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The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists

 
Anonymous Coward
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03/09/2013 09:27 AM
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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
No.

The Zionists are the ones attempting to cock block the revolution and lead it into dead ends.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35620061


^this. why are they so eager to take our guns, if they want a 2nd american revolution? your argument fails OP.
Manu-Koelbren

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03/09/2013 11:16 AM
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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
How can it be unsupported? Jews are a minority group and have been involved in all the greatest events of history usually in nations they didn't belonged to, we're talking about thousands of years here. For this they've been deported from hundreds of nations. Isn't it time to stop ignoring the elephant in the room?
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


That's unsupported, and is an example of the over-generalization that occurs whenever people blame "Jews" or "Zionists" for things.
 Quoting: Alethian


I could write a very long post and prove you wrong, but I'd be wasting my time, you're smart enough to know you're in denial about this. Philosemitism is a very tough thing to beat, the indoctrination is strong from early age .
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


That is a shocking degree of arrogance. There's no point debating this Zionism stuff, and I wanted to register my vocal disagreement more than anything else.
 Quoting: Alethian


Zionism is but one particular Jewish phenomenon, Jews however have been prominent in all major conflicts and involved usually in very obnoxious ways in all the key events of the greatest human civilizations. I know it hurts to admit it because most of your libertarian heroes were Jews but they've been selling you half truths only. We've talked about this before, these Jews tell you how great liberty is and then tell you that we should all be judged as individuals. Then they tell you that individual rights means that borders are state sponsored oppression and when you open the border these same Jews come hard with their ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality and end up owning everything in less than a century.

It's a swindle bro, it's a fraud, liberty is great, individualism is great, but not among those who want to use it to weaken nations and then take over them by wielding a strong tribal mentality.
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
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03/09/2013 11:30 AM
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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
I often see people remarking that another revolution will somehow fix things in America, thetruth is that the same Zionists who backed the Bolsheviks in Russia are the ones trying to make the same happen here in US, and what follows (as in the case of Ussr) is confiscation of private property and mass extermination of the population aswell as prison camps (built and ready by fema), so can we offer a more logical solution other than a Jesuit sponsored takeover?Idol1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6712969


propoganda
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35431540


the 1st revolution was orchestrated by freemasons from the Green Dragon tavern in Boston

your ignorance is your downfall
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19221662


They were bigger than just Boston. The Founding Fathers had been working on this for decades, especially Ben Franklin. He was heavily involve in the Masonic Lodges in the UK, France and Scotland.

In May of 1775 the Bavarian Illuminati was formed, and that movement led to both the American and French Revolutions.


But Boston I believe was the first shots fired in the greater war. When British soldiers tried to confiscate firearms from the colonists...
Anonymous Coward
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03/09/2013 11:45 AM
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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
...


That's unsupported, and is an example of the over-generalization that occurs whenever people blame "Jews" or "Zionists" for things.
 Quoting: Alethian


I could write a very long post and prove you wrong, but I'd be wasting my time, you're smart enough to know you're in denial about this. Philosemitism is a very tough thing to beat, the indoctrination is strong from early age .
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


That is a shocking degree of arrogance. There's no point debating this Zionism stuff, and I wanted to register my vocal disagreement more than anything else.
 Quoting: Alethian


Zionism is but one particular Jewish phenomenon, Jews however have been prominent in all major conflicts and involved usually in very obnoxious ways in all the key events of the greatest human civilizations. I know it hurts to admit it because most of your libertarian heroes were Jews but they've been selling you half truths only. We've talked about this before, these Jews tell you how great liberty is and then tell you that we should all be judged as individuals. Then they tell you that individual rights means that borders are state sponsored oppression and when you open the border these same Jews come hard with their ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality and end up owning everything in less than a century.

It's a swindle bro, it's a fraud, liberty is great, individualism is great, but not among those who want to use it to weaken nations and then take over them by wielding a strong tribal mentality.
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


Like I said, I'm not going to debate this. Your ignorance is impressive. But for others who might be following this, here's a list of problems in what he just said:

1)"Jews however have been prominent in all major conflicts and involved usually in very obnoxious ways in all the key events of the greatest human civilizations."

This is simply a lie. It is not supported by historical evidence. Think about this for a moment: he claims that Jews were present in all major conflicts and in all the key events of the "greatest" civilizations. Well I don't know what standard he's using for "greatness", but on any sane standard it would have to include every significant civilization. Hence he makes Jews prominent among the Incans, Mayans, Chinese, Japanese, the various steppe tribal societies, India, the Muslim nations, and on and on. This is nonsensical.

2) "your libertarian heroes were Jews but they've been selling you half truths only."

I thought the Jews promoted Marxism? And fascism? And feudalism? And tribalism? And neoconservatism? And Catholicism? And Islam? All this and libertarianism? Wow, they really do create every major ideology. Simple nonsense again.

And of course, on a related note, not every "libertarian hero" was Jewish. For example: Washington, Jefferson, Spooner, Rand.

Furthermore, there have been millions of libertarians throughout history, not merely Western. Are they all Jewish or influenced by Jews? Like I said, he is trying to sell you all on over-generalized nonsense.

3) "Then they tell you that individual rights means that borders are state sponsored oppression and when you open the border these same Jews come hard with their ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality and end up owning everything in less than a century."

I don't know where to begin with this. Folks, not every libertarian is opposed to state borders. In fact, of the 20th century "libertarian heroes", only one opposed state borders: Murray Rothbard. The other three - Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich Hayek, and Ayn Rand - all supported the state and its borders. And if you want an academic libertarian, Nozick also supported state borders. Most libertarians don't advocate the abolition of the state.

And of course, whether borders are oppressive or not, they are state sponsored: they are defined in terms of states. Without states, there are no borders. It doesn't take must research into the history of government to see that borders arose with the emergence of the nation state. Prior to that, during the feudal and classical periods, "borders" were simply those areas that could be defended. They were not statist, legal entities.

He says the Jews have an ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality as opposed to an individualistic mentality. He has an ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality, as he's proven many times before. He is accusing the Jews of the same vices that he regards as virtues of his own view.

And really, the end up owning everything in less than a century? Everything? In less than a century? Utter nonsense.

And folks, I'll end with this. Even if there are some Jews or Zionists who do bad things, they are bad people NOT because they are Jews or Zionists, but because of the bad things that they do. That's like saying a black person who commits a crime does it because he's black. Then one infers that all black people are likely to do bad things. It's simply a violation of logic.

Manu - you really need to evolve mentally.
Manu-Koelbren

User ID: 31976657
Spain
03/09/2013 07:12 PM
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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
...


I could write a very long post and prove you wrong, but I'd be wasting my time, you're smart enough to know you're in denial about this. Philosemitism is a very tough thing to beat, the indoctrination is strong from early age .
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


That is a shocking degree of arrogance. There's no point debating this Zionism stuff, and I wanted to register my vocal disagreement more than anything else.
 Quoting: Alethian


Zionism is but one particular Jewish phenomenon, Jews however have been prominent in all major conflicts and involved usually in very obnoxious ways in all the key events of the greatest human civilizations. I know it hurts to admit it because most of your libertarian heroes were Jews but they've been selling you half truths only. We've talked about this before, these Jews tell you how great liberty is and then tell you that we should all be judged as individuals. Then they tell you that individual rights means that borders are state sponsored oppression and when you open the border these same Jews come hard with their ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality and end up owning everything in less than a century.

It's a swindle bro, it's a fraud, liberty is great, individualism is great, but not among those who want to use it to weaken nations and then take over them by wielding a strong tribal mentality.
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


Like I said, I'm not going to debate this. Your ignorance is impressive. But for others who might be following this, here's a list of problems in what he just said:

1)"Jews however have been prominent in all major conflicts and involved usually in very obnoxious ways in all the key events of the greatest human civilizations."

