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Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!

 
MaxMad
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04/23/2013 09:01 AM

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Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
Right now there is price manipulation happening in virtually all markets!! Stocks, bonds, commodities, etc. There is a very big unintended consequence of the artificial suppression of commodity prices that I want you to think about. We all now are seeing how the price of gold and silver on the comex is no where near what costs to acquire the physical. That is because the premium (or the markup from the spot price). I believe this is happening in most commodity markets to try and hide TRUE inflation. The problem is we will see a greater discrepincy between the spot price and the actual price. Think about gas??? In 2007ish the price of a barrel was about the same as it is today, yet we were only paying $1.50ish then for a gallon of gas. Today, They have manipulated the price of oil to "artificial" price however the "actual" price to us is virtually double!!!!! This is very similar in many commodities...

Here is the big problem, my belief is that before we see the huge price spikes in commodities we will first see SHORTAGES!!!! This is a direct result of the manipulation!!! What we are seeing in the precious metals today with a decoupling between the spot price and "actual" price will hit other commodities as well! IMHO!!!
MaxMad (OP)

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United States
04/23/2013 09:02 AM

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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
Right now there is price manipulation happening in virtually all markets!! Stocks, bonds, commodities, etc. There is a very big unintended consequence of the artificial suppression of commodity prices that I want you to think about. We all now are seeing how the price of gold and silver on the comex is no where near what costs to acquire the physical. That is because the premium (or the markup from the spot price). I believe this is happening in most commodity markets to try and hide TRUE inflation. The problem is we will see a greater discrepincy between the spot price and the actual price. Think about gas??? In 2007ish the price of a barrel was about the same as it is today, yet we were only paying $1.50ish then for a gallon of gas. Today, They have manipulated the price of oil to "artificial" price however the "actual" price to us is virtually double!!!!! This is very similar in many commodities...

Here is the big problem, my belief is that before we see the huge price spikes in commodities we will first see SHORTAGES!!!! This is a direct result of the manipulation!!! What we are seeing in the precious metals today with a decoupling between the spot price and "actual" price will hit other commodities as well! IMHO!!!
 Quoting: MaxMad


Eventually price spikes will be out of control, but I think first we will see shortages!!
MaxMad (OP)

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United States
04/23/2013 09:05 AM

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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
Right now there is price manipulation happening in virtually all markets!! Stocks, bonds, commodities, etc. There is a very big unintended consequence of the artificial suppression of commodity prices that I want you to think about. We all now are seeing how the price of gold and silver on the comex is no where near what costs to acquire the physical. That is because the premium (or the markup from the spot price). I believe this is happening in most commodity markets to try and hide TRUE inflation. The problem is we will see a greater discrepincy between the spot price and the actual price. Think about gas??? In 2007ish the price of a barrel was about the same as it is today, yet we were only paying $1.50ish then for a gallon of gas. Today, They have manipulated the price of oil to "artificial" price however the "actual" price to us is virtually double!!!!! This is very similar in many commodities...

Here is the big problem, my belief is that before we see the huge price spikes in commodities we will first see SHORTAGES!!!! This is a direct result of the manipulation!!! What we are seeing in the precious metals today with a decoupling between the spot price and "actual" price will hit other commodities as well! IMHO!!!
 Quoting: MaxMad


Price controls tend to lead to shortages!
MaxMad (OP)

User ID: 13864401
United States
04/23/2013 09:11 AM

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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
Right now there is price manipulation happening in virtually all markets!! Stocks, bonds, commodities, etc. There is a very big unintended consequence of the artificial suppression of commodity prices that I want you to think about. We all now are seeing how the price of gold and silver on the comex is no where near what costs to acquire the physical. That is because the premium (or the markup from the spot price). I believe this is happening in most commodity markets to try and hide TRUE inflation. The problem is we will see a greater discrepincy between the spot price and the actual price. Think about gas??? In 2007ish the price of a barrel was about the same as it is today, yet we were only paying $1.50ish then for a gallon of gas. Today, They have manipulated the price of oil to "artificial" price however the "actual" price to us is virtually double!!!!! This is very similar in many commodities...

