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PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!

 
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 1052341
United States
03/28/2013 08:38 AM

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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Has it ever occurred to anyone in Europe that maybe Socialism is the problem here? Because America sure hasn't figured that out yet...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


for me, the lack of growing and no labour rules in countries like China and India is the problem...
 Quoting: Luisport


Well I think it is this hybridized system of capitalism/communism/fascism that were using...I call it "Beastism"...

However I'm speaking more in political terms of socialism and it's role in government. The producers will only support the non-producer for so long...

Because you can never maintain a proper balance in the socialist system, eventually there are too damn many non-producers, and the producers revolt against the system.

I'm seriously considering going Galt myself...

I mean right now I pay an average over the last ten years of six figures per year in taxes. Local, state, and federal...if I just stopped producing and lived off of my accumulated wealth, if I only bought what I absolutely needed...well if thousands of upper middle class and high production small business people did this, it would begin to make a dent.

Alinsky thought the revolution would come from the non-producer class, but they are totally dependent and will never bite the hand that feeds them...

No, the revolution is going to come from the producers, because so many of us are tired of footing the bill...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 03/28/2013 08:46 AM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26302253
United Kingdom
03/28/2013 08:39 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
People in Cyprus can't get access to their money, can't get paid, can't pay for fuck all, and yet the S7P makes a record all time high.

Whats wrong with this picture?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36893697


Same old Fed pump backed by media hype and computer algorithms. There's no volume in this market so no one is participating... That's not a market you are seeing, youre looking at a crime scene.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


It is criminal.
Banks are paying huge bonuses for making losses and crashing economies.
Yet not one person has ever been questioned, let alone tried or convicted for this, because the politicians are all friends of the CEOs who run these banks.
Its a fucking joke.
Rbs lost some 3 billion or 5 billion pounds LOST BILLIONS, yet manged to pay out over 1 BILLION in bonuses.
So how the fuck does that work?
Its fraud on a massive scale.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36893697


Barclays fined what? £137mil or something pathetic for fiddling the LIBOR rate to prop up Yen trades. They made billions whilst dicking around with the very rate homeowner mortgages are pinned to.They prbably paid more tax on their winnings than that pathetic fine. And the bloody London Whale fiasco - these guys aren't even good traders FFS!
Luisport (OP)

User ID: 37017409
Portugal
03/28/2013 08:43 AM

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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Has it ever occurred to anyone in Europe that maybe Socialism is the problem here? Because America sure hasn't figured that out yet...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


for me, the lack of growing and no labour rules in countries like China and India is the problem...
 Quoting: Luisport


Well I think it is this hybridized system of capitalism/communism/fascism that were using...I call it "Beastism"...

However I'm speaking more in political terms of socialism and it's role in government. The producers will only support the non-producer for so long...

Because you can never maintain a proper balance in the socialist system, eventually there are too damn many non-producers, and the producers revolt against the system.

I'm seriously considering going Galt myself...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


what is galf?
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 1052341
United States
03/28/2013 08:48 AM

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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Has it ever occurred to anyone in Europe that maybe Socialism is the problem here? Because America sure hasn't figured that out yet...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


for me, the lack of growing and no labour rules in countries like China and India is the problem...
 Quoting: Luisport


Well I think it is this hybridized system of capitalism/communism/fascism that were using...I call it "Beastism"...

However I'm speaking more in political terms of socialism and it's role in government. The producers will only support the non-producer for so long...

Because you can never maintain a proper balance in the socialist system, eventually there are too damn many non-producers, and the producers revolt against the system.

I'm seriously considering going Galt myself...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


what is galf?
 Quoting: Luisport


Going Galt, from Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugs. Stop feeding the system, stop producing new wealth for the government to take and just live off of your accumulated wealth.....starve the bastards out.

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 03/28/2013 08:50 AM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Marxist

User ID: 8296504
New Zealand
03/28/2013 08:48 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
...


Labour rules are anathema and can never prevail. The unions either get hounded or bribed.
 Quoting: Marxist


As so often, many are left with the feeling of 'capitalism is this' 'socialism is that' having never actually seen the pure ideology in practice.Instead we always end up with some mutant cronyism with a left or right bias.Do we think that this is the world that an Engles or Smith or Keyenes dreamed up? Did they write great tracts on embezzlement and profiteering? Nope!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


Forget the rewriters. Marx is ther man. He merely said the following:

Capitalism will globalise taking all with it. It will be a race to the bottom as competition over maxmises. Workers can free themselves from wage labour servitude but they must organise. However, globalism will be inevitable, a new global culture will emerge, everything that means something in our various cultures will just disappear as nothing stands still in capitalism.