This is simply a lie. It is not supported by historical evidence. Think about this for a moment: he claims that Jews were present in all major conflicts and in all the key events of the "greatest" civilizations. Well I don't know what standard he's using for "greatness", but on any sane standard it would have to include every significant civilization. Hence he makes Jews prominent among the Incans, Mayans, Chinese, Japanese, the various steppe tribal societies, India, the Muslim nations, and on and on. This is nonsensical.

2) "your libertarian heroes were Jews but they've been selling you half truths only."

I thought the Jews promoted Marxism? And fascism? And feudalism? And tribalism? And neoconservatism? And Catholicism? And Islam? All this and libertarianism? Wow, they really do create every major ideology. Simple nonsense again.

And of course, on a related note, not every "libertarian hero" was Jewish. For example: Washington, Jefferson, Spooner, Rand.

Furthermore, there have been millions of libertarians throughout history, not merely Western. Are they all Jewish or influenced by Jews? Like I said, he is trying to sell you all on over-generalized nonsense.

3) "Then they tell you that individual rights means that borders are state sponsored oppression and when you open the border these same Jews come hard with their ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality and end up owning everything in less than a century."

I don't know where to begin with this. Folks, not every libertarian is opposed to state borders. In fact, of the 20th century "libertarian heroes", only one opposed state borders: Murray Rothbard. The other three - Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich Hayek, and Ayn Rand - all supported the state and its borders. And if you want an academic libertarian, Nozick also supported state borders. Most libertarians don't advocate the abolition of the state.

And of course, whether borders are oppressive or not, they are state sponsored: they are defined in terms of states. Without states, there are no borders. It doesn't take must research into the history of government to see that borders arose with the emergence of the nation state. Prior to that, during the feudal and classical periods, "borders" were simply those areas that could be defended. They were not statist, legal entities.

He says the Jews have an ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality as opposed to an individualistic mentality. He has an ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality, as he's proven many times before. He is accusing the Jews of the same vices that he regards as virtues of his own view.

And really, the end up owning everything in less than a century? Everything? In less than a century? Utter nonsense.

And folks, I'll end with this. Even if there are some Jews or Zionists who do bad things, they are bad people NOT because they are Jews or Zionists, but because of the bad things that they do. That's like saying a black person who commits a crime does it because he's black. Then one infers that all black people are likely to do bad things. It's simply a violation of logic.

Manu - you really need to evolve mentally.
 Quoting: Alethian


"This is simply a lie. It is not supported by historical evidence. Think about this for a moment: he claims that Jews were present in all major conflicts and in all the key events of the "greatest" civilizations. Well I don't know what standard he's using for "greatness", but on any sane standard it would have to include every significant civilization. Hence he makes Jews prominent among the Incans, Mayans, Chinese, Japanese, the various steppe tribal societies, India, the Muslim nations, and on and on. This is nonsensical."

By greatest civilizations I meant Western nations. However, and under their own accounts, Jews were also involved in the ancient world having similar catastrophic results for their host nations even back then.

"I thought the Jews promoted Marxism? And fascism? And feudalism? And tribalism? And neoconservatism? And Catholicism? And Islam? All this and libertarianism? Wow, they really do create every major ideology. Simple nonsense again.

And of course, on a related note, not every "libertarian hero" was Jewish. For example: Washington, Jefferson, Spooner, Rand.

Furthermore, there have been millions of libertarians throughout history, not merely Western. Are they all Jewish or influenced by Jews? Like I said, he is trying to sell you all on over-generalized nonsense."

You're extrapolating exaggeratedly from what you're responding to. And btw if by Rand you mean Ayn Rand, she was Jewish and this is what she had to say about Libertarianism:

"Anarchists are the scum of the intellectual world of the Left, which has given them up. So the Right picks up another leftist discard. That’s the libertarian movement"


"I don't know where to begin with this. Folks, not every libertarian is opposed to state borders. In fact, of the 20th century "libertarian heroes", only one opposed state borders: Murray Rothbard. The other three - Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich Hayek, and Ayn Rand - all supported the state and its borders. And if you want an academic libertarian, Nozick also supported state borders. Most libertarians don't advocate the abolition of the state."

I wasn't referring specifically to Libertarians but to Jews in General. For Jews a borderless world is much more advantageous as they can move freely and exploit unrestricted. That's why you will find Jews in both polar opposites in the political spectrum arguing for a globalized world. Except when it comes to Israel of course because you see they have an Arab problem there, and they should be exempted.


"He says the Jews have an ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality as opposed to an individualistic mentality. He has an ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality, as he's proven many times before. He is accusing the Jews of the same vices that he regards as virtues of his own view."

Well yes, I think that the behavior the Jews demonstrate is beneficial for them and I resent the fact that they have been trying to prevent Western nations to behave in a similar fashion as to prevent us from reaping similar benefits.

"And really, the end up owning everything in less than a century? Everything? In less than a century? Utter nonsense."

How long did it take the Rothschilds to become some of the richest and most influential families in Europe?


"And folks, I'll end with this. Even if there are some Jews or Zionists who do bad things, they are bad people NOT because they are Jews or Zionists, but because of the bad things that they do. That's like saying a black person who commits a crime does it because he's black. Then one infers that all black people are likely to do bad things. It's simply a violation of logic. "

Not all feral large animals will attack and eat humans if in contact with them, that doesn't mean that statistically getting close to one of them doesn't incur a high chance that you will end up dead and eaten.
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
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03/10/2013 12:46 PM
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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
...


That is a shocking degree of arrogance. There's no point debating this Zionism stuff, and I wanted to register my vocal disagreement more than anything else.
 Quoting: Alethian


Zionism is but one particular Jewish phenomenon, Jews however have been prominent in all major conflicts and involved usually in very obnoxious ways in all the key events of the greatest human civilizations. I know it hurts to admit it because most of your libertarian heroes were Jews but they've been selling you half truths only. We've talked about this before, these Jews tell you how great liberty is and then tell you that we should all be judged as individuals. Then they tell you that individual rights means that borders are state sponsored oppression and when you open the border these same Jews come hard with their ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality and end up owning everything in less than a century.

It's a swindle bro, it's a fraud, liberty is great, individualism is great, but not among those who want to use it to weaken nations and then take over them by wielding a strong tribal mentality.
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


Like I said, I'm not going to debate this. Your ignorance is impressive. But for others who might be following this, here's a list of problems in what he just said:

1)"Jews however have been prominent in all major conflicts and involved usually in very obnoxious ways in all the key events of the greatest human civilizations."

This is simply a lie. It is not supported by historical evidence. Think about this for a moment: he claims that Jews were present in all major conflicts and in all the key events of the "greatest" civilizations. Well I don't know what standard he's using for "greatness", but on any sane standard it would have to include every significant civilization. Hence he makes Jews prominent among the Incans, Mayans, Chinese, Japanese, the various steppe tribal societies, India, the Muslim nations, and on and on. This is nonsensical.

2) "your libertarian heroes were Jews but they've been selling you half truths only."

I thought the Jews promoted Marxism? And fascism? And feudalism? And tribalism? And neoconservatism? And Catholicism? And Islam? All this and libertarianism? Wow, they really do create every major ideology. Simple nonsense again.

And of course, on a related note, not every "libertarian hero" was Jewish. For example: Washington, Jefferson, Spooner, Rand.

Furthermore, there have been millions of libertarians throughout history, not merely Western. Are they all Jewish or influenced by Jews? Like I said, he is trying to sell you all on over-generalized nonsense.

3) "Then they tell you that individual rights means that borders are state sponsored oppression and when you open the border these same Jews come hard with their ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality and end up owning everything in less than a century."

I don't know where to begin with this. Folks, not every libertarian is opposed to state borders. In fact, of the 20th century "libertarian heroes", only one opposed state borders: Murray Rothbard. The other three - Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich Hayek, and Ayn Rand - all supported the state and its borders. And if you want an academic libertarian, Nozick also supported state borders. Most libertarians don't advocate the abolition of the state.

