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The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer

 
Deejay

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03/18/2013 12:48 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Dude, most of your posts are good but this is just pure
unadulterated christian mentality bullshit.

Everything is a choice. Once you accept that, you can start taking responsibility for your choices. After that, FORGIVE YOURSELF.


Done. Sorted. EASY.


Subconscious guilt is one of he reasons the world is as fucked as it is.. Because people believe that it's ok to suffer and they deserve to suffer. What fucking bullshit is that????

It's never ok to suffer.
Know Thyself.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 12:51 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Dude, most of your posts are good but this is just pure
unadulterated christian mentality bullshit.

Everything is a choice. Once you accept that, you can start taking responsibility for your choices. After that, FORGIVE YOURSELF.


Done. Sorted. EASY.


Subconscious guilt is one of he reasons the world is as fucked as it is.. Because people believe that it's ok to suffer and they deserve to suffer. What fucking bullshit is that????

It's never ok to suffer.
 Quoting: Deejay


didn't you get the memo. being poor and suffering will get you to Heaven while the rich ride on your back, and they -- the rich are appointed your leader by God himself.

Indoctrination.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/18/2013 12:52 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Dude, most of your posts are good but this is just pure
unadulterated christian mentality bullshit.

Everything is a choice. Once you accept that, you can start taking responsibility for your choices. After that, FORGIVE YOURSELF.


Done. Sorted. EASY.


Subconscious guilt is one of he reasons the world is as fucked as it is.. Because people believe that it's ok to suffer and they deserve to suffer. What fucking bullshit is that????

It's never ok to suffer.
 Quoting: Deejay


Not sure if you read the thread. The Buddhist do not believe that it is ok to suffer, nor do they say that we deserve to suffer. It is just saying that suffering is part of life, and there are 'Noble Truths' and 'Paths' that can be practiced to lesson the suffering that comes in life.

It definitely is not christian mentality. Christian mentality speaks of having a savior, while this is about self-responsibility and relieving your suffering through self-action, not waiting for someone to come save you.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 12:52 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Spiral man always wanted to be the nobody, but became frustated with failure

It's because he always searched outside of him

Idol1
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 12:54 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
...


Totally agree.
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Let me ramble a little bit...

Yesterday was my 40th wedding anniversary. We have fewer years ahead than we have already had. One day, one of us will pass on, and the other will grieve. There will be a sense of loss, and a sense of loss implies attachment. There are also a few others with whom I am tightly connected, and the same thing is true with them: the end of the relationship will cause me to grieve.

But I don't think it will be the type of attachment expressed by "I can't live without you." I don't feel as if I will become attached to the grief itself.
 Quoting: Life and Love


Wow congratulation on your anniversary! I will have my 6th (not married yet) anniversary with my girl next month :) But "the truth" in this thread says that you have to overcome this so you don't suffer. And this statement collides pretty hard with my thinking. "Suffering" when losing someone is the expression that you truly loved them.

I don't even think it is mean to be overcome.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36430867


That is why I said 'balanced' earlier in the thread. I think the grieving must be balanced in your life, in this example. In other words, you don't let the grief take control of your entire life. Kind of like learning to live with it.
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Yeah I agree :)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/18/2013 12:54 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Spiral man always wanted to be the nobody, but became frustated with failure

It's because he always searched outside of him

Idol1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29318843


Nah. Besides, all I do is search inside of myself.

The more you look inside, the more you expand.
The less you look inside, the less you expand.
Life and Love
Live life fully!

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03/18/2013 12:57 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
...


I agree but I am searching for different answer. How can you not be attached to someone you love? I think it's not possible unless you are egoistic and stomping your emotions thus meaning you dont really love them. You cant love someone and not be hurt when they go...I just can see that happening.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36430867


Totally agree.
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Let me ramble a little bit...

Yesterday was my 40th wedding anniversary. We have fewer years ahead than we have already had. One day, one of us will pass on, and the other will grieve. There will be a sense of loss, and a sense of loss implies attachment. There are also a few others with whom I am tightly connected, and the same thing is true with them: the end of the relationship will cause me to grieve.

But I don't think it will be the type of attachment expressed by "I can't live without you." I don't feel as if I will become attached to the grief itself.
 Quoting: Life and Love


Isn't this easier to comes to terms with though at your stage of life. With time comes perspective in looking at the inevitable, bla bla. (not demeaning your message though).

