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Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?

 
CelestialMaiden

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03/02/2013 08:06 PM

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Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
"Also, the man at peace with me, in whom I trusted,
Who was eating my bread, has magnified his heel against me"- Psalm 40:9
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 08:08 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
Yes he did know.but needed to let it all play out for us .
CelestialMaiden (OP)

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03/02/2013 08:11 PM

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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
Yes he did know.but needed to let it all play out for us .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35449333


so when Jesus spent all night in prayer to choose his apostles, he purposely chose one that he knew would betray him?
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 08:25 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
Yes he did know.but needed to let it all play out for us .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35449333


so when Jesus spent all night in prayer to choose his apostles, he purposely chose one that he knew would betray him?
 Quoting: CelestialMaiden


yes, that was the plan all along.
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 08:26 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
His name was Jewdus. Jew-dus. Enough said.
CelestialMaiden (OP)

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03/02/2013 08:30 PM

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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
Yes he did know.but needed to let it all play out for us .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35449333


so when Jesus spent all night in prayer to choose his apostles, he purposely chose one that he knew would betray him?
 Quoting: CelestialMaiden


yes, that was the plan all along.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11253729


so Judas was predestined?
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 08:30 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
John 17 - Jesus knew it was Judas...and Judas...contrary what a lot of people thing...was sentenced to eternal damnation. see verse 12

[link to www.biblegateway.com]
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 08:31 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
John 17 - Jesus knew it was Judas...and Judas...contrary what a lot of people think...was sentenced to eternal damnation. see verse 12

[link to www.biblegateway.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35096685
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 08:32 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
this is jesus



Understudy
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03/02/2013 08:37 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
JOHN
13:18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
13:19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.
Zombietard

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03/02/2013 08:39 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
Yes he did know.but needed to let it all play out for us .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35449333


so when Jesus spent all night in prayer to choose his apostles, he purposely chose one that he knew would betray him?
 Quoting: CelestialMaiden


yes, that was the plan all along.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11253729


so Judas was predestined?
 Quoting: CelestialMaiden


Yep, it was scripted.
One of the attributes of the Christian/Jew/Islamic god is omniscience, that is a basic tenet, it wouldn´t be THE GOD without that attribute.
It means, that he new now only Judas was the traitor, it knew how many hairs Napoleon had in his head in waterloo, when the sun will go red giant, what i´m drinking now, and if you or anybody else that has existed or will exist will be saved or not. And that from the beginning of time.
So, your entire (and everybody elses) existence is predestined, long ago before you were even conceived. Or your ancestors for that matter.
CelestialMaiden (OP)

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03/02/2013 08:42 PM

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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
this is jesus




 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20119379


that was intelligent, thanks
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 08:51 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
Predestined, or did he know, the freewill choice that Judas would have made.
CelestialMaiden (OP)

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03/02/2013 08:59 PM

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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
Predestined, or did he know, the freewill choice that Judas would have made.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35280651


"So, while the evening meal was going on, the Devil already having put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon to betray him"-John 13:2

instead of resisting, Judas yielded to Satan's influence
CelestialMaiden (OP)

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03/02/2013 08:59 PM

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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
Predestined, or did he know, the freewill choice that Judas would have made.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35280651


"So, while the evening meal was going on, the Devil already having put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon to betray him"-John 13:2

instead of resisting, Judas yielded to Satan's influence
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 09:05 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
and another one acted like he didn't even know him during his arrest...dude hadn't even digested the food he'd just easten.

people are just full of shit, to expect such behavior wasn't much of a stretch of the imagination.
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 09:06 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
His name was Jewdus. Jew-dus. Enough said.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35415793


More then enough said ;)
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 09:20 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
A lot of stuff is predestined.

I saw that Michael Tsarion guy years ago, or it was David Wilcock or something, trying to make God look bad by saying something like

"God himself said he hardened the heart of the Pharaoh. See, he is bad, he didnt let the Pharaoh let the Jews escape and forced him to suffer the plagues!"

But the thing is... if any of those "TPTB Scholars" had any understanding they would see that its clearly stated on the Bible somewhere else (Romans I think) that the dude was RAISED FROM BIRTH TO BECOME THE PHARAOH. So its not that "God had just hardened his heart". The whole thing was conducted by the invisible hand of God and thats how many things happen.