And of course, whether borders are oppressive or not, they are state sponsored: they are defined in terms of states. Without states, there are no borders. It doesn't take must research into the history of government to see that borders arose with the emergence of the nation state. Prior to that, during the feudal and classical periods, "borders" were simply those areas that could be defended. They were not statist, legal entities.

He says the Jews have an ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality as opposed to an individualistic mentality. He has an ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality, as he's proven many times before. He is accusing the Jews of the same vices that he regards as virtues of his own view.

And really, the end up owning everything in less than a century? Everything? In less than a century? Utter nonsense.

And folks, I'll end with this. Even if there are some Jews or Zionists who do bad things, they are bad people NOT because they are Jews or Zionists, but because of the bad things that they do. That's like saying a black person who commits a crime does it because he's black. Then one infers that all black people are likely to do bad things. It's simply a violation of logic.

Manu - you really need to evolve mentally.
 Quoting: Alethian


"This is simply a lie. It is not supported by historical evidence. Think about this for a moment: he claims that Jews were present in all major conflicts and in all the key events of the "greatest" civilizations. Well I don't know what standard he's using for "greatness", but on any sane standard it would have to include every significant civilization. Hence he makes Jews prominent among the Incans, Mayans, Chinese, Japanese, the various steppe tribal societies, India, the Muslim nations, and on and on. This is nonsensical."

By greatest civilizations I meant Western nations. However, and under their own accounts, Jews were also involved in the ancient world having similar catastrophic results for their host nations even back then.

"I thought the Jews promoted Marxism? And fascism? And feudalism? And tribalism? And neoconservatism? And Catholicism? And Islam? All this and libertarianism? Wow, they really do create every major ideology. Simple nonsense again.

And of course, on a related note, not every "libertarian hero" was Jewish. For example: Washington, Jefferson, Spooner, Rand.

Furthermore, there have been millions of libertarians throughout history, not merely Western. Are they all Jewish or influenced by Jews? Like I said, he is trying to sell you all on over-generalized nonsense."

You're extrapolating exaggeratedly from what you're responding to. And btw if by Rand you mean Ayn Rand, she was Jewish and this is what she had to say about Libertarianism:

"Anarchists are the scum of the intellectual world of the Left, which has given them up. So the Right picks up another leftist discard. That’s the libertarian movement"


"I don't know where to begin with this. Folks, not every libertarian is opposed to state borders. In fact, of the 20th century "libertarian heroes", only one opposed state borders: Murray Rothbard. The other three - Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich Hayek, and Ayn Rand - all supported the state and its borders. And if you want an academic libertarian, Nozick also supported state borders. Most libertarians don't advocate the abolition of the state."

I wasn't referring specifically to Libertarians but to Jews in General. For Jews a borderless world is much more advantageous as they can move freely and exploit unrestricted. That's why you will find Jews in both polar opposites in the political spectrum arguing for a globalized world. Except when it comes to Israel of course because you see they have an Arab problem there, and they should be exempted.


"He says the Jews have an ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality as opposed to an individualistic mentality. He has an ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality, as he's proven many times before. He is accusing the Jews of the same vices that he regards as virtues of his own view."

Well yes, I think that the behavior the Jews demonstrate is beneficial for them and I resent the fact that they have been trying to prevent Western nations to behave in a similar fashion as to prevent us from reaping similar benefits.

"And really, the end up owning everything in less than a century? Everything? In less than a century? Utter nonsense."

How long did it take the Rothschilds to become some of the richest and most influential families in Europe?


"And folks, I'll end with this. Even if there are some Jews or Zionists who do bad things, they are bad people NOT because they are Jews or Zionists, but because of the bad things that they do. That's like saying a black person who commits a crime does it because he's black. Then one infers that all black people are likely to do bad things. It's simply a violation of logic. "

Not all feral large animals will attack and eat humans if in contact with them, that doesn't mean that statistically getting close to one of them doesn't incur a high chance that you will end up dead and eaten.
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


First, I want to apologize for how I spoke to you yesterday. I was having a very bad day, and you didn't deserve the kind of rhetoric I was throwing at you. I strongly disagree with you, but shouldn't have spoken as I did.

Second, to some of the points you make:

1) On Rand. Surely ethnic heritage is irrelevant. Rand was anything but a Zionist. Second, yes, Rand opposed libertarianism per se. But philosophically her view was very much libertarian. Mises and Hayek were not "libertarians", but their views were libertarians. Of the list I gave the only strict libertarian was Rothbard.

2) So you're focusing on Jews rather than libertarians, so lets move to that. I question the idea that Jews promote open borders, because if Jews are involved with TPTB, then the ones who are promoting open borders are the left. And even then, it's only rhetorically - they don't put that rhetoric into practice. But even if they did, these open borders are coupled with statism, not libertarianism. So what I'm suggesting is that I don't see any politicians or corporations or banksters implementing the ideology you attribute to the "Jews".

3) On the speed of Rothschild takeover. My point was that whatever the speed then, you are exaggerating in your extrapolation of that to the whole of Western history. Further, both Marx and Lenin wrote about what they called the Jewish takeover of the European financial and political system through the rise of banks. They made opposition to it a part of the the communist platform. I fail to see how communism is allied with the Jewish conspiracy.

4) Generally: don't you think that you are over-generalizing the impact of the Jews on Western history? We can dispense with debate on the whole of Western history, and focus on the last 200 years. What of spontaneous forces, and their impact on historical developments? Why must every major even be considered the effect of a single cause? Can't multiple causes influence the process?
Manu-Koelbren

User ID: 31976657
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03/10/2013 07:04 PM
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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
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Zionism is but one particular Jewish phenomenon, Jews however have been prominent in all major conflicts and involved usually in very obnoxious ways in all the key events of the greatest human civilizations. I know it hurts to admit it because most of your libertarian heroes were Jews but they've been selling you half truths only. We've talked about this before, these Jews tell you how great liberty is and then tell you that we should all be judged as individuals. Then they tell you that individual rights means that borders are state sponsored oppression and when you open the border these same Jews come hard with their ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality and end up owning everything in less than a century.

It's a swindle bro, it's a fraud, liberty is great, individualism is great, but not among those who want to use it to weaken nations and then take over them by wielding a strong tribal mentality.
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


Like I said, I'm not going to debate this. Your ignorance is impressive. But for others who might be following this, here's a list of problems in what he just said:

1)"Jews however have been prominent in all major conflicts and involved usually in very obnoxious ways in all the key events of the greatest human civilizations."

This is simply a lie. It is not supported by historical evidence. Think about this for a moment: he claims that Jews were present in all major conflicts and in all the key events of the "greatest" civilizations. Well I don't know what standard he's using for "greatness", but on any sane standard it would have to include every significant civilization. Hence he makes Jews prominent among the Incans, Mayans, Chinese, Japanese, the various steppe tribal societies, India, the Muslim nations, and on and on. This is nonsensical.

2) "your libertarian heroes were Jews but they've been selling you half truths only."

I thought the Jews promoted Marxism? And fascism? And feudalism? And tribalism? And neoconservatism? And Catholicism? And Islam? All this and libertarianism? Wow, they really do create every major ideology. Simple nonsense again.

And of course, on a related note, not every "libertarian hero" was Jewish. For example: Washington, Jefferson, Spooner, Rand.

Furthermore, there have been millions of libertarians throughout history, not merely Western. Are they all Jewish or influenced by Jews? Like I said, he is trying to sell you all on over-generalized nonsense.

3) "Then they tell you that individual rights means that borders are state sponsored oppression and when you open the border these same Jews come hard with their ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality and end up owning everything in less than a century."

I don't know where to begin with this. Folks, not every libertarian is opposed to state borders. In fact, of the 20th century "libertarian heroes", only one opposed state borders: Murray Rothbard. The other three - Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich Hayek, and Ayn Rand - all supported the state and its borders. And if you want an academic libertarian, Nozick also supported state borders. Most libertarians don't advocate the abolition of the state.

And of course, whether borders are oppressive or not, they are state sponsored: they are defined in terms of states. Without states, there are no borders. It doesn't take must research into the history of government to see that borders arose with the emergence of the nation state. Prior to that, during the feudal and classical periods, "borders" were simply those areas that could be defended. They were not statist, legal entities.

