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Religion vs. Jesus

 
thisguyistheguy

User ID: 1266452
Canada
03/04/2013 11:47 AM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
"Why I hate religion and love Jesus"


Seriously?

1doh1
 Quoting: 1908247


Jesus isn't a religion.
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


I didn't say he was. This does not alter the meaning of my post tounge
 Quoting: 1908247


Perhaps I was confused with the face smack.
hf
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 11:48 AM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
The Bad Samaritan: Behind the Lies and Cover-ups about the Man Believed to be God

August 1, 2008 By davidjones
By LYNN PICKNETT & CLIVE PRINCE

It is remarkable what happens when you abandon your preconceptions about Christianity – hard though that might be, if, like us, you were brought up as a churchgoer – and approach the subject as objectively as possible.

When we began our latest book, The Masks of Christ: Behind the Lies and Cover-ups About the Man Believed to be God, we thought we had already reached certain conclusions in our 1997 The Templar Revelation: Secret Guardians of the True Identity of Christ (which Dan Brown acknowledges as a major inspiration for The Da Vinci Code). But as our research progressed we became enthralled – perhaps even a little shocked – by what we were faced with, but which only served to reinforce and clarify our previous conclusions.
We begin with a great mystery.

The Great Debate

Of the many puzzles surrounding Jesus, perhaps the most fundamental is the clash between the Jewish and pagan elements in his mission.

Certain New Testament passages are unequivocally hardcore Jewish nationalist, such as Jesus’ claim to the title of Messiah, a role which (despite Christians’ later redefinition) only makes sense in Jewish terms. The Messiah – ‘Anointed’, in Greek ‘Christos’ – was to be the great deliverer, who would reassemble and lead the twelve tribes of Israel in kicking out the Romans, before finally fulfilling God’s promise to extend their rule to all other nations.
Of course, Jesus conspicuously failed to fulfil that role. From the Jews’ perspective he achieved the exact opposite, spawning a religion that, in his name, subjected them to centuries of subjugation. That is why his besotted early followers changed the whole emphasis of ‘Messiah’, with Paul initiating the new spin with the notion that has underpinned Christianity ever since: instead of being a hard-nosed Jewish military leader, the new Messiah was a god-man whose redeeming death and resurrection offered eternal life to all who accepted him, regardless of their ethnic or religious background.
Yet the gospel writers still ensured Jesus was associated with the old prophecies of the Messiah, such as entering Jerusalem on a donkey, which was an unequivocal declaration of Messiahship.

Even though by the time of the gospels the Christian movement had adopted Paul’s doctrine that the message was for all mankind, clearly the internal evidence shows that Jesus himself intended to confine the ‘Good News’ to the people of Israel. We see this in the tale of Jesus and the Syro-Phoenician woman in Mark’s Gospel, where at first he refuses to heal her possessed daughter because she is not one of the chosen people – even calling her ‘dog’, the racist term used by Jews of Gentiles – only changing his mind when she implicitly acknowledges his God’s superiority. As several scholars admit, since this contradicts the gospel writer’s own position, it must be authentic.

Continue to read:
[link to www.newdawnmagazine.com]

hf
1908247

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03/04/2013 11:51 AM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
"Why I hate religion and love Jesus"


Seriously?

1doh1
 Quoting: 1908247


Jesus isn't a religion.
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


I didn't say he was. This does not alter the meaning of my post tounge
 Quoting: 1908247


Perhaps I was confused with the face smack.
hf
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


That was on purpose

(:

hf

Transmute meaning if you will, that is merely stimulation of the third eye house of our inner Christ.

See? Common universe laws applied in a microcosmic post.
- ? Nus.

-You Hold Witness I Witness

As if he could, by himself, say:
_Alive, therefore life itself.
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 11:52 AM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
"Why I hate religion and love Jesus"


Seriously?

1doh1
 Quoting: 1908247


Jesus isn't a religion.
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


correct. he is the founder of one.
 Quoting: Oyster


Is he the founder? Or the inspiration for one?