Years before one is born.

If they had any understanding of the Bible they would know there is no such thing as free will, equality or justice in the sense we were endocrinated to believe.


In that sense, JESUS knew in general lines the whole script.
He did everything written by the prophets of the old testament to fulfill the prophecies.

God and Jesus and the Angels they know much much more than they decided we needed to know for the purpose it was bestowed upon us.

The whole thing was simbolic, the real deal is fight the flesh/corruption, love God, endure until the end, so they can know you are of them. Jesus came to give the example. He knew exactly what he was doing. Most of the teachings on the Bible were thought and scripted and then played by the agents conducted by the invisible hand of God.

None was invented, but none just "happened by accident/coincidence". Few things happen, but many of the important things, that were supposed to convey teachings and messages that are going to repeat in the Latter Days (wich we are living now), wich is how they communicate the future with those who LIVED BY EVERY WORD OF GOD and developed a deep relationship with Jesus and went different stages of wisdom/understanding.

Even Satan itself is working for God. There is not a single thing that does not happen according to the Creator's will. The measure of free will you have, is given by him. And if with this measure of free will you have, you are self willed, then guess what?

Thats the real thing, you are allowed to do many things in life, but many people were born and raised to do specific things during specific times. Some with generations of antecedence. Thats how you can prove Jesus was the Messiah spoken of by the prophets. It wasnt even a question that Jesus was the messiah, but the jews are a disobedient and arrogant bunch. The only question was whether people would have the faith on the promise so as to endure the flesh through the corruption of life.

The whole thing about God deciding who is going to rule, when and how, and who is going to surpass them, etc.

The invisible hand is necessary to manipulate the test so that the test can actually be efficient, this is a direct influence on the will. Thats how some spirits/angels work as well. So you do have some people living with a measure of free will at specific times.

The 7.000 thousand elect for example, are virgins, how do you think this is possible that learned man who are tasked with the purpose of preaching the ever lasting gospels, all male adults, managed to remain virgins without some serious invisible hand of God in these wicked times?

Its like people read the Bible and dont realize that 100% of what is written on it is true and through it they can understand how God works, what is his design, what is our purpose, what is going on, when things are going to happen, who are the major players, etc. Its all there, hidden in plain sight.

Once you realize how God is like, you should bow down in fear and give glory to him on your own choice for your best interest or endure a thousand years and a few in the fiery furnace to maybe get the point.

A decent fraction of the Bible is about explaining people how foolish they are to think the things they think.

Right now, the invisible hand remains invisible for the majority of people, but soon, it will become visible and when it does, it will be for THE DAY OF HIS WRATH.
Understudy
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03/02/2013 09:27 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
Sorry if i cut short your thread, so i leave you with this one

PSALMS
22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

Did Jesus know that he was to be nailed to a cross?
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 09:30 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
Did Jesus know he had fallen angels around him?
Terrebonne
Pythagoras

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03/02/2013 09:45 PM

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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
Judas Iscariot – Traitor Or Hero? Journalist Publishes What Could Be Judas’ Secret Teachings


SAN FRANCISCO – In 2006 National Geographic’s release of the first English translation of an ancient text dated to the 2nd century AD, shook Christianity and the perception of the world’s most famous villain – it was The Gospel of Judas. Amidst religious controversy, it revealed that Judas was asked secretly by Jesus to betray him, and in doing so, fulfilled a divine role and plan. Read More:

[link to peggypgrube.wordpress.com]
Ozicell

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03/02/2013 09:46 PM

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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
It is my belief and understanding that Jesus instructed Judas in the betrayal and that Judas was an unwilling participant but followed his Lord's directions.

I have no proof so don't ask for any = this is just MHO and belief!
That which is - has already been, And what is to be - has already been. Quote: King Solomon.
Ozicell

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03/02/2013 09:47 PM

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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
Judas Iscariot – Traitor Or Hero? Journalist Publishes What Could Be Judas’ Secret Teachings


SAN FRANCISCO – In 2006 National Geographic’s release of the first English translation of an ancient text dated to the 2nd century AD, shook Christianity and the perception of the world’s most famous villain – it was The Gospel of Judas. Amidst religious controversy, it revealed that Judas was asked secretly by Jesus to betray him, and in doing so, fulfilled a divine role and plan. Read More:

[link to peggypgrube.wordpress.com]
 Quoting: Terrebonne


OK, I'll look into that, thanks for the link! hf
That which is - has already been, And what is to be - has already been. Quote: King Solomon.
S.O.S.