He says the Jews have an ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality as opposed to an individualistic mentality. He has an ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality, as he's proven many times before. He is accusing the Jews of the same vices that he regards as virtues of his own view.

And really, the end up owning everything in less than a century? Everything? In less than a century? Utter nonsense.

And folks, I'll end with this. Even if there are some Jews or Zionists who do bad things, they are bad people NOT because they are Jews or Zionists, but because of the bad things that they do. That's like saying a black person who commits a crime does it because he's black. Then one infers that all black people are likely to do bad things. It's simply a violation of logic.

Manu - you really need to evolve mentally.
 Quoting: Alethian


"This is simply a lie. It is not supported by historical evidence. Think about this for a moment: he claims that Jews were present in all major conflicts and in all the key events of the "greatest" civilizations. Well I don't know what standard he's using for "greatness", but on any sane standard it would have to include every significant civilization. Hence he makes Jews prominent among the Incans, Mayans, Chinese, Japanese, the various steppe tribal societies, India, the Muslim nations, and on and on. This is nonsensical."

By greatest civilizations I meant Western nations. However, and under their own accounts, Jews were also involved in the ancient world having similar catastrophic results for their host nations even back then.

"I thought the Jews promoted Marxism? And fascism? And feudalism? And tribalism? And neoconservatism? And Catholicism? And Islam? All this and libertarianism? Wow, they really do create every major ideology. Simple nonsense again.

And of course, on a related note, not every "libertarian hero" was Jewish. For example: Washington, Jefferson, Spooner, Rand.

Furthermore, there have been millions of libertarians throughout history, not merely Western. Are they all Jewish or influenced by Jews? Like I said, he is trying to sell you all on over-generalized nonsense."

You're extrapolating exaggeratedly from what you're responding to. And btw if by Rand you mean Ayn Rand, she was Jewish and this is what she had to say about Libertarianism:

"Anarchists are the scum of the intellectual world of the Left, which has given them up. So the Right picks up another leftist discard. That’s the libertarian movement"


"I don't know where to begin with this. Folks, not every libertarian is opposed to state borders. In fact, of the 20th century "libertarian heroes", only one opposed state borders: Murray Rothbard. The other three - Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich Hayek, and Ayn Rand - all supported the state and its borders. And if you want an academic libertarian, Nozick also supported state borders. Most libertarians don't advocate the abolition of the state."

I wasn't referring specifically to Libertarians but to Jews in General. For Jews a borderless world is much more advantageous as they can move freely and exploit unrestricted. That's why you will find Jews in both polar opposites in the political spectrum arguing for a globalized world. Except when it comes to Israel of course because you see they have an Arab problem there, and they should be exempted.


"He says the Jews have an ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality as opposed to an individualistic mentality. He has an ethnocentric, tribalistic mentality, as he's proven many times before. He is accusing the Jews of the same vices that he regards as virtues of his own view."

Well yes, I think that the behavior the Jews demonstrate is beneficial for them and I resent the fact that they have been trying to prevent Western nations to behave in a similar fashion as to prevent us from reaping similar benefits.

"And really, the end up owning everything in less than a century? Everything? In less than a century? Utter nonsense."

How long did it take the Rothschilds to become some of the richest and most influential families in Europe?


"And folks, I'll end with this. Even if there are some Jews or Zionists who do bad things, they are bad people NOT because they are Jews or Zionists, but because of the bad things that they do. That's like saying a black person who commits a crime does it because he's black. Then one infers that all black people are likely to do bad things. It's simply a violation of logic. "

Not all feral large animals will attack and eat humans if in contact with them, that doesn't mean that statistically getting close to one of them doesn't incur a high chance that you will end up dead and eaten.
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


First, I want to apologize for how I spoke to you yesterday. I was having a very bad day, and you didn't deserve the kind of rhetoric I was throwing at you. I strongly disagree with you, but shouldn't have spoken as I did.

Second, to some of the points you make:

1) On Rand. Surely ethnic heritage is irrelevant. Rand was anything but a Zionist. Second, yes, Rand opposed libertarianism per se. But philosophically her view was very much libertarian. Mises and Hayek were not "libertarians", but their views were libertarians. Of the list I gave the only strict libertarian was Rothbard.

2) So you're focusing on Jews rather than libertarians, so lets move to that. I question the idea that Jews promote open borders, because if Jews are involved with TPTB, then the ones who are promoting open borders are the left. And even then, it's only rhetorically - they don't put that rhetoric into practice. But even if they did, these open borders are coupled with statism, not libertarianism. So what I'm suggesting is that I don't see any politicians or corporations or banksters implementing the ideology you attribute to the "Jews".

3) On the speed of Rothschild takeover. My point was that whatever the speed then, you are exaggerating in your extrapolation of that to the whole of Western history. Further, both Marx and Lenin wrote about what they called the Jewish takeover of the European financial and political system through the rise of banks. They made opposition to it a part of the the communist platform. I fail to see how communism is allied with the Jewish conspiracy.

4) Generally: don't you think that you are over-generalizing the impact of the Jews on Western history? We can dispense with debate on the whole of Western history, and focus on the last 200 years. What of spontaneous forces, and their impact on historical developments? Why must every major even be considered the effect of a single cause? Can't multiple causes influence the process?
 Quoting: Alethian


No need to apologize, I have thick skin wink

1- Surely ethnic heritage is NOT irrelevant, she was heavily biased towards the Jews and against the Arabs and said the Arabs didn't have any rights to their lands because they weren't exploiting their resources effectively (quite skewed way of looking at things if you ask me, wouldn't want to see the extrapolations of THAT). Besides for a Jew ethnic background is NEVER irrelevant.
And btw, Rand actually opposed libertarianism PHILOSOPHICALLY, and quite strongly at that.

2- For this you need to understand the doctrines explained in the protocols (whether you believe them a fraud or not is irrelevant) as that's pretty much explained there in detail. And yes, it does make sense, and yes, it's doable and I believe they're carrying it out right now.

3- Regarding communism being part of the Jewish conspiracy, I refer you back to point number 2.

4- The Jews didn't only define the development of the western world but they were present in the ancient world defining its development even back then. Attempting to subtract the prominence of the Jews in history is usually either the work of people who are in denial as they can't fathom such scale of generational striving for power or of people who are covering for them. It can be found even in the religious texts of the Jews the very modus operandi being utilized by them nowadays to attain power and influence and these texts are thousands of years old. Even before that we can find the same modus operandi being wielded by Semites in ancient Sumer. Remember where Abraham allegedly came from?
I suspect the Jews have been using the same modus operandi from even the times before written history existed(and even before they called themselves Jews). But nowadays with the current technological advances and global scope finally they posses the means to carry out the plan to fullness. Jews are the only ones who have been consistently using this modus operandi throughout the millennia, all the other nations used the old fashioned use of warfare for conquests and they STILL think based on this mindset, but not the Jews.

Last Edited by Manu-K on 03/10/2013 07:06 PM
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
In fact the Jews are living proof that your theory about having no borders is flawed. While people like the Jews exist you can never have a borderless world, because they will come into your society and there won't be any law to stop them from disintegrating all you have and reshaping it in a way that serves them at your expense. And if there is such law they will thwart it to mean whatever they want. Just look around you and you will see the truth in this statement. You can say it's the left that is destroying the traditional American values, but I tell you, if it wasn't for Jewish involvement, nothing of this would have ever been possible.
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
If only The Powers That Be had realized how easily dumb American rednecks can be manipulated, they would have staged it decades ago.

'They're trahin to take mah guns and sayin we're turrists LET'S RISE UP AGAINST THE GUBMINT AND DO EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE SAYIN WE'RE DOIN THAT'LL SHOW THEM RAAAAAAWWWWWWRRRRRR'


Like rats in a maze.
Manu-Koelbren

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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
Communism and Crony Capitalism are just a Thesis, antithesis and synthesis game.


