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Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 39162081
Australia
05/01/2013 07:48 AM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
"Homosexuality" isn't "Gay" "Gay" means "Happy"

Sorry but "Homosexual People are not Happy people"

Christians shouldn't uplift that which is a Sin

It would be a folly to think that one can be a Christian and a homosexual together

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:22-23

Iniquity is a fancy way of saying: Sin!

Rick Warren and the other ecumenical preachers are wrong.

we can't just all Grab hands and unite in Christ, we also actually need to repent of are Sins because God can't have any use for us if we are STILL practicing Sin.

The first thing the Holy Spirit does is convict a man of what a wicked sinner he/she is, then he/she would plead for forgiveness to Christ that His precious Blood might blot out their transgressions, then He/She would put away Sin forever Hopefully
Nefertiti (OP)

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05/01/2013 07:53 AM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Hey Amazed,

This Paul issue is pretty serious as you know. Many pastors in lower order churches (that is to say non-traditional ones like Pentacostal) base most of their Bible teaching on Paul's Epistles. They will say "Jesus said..." And in the next breath use Scripture from Paul to further explain what Jesus meant. You know what I mean?

Paul is like the fundamentalist Christian in the Bible. He breaks down everything and has rules for how to live a Christian life. If the book of Paul didn't exist (abstract thinking), how would homosexuality be treated? How would the question of drinking alcohol be treated? How would the question of sex be treated?

I believe that certain things would suffer the fate of the laws in Leviticus. They would be seen as geared strictly towards Jewish culture. Jews don't eat pork, but we do. Why? Paul told us that what goes into the body doesn't defile it but rather what comes out of it. Catholic Priests drink alcohol. They say Jesus turned water into wine and there are other instances where God tells his people to celebrate by feasting and drinking wine in the OT. Protestant priests do not drink. Why? Because Paul said that in whatever you do, do not become a stumbling block for others. That God hates drunkards and so they see this to mean God hates consumers of alcohol.

On the issue of homosexuality, I am not aware of a difference in how different Churches see this. The Catholic and Anglican (which we know is really Catholic) are of one mind. I think that Born Again Churches are too. Is there any church you know that argues the opposite using Biblical Scripture?
Nefertiti (OP)

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05/01/2013 07:56 AM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
"Homosexuality" isn't "Gay" "Gay" means "Happy"

Sorry but "Homosexual People are not Happy people"

Christians shouldn't uplift that which is a Sin

It would be a folly to think that one can be a Christian and a homosexual together

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:22-23

Iniquity is a fancy way of saying: Sin!

Rick Warren and the other ecumenical preachers are wrong.

we can't just all Grab hands and unite in Christ, we also actually need to repent of are Sins because God can't have any use for us if we are STILL practicing Sin.

The first thing the Holy Spirit does is convict a man of what a wicked sinner he/she is, then he/she would plead for forgiveness to Christ that His precious Blood might blot out their transgressions, then He/She would put away Sin forever Hopefully
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39162081


I always thought the word "gay" was an undercover word. Can't imagine people walking around calling themselves homosexuals without risking life and limb.

What does Rick Warren say?
Anonymous Coward
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05/01/2013 08:20 AM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Religious morans

no independent thought, just endless assumptions of what they think God thinks. they think some heavily bastardized book has all the answers if they can interpret it literally.

guess what morans, your GOD is actually an alien bastard. And this "God" AKA Jehovah/Saturn is also Satan, Lucifer, the evil one. ever wonder why human beings are forced to worship - no matter what - it's always something. this is because this being lives off your power.

He plays both sides, light and dark. As above so below. Democrats and Republicans. Pepsi and Coke. McDonalds or Burger King. One of these days you'll figure this out, but in the mean time enjoy your delusions, psychotic fucks
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28799984


Lol.... your characterization of my belief system is evidence of your own delusional psychosis. Sorry, but I laugh. You should maybe seek professional help?
071676

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05/01/2013 08:29 AM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
My country has been in the news for wanting to kill homosexuals. The facts are:

1) A single Member of Parliament drafted a Private Member's Bill that called for all manner of things against homosexuals. It isn't a government position.

