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ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%

 
Anonymous Coward
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03/25/2013 12:11 PM
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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
zerohedge‏@zerohedge1 min
ANASTASIADES SAYS EUROGROUP DEAL IS PAINFUL, BEST AVAILABLE

zerohedge‏@zerohedge2 min
ANASTASIADES SAYS AIMED ONLY TO SAVE CYPRIOT ECONOMY.

zerohedge‏@zerohedge3 min
Cyprus president speaks on TV
 Quoting: Luisport


"Only to save Cypriot economy." ???????????
Does this imply that there is open speculation that there were other aims?
Anonymous Coward
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03/25/2013 12:13 PM
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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
Tanking??? WHen we start closing in on a 30% drop then I will get interested. Until then this shit is flucuation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26860321


30% drop?

You're out of your mind. A 5% one day drop is interesting. A 10% one day drop is serious. A 15% one day drop is the very definition of doom.
No More Lies

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03/25/2013 12:15 PM

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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
Tanking??? WHen we start closing in on a 30% drop then I will get interested. Until then this shit is flucuation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26860321


30% drop?

You're out of your mind. A 5% one day drop is interesting. A 10% one day drop is serious. A 15% one day drop is the very definition of doom.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23556561


that tards never heard of market circuit breakers...10% would mean shut down.
Luisport (OP)

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03/25/2013 12:17 PM

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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
zerohedge‏@zerohedge6 min
ANASTASIADES SAYS DESPITE BITTERNESS, CYPRUS REMAINS IN EURO. Another statement that will be retracted soon
Luisport (OP)

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03/25/2013 12:17 PM

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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
Cyprus Market‏@russian_market41 s
Russians are.. @cr3dit: Schaeuble says "Germans are not the bad guys"
Anonymous Coward
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03/25/2013 12:18 PM
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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
Never desopit more than 9.9% of your total of assets into any set of Banks, stocks, savings and loans.

Use the concept of UnderBanking.... keep your 90.1% of your financial assets in your own hands on your own property.. if it that property is just your wallet.
Anonymous Coward
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03/25/2013 12:23 PM
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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
...


Sure they can. Capital controls can stay on place for a long time if another bailout in needed in the interim and those funds are hit with yet another tax while still being held, most will never see their money again.

"How long could capital controls last?

If you believe Mr Barnier, only a few days.
But as JP Morgan highlighted in a note on Monday, Iceland's unlimited guarantee on domestic deposits managed to stem deposit outflows in late-2008 because the government guaranteed deposits in its own currency, and foreign exchange controls prevented money moving abroad.
"On the other hand, Cyprus is slated to impose losses on deposits based in Cyprus, but not in Cypriot banks' branches abroad, in essence reflecting the fact that its deposit haircut is set to be implemented as a domestic wealth tax," said Nikolaos Panigirtzoglou.
"The IMF forecasts the Iceland's capital controls will not be removed until 2015, suggesting that any Cypriot capital controls could turn out to be quite extended."

[link to www.telegraph.co.uk]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36840093


not really gonna help poor old cyprus is it
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34765812


Nope. Or the EU for that matter.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36840093


Next question. Where are those russians going to deposit now?
 Quoting: waterlily



Lots of options or them.

> Expat-Advice > Offshore > Foreign Bank Accounts (and More) in the “New Switzerland”

Foreign Bank Accounts (and More) in the “New Switzerland”
Posted on January 2, 2013 by Robert Bauman



The last five years has seen a rush of foreign bankers to the island city-state of Singapore. ©Christopher Howey; Fotolia.com
The last five years has seen a rush of foreign bankers to the island city-state of Singapore. Swiss banks, such as Julius Baer, have expanded their operations to capitalize on new business opportunities there. And earlier this year, the world’s number-three commodities trader, Trafigura, shifted its trading center from Switzerland to Singapore.

Just a few steamy miles north of the Equator, close to Malaysia, this small republic (population 5.4 million) has slowly established itself as Asia’s newest private-banking hub by luring the super-wealthy.

In 2005, Singapore began adopting laws patterned after Switzerland’s. Laws that tightened its bank secrecy. But unlike land-locked Switzerland, Singapore sits at the center of Asia’s booming demand for raw materials, close to many key physical markets. It also beats Switzerland on taxes. Official corporate tax rates in Singapore have fallen by 3% to 17% over the past five years but held steady at just above 21% in Switzerland.

The New York Times’ description of Singapore as “Asia’s answer to Geneva and Zurich” fits the bill. And just like those Swiss cities, Singapore is a nice place to live. It’s a modern city, as I found out when I visited.

High-tech industry has replaced rickshaws. But ancient traditions, from feng shui to ancestor worship, are still honored.