Those just starting out in life with young children are in very much a life & deathy mode as supporters and protectors, much much more difficult to come to terms with that.
Yet a person could lose their loved ones, everything in the blink of an eye and it happens every day.

Or, there are people who were abandoned and their new loved ones take on a visceral almost involuntary attachment.
Too much, I'd say then cross that bridge when you can walk across without agony.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


Be assured that nothing demeaning came through at all!

Yes, I think you are right. Our concept of love as well as our capacity to give and receive love matures as we live out our lives.

One thing that most of us would do, I think, would be to sacrifice our own lives for the life of one we truly loved. I've thought about this a lot (off and on) over the years. I even wrote a GLP thread on it a couple of years ago.

Thread: The Greatest Story Never Told

Note that it has religious (Christian) thought, which was my purpose in writing it. But Good Friday is upon us again, so maybe a re-read isn't a bad thing.
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 12:58 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Hi OP. I will agree with you to a point. It is not so much to suffer as it is to find solutions to problems. Small things have big impact. Going simple is remedy.

hf
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/18/2013 01:01 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
...


Totally agree.
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Let me ramble a little bit...

Yesterday was my 40th wedding anniversary. We have fewer years ahead than we have already had. One day, one of us will pass on, and the other will grieve. There will be a sense of loss, and a sense of loss implies attachment. There are also a few others with whom I am tightly connected, and the same thing is true with them: the end of the relationship will cause me to grieve.

But I don't think it will be the type of attachment expressed by "I can't live without you." I don't feel as if I will become attached to the grief itself.
 Quoting: Life and Love


Isn't this easier to comes to terms with though at your stage of life. With time comes perspective in looking at the inevitable, bla bla. (not demeaning your message though).

Those just starting out in life with young children are in very much a life & deathy mode as supporters and protectors, much much more difficult to come to terms with that.
Yet a person could lose their loved ones, everything in the blink of an eye and it happens every day.

Or, there are people who were abandoned and their new loved ones take on a visceral almost involuntary attachment.
Too much, I'd say then cross that bridge when you can walk across without agony.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


Be assured that nothing demeaning came through at all!

Yes, I think you are right. Our concept of love as well as our capacity to give and receive love matures as we live out our lives.

One thing that most of us would do, I think, would be to sacrifice our own lives for the life of one we truly loved. I've thought about this a lot (off and on) over the years. I even wrote a GLP thread on it a couple of years ago.

Thread: The Greatest Story Never Told

Note that it has religious (Christian) thought, which was my purpose in writing it. But Good Friday is upon us again, so maybe a re-read isn't a bad thing.
 Quoting: Life and Love


Once my two daughters came around, it is something that I cannot NOT think about. Not to mention my wife, or my siblings. But, the strongest pull in self sacrifice would definitely be for my daughters.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/18/2013 01:02 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Hi OP. I will agree with you to a point. It is not so much to suffer as it is to find solutions to problems. Small things have big impact. Going simple is remedy.

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36272438


Yeah, I agree with this as well. Finding solutions before problems lead to suffering is definitely something that should always be worked on.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 01:07 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Spiral man always wanted to be the nobody, but became frustated with failure

It's because he always searched outside of him

Idol1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29318843


Personally I would love to thoroughly acknowledge the truth of how pointless it is to pretend endless pursuit of love sex and money doesn't end up in the gutter.

Being reminded of that is a service.

Rather than personally attack the messenger who delivers it.
Denigration is diversion from yourself and the fact that YOU will certainly fail. Good luck!
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 01:10 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
be less than human. some orchestrated -- fabricated life does this with many trying to sell it all as real. finality is for the secular thoughts of lesser men. strength is persisting in the ether until it sorts itself out -- by introducing the real maker of frequency. all viruses fall dormant after a while when there is nothing left to replicate or consume. entropy can be a real bitch for imposters.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/18/2013 01:12 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
be less than human. some orchestrated -- fabricated life does this with many trying to sell it all as real. finality is for the secular thoughts of lesser men. strength is persisting in the ether until it sorts itself out -- by introducing the real maker of frequency. all viruses fall dormant after a while when there is nothing left to replicate or consume. entropy can be a real bitch for imposters.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12505632


Entropy can be a real bitch for anyone.