2) Most Ugandans could care less about this Bill or about who is homosexual since it doesn't affect their daily lives.

3) A certain group of homosexual organizations have taken it upon themselves to "educate" children here about the what, how and why of homosexuality. In response, certain Christian groups and parents have launched a counter campaign.

I'm hetero. I have a couple of homosexual friends. I don't really like to think about what they do and I'm not comfortable with tv series where men kiss men. Being a woman, I'm repelled by the idea that a woman will hit on me. So personally, I wouldn't tell my kids that homosexuality is an option.

Does that mean we should discriminate against them? Should we be bullying them? Are they morally bankrupt compared to heteros? I don't think so. Most rape, pedophelia and deviant non consensual sex is committed by heterosexuals. So if someone is gay or lesbian, it doesn't mean that they are automatically deviant. Judging by some people's hatred, you would think they have never met a gay man or lesbian. If you know any, you'd find that they are human beings like the rest of us. In fact, if you found your son is gay, you'd quickly discover that this is more complicated than simply labeling them deviant.

The only thing that points to homosexuality as being immoral is Religion. But it also states a number of things that are immoral but that we "allow" to happen. Adultery, fornication, lust, envy....you name it. Where do we get off "hating" homosexuals? How do we justify giving this "sin" more weight than the others? If the wages of sin...is death, then we are all doomed, homosexual or not. We are all sinners. How are we different from homosexuals?
 Quoting: Nefertiti


My daughter has several homosexual friends and one day she asked me why I don't like her friends. I asked her if she was willing to spend eternity in Hell for her friends, and if any of her friends were willing to do the same for her. She insisted that she wouldn't go to hell for agreeing with homosexuals.

I reminded her that Jesus said that whatever you hold in your heart, you also hold in your soul. If your soul accepts sin as acceptable, then you accept sin over GOD. I again asked if she was willing to spend eternity in Hell for the sins of her friends, reminding her that just accepting friends is not the sin but accepting their sins as acceptable was. She was less sure as before, but still don't see the connection. I told her that I had several more years on earth to learn from and that she hopefully had even more years, but the length of a life does not determine the chance to prove your soul unless you make that move of your own free will.

The problem is not if a person is a homosexual or not, but rather if they allow that sin to define them upon the presence of GOD. A belief in GOD or not is not necessary to be judged by GOD. Once GOD decries a sin, it is not up to us to call GOD a liar and a bigot for refusing to change GOD's views to suit our own. Refusing GOD because you choose not to accept GOD will not deny you your judgement before GOD.
Anonymous Coward
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05/01/2013 08:33 AM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Absolutely Nef... It is amazing.

But then for Paul to use that falsehood as a justification in the further oppression of women is unbelievable.

1 Timothy 2:11-14 “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”


Poor little Adam was deceived twice, once by a stray snake and the other time by those vicious, hateful, deceitful women. 1rof1

But his other argument is a gem also... Men came first...

Why didn't he just say... "afterall women are only a rib". 1rof1

Of course the Churches ran with Paul's falsehoods entirely.

Women were oppressed for nearly another 2000 years by this one man's words.

Has the penny dropped yet ladies?

You have been had! And in clear and plain sight.

Wakey! Wakey!

lolsign
 Quoting: Amazed Continually! 1190661

You still haven't gotten a clue? There are those of us women that uphold what the Bible says about how women should act and behave. Looking at who women act and behave these days, I believe the teachings of Paul. Who wants their little girls to grow up to be whores and sluts like Britney Spears, Beyonce, etc? Seriously.... Let me 'splain somthin', Lucy(Lucifer)... Have you ever read the book of Ruth? Esther? There are many women that are respected in Biblical times... the woman who spilled the expensive oil on Jesus' head, at the supper... Sarah, Abraham's wife. I find it funny how you prattle on and on about how women may themselves perceive their own roles in the lives of their husband and family, calling them wrong, and rubbish... when, YOU, as a self-professed MAN, really have NO business telling other females, other than your own wife, how to live and what they should believe. Believe it or not, there are some of us, and we can start with me, that will tell you, you can shove your lame argument up your ass and have a nice day. And we will pray for you.