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03/02/2013 09:50 PM

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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
That is an affirmative!
SPAWN IS DEAD! LONG LIVE S.O.S. (Son of Spawn)!!!

Don't click it!!!! I'm warning you don't click that link.... no... no... STOP!!!!!

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Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 10:49 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
Did Jesus know he had fallen angels around him?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35461011


When Satan came to test him, it didnt looked like Satan was as aware as Jesus of what Jesus was doing or came to do.

But Jesus was certainly aware of EVERYTHING around him. He recognized Satan. He knews people's hearts and thoughts. He had the Holy Spirit on him, it was God in the flesh.

For example, Satan, It felt like he wanted to know whether Jesus was the real Messiah he tried to falsify in all civilizations ages ago with the limited knowledge he had (he knew God would sent a Messiah, he knew that much, so he attempted to orquestrate a religious coup d'etat with all the religions of the world, using the same symbols and story, but missed some key elements, so the characters he invented for each civilization with divided languages for a Messiah such as Tammuz, Balder, Khrisna, Bacchus, Quetzacoatl, etc ended up failing, because in the last minute, God decided his mother would be a virgin, and a bunch of other things that Satan overlooked.

Jesus actually fullfilled all prophecies from the Old Testament.

The fallen angels, some were locked in chains of Darkness. So the bulk of the powers were from the nephilim, humanoid spirits with animal heads and animal like spirits. Then recently, the fallen angels were released.

Jesus did preached to them when he died, so some of them did got a chance to redeem themselves. So there might be actually some good fallen angels, but it is said that most of them didnt heared, were disobedient.

At the time of Jesus, only Satan walked up and down, lo and fro on the earth and maybe a few of the fallen, I dont know, but most of the fallen were chained in the prison of darkness. So the fallen that existed at that time are those that fell LATER. Because other angels did fell AFTER God sent the waters to purge the earth from its corruption.

Before the End we will see them again and they will use their powers to deceive people, working miracles and wonders. Many of the miraculous cures you see in those suspicious christian churches are actually fallen angels, just like those spirit mothers Blavatsky spoke about.
Zombietard

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03/02/2013 10:53 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
Predestined, or did he know, the freewill choice that Judas would have made.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35280651


There´s not freewill, all what you or anybody else is going to do is predestined and YHWH knows it and always did.
If something were hidden from his knowledge, he would not be omniscient, and that contradicts his definition of Godhood.
CelestialMaiden (OP)

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03/03/2013 04:57 PM

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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
Predestined, or did he know, the freewill choice that Judas would have made.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35280651


There´s not freewill, all what you or anybody else is going to do is predestined and YHWH knows it and always did.
If something were hidden from his knowledge, he would not be omniscient, and that contradicts his definition of Godhood.
 Quoting: Zombietard


if everything we do is predestined, and there is no free will then why did Jehovah say THIS?:


I do take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today, that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring:- Deuteronomy 30:19
CelestialMaiden (OP)

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03/05/2013 01:20 PM

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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
It is my belief and understanding that Jesus instructed Judas in the betrayal and that Judas was an unwilling participant but followed his Lord's directions.

I have no proof so don't ask for any = this is just MHO and belief!
 Quoting: Ozicell


Need a scripture to prove THAT one
Nine's

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03/05/2013 01:40 PM
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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. John 6:64
CelestialMaiden (OP)

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03/06/2013 05:27 PM

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Re: Did Jesus know when he chose his twelve Apostles, that it would be one of them that would betray him?
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. John 6:64
 Quoting: Nine's


ohn 6:64: “From the beginning Jesus knew . . . who was the one that would betray him.” (Not from the beginning of creation, nor from the time of Judas’ birth, but “from the beginning” of his acting treacherously. Compare Genesis 1:1, Luke 1:2, and 1 John 2:7, 13, in each of which texts “beginning” is used in a relative sense. Take note also of John 12:4-6.)

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