That statement in bold is a great saying.
TT YHWH TT

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03/18/2013 01:14 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/18/2013 01:15 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Hey TT, how goes it?
morphic oceans
User ID: 25960283
United Kingdom
03/18/2013 01:23 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
I wouldn't wish my life on the worlds greatest enemy.

THIS IS HELL!

The miracles of the human body and brain are resorted to this?

The 11th commandment should read ' You should not feel sorrow for oneself but for those who suffer more'

I try not to break the 10/11 commandments.

The secret is to empathise for others without using others suffering to alleviate ones own burden.

'And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England mountains green:
And was the holy lamb of God
On Englands pleasant pastures seen?

Another good post sept man.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/18/2013 01:25 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
I wouldn't wish my life on the worlds greatest enemy.

THIS IS HELL!

The miracles of the human body and brain are resorted to this?

The 11th commandment should read ' You should not feel sorrow for oneself but for those who suffer more'

I try not to break the 10/11 commandments.

The secret is to empathise for others without using others suffering to alleviate ones own burden.

'And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England mountains green:
And was the holy lamb of God
On Englands pleasant pastures seen?

Another good post sept man.
 Quoting: morphic oceans 25960283


Thanks.

Damn, there are a lot of good sayings in this thread. I like the bold above.
thumbs
Holy_Diver

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03/18/2013 01:38 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
These four Noble truths are excellent, Buddah was on the right path.

However, I believe Buddah fell short by becoming enamoured with the deceptive forces that exist in the Astral Plane, which will tell you you're doing the right thing and all you need is yourself and more and more access to these sub-dimensions to achieve "Nirvana" which is nothing more than a pocket of the Negative Astral where cessation of spiritual journey is encouraged.

Buddah failed to understand that for all of our suffering, there is another way, on Earth, an equal and opposite Age where suffering will be rare and temporary and our Meditations will take us past the Ego-Flattering portion of the Astral that tells us "That's enough, good job."

It is our Goal (Buddah wanted a goal) to make it to that age and endure the current one. However, when the world turns to this age, when it flips it's polarity, we must be ready.

There are many ego-based paths out there that will tell you how to be ready, or that you already are ready etc.

There is only one path of humility and a realization of helplessness in this age that will ready you for the next.

The Meek shall inherit the Earth.
:ritd:"You've been left on your own, like a Rainbow in the Dark" -Ronnie James Dio:ritd:
Amanda Holder
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03/18/2013 01:42 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
These four Noble truths are excellent, Buddah was on the right path.
However, I believe Buddah fell short by becoming enamoured with the deceptive forces that exist in the Astral Plane,
 Quoting: Holy_Diver


Based upon what?
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 01:52 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
"five leafed truth"

to accept and observe,
is the narrow way of love;
to reject and turn a blind i,
the broadway of hell on earth.

~H
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/18/2013 01:53 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
"five leafed truth"

to accept and observe,
is the narrow way of love;
to reject and turn a blind i,
the broadway of hell on earth.

~H
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25530814


"I see," said the blind man as he picked up his axe and saw.
Holy_Diver

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03/18/2013 01:53 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
These four Noble truths are excellent, Buddah was on the right path.
However, I believe Buddah fell short by becoming enamoured with the deceptive forces that exist in the Astral Plane,
 Quoting: Holy_Diver


Based upon what?
 Quoting: Amanda Holder 36422034


Based on his conclusions.

Buddah teaches a conclusion that a Man can, by his own works, achieve a perfection and transcend.

I am sure, through meditation, that forces and pricipalities in the Astral Real enouraged that line of thinking, and it has served the material world well that many would follow it.

My own research has shown that there is no way any human being can do enough in one lifetime to negate or cancel the negative drain of Karma.

No matter how much ground we gain, we are still imperfect.