COMMUNISM IS JEWISH
WE HAVE all been led to believe that the Communists are the implacable enemies of the Capitalists, especially the super-wealthy, and seek to rob them of their fortunes. The truth is very different. In his book Zionism Rules the World Henry Klein, a Jewish New York lawyer, wrote: “In 1917, Schiff, Warburg and their associates (super-rich New York Jewish Bankers) financed Trotsky [Bronstein] and Lenin [Ulyanov] who overthrew the Russian government. Their revolutionary followers murdered the Czar and his family and millions of persons in the Ukraine ... Communism is no menace to money control—it is an instrument of money power.”
An official American Intelligence Report at the time of the ‘Russian’ Revolution revealed: “In February 1916, we learned for the first time that a revolution was being fomented in Russia. We discovered that the persons and concerns given below were engaged in this work of destruction:
Jacob Schiff, Felix Warburg, Otto Kahn, Mortimer Schiff, Jerome Hanauer, Charles Guggenheim and Max Breitung—Jewish Directors of Kuhn Loeb & Co (Jewish Bank, Rothschild subsidiary, New York). There is scarcely any doubt that the Russian Revolution, which broke out a year after the above information reached us, was worked up and launched by distinctly Jewish influences.”
The Report listed all of the people who came into prominence in the first Soviet Government from Zinovieff [real name Apfelbaum] to Zibar [real name Martinow]. ‘A’ to ‘Z’, they were all Jews. (A full text of the report appears in the book Plans of the Synagogue of Satan.)
The Russian General Arsene de Goulevitch in Czarism and Revolution confirms that it was Jewish Bankers who financed the Revolution. Later on, (according to F. J. Irsigler in Who Makes Our Money?) the financing was handled by a syndicate of international Bankers which included J.P. Morgan and Rockefeller interests and Lord Rothschild. Rothschild “spent over 21 million roubles in financing the ‘Russian’ (sic) Revolution.
The financiers’ participation in the Communist take-over of Russia was well known among Allied Intelligence services, but not a finger was lifted to stop them because they are the real masters of the world.”
In a letter published in The Times on 14th November 1919, a British Army officer in Southern Russia—an eye-witness of the Bolshevik Revolution wrote: “The Bolshevists form about 5% of the population of Russia—Jews. (80-90% of the Commissaries are Jews). In towns captured by the Bolshevists the only unviolated sacred buildings are the synagogues, while churches are used for anything from movie shows to slaughter-houses. If a commissary, steeped in murder and rape, with mutilation, happens to be a Jew, as most of them are, should he receive exceptional treatment?” His letter goes on to describe in horrific detail the bestial tortures and mass killings inflicted on the Russian people by the Jewish Bolshevists.

BANKERS CONTROL CAPITALISM AND COMMUNISM
A one-time Director of British Naval Intelligence, Admiral Sir Barry Domville, wrote in his memoirs From Admiral to Cabin-Boy that Parliament was controlled from behind the scenes by a “Judeo-Masonic Combination”. Commander Guy Carr, R.N., in his book Pawns in the Game quoted Domville as stating: “International Jewry, headed by the Jewish bankers, was the secret power behind the world revolutionary movement”.
(Carr’s view was that the secret power Domville referred to was in fact the Masonic sect known as The Illuminati. Many students of secret societies and subversive cults hold that The Illuminati was Jewish in its intellectual inspiration—and probably also in its leading personnel. It owed many of its beliefs to The Cabbala and other esoteric Jewish texts. Certainly the opinions and techniques advocated by The Illuminati bear close comparison with the contents of The Protocols of the Learned Eiders of Zion. So in a sense both Domville and Carr were correct.)
The Gangster Bankers created and financed Communism and have kept it going throughout the years with massive infusions of Western aid. They created it and they control it. The confrontation between Communism and Capitalism is a pretence. The Bankers, according to Douglas Reed in Far and Wide “plan to achieve their objectives through the clash between these masses”. Only recently a consortium of ‘British’ bankers granted a loan of £3 billion to China and some £2 billion to Soviet Russia. This means that they have given £5 billion in credit (created out of nothing) to Communists to buy British goods—mainly high-tech goods which could be used against us in another war. Think what £5 billion would do to help our under-funded hospitals, the aged and disabled.
The Capitalist West and the Communist East are controlled by exactly the same people. “Only recently our race has given the world a new prophet, but he has two faces and bears two names: on the one side, his name is Rothschild, the leader of all the Capitalists, on the other, Karl Marx, the Apostle of those who want to destroy the other.”—Blumenthal, Judisk Tidskrift, 1929, Sweden.

Last Edited by Manu-K on 03/10/2013 07:39 PM
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
"1- Surely ethnic heritage is NOT irrelevant, she was heavily biased towards the Jews and against the Arabs and said the Arabs didn't have any rights to their lands because they weren't exploiting their resources effectively (quite skewed way of looking at things if you ask me, wouldn't want to see the extrapolations of THAT). Besides for a Jew ethnic background is NEVER irrelevant. And btw, Rand actually opposed libertarianism PHILOSOPHICALLY, and quite strongly at that."

i) Rand explicitly argued that the Jewish state was in the right vis-a-vis the Arab-Israeli wars because Israel was more civilized. I quote in full: "Give all the help possible to Israel. Consider what is at stake. It is not the moral duty of any country to send men to die helping another country. The help Israel needs is technology and military weapons—and they need them desperately. Why should we help Israel? Israel is fighting not just the Arabs but Soviet Russia, who is sending the Arabs armaments. Russia is after control of the Mediterranean and oil.

Further, why are the Arabs against Israel? (This is the main reason I support Israel.) The Arabs are one of the least developed cultures. They are typically nomads. Their culture is primitive, and they resent Israel because it's the sole beachhead of modern science and civilization on their continent. When you have civilized men fighting savages, you support the civilized men, no matter who they are. Israel is a mixed economy inclined toward socialism. But when it comes to the power of the mind—the development of industry in that wasted desert continent—versus savages who don't want to use their minds, then if one cares about the future of civilization, don't wait for the government to do something. Give whatever you can. This is the first time I've contributed to a public cause: helping Israel in an emergency."

I don't agree with her reasoning, but that's her argument.

So given this, I ask: what evidence is there that Rand's alleged Jewish background had any bearing on her stance?

ii) I recognize that Rand opposed libertarianism - specifically, Rothbardian libertarianism - for philosophical reasons. I oppose Rothbardian libertarianism for philosophical reasons. But we must distinguish between two senses of "libertarianism". First, it means specifically the original form it took: the Rothbardian. Second, a general sense, which encompasses any political philosophy regarding liberty as its central value. It is in this latter sense that we can speak of Rand, Mises, Hayek, and the Founding Fathers as libertarians, and it is in this sense that the word is used today.

"2- For this you need to understand the doctrines explained in the protocols (whether you believe them a fraud or not is irrelevant) as that's pretty much explained there in detail. And yes, it does make sense, and yes, it's doable and I believe they're carrying it out right now."

i) The point I was making was that nobody, anywhere, is implementing open borders after the fashion of libertarianism. Given that, and given how marginal libertarianism is as a political philosophy, I fail to see how libertarianism is being used as a tool by the Jewish conspiracy.

A better argument would be to suggest that the 19th century laissez-faire economic theories were part of a Jewish conspiracy. For the only time in history in which nation states have lowered borders and permitted free movement was during the 19th century, in virtue of their adherence to laissez-faire. And it was in virtue of such policies that industrial production, average standard of living, and average wealth was able to rise so dramatically during that era. So really, it's not libertarianism that's a tool of the Jewish conspiracy, but classical economics.

ii) But even if I grant you that Jews have had this vast multi-generational conspiracy to take over the world, it is not in virtue of the fact that they are Jews. If it were, one could infer from the premise "x is a Jew" that "x is involved in a conspiracy." One cannot do that, so any conspiracy of the sort you suggest is only accidentally (contingently) Jewish, not essentially (necessarily).