If you take your bible that seriously - please explain why God went from hating (old testament) to loving (new testament)....When us humans deserve no love from such a being.
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


good point! the inspiration would be a better title.

the latter i cant really explain other than the organizers of the new church wanted god to be painted in a different light.
RaXz

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03/04/2013 11:54 AM

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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
Never liked religion, but I don't where I would be now without Jesus, pulled me through some dark times and still does, makes me feel less alone in a cold world. Even got kinda exiled from a Christian forum, didn't like my music taste and didn't like my talk about the good qualities of cannabis while I was only trying to share with good intentions.
"The salvation of this human world lies nowhere else than in the human heart, in the human power to reflect, in human meekness and human responsibility." –Václav Havel

"Modern man must descend the spiral of his own absurdity to the lowest point; only then can he look beyond it. It is obviously impossible to get around it, jump over it, or simply avoid it." –Václav Havel
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 11:56 AM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
sheepsheepsheepsheepsheepsheepsheepsheepsheepsheep
1908247

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03/04/2013 11:56 AM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
Here lies wisdom. I ask to please not quote hf


----edited----

Last Edited by 1908247 on 03/04/2013 12:06 PM
- ? Nus.

-You Hold Witness I Witness

As if he could, by himself, say:
_Alive, therefore life itself.
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 11:59 AM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
Jesus IS religion.. you're worshiping a man who claims he's God. But your conscious has made a million silent agreements that no one can ever talk you out of, even if they're true.. dogma has stolen your soul and you never saw it coming. I'll grin with delight when stars truly start falling from the heavens one of these days and fire sweeps clean the earth of all this religious sickness. We could have been SO much more together, achieved such great things in the name of unity and peace.
 Quoting: AbsolveUsAll


Yup
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 12:00 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
"Why I hate religion and love Jesus"


Seriously?

1doh1
 Quoting: 1908247


Jesus isn't a religion.
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


correct. he is the founder of one.
 Quoting: Oyster


Is he the founder? Or the inspiration for one?

If you take your bible that seriously - please explain why God went from hating (old testament) to loving (new testament)....When us humans deserve no love from such a being.
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


I like that verse in the OT that says "I am the LORD, and without me, there is no Saviour..."

Either He provides the Savior, or He provides what you have to be saved from...


Hmmm...
Seek Truth

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03/04/2013 12:03 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
I was born many years ago.. In my life I have been many things.

I have been Son, Brother, Friend, Enemy, Lover, Thief, I have been Employee, Employer, Pedestrian, Driver, Soldier, Civilian. I have been Loved one, Hated rival, Wise man, Fool!

All these things I have been, Yet I am simply just man!

I cannot create worlds, I cannot create time, I cannot create all the things that we bear witness to. But if one can create all these things? I would have little doubt that he could be many more things than I could ever dream of!

As we communicate I have no right to tell you what you may or may not be or become! That is truly your choice by your skill and devotion! For in my heart I understand you can be as great as any man. or as foolish as any man! For who am I to tell you your limitations!

And who am I to tell a creator their Limitations!

I will cheer your successes. I will weep with your failures. But I will never limit you... I will never tell you that you can't! It is not my right! As I give you these privilege's, so I give that which created all the same respect! But that is my choice!

Peace
Seek Truth
Think... It's not as hard as you think!
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 12:04 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
The Bad Samaritan: Behind the Lies and Cover-ups about the Man Believed to be God

August 1, 2008 By davidjones
By LYNN PICKNETT & CLIVE PRINCE

It is remarkable what happens when you abandon your preconceptions about Christianity – hard though that might be, if, like us, you were brought up as a churchgoer – and approach the subject as objectively as possible.

When we began our latest book, The Masks of Christ: Behind the Lies and Cover-ups About the Man Believed to be God, we thought we had already reached certain conclusions in our 1997 The Templar Revelation: Secret Guardians of the True Identity of Christ (which Dan Brown acknowledges as a major inspiration for The Da Vinci Code). But as our research progressed we became enthralled – perhaps even a little shocked – by what we were faced with, but which only served to reinforce and clarify our previous conclusions.
We begin with a great mystery.

The Great Debate

Of the many puzzles surrounding Jesus, perhaps the most fundamental is the clash between the Jewish and pagan elements in his mission.

