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The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer

 
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 04:36 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
What exactly is his religion? goodevil
ElectricKoolaid

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03/18/2013 04:36 PM

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This seems to wrap up the human condition fairly well, IMO. It is not meant to be depressive concepts, but more of the actual human condition as defined by Buddha. Yes, it revolves around suffering. Buddha looked at living as suffering in that everywhere one could look within living as a human leads to suffering. Some of us may look at it different, but when understanding Buddha's point of view, it opens the mind into why he thought that.

If you love someone, eventually it leads to death of yourself first, causing suffering for your loved ones, or the death of loved ones causing suffering to self. That is to put it VERY briefly, but this is the way he viewed the world he lived in. Where did this suffering arise from, and how to transcend suffering was what he searched for, eventually finding it when experiencing Nirvana while still embodied in flesh while sitting under The Bodhi Tree.

Like any individual personal miracle, he could not describe how to attain Nirvana as the seeking eventually leads to states of mind that are beyond language. This seems to be a foundational aspect of Buddha and something that must not only be understood, but realized within one's life in order to discover any semblance of peace while embodied as a human. Eventually the teachings lead to the release of all earthly attachments, resulting in the attainment of Nirvana and release from karmic debt.

The Four Noble Truths


1. Life means suffering.
To live is to suffer.
During our lifetime, we inevitably have to endure physical suffering such as pain, sickness, injury, tiredness, old age, and eventually death; and we have to endure psychological suffering like sadness, fear, frustration, disappointment, and depression... life in its totality is imperfect and incomplete, because our world is subject to impermanence. This means we are never able to keep permanently what we strive for, and just as happy moments pass by, we ourselves and our loved ones will pass away one day, too.
 Quoting: 1st Noble Truth


2. The origin of suffering is attachment.
Because the objects of our attachment are transient, their loss is inevitable, thus suffering will necessarily follow (Transient things do not only include the physical objects that surround us, but also ideas). Objects of attachment also include the idea of a "self" which is a delusion, because there is no abiding self. What we call "self" is just an imagined entity, and we are merely a part of the ceaseless becoming of the universe.
 Quoting: 2nd Noble Truth


3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.
The cessation of suffering can be attained through nirodha.
Nirodha means the unmaking of sensual craving and conceptual attachment...Nirodha extinguishes all forms of clinging and attachment. This means that suffering can be overcome through human activity, simply by removing the cause of suffering.
 Quoting: 3rd Noble Truth


4. The path to the cessation of suffering.
Following a path to end suffering. This is furthered and explained in the EightFold Path.
It is the middle way between the two extremes of excessive self-indulgence (hedonism) and excessive self-mortification (asceticism); and it leads to the end of the cycle of rebirth. The latter quality discerns it from other paths which are merely "wandering on the wheel of becoming", because these do not have a final object...Craving, ignorance, delusions, and its effects will disappear gradually, as progress is made on the path.
 Quoting: 4th Noble Truth

[link to www.thebigview.com]
 Quoting: Septenary Man


That was very nicely written. Thanks for sharing. :)
-- EK
dmt vector

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...


<rab c nesbitt>

I will tell you this, boy!

I will tell you this!

I do NOT EVAH want to come back here!

</rab c nesbitt>
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36434165

Ha!Ha! We have the revulsion part well in hand. I couldn't agree more, I DO NOT WANT TO COME BACK HERE.
Good grief, to have to go through childhood and the rest of it into this sure lose hell on earth. Uh, uh. No way no how.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


Supposedly,
To ask for you life resignation, first you have to get your karma file cleaned.
To achieve this you have to do alot charity and never feed yourself again in other way than symbiotically.
Repeat this mantra 100 times per day, and good luck!


 Quoting: dmt vector


Well, you're talking about bargaining now. A type of fearful thinly disguised self interest.
It is my instinct to help sentient life anyway, and sure am not going to "clear my karmic files" in the materialistic way you propose.
This is strictly a come as you are party.
So just shut up and sit down and breathe that is the only morality there is.

