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Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!

 
Anonymous Coward
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03/19/2013 07:01 PM
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Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
Every anti-Catholic person I have ever spoken to in real life and on the internet seems to have little understanding of what they attack. The situation is comparable to all the Republican voters who get vitriolic over words like "socialism," or "communism" -- they have absolutely no idea what those things actually mean, yet they accuse Obama of being it.

Why is it that so many Catholic Bashers have no knowledge of what they attack?

Here is my challenge to them all: before you attack the Church over some misconception you have about it, do a quick search in the Catechism.

Here is a link to it:

[link to www.scborromeo.org]

It even has a little search engine.

So the next time you want to accuse a Catholic of "worshipping grapejuice and crackers" or whatever, take three minutes to look it up and learn a little about it.
Rev StarGazer
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03/19/2013 07:05 PM

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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!

“If we are peaceful, if we are happy, we can smile and blossom like a flower, and everyone in our family, our entire society, will benefit from our peace.”
Thich Nhat Hanh, Being Peace

"But ask the animals, and they will teach you,
or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you;
or speak to the earth, and it will teach you,
or let the fish in the sea inform you." - Job 12:7,8

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson

revstargazer (at) hotmail.com
Anonymous Coward
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03/19/2013 07:16 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
The main problem is not what you teach but what you have been doing through the human history. Disgusting, actually if you claim being a spiritual institution.
Anonymous Coward
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03/19/2013 07:21 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
Biblically speaking, catholicism is indefensible.

Lose the ritual and non biblical crap and you have the foundation of something to be completely overhauled and remade into a religion worthy of the name of Yeshua.

Oh yeah, the Messiahs name wasn't Jesus. The translation of his name isn't Jesus. Thank the catholics, once again, for a corruption of the truth.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/19/2013 07:26 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!

 Quoting: Rev StarGazer


Actually, incidents like the Inquisition speak to the validity of the Church, in a way.

Think of it like this: In the past 2,000 years, the Church on Earth has gone through ups and downs. There have been Popes who were evil, ungodly men, but there were even more who were saintly men of God. (Of course, the latter aren't tittilating enough for modern media to mention a whole lot.) In all of it's ups and downs, and regardless of who happens to be at it helm in any given era, the Church has never once contradicted itself in its teachings.

You will never find a Bishop of Rome teaching something in contradiction with another. (And yes, there have even been popes who barely believed in God, much less papal infallibility.)

Here is my challenge: The Church generally believes that when a pope is speaking (a) as pope, (b) with the intent to teach, (c) and about an issue regarding faith or morality, he is protected by God from speaking incorrectly. (In other words, a pope walking down the street having a conversation with a friend about which flavor of soda is best doesn't count.)

If you can find one incident of a Bishop of Rome in the last 2,000 years proclaiming as an official church teaching something which contradicts church teaching today, then I will admit that the papacy is a lie.
George B
Extinct But Not Forgotten!

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03/19/2013 07:27 PM

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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
Every anti-Catholic person I have ever spoken to in real life and on the internet seems to have little understanding of what they attack. The situation is comparable to all the Republican voters who get vitriolic over words like "socialism," or "communism" -- they have absolutely no idea what those things actually mean, yet they accuse Obama of being it.

Why is it that so many Catholic Bashers have no knowledge of what they attack?

Here is my challenge to them all: before you attack the Church over some misconception you have about it, do a quick search in the Catechism.

Here is a link to it:

[link to www.scborromeo.org]

It even has a little search engine.

So the next time you want to accuse a Catholic of "worshipping grapejuice and crackers" or whatever, take three minutes to look it up and learn a little about it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24797199


Sorry, I have no respect for an institution that protected pedophiles . . . I feel the same way about Penn State . . . except at least Penn State cleaned house . . . . grumpy2
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

coffee4

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional, except for death and taxes . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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03/19/2013 07:31 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
the papacy is a lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24797199


The Bible and the teachings of papacy cannot be both right. They contradict eatch other many times. Simple as this.
Rev StarGazer
Just a little bit batty

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03/19/2013 07:36 PM

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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!