Certain New Testament passages are unequivocally hardcore Jewish nationalist, such as Jesus’ claim to the title of Messiah, a role which (despite Christians’ later redefinition) only makes sense in Jewish terms. The Messiah – ‘Anointed’, in Greek ‘Christos’ – was to be the great deliverer, who would reassemble and lead the twelve tribes of Israel in kicking out the Romans, before finally fulfilling God’s promise to extend their rule to all other nations.
Of course, Jesus conspicuously failed to fulfil that role. From the Jews’ perspective he achieved the exact opposite, spawning a religion that, in his name, subjected them to centuries of subjugation. That is why his besotted early followers changed the whole emphasis of ‘Messiah’, with Paul initiating the new spin with the notion that has underpinned Christianity ever since: instead of being a hard-nosed Jewish military leader, the new Messiah was a god-man whose redeeming death and resurrection offered eternal life to all who accepted him, regardless of their ethnic or religious background.
Yet the gospel writers still ensured Jesus was associated with the old prophecies of the Messiah, such as entering Jerusalem on a donkey, which was an unequivocal declaration of Messiahship.

Even though by the time of the gospels the Christian movement had adopted Paul’s doctrine that the message was for all mankind, clearly the internal evidence shows that Jesus himself intended to confine the ‘Good News’ to the people of Israel. We see this in the tale of Jesus and the Syro-Phoenician woman in Mark’s Gospel, where at first he refuses to heal her possessed daughter because she is not one of the chosen people – even calling her ‘dog’, the racist term used by Jews of Gentiles – only changing his mind when she implicitly acknowledges his God’s superiority. As several scholars admit, since this contradicts the gospel writer’s own position, it must be authentic.

Continue to read:
[link to www.newdawnmagazine.com]

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35542132


Haha funny the title is "the lies and coverups"... thats what the world has been trying to do about Jesus since He walked on the earth.

The truth will be known to all mankind

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

You still have time...
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 12:10 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
Jesus was a rumour spread by the weak.
thisguyistheguy

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03/04/2013 12:21 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
Jesus was a rumour spread by the weak.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33809069


The path to salvation/enlightenment/peace are not all the same paths.

How you get there and how I get there are different.
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 12:23 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
Jesus was a rumour spread by the weak.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33809069


The path to salvation/enlightenment/peace are not all the same paths.

How you get there and how I get there are different.
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


If you get there and he gets there, and you have different paths, you have different experiences. So how could you possibly know you have the same enlightenment.

I fucking hate the Sixties.
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
03/04/2013 12:24 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
GO AWAY
GO AWAY
GO AWAY
WITH YOUR STUPID GOD SHIT
thisguyistheguy

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03/04/2013 12:27 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
Jesus was a rumour spread by the weak.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33809069


The path to salvation/enlightenment/peace are not all the same paths.

How you get there and how I get there are different.
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


If you get there and he gets there, and you have different paths, you have different experiences. So how could you possibly know you have the same enlightenment.

I fucking hate the Sixties.
 Quoting: Obsequious Pachyderm


If we went from point A to point B with different paths we will both end up at point B...The same point B.

Whereas the enlightenment we all seem to desire would be the same feeling..Or awakening.
thisguyistheguy

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03/04/2013 12:27 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
GO AWAY
GO AWAY
GO AWAY
WITH YOUR STUPID GOD SHIT
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34765812


No Atheist in a foxhole.
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 12:27 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
This Jesus guy tasted of death for every man. That's what it says.

This is like sampling ten million poisons at once, your body will go crazy, maybe your heart arrests, but with all those poisons in you, something is going to combine and shock you back to life.

The Joshua concept was that every part of life that brings a man's spirit low and eventually to death had a role in Joshua's life. Therefore, he had a taste of death for every man and became The Way.

Gotta have all the digits to dial the phone number, and he had them all... Owning a phone does not enlightenment make.
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 12:27 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
The Bible says Jesus is the way, not religion is the way.

Jesus didnt die for us so that we could have a religion.

Jesus didnt "found" or establish a religion, man did!

Jesus said to pick up your cross and follow him, not pick up some phoney baloney religious attitude and follow religion.

Jesus is about relationship, not religion. Religion divides us.

Jesus never said we had to pick and choose which religion we want to join. So why are there so many religions today?

The mormons say they are the "only true" religion. But there is only 1 Jesus and only one way and He is the way. It doesnt matter who you are or where you are nor should it matter which church you belong to so long as you are following Jesus.

Religion is about control and manipulation, Jesus is about love and understanding.

Religion says that you need good works and religious rituals to get into Heaven, the blood of Jesus is the true way into Heaven for those that repent and accept the Lord as their saviour.

There is just so much more, I'm sure.
But thats all that comes to mind right now.

hf
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 12:31 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
The Bible says Jesus is the way, not religion is the way.