"4- The Jews didn't only define the development of the western world but they were present in the ancient world defining its development even back then. Attempting to subtract the prominence of the Jews in history is usually either the work of people who are in denial as they can't fathom such scale of generational striving for power or of people who are covering for them. It can be found even in the religious texts of the Jews the very modus operandi being utilized by them nowadays to attain power and influence and these texts are thousands of years old. Even before that we can find the same modus operandi being wielded by Semites in ancient Sumer. Remember where Abraham allegedly came from?

I suspect the Jews have been using the same modus operandi from even the times before written history existed(and even before they called themselves Jews). But nowadays with the current technological advances and global scope finally they posses the means to carry out the plan to fullness. Jews are the only ones who have been consistently using this modus operandi throughout the millennia, all the other nations used the old fashioned use of warfare for conquests and they STILL think based on this mindset, but not the Jews."


This (4) is really an historical debate, not a philosophical one. Not being an historian, I leave it to historians to debate. But nevertheless, the point I made at (2ii) above holds.

Now there is a way to save your argument, which is to distinguish Jews and Zionists. Because it is perhaps essential to Zionism that Zionists participate in the sort of conspiracy you suggest. And it's worth differentiating the terms, because "Jew" is a term of ethnicity, whereas "Zionist" is a term of ideology. So perhaps there are Zionists who participate in a conspiracy of this sort. The debate then becomes historical again, for one has to prove the Zionism has been a single and coherent ideology for at least 3000 years, and that it has been the primary cause of, as you say, every major Western war and event.

"In fact the Jews are living proof that your theory about having no borders is flawed. While people like the Jews exist you can never have a borderless world, because they will come into your society and there won't be any law to stop them from disintegrating all you have and reshaping it in a way that serves them at your expense. And if there is such law they will thwart it to mean whatever they want. Just look around you and you will see the truth in this statement. You can say it's the left that is destroying the traditional American values, but I tell you, if it wasn't for Jewish involvement, nothing of this would have ever been possible."

In a free society, how would Jews, or anyone else, disintegrate and reshape everything? In such a society all developments would be based on free choice. Thus, if one does not wish to trade with Zionists, or whatever, then one could simply say "No." If one doesn't want to sell ones land, one doesn't. If one doesn't want to send ones children to a Zionist run school - or to any school with which one disagrees - one simply chooses differently.
Manu-Koelbren

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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
"So given this, I ask: what evidence is there that Rand's alleged Jewish background had any bearing on her stance?"

Even when the Zionist state was of a nature totally contradictory to her own philosophies she couldn't avoid being bedazzled by her ethnic brethren's genius. Just like Friedman who said he would always feel admiration for his tribe's accomplishments I suspect Rand held the same kind of tribal allegiance. Now I can't prove this empirically but it's a constant with Jews that even when they seem to disagree with each other's views, they always save this praise for each other which is a healthy form of ethnic pride.
You seem to think that if a Jew is a Zionist then he's opposed to a Jew that is a communist or that a religious Jew is fiercely opposed to an atheistic Jew and that there's a rupture between themselves. But this is false. There's a nexus between Jews that goes beyond all these "isms" and creeds, and it's merely the feeling of being ETHNICALLY Jewish. They are a tribe, a race, a bloodline, and that goes beyond everything else. When circumstances turn drastic, Jews will support themselves on each other regardless of whatever ideology they happen to uphold. When the Bolsheviks took power they destroyed Christian Churches yet they left Synagogues alone and enacted laws against anti-semitism. Yet weren't these Marxists supposed to be against ALL religion?

"It is in this latter sense that we can speak of Rand, Mises, Hayek, and the Founding Fathers as libertarians, and it is in this sense that the word is used today."


I choose to call Rand as she liked to call herself, an Objectivist. If you want to call her a libertarian go ahead but I doubt she would take that well were you to call her such in person.

"The point I was making was that nobody, anywhere, is implementing open borders after the fashion of libertarianism. Given that, and given how marginal libertarianism is as a political philosophy, I fail to see how libertarianism is being used as a tool by the Jewish conspiracy."

I wouldn't call libertarianism a Jewish conspiracy, but I'd say that when arguing philosophically for free market capitalism beyond national borders those Jewish authors who embraced this idea were possibly thinking about their own ethnic interests as well. Now maybe some of these authors were aware that there was a globalist conspiracy being led by a group of elite people of which whom many were Jews and possibly these were directing it and maybe they understood it was in their best interest to further it. Or maybe they merely understood that for such a persecuted people as Jews an open border capitalistic trade system would benefit them personally for their endeavors. Then maybe some of these authors were arguing for other reasons totally unrelated to them being Jews, but all these options are possible nonetheless.

"But even if I grant you that Jews have had this vast multi-generational conspiracy to take over the world, it is not in virtue of the fact that they are Jews. If it were, one could infer from the premise "x is a Jew" that "x is involved in a conspiracy." One cannot do that, so any conspiracy of the sort you suggest is only accidentally (contingently) Jewish, not essentially (necessarily)."


I actually think it is in virtue of the fact that they are Jews. I would argue that the Jews who are not in someway involved in this conspiracy, whether by being insiders or merely Jews who support Jewish endeavors because they understand the advantages they can obtain by doing it, are merely those who somehow assimilated into their host nations and/or simply stopped giving any importance to their Jewishness. A Jew who stops considering him/herself a Jew and acting according to an ethnocentric, tribal mindset merely becomes another human being like anyone else. This does happen in cases, but looking around you will notice that the success of Jews in the Western world is mostly due to their ethnic nepotism and that always, in some way or another, they are furthering their agenda even when they seem to uphold polar opposite ideologies. Because you see, the agenda is disintegrating their host nation's cohesiveness in order to gain control over it, and for that you need to infiltrate and pervert every aspect of that society.

Now there is a way to save your argument, which is to distinguish Jews and Zionists. Because it is perhaps essential to Zionism that Zionists participate in the sort of conspiracy you suggest. And it's worth differentiating the terms, because "Jew" is a term of ethnicity, whereas "Zionist" is a term of ideology. So perhaps there are Zionists who participate in a conspiracy of this sort. The debate then becomes historical again, for one has to prove the Zionism has been a single and coherent ideology for at least 3000 years, and that it has been the primary cause of, as you say, every major Western war and event.

As I showed in my previous response I don't think it's necessary to distinguish Jews from Zionists. The focal point here is not if Jews should own Palestine or not, but that Jews are a cohesive tribe and that being a foreign minority that has been always undesirable wherever they have roamed, it is in their best interest to work together to attain the maximum power, influence and wealth for themselves. Now when you couple that idiosyncrasy with the accumulated wisdom regarding the weakness of the gentiles it's only logical to think that Jews in their particular position would work in such a manner as the protocols describe. A Jewish conspiracy is not illogical nor does it require to be cataloged under such term as Zionism or anything else.
What has been coherent for 3000 years is that a small tribe has been collecting and developing methods to subvert nations. This tribe has made enormous efforts to keep itself from assimilating to these nations they have inhabited and here lies their strength. Were the Jews to assimilate to their host nations they would stop existing in one generation. So the Jews have gone through drastic means to keep themselves Jewish and persecuted. The persecution aspect is vital for Jews to continue to work as a unit. You don't need to have everyone being briefed about how to operate when you already have them united by facing a common threat.
Even the Jew who is clueless about the conspiracy is working for the conspiracy because for the majority of them the Gentile is an antagonist. You need to understand the psychology of it all, place yourself in their shoes. The Jew will never fully trust the Gentiles, and as the Gentiles pose an ever present threat of suddenly turning against the Jews, it's in the Jew's interest to work to undermine the cohesion of the Gentile. In this scheme you already have assured yourself that a Jew will always work for Jewry's interests because in them they find their own interests as well. The Jew cannot work outside of the reality of him/herself being Jewish, because that would be risking the possibility of facing annihilation at any given moment. When you look at a Jew, whatever his religion or ideology, never for one second think that this person doesn't consider his/her own Jewishness, they do every moment of their lives.