“If we are peaceful, if we are happy, we can smile and blossom like a flower, and everyone in our family, our entire society, will benefit from our peace.”
Thich Nhat Hanh, Being Peace

"But ask the animals, and they will teach you,
or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you;
or speak to the earth, and it will teach you,
or let the fish in the sea inform you." - Job 12:7,8

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson

revstargazer (at) hotmail.com
Anonymous Coward
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03/19/2013 07:37 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
The Fundamental Difference between Protestants and Roman Catholics is this: Rome does not see salvation from start to finish as the work of the triune God alone. Thus, justification before God (salvation) is not through faith alone by God's grace alone, but, as Rome teaches, salvation comes by faith + the meritorious works that a man must do (including unquestionable devotion to Rome and *religious* worship to Mary.

There can be no doubt . . . Mary was made mediatress of our salvation. . . . St. Bonaventure says that Mary is called “the gate of heaven because no one can enter that kingdom without passing through her . . . . Go to Mary, for she will intercede for thee with the Son. . . .” (St. Alphonsus Ligouri, The Glories of Mary, 160, 201--see below article on the Catholicism and the worship of Mary).

Rome denies that the work of Jesus Christ completely sufficient for salvation. That faith plus meritorious works must be employed for salvation (as Rome teaches) is, according to the Apostle Paul, Christological heresy (cf. Gal. 1:6-8)--it rejects the work of Christ and hence rejects the Person of the Son, Jesus Christ.

Rome's doctrine of Purgatory, for example, is that when a Christian dies without un-forgiven mortal sins, but who retain either un-forgiven daily sins (viz. venial sins) or "temporal punishment" due for sins are "purged" before entering heaven, so as to be made perfect. In other words, they must suffer for these sins in a place of torment (not hell, though) to be, so to speak, "scrubbed up" (viz. purified) before they can dwell with God in heaven.

[link to christiandefense.org]

more at linky
Anonymous Coward
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03/19/2013 07:37 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!

 Quoting: Rev StarGazer


Actually, incidents like the Inquisition speak to the validity of the Church, in a way.

Think of it like this: In the past 2,000 years, the Church on Earth has gone through ups and downs. There have been Popes who were evil, ungodly men, but there were even more who were saintly men of God. (Of course, the latter aren't tittilating enough for modern media to mention a whole lot.) In all of it's ups and downs, and regardless of who happens to be at it helm in any given era, the Church has never once contradicted itself in its teachings.

You will never find a Bishop of Rome teaching something in contradiction with another. (And yes, there have even been popes who barely believed in God, much less papal infallibility.)

Here is my challenge: The Church generally believes that when a pope is speaking (a) as pope, (b) with the intent to teach, (c) and about an issue regarding faith or morality, he is protected by God from speaking incorrectly. (In other words, a pope walking down the street having a conversation with a friend about which flavor of soda is best doesn't count.)

If you can find one incident of a Bishop of Rome in the last 2,000 years proclaiming as an official church teaching something which contradicts church teaching today, then I will admit that the papacy is a lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24797199


Are you for real? Is this some kind of joke? Wow.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/19/2013 07:39 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
Biblically speaking, catholicism is indefensible.

Lose the ritual and non biblical crap and you have the foundation of something to be completely overhauled and remade into a religion worthy of the name of Yeshua.

Oh yeah, the Messiahs name wasn't Jesus. The translation of his name isn't Jesus. Thank the catholics, once again, for a corruption of the truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 754536


Let's use reason:

1.) Protestantism is 500 years old. It's a NOVEL idea.

2.) Why do you accept the current books of the NT as canon? Did you not know that it was a CHURCH COUNCIL which, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, declarwd which books are Canon? Your accepting of the books of the NT is an implicit acceptance of Church authority. (And for the record, the early Protestants acknowledged this fact. The Protestant OT has FEWER books than the Catholic OT.)

3.) What are your thoughts on the Didache? In case you didn't know, the Didache is a first-century catechism concerning practical matters of the faith.

4.) Have you ever read the Apostolic Fathers? These early BISHOPS were often disciples of the original Apostles, and wrote much concerning the role of bishops, sacraments, authority of Roman Bishop as head of Church, etc. Do you ignore these? And if so why? (And if you reply, "well, they're not on the NT," I would reply kindly asking you to re-read 2.)
-----------------------------------------

Here is a small list to get you started with the Apostolic Fathers:

Cement I, St. (Third Bishop of Rome)

Personal 4th Bishop of Rome Place and dates r. 92 - 101 Writings I Clement or Letter to the Corinthians (c. 96): earliest piece of literature outside the NT historically attested; addressed disputes in the Church at Corinth; II Clement (a sermon)(c. 140): Clementine authorship disputed

Ignatius of Antioch, St.

