed a note.

40 pluss years and no pics no new info no reliable old info nothing.

and you ignore words from the mouth of the only guy who could say only a little.

think people, think for yourself.......why no moon rovers?

because of the lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35532100


How cute that you think there were no rovers or that rovers are the best way to study the Moon. Russia sent a few rovers. Since Apollo there have been many mission to study the Moon. Your ignorance of their existence doesn't change that fact.

And no pics? So Selene, the LRO, etc. offered nothing?

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Last Edited by LHP598 on 03/03/2013 10:44 PM
If you have to insist that you've won an Internet argument, you've probably lost badly. - Danth's Law
Spittin'Cesium

User ID: 14589973
United Kingdom
03/03/2013 10:51 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


You can google but I'll bet you don't understand it. It is talking about a very low flux rate that would be dangerous to long term missions and colonies due to cumulative exposure. Hilarious that you're trying to say they didn't go to the Moon and using data discovered because they did go to try to prove it.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


You think I'm stupid.

You total plonker.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


I didn't say that and I didn't think it. I do now. Typically those that resort to ad hominems do so because they have run out of everything else.

You still haven't answered how much gamma you think they would have been dealing with. Posting sources without comment just shows you can google.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


I played no games...you also did imply insult.

My point was simple,where is the damaged Film?

Where is the proof that the Film had better protection than I claimed?

Finally,I posted the first PDF to show that there is major issues(was)with Near Space Film Protection and the second to show how a question like 'How much Gamma is there on the Surface of the Moon' has major issues due to the freak Nature of Radiation in Space/on the Moon.

Simple.
The thing that hath been,
is That which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done:and there is no new thing under the Sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:1
Spittin'Cesium

User ID: 14589973
United Kingdom
03/03/2013 10:56 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
I see literally Thousands of Radiation Damage artifacts on Film recorded and stored on Earth yet close to 0 on the Moon Film.

You don't see my problem here?

Olive Branch : )
The thing that hath been,
is That which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done:and there is no new thing under the Sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:1
Weasel_Turbine

User ID: 31859349
United States
03/03/2013 10:57 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
...


You can google but I'll bet you don't understand it. It is talking about a very low flux rate that would be dangerous to long term missions and colonies due to cumulative exposure. Hilarious that you're trying to say they didn't go to the Moon and using data discovered because they did go to try to prove it.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


You think I'm stupid.

You total plonker.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


I didn't say that and I didn't think it. I do now. Typically those that resort to ad hominems do so because they have run out of everything else.

You still haven't answered how much gamma you think they would have been dealing with. Posting sources without comment just shows you can google.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


I played no games...you also did imply insult.

My point was simple,where is the damaged Film?

Where is the proof that the Film had better protection than I claimed?

Finally,I posted the first PDF to show that there is major issues(was)with Near Space Film Protection and the second to show how a question like 'How much Gamma is there on the Surface of the Moon' has major issues due to the freak Nature of Radiation in Space/on the Moon.

Simple.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


I implied no insult.

Why should there be damaged film? You have yet to show the gamma was enough to be a problem. The first PDF says they had a problem on ONE mission and the problem was occasional. The second is about a very low flux rate phonomenon that would be an issue for very long stays.
If you have to insist that you've won an Internet argument, you've probably lost badly. - Danth's Law
Spittin'Cesium

User ID: 14589973
United Kingdom
03/03/2013 10:57 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
Just a tinee speck please : )

Really,it really doesn't take much,at all.
The thing that hath been,
is That which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done:and there is no new thing under the Sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:1
Weasel_Turbine

User ID: 31859349
United States
03/03/2013 10:59 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
I see literally Thousands of Radiation Damage artifacts on Film recorded and stored on Earth yet close to 0 on the Moon Film.

You don't see my problem here?

Olive Branch : )
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


Have you looked at every photo? Because quite a few do show damage of some type. Some have sunstrike. Some look foggy. A few I've seen have small streaks that has been speculated by some to be caused by the stray cosmic ray.