Its up to people to make the world they want. However, workers who expect the capitalsit to preserve jobs for them and to help their societies are in for a shock.

After I read capital (I was working as a tax lawyer at the time), I got an almighty scare and went into self employment. Have never looked back. I am still socialist but at least I have some life. My colleagues are working like dogs.
 Quoting: Marxist


Funny to think that Marx already called the Global govt, or NWO as it's popularly called these days (not sure why, its more Same Old World Order).I think I must have believed the capitalists along the way somewhere and largely written him off due to the 'debunking' of his economic theory.Have been coming back to Marx a bit more recently after revisiting Nietzche's Zarathustra. He's pretty sensitive to Marx, I think it's the anti-materialist ideals.I think I've still got a copy of Commy Manifesto kicking around somewhere too! What would you recommend as a good covering of the Hegelian style dialectic?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


Marx was not an economist. He was a social economist. He looked at the culture and said, if you place people in this culture, they are bound to do such and such. For example, outsource, or rort the markets or try to monopolise etc, etc. Workers will get shafted as its their labour that makes them valuable. When that gets too costly, they get the boot. Some will be bootlickers, sort of like capitalist groupies, hanging around for the crumbs.

Other cultures will see capitalism as symbolising civilisation so they will copy it...China, India, Japan. It will spread and become a global culture. Nothing is sacred, even the family will fall apart. People will become aliented with themselves, their families, their work colleagues and their societies. Common sense stuff. Of course, people now say stupid thinhgs like Marx was a capitalist. Thats cos they are confused.

Heres a link to dialecticism, hegelian and marxist:

[link to www.marxists.org]
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 1052341
United States
03/28/2013 08:55 AM

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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
...


As so often, many are left with the feeling of 'capitalism is this' 'socialism is that' having never actually seen the pure ideology in practice.Instead we always end up with some mutant cronyism with a left or right bias.Do we think that this is the world that an Engles or Smith or Keyenes dreamed up? Did they write great tracts on embezzlement and profiteering? Nope!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


Forget the rewriters. Marx is ther man. He merely said the following:

Capitalism will globalise taking all with it. It will be a race to the bottom as competition over maxmises. Workers can free themselves from wage labour servitude but they must organise. However, globalism will be inevitable, a new global culture will emerge, everything that means something in our various cultures will just disappear as nothing stands still in capitalism.

Its up to people to make the world they want. However, workers who expect the capitalsit to preserve jobs for them and to help their societies are in for a shock.

After I read capital (I was working as a tax lawyer at the time), I got an almighty scare and went into self employment. Have never looked back. I am still socialist but at least I have some life. My colleagues are working like dogs.
 Quoting: Marxist


Funny to think that Marx already called the Global govt, or NWO as it's popularly called these days (not sure why, its more Same Old World Order).I think I must have believed the capitalists along the way somewhere and largely written him off due to the 'debunking' of his economic theory.Have been coming back to Marx a bit more recently after revisiting Nietzche's Zarathustra. He's pretty sensitive to Marx, I think it's the anti-materialist ideals.I think I've still got a copy of Commy Manifesto kicking around somewhere too! What would you recommend as a good covering of the Hegelian style dialectic?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


Marx was not an economist. He was a social economist. He looked at the culture and said, if you place people in this culture, they are bound to do such and such. For example, outsource, or rort the markets or try to monopolise etc, etc. Workers will get shafted as its their labour that makes them valuable. When that gets too costly, they get the boot. Some will be bootlickers, sort of like capitalist groupies, hanging around for the crumbs.

Other cultures will see capitalism as symbolising civilisation so they will copy it...China, India, Japan. It will spread and become a global culture. Nothing is sacred, even the family will fall apart. People will become aliented with themselves, their families, their work colleagues and their societies. Common sense stuff. Of course, people now say stupid thinhgs like Marx was a capitalist. Thats cos they are confused.

