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Sin Management

 
Azeratel Axo

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03/02/2013 09:12 PM
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Re: Sin Management
hmm

Addiction is the manifestation of oppression,

and not an inherent lack of free will.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/02/2013 09:16 PM
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Re: Sin Management
hmm

Addiction is the manifestation of oppression,

and not an inherent lack of free will.
 Quoting: Azeratel Axo


indeed
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/02/2013 09:18 PM
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Re: Sin Management
Salt, thanks as always for another valuable read.

For me, the nature of sin would have me isolated and alone so it can slowly erode my soul. As you wrote, it is through the breaking of that isolation - telling another person and God in the contemplation of, rather than after the fact and enactment of, the sin - that I am free.

In my experience, there is nothing worse than feeling apart from God and man. For me, that is the dark night of the soul.

Thanks for keeping the darkness visible (in this thread and in our other endeavor) and shing the light of love and truth.

On another note, it is no surprise you know of Dallas Willard. Like our friend Charles, Dallas has been a gift to me.
 Quoting: BxMac


thanks, brother. so glad to see you here. hf
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 09:21 PM
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Re: Sin Management
Awesome. Thank you.

Admit your sin before you do it. Great advice!
Spitting Into The Wind

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03/02/2013 09:22 PM
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Re: Sin Management
Read The Spiritual Man by Watchman Nee.

Last Edited by Spitting Into The Wind on 03/02/2013 09:22 PM
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/02/2013 09:22 PM
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Re: Sin Management
Spiritual Formation is what we want, not sin management


Towards a Biblical Definition of Spiritual Formation: Romans 12:1-2
Study By: Michael H. Burer
From the Series: Orientation to Spiritual Formation with Special Reference to the New Testament

Somewhat of a modern lexical invention, the term “spiritual formation” refers to a concept that is almost ubiquitous in Scripture. Because the term has only recently become widely used, an important task for scholarship at the present time is to define the topic properly and explain clearly how it should be expressed in a believer’s life. A logical, necessary question which should be asked to begin is, “Where exactly is spiritual formation taught in Scripture?” Answering this question can be difficult. The words “spiritual formation” do not occur in any English Bibles to which I currently have access, but this does not mean that the concept as a whole is invalid. A concept can be taught by a biblical text even if specific terms are absent since many different terms can be used to teach a concept.1 Such is the case with spiritual formation.

In my prior essay on this topic, “Orientation to Spiritual Formation with Special Reference to the New Testament,”2 I offered the following as a working definition of spiritual formation:

The short-hand definition I would offer could perhaps be worded as “the intentional transformation of the inner person to the character of Christ.” It is intentional in two ways: It is part of God’s will for the individual believer, and the individual believer makes a conscious choice about it; it is transformation in that it involves definitive, measurable growth in a certain direction; it involves the inner person in that it concerns itself with character, thoughts, intentions, and attitudes more than actions, habits, or behaviors; it has the character of Christ as its goal and standard of measure.

<snip>

Romans 12:1-2 Therefore I exhort you, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a sacrifice – alive, holy, and pleasing to God – which is your reasonable service. Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may test and approve what is the will of God – what is good and well-pleasing and perfect.

This passage stands out because of its reference to the concept of “transformation,”4 which is central to my synthetic definition of spiritual formation and to many other definitions of this concept.5 In this essay my goal is to explain the meaning of the passage in its context and then argue how this passage impacts a definition of spiritual formation.

[link to bible.org]
Life and Love

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03/02/2013 09:22 PM
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Re: Sin Management
Read The Spiritual Man by Watchman Nee.
 Quoting: Spitting Into The Wind


I like many of the things that Watchman Nee has written. They are quite challenging.
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 09:23 PM
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Re: Sin Management
We are pathetic, unworthy, sinful creatures. We are like a worm, in that GOD who is perfect, great, and all mighty extends his grace, mercy, and forgiveness regardless. He reaches his hand to us, and brings us to him... no matter how vile if you are aware of how vile you are, and do everything you possibly can to correct (your) wrongs.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/02/2013 09:23 PM
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Re: Sin Management
Read The Spiritual Man by Watchman Nee.
 Quoting: Spitting Into The Wind


you are not the first person to recommend this

i will add it to my reading pile
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/02/2013 09:24 PM
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Re: Sin Management
We are pathetic, unworthy, sinful creatures. We are like a worm, in that GOD who is perfect, great, and all mighty extends his grace, mercy, and forgiveness regardless. He reaches his hand to us, and brings us to him... no matter how vile if you are aware of how vile you are, and do everything you possibly can to correct (your) wrongs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15179094


as long as we are wrapped in skin and bone, we have sin nature in the DNA

there is no escaping that

we CANNOT manage our own sin
Life and Love

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03/02/2013 09:25 PM
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Re: Sin Management
Spiritual Formation is what we want, not sin management