Here is the big problem, my belief is that before we see the huge price spikes in commodities we will first see SHORTAGES!!!! This is a direct result of the manipulation!!! What we are seeing in the precious metals today with a decoupling between the spot price and "actual" price will hit other commodities as well! IMHO!!!
 Quoting: MaxMad


What will this mean for us potentially? Price controls and the free market tend to be at odds? So a farmer who knows he can get twice as much in China will gladly sell to China for double. Think... Oil, food, Precious Metals, imports will all be affected!
skeptic
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United States
04/23/2013 09:19 AM
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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
bump
MaxMad (OP)

User ID: 13864401
United States
04/23/2013 09:21 AM

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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
bump
 Quoting: skeptic 8198777


I really dont think anyone here cares...
MaxMad (OP)

User ID: 13864401
United States
04/23/2013 09:23 AM

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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
Right now there is price manipulation happening in virtually all markets!! Stocks, bonds, commodities, etc. There is a very big unintended consequence of the artificial suppression of commodity prices that I want you to think about. We all now are seeing how the price of gold and silver on the comex is no where near what costs to acquire the physical. That is because the premium (or the markup from the spot price). I believe this is happening in most commodity markets to try and hide TRUE inflation. The problem is we will see a greater discrepincy between the spot price and the actual price. Think about gas??? In 2007ish the price of a barrel was about the same as it is today, yet we were only paying $1.50ish then for a gallon of gas. Today, They have manipulated the price of oil to "artificial" price however the "actual" price to us is virtually double!!!!! This is very similar in many commodities...

Here is the big problem, my belief is that before we see the huge price spikes in commodities we will first see SHORTAGES!!!! This is a direct result of the manipulation!!! What we are seeing in the precious metals today with a decoupling between the spot price and "actual" price will hit other commodities as well! IMHO!!!
 Quoting: MaxMad


Please people remember the gas lines of the 1970's because of price controls/lack of supply!!! Now imagine that on most commodities! That is whats coming!!
Face Palmer
Yo mamma pulls catapults to gondor

User ID: 1149868
Germany
04/23/2013 09:35 AM

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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
I agree.
"The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title."

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
stormer

User ID: 35713162
South Africa
04/23/2013 09:38 AM

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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
I agree.
 Quoting: Face Palmer


verysadgrumpy2hiding2
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery - Bob Marley
MaxMad (OP)

User ID: 13864401
United States
04/23/2013 09:39 AM

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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
I agree.
 Quoting: Face Palmer


At some point, the free market will win out!
Face Palmer
Yo mamma pulls catapults to gondor

User ID: 38682075
Germany
04/23/2013 09:39 AM

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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
I agree.
 Quoting: Face Palmer


verysadgrumpy2hiding2
 Quoting: stormer


what?
"The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title."

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Anonymous Coward
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Indonesia
04/23/2013 09:47 AM
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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
not carshing ??
Anonymous Coward
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United States
04/23/2013 09:48 AM
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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
The price for fuel is being manipulated higher in order to reduce demand.

But don't worry, it's for your own good.
Jack Stowage
User ID: 37365471
United States
04/23/2013 10:00 AM
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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
I care OP. Were we paying $1.50 in 2007? I remember $4 or so in 2008. I found a photo I took from 1997 and in the background was a gas station sign with Regular at $1.24. After a google search [link to www.ioga.com]
it looks like oil was $23.52 a barrel in Jan 97. $46.53 a barrel in Jan 2007 and $91.71 a barrel in Jan 2012. The chart is Illinois Basin oil prices...whatever that means.
Anonymous Coward
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Italy
04/23/2013 10:07 AM
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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
bump
 Quoting: skeptic 8198777


I really dont think anyone here cares...
 Quoting: MaxMad


shortages already spotted
premiums on the rise

rumors of swiss banks acting like abn amro lately

hiding
MaxMad (OP)