In a free society, how would Jews, or anyone else, disintegrate and reshape everything? In such a society all developments would be based on free choice. Thus, if one does not wish to trade with Zionists, or whatever, then one could simply say "No." If one doesn't want to sell ones land, one doesn't. If one doesn't want to send ones children to a Zionist run school - or to any school with which one disagrees - one simply chooses differently.

Easy my friend, they would simply take the freedom away from that society if that freedom threatens their self interests and then they would place themselves at its helm. Now if that society was controlled and that control was against their interests they would seek to disintegrate the control and liberalize society and when this was achieved they would strive to make it controlled again but under their own direction.
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
Well we can leave Rand aside since you admit that you have no empirical proof. But I accept that you read her as motivated by Zionism, to an extent. Fair enough - but I disagree.

Back to the Jews. So you think Jews and Zionists are the same, and those Jews who've fallen away aren't real Jews, in some sense. Fair enough - but this just makes my point that not all "Jews" are the enemy. The only ones who are the enemy are those who are engaging in the sort of insidious political program you suggest. But if there are Jews who are as you describe - and I've not disagreed - then I also oppose them. My point is basically twofold:

1) Even though some Jews act as you describe, we cannot attribute the same beliefs to all Jews. Whether these fallen away Jews are "real" Jews or not is besides the point. The main issue is can anyone say all Jews are bad?

2) The historical claims you make are exaggerated, but we already left that point aside as an historical debate.

Now if Jews are primarily tribal and ethnocentric in the way you describe (or at least, those Jews who haven't fallen away), then it's not the ideologies of communism or libertarianism or liberalism or whatever that's to blame for our various troubles. Rather, it's the social coherency and insidious tactics of the Jews. So really, libertarianism might be used as a tool by Jews, but it doesn't necessarily lead to Jewish ascendancy. One can be a libertarian, communist, liberal, or whatever, and not be part of the Jewish plot. One could support a second revolution, therefore, without supporting a Jewish plot.

But then if you're point is that there are some Jews who partake in this conspiracy, and they will try to seize whichever ideology is in place at any given time, then that's really nothing new, and nothing special to the Jews. Millions of people have done that.
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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
Well we can leave Rand aside since you admit that you have no empirical proof. But I accept that you read her as motivated by Zionism, to an extent. Fair enough - but I disagree.

Not by Zionism, you seem to confuse this a lot and I don't understand why. I believe she felt ethnic allegiance to Jewry that's all. Think of Zionism as being analogic to White nationalism and Jewry being analogic to white Europe, if a white person speaks in favor of whites it doesn't automatically mean they're white nationalists. Although I sense by her words on Israel and the "primitive" arabs, who didn't have a right to their lands because they didn't know how to exploit them effectively(meaning probably that she didn't believe anyone should have a right to their property unless they were supremely gifted as well) , that she was actually a closet Zionist. Surely a good research would uncover more on that, I may do that sometime in the future.

Back to the Jews. So you think Jews and Zionists are the same, and those Jews who've fallen away aren't real Jews, in some sense. Fair enough - but this just makes my point that not all "Jews" are the enemy. The only ones who are the enemy are those who are engaging in the sort of insidious political program you suggest. But if there are Jews who are as you describe - and I've not disagreed - then I also oppose them.


Of course! I never argued that all Jews are somehow born with an evil gene or some crap like that (some people do believe in a "racial soul", I don't).

1) Even though some Jews act as you describe, we cannot attribute the same beliefs to all Jews. Whether these fallen away Jews are "real" Jews or not is besides the point. The main issue is can anyone say all Jews are bad?

No, as I said I don't believe in a collective racial consciousness. However those Jews who identify themselves as Jews do unmistakably consider themselves as a separate people and are specially paranoid of non Jews due to their history of being persecuted. This creates a very specific dynamic in their culture and produces certain anti social behaviors for which they are resented. In the worst cases and due to the generational experience accumulated this produces conspiratorial and insidious behavior which is the kind that most people remark regarding the Jews. Unfortunately "The Jews" becomes synonymous with "The Worst of Jews" and this creates a vicious cycle in which those Jews that aren't as bad may turn to the dark side because of being persecuted for the actions of the worse of their kind.
When you have a foreign small group of people arriving somewhere new, usually those who make the most noise are the ones for which the whole are recognized, either for good or for bad, this is basic human social behavior. Not all blacks are bad people, but it's undeniable that if a neighborhood becomes overwhelmingly inhabited by blacks it becomes degraded, and thus you have the social phenomenon of white flight. These things happen even when not all blacks are inclined to crime or anti social behavior, but there's enough of them who are to create that image for them and so people adopt patterns of thought based on what they perceive. This perception does have an actual basis, and so does the pervading perception of Jews.


"Now if Jews are primarily tribal and ethnocentric in the way you describe (or at least, those Jews who haven't fallen away), then it's not the ideologies of communism or libertarianism or liberalism or whatever that's to blame for our various troubles. Rather, it's the social coherency and insidious tactics of the Jews. So really, libertarianism might be used as a tool by Jews, but it doesn't necessarily lead to Jewish ascendancy. One can be a libertarian, communist, liberal, or whatever, and not be part of the Jewish plot. One could support a second revolution, therefore, without supporting a Jewish plot. "


Well here it depends. Sometimes it is the social coherency of the Jews that is to blame, but some other times this social coherency is what actually brings forth the ideology in the first place. There's a very interesting video of Milton Friedman on youtube called Socialism, capitalism and the Jews, in here Friedman argues that Jews created both systems and even when this may seem paradoxical it isn't. Yet he doesn't goes in depth on why this is, and I would argue this is because he'd have to admit that Jews work through the Thesis,Antithesis and Synthesis scheme (again look at my previous posts for my thoughts on that).
Yet are those the only ideologies Jews have created which have influenced the West in such a large degree? Not at all. If you look at the issue carefully you will come to realize that Judeo-Christianity, the most influential religious doctrine that has come upon and defined the Western world, is basically a Jewish religion brought to Europe by Jewish missionaries. There's an interesting text by the Rothschild family biographer Msrcus Eli Ravage, which is totally authentic, and while some people have tried to rest importance to it by implying it's satirical, I would recommend you to read it and make your own mind (It's not long and it's very entertaining [link to members.tripod.com] If then you continue your research you will realize that Jews have either given birth to most influential thoughts that have defined the west, or they have infiltrated those created by Gentiles and thwarted them to serve their needs (the Jewish infiltration of Freemasonry, which is historical and valid, is one good example).
So the idea that one might embrace a Jewish directed ideology and not be furthering a Jewish conspiracy is not correct. However I'd totally agree that supporting a second revolution can be done without necessarily supporting this conspiracy, as long as one doesn't fall in one of the many pitfalls created by the crafty Jews in order to lead astray those gentiles seeking their own sovereignty. The world wars of the 20th century are a testament of how the Jews could maneuver the entire global powers in such a way that they could reshape circumstances in their favor. There can be no better example of the acute extreme cunning of this ancient persistent race of people.

Last Edited by Manu-K on 03/11/2013 07:57 PM
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
Not by Zionism, you seem to confuse this a lot and I don't understand why. I believe she felt ethnic allegiance to Jewry that's all. Think of Zionism as being analogic to White nationalism and Jewry being analogic to white Europe, if a white person speaks in favor of whites it doesn't automatically mean they're white nationalists. Although I sense by her words on Israel and the "primitive" arabs, who didn't have a right to their lands because they didn't know how to exploit them effectively(meaning probably that she didn't believe anyone should have a right to their property unless they were supremely gifted as well) , that she was actually a closet Zionist. Surely a good research would uncover more on that, I may do that sometime in the future.

The confusion regarding Zionism comes from the way you seem to use it. Zionism as such is usually used to mean the Jewish nationalist movement that emerged politically in the late-19th century. But you argued that Jewish ethnocentrism or tribalism and Zionism are the same. Given that, if someone is influenced by their Jewish ethnicity they'd be influenced by Zionism.

