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Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????

 
shady hoax
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03/24/2013 03:32 PM
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Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
So I keep watching this korean fella who keeps changing his country lol! bring up fascinating "text book" responses to the procedures of the EMT an LE, and argues that what happened "makes total sense"....sheesh!

He drags Zephyr into as many arguments as possible to discuss the "formalities" of procedure to sidetrack any "real" common sense thoughts.....such as:

Are the first responders, I believe most to be the local shady hook LE's, really qualified to do what mr. korean fella claims??? It appears we've had responses from multiple members who have friends and family that understand "procedure" probably as well as mr. korean fella....and they say it doesn't make sense?! Which I have to agree with.

The question I have for you mr. korean fella, why all the work up on this? And "who" specifically were the decision makers to keep the EMT's out?
Anonymous Coward
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03/24/2013 04:30 PM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
So I keep watching this korean fella who keeps changing his country lol! bring up fascinating "text book" responses to the procedures of the EMT an LE, and argues that what happened "makes total sense"....sheesh!

He drags Zephyr into as many arguments as possible to discuss the "formalities" of procedure to sidetrack any "real" common sense thoughts.....such as:

Are the first responders, I believe most to be the local shady hook LE's, really qualified to do what mr. korean fella claims??? It appears we've had responses from multiple members who have friends and family that understand "procedure" probably as well as mr. korean fella....and they say it doesn't make sense?! Which I have to agree with.

The question I have for you mr. korean fella, why all the work up on this? And "who" specifically were the decision makers to keep the EMT's out?
 Quoting: shady hoax 29134096


I also want to know why the school nurse hid when she could have helped. Yes she feared for her life but 4 hours? Really? The other teachers had been evacuated and she had to have heard that things were clear right? The police yelling and scouring the halls did not make her go ...oh good police.
Anonymous Coward
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03/24/2013 04:33 PM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
What deceased?

Did something happen in Sandy Hook?

They conducted a "drill" a few months ago...
but that was just an "exercise" with "actors".

Did I miss something???
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26491065
Sweden
03/24/2013 04:35 PM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
So I keep watching this korean fella who keeps changing his country lol! bring up fascinating "text book" responses to the procedures of the EMT an LE, and argues that what happened "makes total sense"....sheesh!

He drags Zephyr into as many arguments as possible to discuss the "formalities" of procedure to sidetrack any "real" common sense thoughts.....such as:

Are the first responders, I believe most to be the local shady hook LE's, really qualified to do what mr. korean fella claims??? It appears we've had responses from multiple members who have friends and family that understand "procedure" probably as well as mr. korean fella....and they say it doesn't make sense?! Which I have to agree with.

The question I have for you mr. korean fella, why all the work up on this? And "who" specifically were the decision makers to keep the EMT's out?
 Quoting: shady hoax 29134096


The victims were shot minutes before the the handful LEOs entered the building.

They saw multiple victims, still bleeding.

They secured the entrance immediately.

Normally they would have rushed the paramedics inside to get more hands fast and better trained and equipped professionals on scene.

It takes time to assess almost 30 victims. They must have been lying on top of eachother. Bleeding still.

In order to assess everyone they must have lifted bodies, dragged bodies, turned bodies over. There must have been blood everywhere.

It is not easy to palpate a faint pulse or spot a shallow breathing with the victim's clothes on. Especially if you are stressed yourself to the maximum. Seeing 20 shot up children has that effect on most people, even hardened local LEOs from Newtown.

If the LEOs followed procedure, they must have spent quite some time assessing AND positioning airways and pulse. They must have worked their way from victim to victim. Kneeling in pools of blood.

Tick, tock, many minutes pass. Minutes CRUCIAL to save a CHILD'S life.

And it is a well known fact that you always can resusitate victims who recently stopped breathing. And with children especially, medical staff often work way past the point where it is even theoretical possible to save lives. Most paramedics want a doctor to say it is enough, stop.

