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PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26302253
United Kingdom
03/28/2013 06:41 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Alright, so what are we talking about?

How many billions do they need?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15022013


Doesn't matter it will never be enough...as long as they continue to dole out more than they take in it's a continuous ongoing failure...sorta like Russ and his fucked up calendar.
 Quoting: BRIEF


The problem is that the world's fractional reserve system always needs more currency to support the leverage (currency) that the expansion created before. The other main problem is that, it takes money from the working productive society and forces the people that operate this system (banks) to keep shoring up this leverage (leverage is their, the banks worth or value) without creating hyperinflation. How are they able to do that?
The way they do this is that there is two ways to create money. One is productive and expansive that benefits and creates new wealth and a productive society (Fractional lending).
The other is non-productive and contracts/shrinks the economy(direct printing of currencies).
If the money was just printed up and dropped from helicopters on pallets it would work, for a while but, it would sacrifice the leveraged wealth, because money that is just printed and that bypasses the fraction lending scheme cannot be specifically steered or directed to the balance sheets of the financial institutions, to create the illusion of solvency.
I am not getting out the Pom Pom's for fractional lending system but, if it was allowed to work we would not be in this situation. There is too much debt and the world's financial institutions must take a "Haircut" to even make a dent in returning us to some type of productive economy. Problem is that a haircut of "just one" financial institution will effect 50 other financial institutions balance sheets (because the leverage was fractionalized) removing the illusion of solvency.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36969694


You sort of have it right there:

The productive layer is the accumulation of labour surplus. In other words, its the energy that workers expend that adds value which the system then monetises.

The fractionalising of that value (as well as securitising it in equity) magnifies this layer.

That initial layer has been largely transferred, by Western capitalists to Asia where billions now provide that capacity. The second layer still resides in the West.

In other words, the elite have the capacity to minimise EU government and drive the workers into destitution (whilst ensuring that their status as consumers is preserved.)
 Quoting: Marxist


But we're not monitising labour, we're monetising debt, which is where the vicious circle kicks in - we have to monetise more debt to service the existing debt. It's never bloody ending...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36545374
United Kingdom
03/28/2013 06:42 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
This is not about bailing out some of our friends.

I would happily have some of my tax money send to Greece, Portugal, Italy or Spain to make sure some Granny gets her deserved pension on time if the country in question is in trouble. hf

But all we are doing is bailing out banks that got into trouble because Lehman Brothers crashed in 2008.

We are bailing out the big investors.

The rule of “High return = High risk” doesn’t count no more.

If you gable and go bust, some taxpayers will foot the bill.wtf
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36836032
Norway
03/28/2013 06:43 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
KILL THE INQUISTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND DEATH TO ALL........ THAT MAKE FUN. RORFL.
Anonymous Coward
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Norway
03/28/2013 06:43 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Why dont you go jerk off one of your wealthy pedeophile Russian oligarchs.
Anonymous Coward
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Norway
03/28/2013 06:46 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Lacoste

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United States
03/28/2013 06:46 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
hiding
Kappa Sig
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 23556561
United States
03/28/2013 06:46 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Are there lines at the cypriot banks?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 15022013
Netherlands
03/28/2013 06:47 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Well Norway has 15% budget SURPLUS. Unlike other European countries...
 Quoting: An Ordinary Greek 36232885


Let's get 'em!
Luisport (OP)

User ID: 37017409
Portugal
03/28/2013 06:48 AM

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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Are there lines at the cypriot banks?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23556561


no
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 15876003
Australia
03/28/2013 06:48 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
stupid brainwashed fucks who believe this system

bailout?

how can they use the word

look up the definition

how is going deeper into a system of mass deceit, exploitation, deprivation and degradation a bailout?

FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Luisport (OP)

User ID: 37017409
Portugal
03/28/2013 06:48 AM

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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
This is not about bailing out some of our friends.

I would happily have some of my tax money send to Greece, Portugal, Italy or Spain to make sure some Granny gets her deserved pension on time if the country in question is in trouble. hf

But all we are doing is bailing out banks that got into trouble because Lehman Brothers crashed in 2008.

We are bailing out the big investors.

The rule of “High return = High risk” doesn’t count no more.

If you gable and go bust, some taxpayers will foot the bill.wtf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36545374


red_heart
Unixlike

User ID: 23556561
United States
03/28/2013 06:49 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
I'm curious to see how many Cypriots will methodically withdraw their money over the coming weeks. Even at 300euro a day a slow bank run can occur.
Marxist

User ID: 8296504
New Zealand
03/28/2013 06:49 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
...


