Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 2,580 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 1,587,065
Pageviews Today: 2,043,267Threads Today: 369Posts Today: 7,660
02:39 PM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Judas Iscariot obeyed divine ordinance by turning in Jesus and thus saving the world from damnation

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78441
United States
04/06/2006 06:28 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Judas Iscariot obeyed divine ordinance by turning in Jesus and thus saving the world from damnation
The "Gospel of Judas"

Interview With Father Thomas Williams, Theology Dean

ROME, APRIL 5, 2006 (Zenit.org).- The National Geographic Society has announced its intentions to publish an English translation of an ancient text called "The Gospel of Judas" later this month.

The 31-page manuscript, written in Coptic, purportedly surfaced in Geneva in 1983 and has only been translated now.

ZENIT asked Legionary Father Thomas D. Williams, dean of theology at the Regina Apostolorum university in Rome, to comment on the relevance of the discovery.

Q: What is the "Gospel of Judas"?

Father Williams: Though the manuscript still must be authenticated, it likely represents a fourth- or fifth-century text, and is a copy of an earlier document produced by a Gnostic sect called the Cainites.

The document paints Judas Iscariot in a positive light, and describes him as obeying a divine ordinance in handing over Jesus to the authorities for the salvation of the world.

It may well be a copy of the "Gospel of Judas" referred to by St. Irenaeus of Lyons in his work "Against the Heresies," written around A.D. 180.

Q: If authentic, what challenge would this document pose to traditional Christian belief? Will it "shake Christianity to its foundations" as some press releases have suggested?

Father Williams: Certainly not. The Gnostic gospels, of which there are many besides this one, are not Christian documents per se, since they proceed from a syncretistic sect that incorporated elements from different religions, including Christianity.

From the moment of their appearance, the Christian community rejected these documents because of their incompatibility with the Christian faith.

The "Gospel of Judas" would be a document of this sort, which could have great historical value, since it contributes to our knowledge of the Gnostic movement, but it poses no direct challenge to Christianity.

Q: Is it true that the Church has tried to cover up this text and other apocryphal texts?

Father Williams: These are myths circulated by Dan Brown and other conspiracy theorists.

You can go to any Catholic bookstore and pick up a copy of the Gnostic gospels. Christians may not believe them to be true, but there is no attempt to hide them.

Q: But doesn't an early document of this sort rival orthodox Christian sources, such as the four canonical Gospels?

Father Williams: Remember that Gnosticism arose in the middle of the second century, and the "Gospel of Judas," if authentic, probably dates back to the mid- to late second century.

To put a historical perspective on things, that would be like you or me writing a text now on the American Civil War and having that text later used as a primary historical source on the war. The text could not have been written by eyewitnesses, the way at least two of the canonical Gospels were.

Q: Why would the leaders of the Gnostic movement have been interested in Judas?

Father Williams: One of the major differences between Gnostic belief and that of Christianity concerns the origins of evil in the universe.

Christians believe that a good God created a good world, and that through the abuse of free will, sin and corruption entered the world and produced disorder and suffering.

The Gnostics blamed God for the evil in the world and claimed that he created the world in a disordered and flawed way. Thus they champion the rehabilitation of Old Testament figures such as Cain, who killed his brother Abel, and Esau, the elder brother of Jacob, who sold his birthright for a plate of pottage.

Judas fits perfectly into the Gnostic agenda of showing that God intends evil for the world.

Q: But wasn't Judas' betrayal a necessary part of God's plan, as this text suggests?

Father Williams: Being omniscient, God knows full well what choices we will make and weaves even our bad decisions into his providential plan for the world.

In his last published book, Pope John Paul II eloquently reflected on how God continues to bring good out of even the worst evil that man can produce.

That doesn't mean, however, that God intends for us to do evil, or that he intended for Judas to betray Jesus. If it wasn't Judas, it would have been someone else. The authorities had already decided to put Jesus to death, and it was just a matter of time.

Q: What is the Church's position regarding Judas? Is it possible to "rehabilitate" him?

Father Williams: Though the Catholic Church has a canonization process by which it declares certain persons to be in heaven, as saints, it has no such process for declaring people to be condemned.