I'm still looking around for the church... and since we're not in one, my silence nor subjugation is not required.
Anonymous Coward
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05/01/2013 08:50 AM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Your entire post reeks of misery. And where's the typo in 'The Gospel is commonly referred to as the first 4 books of the New Testament'? In case you didn't know, the Gospel is commonly referred to as the first 4 books as a whole, one Gospel. When someone asks you to read the Gospel, they have you start off with Matthew, then to go through John. In case you didn't know, the Gospel is about Jesus' life here on earth, and His teachings. That is what we're to "preach". In case you didn't know, spreading(or preaching) the Gospel is merely witnessing to others about those 4 books. In case you didn't know, the letters of Paul are not considered part of the Gospel.

You assume too much about people you don't know, that we may or may not pray correctly, and what-have-you. In case you didn't know, one's relationship with Jesus is a private matter, and not everyone's relationship is the same. In my opinion, it seems as if you're the one praying amiss. I'm free to make assumptions based on the words that come from you, for Jesus told us to 'judge righteous judgment'. You're free, of course, to continue to belittle my beliefs, as you've been continually doing along with being amazed, which to me, just sounds as if you're in a state of perpetual childhood, as children are continuously amazed by the world around them... and that totally makes sense, because all of your posts reflect an immaturity that I myself am amazed at. You must be super proud of yourself.
Amazed Continually!
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05/01/2013 09:39 AM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Absolutely Nef... It is amazing.

But then for Paul to use that falsehood as a justification in the further oppression of women is unbelievable.

1 Timothy 2:11-14 “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”


Poor little Adam was deceived twice, once by a stray snake and the other time by those vicious, hateful, deceitful women. 1rof1

But his other argument is a gem also... Men came first...

Why didn't he just say... "afterall women are only a rib". 1rof1

Of course the Churches ran with Paul's falsehoods entirely.

Women were oppressed for nearly another 2000 years by this one man's words.

Has the penny dropped yet ladies?

You have been had! And in clear and plain sight.

Wakey! Wakey!

lolsign
 Quoting: Amazed Continually! 1190661

You still haven't gotten a clue? There are those of us women that uphold what the Bible says about how women should act and behave. Looking at who women act and behave these days, I believe the teachings of Paul. Who wants their little girls to grow up to be whores and sluts like Britney Spears, Beyonce, etc? Seriously.... Let me 'splain somthin', Lucy(Lucifer)... Have you ever read the book of Ruth? Esther? There are many women that are respected in Biblical times... the woman who spilled the expensive oil on Jesus' head, at the supper... Sarah, Abraham's wife. I find it funny how you prattle on and on about how women may themselves perceive their own roles in the lives of their husband and family, calling them wrong, and rubbish... when, YOU, as a self-professed MAN, really have NO business telling other females, other than your own wife, how to live and what they should believe. Believe it or not, there are some of us, and we can start with me, that will tell you, you can shove your lame argument up your ass and have a nice day. And we will pray for you.

I'm still looking around for the church... and since we're not in one, my silence nor subjugation is not required.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26033707


Keep looking for that Church oh indoctrinated one.

Did you get permission from your husband to respond?...lol

Why don't you get the simple fact that you have been had?...lol

I'm not telling you what to believe... More bearing of false witness...

Paul and the Churches did that... Where did Jesus teach the oppression of women that Paul taught?

You aren't very good at this Christianity stuff are you?...1rof1

Why would I want you to be silent? I'm against Paul's teachings!

Besides every time you type you actually are agreeing with me and proving me correct.. Was I too subtle for you? 1rof1

You are ignoring Paul's false teachings without even realising it!

lolsign
Amazed Continually!
User ID: 1190661
Australia
05/01/2013 10:12 AM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Hey Amazed,

This Paul issue is pretty serious as you know. Many pastors in lower order churches (that is to say non-traditional ones like Pentacostal) base most of their Bible teaching on Paul's Epistles. They will say "Jesus said..." And in the next breath use Scripture from Paul to further explain what Jesus meant. You know what I mean?