Doesn't matter it will never be enough...as long as they continue to dole out more than they take in it's a continuous ongoing failure...sorta like Russ and his fucked up calendar.
 Quoting: BRIEF


The problem is that the world's fractional reserve system always needs more currency to support the leverage (currency) that the expansion created before. The other main problem is that, it takes money from the working productive society and forces the people that operate this system (banks) to keep shoring up this leverage (leverage is their, the banks worth or value) without creating hyperinflation. How are they able to do that?
The way they do this is that there is two ways to create money. One is productive and expansive that benefits and creates new wealth and a productive society (Fractional lending).
The other is non-productive and contracts/shrinks the economy(direct printing of currencies).
If the money was just printed up and dropped from helicopters on pallets it would work, for a while but, it would sacrifice the leveraged wealth, because money that is just printed and that bypasses the fraction lending scheme cannot be specifically steered or directed to the balance sheets of the financial institutions, to create the illusion of solvency.
I am not getting out the Pom Pom's for fractional lending system but, if it was allowed to work we would not be in this situation. There is too much debt and the world's financial institutions must take a "Haircut" to even make a dent in returning us to some type of productive economy. Problem is that a haircut of "just one" financial institution will effect 50 other financial institutions balance sheets (because the leverage was fractionalized) removing the illusion of solvency.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36969694


You sort of have it right there:

The productive layer is the accumulation of labour surplus. In other words, its the energy that workers expend that adds value which the system then monetises.

The fractionalising of that value (as well as securitising it in equity) magnifies this layer.

That initial layer has been largely transferred, by Western capitalists to Asia where billions now provide that capacity. The second layer still resides in the West.

In other words, the elite have the capacity to minimise EU government and drive the workers into destitution (whilst ensuring that their status as consumers is preserved.)
 Quoting: Marxist


But we're not monitising labour, we're monetising debt, which is where the vicious circle kicks in - we have to monetise more debt to service the existing debt. It's never bloody ending...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


Without labour, there can be no money. Instead, you would have raging inflation. Its Chinese slave labour that is in fact keeping a lid on the inflationary effects of the current printing.

The debt is merely the secondary layer..it shares that layer with fractionalising and securitising and is the elephant in the room along with the securitising which threatens to overwhelm the slave labour surplus value and trigger inflation of a magnitude we have never seen. This will come in due course once the printing eclipses labour value capacity.

But there is still capacity in that labour value and the can kicking will go on for a bit.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36836032
Norway
03/28/2013 06:51 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Well Norway has 15% budget SURPLUS. Unlike other European countries...
 Quoting: An Ordinary Greek 36232885


Let's get 'em!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15022013


We have a limited economy.. but we had 50 trillion dollars just for one year and had to keep some back... so think yourself about.............. if we do not save you with faith we will destroy you. Do not try to fool us... whatever degree your world is at.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36836032
Norway
03/28/2013 06:52 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
stupid brainwashed fucks who believe this system

bailout?

how can they use the word

look up the definition

how is going deeper into a system of mass deceit, exploitation, deprivation and degradation a bailout?

FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 Quoting: Xeno00000


:D i liek that flying sauser eagler.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 37020970
United States
03/28/2013 06:53 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Alright, so what are we talking about?

How many billions do they need?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15022013


You Dutchies and Krauts should be happy to give Euros to your fellow Europeans! I'm shocked! Shocked! There are people STARVING to death in Portugal, Spain, Italy!!! They need your Euros now!!!!! Hurry!!!!!!

*sarcasm off*
Judethz
Israel is Eternal

User ID: 20521597
United Kingdom
03/28/2013 06:54 AM

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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
+5
Things are speeding up!!
 Quoting: Primus-Cura


i just can't imagine what this can make here and in EU, now had this with worsening situation in Spain and Italy!
 Quoting: Luisport


portx I think that those lazy Germans should quit bitching and work harder.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26302253
United Kingdom
03/28/2013 06:54 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
This is not about bailing out some of our friends.

I would happily have some of my tax money send to Greece, Portugal, Italy or Spain to make sure some Granny gets her deserved pension on time if the country in question is in trouble. hf

But all we are doing is bailing out banks that got into trouble because Lehman Brothers crashed in 2008.

We are bailing out the big investors.

The rule of “High return = High risk” doesn’t count no more.

If you gable and go bust, some taxpayers will foot the bill.wtf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36545374


Absolutely bang on. We're stuffing these banks with liquidity and what are they doing with it? Lending to stimulate the economy? No, they're paying themselves more and more, gambling it on stupid trades and generally pissing up against a wall.

And we're legally obligated to pay higher taxes and in return get fewer services, whilst wages remain stagnant and the money supply gets debased causing greater inflation and making it harder to live, all to support these criminal fucking parasites whilst they laugh at us? It's long past time for a fucking revolution.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36836032
Norway
03/28/2013 06:54 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Alright, so what are we talking about?