Where are you seeing the supposed "Thousands of Radiation Damage artifacts on Film recorded and stored on Earth"? Why do you think that is significant when there are many orders of magnitude of pictures taken on Earth compared to Apollo? Again, you have yet to prove there was a radiation issue enough to affect the film.

Last Edited by LHP598 on 03/03/2013 11:01 PM
If you have to insist that you've won an Internet argument, you've probably lost badly. - Danth's Law
Spittin'Cesium

User ID: 14589973
United Kingdom
03/03/2013 11:01 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
I see literally Thousands of Radiation Damage artifacts on Film recorded and stored on Earth yet close to 0 on the Moon Film.

You don't see my problem here?

Olive Branch : )
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


Have you looked at every photo? Because quite a few do show damage of some type. Some have sunstrike. Some look foggy.

Where are you seeing the supposed "Thousands of Radiation Damage artifacts on Film recorded and stored on Earth"? Why do you think that is significant when there are many orders of magnitude of pictures taken on Earth compared to Apollo? Again, you have yet to prove there was a radiation issue enough to affect the film.
 Quoting: Weasel_Turbine


No more of my time shall I waste.

Bye.
The thing that hath been,
is That which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done:and there is no new thing under the Sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:1
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35532204
United States
03/03/2013 11:01 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
outer space doesn't exist.
nomuse (not logged in)
User ID: 2380183
United States
03/03/2013 11:37 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
I see literally Thousands of Radiation Damage artifacts on Film recorded and stored on Earth yet close to 0 on the Moon Film.

You don't see my problem here?

Olive Branch : )
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


Oh, I see your problem.

An unwillingness to do hard numbers.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3088335
United States
03/03/2013 11:40 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
The world is flat.... Teehee
Spittin'Cesium

User ID: 14589973
United Kingdom
03/04/2013 12:22 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
I see literally Thousands of Radiation Damage artifacts on Film recorded and stored on Earth yet close to 0 on the Moon Film.

You don't see my problem here?

Olive Branch : )
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


Oh, I see your problem.

An unwillingness to do hard numbers.
 Quoting: nomuse (not logged in) 2380183


Me,a Mathematician,no.

Understands Radiation damages Film,yes.

Understands Space within the Solar System is loaded with Ionizing Radiation.

Understands the Moon is a Large Secondary Gamma Source on Earth,second(as a constant)to the Sun.

[link to science.hq.nasa.gov]

'Today, these gamma-ray bursts, which happen at least once a day, are seen to last for fractions of a second to minutes, popping off like cosmic flashbulbs from unexpected directions, flickering, and then fading after briefly dominating the gamma-ray sky' [link to science.hq.nasa.gov]

' The Crab nebula, shown also in the visible light image, was created by a supernova that brightened the night sky in 1054 A.D. In 1967, astronomers detected the remnant core of that star; a rapidly rotating, magnetic pulsar flashing every 0.33 second in radio waves.

Perhaps the most spectacular discovery in gamma-ray astronomy came in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Detectors on board the Vela satellite series, originally military satellites, began to record bursts of gamma-rays -- not from Earth, but from deep space'

'If you could see gamma-rays, the night sky would look strange and unfamiliar.

The gamma-ray moon just looks like a round blob - lunar features are not visible. In high-energy gamma rays, the Moon is actually brighter than the quiet Sun. This image was taken by EGRET' [link to science.hq.nasa.gov] .

Ffs.
The thing that hath been,
is That which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done:and there is no new thing under the Sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:1
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35538407
India
03/04/2013 12:47 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
Thread: Moon Landing WAS a HOAX!!!!
Spittin'Cesium

User ID: 14589973
United Kingdom
03/04/2013 12:52 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
Nomuse - Thank you,Vulture.

The rest of you,keep on hiding behind your Thumbswink

Discourse,try it.

:spacefinger:

shk
The thing that hath been,
is That which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done:and there is no new thing under the Sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:1
nomuse (not logged in)
User ID: 2380183
United States
03/04/2013 02:53 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
I see literally Thousands of Radiation Damage artifacts on Film recorded and stored on Earth yet close to 0 on the Moon Film.

You don't see my problem here?

Olive Branch : )
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


Oh, I see your problem.