Jesus didnt die for us so that we could have a religion.

Jesus didnt "found" or establish a religion, man did!

Jesus said to pick up your cross and follow him, not pick up some phoney baloney religious attitude and follow religion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35561462


And if even half the followers of Christianity had done so, we could have a glut of enlightening identical spiritual sources, each of them doing immeasurable good.

On this pissant world though, people won't even give a dying woman CPR and simply because all religions can be bought in book form, and they have seen the book themselves, everyone is on the "equal path to enlightment." Even though only one guy covered the whole ticket while saying: "YOU HAVE TO DO THIS TOO TO FOLLOW ME..."

Yall are gonna hurt later.
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 12:32 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
GO AWAY
GO AWAY
GO AWAY
WITH YOUR STUPID GOD SHIT
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34765812


Thank you for supplying us with your monkey shit. Please now, for contrast, provide some "smart" God shit.
thisguyistheguy

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03/04/2013 12:34 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
The Bible says Jesus is the way, not religion is the way.

Jesus didnt die for us so that we could have a religion.

Jesus didnt "found" or establish a religion, man did!

Jesus said to pick up your cross and follow him, not pick up some phoney baloney religious attitude and follow religion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35561462


And if even half the followers of Christianity had done so, we could have a glut of enlightening identical spiritual sources, each of them doing immeasurable good.

On this pissant world though, people won't even give a dying woman CPR and simply because all religions can be bought in book form, and they have seen the book themselves, everyone is on the "equal path to enlightment." Even though only one guy covered the whole ticket while saying: "YOU HAVE TO DO THIS TOO TO FOLLOW ME..."

Yall are gonna hurt later.
 Quoting: Obsequious Pachyderm

I believe MANY are hurting right now.

Look at how many pills people need to take just to get through a day of reality.
BOWMAN

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03/04/2013 12:35 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
This is not to bash all christian churches because there are some amazing and wonderful churches out there.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Do you have an "approved list" of acceptable churches? scratching


------
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 12:36 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
Jesus was a rumour spread by the weak.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33809069


The path to salvation/enlightenment/peace are not all the same paths.

How you get there and how I get there are different.
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


If you get there and he gets there, and you have different paths, you have different experiences. So how could you possibly know you have the same enlightenment.

I fucking hate the Sixties.
 Quoting: Obsequious Pachyderm


If we went from point A to point B with different paths we will both end up at point B...The same point B.

Whereas the enlightenment we all seem to desire would be the same feeling..Or awakening.
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


In Englishville, with a two letter alphabet, with no numerical sequencing, maybe.

Truth is, people on Earth do not have enlightenment in any significant quantity, which is why they say they all will get there and ascribe some flippant definitions as destination "A" and destination "B" for a singular concept.

A IS NOT B and it never will be. One comes first.
thisguyistheguy

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03/04/2013 12:38 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
...


The path to salvation/enlightenment/peace are not all the same paths.

How you get there and how I get there are different.
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


If you get there and he gets there, and you have different paths, you have different experiences. So how could you possibly know you have the same enlightenment.

I fucking hate the Sixties.
 Quoting: Obsequious Pachyderm


If we went from point A to point B with different paths we will both end up at point B...The same point B.

Whereas the enlightenment we all seem to desire would be the same feeling..Or awakening.
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


In Englishville, with a two letter alphabet, with no numerical sequencing, maybe.

Truth is, people on Earth do not have enlightenment in any significant quantity, which is why they say they all will get there and ascribe some flippant definitions as destination "A" and destination "B" for a singular concept.

A IS NOT B and it never will be. One comes first.
 Quoting: Obsequious Pachyderm



I don't mean to sound too basic - I was just using a metaphor.

It seems as if enlightenment is connecting to Christ Consciousness (which has nothing to do with Jesus)
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 12:38 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
You seem to be wanting to make the point that one can be a Christian without an established form of worship shared by others (a religion). However, this goes contrary to Scriptures... contrary to words Jesus himself, and later other inspired Bible writers, proclaimed.

For example, on the night before he died in prayer to his heavenly father, Jesus made a fervent request pertaining to the importance of unity of his disciples:

John 17:20,21 "I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth"

Also, Paul's words at 1 Corinthians 1:10: "Now I exhort YOU, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that YOU should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among YOU, but that YOU may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.

