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Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7961756
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04/10/2013 01:34 PM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
States are now rushing to push bills through allowing for gold and silver to be recognized as legal tender as politicians fear that the U.S. economy is going to collapse.

The push from states like Arizona, which passed through their House of Representatives on Monday allowing gold and silver to be considered legal tender, comes as conservatives fear that the Federal Reserve is running the country's economy into a deep hole.

Lawmakers say the global economy is on the precipice of financial ruin and the U.S. dollar could soon be worth less than the paper used to make it.
These doomsayers are pushing forward legislation that would declare privately minted gold and silver coins legal tender, no different under state law than the U.S. dollar printed by the federal Department of Treasury [link to www.dailymail.co.uk] :gold:
 Quoting: JUST HERE



There is the little problem of the constitutionality of this idea as well as a lot of very important practical issues that arise when you let private parties mint coins. Purity and weight as well as counterfeiting to name three.

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To:

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;


However there is a loophole that the states might exploit:

Section. 10.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
Anonymous Coward
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04/10/2013 01:48 PM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
States are now rushing to push bills through allowing for gold and silver to be recognized as legal tender as politicians fear that the U.S. economy is going to collapse.

The push from states like Arizona, which passed through their House of Representatives on Monday allowing gold and silver to be considered legal tender, comes as conservatives fear that the Federal Reserve is running the country's economy into a deep hole.

Lawmakers say the global economy is on the precipice of financial ruin and the U.S. dollar could soon be worth less than the paper used to make it.
These doomsayers are pushing forward legislation that would declare privately minted gold and silver coins legal tender, no different under state law than the U.S. dollar printed by the federal Department of Treasury [link to www.dailymail.co.uk] :gold:
 Quoting: JUST HERE



There is the little problem of the constitutionality of this idea as well as a lot of very important practical issues that arise when you let private parties mint coins. Purity and weight as well as counterfeiting to name three.

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To:

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;


However there is a loophole that the states might exploit:

Section. 10.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7961756


If congress fails to do their duty amendment 10 comes directly into play ..

We retain the power still to coin money for we gave it to the states, and then federal government ...

If one fails in their place of trust, we retain those rights
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4220340
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04/10/2013 02:23 PM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
States are now rushing to push bills through allowing for gold and silver to be recognized as legal tender as politicians fear that the U.S. economy is going to collapse.

The push from states like Arizona, which passed through their House of Representatives on Monday allowing gold and silver to be considered legal tender, comes as conservatives fear that the Federal Reserve is running the country's economy into a deep hole.

Lawmakers say the global economy is on the precipice of financial ruin and the U.S. dollar could soon be worth less than the paper used to make it.
These doomsayers are pushing forward legislation that would declare privately minted gold and silver coins legal tender, no different under state law than the U.S. dollar printed by the federal Department of Treasury [link to www.dailymail.co.uk] :gold:
 Quoting: JUST HERE



There is the little problem of the constitutionality of this idea as well as a lot of very important practical issues that arise when you let private parties mint coins. Purity and weight as well as counterfeiting to name three.

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To:

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;


However there is a loophole that the states might exploit:

Section. 10.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7961756


If congress fails to do their duty amendment 10 comes directly into play ..

We retain the power still to coin money for we gave it to the states, and then federal government ...

If one fails in their place of trust, we retain those rights
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36842606


States are now rushing to push bills through allowing for gold and silver to be recognized as legal tender as politicians fear that the U.S. economy is going to collapse.

The push from states like Arizona, which passed through their House of Representatives on Monday allowing gold and silver to be considered legal tender, comes as conservatives fear that the Federal Reserve is running the country's economy into a deep hole.

Lawmakers say the global economy is on the precipice of financial ruin and the U.S. dollar could soon be worth less than the paper used to make it.
These doomsayers are pushing forward legislation that would declare privately minted gold and silver coins legal tender, no different under state law than the U.S. dollar printed by the federal Department of Treasury [link to www.dailymail.co.uk] :gold:
 Quoting: JUST HERE



There is the little problem of the constitutionality of this idea as well as a lot of very important practical issues that arise when you let private parties mint coins. Purity and weight as well as counterfeiting to name three.

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To:

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;


However there is a loophole that the states might exploit:

Section. 10.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7961756


If congress fails to do their duty amendment 10 comes directly into play ..

We retain the power still to coin money for we gave it to the states, and then federal government ...

If one fails in their place of trust, we retain those rights
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36842606

Tell that to the man who made the Liberty Dollar and is now in federal prison for creating a competing currency. The Constitution does not apply in DC and its states and territories.