But no. The LEOs from Newtown did all of the above themselves after the entrance was secured. One minute away they had several professional teams with properly trained and experienced paramedics. With the right gear to make correct decisions.

Then the LEOs called in Dr Weirdo and his team of "good photographers". Where the cops went I don't know, they didn't go out because no footage show bloodsoaked LEOs anywhere.

So Carver walked around, saw that they were all shot with the "long gun" and dressed in "kid's stuff".

Hours passed. Then nurse Sally Cox emerges from a closet she spent four hours in! While the LEOs did their professional medical diagnostics assessing the A, B and C in all the victims, while other LEOs searched "every crack and crevise" of the building and while Carver and his photographers did their forensic magic, she had been hiding in a closet next door!

This is beyond everything I have ever heard of!
shady hoax (OP)
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03/24/2013 04:36 PM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
4 hours hidden in a closet and this "crack team" of LE's from sandy hook who can do "all" text book requirements to attempt to save lives "on their very own, don't need no help -thank you very much, and you all can sit your asses down at the firehouse and walk around in circles or stand around and look stupid".....while we do our trained professional best!

but:

CAN'T FIND LADY'S IN THE CLOSET!!??? REALLY? I MEAN...REALLY?? 4 friggin' hours???? AND THEY CAME OUT OF THE CLOSET ALL BY THEMSELVES???

this is competence?
Rose
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03/24/2013 04:36 PM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
What deceased?

Did something happen in Sandy Hook?

They conducted a "drill" a few months ago...
but that was just an "exercise" with "actors".

Did I miss something???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10428886


lolsign

I suspect there is more literal truth to this statement.
shady hoax (OP)
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03/24/2013 04:38 PM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
sorry, i had to hijack my own thread to answer cox in the closet.....
Phylax

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03/24/2013 04:48 PM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
So I keep watching this korean fella who keeps changing his country lol! bring up fascinating "text book" responses to the procedures of the EMT an LE, and argues that what happened "makes total sense"....sheesh!

He drags Zephyr into as many arguments as possible to discuss the "formalities" of procedure to sidetrack any "real" common sense thoughts.....such as:

Are the first responders, I believe most to be the local shady hook LE's, really qualified to do what mr. korean fella claims??? It appears we've had responses from multiple members who have friends and family that understand "procedure" probably as well as mr. korean fella....and they say it doesn't make sense?! Which I have to agree with.

The question I have for you mr. korean fella, why all the work up on this? And "who" specifically were the decision makers to keep the EMT's out?
 Quoting: shady hoax 29134096


It isn't so much a question of qualifications as it is a question of liability. Law enforcement is responsible for making it safe for EMS. EMS is responsible for checking vitals, placing airways, performing CPR, and evacuation to hospitals. The rules are there to shield law enforcement from liability.

At Sandy Hook law enforcement appeared to put itself at risk of tremoundous liability - for no reason. Why would they do such a thing? Perhaps they knew there would be no skeptical, angry, and litigious parents.
shady hoax (OP)
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03/24/2013 04:52 PM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
most excellent Phylax.....

makes sense to this country boy!
Zephyr
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03/24/2013 04:54 PM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
Great points, Phylax.
monimu

User ID: 3041808
United States
03/24/2013 07:28 PM

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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
bump
Anonymous Coward
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03/24/2013 08:52 PM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
So I keep watching this korean fella who keeps changing his country lol! bring up fascinating "text book" responses to the procedures of the EMT an LE, and argues that what happened "makes total sense"....sheesh!

He drags Zephyr into as many arguments as possible to discuss the "formalities" of procedure to sidetrack any "real" common sense thoughts.....such as:

Are the first responders, I believe most to be the local shady hook LE's, really qualified to do what mr. korean fella claims??? It appears we've had responses from multiple members who have friends and family that understand "procedure" probably as well as mr. korean fella....and they say it doesn't make sense?! Which I have to agree with.