Personal Martyr for the faith Disciple of John the Evangelist Condemned to die by wild beasts in Rome Brought from Antioch to Rome and wrote seven letters to churches and individuals along the way Place and dates d. 110 Writings Letter to Ephesians Letter to Magnesians Letter to Tralles Letter to Philadelphians Letter to Smyrnans Letter to Polycarp of Smryna Letter to Romans These contain warnings against heretical doctrines; contain detailed summaries of doctrines; and a picture of Church organization with bishops, presbyters (elders) and deacons First to stress Virgin Birth and to use the term "catholic church"

Polycarp of Symrna, St.

Personal Received a visit and letter from Ignatius Represented the Church of Asia Minor in meetings with Pope Anicetus Dating of Easter A teacher of Irenaeus Knew John the Evangelist and other apostles Was a disciple of John the Evangelist Place and dates 69-155 Writings Polycarp to the Philipians Martyrdom of Polycarp (about him)

Unknown Author of the Didache

Personal Unknown Place and dates (Syria) 70-110? Writings Didache ("Teaching"): A compendium of moral precepts, instructions on organization of church communities, liturgical worship and regulation. It contains oldest Eucharistic prayer, directions on Baptism, fasting, prayer, treatment of bishops, deacons, prophets

Barnabas

Personal Surname of Joseph, a member of the early Christian church in Jerusalem (Acts 4:36) Companion of Paul Did missionary work with Mark (Acts 15:39) Place and dates c. 130 Writings Letter of Barnabas Allegorical interpretation of the Old Testament

Papias of Hierapolis

Personal Contemporary of Polycarp Knew of a collection of the "sayings of the Lord" to have been written in Aramaic or Hebrew by Matthew Place and dates (Phrygia) 120? Writings Five Books of Exegeses of the Dominical Oracles: Quoted by Irenaeus Witness to the existence of Jewish Christianity

Hermas

Personal Little known Place and dates (Rome) 140? Writings Mandates Similitudes The Shepherd: a vivid description of early Christianity
Rev StarGazer
Just a little bit batty

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03/19/2013 07:41 PM

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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
 Quoting: Rev StarGazer


Actually, incidents like the Inquisition speak to the validity of the Church, in a way.

Think of it like this: In the past 2,000 years, the Church on Earth has gone through ups and downs. There have been Popes who were evil, ungodly men, but there were even more who were saintly men of God. (Of course, the latter aren't tittilating enough for modern media to mention a whole lot.) In all of it's ups and downs, and regardless of who happens to be at it helm in any given era, the Church has never once contradicted itself in its teachings.

You will never find a Bishop of Rome teaching something in contradiction with another. (And yes, there have even been popes who barely believed in God, much less papal infallibility.)

Here is my challenge: The Church generally believes that when a pope is speaking (a) as pope, (b) with the intent to teach, (c) and about an issue regarding faith or morality, he is protected by God from speaking incorrectly. (In other words, a pope walking down the street having a conversation with a friend about which flavor of soda is best doesn't count.)

If you can find one incident of a Bishop of Rome in the last 2,000 years proclaiming as an official church teaching something which contradicts church teaching today, then I will admit that the papacy is a lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24797199


It was Pope Leo X who made the most infamous and damaging statement about Christianity in the history of the Church. His declaration revealed to the world papal knowledge of the Vatican's false presentation of Jesus Christ and unashamedly exposed the puerile nature of the Christian religion. At a lavish Good Friday banquet in the Vatican in 1514, and in the company of "seven intimates" (Annales Ecclesiastici, Caesar Baronius, Folio Antwerp, 1597, tome 14), Leo made an amazing announcement that the Church has since tried hard to invalidate. Raising a chalice of wine into the air, Pope Leo toasted: "How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us and our predecessors."


[link to one-evil.org]
“If we are peaceful, if we are happy, we can smile and blossom like a flower, and everyone in our family, our entire society, will benefit from our peace.”
Thich Nhat Hanh, Being Peace

"But ask the animals, and they will teach you,
or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you;
or speak to the earth, and it will teach you,
or let the fish in the sea inform you." - Job 12:7,8

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson

revstargazer (at) hotmail.com
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/19/2013 07:49 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
The Fundamental Difference between Protestants and Roman Catholics is this: Rome does not see salvation from start to finish as the work of the triune God alone. Thus, justification before God (salvation) is not through faith alone by God's grace alone, but, as Rome teaches, salvation comes by faith + the meritorious works that a man must do (including unquestionable devotion to Rome and *religious* worship to Mary.