Paul is like the fundamentalist Christian in the Bible. He breaks down everything and has rules for how to live a Christian life. If the book of Paul didn't exist (abstract thinking), how would homosexuality be treated? How would the question of drinking alcohol be treated? How would the question of sex be treated?

I believe that certain things would suffer the fate of the laws in Leviticus. They would be seen as geared strictly towards Jewish culture. Jews don't eat pork, but we do. Why? Paul told us that what goes into the body doesn't defile it but rather what comes out of it. Catholic Priests drink alcohol. They say Jesus turned water into wine and there are other instances where God tells his people to celebrate by feasting and drinking wine in the OT. Protestant priests do not drink. Why? Because Paul said that in whatever you do, do not become a stumbling block for others. That God hates drunkards and so they see this to mean God hates consumers of alcohol.

On the issue of homosexuality, I am not aware of a difference in how different Churches see this. The Catholic and Anglican (which we know is really Catholic) are of one mind. I think that Born Again Churches are too. Is there any church you know that argues the opposite using Biblical Scripture?
 Quoting: Nefertiti


I don't know of any Churches that would welcome homosexuals with no judgement.

They would say you can join but you must stop sinning. As I explained earlier if you knew you were heterosexual from the youngest age then that applies to a homosexual also - so they calling it sin is a judgement.

They can't have it both ways! The choice is a joke!

But also many think you can catch it...

I walked past some homosexuals the other day... I must be pathetically weak... I didn't catch it. This heterosexuality is a curse...1rof1

Now of course Paul like all of us did some good things.

He helped spread Christianity to others, but was he truly spreading Jesus' teachings or his own?

Most people who call themselves Christian are really Paulian. They just don't know it. I like you have listened to them blur the lines so easily.

In effect they pay more attention to Paul than the one they call their Christ. Amazing!

They have allowed Paul way too much scope in introducing his pharisaical ways into Christianity. That is where the oppression of women came from.

That is why he said

Acts 23:6 “But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.”

Most honest Christians admit that they didn't even know that was in the Bible, until I showed it to them.

So much for their study methods.

Great thread though... It has exposed the unGODly thinking of many. Those people who have called you a hoimosexual, just because of your thread, can't really call themselves Christian, now can they.

lolsign
Nefertiti (OP)

User ID: 1676068
Uganda
05/01/2013 02:29 PM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
My country has been in the news for wanting to kill homosexuals. The facts are:

1) A single Member of Parliament drafted a Private Member's Bill that called for all manner of things against homosexuals. It isn't a government position.

2) Most Ugandans could care less about this Bill or about who is homosexual since it doesn't affect their daily lives.

3) A certain group of homosexual organizations have taken it upon themselves to "educate" children here about the what, how and why of homosexuality. In response, certain Christian groups and parents have launched a counter campaign.

I'm hetero. I have a couple of homosexual friends. I don't really like to think about what they do and I'm not comfortable with tv series where men kiss men. Being a woman, I'm repelled by the idea that a woman will hit on me. So personally, I wouldn't tell my kids that homosexuality is an option.

Does that mean we should discriminate against them? Should we be bullying them? Are they morally bankrupt compared to heteros? I don't think so. Most rape, pedophelia and deviant non consensual sex is committed by heterosexuals. So if someone is gay or lesbian, it doesn't mean that they are automatically deviant. Judging by some people's hatred, you would think they have never met a gay man or lesbian. If you know any, you'd find that they are human beings like the rest of us. In fact, if you found your son is gay, you'd quickly discover that this is more complicated than simply labeling them deviant.

The only thing that points to homosexuality as being immoral is Religion. But it also states a number of things that are immoral but that we "allow" to happen. Adultery, fornication, lust, envy....you name it. Where do we get off "hating" homosexuals? How do we justify giving this "sin" more weight than the others? If the wages of sin...is death, then we are all doomed, homosexual or not. We are all sinners. How are we different from homosexuals?
 Quoting: Nefertiti


My daughter has several homosexual friends and one day she asked me why I don't like her friends. I asked her if she was willing to spend eternity in Hell for her friends, and if any of her friends were willing to do the same for her. She insisted that she wouldn't go to hell for agreeing with homosexuals.