OH, btw, when I want to be "taught" I'll ask for it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


Yes, we pay our karma with good actions or with suffering... even if you stop to doing bad things, such to be a rude moron as you are, for example.
You still will keep aquiring bad karma through the alimentation, no mentioning your bad karma already acquired, so this way is impossible leave the Samsara as you wish.
I'm not teaching you, just saying, i guess is good to ilustrate how impossible all this is.
ElectricKoolaid

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03/18/2013 04:41 PM

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this is the archon mind which is the ego mind , it it very powerfull and have led men to do insane acts against other men , it is a lil guy sitting in a controll chairjust behind your eyes , and he is a tough adversary, but through meditation and practice you can become enlightend and free of this invader. craving is the source of all suffering
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36376632


I didn't become awakened by meditation and practice. I was Awakened after an extraordinary trial that made absolutely no sense. Until now. Three weeks at the age of 37 I labored. Three weeks in the worst hell imaginable. Then three weeks of healing has occurred. It's amazing...not one bit of it planned. Just a willing, faithful person going about his business and always in search of that - ANSWER.
-- EK
ElectricKoolaid

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03/18/2013 04:44 PM

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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
What exactly is his religion? goodevil
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30505385


There is no religion to the Buddha. You can also be Buddha. Everyone can. It means Awakened One. It's when you can no longer be contained within the veil and you see life as it truly is - infinite. Like Blake spoke of. Once you're "there" it's...well, neither uphill nor downhill. It's just here. Now. :)
-- EK
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 04:44 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
this is the archon mind which is the ego mind , it it very powerfull and have led men to do insane acts against other men , it is a lil guy sitting in a controll chairjust behind your eyes , and he is a tough adversary, but through meditation and practice you can become enlightend and free of this invader. craving is the source of all suffering
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36376632


I didn't become awakened by meditation and practice. I was Awakened after an extraordinary trial that made absolutely no sense. Until now. Three weeks at the age of 37 I labored. Three weeks in the worst hell imaginable. Then three weeks of healing has occurred. It's amazing...not one bit of it planned. Just a willing, faithful person going about his business and always in search of that - ANSWER.
 Quoting: ElectricKoolaid


hugs

Good for you. The suffering can make things more beautiful, in a strange way.
Hales
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03/18/2013 04:48 PM

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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
*

Last Edited by Hales on 04/05/2013 11:40 PM
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 04:49 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Thanks for taking the time to post this bro!!!
 Quoting: Hales


Thanks for reading Hales. I've seen you around, but our paths never crossed.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 04:51 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
...

Ha!Ha! We have the revulsion part well in hand. I couldn't agree more, I DO NOT WANT TO COME BACK HERE.
Good grief, to have to go through childhood and the rest of it into this sure lose hell on earth. Uh, uh. No way no how.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


Supposedly,
To ask for you life resignation, first you have to get your karma file cleaned.
To achieve this you have to do alot charity and never feed yourself again in other way than symbiotically.
Repeat this mantra 100 times per day, and good luck!




Well, you're talking about bargaining now. A type of fearful thinly disguised self interest.
It is my instinct to help sentient life anyway, and sure am not going to "clear my karmic files" in the materialistic way you propose.
This is strictly a come
 Quoting: dmt vector
re party.
So just shut up and sit down and breathe that is the only morality there is.

OH, btw, when I want to be "taught" I'll ask for it.


Yes, we pay our karma with good actions or with suffering... even if you stop to doing bad things, such to be a rude moron as you are, for example.
You still will keep aquiring bad karma through the alimentation, no mentioning your bad karma already acquired, so this w
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798
possible leave the Samsara as you wish.
I'm not teaching you, just saying, i guess is good to ilustrate how impossible all this is.


No, you're being disrespectful to another being by forcing your views on someone else. That is aggression, a fine example as well.
What you are talking about I addressed, oh, 30 years ago.
So be careful who you assume some kind of superior knowledge over.
If you
 Quoting: dmt vector
mething then BE THAT and keep your dignity and mouth closed.

I noticed you didn't address any of my points either, but that's ok. It had to do with a level of understanding you clearly lack.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 04:53 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
^^^^My answer begins at the word "No" (screwed that up because I couldn't manage to care less)
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 04:57 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
No, you're being disrespectful to another being by forcing your views on someone else. That is aggression, a fine example as well.
What you are talking about I addressed, oh, 30 years ago.
So be careful who you assume some kind of superior knowledge over.
If you know something then BE THAT and keep your dignity and mouth closed.

I noticed you didn't address any of my points either, but that's ok. It had to do with a level of understanding you clearly lack.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


How is he forcing views? Curious.
SnarkyPixie

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03/18/2013 05:02 PM

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Thank you for posting this thread. :)

I understand these truths and want to embrace them. But quite honestly I feel like a fish flopping on the shore, gasping for the waters.

This, even after "dying" once many years ago. I know that truth that we will let go and all this is irrelevant. And you will forget who you are and everyone you have ever known.

