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The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer

 
morphic oceans
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03/18/2013 02:22 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
I wouldn't wish my life on the worlds greatest enemy.

THIS IS HELL!

The miracles of the human body and brain are resorted to this?

The 11th commandment should read ' You should not feel sorrow for oneself but for those who suffer more'

I try not to break the 10/11 commandments.

The secret is to empathise for others without using others suffering to alleviate ones own burden.

'And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England mountains green:
And was the holy lamb of God
On Englands pleasant pastures seen?

Another good post sept man.
 Quoting: morphic oceans 25960283


Thanks.

Damn, there are a lot of good sayings in this thread. I like the bold above.
thumbs
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Your response gave me hope.

Thanks.

I would rather hope around my neck than rope.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/18/2013 02:23 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
I dont understand what is there to argue so much.
Of course Buddha was a real person who once went into mental state where his dopamine level raised his conciousness so he could grasp the meaning of all. basically same as LSD does.
So he understood that hinduism is horseshit. That reality is horseshit. That karma is bullshit. That death is not death at all. That its all manipulation.
Also he understood that he cant talk about it. So he decided to teach how to get into the similar state where he was.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35419375


Why do you say that? There a many, many historians that do not know if Buddha was a real person. There is no 'proof' he ever existed. That doesn't mean he didn't exist, but that also doesn't mean 'of course he was a real person'.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 02:26 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
actually what this topic is about?
That u like the poetry of buddha?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35419375


It's about exploring buddha's teachings on overcoming suffering.

Simple. Not complex. S I M P L E

No nefarious thoughts, no cute poetry (show me where in this thread I posted Buddha poetry), just exploring a topic that I enjoy.
 Quoting: Septenary Man


all buddha teachings were told in verses in Bhali to his nephew who transribed
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 02:28 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
well trust me he existed, so did Jesus. But learn to differ real people from their myths: Myths serve the purpose of religions and Buddha was not involved with buddhists. He would never join buddhists if he would live at the moment.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/18/2013 02:28 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
actually what this topic is about?
That u like the poetry of buddha?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35419375


It's about exploring buddha's teachings on overcoming suffering.

Simple. Not complex. S I M P L E

No nefarious thoughts, no cute poetry (show me where in this thread I posted Buddha poetry), just exploring a topic that I enjoy.
 Quoting: Septenary Man


all buddha teachings were told in verses in Bhali to his nephew who transribed
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35419375


Can you link? I am reading different sources than you for sure.

Ah, never mind. I really don't care if he was a real person or not. I just posed that question to Holy Diver to see his thoughts clearer when making his statements.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/18/2013 02:29 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
well trust me he existed, so did Jesus. But learn to differ real people from their myths: Myths serve the purpose of religions and Buddha was not involved with buddhists. He would never join buddhists if he would live at the moment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35419375


Yeah, I have heard that before.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 02:29 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
i think buddha would hang more with Robert Monroe type of guys if he would be here now.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/18/2013 02:30 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
i think buddha would hang more with Robert Monroe type of guys if he would be here now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35419375


rockon
Sunyata

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03/18/2013 02:36 PM
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Sunyata

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03/18/2013 02:39 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Enlightenment audio guide
[link to www.rainymood.com]
bobobibi

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03/18/2013 02:48 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
bump

To read tonight... time for a nap
bobobibi
dmt vector

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03/18/2013 02:53 PM

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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
In my opinion, life is no just to suffering, is also to enjoy of the happiness, both are part of the learning and evolution.
Of course i know i arguing with milenar wisdom, and this seems absurdly pretentious, but accept as true just because is tradition, without any filter or analysis, don't looks right to me.

If anyone here could see your own life from out side of the physical dimension, and to return would have to face an ocean of suffering, just to pass another day more with their beloved ones, i bet with total sure he would.
Total detachment is just for the ascets, and to me seems like try take a shortcut to the unreachable enlightment.

Last Edited by dmt vector on 03/18/2013 03:12 PM
Holy_Diver

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03/18/2013 02:56 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
In my opinion, life is no just to suffering, is also to enjoy of the happiness, both are part of the learning and evolution.
Of course i know i arguing with milenar wisdom, and this seems absurdly pretentious, but accept as true just because is tradition, without any filter or analysis, don't looks right to me.

If anyone here could see your own life from out side of the physical dimension, and to return would have to face an ocean of suffering, just to pass another day more with their beloved ones, i bet with total sure he would.
Total detachment is just for the assets, and to me seems like try take a shortcut to the unreachable enlightment.
 Quoting: dmt vector


Happiness mustn't be persued, only accepted as a gift when it comes of it's own accord.

Think of the difference between wet dream and masturbation.
:ritd:"You've been left on your own, like a Rainbow in the Dark" -Ronnie James Dio:ritd:
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 03:00 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
There would be no suffering if one faces its fears, and turn their weaknesses into their strength. It's a slow process but can be achieved, have faith in oneself, that's it that's all.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 03:01 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
One thing my teacher used to say was "Please stop being so religious, it's unnecessary".

That was Chogyam Trungpa '86.
Pathaka

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03/18/2013 03:04 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
OP, brilliant stuff, I wish there was more stuff like this on GLP.