The question I have for you mr. korean fella, why all the work up on this? And "who" specifically were the decision makers to keep the EMT's out?
 Quoting: shady hoax 29134096


The victims were shot minutes before the the handful LEOs entered the building.

They saw multiple victims, still bleeding.

They secured the entrance immediately.

Normally they would have rushed the paramedics inside to get more hands fast and better trained and equipped professionals on scene.

It takes time to assess almost 30 victims. They must have been lying on top of eachother. Bleeding still.

In order to assess everyone they must have lifted bodies, dragged bodies, turned bodies over. There must have been blood everywhere.

It is not easy to palpate a faint pulse or spot a shallow breathing with the victim's clothes on. Especially if you are stressed yourself to the maximum. Seeing 20 shot up children has that effect on most people, even hardened local LEOs from Newtown.

If the LEOs followed procedure, they must have spent quite some time assessing AND positioning airways and pulse. They must have worked their way from victim to victim. Kneeling in pools of blood.

Tick, tock, many minutes pass. Minutes CRUCIAL to save a CHILD'S life.

And it is a well known fact that you always can resusitate victims who recently stopped breathing. And with children especially, medical staff often work way past the point where it is even theoretical possible to save lives. Most paramedics want a doctor to say it is enough, stop.

But no. The LEOs from Newtown did all of the above themselves after the entrance was secured. One minute away they had several professional teams with properly trained and experienced paramedics. With the right gear to make correct decisions.

Then the LEOs called in Dr Weirdo and his team of "good photographers". Where the cops went I don't know, they didn't go out because no footage show bloodsoaked LEOs anywhere.

So Carver walked around, saw that they were all shot with the "long gun" and dressed in "kid's stuff".

Hours passed. Then nurse Sally Cox emerges from a closet she spent four hours in! While the LEOs did their professional medical diagnostics assessing the A, B and C in all the victims, while other LEOs searched "every crack and crevise" of the building and while Carver and his photographers did their forensic magic, she had been hiding in a closet next door!

This is beyond everything I have ever heard of!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26491065


Implausible.
Anonymous Coward
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03/24/2013 08:57 PM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
sorry, i had to hijack my own thread to answer cox in the closet.....
 Quoting: shady hoax 29134096


NP. Notice she is not on the interview circut anymore. It's a bad story and if she ever got pressed she would start saying things that will get her in trouble. Every interview she was spoon fed and guided.

But I think they needed this story to explain why the school nurse would not be available to help with first aid to the kids. Oh I see she was scared shitless hiding in a closet for 4 hours. Got it.
shady hoax (OP)
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03/24/2013 09:01 PM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
yeah, no dog and pony $$ for her....the first interview in "print form", she said she saw his face....then in the video interview she says she was ducking down and saw his shoes...

she's just a lying cox...
Anonymous Coward
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03/25/2013 05:01 AM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
yeah, no dog and pony $$ for her....the first interview in "print form", she said she saw his face....then in the video interview she says she was ducking down and saw his shoes...

she's just a lying cox...
 Quoting: shady hoax 29134096


When you think about it....it's really easy to put this all together.

Everything that is questionable has an excuse that you have to believe...nothing tangable to prove it.

Nurse could not help with kids...hiding in a closet for 4 hours yet she was in an office right near the main entrance...what made her decide after 4 hours that she could come out? When she finally did they told her to close her eyes? Well then all she knows is she saw feet. Okay .....

If we were in a court of law her testimony would not stand up.
emanuelG

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Germany
03/25/2013 05:24 AM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
This is beyond everything I have ever heard of!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26491065

bump
Anonymous Coward
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Taiwan
03/25/2013 06:54 AM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
Police and paramedics checked the victims. No EMT's or fire went in. Just police and paramedics.
Ministry of Truth
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03/25/2013 07:04 AM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
Thinking is terrorism.

Don't do it.

ouncsam
love
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03/26/2013 02:16 AM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
good question...
Anonymous Coward
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03/26/2013 05:02 AM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
So I keep watching this korean fella who keeps changing his country lol! bring up fascinating "text book" responses to the procedures of the EMT an LE, and argues that what happened "makes total sense"....sheesh!