I reminded her that Jesus said that whatever you hold in your heart, you also hold in your soul. If your soul accepts sin as acceptable, then you accept sin over GOD. I again asked if she was willing to spend eternity in Hell for the sins of her friends, reminding her that just accepting friends is not the sin but accepting their sins as acceptable was. She was less sure as before, but still don't see the connection. I told her that I had several more years on earth to learn from and that she hopefully had even more years, but the length of a life does not determine the chance to prove your soul unless you make that move of your own free will.

The problem is not if a person is a homosexual or not, but rather if they allow that sin to define them upon the presence of GOD. A belief in GOD or not is not necessary to be judged by GOD. Once GOD decries a sin, it is not up to us to call GOD a liar and a bigot for refusing to change GOD's views to suit our own. Refusing GOD because you choose not to accept GOD will not deny you your judgement before GOD.
 Quoting: 071676


Interesting. The question would then be, how do you define yourself? If you define yourself as homosexual, then you're a sinner in the presence of God. If you say you don't believe in God, it will not change the fact that you will face judgement. If you define yourself as a thief, then you're a sinner and so on as above.

So what happens to priests who are homosexual but keep it hidden? They pray and repent daily and they definitely don't define themselves as homosexuals. What happens with homosexuals who are torn up about their orientation? There are probably many who battle with this issue. They fall sometimes but then get up, repent and try to abstain until something happens. What do you mean by "define yourself"?
Nefertiti (OP)

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05/01/2013 02:44 PM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Hey Amazed,

This Paul issue is pretty serious as you know. Many pastors in lower order churches (that is to say non-traditional ones like Pentacostal) base most of their Bible teaching on Paul's Epistles. They will say "Jesus said..." And in the next breath use Scripture from Paul to further explain what Jesus meant. You know what I mean?

Paul is like the fundamentalist Christian in the Bible. He breaks down everything and has rules for how to live a Christian life. If the book of Paul didn't exist (abstract thinking), how would homosexuality be treated? How would the question of drinking alcohol be treated? How would the question of sex be treated?

I believe that certain things would suffer the fate of the laws in Leviticus. They would be seen as geared strictly towards Jewish culture. Jews don't eat pork, but we do. Why? Paul told us that what goes into the body doesn't defile it but rather what comes out of it. Catholic Priests drink alcohol. They say Jesus turned water into wine and there are other instances where God tells his people to celebrate by feasting and drinking wine in the OT. Protestant priests do not drink. Why? Because Paul said that in whatever you do, do not become a stumbling block for others. That God hates drunkards and so they see this to mean God hates consumers of alcohol.

On the issue of homosexuality, I am not aware of a difference in how different Churches see this. The Catholic and Anglican (which we know is really Catholic) are of one mind. I think that Born Again Churches are too. Is there any church you know that argues the opposite using Biblical Scripture?
 Quoting: Nefertiti


I don't know of any Churches that would welcome homosexuals with no judgement.

They would say you can join but you must stop sinning. As I explained earlier if you knew you were heterosexual from the youngest age then that applies to a homosexual also - so they calling it sin is a judgement.

They can't have it both ways! The choice is a joke!

But also many think you can catch it...

I walked past some homosexuals the other day... I must be pathetically weak... I didn't catch it. This heterosexuality is a curse...1rof1

Now of course Paul like all of us did some good things.

He helped spread Christianity to others, but was he truly spreading Jesus' teachings or his own?

Most people who call themselves Christian are really Paulian. They just don't know it. I like you have listened to them blur the lines so easily.

In effect they pay more attention to Paul than the one they call their Christ. Amazing!

They have allowed Paul way too much scope in introducing his pharisaical ways into Christianity. That is where the oppression of women came from.

That is why he said

Acts 23:6 “But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.”

Most honest Christians admit that they didn't even know that was in the Bible, until I showed it to them.

So much for their study methods.

Great thread though... It has exposed the unGODly thinking of many. Those people who have called you a hoimosexual, just because of your thread, can't really call themselves Christian, now can they.

lolsign
 Quoting: Amazed Continually! 1190661


Those people whose only response is to call me gay for starting this thread are welcome here. They prove my original point. There are Christians who hate homosexuals!