It’s the most livable city in Asia, according to financial consultant Mercer’s Quality of Living Survey. And international contrarian investment guru Jim Rogers, whom I met there, agrees. He moved his wife and two daughters there a few years ago and they love it.

A series of reforms in the wake of the 1997-98 Asian financial crises transformed Singapore into what is now one of the world’s pre-eminent platforms for business growth. It is a tax-friendly environment, a global center for private banking and offshore finance, and an ideal base for second residence, naturalization, and even eventual citizenship.

And the country’s trust laws are as good as those you can find in any traditional offshore trust jurisdiction, such as Panama or the Channel Islands. When Singapore, along with Switzerland, finally agreed after much OECD pressure to adopt tax-information exchange under Article 26, it was from a much stronger privacy basis than most countries.

They did it by renegotiating existing individual double tax treaties, not with any blanket policy adoption—an unusual procedure that permitted tough negotiating and ruled out fishing expeditions, required showing evidence of actual tax evasion and allowing account holders to be notified and appeals allowed.

The number of private banks operating in Singapore has more than doubled in recent years. The Singapore Monetary Authority estimates that assets held by banks in Singapore have grown by 20% each year since 2000, to nearly US$700 billion in 2012.

Singapore’s Oversea-Chinese Banking Corp. retained the 2012 title of the world’s financially strongest bank for the second year. Two other Singaporean lenders, United Overseas Bank Ltd. (UOB) and DBS Group Holdings (DBS), were also among the 10 strongest.

Singapore enjoys one of the world’s strongest currencies, the Singapore dollar, backed by one of the world’s largest currency reserves. There is low government debt, strong protections for investors, and many listed public companies that are industrial leaders in fields ranging from shipping and ports to oilfield services and water desalination.

The government is also allowing foreigners, especially Europeans, who meet its wealth requirements to buy land and become permanent residents. The goal is to attract private wealth from across Asia, as well as riches that Europeans and other Westerners are moving out of Switzerland and EU nations to avoid new tax and reporting laws there.

Singapore offers a foreign investors’ citizenship program called the “Scheme for Entrepreneurs.” It was designed mainly for wealthy residents of Hong Kong who wished to secure a place for themselves and their families in a similar, bustling economic environment before Communist China’s takeover in 1997.

Various organizations have listed Singapore as the world’s most open, most liberal economy… number two for the best investment potential… and first in Asia and fourth in the world for the lowest level of economic corruption.

Singapore makes perfect sense as a destination for those seeking a new home for themselves or their wealth. The money flowing to it from the U.S., Europe, and Asia demonstrates perfectly how one little nation, in the borderless world of finance, can become a roaring success with sensible free-market policies and and an open door attitude.

[link to internationalliving.com]
Luisport (OP)

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03/25/2013 12:26 PM

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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
Cyprus Market‏@russian_market41 s
Russians are.. @cr3dit: Schaeuble says "Germans are not the bad guys"
 Quoting: Luisport


zerohedge‏@zerohedge4 min
The German government’s politics are “sensible and responsible” - Schaeuble
No More Lies

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03/25/2013 12:29 PM

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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
Cyprus Market‏@russian_market41 s
Russians are.. @cr3dit: Schaeuble says "Germans are not the bad guys"
 Quoting: Luisport


zerohedge‏@zerohedge4 min
The German government’s politics are “sensible and responsible” - Schaeuble
 Quoting: Luisport


How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.- Hitler
Anonymous Coward
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03/25/2013 12:47 PM
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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
how long do they think they can stop people withdrawing their money? they cant hang on to it forever
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34765812


Sure they can. Capital controls can stay on place for a long time if another bailout in needed in the interim and those funds are hit with yet another tax while still being held, most will never see their money again.

"How long could capital controls last?

If you believe Mr Barnier, only a few days.
But as JP Morgan highlighted in a note on Monday, Iceland's unlimited guarantee on domestic deposits managed to stem deposit outflows in late-2008 because the government guaranteed deposits in its own currency, and foreign exchange controls prevented money moving abroad.
"On the other hand, Cyprus is slated to impose losses on deposits based in Cyprus, but not in Cypriot banks' branches abroad, in essence reflecting the fact that its deposit haircut is set to be implemented as a domestic wealth tax," said Nikolaos Panigirtzoglou.
"The IMF forecasts the Iceland's capital controls will not be removed until 2015, suggesting that any Cypriot capital controls could turn out to be quite extended."

[link to www.telegraph.co.uk]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36840093


not really gonna help poor old cyprus is it
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34765812


Nope. Or the EU for that matter.