Towards a Biblical Definition of Spiritual Formation: Romans 12:1-2
Study By: Michael H. Burer
From the Series: Orientation to Spiritual Formation with Special Reference to the New Testament

Somewhat of a modern lexical invention, the term “spiritual formation” refers to a concept that is almost ubiquitous in Scripture. Because the term has only recently become widely used, an important task for scholarship at the present time is to define the topic properly and explain clearly how it should be expressed in a believer’s life. A logical, necessary question which should be asked to begin is, “Where exactly is spiritual formation taught in Scripture?” Answering this question can be difficult. The words “spiritual formation” do not occur in any English Bibles to which I currently have access, but this does not mean that the concept as a whole is invalid. A concept can be taught by a biblical text even if specific terms are absent since many different terms can be used to teach a concept.1 Such is the case with spiritual formation.

In my prior essay on this topic, “Orientation to Spiritual Formation with Special Reference to the New Testament,”2 I offered the following as a working definition of spiritual formation:

The short-hand definition I would offer could perhaps be worded as “the intentional transformation of the inner person to the character of Christ.” It is intentional in two ways: It is part of God’s will for the individual believer, and the individual believer makes a conscious choice about it; it is transformation in that it involves definitive, measurable growth in a certain direction; it involves the inner person in that it concerns itself with character, thoughts, intentions, and attitudes more than actions, habits, or behaviors; it has the character of Christ as its goal and standard of measure.

<snip>

Romans 12:1-2 Therefore I exhort you, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a sacrifice – alive, holy, and pleasing to God – which is your reasonable service. Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may test and approve what is the will of God – what is good and well-pleasing and perfect.

This passage stands out because of its reference to the concept of “transformation,”4 which is central to my synthetic definition of spiritual formation and to many other definitions of this concept.5 In this essay my goal is to explain the meaning of the passage in its context and then argue how this passage impacts a definition of spiritual formation.

[link to bible.org]
 Quoting: Salt


From memory, the JB Philips translation puts Rom 12:2 this way, "Don't let the world squeeze you into its mold..." That is, from the outside in. Transformation is from the inside out and is the work of the Holy Spirit.

An aside: The word used for transform in Rom 12:2 is the same word used for transfigure and was applied to Jesus. THAT is how much formation is possible.
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/02/2013 09:28 PM
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Re: Sin Management
“You haven't yet opened your heart fully, to life, to each moment. The peaceful warrior's way is not about invulnerability, but absolute vulnerability--to the world, to life, and to the Presence you felt. All along I've shown you by example that a warrior's life is not about imagined perfection or victory; it is about love. Love is a warrior's sword; wherever it cuts, it gives life, not death.”
~Dan Millman, Peaceful Warrior



ohyeah
Life and Love

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03/02/2013 09:29 PM
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“You haven't yet opened your heart fully, to life, to each moment. The peaceful warrior's way is not about invulnerability, but absolute vulnerability--to the world, to life, and to the Presence you felt. All along I've shown you by example that a warrior's life is not about imagined perfection or victory; it is about love. Love is a warrior's sword; wherever it cuts, it gives life, not death.”
~Dan Millman, Peaceful Warrior



ohyeah
 Quoting: Salt


^^THIS^^ Maybe not the way I would express it, but the same sentiment I have used many times in many different ways.
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/02/2013 09:30 PM
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“You haven't yet opened your heart fully, to life, to each moment. The peaceful warrior's way is not about invulnerability, but absolute vulnerability--to the world, to life, and to the Presence you felt. All along I've shown you by example that a warrior's life is not about imagined perfection or victory; it is about love. Love is a warrior's sword; wherever it cuts, it gives life, not death.”
~Dan Millman, Peaceful Warrior



ohyeah
 Quoting: Salt


^^THIS^^ Maybe not the way I would express it, but the same sentiment I have used many times in many different ways.
 Quoting: Life and Love


i add this for those who do not understand the importance of the Christian walk just yet. it is a slightly different language saying precisely the same thing.
Debauchery

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03/02/2013 09:31 PM
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Re: Sin Management
I embrace sin..and then ask for forgiveness.