There can be no doubt . . . Mary was made mediatress of our salvation. . . . St. Bonaventure says that Mary is called “the gate of heaven because no one can enter that kingdom without passing through her . . . . Go to Mary, for she will intercede for thee with the Son. . . .” (St. Alphonsus Ligouri, The Glories of Mary, 160, 201--see below article on the Catholicism and the worship of Mary).

Rome denies that the work of Jesus Christ completely sufficient for salvation. That faith plus meritorious works must be employed for salvation (as Rome teaches) is, according to the Apostle Paul, Christological heresy (cf. Gal. 1:6-8)--it rejects the work of Christ and hence rejects the Person of the Son, Jesus Christ.

Rome's doctrine of Purgatory, for example, is that when a Christian dies without un-forgiven mortal sins, but who retain either un-forgiven daily sins (viz. venial sins) or "temporal punishment" due for sins are "purged" before entering heaven, so as to be made perfect. In other words, they must suffer for these sins in a place of torment (not hell, though) to be, so to speak, "scrubbed up" (viz. purified) before they can dwell with God in heaven.

[link to christiandefense.org]

more at linky
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34509900


This is the perfect example of my original post. Everything you say is a misunderstanding.

Long ago, I was where you are. Let me save you the trouble:

Here is St. Ignatius of Antioch (107 AD), disciple of John the Apostle and from whom he received his ordination as a the bishop of the Christians in Antioch:

Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans)
Bluebird

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03/19/2013 07:51 PM

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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
It's pretty futile, OP.

Haters gonna hate apparently.

But I do agree with you. I have NEVER seen a valid attack based on true Catechism. It's always on some human failing or totally self-serving invention.
One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one.

Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway.

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy
Anonymous Coward
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03/19/2013 07:51 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
The only thing Protestants agree on is their attack on the
true faith, Roman Catholicism.

They're going to fall for the anti-Christ's deception unless
they change and come to the faith.



Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/19/2013 07:55 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
 Quoting: Rev StarGazer


Actually, incidents like the Inquisition speak to the validity of the Church, in a way.

Think of it like this: In the past 2,000 years, the Church on Earth has gone through ups and downs. There have been Popes who were evil, ungodly men, but there were even more who were saintly men of God. (Of course, the latter aren't tittilating enough for modern media to mention a whole lot.) In all of it's ups and downs, and regardless of who happens to be at it helm in any given era, the Church has never once contradicted itself in its teachings.

You will never find a Bishop of Rome teaching something in contradiction with another. (And yes, there have even been popes who barely believed in God, much less papal infallibility.)

Here is my challenge: The Church generally believes that when a pope is speaking (a) as pope, (b) with the intent to teach, (c) and about an issue regarding faith or morality, he is protected by God from speaking incorrectly. (In other words, a pope walking down the street having a conversation with a friend about which flavor of soda is best doesn't count.)

If you can find one incident of a Bishop of Rome in the last 2,000 years proclaiming as an official church teaching something which contradicts church teaching today, then I will admit that the papacy is a lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24797199


It was Pope Leo X who made the most infamous and damaging statement about Christianity in the history of the Church. His declaration revealed to the world papal knowledge of the Vatican's false presentation of Jesus Christ and unashamedly exposed the puerile nature of the Christian religion. At a lavish Good Friday banquet in the Vatican in 1514, and in the company of "seven intimates" (Annales Ecclesiastici, Caesar Baronius, Folio Antwerp, 1597, tome 14), Leo made an amazing announcement that the Church has since tried hard to invalidate. Raising a chalice of wine into the air, Pope Leo toasted: "How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us and our predecessors."


[link to one-evil.org]

 Quoting: Rev StarGazer


Wrong.

1.) Not everything a pope says is infallible. (See my post explaining this).

2.) This alleged quote has been debunked. [link to tektonics.org]
George B
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03/19/2013 07:59 PM

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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
It's pretty futile, OP.

Haters gonna hate apparently.