Also, anything legal can be legal tender, these statues are stupid and do nothing but benefit the STATE.
fnord
User ID: 19893213
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04/10/2013 03:05 PM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
Legal tender means it can be taxed simply for existing in a box. Legal tender means it in essence already belongs to the gummint

Anyone that thought this was a good idea, just got OWNED.

Your barbecue isnt legal tender, you own it and need not account for it to anyone.
Legal tender comes with the assumption that it belongs to the gummint.
Ignore their dictates now, and you are a felon.


What America needs is some adults with a pair.
There are none, at least not ones working for your nation
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1445809


bsflagbsflag
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27972246
United States
04/10/2013 03:08 PM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
YOu people, most of you, are totally out to lunch.

It is not at all against the law to Tender to pay in gold or silver, or wheat or paper..

So many of you have no understanding at all, not even these Airzona legislatures bothered to even check the current laws.

Legal Tender means you cannot be arrested for using it to offer to pay a debt. It don't not mean the seller has to accept your form of payment.

Cocaine coins are Not Legal Tender. Neither are Herion Coins.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19980561
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04/10/2013 03:12 PM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
The citizens of Az now have a 'safety net' They wont be stuck with a bunch of worthless paper notes.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27972246
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04/10/2013 03:20 PM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
States are now rushing to push bills through allowing for gold and silver to be recognized as legal tender as politicians fear that the U.S. economy is going to collapse.

The push from states like Arizona, which passed through their House of Representatives on Monday allowing gold and silver to be considered legal tender, comes as conservatives fear that the Federal Reserve is running the country's economy into a deep hole.

Lawmakers say the global economy is on the precipice of financial ruin and the U.S. dollar could soon be worth less than the paper used to make it.
These doomsayers are pushing forward legislation that would declare privately minted gold and silver coins legal tender, no different under state law than the U.S. dollar printed by the federal Department of Treasury [link to www.dailymail.co.uk] :gold:
 Quoting: JUST HERE



There is the little problem of the constitutionality of this idea as well as a lot of very important practical issues that arise when you let private parties mint coins. Purity and weight as well as counterfeiting to name three.

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To:

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;


However there is a loophole that the states might exploit:

Section. 10.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7961756


If congress fails to do their duty amendment 10 comes directly into play ..

We retain the power still to coin money for we gave it to the states, and then federal government ...

If one fails in their place of trust, we retain those rights
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36842606


How clear does Section 10 have to be. No State shall coin Money. There is no exclusion clause anywhere in the entire Constitution (of course teh Amendments are included in the Constitution).

States are PROHIBITED by the U.S. Constitution to coin Money, hence the 10th does not grant or even prescribe that the State be allowed to coin Money.

On the other hand, Section 10 does not Prohibit, the People from coining Money, does it? No, it does not prohibit the People from coining Money.

Yet, the Peoples coinage is not to be as if a countefeit of the COngressiaonlly mandated coin. This was the issue about the so called Liberty Dollar... it was just too close and was deemed could be deceptive... as if presenting what it was not.. a U.S. Mint coin.

According to the U.S. Treasaury and the U.S. Mint, gold and silver are already Legal Tender...
Period.

These State Legislators are ignorant of the Law.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4220340
United States
04/10/2013 03:37 PM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
States are now rushing to push bills through allowing for gold and silver to be recognized as legal tender as politicians fear that the U.S. economy is going to collapse.

The push from states like Arizona, which passed through their House of Representatives on Monday allowing gold and silver to be considered legal tender, comes as conservatives fear that the Federal Reserve is running the country's economy into a deep hole.

Lawmakers say the global economy is on the precipice of financial ruin and the U.S. dollar could soon be worth less than the paper used to make it.
These doomsayers are pushing forward legislation that would declare privately minted gold and silver coins legal tender, no different under state law than the U.S. dollar printed by the federal Department of Treasury [link to www.dailymail.co.uk] :gold:
 Quoting: JUST HERE



There is the little problem of the constitutionality of this idea as well as a lot of very important practical issues that arise when you let private parties mint coins. Purity and weight as well as counterfeiting to name three.

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To:

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;


However there is a loophole that the states might exploit:

Section. 10.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7961756


If congress fails to do their duty amendment 10 comes directly into play ..

We retain the power still to coin money for we gave it to the states, and then federal government ...