Heres a link to dialecticism, hegelian and marxist:

[link to www.marxists.org]
 Quoting: Marxist


Marx was half right, which is why so many people buy into his bullshit...

Too much human in human nature for Marxist Communism to ever work...

Someone at the top will always be corrupt, someone at the bottom will always try to game the system, someone in the middle will always try to get ahead of the others...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Marxist

User ID: 8296504
New Zealand
03/28/2013 08:55 AM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
...


for me, the lack of growing and no labour rules in countries like China and India is the problem...
 Quoting: Luisport


Well I think it is this hybridized system of capitalism/communism/fascism that were using...I call it "Beastism"...

However I'm speaking more in political terms of socialism and it's role in government. The producers will only support the non-producer for so long...

Because you can never maintain a proper balance in the socialist system, eventually there are too damn many non-producers, and the producers revolt against the system.

I'm seriously considering going Galt myself...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


what is galf?
 Quoting: Luisport


Going Galt, from Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugs. Stop feeding the system, stop producing new wealth for the government to take and just live off of your accumulated wealth.....starve the bastards out.
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Socialised spending was a function of the Cold War. We will progressively move to minimal gobvernment as no capitalist likes to lose a dollar. This Rand woman was simply stating the obvious. She got a following as she helped articulate the frustrations of commerce at a time when unions risked unseating such institutions as the Feds. In other words, your suffering today is attributable to this woman...but of course, you persist in thinking that problems which are the result of deregulation like bank excesses, are the fault of socialists.

But you will learn.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Luisport (OP)

User ID: 37017409
Portugal
03/28/2013 08:56 AM

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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
...


for me, the lack of growing and no labour rules in countries like China and India is the problem...
 Quoting: Luisport


Well I think it is this hybridized system of capitalism/communism/fascism that were using...I call it "Beastism"...

However I'm speaking more in political terms of socialism and it's role in government. The producers will only support the non-producer for so long...

Because you can never maintain a proper balance in the socialist system, eventually there are too damn many non-producers, and the producers revolt against the system.

I'm seriously considering going Galt myself...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


what is galf?
 Quoting: Luisport


Going Galt, from Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugs. Stop feeding the system, stop producing new wealth for the government to take and just live off of your accumulated wealth.....starve the bastards out.
 Quoting: Saddletramp


WOW i just discover i'm a Galf!!! tounge
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36893697
United Kingdom
03/28/2013 08:56 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
People in Cyprus can't get access to their money, can't get paid, can't pay for fuck all, and yet the S7P makes a record all time high.

Whats wrong with this picture?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36893697


Same old Fed pump backed by media hype and computer algorithms. There's no volume in this market so no one is participating... That's not a market you are seeing, youre looking at a crime scene.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


It is criminal.
Banks are paying huge bonuses for making losses and crashing economies.
Yet not one person has ever been questioned, let alone tried or convicted for this, because the politicians are all friends of the CEOs who run these banks.
Its a fucking joke.
Rbs lost some 3 billion or 5 billion pounds LOST BILLIONS, yet manged to pay out over 1 BILLION in bonuses.
So how the fuck does that work?
Its fraud on a massive scale.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36893697


Barclays fined what? £137mil or something pathetic for fiddling the LIBOR rate to prop up Yen trades. They made billions whilst dicking around with the very rate homeowner mortgages are pinned to.They prbably paid more tax on their winnings than that pathetic fine. And the bloody London Whale fiasco - these guys aren't even good traders FFS!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


Whats makes that worse is if you deliberately lie on a mortgage form to try to obtain a mortgage you can actually go to prison for it.
Yet these guys defrauded the system for billions and nothing happens.
Marxist

User ID: 8296504
New Zealand
03/28/2013 09:00 AM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
...


Forget the rewriters. Marx is ther man. He merely said the following:

Capitalism will globalise taking all with it. It will be a race to the bottom as competition over maxmises. Workers can free themselves from wage labour servitude but they must organise. However, globalism will be inevitable, a new global culture will emerge, everything that means something in our various cultures will just disappear as nothing stands still in capitalism.

Its up to people to make the world they want. However, workers who expect the capitalsit to preserve jobs for them and to help their societies are in for a shock.