First of all, it's true.

Second, one can verify it oneself.

Third, it is applicable to one's own predicament (whatever that is for each)

Fourth, it offers the hope of end of suffering.

Now, that's a rare combination of four that almost never-ever gets completed in a single GLP post.
Pathaka
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03/18/2013 03:12 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
This seems to wrap up the human condition fairly well, IMO. It is not meant to be depressive concepts, but more of the actual human condition as defined by Buddha. Yes, it revolves around suffering. Buddha looked at living as suffering in that everywhere one could look within living as a human leads to suffering. Some of us may look at it different, but when understanding Buddha's point of view, it opens the mind into why he thought that.

If you love someone, eventually it leads to death of yourself first, causing suffering for your loved ones, or the death of loved ones causing suffering to self. That is to put it VERY briefly, but this is the way he viewed the world he lived in. Where did this suffering arise from, and how to transcend suffering was what he searched for, eventually finding it when experiencing Nirvana while still embodied in flesh while sitting under The Bodhi Tree.

Like any individual personal miracle, he could not describe how to attain Nirvana as the seeking eventually leads to states of mind that are beyond language. This seems to be a foundational aspect of Buddha and something that must not only be understood, but realized within one's life in order to discover any semblance of peace while embodied as a human. Eventually the teachings lead to the release of all earthly attachments, resulting in the attainment of Nirvana and release from karmic debt.

The Four Noble Truths


1. Life means suffering.
To live is to suffer.
During our lifetime, we inevitably have to endure physical suffering such as pain, sickness, injury, tiredness, old age, and eventually death; and we have to endure psychological suffering like sadness, fear, frustration, disappointment, and depression... life in its totality is imperfect and incomplete, because our world is subject to impermanence. This means we are never able to keep permanently what we strive for, and just as happy moments pass by, we ourselves and our loved ones will pass away one day, too.
 Quoting: 1st Noble Truth


2. The origin of suffering is attachment.
Because the objects of our attachment are transient, their loss is inevitable, thus suffering will necessarily follow (Transient things do not only include the physical objects that surround us, but also ideas). Objects of attachment also include the idea of a "self" which is a delusion, because there is no abiding self. What we call "self" is just an imagined entity, and we are merely a part of the ceaseless becoming of the universe.
 Quoting: 2nd Noble Truth


3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.
The cessation of suffering can be attained through nirodha.
Nirodha means the unmaking of sensual craving and conceptual attachment...Nirodha extinguishes all forms of clinging and attachment. This means that suffering can be overcome through human activity, simply by removing the cause of suffering.
 Quoting: 3rd Noble Truth


4. The path to the cessation of suffering.
Following a path to end suffering. This is furthered and explained in the EightFold Path.
It is the middle way between the two extremes of excessive self-indulgence (hedonism) and excessive self-mortification (asceticism); and it leads to the end of the cycle of rebirth. The latter quality discerns it from other paths which are merely "wandering on the wheel of becoming", because these do not have a final object...Craving, ignorance, delusions, and its effects will disappear gradually, as progress is made on the path.
 Quoting: 4th Noble Truth

[link to www.thebigview.com]
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Beautiful!

clappa
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 03:14 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
OP, brilliant stuff, I wish there was more stuff like this on GLP.

First of all, it's true.

Second, one can verify it oneself.

Third, it is applicable to one's own predicament (whatever that is for each)

Fourth, it offers the hope of end of suffering.

Now, that's a rare combination of four that almost never-ever gets completed in a single GLP post.
 Quoting: Pathaka


I'm admitting I have an awful time with dry dogma. This is after years of traditional meditation practice, higher practices and incredible gifts of experience.
I am still an idiot.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 03:17 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
OP, brilliant stuff, I wish there was more stuff like this on GLP.

First of all, it's true.

Second, one can verify it oneself.

Third, it is applicable to one's own predicament (whatever that is for each)

Fourth, it offers the hope of end of suffering.

Now, that's a rare combination of four that almost never-ever gets completed in a single GLP post.
 Quoting: Pathaka


I'm admitting I have an awful time with dry dogma. This is after years of traditional meditation practice, higher practices and incredible gifts of experience.
I am still an idiot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


Aren't we all, coming back as we do for another spin on the Wheel of Samsara?

drevil
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03/18/2013 03:30 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
OP, brilliant stuff, I wish there was more stuff like this on GLP.

First of all, it's true.

Second, one can verify it oneself.

Third, it is applicable to one's own predicament (whatever that is for each)

Fourth, it offers the hope of end of suffering.

Now, that's a rare combination of four that almost never-ever gets completed in a single GLP post.
 Quoting: Pathaka


I'm admitting I have an awful time with dry dogma. This is after years of traditional meditation practice, higher practices and incredible gifts of experience.
I am still an idiot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


Aren't we all, coming back as we do for another spin on the Wheel of Samsara?

drevil
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36434165

Honestly I doubt being one of the handful that realize deathlessness. Then again, that could change in an instant.
If people could only glimpse just how rich and intricate life actually is......that is encouragement make good use of what time one has.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 03:37 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
OP, brilliant stuff, I wish there was more stuff like this on GLP.