If one fails in their place of trust, we retain those rights
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36842606


How clear does Section 10 have to be. No State shall coin Money. There is no exclusion clause anywhere in the entire Constitution (of course teh Amendments are included in the Constitution).

States are PROHIBITED by the U.S. Constitution to coin Money, hence the 10th does not grant or even prescribe that the State be allowed to coin Money.

On the other hand, Section 10 does not Prohibit, the People from coining Money, does it? No, it does not prohibit the People from coining Money.

Yet, the Peoples coinage is not to be as if a countefeit of the COngressiaonlly mandated coin. This was the issue about the so called Liberty Dollar... it was just too close and was deemed could be deceptive... as if presenting what it was not.. a U.S. Mint coin.

According to the U.S. Treasaury and the U.S. Mint, gold and silver are already Legal Tender...
Period.

These State Legislators are ignorant of the Law.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27972246

Too bad the people are not nor ever have been US Citzens, kinda blows your whole post.

US Citizens are a subclass to the "people" and have been since the 14th amendment.
MarkinAZ

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04/10/2013 03:39 PM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
THANK YOU WHOEVER posted the "Blithering Idiot" quote below! You are so right. If gold or silver become legal tender then conceivably you could walk into the grocery store, gas station, or even government offices and banks and proffer your silver or gold coins, jewelry, etc., and these financial entities would by law have to accept your gold / silver as legal tender just as if you'd paid with cash or credit card!

There is OPPORTUNITY HERE!! Watch for "mobile exchange" shops to be set up. You give them your tea service that is worth $5000 in it's silver content, they give you a debit card worth $5000. (or a little less) and profit and pocket the difference. "Sterling" pure silver for decorative objects, flatware, tea services, etc., is .925 PURE silver and 7.25 percent alloys to make it harder and easier to work with. So if your tea service weighs in at 100 ounces, you would get paid for 92.5 ounces for the silver value. You can expect a discount over/above the one for silver value if the object is not rare or very ornate or very old. (In that case it may well be worth far more than the silver value. Don't sell the family silver without having it valued by a pro. At least know what you really are selling and what it is worth - just silver value or gold value or something FAR BEYOND?




What this means is that any increase in value is taxed as a capital gain even if it's buried in your garden.

This is the reason why the ptb need to exterminate you all, youve proven you cant think for yourself, and they dont want the responsibility to care for you after theyve taken everything from you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1445809


Can't say I have ever read anything so quite to the point. You seem to have nailed it.
 Quoting: Vision Thing


Blithering idiot.

Legal tender is a medium of payment allowed by law or recognized by a legal system to be valid for meeting a financial obligation.[1] Paper currency and coins are common forms of legal tender in many countries. The origin of the term "legal tender" is from Middle English tendren, French tendre (verb form), meaning to offer. The Latin root is tendere (to stretch out), and the sense of tender as an offer is related to the etymology of the English word extend (to hold outward).[2] The noun form of a tender as an offering is a back-formation of the noun from the verb.

Legal tender is variously defined in different jurisdictions. Formally, it is anything which when offered in payment extinguishes the debt. Thus, personal cheques, credit cards, debit cards, and similar non-cash methods of payment are not usually legal tender. The law does not relieve the debt obligation until payment is accepted. Coins and banknotes are usually defined as legal tender.


.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1030397
Anonymous Coward
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04/10/2013 03:43 PM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
I really don't know why the phrase "Legal tender" makes me giggle so much but jeeze the title name cracked me up cruise
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27972246
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04/10/2013 03:49 PM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
Too bad the people are not nor ever have been US Citzens, kinda blows your whole post.

US Citizens are a subclass to the "people" and have been since the 14th amendment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4220340


Exactly, its a real mind game.

We The People created the U.S. Constitution and the U.S. Government, but We the People are the Mighty Ones and our servant the Government is also made up mainly by our fellow We The People.

Then We the People created ourselves to become U.S. Citizens.. and yet at the time we were also State Citizens, as the "We the People" of a State were also the Mighty Ones of that State. And under that hat, those "We the People" of the State of... then created themselves teh Title of State Citizens...

So at that people We The People had Created and made ourselves a second Title of Citizenship, one Federal and the other State Citizens.

Then along came time, and the 14th Amendment We The People of the United States (all the States of the time) decided it would be a good idea to just create ourselves as United State's Citizens, and only residents (aka Subjects) of any State we might happen to be dwelling in or evne traveling over.

So, we went from predominationly Soverigns as We The People of the State to Title ourselves, State Citizens and not State Subjects.