After I read capital (I was working as a tax lawyer at the time), I got an almighty scare and went into self employment. Have never looked back. I am still socialist but at least I have some life. My colleagues are working like dogs.
 Quoting: Marxist


Funny to think that Marx already called the Global govt, or NWO as it's popularly called these days (not sure why, its more Same Old World Order).I think I must have believed the capitalists along the way somewhere and largely written him off due to the 'debunking' of his economic theory.Have been coming back to Marx a bit more recently after revisiting Nietzche's Zarathustra. He's pretty sensitive to Marx, I think it's the anti-materialist ideals.I think I've still got a copy of Commy Manifesto kicking around somewhere too! What would you recommend as a good covering of the Hegelian style dialectic?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


Marx was not an economist. He was a social economist. He looked at the culture and said, if you place people in this culture, they are bound to do such and such. For example, outsource, or rort the markets or try to monopolise etc, etc. Workers will get shafted as its their labour that makes them valuable. When that gets too costly, they get the boot. Some will be bootlickers, sort of like capitalist groupies, hanging around for the crumbs.

Other cultures will see capitalism as symbolising civilisation so they will copy it...China, India, Japan. It will spread and become a global culture. Nothing is sacred, even the family will fall apart. People will become aliented with themselves, their families, their work colleagues and their societies. Common sense stuff. Of course, people now say stupid thinhgs like Marx was a capitalist. Thats cos they are confused.

Heres a link to dialecticism, hegelian and marxist:

[link to www.marxists.org]
 Quoting: Marxist


Marx was half right, which is why so many people buy into his bullshit...

Too much human in human nature for Marxist Communism to ever work...

Someone at the top will always be corrupt, someone at the bottom will always try to game the system, someone in the middle will always try to get ahead of the others...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Then why complain. Resign yourself to corrupt bankers and get on with life. No point squealing as its all human nature to rob and thieve.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Luisport (OP)

User ID: 37017409
Portugal
03/28/2013 09:00 AM

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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
zerohedge‏@zerohedge4 min
When Will Deposit Haircuts Take Place In Other European Countries? [link to www.zerohedge.com] …
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26302253
United Kingdom
03/28/2013 09:00 AM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
...


Well I think it is this hybridized system of capitalism/communism/fascism that were using...I call it "Beastism"...

However I'm speaking more in political terms of socialism and it's role in government. The producers will only support the non-producer for so long...

Because you can never maintain a proper balance in the socialist system, eventually there are too damn many non-producers, and the producers revolt against the system.

I'm seriously considering going Galt myself...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


what is galf?
 Quoting: Luisport


Going Galt, from Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugs. Stop feeding the system, stop producing new wealth for the government to take and just live off of your accumulated wealth.....starve the bastards out.
 Quoting: Saddletramp


WOW i just discover i'm a Galf!!! tounge
 Quoting: Luisport


Lol, Galt keeps popping up all over these days, no surprise really.Be careful with Rand though, shes a capatalist Zionist poster child.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26302253
United Kingdom
03/28/2013 09:02 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
...


Same old Fed pump backed by media hype and computer algorithms. There's no volume in this market so no one is participating... That's not a market you are seeing, youre looking at a crime scene.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


It is criminal.
Banks are paying huge bonuses for making losses and crashing economies.
Yet not one person has ever been questioned, let alone tried or convicted for this, because the politicians are all friends of the CEOs who run these banks.
Its a fucking joke.
Rbs lost some 3 billion or 5 billion pounds LOST BILLIONS, yet manged to pay out over 1 BILLION in bonuses.
So how the fuck does that work?
Its fraud on a massive scale.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36893697


Barclays fined what? £137mil or something pathetic for fiddling the LIBOR rate to prop up Yen trades. They made billions whilst dicking around with the very rate homeowner mortgages are pinned to.They prbably paid more tax on their winnings than that pathetic fine. And the bloody London Whale fiasco - these guys aren't even good traders FFS!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


Whats makes that worse is if you deliberately lie on a mortgage form to try to obtain a mortgage you can actually go to prison for it.
Yet these guys defrauded the system for billions and nothing happens.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36893697


Too Big To Jail!
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 1052341
United States
03/28/2013 09:02 AM

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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
...


Well I think it is this hybridized system of capitalism/communism/fascism that were using...I call it "Beastism"...

However I'm speaking more in political terms of socialism and it's role in government. The producers will only support the non-producer for so long...