Amazed, if we were to go by Jesus' words alone then marriage is between a man and a woman. Sex outside of marriage Is a big no no. Jesus said he didn't come to change one tittle of the Law. So in essence He validated Leviticus in its entirety, right? If we forget about Paul for a moment, do you think the Church can actually find room for practicing homosexuals based on the Gospels?

(I think this is what theologians spend time doing. They ponder these very same questions and study scripture.)
Anonymous Coward
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05/01/2013 02:47 PM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
I am catholic and I reserve my hate for animal and child abusers. I would happily throw them off bridges without water at the bottom.
Amazed Continually!
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05/01/2013 08:27 PM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Hey Amazed,

This Paul issue is pretty serious as you know. Many pastors in lower order churches (that is to say non-traditional ones like Pentacostal) base most of their Bible teaching on Paul's Epistles. They will say "Jesus said..." And in the next breath use Scripture from Paul to further explain what Jesus meant. You know what I mean?

Paul is like the fundamentalist Christian in the Bible. He breaks down everything and has rules for how to live a Christian life. If the book of Paul didn't exist (abstract thinking), how would homosexuality be treated? How would the question of drinking alcohol be treated? How would the question of sex be treated?

I believe that certain things would suffer the fate of the laws in Leviticus. They would be seen as geared strictly towards Jewish culture. Jews don't eat pork, but we do. Why? Paul told us that what goes into the body doesn't defile it but rather what comes out of it. Catholic Priests drink alcohol. They say Jesus turned water into wine and there are other instances where God tells his people to celebrate by feasting and drinking wine in the OT. Protestant priests do not drink. Why? Because Paul said that in whatever you do, do not become a stumbling block for others. That God hates drunkards and so they see this to mean God hates consumers of alcohol.

On the issue of homosexuality, I am not aware of a difference in how different Churches see this. The Catholic and Anglican (which we know is really Catholic) are of one mind. I think that Born Again Churches are too. Is there any church you know that argues the opposite using Biblical Scripture?
 Quoting: Nefertiti


I don't know of any Churches that would welcome homosexuals with no judgement.

They would say you can join but you must stop sinning. As I explained earlier if you knew you were heterosexual from the youngest age then that applies to a homosexual also - so they calling it sin is a judgement.

They can't have it both ways! The choice is a joke!

But also many think you can catch it...

I walked past some homosexuals the other day... I must be pathetically weak... I didn't catch it. This heterosexuality is a curse...1rof1

Now of course Paul like all of us did some good things.

He helped spread Christianity to others, but was he truly spreading Jesus' teachings or his own?

Most people who call themselves Christian are really Paulian. They just don't know it. I like you have listened to them blur the lines so easily.

In effect they pay more attention to Paul than the one they call their Christ. Amazing!

They have allowed Paul way too much scope in introducing his pharisaical ways into Christianity. That is where the oppression of women came from.

That is why he said

Acts 23:6 “But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.”

Most honest Christians admit that they didn't even know that was in the Bible, until I showed it to them.

So much for their study methods.

Great thread though... It has exposed the unGODly thinking of many. Those people who have called you a hoimosexual, just because of your thread, can't really call themselves Christian, now can they.

lolsign
 Quoting: Amazed Continually! 1190661


Those people whose only response is to call me gay for starting this thread are welcome here. They prove my original point. There are Christians who hate homosexuals!

Amazed, if we were to go by Jesus' words alone then marriage is between a man and a woman. Sex outside of marriage Is a big no no. Jesus said he didn't come to change one tittle of the Law. So in essence He validated Leviticus in its entirety, right? If we forget about Paul for a moment, do you think the Church can actually find room for practicing homosexuals based on the Gospels?

(I think this is what theologians spend time doing. They ponder these very same questions and study scripture.)
 Quoting: Nefertiti


I'm not so sure about that being true about Jesus' words. Afterall he changed laws of "an eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek", so what else might he have altered that wasn't reported in the 4 gospels.

I have great trouble believing the OT laws are from GOD. Mosaic laws are Sharia Law and I just can't believe that GOD would allow such things as

The cutting off of hands Deuteronomy 25:12 Then you shall cut off her hand, your eye shall not pity her.