It works for me. thumbs
And the LORD spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it." Amen.
Life and Love

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03/02/2013 09:34 PM
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“You haven't yet opened your heart fully, to life, to each moment. The peaceful warrior's way is not about invulnerability, but absolute vulnerability--to the world, to life, and to the Presence you felt. All along I've shown you by example that a warrior's life is not about imagined perfection or victory; it is about love. Love is a warrior's sword; wherever it cuts, it gives life, not death.”
~Dan Millman, Peaceful Warrior



ohyeah
 Quoting: Salt


^^THIS^^ Maybe not the way I would express it, but the same sentiment I have used many times in many different ways.
 Quoting: Life and Love


i add this for those who do not understand the importance of the Christian walk just yet. it is a slightly different language saying precisely the same thing.
 Quoting: Salt


Yes. One of the things I have said is this: We have often heard that "it is more blessed to give than to receive," and indeed that is true. But many times it is far harder to receive than to give.

Take love for example. When we give love, we are in charge. We decide who to love, how to love, when to love, and even when to stop loving. But when we receive love we give up all that control and have to be vulnerable to the person giving love, per Millman's comment.

Our world is far, far too closed up. It takes courage to open one's heart, whether to God or to another person.
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
Life and Love

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03/02/2013 09:36 PM
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Re: Sin Management
I embrace sin..and then ask for forgiveness.

It works for me. thumbs
 Quoting: Debauchery


I suppose it's how one thinks of sin and defines what is sin.

Using non-religious terms, I say that "sin" is whatever keeps me or someone else from being fully alive. And I'd much rather be fully alive than the alternative.

hf
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 09:41 PM
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crazyjak
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03/02/2013 09:46 PM
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Re: Sin Management
What a good thread.

Right to the core:
After all i "believe"
Free will is on the first level, before the mind.

Like..your soul can choose, if you choose your body selfs /mind etc. as self or not.

Your soul can choose to get in relationship with god
but your mind will rebel and fear this.

It will only work if it is TRUE on every single topic within yourself. You can not a liar. Needs complete commitment.
You can choose to sin any minute, if you like, but you will lost the established connection to the path to him again.

I´m a sinner.
But i know, i have to stop this once and for all.
I know our brothers and sisters can not live together in a condition of sin.
dschis1000

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03/02/2013 09:48 PM

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Re: Sin Management
“You haven't yet opened your heart fully, to life, to each moment. The peaceful warrior's way is not about invulnerability, but absolute vulnerability--to the world, to life, and to the Presence you felt. All along I've shown you by example that a warrior's life is not about imagined perfection or victory; it is about love. Love is a warrior's sword; wherever it cuts, it gives life, not death.”
~Dan Millman, Peaceful Warrior



ohyeah
 Quoting: Salt


^^THIS^^ Maybe not the way I would express it, but the same sentiment I have used many times in many different ways.
 Quoting: Life and Love


i add this for those who do not understand the importance of the Christian walk just yet. it is a slightly different language saying precisely the same thing.
 Quoting: Salt


Amen, great stuff brother
oneLOVEsoulJAH

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03/02/2013 09:52 PM
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Re: Sin Management
Salt - Although my orientation to God and the word 'sin' is different from yours, I want to commend you on your well written, well expressed and well presented thesis on Sin Management.

I enjoyed reading what you wrote immensely, it was refreshingly honest and deep.

Thank you.

bumpbumpbumpbumpbump



oneLOVE
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/02/2013 09:53 PM
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Re: Sin Management
more from Dallas Willard

[link to nextreformation.com]


“The gospel of sin management produces vampire Christians who want Jesus for his blood and little else.” Dallas Willard, The Divine Conspiracy

We in the west shrunk the gospel in response to an increasingly individualistic, self-centered society. The good news of the kingdom went from a sweeping story of God’s mighty acts, His plan to reconcile all things to himself and restore creation, to personal life insurance. The cost has been enormous. We have more depression, guilt and shame than any other culture.