Unity in worship is a rare thing indeed amongst today's churches... even those of the supposedly same denomination. Yet, how were Christians supposed to carry on doing God's will if they weren't united?

Matthew 28:19, 20: "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."

And once new disciples were made, how were Christians supposed to help one another and encourage one another to be faithful and the doing of fine works if there wasn't a united religion (or unity in worship)?

Heb 10:24,25 "And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as YOU behold the day drawing near."

Therefore, the Bible teaches that those who would follow Jesus in truth would be a united worldwide organization (or religion; ie, form of worship) modeled after that of the first-century Christians. There can only be one true faith. (Ephesians chapter 4)

How would you recognize them?
Matt 7:20 "Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men]."... as an organization, they would stand out.
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 12:40 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
Jesus was a rumour spread by the weak.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33809069


The path to salvation/enlightenment/peace are not all the same paths.

How you get there and how I get there are different.
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Theres only one way to eternal life
thisguyistheguy

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03/04/2013 12:42 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
Jesus was a rumour spread by the weak.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33809069


The path to salvation/enlightenment/peace are not all the same paths.

How you get there and how I get there are different.
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Theres only one way to eternal life
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35560975


What does eternal afterlife and enlightenment in this reality have to do with one another?

There are PLENTY of teaching before Jesus claiming ways to reach enlightenment - I guess they're the work of Satan eh?
Anonymous Coward
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03/04/2013 12:42 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
You seem to be wanting to make the point that one can be a Christian without an established form of worship shared by others (a religion). However, this goes contrary to Scriptures... contrary to words Jesus himself, and later other inspired Bible writers, proclaimed.

For example, on the night before he died in prayer to his heavenly father, Jesus made a fervent request pertaining to the importance of unity of his disciples:

John 17:20,21 "I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth"

Also, Paul's words at 1 Corinthians 1:10: "Now I exhort YOU, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that YOU should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among YOU, but that YOU may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.

Unity in worship is a rare thing indeed amongst today's churches... even those of the supposedly same denomination. Yet, how were Christians supposed to carry on doing God's will if they weren't united?

Matthew 28:19, 20: "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."

And once new disciples were made, how were Christians supposed to help one another and encourage one another to be faithful and the doing of fine works if there wasn't a united religion (or unity in worship)?

Heb 10:24,25 "And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as YOU behold the day drawing near."

Therefore, the Bible teaches that those who would follow Jesus in truth would be a united worldwide organization (or religion; ie, form of worship) modeled after that of the first-century Christians. There can only be one true faith. (Ephesians chapter 4)

How would you recognize them?
Matt 7:20 "Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men]."... as an organization, they would stand out.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23801109


You are not ONE or even close to anything resembling ONE unless you are secure without your church. It has a place in this process, much the same as boot camp has a place in warfare.

Nowadays, the world is all boot camp, and no actual war. So why invest in soldiers anymore?

I've said it a million times in no uncertian terms, this is a misbirth and abomination among all things that exist. There is very little about this world and the current structure that should be looked to in any way for a template.

Worst. Case. Scenario.
MHz

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03/04/2013 12:47 PM
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Re: Religion vs. Jesus
...because there are some amazing and wonderful churches out there. But, for those who can't find one, or are not ready to go there for whatever reason, you can find Jesus today right where you are now.

 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa

Those same people would be from the Flock and the Clergy and their judgment does not consider belonging to a 'club' to be important past a certain point. Because they are a group that considers themselves 'more blessed' than a believer without a 'group' if any sinners are found to be in the Church and no effort is made to exile them the whole church is considered to be in sin and they are removed from having life during the 1,000 years. There is a 'remnant of Gentile' that are gathered before the main bunch, same with the 12 Tribes, the OT Prophets that were resurrected on the morning of the return are the first of what will be the whole 12 tribes going back to Abraham's children. The return is the day the 'remnant' are resurrected.

The book is as close as you are going to get in the period between Luke:21:24 and Re:11 and the 42 remaining months of the time of the Gentile. The relationships in the 7 letters are what God will judge all Gentiles by that are alive on the day of return, that is the same for everybody in church and out of church. Repenting would be how you 'cross the floor' from needing to overcome to being an overcomer and moving from the 2/3 that are destined to die to being in the 1/3 that remain alive. It is based on individual relationship rather than being lucky enough to be in a selective group.

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