"The Cypriot bank-restructuring plan may not raise sufficient funds. It will encourage deposit flight, compounding the problems. As with Greece, there is a risk that Cyprus will need additional assistance, entailing further write-offs of depositors’ funds. And, as with Greece, privatization proceeds and the revenue from increased taxes may not reach targeted levels.

In 147 banking crises since 1970 tracked by the IMF, no depositors, irrespective of the amounts held and the banks with whom the deposits were placed, suffered losses.

The proposed restructuring also destroys the Cypriot banking industry.

The transfer of losses to depositors and imposition of capital controls make it highly likely that activity will shift to other locations. Given that banking is a major economic activity, this reduces Cyprus’s capacity to pay back its creditors.

Russian businesses are unlikely to continue to patronize Cyrus. Press reports quoted one Russian businessman’s wry observation that the EU had killed Cyprus in one day: “When the Russians leave, who is going to stay at the Four Seasons for $500 a night? Angela Merkel?”



Greater risk to euro zone

Irrespective of the fate of Cyprus, the solution adopted for the country will exacerbate the European debt crisis.


First, the transfer of losses to depositors creates a dangerous precedent. In 147 banking crises since 1970 tracked by the IMF, no depositors, irrespective of the amounts held and the banks with whom the deposits were placed, suffered losses.

Depositors in weak banks in weak countries now may consider the risk of loss or confiscation. This may trigger capital flight from banks in Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Italy and Spain."

[link to www.marketwatch.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36840093

cheers!

very very doomy
2012Portal
2012Portal - The Mayan Calendar

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03/25/2013 12:49 PM

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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
Tanking??? WHen we start closing in on a 30% drop then I will get interested. Until then this shit is flucuation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26860321


30% drop?

You're out of your mind. A 5% one day drop is interesting. A 10% one day drop is serious. A 15% one day drop is the very definition of doom.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23556561


Heck yeah.

The market would circuit breaker at 12 or 15% anyway, so likely never more than a 20% drop in any day.
Mayan Calendar and 2012-
From the love of power to the power of Love -
[link to 2012portal.myfeedportal.com]
Luisport (OP)

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03/25/2013 12:51 PM

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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
Business Insider‏@businessinsider1 min
REPORT: Russian Oligarch Boris Berezovsky Was Found With Marks Around His Neck by @lopezlinette [link to read.bi]
Anonymous Coward
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03/25/2013 12:58 PM
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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
...


Sure they can. Capital controls can stay on place for a long time if another bailout in needed in the interim and those funds are hit with yet another tax while still being held, most will never see their money again.

"How long could capital controls last?

If you believe Mr Barnier, only a few days.
But as JP Morgan highlighted in a note on Monday, Iceland's unlimited guarantee on domestic deposits managed to stem deposit outflows in late-2008 because the government guaranteed deposits in its own currency, and foreign exchange controls prevented money moving abroad.
"On the other hand, Cyprus is slated to impose losses on deposits based in Cyprus, but not in Cypriot banks' branches abroad, in essence reflecting the fact that its deposit haircut is set to be implemented as a domestic wealth tax," said Nikolaos Panigirtzoglou.
"The IMF forecasts the Iceland's capital controls will not be removed until 2015, suggesting that any Cypriot capital controls could turn out to be quite extended."

[link to www.telegraph.co.uk]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36840093


not really gonna help poor old cyprus is it
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34765812


Nope. Or the EU for that matter.

"The Cypriot bank-restructuring plan may not raise sufficient funds. It will encourage deposit flight, compounding the problems. As with Greece, there is a risk that Cyprus will need additional assistance, entailing further write-offs of depositors’ funds. And, as with Greece, privatization proceeds and the revenue from increased taxes may not reach targeted levels.

In 147 banking crises since 1970 tracked by the IMF, no depositors, irrespective of the amounts held and the banks with whom the deposits were placed, suffered losses.

The proposed restructuring also destroys the Cypriot banking industry.

The transfer of losses to depositors and imposition of capital controls make it highly likely that activity will shift to other locations. Given that banking is a major economic activity, this reduces Cyprus’s capacity to pay back its creditors.

Russian businesses are unlikely to continue to patronize Cyrus. Press reports quoted one Russian businessman’s wry observation that the EU had killed Cyprus in one day: “When the Russians leave, who is going to stay at the Four Seasons for $500 a night? Angela Merkel?”



Greater risk to euro zone

Irrespective of the fate of Cyprus, the solution adopted for the country will exacerbate the European debt crisis.


First, the transfer of losses to depositors creates a dangerous precedent. In 147 banking crises since 1970 tracked by the IMF, no depositors, irrespective of the amounts held and the banks with whom the deposits were placed, suffered losses.