Yet, I put aside tokens of remembrance and I worry for the present and the future. I have not been able to let go of attachments, and believe me my mini-death at the hospital was true and hard. However our attachment to what we know and think we can "control" is so deep...it's hard to move to a different place because we cannot easily let go.

Think of how hard it is to even have a tag sale. People in this world are hoarders of material things. We are also hoarders of "memories" and emotional things.

But in order to be truly free we have to release it all.

The true struggle is in this release. For some it takes a lifetime, for some it takes many. I'm thinking of that video someone posted today of the lab chimps who were free. How different are we, really? Eventually they all went outside though because they realized how amazingly beautiful that world was compared to "inside." Even though we know their "outside" is still a prison.

The rabbit hole runs very, very deep.
To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.

Blake
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03/18/2013 05:07 PM
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No, you're being disrespectful to another being by forcing your views on someone else. That is aggression, a fine example as well.
What you are talking about I addressed, oh, 30 years ago.
So be careful who you assume some kind of superior knowledge over.
If you know something then BE THAT and keep your dignity and mouth closed.

I noticed you didn't address any of my points either, but that's ok. It had to do with a level of understanding you clearly lack.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


How is he forcing views? Curious.
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Forcing is to impose views on someone else. In my 40 years of practice I've not imposed my views about spirituality even on my own son. Instead it would be in his environment yet entirely his choice whether or not to act towards it, so it would be his idea and not mine.
He did say it feels really nice when I'm in my room practicing.
He has to ask for it. So I don't comment lightly without something behind it.

Instead here someone steps up to read to me from a buddhist Dick & Jane reader.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 05:14 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Btw, my son has had exposure to genuine teachers since infancy and even before that.
There is plenty of material he can resource right here if and when he wants to.

Curiosity has to be from inside oneself otherwise it's just more elementary bs as usual.
The whole thing is mostly experiential.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 05:14 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Thank you for posting this thread. :)

I understand these truths and want to embrace them. But quite honestly I feel like a fish flopping on the shore, gasping for the waters.

This, even after "dying" once many years ago. I know that truth that we will let go and all this is irrelevant. And you will forget who you are and everyone you have ever known.

Yet, I put aside tokens of remembrance and I worry for the present and the future. I have not been able to let go of attachments, and believe me my mini-death at the hospital was true and hard. However our attachment to what we know and think we can "control" is so deep...it's hard to move to a different place because we cannot easily let go.

Think of how hard it is to even have a tag sale. People in this world are hoarders of material things. We are also hoarders of "memories" and emotional things.

But in order to be truly free we have to release it all.

The true struggle is in this release. For some it takes a lifetime, for some it takes many. I'm thinking of that video someone posted today of the lab chimps who were free. How different are we, really? Eventually they all went outside though because they realized how amazingly beautiful that world was compared to "inside." Even though we know their "outside" is still a prison.

The rabbit hole runs very, very deep.
 Quoting: SnarkyPixie


Everyone knows the difficulty in attachments. Our entire lives are subsumed in that aspect from advertising to even parents raising us to have more than they. Not to Become more than they, but to HAVE more than they.

If you you read through the thread, I am of the opinion that it is not so extreme of a thing. It is more of a balancing act.

Do I want good things for my daughters? Of course I do. Every parent does, to lavish their kids with things they had to do without. Make life more comfortable, etc.

The trick is to teach them that that is not what life's about. Those things should not matter to an extent that you sacrifice your passions and god given abilities in order to attain 'wealth'.

There is so much beauty in the world that can be attained without wealth or attachment. I grew up surfing and off-shore fishing. There is no real wealth in that, but the love or it was far, far more attractive to me than anything my parents tried influencing me to do. Be a doctor, or a lawyer, or a CEO. Fuck all that.

I chose to dive into the rabbit hole. I chose to invest my life in seeking the inner depths, not the material.

The outside is a prison because many choose to let their outside define their inside. Totally back asswards. It should ALWAYS be the inside that defines the outside. Most of us have been taught that it is the material wealth we gather that is 'success'.

No. It is the inner self that defines success. Most on GLP realize that. Most on the outside do not.
dmt vector

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03/18/2013 05:15 PM

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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
This is a buddhist point of view not mine, although I agree with that part.
He was disrespectful with me first so i just returned.
Im no trying do be superior, i just replied, is not for this the forum is?
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 05:17 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
No, you're being disrespectful to another being by forcing your views on someone else. That is aggression, a fine example as well.
What you are talking about I addressed, oh, 30 years ago.
So be careful who you assume some kind of superior knowledge over.
If you know something then BE THAT and keep your dignity and mouth closed.