He drags Zephyr into as many arguments as possible to discuss the "formalities" of procedure to sidetrack any "real" common sense thoughts.....such as:

Are the first responders, I believe most to be the local shady hook LE's, really qualified to do what mr. korean fella claims??? It appears we've had responses from multiple members who have friends and family that understand "procedure" probably as well as mr. korean fella....and they say it doesn't make sense?! Which I have to agree with.

The question I have for you mr. korean fella, why all the work up on this? And "who" specifically were the decision makers to keep the EMT's out?
 Quoting: shady hoax 29134096


It isn't so much a question of qualifications as it is a question of liability. Law enforcement is responsible for making it safe for EMS. EMS is responsible for checking vitals, placing airways, performing CPR, and evacuation to hospitals. The rules are there to shield law enforcement from liability.

At Sandy Hook law enforcement appeared to put itself at risk of tremoundous liability - for no reason. Why would they do such a thing? Perhaps they knew there would be no skeptical, angry, and litigious parents.
 Quoting: Phylax


Paramedics and police were the decision makers to keep the lower level EMT's out, after checking the rest of those inside who were dead. Lower level EMT's than the paramedic are just glorified ambulance drivers. All they were there for primarily is transport to hospital and the few that needed transport got it. As far as cpr, there is no cpr done in mass shootings on deceased victims.
Zephyr
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03/26/2013 06:09 AM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
So I keep watching this korean fella who keeps changing his country lol! bring up fascinating "text book" responses to the procedures of the EMT an LE, and argues that what happened "makes total sense"....sheesh!

He drags Zephyr into as many arguments as possible to discuss the "formalities" of procedure to sidetrack any "real" common sense thoughts.....such as:

Are the first responders, I believe most to be the local shady hook LE's, really qualified to do what mr. korean fella claims??? It appears we've had responses from multiple members who have friends and family that understand "procedure" probably as well as mr. korean fella....and they say it doesn't make sense?! Which I have to agree with.

The question I have for you mr. korean fella, why all the work up on this? And "who" specifically were the decision makers to keep the EMT's out?
 Quoting: shady hoax 29134096


It isn't so much a question of qualifications as it is a question of liability. Law enforcement is responsible for making it safe for EMS. EMS is responsible for checking vitals, placing airways, performing CPR, and evacuation to hospitals. The rules are there to shield law enforcement from liability.

At Sandy Hook law enforcement appeared to put itself at risk of tremoundous liability - for no reason. Why would they do such a thing? Perhaps they knew there would be no skeptical, angry, and litigious parents.
 Quoting: Phylax


Paramedics and police were the decision makers to keep the lower level EMT's out, after checking the rest of those inside who were dead. Lower level EMT's than the paramedic are just glorified ambulance drivers. All they were there for primarily is transport to hospital and the few that needed transport got it. As far as cpr, there is no cpr done in mass shootings on deceased victims.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33301214


And that's why the crack police officer/field surgeon brought the dying girl out to the glorified ambulance driver to keep her alive?

No offense man, but to hear you talk, LE's primary task was field medicine--not securing the scene--and obviously the glorified ambulance drivers should have been sent in to do the grunt work of going from room to room looking for perps and victims, while law enforcement attended to medical emergencies.

I'm not sure why you keep going on about CPR. There are a lot of life-saving measures besides CPR.

At any rate, it's not true CPR is not used on GSW vics.

From VA Tech report, "EMS Response:"

"One of the victims in 4040 WAJ was a 22 year old male with a gunshot wound to the head. He was in cardiopulmonary arrest. CPR was initiated, and he was immobilized using an extrication collar and a long spine board."

[link to www.hicscenter.org]

Would have been pretty nice if the children who were transported had been extricated using extrication collars, and stabilized on spine boards.