But I do agree with you. I have NEVER seen a valid attack based on true Catechism. It's always on some human failing or totally self-serving invention.
 Quoting: Bluebird


So the Catholic Church's policies which have resulted in bloodshed and torture are only human failures. . . and have nothing to do with the doctrine of the Church?
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

coffee4

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional, except for death and taxes . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
the papacy is a lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24797199


The Bible and the teachings of papacy cannot be both right. They contradict eatch other many times. Simple as this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


The bible contradicts itself many times.
ElusivePisces
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03/19/2013 08:06 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
The main problem is not what you teach but what you have been doing through the human history. Disgusting, actually if you claim being a spiritual institution.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


Well said indeed and totally true.
YankeeRose555

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03/19/2013 08:09 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
Christianity(as a whole, whether Protestant or Catholic), is nothing more than recycled Paganism. The theme of the dying, resurrecting son of god predates Christianity by thousands, if not tens of thousands of years. It is merely a reference to the SUN. I am not a Catholic basher. I am a religion basher. Don't believe in something JUST because you are told to and expected to. Research! Question! The truth is made known without a book, without a religion. It is derived from experience and self-knowledge. All these external things are merely there to keep you from awakening.
“I’m just your average horny little devil.”
George B
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03/19/2013 08:13 PM

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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
The Cathars spent much of 1209 fending off the crusaders. The Béziers army attempted a sortie but was quickly defeated, then pursued by the crusaders back through the gates and into the city. Arnaud, the Cistercian abbot-commander, is supposed to have been asked how to tell Cathars from Catholics. His reply, recalled by Caesar of Heisterbach, a fellow Cistercian, thirty years later was "Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius."—"Kill them all, the Lord will recognise His own."[32][33] The doors of the church of St Mary Magdalene were broken down and the refugees dragged out and slaughtered. Reportedly, 7,000 people died there. Elsewhere in the town many more thousands were mutilated and killed. Prisoners were blinded, dragged behind horses, and used for target practice.[34] What remained of the city was razed by fire. Arnaud wrote to Pope Innocent III, "Today your Holiness, twenty thousand heretics were put to the sword, regardless of rank, age, or sex."[35][36] The permanent population of Béziers at that time was then probably no more than 5,000, but local refugees seeking shelter within the city walls could conceivably have increased the number to 20,000.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Last Edited by George B on 03/19/2013 08:14 PM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

coffee4

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional, except for death and taxes . . . George B
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/19/2013 08:16 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
the papacy is a lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24797199


The Bible and the teachings of papacy cannot be both right. They contradict eatch other many times. Simple as this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


The bible contradicts itself many times.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20517650


When has the Church ever taught this? Popes have been publishing Encyclicals and other writings for centuries. Can you find one writing from one pope saying that murder is a doctrine of faith?

Let me prove my point this way:

A pope's actions, though they may be be scandalous and even heretical, do not necessarily reflect the teachings of the Church.

By your logic, this photo of John Paul II would be "proof" that the Catholic Church believes in Islam now:

[link to www.traditioninaction.org]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/19/2013 08:18 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
Popes have been publishing Encyclicals and other writings for centuries. Can you find one writing from one pope saying that murder is a doctrine of faith?

Let me prove my point this way:

A pope's actions, though they may be be scandalous and even heretical, do not necessarily reflect the teachings of the Church.

By your logic, this photo of John Paul II would be "proof" that the Catholic Church believes in Islam now:

[link to www.traditioninaction.org]
Anonymous Coward
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03/19/2013 08:18 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
The Fundamental Difference between Protestants and Roman Catholics is this: Rome does not see salvation from start to finish as the work of the triune God alone. Thus, justification before God (salvation) is not through faith alone by God's grace alone, but, as Rome teaches, salvation comes by faith + the meritorious works that a man must do (including unquestionable devotion to Rome and *religious* worship to Mary.

There can be no doubt . . . Mary was made mediatress of our salvation. . . . St. Bonaventure says that Mary is called “the gate of heaven because no one can enter that kingdom without passing through her . . . . Go to Mary, for she will intercede for thee with the Son. . . .” (St. Alphonsus Ligouri, The Glories of Mary, 160, 201--see below article on the Catholicism and the worship of Mary).