First of all, it's true.

Second, one can verify it oneself.

Third, it is applicable to one's own predicament (whatever that is for each)

Fourth, it offers the hope of end of suffering.

Now, that's a rare combination of four that almost never-ever gets completed in a single GLP post.
 Quoting: Pathaka


I'm admitting I have an awful time with dry dogma. This is after years of traditional meditation practice, higher practices and incredible gifts of experience.
I am still an idiot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


Aren't we all, coming back as we do for another spin on the Wheel of Samsara?

drevil
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36434165

Honestly I doubt being one of the handful that realize deathlessness. Then again, that could change in an instant.
If people could only glimpse just how rich and intricate life actually is......that is encouragement make good use of what time one has.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


<rab c nesbitt>

I will tell you this, boy!

I will tell you this!

I do NOT EVAH want to come back here!

</rab c nesbitt>
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 03:47 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
I don't know man, the earth (& everthing init), however made it, is a thing of beauty, love grows onit, vanity rises overit.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 03:48 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
...


I'm admitting I have an awful time with dry dogma. This is after years of traditional meditation practice, higher practices and incredible gifts of experience.
I am still an idiot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


Aren't we all, coming back as we do for another spin on the Wheel of Samsara?

drevil
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36434165

Honestly I doubt being one of the handful that realize deathlessness. Then again, that could change in an instant.
If people could only glimpse just how rich and intricate life actually is......that is encouragement make good use of what time one has.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


<rab c nesbitt>

I will tell you this, boy!

I will tell you this!

I do NOT EVAH want to come back here!

</rab c nesbitt>
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36434165

Ha!Ha! We have the revulsion part well in hand. I couldn't agree more, I DO NOT WANT TO COME BACK HERE.
Good grief, to have to go through childhood and the rest of it into this sure lose hell on earth. Uh, uh. No way no how.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 04:00 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
I read "Polar Dynamics I" by Ed Dawson and found a more accurate translation of "Dukkha". It makes a world of difference, and the book also shows how to null "Dukkha".
Life and Love
Live life fully!

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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
I read "Polar Dynamics I" by Ed Dawson and found a more accurate translation of "Dukkha". It makes a world of difference, and the book also shows how to null "Dukkha".

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32477660


Share it with us here?
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
dmt vector

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03/18/2013 04:06 PM

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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
...


Aren't we all, coming back as we do for another spin on the Wheel of Samsara?

drevil
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36434165

Honestly I doubt being one of the handful that realize deathlessness. Then again, that could change in an instant.
If people could only glimpse just how rich and intricate life actually is......that is encouragement make good use of what time one has.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


<rab c nesbitt>

I will tell you this, boy!

I will tell you this!

I do NOT EVAH want to come back here!

</rab c nesbitt>
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36434165

Ha!Ha! We have the revulsion part well in hand. I couldn't agree more, I DO NOT WANT TO COME BACK HERE.
Good grief, to have to go through childhood and the rest of it into this sure lose hell on earth. Uh, uh. No way no how.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


Supposedly,
To ask for you life resignation, first you have to get your karma file cleaned.
To achieve this you have to do alot charity and never feed yourself again in other way than symbiotically.
Repeat this mantra 100 times per day, and good luck!

Integrity101

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03/18/2013 04:10 PM

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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
I feel like I have been hitting a mental block the past few days, this helped me to sort a few things out. Thanks brother.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 04:14 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
...

Honestly I doubt being one of the handful that realize deathlessness. Then again, that could change in an instant.
If people could only glimpse just how rich and intricate life actually is......that is encouragement make good use of what time one has.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


<rab c nesbitt>

I will tell you this, boy!

I will tell you this!

I do NOT EVAH want to come back here!

</rab c nesbitt>
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36434165

Ha!Ha! We have the revulsion part well in hand. I couldn't agree more, I DO NOT WANT TO COME BACK HERE.
Good grief, to have to go through childhood and the rest of it into this sure lose hell on earth. Uh, uh. No way no how.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


Supposedly,
To ask for you life resignation, first you have to get your karma file cleaned.
To achieve this you have to do alot charity and never feed yourself again in other way than symbiotically.
Repeat this mantra 100 times per day, and good luck!


 Quoting: dmt vector


Well, you're talking about bargaining now. A type of fearful thinly disguised self interest.
It is my instinct to help sentient life anyway, and sure am not going to "clear my karmic files" in the materialistic way you propose.
This is strictly a come as you are party.
So just shut up and sit down and breathe that is the only morality there is.

OH, btw, when I want to be "taught" I'll ask for it.
1908247

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03/18/2013 04:24 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
its stuff like that that never gets old.
- ? Nus.

-You Hold Witness I Witness

As if he could, by himself, say:
_Alive, therefore life itself.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 04:31 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
only under archon rule though. that virus will someday meet its remedy. not infinite in scope. move along.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14403914


Exactly, a little contrast is good since it leads to desire, expansion and experience. But the Archon influence has pushed too hard and souls have forgotten how to create positive from desire.