Because you can never maintain a proper balance in the socialist system, eventually there are too damn many non-producers, and the producers revolt against the system.

I'm seriously considering going Galt myself...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


what is galf?
 Quoting: Luisport


Going Galt, from Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugs. Stop feeding the system, stop producing new wealth for the government to take and just live off of your accumulated wealth.....starve the bastards out.
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Socialised spending was a function of the Cold War. We will progressively move to minimal gobvernment as no capitalist likes to lose a dollar. This Rand woman was simply stating the obvious. She got a following as she helped articulate the frustrations of commerce at a time when unions risked unseating such institutions as the Feds. In other words, your suffering today is attributable to this woman...but of course, you persist in thinking that problems which are the result of deregulation like bank excesses, are the fault of socialists.

But you will learn.
 Quoting: Marxist


As will you, it's not the pendulum of big/little government of which I speak, it's the point we are at in the greater cycle of economics/debt/population/energy/food production...

There will be wholesale changes soon, little revisions will no longer suffice on the downsides of these cycles. The only questions will be, who will be making these wholesale changes when the time comes...

Capitalism/Socialism/Marxism/Communism...they're all just descriptions of humanity. What it really boils down to is, are you a producer of usable goods or ingenuity, or are you a non-producer...

Non-producers will not survive the downsides of these cycles...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Marxist

User ID: 8296504
New Zealand
03/28/2013 09:03 AM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
...


Well I think it is this hybridized system of capitalism/communism/fascism that were using...I call it "Beastism"...

However I'm speaking more in political terms of socialism and it's role in government. The producers will only support the non-producer for so long...

Because you can never maintain a proper balance in the socialist system, eventually there are too damn many non-producers, and the producers revolt against the system.

I'm seriously considering going Galt myself...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


what is galf?
 Quoting: Luisport


Going Galt, from Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugs. Stop feeding the system, stop producing new wealth for the government to take and just live off of your accumulated wealth.....starve the bastards out.
 Quoting: Saddletramp


WOW i just discover i'm a Galf!!! tounge
 Quoting: Luisport


He says its human nature then calls them bastards. One very confused fullah here, as we say in Noo Zeeland.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 1052341
United States
03/28/2013 09:05 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
...


Funny to think that Marx already called the Global govt, or NWO as it's popularly called these days (not sure why, its more Same Old World Order).I think I must have believed the capitalists along the way somewhere and largely written him off due to the 'debunking' of his economic theory.Have been coming back to Marx a bit more recently after revisiting Nietzche's Zarathustra. He's pretty sensitive to Marx, I think it's the anti-materialist ideals.I think I've still got a copy of Commy Manifesto kicking around somewhere too! What would you recommend as a good covering of the Hegelian style dialectic?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


Marx was not an economist. He was a social economist. He looked at the culture and said, if you place people in this culture, they are bound to do such and such. For example, outsource, or rort the markets or try to monopolise etc, etc. Workers will get shafted as its their labour that makes them valuable. When that gets too costly, they get the boot. Some will be bootlickers, sort of like capitalist groupies, hanging around for the crumbs.

Other cultures will see capitalism as symbolising civilisation so they will copy it...China, India, Japan. It will spread and become a global culture. Nothing is sacred, even the family will fall apart. People will become aliented with themselves, their families, their work colleagues and their societies. Common sense stuff. Of course, people now say stupid thinhgs like Marx was a capitalist. Thats cos they are confused.

Heres a link to dialecticism, hegelian and marxist:

[link to www.marxists.org]
 Quoting: Marxist


Marx was half right, which is why so many people buy into his bullshit...

Too much human in human nature for Marxist Communism to ever work...

Someone at the top will always be corrupt, someone at the bottom will always try to game the system, someone in the middle will always try to get ahead of the others...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Then why complain. Resign yourself to corrupt bankers and get on with life. No point squealing as its all human nature to rob and thieve.
 Quoting: Marxist


Well there are systems of commerce that address "human nature" in all it's realities...we're just too human to leave them the fuck alone...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26302253
United Kingdom
03/28/2013 09:06 AM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
...