How many billions do they need?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15022013


You Dutchies and Krauts should be happy to give Euros to your fellow Europeans! I'm shocked! Shocked! There are people STARVING to death in Portugal, Spain, Italy!!! They need your Euros now!!!!! Hurry!!!!!!

*sarcasm off*
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37020970


OH SHUT UP. We had to learn the lessons of these worlds while they migrated... We know the mind of the Muslim. Do you??????
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31381689
Netherlands
03/28/2013 06:54 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Don't worry you can just take my savings and after that my pension too. My children do not have a need for a life let alone a future of their own.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36836032
Norway
03/28/2013 06:56 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Alright, so what are we talking about?

How many billions do they need?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15022013


You Dutchies and Krauts should be happy to give Euros to your fellow Europeans! I'm shocked! Shocked! There are people STARVING to death in Portugal, Spain, Italy!!! They need your Euros now!!!!! Hurry!!!!!!

*sarcasm off*
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37020970


OH SHUT UP. We had to learn the lessons of these worlds while they migrated... We know the mind of the Muslim. Do you??????
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36836032


Anyways... i cannot tell the Difference from Spain than other country in the middle east... lesser than the Jews.
Luisport (OP)

User ID: 37017409
Portugal
03/28/2013 06:56 AM

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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!

Cyprus Market‏@russian_market2 min
SLOVENIA BANK CRISIS, BUDGET WITHIN MANAGEABLE BOUNDS: RBS

Cyprus Market‏@russian_market3 min
SLOVENIA IS IN ACUTE BANK INDUSTRY CRISIS, RBS SAYS
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36836032
Norway
03/28/2013 06:58 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!

Cyprus Market‏@russian_market2 min
SLOVENIA BANK CRISIS, BUDGET WITHIN MANAGEABLE BOUNDS: RBS

Cyprus Market‏@russian_market3 min
SLOVENIA IS IN ACUTE BANK INDUSTRY CRISIS, RBS SAYS

 Quoting: Luisport


IGNORE! IT _WILL_ FIX
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36836032
Norway
03/28/2013 07:00 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Hey.. i have heard Spain is apart of Rome( the third world ) so. fuck them.
Marxist

User ID: 8296504
New Zealand
03/28/2013 07:01 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
This is not about bailing out some of our friends.

I would happily have some of my tax money send to Greece, Portugal, Italy or Spain to make sure some Granny gets her deserved pension on time if the country in question is in trouble. hf

But all we are doing is bailing out banks that got into trouble because Lehman Brothers crashed in 2008.

We are bailing out the big investors.

The rule of “High return = High risk” doesn’t count no more.

If you gable and go bust, some taxpayers will foot the bill.wtf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36545374


Absolutely bang on. We're stuffing these banks with liquidity and what are they doing with it? Lending to stimulate the economy? No, they're paying themselves more and more, gambling it on stupid trades and generally pissing up against a wall.

And we're legally obligated to pay higher taxes and in return get fewer services, whilst wages remain stagnant and the money supply gets debased causing greater inflation and making it harder to live, all to support these criminal fucking parasites whilst they laugh at us? It's long past time for a fucking revolution.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


You got it. Thatcher really stitched up the world...her and that drongo, Reagan. Pushed for fewer rules on business including banks.

Old bitch is still alive to see her handiwork.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26302253
United Kingdom
03/28/2013 07:01 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
...


The problem is that the world's fractional reserve system always needs more currency to support the leverage (currency) that the expansion created before. The other main problem is that, it takes money from the working productive society and forces the people that operate this system (banks) to keep shoring up this leverage (leverage is their, the banks worth or value) without creating hyperinflation. How are they able to do that?
The way they do this is that there is two ways to create money. One is productive and expansive that benefits and creates new wealth and a productive society (Fractional lending).
The other is non-productive and contracts/shrinks the economy(direct printing of currencies).
If the money was just printed up and dropped from helicopters on pallets it would work, for a while but, it would sacrifice the leveraged wealth, because money that is just printed and that bypasses the fraction lending scheme cannot be specifically steered or directed to the balance sheets of the financial institutions, to create the illusion of solvency.
I am not getting out the Pom Pom's for fractional lending system but, if it was allowed to work we would not be in this situation. There is too much debt and the world's financial institutions must take a "Haircut" to even make a dent in returning us to some type of productive economy. Problem is that a haircut of "just one" financial institution will effect 50 other financial institutions balance sheets (because the leverage was fractionalized) removing the illusion of solvency.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36969694


You sort of have it right there:

The productive layer is the accumulation of labour surplus. In other words, its the energy that workers expend that adds value which the system then monetises.