As of today we have no idea what led to the childrens' demise--the initial wound(s), improper extrication, or failure to extricate.
Zephyr
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03/26/2013 06:21 AM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
In the same VA Tech report is a second victim - 18 year old female, GSW to head. CPR is initiated on her as well.

From the Arizona shooting:

The first medical personnel were dispatched at 10:14 a.m. and arrived five minutes later. The medical crews were held back from entering the shopping-center parking lot for three minutes while the sheriff's deputies secured the scene. The fire engine and ambulance crews were waved in about 10:22:56 a.m., and the race to provide triage and treatment for those who were still living began.

Law-enforcement officers were already administering aid.

Medical professionals call the first hour after serious injury the "golden hour," the time a patient should receive emergency medical care at a hospital for the best outcome.

Of the thirteen victims transported to the hospital, all but four arrived within an hour of the first 911 calls, according to a first responders' timeline from the Northwest Fire/Rescue District.

"Ideally, all ambulances are on scene for only 10 minutes before transporting a patient away, Goldberg said.

Only one of 13 ambulances left the scene within 10 minutes of its arrival. It was carrying Giffords.

The rest ranged between 11 and 29 minutes.

"Really we understand in trauma, especially in penetrating trauma, we don't fix, we don't repair," Goldberg said. "We merely try to stop bleeding and stabilize."

[link to www.azcentral.com]

Seems AZ standards/priorities are quite different from those in Connecticut. Seems, in fact, the State could be sued over these differences.
Anonymous Coward
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03/26/2013 06:47 AM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
In the same VA Tech report is a second victim - 18 year old female, GSW to head. CPR is initiated on her as well.

From the Arizona shooting:

The first medical personnel were dispatched at 10:14 a.m. and arrived five minutes later. The medical crews were held back from entering the shopping-center parking lot for three minutes while the sheriff's deputies secured the scene. The fire engine and ambulance crews were waved in about 10:22:56 a.m., and the race to provide triage and treatment for those who were still living began.

Law-enforcement officers were already administering aid.

Medical professionals call the first hour after serious injury the "golden hour," the time a patient should receive emergency medical care at a hospital for the best outcome.

Of the thirteen victims transported to the hospital, all but four arrived within an hour of the first 911 calls, according to a first responders' timeline from the Northwest Fire/Rescue District.

"Ideally, all ambulances are on scene for only 10 minutes before transporting a patient away, Goldberg said.

Only one of 13 ambulances left the scene within 10 minutes of its arrival. It was carrying Giffords.

The rest ranged between 11 and 29 minutes.

"Really we understand in trauma, especially in penetrating trauma, we don't fix, we don't repair," Goldberg said. "We merely try to stop bleeding and stabilize."

[link to www.azcentral.com]

Seems AZ standards/priorities are quite different from those in Connecticut. Seems, in fact, the State could be sued over these differences.
 Quoting: Zephyr 20537083



This procedure is standard everywhere in the civilized world. But not in Connecticut for some reason.

(To all payed shills: Information and story will still live in multiple places. Ready to fly. Call it a life and health insurance. For all near and dear. Peace.)
Anonymous Coward
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03/26/2013 06:53 AM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
ah the crack shill "team" of zephur, tawain, and brazil. dumbest mofo on the webs. andlook there's someone else who pushes the "kids were killed" bull only she couches it a little more cleverly. howya doin, "rose", you fucking pigshit shill
BxMac

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03/26/2013 07:08 AM

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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
Gene Rosen's stuffed monkey Curious George
Anonymous Coward
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03/26/2013 07:13 AM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
and the answer to the op's question is no one because there were no vitals to be checked. you know why? because the whole dang clusterfuck was a hoax from top to bottom and side to side. now it's time to move on to the who done it portion of the investigation. here's my candidate; the fucking pigs with the u.s. military coordinating and integrating their psyops people with local le and their assets in broad media
Anonymous Coward
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03/26/2013 07:43 AM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
In the same VA Tech report is a second victim - 18 year old female, GSW to head. CPR is initiated on her as well.