As so often, many are left with the feeling of 'capitalism is this' 'socialism is that' having never actually seen the pure ideology in practice.Instead we always end up with some mutant cronyism with a left or right bias.Do we think that this is the world that an Engles or Smith or Keyenes dreamed up? Did they write great tracts on embezzlement and profiteering? Nope!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


Forget the rewriters. Marx is ther man. He merely said the following:

Capitalism will globalise taking all with it. It will be a race to the bottom as competition over maxmises. Workers can free themselves from wage labour servitude but they must organise. However, globalism will be inevitable, a new global culture will emerge, everything that means something in our various cultures will just disappear as nothing stands still in capitalism.

Its up to people to make the world they want. However, workers who expect the capitalsit to preserve jobs for them and to help their societies are in for a shock.

After I read capital (I was working as a tax lawyer at the time), I got an almighty scare and went into self employment. Have never looked back. I am still socialist but at least I have some life. My colleagues are working like dogs.
 Quoting: Marxist


Funny to think that Marx already called the Global govt, or NWO as it's popularly called these days (not sure why, its more Same Old World Order).I think I must have believed the capitalists along the way somewhere and largely written him off due to the 'debunking' of his economic theory.Have been coming back to Marx a bit more recently after revisiting Nietzche's Zarathustra. He's pretty sensitive to Marx, I think it's the anti-materialist ideals.I think I've still got a copy of Commy Manifesto kicking around somewhere too! What would you recommend as a good covering of the Hegelian style dialectic?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


Marx was not an economist. He was a social economist. He looked at the culture and said, if you place people in this culture, they are bound to do such and such. For example, outsource, or rort the markets or try to monopolise etc, etc. Workers will get shafted as its their labour that makes them valuable. When that gets too costly, they get the boot. Some will be bootlickers, sort of like capitalist groupies, hanging around for the crumbs.

Other cultures will see capitalism as symbolising civilisation so they will copy it...China, India, Japan. It will spread and become a global culture. Nothing is sacred, even the family will fall apart. People will become aliented with themselves, their families, their work colleagues and their societies. Common sense stuff. Of course, people now say stupid thinhgs like Marx was a capitalist. Thats cos they are confused.

Heres a link to dialecticism, hegelian and marxist:

[link to www.marxists.org]
 Quoting: Marxist


Thanks! It's a pity, as someone just pointed out, that we lack the caring social maturity and honesty to really forment a clear vision into a working system.There's always some greedy swine with his nose in the trough somewhere.
Marxist

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03/28/2013 09:07 AM
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what is galf?
 Quoting: Luisport


Going Galt, from Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugs. Stop feeding the system, stop producing new wealth for the government to take and just live off of your accumulated wealth.....starve the bastards out.
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Socialised spending was a function of the Cold War. We will progressively move to minimal gobvernment as no capitalist likes to lose a dollar. This Rand woman was simply stating the obvious. She got a following as she helped articulate the frustrations of commerce at a time when unions risked unseating such institutions as the Feds. In other words, your suffering today is attributable to this woman...but of course, you persist in thinking that problems which are the result of deregulation like bank excesses, are the fault of socialists.

But you will learn.
 Quoting: Marxist


As will you, it's not the pendulum of big/little government of which I speak, it's the point we are at in the greater cycle of economics/debt/population/energy/food production...

There will be wholesale changes soon, little revisions will no longer suffice on the downsides of these cycles. The only questions will be, who will be making these wholesale changes when the time comes...

Capitalism/Socialism/Marxism/Communism...they're all just descriptions of humanity. What it really boils down to is, are you a producer of usable goods or ingenuity, or are you a non-producer...

Non-producers will not survive the downsides of these cycles...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Yes, but as you say, its human nature so they will be back with BAU. Theres no hope of any change cos its just goes round and round. If I were you with those ideas, I would see no point waiting for change as change never comes in your world. Human nature!!!
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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03/28/2013 09:08 AM

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what is galf?
 Quoting: Luisport


Going Galt, from Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugs. Stop feeding the system, stop producing new wealth for the government to take and just live off of your accumulated wealth.....starve the bastards out.
 Quoting: Saddletramp


WOW i just discover i'm a Galf!!! tounge
 Quoting: Luisport


He says its human nature then calls them bastards. One very confused fullah here, as we say in Noo Zeeland.
 Quoting: Marxist


Not confused...realistic. The only way to realistically shrink government intrusion and corruption, is to shrink government. And the only way to shrink government is to starve the beast...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Marxist

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03/28/2013 09:09 AM
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Marx was not an economist. He was a social economist. He looked at the culture and said, if you place people in this culture, they are bound to do such and such. For example, outsource, or rort the markets or try to monopolise etc, etc. Workers will get shafted as its their labour that makes them valuable. When that gets too costly, they get the boot. Some will be bootlickers, sort of like capitalist groupies, hanging around for the crumbs.