Rome denies that the work of Jesus Christ completely sufficient for salvation. That faith plus meritorious works must be employed for salvation (as Rome teaches) is, according to the Apostle Paul, Christological heresy (cf. Gal. 1:6-8)--it rejects the work of Christ and hence rejects the Person of the Son, Jesus Christ.

Rome's doctrine of Purgatory, for example, is that when a Christian dies without un-forgiven mortal sins, but who retain either un-forgiven daily sins (viz. venial sins) or "temporal punishment" due for sins are "purged" before entering heaven, so as to be made perfect. In other words, they must suffer for these sins in a place of torment (not hell, though) to be, so to speak, "scrubbed up" (viz. purified) before they can dwell with God in heaven.

[link to christiandefense.org]

more at linky
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34509900


This is the perfect example of my original post. Everything you say is a misunderstanding.

Long ago, I was where you are. Let me save you the trouble:

Here is St. Ignatius of Antioch (107 AD), disciple of John the Apostle and from whom he received his ordination as a the bishop of the Christians in Antioch:

Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24797199


where is the misunderstanding? either your saved by works or through faith by the finished work on the cross by the Great God and Savior Jesus Christ.
YankeeRose555

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03/19/2013 08:20 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
the papacy is a lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24797199


The Bible and the teachings of papacy cannot be both right. They contradict eatch other many times. Simple as this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


The bible contradicts itself many times.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20517650


When has the Church ever taught this? Popes have been publishing Encyclicals and other writings for centuries. Can you find one writing from one pope saying that murder is a doctrine of faith?

Let me prove my point this way:

A pope's actions, though they may be be scandalous and even heretical, do not necessarily reflect the teachings of the Church.

By your logic, this photo of John Paul II would be "proof" that the Catholic Church believes in Islam now:

[link to www.traditioninaction.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24797199


Actually, the Catholic church CREATED Islam.
“I’m just your average horny little devil.”
George B
Extinct But Not Forgotten!

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03/19/2013 08:22 PM

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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
Historians use the term "Medieval Inquisition" to describe the various inquisitions that started around 1184, including the Episcopal Inquisition (1184–1230s) and later the Papal Inquisition (1230s). These inquisitions responded to large popular movements throughout Europe considered apostate or heretical to Christianity, in particular the Cathars in southern France and the Waldensians in both southern France and northern Italy. Other Inquisitions followed after these first inquisition movements. Legal basis for some inquisitorial activity came from Pope Innocent IV's papal bull Ad extirpanda of 1252, which explicitly authorized (and defined the appropriate circumstances for) the use of torture by the Inquisition for eliciting confessions from heretics.[21] By 1256 inquisitors were given absolution if they used instruments of torture.[22]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Last Edited by George B on 03/19/2013 08:23 PM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

coffee4

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional, except for death and taxes . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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03/19/2013 08:25 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
Christianity(as a whole, whether Protestant or Catholic), is nothing more than recycled Paganism. The theme of the dying, resurrecting son of god predates Christianity by thousands, if not tens of thousands of years. It is merely a reference to the SUN. I am not a Catholic basher. I am a religion basher. Don't believe in something JUST because you are told to and expected to. Research! Question! The truth is made known without a book, without a religion. It is derived from experience and self-knowledge. All these external things are merely there to keep you from awakening.
 Quoting: YankeeRose555


Jordan Maxwell tell you this, or maybe some other liberal scholar. The greatest records from antiquity are the bible nothing from antiquity even comes close. Show me the triune God that predates, and not a triad either. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One God.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/19/2013 08:27 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
The Fundamental Difference between Protestants and Roman Catholics is this: Rome does not see salvation from start to finish as the work of the triune God alone. Thus, justification before God (salvation) is not through faith alone by God's grace alone, but, as Rome teaches, salvation comes by faith + the meritorious works that a man must do (including unquestionable devotion to Rome and *religious* worship to Mary.

There can be no doubt . . . Mary was made mediatress of our salvation. . . . St. Bonaventure says that Mary is called “the gate of heaven because no one can enter that kingdom without passing through her . . . . Go to Mary, for she will intercede for thee with the Son. . . .” (St. Alphonsus Ligouri, The Glories of Mary, 160, 201--see below article on the Catholicism and the worship of Mary).

Rome denies that the work of Jesus Christ completely sufficient for salvation. That faith plus meritorious works must be employed for salvation (as Rome teaches) is, according to the Apostle Paul, Christological heresy (cf. Gal. 1:6-8)--it rejects the work of Christ and hence rejects the Person of the Son, Jesus Christ.