An unwillingness to do hard numbers.
 Quoting: nomuse (not logged in) 2380183


Me,a Mathematician,no.

Understands Radiation damages Film,yes.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


How MUCH radiation damages what KIND of film how MUCH?

Are you aware that different speeds of film react differently to ionizing radiation? Do you know it was quite possible even during the days of foil bags and checked luggage to pass exposed film through airport X-rays and not have any noticeable degradation? Are you aware that the film significantly at risk is that which is exposed then stored for long periods undeveloped?

When you say "radiation damages film" you are saying the same as "water kills people." That doesn't mean the glass of water on my table is going to kill me (although it could, given the right chain of circumstances!)

Science is not word pictures. Engineering is not done with adjectives. If you can't quantify, then you are left trying to decide if "Significant" risk is bigger or smaller than "Adequate" protection. Or, worse yet, if "some" degradation of exposed film is equivalent to "I see marks on all the film."


Understands Space within the Solar System is loaded with Ionizing Radiation.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


Loaded is a loaded term. It is emotional, not informative. The surface of the Earth is loaded with radioactive materials (in relation to most other solar system bodies.) Does that mean lumps of pure U235 are lying around loose?


Understands the Moon is a Large Secondary Gamma Source on Earth,second(as a constant)to the Sun.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


Rubber bands are a fine power source for vehicles, second to compressed air. Doesn't mean either are that good. The Sun is a poor source of gamma rays. I'd have to do the numbers, but you'd probably put your film in more danger by laying a banana on top of it.


'Today, these gamma-ray bursts, which happen at least once a day, are seen to last for fractions of a second to minutes, popping off like cosmic flashbulbs from unexpected directions, flickering, and then fading after briefly dominating the gamma-ray sky' [link to science.hq.nasa.gov]

' The Crab nebula, shown also in the visible light image, was created by a supernova that brightened the night sky in 1054 A.D. In 1967, astronomers detected the remnant core of that star; a rapidly rotating, magnetic pulsar flashing every 0.33 second in radio waves.

Perhaps the most spectacular discovery in gamma-ray astronomy came in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Detectors on board the Vela satellite series, originally military satellites, began to record bursts of gamma-rays -- not from Earth, but from deep space'

'If you could see gamma-rays, the night sky would look strange and unfamiliar.

The gamma-ray moon just looks like a round blob - lunar features are not visible. In high-energy gamma rays, the Moon is actually brighter than the quiet Sun. This image was taken by EGRET' [link to science.hq.nasa.gov] .

Ffs.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


Yup. Gamma-ray astronomy (astronomers like to hyphenate the term). There is also infrared astronomy, and radio astronomy. Does that mean extra-terrestrial radio sources swamp everything on Earth, making even a simple cell phone call impossible? (Well, yes, it can happen -- space weather as well as local weather can cause significant interference.) But the sources tracked by radio astronomy....well, let us put it this way; is your cell phone antenna a 305-meter dish? (aka Arecibo). Or even a 40-meter dish? (aka Parkes).

Again, knowing that it is out there is nothing like knowing if it is strong enough to, say, harm a piece of film.
Just the facts! (OP)

User ID: 35428221
03/04/2013 03:13 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
As posted on another thread...

Look, In order to confirm all this one way or another why not just ask the Chinese who recently surveyed the whole moon?

I had heard a rumour that they had contacted NASA to confirm landing co-ordinates of the Apollo missions because they were having problems locating the landing sites?

Or, why not just turn the Hubble at it?

spock
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth"
#Geomagnetic_Storm#
"Amateur Meteorologist"

User ID: 1426914
United States
03/04/2013 03:18 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35538407


bonghit
Dr. AstroModerator
Forum Moderator

User ID: 33360181
United States
03/04/2013 03:25 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
As posted on another thread...

Look, In order to confirm all this one way or another why not just ask the Chinese who recently surveyed the whole moon?

I had heard a rumour that they had contacted NASA to confirm landing co-ordinates of the Apollo missions because they were having problems locating the landing sites?

Or, why not just turn the Hubble at it?

spock
 Quoting: Just the facts!