Other cultures will see capitalism as symbolising civilisation so they will copy it...China, India, Japan. It will spread and become a global culture. Nothing is sacred, even the family will fall apart. People will become aliented with themselves, their families, their work colleagues and their societies. Common sense stuff. Of course, people now say stupid thinhgs like Marx was a capitalist. Thats cos they are confused.

Heres a link to dialecticism, hegelian and marxist:

[link to www.marxists.org]
 Quoting: Marxist


Marx was half right, which is why so many people buy into his bullshit...

Too much human in human nature for Marxist Communism to ever work...

Someone at the top will always be corrupt, someone at the bottom will always try to game the system, someone in the middle will always try to get ahead of the others...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Then why complain. Resign yourself to corrupt bankers and get on with life. No point squealing as its all human nature to rob and thieve.
 Quoting: Marxist


Well there are systems of commerce that address "human nature" in all it's realities...we're just too human to leave them the fuck alone...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Youre just talking bollix mate. Human nature is human nature, left alone or with company.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Marxist

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03/28/2013 09:11 AM
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Going Galt, from Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugs. Stop feeding the system, stop producing new wealth for the government to take and just live off of your accumulated wealth.....starve the bastards out.
 Quoting: Saddletramp


WOW i just discover i'm a Galf!!! tounge
 Quoting: Luisport


He says its human nature then calls them bastards. One very confused fullah here, as we say in Noo Zeeland.
 Quoting: Marxist


Not confused...realistic. The only way to realistically shrink government intrusion and corruption, is to shrink government. And the only way to shrink government is to starve the beast...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Yeah mate. get rid of the rules and let human nature free. Hahaha. I actually hope this happens cos nongs like you need a sharp lesson.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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03/28/2013 09:18 AM

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what is galf?
 Quoting: Luisport


Going Galt, from Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugs. Stop feeding the system, stop producing new wealth for the government to take and just live off of your accumulated wealth.....starve the bastards out.
 Quoting: Saddletramp


WOW i just discover i'm a Galf!!! tounge
 Quoting: Luisport


Lol, Galt keeps popping up all over these days, no surprise really.Be careful with Rand though, shes a capatalist Zionist poster child.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26302253


I'm no Rand worshiper...not by any stretch, but I do think she was on to something in Atlas Shrugs, even if it's not entirely correct.

Saul Alinsky thought that the overload of the system would come from the non-producer class, then when the Socialist handouts were stopped because of corruption and bankruptcy, the non-producer class would revolt against the system out of sheer starvation.

Rand thought the producer class would eventually overload the system by stopping production, that they inevitably would be the ones who controlled the outcome of the overload because they were the ones with the power of production and idea's needed to make the beast system operate...

I think they are both right in a sense because both sides are causing the collapse to materialize at this point, it's the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object. But realistically, the producer class will always make the rules, the system simply cannot function without them. Non-producers will find they are extremely expendable in this conflict of ideals. And when the cycles turn downward these "useful idiots" will simply die off.

There is no other possible outcome in the larger sense. The only question remains what sort of economic system will be in place, and what governmental systems will dominate...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Luisport (OP)

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03/28/2013 09:23 AM

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zerohedge‏@zerohedge32 s
Europe's max pain zone for bad debt as a % of total assets is between 20% and 30% before deposit impairments begin
Saddletramp
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03/28/2013 09:24 AM

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WOW i just discover i'm a Galf!!! tounge
 Quoting: Luisport


He says its human nature then calls them bastards. One very confused fullah here, as we say in Noo Zeeland.
 Quoting: Marxist


Not confused...realistic. The only way to realistically shrink government intrusion and corruption, is to shrink government. And the only way to shrink government is to starve the beast...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Yeah mate. get rid of the rules and let human nature free. Hahaha. I actually hope this happens cos nongs like you need a sharp lesson.
 Quoting: Marxist


Governments will collapse from their own weight and corruption, it's already happening...the non-producers will find out how expendable they are very soon...