Rome's doctrine of Purgatory, for example, is that when a Christian dies without un-forgiven mortal sins, but who retain either un-forgiven daily sins (viz. venial sins) or "temporal punishment" due for sins are "purged" before entering heaven, so as to be made perfect. In other words, they must suffer for these sins in a place of torment (not hell, though) to be, so to speak, "scrubbed up" (viz. purified) before they can dwell with God in heaven.

[link to christiandefense.org]

more at linky
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34509900


This is the perfect example of my original post. Everything you say is a misunderstanding.

Long ago, I was where you are. Let me save you the trouble:

Here is St. Ignatius of Antioch (107 AD), disciple of John the Apostle and from whom he received his ordination as a the bishop of the Christians in Antioch:

Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24797199


where is the misunderstanding? either your saved by works or through faith by the finished work on the cross by the Great God and Savior Jesus Christ.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34509900


When has the Church denied this?

Look at it this way: the Protestants and Catholics both preach Christ; the difference lies in the way they do it, though.

Protestant: Preaches Christ without the Cross.

Catholic: Preaches Christ WITH the Cross.

The Catholic Church teaches that the act of Salvation was done on the Cross. It was a complete event in history.

But, following Christ is not an "insta-save" thing. Salvation is a lifelong journey to Christ.

Christ does not magically take away your personal cross; rather, He says, "pick up your cross and follow me."
YankeeRose555

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03/19/2013 08:29 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
Christianity(as a whole, whether Protestant or Catholic), is nothing more than recycled Paganism. The theme of the dying, resurrecting son of god predates Christianity by thousands, if not tens of thousands of years. It is merely a reference to the SUN. I am not a Catholic basher. I am a religion basher. Don't believe in something JUST because you are told to and expected to. Research! Question! The truth is made known without a book, without a religion. It is derived from experience and self-knowledge. All these external things are merely there to keep you from awakening.
 Quoting: YankeeRose555


Jordan Maxwell tell you this, or maybe some other liberal scholar. The greatest records from antiquity are the bible nothing from antiquity even comes close. Show me the triune God that predates, and not a triad either. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One God.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34509900


No. This knowledge was even known by the early church fathers. When they were asked why Jesus did the same things that the pagan dieties did, they surmised that the devil imitated truth beforehand. lol All Pagan belief systems had the same story, only it was known to be a myth. Christianity makes the myth literal by marrying Judaism to Paganism, and in doing so, leads man astray. Oh, and for three-somes, Pagans have the Triple Goddess....Maiden, Mother, Crone.
“I’m just your average horny little devil.”
YankeeRose555

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03/19/2013 08:31 PM
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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
Christianity(as a whole, whether Protestant or Catholic), is nothing more than recycled Paganism. The theme of the dying, resurrecting son of god predates Christianity by thousands, if not tens of thousands of years. It is merely a reference to the SUN. I am not a Catholic basher. I am a religion basher. Don't believe in something JUST because you are told to and expected to. Research! Question! The truth is made known without a book, without a religion. It is derived from experience and self-knowledge. All these external things are merely there to keep you from awakening.
 Quoting: YankeeRose555


Jordan Maxwell tell you this, or maybe some other liberal scholar. The greatest records from antiquity are the bible nothing from antiquity even comes close. Show me the triune God that predates, and not a triad either. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One God.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34509900


No. This knowledge was even known by the early church fathers. When they were asked why Jesus did the same things that the pagan dieties did, they surmised that the devil imitated truth beforehand. lol All Pagan belief systems had the same story, only it was known to be a myth. Christianity makes the myth literal by marrying Judaism to Paganism, and in doing so, leads man astray. Oh, and for three-somes, Pagans have the Triple Goddess....Maiden, Mother, Crone.
 Quoting: YankeeRose555

And when Paul said, "The letter killeth", he was referring to the literalization of the myth.
“I’m just your average horny little devil.”
Angel Helper

User ID: 283243
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05/02/2013 11:59 AM

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Re: Most Catholic Bashers Flail the Fists In Ignorance!
The only thing Protestants agree on is their attack on the
true faith, Roman Catholicism.

They're going to fall for the anti-Christ's deception unless
they change and come to the faith.



Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213


amen, so true
Live and let live, for we all have our own lessons to learn.

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