Depositors in weak banks in weak countries now may consider the risk of loss or confiscation. This may trigger capital flight from banks in Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Italy and Spain."

[link to www.marketwatch.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36840093

cheers!

very very doomy
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34765812


Cheers! The second page of that article gets even doomier....

If depositors withdraw funds in significant size and capital flight accelerates, then the ECB, national central banks and governments will have to intervene, funding affected banks and potentially restricting withdrawals and electronic fund transfers and imposing cross-border capital controls.

Bank runs and capital flights are difficult to control once they commence. As Sir Mervyn King, the former Bank of England governor, argued, it was not rational to start a bank run but rational to participate in one under way.

Second, the Cyprus bail-in provision will make it increasingly difficult for European banks, especially in vulnerable countries, to raise new deposits or issue bonds. The ECB, national central banks and governments will have to cover any funding shortfalls.

Third, the Cyprus arrangements undermine the credibility of the ECB and EU and the measures announced last year to combat the crisis, which have underpinned the recent relative stability.

The ECB’s Outright Monetary Transactions, or OMT, facility allows it to purchase sovereign bonds to assist nations to finance and lower their cost of borrowing. The facility, which is yet to be used, requires the affected country to apply for assistance.

After Cyprus, it will be politically difficult for countries like Italy and Spain to ask for assistance if required, knowing that if a future debt restructuring is necessary then domestic taxpayers face a loss on their bank deposits.

Cyprus highlights the shortcomings of the EU’s vaunted “banking union.” The arrangements did not provide sufficient funds to undertake any required re-capitalization of banks, an alternative to the levy on deposits. Cyprus also highlights the lack of a euro-zone-wide consistent deposit-protection scheme, backed by EU funds.

‘Two-tier euro’

Fourth, the Cyprus package highlights the increasing reluctance of countries like Germany, Finland and the Netherlands, as well as the IMF, to support weaker euro-zone members. Domestic political considerations and popular resistance to commitment of further taxpayer funds to such bailouts make such assistance increasingly problematic.

Finally, the EU, by agreeing to potentially indefinite capital controls, has effectively created a two-tier euro, undermining the single currency in the long term.

In any debt crisis, there are several possible methods of allocating losses: The borrower bears the losses, either through austerity or bankruptcy. The lenders bear the losses. Or some rich relative (read: Germany) bails out the indebted borrower.

Another option is to ignore the issues, fudge the numbers, and hope that fortunate events will remedy the problems.

Europe has now tried all of the above. Unfortunately, in each attempt at resolution, as shown by the proposed Cyprus package, the measures have become the problem rather than the solution.
Luisport (OP)

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03/25/2013 01:01 PM

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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
Business Insider‏@businessinsider43 s
STOCKS FALL AFTER CYPRUS EUPHORIA EVAPORATES: Here's What You Need To Know by @mamtabadkar [link to read.bi]
Luisport (OP)

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03/25/2013 01:05 PM

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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
zerohedge‏@zerohedge2 min
"Cyprus - A reliable Financial Centre" the full May 2012 presentation [link to www.zerohedge.com] …
Luisport (OP)

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03/25/2013 01:08 PM

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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
zerohedge‏@zerohedge1 min
"Two Lips From Amsterdam" Sends Stocks Sliding [link to www.zerohedge.com] …
Luisport (OP)

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03/25/2013 01:13 PM

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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
aisal Islam‏@faisalislam2 min
Aha. "Bank of Cyprus also owns 80 % of Russia's Uniastrum Bank, which put no restrictions on withdrawals in Russia"
Anonymous Coward
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03/25/2013 01:14 PM
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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
So when does the SHTF now?!


When does it all go to hell?











Thanks in advance!
Anonymous Coward
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03/25/2013 01:14 PM
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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
LOL IVANS not home

Good work Russia.
Luisport (OP)

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03/25/2013 01:24 PM

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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
Jamie McGeever‏@ReutersJamie4 min
German stance on Cyprus points to the possibility of more “experimental” EU approaches in future crises, as ECB loses influence - @Nouriel
Anonymous Coward
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03/25/2013 02:43 PM
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Re: ITALIAN MARKET TANKING!!! BIG BANKS HALTED!!! Italian downgrade rumor is back!!! -2,70%, SPAIN -2,70%
Business Insider‏@businessinsider1 min
REPORT: Russian Oligarch Boris Berezovsky Was Found With Marks Around His Neck by @lopezlinette [link to read.bi]
 Quoting: Luisport


He commits suicide by strangulation.

Good thread here. Massive rip off.
Italy's downgraded 2 point above junk by Moody's so it's doom.


Found nothing about peoples' reaction?

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