From the Arizona shooting:

The first medical personnel were dispatched at 10:14 a.m. and arrived five minutes later. The medical crews were held back from entering the shopping-center parking lot for three minutes while the sheriff's deputies secured the scene. The fire engine and ambulance crews were waved in about 10:22:56 a.m., and the race to provide triage and treatment for those who were still living began.

Law-enforcement officers were already administering aid.

Medical professionals call the first hour after serious injury the "golden hour," the time a patient should receive emergency medical care at a hospital for the best outcome.

Of the thirteen victims transported to the hospital, all but four arrived within an hour of the first 911 calls, according to a first responders' timeline from the Northwest Fire/Rescue District.

"Ideally, all ambulances are on scene for only 10 minutes before transporting a patient away, Goldberg said.

Only one of 13 ambulances left the scene within 10 minutes of its arrival. It was carrying Giffords.

The rest ranged between 11 and 29 minutes.

"Really we understand in trauma, especially in penetrating trauma, we don't fix, we don't repair," Goldberg said. "We merely try to stop bleeding and stabilize."

[link to www.azcentral.com]

Seems AZ standards/priorities are quite different from those in Connecticut. Seems, in fact, the State could be sued over these differences.
 Quoting: Zephyr 20537083


So I keep watching this korean fella who keeps changing his country lol! bring up fascinating "text book" responses to the procedures of the EMT an LE, and argues that what happened "makes total sense"....sheesh!

He drags Zephyr into as many arguments as possible to discuss the "formalities" of procedure to sidetrack any "real" common sense thoughts.....such as:

Are the first responders, I believe most to be the local shady hook LE's, really qualified to do what mr. korean fella claims??? It appears we've had responses from multiple members who have friends and family that understand "procedure" probably as well as mr. korean fella....and they say it doesn't make sense?! Which I have to agree with.

The question I have for you mr. korean fella, why all the work up on this? And "who" specifically were the decision makers to keep the EMT's out?
 Quoting: shady hoax 29134096


It isn't so much a question of qualifications as it is a question of liability. Law enforcement is responsible for making it safe for EMS. EMS is responsible for checking vitals, placing airways, performing CPR, and evacuation to hospitals. The rules are there to shield law enforcement from liability.

At Sandy Hook law enforcement appeared to put itself at risk of tremoundous liability - for no reason. Why would they do such a thing? Perhaps they knew there would be no skeptical, angry, and litigious parents.
 Quoting: Phylax


Paramedics and police were the decision makers to keep the lower level EMT's out, after checking the rest of those inside who were dead. Lower level EMT's than the paramedic are just glorified ambulance drivers. All they were there for primarily is transport to hospital and the few that needed transport got it. As far as cpr, there is no cpr done in mass shootings on deceased victims.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33301214


And that's why the crack police officer/field surgeon brought the dying girl out to the glorified ambulance driver to keep her alive?

No offense man, but to hear you talk, LE's primary task was field medicine--not securing the scene--and obviously the glorified ambulance drivers should have been sent in to do the grunt work of going from room to room looking for perps and victims, while law enforcement attended to medical emergencies.

I'm not sure why you keep going on about CPR. There are a lot of life-saving measures besides CPR.

At any rate, it's not true CPR is not used on GSW vics.

From VA Tech report, "EMS Response:"

"One of the victims in 4040 WAJ was a 22 year old male with a gunshot wound to the head. He was in cardiopulmonary arrest. CPR was initiated, and he was immobilized using an extrication collar and a long spine board."

[link to www.hicscenter.org]

Would have been pretty nice if the children who were transported had been extricated using extrication collars, and stabilized on spine boards.

As of today we have no idea what led to the childrens' demise--the initial wound(s), improper extrication, or failure to extricate.
 Quoting: Zephyr 20537083


VA Tech - The West Ambler Johnston hall scene was not a mass casualty. The male RA and a female resident were the only 2 shot at that point. I never said no GSW's get cpr, because thats certainly not the case. Some do get cpr, but even then its an exercise in futility.