No, as I said I don't believe in a collective racial consciousness. However those Jews who identify themselves as Jews do unmistakably consider themselves as a separate people and are specially paranoid of non Jews due to their history of being persecuted. This creates a very specific dynamic in their culture and produces certain anti social behaviors for which they are resented. In the worst cases and due to the generational experience accumulated this produces conspiratorial and insidious behavior which is the kind that most people remark regarding the Jews. Unfortunately "The Jews" becomes synonymous with "The Worst of Jews" and this creates a vicious cycle in which those Jews that aren't as bad may turn to the dark side because of being persecuted for the actions of the worse of their kind.
When you have a foreign small group of people arriving somewhere new, usually those who make the most noise are the ones for which the whole are recognized, either for good or for bad, this is basic human social behavior. Not all blacks are bad people, but it's undeniable that if a neighborhood becomes overwhelmingly inhabited by blacks it becomes degraded, and thus you have the social phenomenon of white flight. These things happen even when not all blacks are inclined to crime or anti social behavior, but there's enough of them who are to create that image for them and so people adopt patterns of thought based on what they perceive. This perception does have an actual basis, and so does the pervading perception of Jews.


Well on this matter I've already given my answer, which I stand by. Some Jews act as you describe, others don't. I argue that it's a false generalization to make one specific kind of behavior definitive of Jewishness, i.e. essential to Jewishness. The same kind of false logic underpins any argument that attributes certain essential behaviors to black people, asian people, white people, or any particular ethnic or racial group.

Now if may be that there are certain historically prominent characteristics of a particular group at a particular time, such as blacks in south-east DC, or south Chicago. That's all fine. But at that point it is implicitly accepted that one cannot blame their race or ethnicity for their behavior, but rather their choices and the various historical contingencies that structure their choice.

Well here it depends. Sometimes it is the social coherency of the Jews that is to blame, but some other times this social coherency is what actually brings forth the ideology in the first place. There's a very interesting video of Milton Friedman on youtube called Socialism, capitalism and the Jews, in here Friedman argues that Jews created both systems and even when this may seem paradoxical it isn't. Yet he doesn't goes in depth on why this is, and I would argue this is because he'd have to admit that Jews work through the Thesis,Antithesis and Synthesis scheme (again look at my previous posts for my thoughts on that).
Yet are those the only ideologies Jews have created which have influenced the West in such a large degree? Not at all. If you look at the issue carefully you will come to realize that Judeo-Christianity, the most influential religious doctrine that has come upon and defined the Western world, is basically a Jewish religion brought to Europe by Jewish missionaries. There's an interesting text by the Rothschild family biographer Msrcus Eli Ravage, which is totally authentic, and while some people have tried to rest importance to it by implying it's satirical, I would recommend you to read it and make your own mind (It's not long and it's very entertaining [link to members.tripod.com] If then you continue your research you will realize that Jews have either given birth to most influential thoughts that have defined the west, or they have infiltrated those created by Gentiles and thwarted them to serve their needs (the Jewish infiltration of Freemasonry, which is historical and valid, is one good example).
So the idea that one might embrace a Jewish directed ideology and not be furthering a Jewish conspiracy is not correct. However I'd totally agree that supporting a second revolution can be done without necessarily supporting this conspiracy, as long as one doesn't fall in one of the many pitfalls created by the crafty Jews in order to lead astray those gentiles seeking their own sovereignty. The world wars of the 20th century are a testament of how the Jews could maneuver the entire global powers in such a way that they could reshape circumstances in their favor. There can be no better example of the acute extreme cunning of this ancient persistent race of people.


I don't question that Jews may have created both capitalism and socialism. I merely argue that the truth and value of those systems has nothing to do with the Jewishness of their creators.

If I may ask, since I'm very upfront with my ideology (basically a mix of Aristotelianism, Taoism, and Objectivism, and total political anarchism), where do you stand ideologically?
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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
The confusion regarding Zionism comes from the way you seem to use it. Zionism as such is usually used to mean the Jewish nationalist movement that emerged politically in the late-19th century. But you argued that Jewish ethnocentrism or tribalism and Zionism are the same. Given that, if someone is influenced by their Jewish ethnicity they'd be influenced by Zionism.

You seem to be mistaking me for the OP or someone else, I am not one to usually go around talking about "Zionist conspiracies" per se, I usually talk about JEWISH conspiracies. Because as you state correctly, Zionism is just one Jewish political manifestation from a determinate epoch in time, but Jews have been conspiring in nations not of their own since the time Joseph swindled the Egyptians from their own land back in ancient times, and maybe even prior to that as well.


Well on this matter I've already given my answer, which I stand by. Some Jews act as you describe, others don't. I argue that it's a false generalization to make one specific kind of behavior definitive of Jewishness, i.e. essential to Jewishness. The same kind of false logic underpins any argument that attributes certain essential behaviors to black people, asian people, white people, or any particular ethnic or racial group.

How do you explain the historical pattern of behavior from Jews and the consequent reactions from the host nations that received them, ranging from diverse racial and cultural backgrounds, throughout thousands of years? Maybe you're wrong and there are certain behaviors essential to Jewishness and it's you who is wielding a false logic here. You can't accept that a set of people may actually generationally perpetuate a behavioral set of patterns, but that is just your take on it, the actual historical record suggests otherwise. And Jews themselves, jealous as they are of their own cultural traditions, will tell you as well how they care to preserve certain of their cultural traits because they consider them essential to who they are as a people.
That not all of them do so? Fine, but if enough of them do, then that's enough to warrant the perception of Jewish specific behaviors by their host nations. If a new large family comes to your neighborhood and begin to engage in obnoxious behavior you will perceive the family as a whole to be a nuisance regardless if out of 20 people 7 are not annoying, and you'd be correct in such perception of things.

"I don't question that Jews may have created both capitalism and socialism. I merely argue that the truth and value of those systems has nothing to do with the Jewishness of their creators.

If I may ask, since I'm very upfront with my ideology (basically a mix of Aristotelianism, Taoism, and Objectivism, and total political anarchism), where do you stand ideologically?"


Well it depends, if a hacker from a rival nation designs a virus specifically to destroy yours, as a military general you would be interested in taking into consideration its origin and certainly taking measures for the virus to not affect your computer systems. You seem to be a person that just doesn't take ethnicity seriously into the equation, but ethnicity remains crucial for many people in this world who see it as strength in numbers, and this will remain even if some people as you wish to look away from this reality. So to me it always matters who was that developed an ideology and what for, and when Jews are involved much more, because I know that they are masters of ideological subversion.

Regarding myself? I believe in very limited government and free markets within a national framework. I would like to see western nations going back into a white preservationalist mode (meaning no more non white mass immigration and deporting all immigrants that haven't assimilated). I am strongly opposed to all Abrahamic faiths but I do dwell occasionally into more sophisticated metaphysical ponderings. Hope that helps but feel free to ask anything else if you'd like to.
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
Anyhow, I may add that although the idea of Zionism as a political movement is relatively recent, the idea of Zionism itself isn't.

"Also the sons of those who afflicted you shall come bowing to you, and all those who despised you shall fall prostrate at the soles of your feet; and they shall call you The City of the Lord, Zion of the Holy One of Israel. Whereas you have been forsaken and hated, so that no one went through you, I will make you an eternal excellence, a joy of many generations. You shall drink the milk of the Gentiles, and milk the breast of kings; you shall know that I, the Lord, am your Savior and your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob. Instead of bronze I will bring gold, instead of iron I will bring silver, instead of wood, bronze, and instead of stones, iron. I will also make your officers peace, and your magistrates righteousness. Violence shall no longer be heard in your land, neither wasting nor destruction within your borders; but you shall call your walls Salvation, and your gates Praise."

Last Edited by Manu-K on 03/17/2013 10:33 PM
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
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03/17/2013 10:47 PM
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Re: The Second American Revolution is a ploy by the Zionists
You are wrong, it is a ploy by catholic bohemian nazis....DUH.!

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