In fact many of them are lining up at the banks in Cyprus today, wondering what the fuck just happened to them...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 03/28/2013 09:25 AM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Luisport (OP)

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03/28/2013 09:24 AM

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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Faisal Islam‏@faisalislam16 min
Experiment: withdrew €20 from Bank of Cyprus ATM replenished with cash dump. Serial number M, for C Bank of Portugal [link to twitter.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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Norway
03/28/2013 09:27 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Marxist, I like your way of thinking! As for EU, I think in a mean time it will become ugly. There are rich people and believe me they dont want to lose their power (place under the sun),with the help of banks and governments and of cause layers they will build a system where their be simply financial slavery.Just enough to live, you can spare money but it will not be much because it will be taxated. You gonna work hard,so hard that at the end of the week you dont want to think anymore, just grab some beer watching television relaxing. You will work to pay your house,gas,electricity, insurance, pension, taxes to support those who are unemployed, to make the system work. Nobody wants educated population, the less people know or understand the easier to control them. Dont say to me Its not a conspiracy, its just an observation of the reality what already happening now. But not everybody see it, thats sometimes it feels like you get insane.
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2013 09:30 AM
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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Published December 2010
Sovereign Debt HOAX: THE BIG LIE v the simple TRUTH: PORTUGAL or GREECE are TODAY richer than GERMANY

The "sovereign debt" HOAX
The illuminati (1) in overtime must resort to robbing Greek and Portuguese (as at this time in a smaller scale Italian, Spanish, Irish & Co) assets while they have the illuminati agents "ruling" those "countries" call it "sovereign debt".

Germany v Portugal
Germany has no oil. It once had coal, now it has sinkholes.
The climate does not allow for anything to grow, even in heated greenhouses, four months a year.
Germany maritime zone is 54,000 km2, emptied of fish and so polluted that the general surgeon warns against eating german fish more than once a week.
The portuguese maritime zone is 994,000 km2.
Portugal has the mildest climate of Europe. For a start, 3 out of 5 households in Portugal need neither heating nor air conditioned.
The largest winter area in the EU for producing vegetables is no more the 200 km2 plastic greenhouses of Almeria, Spain, a semiarid area where the ground water is coming to man end, but Odemira in Portugal.
Since 2011 Portugal is the top producer of renewable energies in the EU.

Germany v Greece
Let's start by this: Greece has 32,000 km coast, prime oceanfront real estate.
Germany has a few hundred kilometers rapidly eroding coast (Sylt & Co), a coast with a climate without summer (July mean temperature below 20 C).

Germany - the dying industry
As for industry, let us first remember LAST PROPHET's words from 2009: "Germany produces essentially what was first affected by systemic crash, that took already place in 2007, as oil peaked at $150". (2)

Most of the previously mentioned facts are easily verifiable, a few although more difficult are also verifiable.
Yet in the mass media, totally controlled by the illuminati, you did not hear anything about it, like you did not hear anything about any of 911 5 basic facts. (3)


Notes
(1) who are the illuminati blogspot
[link to www.google.com] [link to who-are-the-illuminati.blogspot.com]
 Quoting: THE SIMPLE TRUTH 34795566


Take a look here :

[link to www.businessinsider.com]
Luisport (OP)

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Portugal
03/28/2013 09:33 AM

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PM of Portugal is preparing to renounce [link to sicnoticias.sapo.pt]
Luisport (OP)

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Portugal
03/28/2013 09:45 AM

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Re: PORTUGAL Government prepares second bailout!!! Government ponders paying holiday bonuses with titles treasure!!!
Cyprus Market‏@russian_market2 min
MONTE PASCHI 4Q NET LOSS EU1.59B
Luisport (OP)

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Portugal
03/28/2013 09:46 AM

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Cyprus Market‏@russian_market10 s
MONTE PASCHI HAS CLOSED 200 BRANCHES, HALF OF 2015 TARGET

Cyprus Market‏@russian_market52 s
MONTE PASCHI BEFORE EASTER (IT: PASQUA) IN EVERY PORTFOLIO

Cyprus Market‏@russian_market1 min
MONTE PASCHI 2012 NET LOSS EU3.17B; ANALYST EST EU2.29B

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