ANd then with the 14th we created for ourselves the Title United States Citizens and at the same time crated ourselves SUBJECTS of the State we lived in..

Marvelous, eh?

And The States are under teh obigation to Pay their debts only with gold or silver coin... so then the State leans on its SUBJECTS of the State of ____ to cough up their gold and silver coins and/or hard stuff, goods, to sell for other nation's or another States's gold and silver in exchange.

ITs are real piece of Spagettii Code..

And on linguistics ground an extreme example of Neural Linguistics Programming and mind-control.
Anonymous Coward
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04/10/2013 03:53 PM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
I really don't know why the phrase "Legal tender" makes me giggle so much but jeeze the title name cracked me up cruise
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20939890


It means being Legal to offer to Touch another having been given their premission... strangley it is similar to the concepts of the Nudity Laws under the Law of Moses.. who can make another nude...
No More Lies

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04/10/2013 03:54 PM

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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
colorbump25acolorbump2

Last Edited by No More Lies on 04/10/2013 03:54 PM
Thanks to whomever upgraded my account!
:nml:
Anonymous Coward
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04/10/2013 04:02 PM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
THANK YOU WHOEVER posted the "Blithering Idiot" quote below! You are so right. If gold or silver become legal tender then conceivably you could walk into the grocery store, gas station, or even government offices and banks and proffer your silver or gold coins, jewelry, etc., and these financial entities would by law have to accept your gold / silver as legal tender just as if you'd paid with cash or credit card!
 Quoting: MarkinAZ


No, this is not the Legal meaning of that term, Legal Tender.

Legal Tender means that it is not Legal for me to offer to pay you in 'this' substance.

If I Tender Cocaine to you in payment of a debt I have owed you, then under current law my Tender is Illegal... because the possession of Cocaine is outlawed. ALthough you the seller could accept it, you too then would be a criminal for accepting it. Hence in that case both the buyer and the seller will have commited a crime or crimes, one of which is an Illegal Tender.

Since at the moment possessioin gold is not illegal and neither is buying or selling gold illegal, it is not illegal to tender Gold or Silver in payment for a debt.

In fact if I offer Illegal Tender to you for payment of a purchase or debt you have every legal right to charge me at court with a crime and warrant for my arrest.

People understood this stuff very well before the Great Gold Tax of 1933.. not so much any more, in fact now the masses have it bass-awkward.
Anonymous Coward
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04/10/2013 04:07 PM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
THANK YOU WHOEVER posted the "Blithering Idiot" quote below! You are so right. If gold or silver become legal tender then conceivably you could walk into the grocery store, gas station, or even government offices and banks and proffer your silver or gold coins, jewelry, etc., and these financial entities would by law have to accept your gold / silver as legal tender just as if you'd paid with cash or credit card!
 Quoting: MarkinAZ


No, this is not the Legal meaning of that term, Legal Tender.

Legal Tender means that it is not Legal for me to offer to pay you in 'this' substance.

If I Tender Cocaine to you in payment of a debt I have owed you, then under current law my Tender is Illegal... because the possession of Cocaine is outlawed. ALthough you the seller could accept it, you too then would be a criminal for accepting it. Hence in that case both the buyer and the seller will have commited a crime or crimes, one of which is an Illegal Tender.

Since at the moment possessioin gold is not illegal and neither is buying or selling gold illegal, it is not illegal to tender Gold or Silver in payment for a debt.

In fact if I offer Illegal Tender to you for payment of a purchase or debt you have every legal right to charge me at court with a crime and warrant for my arrest.

People understood this stuff very well before the Great Gold Tax of 1933.. not so much any more, in fact now the masses have it bass-awkward.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27972246


I didn't put that worth a crap.. but maybe you can see through the smoke.
Hard Eight

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04/16/2013 10:56 AM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
Arizona Becomes Second State to Approve Gold and Silver as Legal Tender

[link to finance.yahoo.com]
Texas has yet to learn submission to any oppression, come from what source it may.
Sam Houston

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
Thomas Jefferson
Hard Eight

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04/16/2013 10:58 AM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
“People are still buying gold and using it as a commodity and I think they want to use it as actual legal tender instead of the dollar."
Texas has yet to learn submission to any oppression, come from what source it may.
Sam Houston

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
Thomas Jefferson
VarianceX77

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04/16/2013 11:22 AM
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Re: Arizona passes law making gold and silver legal tender
The last time someone tried doing that own their own the Fed busted them.

I'm proud of Arizona. You would have thought Texas would be leading the movement against The Fed. LOL
VarianceX77

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