The fractionalising of that value (as well as securitising it in equity) magnifies this layer.

That initial layer has been largely transferred, by Western capitalists to Asia where billions now provide that capacity. The second layer still resides in the West.

In other words, the elite have the capacity to minimise EU government and drive the workers into destitution (whilst ensuring that their status as consumers is preserved.)
 Quoting: Marxist


But we're not monitising labour, we're monetising debt, which is where the vicious circle kicks in - we have to monetise more debt to service the existing debt. It's never bloody ending...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


Without labour, there can be no money. Instead, you would have raging inflation. Its Chinese slave labour that is in fact keeping a lid on the inflationary effects of the current printing.

The debt is merely the secondary layer..it shares that layer with fractionalising and securitising and is the elephant in the room along with the securitising which threatens to overwhelm the slave labour surplus value and trigger inflation of a magnitude we have never seen. This will come in due course once the printing eclipses labour value capacity.

But there is still capacity in that labour value and the can kicking will go on for a bit.
 Quoting: Marxist


Labour value is a fraction compared to the debt being monetised, we're all running deficits... Debasement of currency is already causing huge inflation especially when alligned with stagnant wages. The inflation is not always obvious, but it's there. That's why we've all been eating surprise horse meat recently - squeezed margins due to rising costs = stealth inflation - more ethanol in your fuel, smaller chocolate bars, smaller meals at restaurants, cheaper materials in clothing. Only a matter of time.

If the derivative time bomb goes off, there will be no can kicking because it'll blow our legs off with it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36969694
United States
03/28/2013 07:02 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
...


The problem is that the world's fractional reserve system always needs more currency to support the leverage (currency) that the expansion created before. The other main problem is that, it takes money from the working productive society and forces the people that operate this system (banks) to keep shoring up this leverage (leverage is their, the banks worth or value) without creating hyperinflation. How are they able to do that?
The way they do this is that there is two ways to create money. One is productive and expansive that benefits and creates new wealth and a productive society (Fractional lending).
The other is non-productive and contracts/shrinks the economy(direct printing of currencies).
If the money was just printed up and dropped from helicopters on pallets it would work, for a while but, it would sacrifice the leveraged wealth, because money that is just printed and that bypasses the fraction lending scheme cannot be specifically steered or directed to the balance sheets of the financial institutions, to create the illusion of solvency.
I am not getting out the Pom Pom's for fractional lending system but, if it was allowed to work we would not be in this situation. There is too much debt and the world's financial institutions must take a "Haircut" to even make a dent in returning us to some type of productive economy. Problem is that a haircut of "just one" financial institution will effect 50 other financial institutions balance sheets (because the leverage was fractionalized) removing the illusion of solvency.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36969694


You sort of have it right there:

The productive layer is the accumulation of labour surplus. In other words, its the energy that workers expend that adds value which the system then monetises.

The fractionalising of that value (as well as securitising it in equity) magnifies this layer.

That initial layer has been largely transferred, by Western capitalists to Asia where billions now provide that capacity. The second layer still resides in the West.

In other words, the elite have the capacity to minimise EU government and drive the workers into destitution (whilst ensuring that their status as consumers is preserved.)
 Quoting: Marxist


But we're not monitising labour, we're monetising debt, which is where the vicious circle kicks in - we have to monetise more debt to service the existing debt. It's never bloody ending...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


Without labour, there can be no money. Instead, you would have raging inflation. Its Chinese slave labour that is in fact keeping a lid on the inflationary effects of the current printing.

The debt is merely the secondary layer..it shares that layer with fractionalising and securitising and is the elephant in the room along with the securitising which threatens to overwhelm the slave labour surplus value and trigger inflation of a magnitude we have never seen. This will come in due course once the printing eclipses labour value capacity.

But there is still capacity in that labour value and the can kicking will go on for a bit.
 Quoting: Marxist


You say the debt is the second layer. The EU banks are levered 26 to 1 on balance sheet. If there was just two layers (the initial debt and the 1 CDS bet against it, it would be a balanced layering) The issue is the other 24 layers that have been added to it bannot be written off or repudiated without printing 23 more leverages.
Marxist

User ID: 8296504
New Zealand
03/28/2013 07:03 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Hey.. i have heard Spain is apart of Rome( the third world ) so. fuck them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36836032


What cobblers are you talking?
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3836763
Indonesia
03/28/2013 07:04 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
want a bailout ? have a haircut first
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28372155
Canada
03/28/2013 07:07 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Doesn't matter it will never be enough...sorta like Russ and his fucked up calendar. 1rof1
 Quoting: BRIEF

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