Selling kids into slavery Exodus 21:7 "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.

Or the animal sacrifice laws of Leviticus, and the other horrid laws judging women.

Even the 10 commandments have a major flaw and Moses showed it up himself and used the loophole.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."

Moses changes "stubborn and rebellious" by adding "a glutton and a drunkard", thereby bearing FALSE WITNESS!

Moses is teaching people to break the 9th Commandment.

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Why would GOD think it is fine to bear false witness against a relative, thereby getting the son stoned to death! He states clearly "against thy neighbour".

See it doesn't make any sense.

GOD the most intelligent being ever, missed this point in the 10 commandments? Surely GOD would say "Do not bear false witness against anybody"!

I have spoken to homosexuals and they say they just new that they were different from as early as they can remember. They were attracted to their own gender only.

So if that is the case then "it is natural" and I will not discriminate against them or anyone ever.

Sorry gotta dash.

hf
Anonymous Coward
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05/01/2013 08:35 PM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Things are designed for a reason. There are one way valves, and there are receptive valves............

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33506554


Agreed. Could you imagine someone building a house, and when the plumbing is installed, they only install pipes with male connectors?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26033707

Last time I noticed, plumbing doesn't have a heart, emotions, feelings, etc. What a dumb comment!
Amazed Continually!
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05/01/2013 08:41 PM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Believe it or not, there are some of us, and we can start with me, that will tell you, you can shove your lame argument up your ass and have a nice day. And we will pray for you.

I'm still looking around for the church... and since we're not in one, my silence nor subjugation is not required.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26033707


WOW! OUCH! That hurt... Is that the best insult you can throw at me? 1rof1

Telling me where to stick it just oozes Christianity... GOD will be so proud of you... 1rof1

So now you have dropped your guard and showed your true colors let's see what other teachings you are failing.

Are you sure of the accusation you are making?

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. FAIL!

Are you judging?

Matthew 7:1-5 "Do not judge others...." FAIL!

Are you bringing peace with your words?

Matthew 5:9: "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." FAIL!

Are you being merciful? FAIL!

Matthew 5:7 "Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy." FAIL!

Are you entitled to cast the first stone? FAIL!

John 8:7: So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Who does heaven belong to? You might qualify here...1rof1

Matthew 5:3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

Are you turning the other cheek?

Matthew 5:39 "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." FAIL!

Are you angry at me?

Matthew 5:22 "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." FAIL!

Sorry to have to remind you of some of Jesus' teachings you may not be following but he also said

Mark 10:31 "But many that are first shall be last; and the last first."

It's tough being a Christian with rules like these, BUT they are in your Bibles, instructed by Jesus himself, and they must be followed to call yourself a Christian. Mustn't they?

I'm pleased that you showed your true colors so I could correct you.

I turn the other cheek... my ass has two after all - Jesus will be so proud of me... 1rof1

I'm amazed that you don't know the true meaning of the word Church... But hey you don't seem to know much else so I'll put it down to lack of edumcationalistaion...

You are a funny one.

ohyeah
Amazed Continually!
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Christians discriminate against homosexuals because they need someone to oppress.

They don't know their BIBLES well enough to know that it is totally wrong to oppress anyone.

They love throwing the guilt trip on homosexuals because it makes them feel superior.

They pick and choose anything that suits their bigotry.

Sad but true!

hf
 Quoting: Amazed Continually! 1190661


The delusional post of the day so far, God´s condemning homosexuality in the Bible. Whatever
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 38537724

A God that condems, shows wrath or anger is a beeing that should urgently work on his spiritual deficits.
 Quoting: Stefan Parlow


Haha... As if you're the one to tell God he should change. Good luck with that.
Acts 10:34: Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons

So yeah, I don't think God cares what you think He should or should not do, lol.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26033707


Um you have misrepresented this verse to suit your own ends...

Surely Peter saying that would have made you question your understanding.

If Jesus is GOD then how could Peter say that and mean what you have interpreted? He spent most of his time with Jesus.

Jesus respected most people, it was just the Pharisees, Sadducees, Teacher's of the Law, false teachers and money changers in the temple he showed disrespect to.