User ID: 13864401
United States
04/23/2013 10:09 AM

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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
bump
 Quoting: skeptic 8198777


I really dont think anyone here cares...
 Quoting: MaxMad


shortages already spotted
premiums on the rise

rumors of swiss banks acting like abn amro lately

hiding
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 38737927


Yes... So instead of allowing true price discovery, they are creating a shortage!!!
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
04/23/2013 10:12 AM
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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
I agree.
 Quoting: Face Palmer


At some point, the free market will win out!
 Quoting: MaxMad


let's hope so!
Anonymous Coward
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New Zealand
04/23/2013 10:14 AM
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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
I agree.
 Quoting: Face Palmer


At some point, the free market will win out!
 Quoting: MaxMad


The free market is a myth held by those who would like to get rich. Once rich, they shut the door on competitors.

Human nature and survival of the fittest. First get rich then talk about free markets.
Anonymous Coward
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04/23/2013 10:14 AM
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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
Right now there is price manipulation happening in virtually all markets!! Stocks, bonds, commodities, etc. There is a very big unintended consequence of the artificial suppression of commodity prices that I want you to think about. We all now are seeing how the price of gold and silver on the comex is no where near what costs to acquire the physical. That is because the premium (or the markup from the spot price). I believe this is happening in most commodity markets to try and hide TRUE inflation. The problem is we will see a greater discrepincy between the spot price and the actual price. Think about gas??? In 2007ish the price of a barrel was about the same as it is today, yet we were only paying $1.50ish then for a gallon of gas. Today, They have manipulated the price of oil to "artificial" price however the "actual" price to us is virtually double!!!!! This is very similar in many commodities...

Here is the big problem, my belief is that before we see the huge price spikes in commodities we will first see SHORTAGES!!!! This is a direct result of the manipulation!!! What we are seeing in the precious metals today with a decoupling between the spot price and "actual" price will hit other commodities as well! IMHO!!!
 Quoting: MaxMad


What will this mean for us potentially? Price controls and the free market tend to be at odds? So a farmer who knows he can get twice as much in China will gladly sell to China for double. Think... Oil, food, Precious Metals, imports will all be affected!
 Quoting: MaxMad


Seems like Obama did an EO to take control of food in case it became necessary.

Have you pulled up your shrubs and started edible landscaping, just in case? LOL
Anonymous Coward
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United States
04/23/2013 10:15 AM
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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
Right now there is price manipulation happening in virtually all markets!! Stocks, bonds, commodities, etc. There is a very big unintended consequence of the artificial suppression of commodity prices that I want you to think about. We all now are seeing how the price of gold and silver on the comex is no where near what costs to acquire the physical. That is because the premium (or the markup from the spot price). I believe this is happening in most commodity markets to try and hide TRUE inflation. The problem is we will see a greater discrepincy between the spot price and the actual price. Think about gas??? In 2007ish the price of a barrel was about the same as it is today, yet we were only paying $1.50ish then for a gallon of gas. Today, They have manipulated the price of oil to "artificial" price however the "actual" price to us is virtually double!!!!! This is very similar in many commodities...

Here is the big problem, my belief is that before we see the huge price spikes in commodities we will first see SHORTAGES!!!! This is a direct result of the manipulation!!! What we are seeing in the precious metals today with a decoupling between the spot price and "actual" price will hit other commodities as well! IMHO!!!
 Quoting: MaxMad


I care, but your article is a little hard to parse.

For one thing, how is the gold price different from the gold spot price? The spot is the price quoted everywhere, and if you go to a gold seller like APMEX you will pay a premium above spot (their profit). You seem to be saying there's some other, "real", price. Tell us more or provide a link please.
MaxMad (OP)

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United States
04/23/2013 10:17 AM

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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
Right now there is price manipulation happening in virtually all markets!! Stocks, bonds, commodities, etc. There is a very big unintended consequence of the artificial suppression of commodity prices that I want you to think about. We all now are seeing how the price of gold and silver on the comex is no where near what costs to acquire the physical. That is because the premium (or the markup from the spot price). I believe this is happening in most commodity markets to try and hide TRUE inflation. The problem is we will see a greater discrepincy between the spot price and the actual price. Think about gas??? In 2007ish the price of a barrel was about the same as it is today, yet we were only paying $1.50ish then for a gallon of gas. Today, They have manipulated the price of oil to "artificial" price however the "actual" price to us is virtually double!!!!! This is very similar in many commodities...