Dawes' limit. Look it up.
astrobanner2
Spittin'Cesium

User ID: 14589973
United Kingdom
03/04/2013 03:42 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
I see literally Thousands of Radiation Damage artifacts on Film recorded and stored on Earth yet close to 0 on the Moon Film.

You don't see my problem here?

Olive Branch : )
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


Oh, I see your problem.

An unwillingness to do hard numbers.
 Quoting: nomuse (not logged in) 2380183


Me,a Mathematician,no.

Understands Radiation damages Film,yes.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


How MUCH radiation damages what KIND of film how MUCH?

Are you aware that different speeds of film react differently to ionizing radiation? Do you know it was quite possible even during the days of foil bags and checked luggage to pass exposed film through airport X-rays and not have any noticeable degradation? Are you aware that the film significantly at risk is that which is exposed then stored for long periods undeveloped?

When you say "radiation damages film" you are saying the same as "water kills people." That doesn't mean the glass of water on my table is going to kill me (although it could, given the right chain of circumstances!)

Science is not word pictures. Engineering is not done with adjectives. If you can't quantify, then you are left trying to decide if "Significant" risk is bigger or smaller than "Adequate" protection. Or, worse yet, if "some" degradation of exposed film is equivalent to "I see marks on all the film."


Understands Space within the Solar System is loaded with Ionizing Radiation.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


Loaded is a loaded term. It is emotional, not informative. The surface of the Earth is loaded with radioactive materials (in relation to most other solar system bodies.) Does that mean lumps of pure U235 are lying around loose?


Understands the Moon is a Large Secondary Gamma Source on Earth,second(as a constant)to the Sun.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


Rubber bands are a fine power source for vehicles, second to compressed air. Doesn't mean either are that good. The Sun is a poor source of gamma rays. I'd have to do the numbers, but you'd probably put your film in more danger by laying a banana on top of it.


'Today, these gamma-ray bursts, which happen at least once a day, are seen to last for fractions of a second to minutes, popping off like cosmic flashbulbs from unexpected directions, flickering, and then fading after briefly dominating the gamma-ray sky' [link to science.hq.nasa.gov]

' The Crab nebula, shown also in the visible light image, was created by a supernova that brightened the night sky in 1054 A.D. In 1967, astronomers detected the remnant core of that star; a rapidly rotating, magnetic pulsar flashing every 0.33 second in radio waves.

Perhaps the most spectacular discovery in gamma-ray astronomy came in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Detectors on board the Vela satellite series, originally military satellites, began to record bursts of gamma-rays -- not from Earth, but from deep space'

'If you could see gamma-rays, the night sky would look strange and unfamiliar.

The gamma-ray moon just looks like a round blob - lunar features are not visible. In high-energy gamma rays, the Moon is actually brighter than the quiet Sun. This image was taken by EGRET' [link to science.hq.nasa.gov] .

Ffs.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


Yup. Gamma-ray astronomy (astronomers like to hyphenate the term). There is also infrared astronomy, and radio astronomy. Does that mean extra-terrestrial radio sources swamp everything on Earth, making even a simple cell phone call impossible? (Well, yes, it can happen -- space weather as well as local weather can cause significant interference.) But the sources tracked by radio astronomy....well, let us put it this way; is your cell phone antenna a 305-meter dish? (aka Arecibo). Or even a 40-meter dish? (aka Parkes).

Again, knowing that it is out there is nothing like knowing if it is strong enough to, say, harm a piece of film.
 Quoting: nomuse (not logged in) 2380183


You know and I know that Radiation is damaging to Film,I do not need to even really need to quantify that fact.

The issue is 'How Much' and 'What Kind'.

'[Moderator: Banned for denial of scientific expertise and substituting conspiracy hypotheses, confirmation bias and Dunning-Kruger overconfidence.]' [link to lofi.forum.physorg.com] <--- Have a read of that attempted discoursechuckle

These are the types of issues I want to understand better,I'd like to believe we went to the Moon after-all.