Arizona shooting - the only one cpr'd and taken to the hospital was a girl who was a witnessed cardiac arrest likely due primarily to blood loss and therefore that IS one of the few circumstances when cpr may be initiated in a mass casualty.
5 left dead on scene
1 cpr'd and transported cause she intitially had a pulse and was a witnessed cardiac arrest.

so everything there fits into protocol


As far as your continued worry over it, do you know how often someone dead from a GSW is successfully resuscitated? I dont know the exact % but its gotta be one of the most rare things on earth and usually only happens in a very few rare cases where the arrest was witnessed, arrest was from blood pressure loss alone and lack of perfusion of cardiac muscle, and where fluids were given very quickly to restore it(just like what they attempted on the little girl in AZ shooting).







"Would have been pretty nice if the children who were transported had been extricated using extrication collars, and stabilized on spine boards.
As of today we have no idea what led to the childrens' demise--the initial wound(s), improper extrication, or failure to extricate."


- extrication is a phrase used with motor vehicle accident patients, and backboards and collars are rarely used on GSW's for medical reasons, only for ease of movement and transport reasons.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33301214
Brazil
03/26/2013 07:53 AM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
The girl in the AZ shooting who was cpr'd and transported would have been red tag, not black since she had a pulse on arrival - just like the child Officer Chapman picked up at Sandy Hook.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33301214
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03/26/2013 08:06 AM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
Other sources for mass casualty incident protocol. They all have the same basic triage.

black tag = DOA = no CPR



[link to www.ejems.com]

[link to www.mercymemorial.org]

[link to www.nyc.gov]

[link to www.tcemca.org]

[link to www.idph.state.ia.us]

[link to www.northcentralctems.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32745451


Law enforcement can do what they did at Sandy Hook. This is nothing new and is all by the book.


There are 4 levels of triage in Mass Casualty Incident protocol.

green - minor ... Medical treatment can be delayed

yellow - delayed ... Life or limb threat but no immediate danger. Care might be delayed 1-2 hours.

red - immediate ... Life-threatening

black - deceased ... DOA, leave where they lay


here is how they are determined:

adult:
[link to medictests.com]

pediatric:
[link to hsc.unm.edu]

for adults with no respiration, position airway, if still no respirations, black tag/deceased

for pediatrics with no respirations, position airway, if no respirations or pulse, the black tag/deceased

black tag/deceased are left where they are, and in a crime scene that remains until the crime scene investigation is over

It is important to note that law enforcement is trained in this, and can do the MCI triage without direct EMS involvement if they choose, which would generally only happen in a spree/mass killing or other high fatality crime scene.

So thats why no ambulances in front of the school, or EMS going into the school. The coupl injured were taken out, and law enforcement determined the rest to be dead - all by the book.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36595447


Thats right no CPR and no evacuation on DOA's in a mass casualty incident. Thats why the bodies of those that were killed stayed in the school and thats why a bunch of EMS wasnt going in. All thats needed is to know if they are breathing and have a pulse or not and that is straightforward.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36858466
Anonymous Coward
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03/26/2013 08:33 AM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
Also, there are no vital signs taken.

just a check for presence of pulse and respiration
Zephyr
User ID: 20537083
United States
03/26/2013 08:39 AM
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Re: Who checked the vitals on the deceased at Sandy Hook??????
As far as your continued worry over it, do you know how often someone dead from a GSW is successfully resuscitated? I dont know the exact % but its gotta be one of the most rare things on earth and usually only happens in a very few rare cases where the arrest was witnessed, arrest was from blood pressure loss alone and lack of perfusion of cardiac muscle, and where fluids were given very quickly to restore it(just like what they attempted on the little girl in AZ shooting).

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33301214


The issue isn't whether it's difficult; the issue is that protocol demands you 1) try and 2) don't not try.

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