Here is the big problem, my belief is that before we see the huge price spikes in commodities we will first see SHORTAGES!!!! This is a direct result of the manipulation!!! What we are seeing in the precious metals today with a decoupling between the spot price and "actual" price will hit other commodities as well! IMHO!!!
 Quoting: MaxMad


I care, but your article is a little hard to parse.

For one thing, how is the gold price different from the gold spot price? The spot is the price quoted everywhere, and if you go to a gold seller like APMEX you will pay a premium above spot (their profit). You seem to be saying there's some other, "real", price. Tell us more or provide a link please.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6493463


The "real" price is the price it costs you to obtain 1 ounce of physical silver... Not the comex spot!
Anonymous Coward
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New Zealand
04/23/2013 10:19 AM
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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
Right now there is price manipulation happening in virtually all markets!! Stocks, bonds, commodities, etc. There is a very big unintended consequence of the artificial suppression of commodity prices that I want you to think about. We all now are seeing how the price of gold and silver on the comex is no where near what costs to acquire the physical. That is because the premium (or the markup from the spot price). I believe this is happening in most commodity markets to try and hide TRUE inflation. The problem is we will see a greater discrepincy between the spot price and the actual price. Think about gas??? In 2007ish the price of a barrel was about the same as it is today, yet we were only paying $1.50ish then for a gallon of gas. Today, They have manipulated the price of oil to "artificial" price however the "actual" price to us is virtually double!!!!! This is very similar in many commodities...

Here is the big problem, my belief is that before we see the huge price spikes in commodities we will first see SHORTAGES!!!! This is a direct result of the manipulation!!! What we are seeing in the precious metals today with a decoupling between the spot price and "actual" price will hit other commodities as well! IMHO!!!
 Quoting: MaxMad


I care, but your article is a little hard to parse.

For one thing, how is the gold price different from the gold spot price? The spot is the price quoted everywhere, and if you go to a gold seller like APMEX you will pay a premium above spot (their profit). You seem to be saying there's some other, "real", price. Tell us more or provide a link please.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6493463


Even more absurdly, he seems to be suggesting that there is another market for gold other than the official exchanges. Whilst there probably is for granny's bracelet, I would suspect that the industry uses the regular routes, unless of course, they are the Mafia.
Anonymous Coward
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Australia
04/23/2013 10:23 AM
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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
This is all BS. I have been trading gold for 5 years.

Every time the price approaches a large trendline, all the old longs stop losses get breached which causes the price to spike lower. As more and more buyers see the price crashing, they cash out which causes it to crash more. Then the computer algorithms on wall street also start selling and add to the mayhem.

It is about key price points, trendlines and algorithm trading.

The disconnect in spot price for example now in silver $22 and currently $31 is the best price in australia I can get a silver coin for, is purely because bullion dealers buy stock ahead of time and dont want to be caught with their pants down making a loss. The bullion price takes quite a while to fall, you cant expect dealers to risk their asses, its just common sense.

Also why would they lower the price when everyone is even more interested in buying now at $3 or $4 lower than 2 weeks ago prices. Why lower the metal price down to match the spot price when people will all still happily line up for hours at currently prices. You dont put things on sale when they are selling perfectly fine already !

It's just common sense, not a fucking conspiracy every time the price of previous metals falls. Yes the manipulate it to some extent at key price points, but once it breaches the price it then free falls and is out of their control.

Don't be surprised if silver falls to $17 before we see it go back up again either.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
04/23/2013 10:25 AM
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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
Shortages?

You bet.

Of food.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
04/23/2013 10:26 AM
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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
AC 6496433 ..... The 'manipulators' have NO LINK; or, are you shilling for THEM ?