Excuse my lazy response,I'm knackered...and I am not a Film expert either.

sun
The thing that hath been,
is That which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done:and there is no new thing under the Sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:1
Just the facts! (OP)

User ID: 35428221
03/04/2013 03:50 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
As posted on another thread...

Look, In order to confirm all this one way or another why not just ask the Chinese who recently surveyed the whole moon?

I had heard a rumour that they had contacted NASA to confirm landing co-ordinates of the Apollo missions because they were having problems locating the landing sites?

Or, why not just turn the Hubble at it?

spock
 Quoting: Just the facts!


Dawes' limit. Look it up.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Still, doesn't alter the Chinese question!

spock
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth"
Dr. AstroModerator
Forum Moderator

User ID: 33360181
United States
03/04/2013 03:56 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
As posted on another thread...

Look, In order to confirm all this one way or another why not just ask the Chinese who recently surveyed the whole moon?

I had heard a rumour that they had contacted NASA to confirm landing co-ordinates of the Apollo missions because they were having problems locating the landing sites?

Or, why not just turn the Hubble at it?

spock
 Quoting: Just the facts!


Dawes' limit. Look it up.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Still, doesn't alter the Chinese question!

spock
 Quoting: Just the facts!

Yes, it does. Angular and spatial resolution limits still apply to probes as well. LRO is the only probe with an optic big enough to resolve the landing site equipment, even from orbit.
astrobanner2
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4126404
United States
03/04/2013 06:12 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: HOW did we get to the MOON if we didn't know about this??
I see literally Thousands of Radiation Damage artifacts on Film recorded and stored on Earth yet close to 0 on the Moon Film.

You don't see my problem here?

Olive Branch : )
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


Oh, I see your problem.

An unwillingness to do hard numbers.
 Quoting: nomuse (not logged in) 2380183


Me,a Mathematician,no.

Understands Radiation damages Film,yes.

Understands Space within the Solar System is loaded with Ionizing Radiation.

Understands the Moon is a Large Secondary Gamma Source on Earth,second(as a constant)to the Sun.

[link to science.hq.nasa.gov]

'Today, these gamma-ray bursts, which happen at least once a day, are seen to last for fractions of a second to minutes, popping off like cosmic flashbulbs from unexpected directions, flickering, and then fading after briefly dominating the gamma-ray sky' [link to science.hq.nasa.gov]

' The Crab nebula, shown also in the visible light image, was created by a supernova that brightened the night sky in 1054 A.D. In 1967, astronomers detected the remnant core of that star; a rapidly rotating, magnetic pulsar flashing every 0.33 second in radio waves.

Perhaps the most spectacular discovery in gamma-ray astronomy came in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Detectors on board the Vela satellite series, originally military satellites, began to record bursts of gamma-rays -- not from Earth, but from deep space'

'If you could see gamma-rays, the night sky would look strange and unfamiliar.

The gamma-ray moon just looks like a round blob - lunar features are not visible. In high-energy gamma rays, the Moon is actually brighter than the quiet Sun. This image was taken by EGRET' [link to science.hq.nasa.gov] .

Ffs.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


You are taking one image you do not understand and make wild assumputions from it. The Moon is not, directly, the gamma ray source. Read the paper from which the image came.

EGRET Detection of Gamma Rays from the Moon

The Energetic Gamma Ray Experiment Telescope (EGRET) on the Compton Gamma Ray Observatory has detected gamma rays from the Moon as it passed through the instrument field of view several times between 1991 and 1994. The average flux, (4.7 +/- 0.7) x 10(-7) ph(>100 MeV)/cm(2) s, and the energy spectrum of the lunar gamma radiation are consistent with a model of gamma ray production by cosmic ray interactions with the lunar surface, and the flux varies as expected with the solar cycle. Although the same processes may occur on the Sun, EGRET does not detect the quiet Sun. The upper limit, 3.0 x 10(-7) ph(>100 MeV)/cm(2) s, does not contradict calculations of the expected solar gamma-ray flux. Thus, in high-energy gamma rays, the Moon is brighter than the quiet Sun.

Cosmic rays interact with the soil and produce gamma rays. Also, the gamma ray flux is rather low.