As Christ says, even if Adultery (for example) remains in your heart, you have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and therefore cannot possibly conclude that you have arrived to any final paradise or state of perfection or "Nirvana"

Buddah cannot look me in the eye and tell me he completely irradicated all sin from himself.
:ritd:"You've been left on your own, like a Rainbow in the Dark" -Ronnie James Dio:ritd:
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/18/2013 01:55 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Holy Diver, do you think Buddha was a real person?
Holy_Diver

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03/18/2013 01:59 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Holy Diver, do you think Buddha was a real person?
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Yes.
:ritd:"You've been left on your own, like a Rainbow in the Dark" -Ronnie James Dio:ritd:
CeeLite

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03/18/2013 01:59 PM

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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
This seems to wrap up the human condition fairly well, IMO. It is not meant to be depressive concepts, but more of the actual human condition as defined by Buddha. Yes, it revolves around suffering. Buddha looked at living as suffering in that everywhere one could look within living as a human leads to suffering. Some of us may look at it different, but when understanding Buddha's point of view, it opens the mind into why he thought that.

If you love someone, eventually it leads to death of yourself first, causing suffering for your loved ones, or the death of loved ones causing suffering to self. That is to put it VERY briefly, but this is the way he viewed the world he lived in. Where did this suffering arise from, and how to transcend suffering was what he searched for, eventually finding it when experiencing Nirvana while still embodied in flesh while sitting under The Bodhi Tree.

Like any individual personal miracle, he could not describe how to attain Nirvana as the seeking eventually leads to states of mind that are beyond language. This seems to be a foundational aspect of Buddha and something that must not only be understood, but realized within one's life in order to discover any semblance of peace while embodied as a human. Eventually the teachings lead to the release of all earthly attachments, resulting in the attainment of Nirvana and release from karmic debt.

The Four Noble Truths


1. Life means suffering.
To live is to suffer.
During our lifetime, we inevitably have to endure physical suffering such as pain, sickness, injury, tiredness, old age, and eventually death; and we have to endure psychological suffering like sadness, fear, frustration, disappointment, and depression... life in its totality is imperfect and incomplete, because our world is subject to impermanence. This means we are never able to keep permanently what we strive for, and just as happy moments pass by, we ourselves and our loved ones will pass away one day, too.
 Quoting: 1st Noble Truth


2. The origin of suffering is attachment.
Because the objects of our attachment are transient, their loss is inevitable, thus suffering will necessarily follow (Transient things do not only include the physical objects that surround us, but also ideas). Objects of attachment also include the idea of a "self" which is a delusion, because there is no abiding self. What we call "self" is just an imagined entity, and we are merely a part of the ceaseless becoming of the universe.
 Quoting: 2nd Noble Truth


3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.
The cessation of suffering can be attained through nirodha.
Nirodha means the unmaking of sensual craving and conceptual attachment...Nirodha extinguishes all forms of clinging and attachment. This means that suffering can be overcome through human activity, simply by removing the cause of suffering.
 Quoting: 3rd Noble Truth


4. The path to the cessation of suffering.
Following a path to end suffering. This is furthered and explained in the EightFold Path.
It is the middle way between the two extremes of excessive self-indulgence (hedonism) and excessive self-mortification (asceticism); and it leads to the end of the cycle of rebirth. The latter quality discerns it from other paths which are merely "wandering on the wheel of becoming", because these do not have a final object...Craving, ignorance, delusions, and its effects will disappear gradually, as progress is made on the path.
 Quoting: 4th Noble Truth

[link to www.thebigview.com]
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Yep, I remind myself of this often. Used to be Buddhist, still am in a lot of beliefs that relate to living.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 02:02 PM
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"All alien pilots are Buddhists" - Dion
 Quoting: Septenary Man


who is this dion? Celine Dion?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/18/2013 02:05 PM
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"All alien pilots are Buddhists" - Dion
 Quoting: Septenary Man


who is this dion? Celine Dion?
 Quoting: Newheart


A poster here on GLP. He posts that statement a lot.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 02:14 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
actually what this topic is about?
That u like the poetry of buddha?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/18/2013 02:21 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
actually what this topic is about?
That u like the poetry of buddha?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35419375


It's about exploring buddha's teachings on overcoming suffering.

Simple. Not complex. S I M P L E

No nefarious thoughts, no cute poetry (show me where in this thread I posted Buddha poetry), just exploring a topic that I enjoy.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 02:21 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
I dont understand what is there to argue so much.
Of course Buddha was a real person who once went into mental state where his dopamine level raised his conciousness so he could grasp the meaning of all. basically same as LSD does.
So he understood that hinduism is horseshit. That reality is horseshit. That karma is bullshit. That death is not death at all. That its all manipulation.
Also he understood that he cant talk about it. So he decided to teach how to get into the similar state where he was.

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