Either your comprehension level is 2nd grade, OR your background level of knowledge is close to zero. Go back to the TV. It has all the info your EVER going to need !
Anonymous Coward
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United States
04/23/2013 10:29 AM
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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
Here's hoping the whole damned mess collapes 5a
Masturbating Fred

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United States
04/23/2013 10:33 AM

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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
Cites and data are always appreciated.
Opinions, not so much.
 Quoting: The Comedian


Indeed.
If they're made of steel, they'll feel my heel!!!
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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United States
04/23/2013 10:34 AM

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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
This is all BS. I have been trading gold for 5 years.

Every time the price approaches a large trendline, all the old longs stop losses get breached which causes the price to spike lower. As more and more buyers see the price crashing, they cash out which causes it to crash more. Then the computer algorithms on wall street also start selling and add to the mayhem.

It is about key price points, trendlines and algorithm trading.

The disconnect in spot price for example now in silver $22 and currently $31 is the best price in australia I can get a silver coin for, is purely because bullion dealers buy stock ahead of time and dont want to be caught with their pants down making a loss. The bullion price takes quite a while to fall, you cant expect dealers to risk their asses, its just common sense.

Also why would they lower the price when everyone is even more interested in buying now at $3 or $4 lower than 2 weeks ago prices. Why lower the metal price down to match the spot price when people will all still happily line up for hours at currently prices. You dont put things on sale when they are selling perfectly fine already !

It's just common sense, not a fucking conspiracy every time the price of previous metals falls. Yes the manipulate it to some extent at key price points, but once it breaches the price it then free falls and is out of their control.

Don't be surprised if silver falls to $17 before we see it go back up again either.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9761298


I think you're right to an extent, the disconnect in spot vs retail is in large part because of existing inventory. This happens to some extent every time there is a large downward move, supplies seem to dry up.

But why do supplies dry up? Is it because there really is no inventory, or is it because the wholesalers are holding fast to wait and see if the market jumps back up, and when it doesn't, you see this increase in premium spreads to make up for the shortfall in spot in relation to the cost of the inventory.

It's common sense. But I think as we go through the existing inventory we'll see a narrowing of premiums as wholesalers buy more inventory at lower prices from metals producers, and the spot price begins to reflect down the chain once again...

Goldman relieving themselves of their short positions will make a difference, but honestly I would like to see this market on a definite uptrend before I begin to buy more physical metals anyway, and as soon as you begin to see a definite uptrend, there will be plenty of inventory on hand to handle the demand, and premiums will narrow down again.

All this assuming the world doesn't blow up in the meantime of course...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Coelho

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Brazil
04/23/2013 10:40 AM

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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
Just to give you some perspective: In 1918 the average car would cost you $360. An equivalent today is $5,216. You would need then about 9Kg of silver. Today you would need 7kg of silver. This math shows that silver is a bit overvalued in relation to 1918 but also shows what they did to the dollar (inflation).

Source: [link to thecostofliving.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 9761298
Australia
04/23/2013 10:42 AM
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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
What the junkies looking for quick profit dont realise is that as soon as gold price goes back up to the previous resistance line which it fell through, at around $1520 per ounce or somewhere there, it will hit a ceiling and then fall straight back down again.

Once you break down these critical price levels, it doesnt just go back up, the algorithms take full advantage, i wont be surpised to see them sell every new price climb for the next 6 months until people get tired of being ass raped and just give up trying to buy, the price will then drop again sharply and only then will it have a chance to make it back up, once the big boys have had enough rapeage of the general public who think the price has bottomed right now.

I set my sell price at 1515 two years ago and wasnt even watching the market last week when it crashed until a day after the crash, no surprise once it broke 1520 what was gonna happen and im only a noob compared to the wall street guys, do you think i am closing my short sells just yet ? hell no.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
04/23/2013 10:42 AM
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Re: Economic collapse and price controls on commodities!!
Highly astute observations, OP.

Makes much sense.

Thank you.

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