Historically, many have thought that Judas is probably in hell, because of Jesus' severe indictment of Judas: "It would be better for that man if he had never been born," as he says in Matthew 26:24. But even these words do not offer conclusive evidence regarding his fate.

In his 1994 book, "Crossing the Threshold of Hope," Pope John Paul II wrote that Jesus' words "do not allude for certain to eternal damnation."

Q: But if anyone deserves hell, wouldn't it be Judas?

Father Williams: Surely many people deserve hell, but we must remember that the mercy of God is infinitely greater than our wickedness.

Peter and Judas committed very similar faults: Peter denied Jesus three times, and Judas handed him over. And yet now Peter is remembered as a saint and Judas simply as the traitor.

The main difference between the two is not the nature or gravity of their sin, but rather their willingness to accept God's mercy. Peter wept for his sins, came back to Jesus, and was pardoned. The Gospel describes Judas as hanging himself in despair.

Q: Why is the "Gospel of Judas" arousing so much interest?

Father Williams: Such theories regarding Judas are certainly not new.

It's enough to remember the 1973 play "Jesus Christ Superstar," where Judas sings, "I have no thought at all about my own reward. I really didn't come here of my own accord," or Taylor Caldwell's 1977 novel "I, Judas."

The enormous economic success of "The Da Vinci Code" has undoubtedly stirred up the pot, and provided financial incentive for theories of this sort.
stgeorge
User ID: 74040
Canada
04/06/2006 06:30 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Judas Iscariot obeyed divine ordinance by turning in Jesus and thus saving the world from damnation
Judas was rounded up and leaned on. That is why he turned him in,fear for his personal safety.Did he not throw back the silver?
Eagle # 1
User ID: 78450
United States
04/06/2006 06:43 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Judas Iscariot obeyed divine ordinance by turning in Jesus and thus saving the world from damnation
There is one MORE totally overlooked bit of biblical history that diserves attention, ladies.

When Eve told Adam that she had eaten the apple from the tree of knowledge, he COULD have said ... " THAT'S too bad. YOU are doomed, for God told US not to do that. I'll always think of you with pity."

BUT, he DIDN'T desert her in her time of need, BUT took the burden of sin upon himself and DIDN'T make excuses !

Besides, having a 'clean slate' , as it were, he might have expected God to make another mate for him, after God disposed of his 'mistake'.

Just a little food for though, ladies.
Guess that's why I always liked that song
Stand BY your Man.

Eagle
Discotrish
User ID: 59866
United States
04/06/2006 06:44 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Judas Iscariot obeyed divine ordinance by turning in Jesus and thus saving the world from damnation
Yeah, Hitler too, in order to get the Jews back to Israel. Right!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78527
United States
04/06/2006 09:43 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Judas Iscariot obeyed divine ordinance by turning in Jesus and thus saving the world from damnation
I'll watch the show.
Miscreant

User ID: 278
United States
04/06/2006 09:59 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Judas Iscariot obeyed divine ordinance by turning in Jesus and thus saving the world from damnation
Here's something else, there is another Jewish tale of Genesis that is excluded from the Old Testament, the Enochian text, in which "Yahweh" laments, "Lo, they have become like us," and hid the tree of Life from them by banishing them from the Garden.

The Tree of Life is also known as Yggdrasil and it is that which is so big it takes a lifetime to cross one bit of its bark.

The myth of the Garden symbolizes our "fall" from innocence (yet ignorance) by forcing us out to the greater world. It is up to us to find the tree of life, which is to know the true Self.

It is analogous to the journey a person takes. From full consciousness (without separate Self) baby, to development of ego, identification with a separate Self (rebellion), back to full consciousness as a self-realized human being. As it is in real life, rebellion is necessary to grow.

That we ate of the forbidden fruit and gained knowledge and became like "one of them," meant that we no longer were in a naive self-centered state. We recognized an "other," and hid.

It is through this defiance that we gained knowledge and when we return to the beginning, we receive everlasting life.
99.999% of what affects our reality will be undetectable by our senses. Man must learn to think for himself rather than follow blindly what he has been taught.

-Buckminster Fuller
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 58646
United States
04/06/2006 10:08 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Judas Iscariot obeyed divine ordinance by turning in Jesus and thus saving the world from damnation
demon spawn your an idiot.jesus died willingly he could have called legions of angels to save him but then he would just be like adam who failed...

News