When we shrunk God and His agenda to fit our culture, we made the gospel unbelievable at some level. If God is so small, how can he really ensure any salvation? So it must be up to me.. my individual performance. This obviously works against grace and produces huge anxiety.

Moreover, it reduces salvation to a spiritual exchange divorced from life in this world. It makes salvation and God irrelevant to daily life. In a world increasingly aware of the interconnection between all things, this sacred-secular split is nonsense.

Rediscovering the nature of the gospel and the covenant God and His purpose in history is the only solution for our world, our only hope for some measure of justice, and the only possibility of peace, both inner and outer.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/02/2013 09:54 PM
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Re: Sin Management
Salt - Although my orientation to God and the word 'sin' is different from yours, I want to commend you on your well written, well expressed and well presented thesis on Sin Management.

I enjoyed reading what you wrote immensely, it was refreshingly honest and deep.

Thank you.

bumpbumpbumpbumpbump



oneLOVE
 Quoting: oneLOVEsoulJAH


[[humbled]]
thank you hf
Life and Love

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03/02/2013 09:55 PM
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Re: Sin Management
more from Dallas Willard

We in the west shrunk the gospel in response to an increasingly individualistic, self-centered society. The good news of the kingdom went from a sweeping story of God’s mighty acts, His plan to reconcile all things to himself and restore creation, to personal life insurance. The cost has been enormous. We have more depression, guilt and shame than any other culture.


 Quoting: Salt


An excellent book on this is "How God Became King" by N. T. Wright. I highly recommend it.

[link to www.amazon.com]
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 09:59 PM
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Re: Sin Management
Hamartia... or little sins, moral corruptions, that ultimately define your tragic flaw.

Cite Aristotle Oedipus Rex... or Shakespeare and the tragic lessons of Macbeth. And Antigone, the classic tragedies.

learn the diff between tragic flaws and moral errors.

I think you can learn a lot more about sin from these guys than the bible.
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 09:59 PM
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Re: Sin Management
Hamartia... or little sins, moral corruptions, that ultimately define your tragic flaw.

Cite Aristotle Oedipus Rex... or Shakespeare and the tragic lessons of Macbeth. And Antigone, the classic tragedies.

learn the diff between tragic flaws and moral errors.

I think you can learn a lot more about sin from these guys than the bible.
oneLOVEsoulJAH

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03/02/2013 10:01 PM
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Re: Sin Management
We are pathetic, unworthy, sinful creatures. We are like a worm, in that GOD who is perfect, great, and all mighty extends his grace, mercy, and forgiveness regardless. He reaches his hand to us, and brings us to him... no matter how vile if you are aware of how vile you are, and do everything you possibly can to correct (your) wrongs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15179094


Gosh, when I read this, I just wished I was in your physical presence - to give you a long loving hug. So please know, my soul is giving your soul an immense hug.

Why? I guess to hear another human being write that they feel that they are pathetic, unworthy, like a worm -

I guess my soul would like for you for a moment to feel what I feel in the presence of God's love - that I am made in the image and likeness of my Creator, that I am made of love, meant to express love - that my life is meant to be a holy prayer - all the time. That God's love is merciful and full of Grace even in the presence of the most immense suffering. That hope is a blessing and gift of God to our hearts and minds in the midst of suffering. Perhaps my soul is more the soul of a mystic - I have a long an abiding love relationship with my BELOVED God, the MOST HIGH.

I hope you won't take offense at my response to your posting, it was not meant to insult you or your beliefs in anyway, and if it has done so, please accept my humble apology.

oneLOVE

soulJAH
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2013 10:15 PM
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Re: Sin Management
too_sad

clappa
abhie

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03/02/2013 10:23 PM

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Re: Sin Management
Excellent thread Salt. 5*'s
hf
(I'm male, mid-40's, and live and work in India as a designer. Writing is a passion of mine, as is painting. My avatar represents my protagonist against the Illuminati -a female warrior.)
laotszungb
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/02/2013 10:23 PM
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Re: Sin Management
Excellent thread Salt. 5*'s
hf
 Quoting: abhie


thanks!

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