I noticed you didn't address any of my points either, but that's ok. It had to do with a level of understanding you clearly lack.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


How is he forcing views? Curious.
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Forcing is to impose views on someone else. In my 40 years of practice I've not imposed my views about spirituality even on my own son. Instead it would be in his environment yet entirely his choice whether or not to act towards it, so it would be his idea and not mine.
He did say it feels really nice when I'm in my room practicing.
He has to ask for it. So I don't comment lightly without something behind it.

Instead here someone steps up to read to me from a buddhist Dick & Jane reader.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


OK, I agree with you. I do not force beliefs on my daughters. My wife does to a certain extent, but they all know that I do not conform to specific beliefs. I take them all in and distill the teachings.

But, to post or offer teachings is not 'forcing' in any way. Would you rather have it censored?
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 05:17 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
This is a buddhist point of view not mine, although I agree with that part.
He was disrespectful with me first so i just returned.
Im no trying do be superior, i just replied, is not for this the forum is?
 Quoting: dmt vector


Agreed.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 05:21 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Btw, my son has had exposure to genuine teachers since infancy and even before that.
There is plenty of material he can resource right here if and when he wants to.

Curiosity has to be from inside oneself otherwise it's just more elementary bs as usual.
The whole thing is mostly experiential.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34046798


That is something like the way my father raised me. I am 44. Never once did my father impose ANY type of spiritual views on my person. He allowed me to make up my own mind from the ground up.

He calls himself atheist, but that had a different meaning to my father's era and who/where he grew up. I just found that out recently. He abhorred religious organizations from a young age, and it turned him off completely. Then, he went into military, and any 'spiritual' learning was far from his mind as he flew helicopters and planes until he retired.

But, my spiritual choice was never an influence from my parents. I was free to look into anything I wanted.
Life and Love
Live life fully!

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03/18/2013 05:24 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
OK, I agree with you. I do not force beliefs on my daughters. My wife does to a certain extent, but they all know that I do not conform to specific beliefs. I take them all in and distill the teachings.

But, to post or offer teachings is not 'forcing' in any way. Would you rather have it censored?
 Quoting: Septenary Man


And a fine job you have done, OP. I have greatly appreciated this thread and your efforts.

hf
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 05:28 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
This is a buddhist point of view not mine, although I agree with that part.
He was disrespectful with me first so i just returned.
Im no trying do be superior, i just replied, is not for this the forum is?
 Quoting: dmt vector


Sorry you still don't get it even after I explained at length. And you didn't read or address a single one of my points either. You are explaining a "form" and "tone" of buddhism plus instructions.
That tone and form is not one I ascribe to. Just as the bible can be called an external mask people wear to control their world,
the same is done with buddhism or some bargaining chip with the great WOW.
You can use it for points or you can work for it because you don't enjoy living in a state of drunken elephanthood.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 05:29 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Suffering is just a function of time. Without time we are eternal beauty.

Though suffer is big in buddhas headspace it is not the whole.
asiah

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03/18/2013 05:30 PM
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this is art, yur a bitch.

peace
a dream is a letter, open it.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 05:35 PM
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this is art, yur a bitch.

peace
 Quoting: asiah


I've got a much better one, lol. I posted it the other day.

About time you got the balls to show up. chuckle
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 05:37 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Fifth truth: Buddha is in Hell.

Repent.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 05:39 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Fifth truth: Buddha is in Hell.

Repent.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26420358


Of course he is. Fear your god, or you go to hell. :blah:
asiah

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this is art, yur a bitch.

peace
 Quoting: asiah


I've got a much better one, lol. I posted it the other day.

About time you got the balls to show up. chuckle

 Quoting: Septenary Man


balls?

lol..

it was kindness, since you are at least spending the time to help people, but you obviously want a fight, so lets do it.

in haiku.

bring it on..

you, a bitch waiting
for that which will never be
masterbating chi

yur turn.

clock on..
a dream is a letter, open it.
1908247

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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
Fifth truth: Buddha is in Hell.

Repent.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26420358


Sixth truth.
- ? Nus.

-You Hold Witness I Witness

As if he could, by himself, say:
_Alive, therefore life itself.
Azeratel Axo

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[link to youtu.be]
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2013 05:40 PM
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Re: The Four Noble Truths - To Live is to Suffer
The only thing we perrmanently own in our life is THIS MOMENT. Everything else is temporary.

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