More likely it means "God doesn't show favouritism".

[link to www.blueletterbible.org]

But that too is problematic if Jesus is GOD.

According to John that is wrong.

Get ready to be shocked.

John 13:23-26 Then the disciples looked one on another, doubting of whom he spake.

Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.

Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.

He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?


If you were to only read till verse 24 you might think it was Mary on his bosom. BUT, when verse 26 is stated it states "HE" which could mean Peter, or someone else.

Now again, because of the lack of detail in this verse this could mean Mary or another disciple.

John 21:20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

Who was the disciple that JESUS loved? I thought he loved them all. It appears to be a male.

John 20:1-2 The first (day) of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.


Strange happenings indeed!

John 21:7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt [his] fisher's coat (unto him), (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.

There definitely appears to be a disciple whom JESUS loved more than the others. Well according to John any way. Why would it be referenced if it means nothing?

John 21:20-21 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what (shall) this man (do)?


The problem is it keeps referring to "the disciple whom JESUS loved.

So did Jesus/GOD show favoritism? And if what these verses seem to be saying, does that make what Peter said in Acts 10:34 untrue?

More to consider!

ohyeah
Nefertiti (OP)

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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
I'm not so sure about that being true about Jesus' words. Afterall he changed laws of "an eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek", so what else might he have altered that wasn't reported in the 4 gospels.

I have great trouble believing the OT laws are from GOD. Mosaic laws are Sharia Law and I just can't believe that GOD would allow such things as

The cutting off of hands Deuteronomy 25:12 Then you shall cut off her hand, your eye shall not pity her.

Selling kids into slavery Exodus 21:7 "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.

Or the animal sacrifice laws of Leviticus, and the other horrid laws judging women.

Even the 10 commandments have a major flaw and Moses showed it up himself and used the loophole.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."

Moses changes "stubborn and rebellious" by adding "a glutton and a drunkard", thereby bearing FALSE WITNESS!

Moses is teaching people to break the 9th Commandment.

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Why would GOD think it is fine to bear false witness against a relative, thereby getting the son stoned to death! He states clearly "against thy neighbour".

See it doesn't make any sense.

GOD the most intelligent being ever, missed this point in the 10 commandments? Surely GOD would say "Do not bear false witness against anybody"!

I have spoken to homosexuals and they say they just new that they were different from as early as they can remember. They were attracted to their own gender only.

So if that is the case then "it is natural" and I will not discriminate against them or anyone ever.

Sorry gotta dash.

hf
 Quoting: Amazed Continually! 1190661


I had to take some time out to think about this. I know about the argument by some that the God of OT and the God of NT are two different Gods based on how He acts. The laws in Leviticus, the orders to annihilate whole cities including women and children, the killing of children to force the release of Jews from Egypt, etc. it all doesn't seem like the loving God Jesus told us about. As a Christian, I really have a hard time believing this. I simply can't. It would mean the destruction of the foundation of Christianity.

So yes, I see your argument. I wonder too why, if homosexuality is a sin, some are born with this inclination? Personally I'm not satisfied with the idea that we cannot and should not question God. That's ridiculous. The Father Jesus told us about told us to seek, to ask and to believe before seeing. Well, I believe there is an answer. I don't know what it is but it's there. We just have to search.

Now while we search, I really don't feel comfortable with Christians using the Scriptures as justification for hatred of homosexuals. It just doesn't make sense. While I have plenty of friends who find the Scriptures acceptable and who do not question whether or not they make sense, I'm not like that. It is my belief that I am meant to understand. That I am meant to hear and see the sense should I so wish.

Those who have ears and those who have eyes.... One priest told me that I am intentionally refusing to see and hear. That I have little faith. He quoted Christ to me..."Oh ye of little faith..." But I felt like he'd given me the standard blow off that those who are at a loss of words give others. Basically saying that something is wrong with me if I don't get it. Well, the God that I'm 100% sure exists would never forsake me or any of his creation in the same manner. Need I say more? The basis of Christianity is that God loved us so much he sacrificed his only Son. That means He loved me and every other sinner out there. So there is a contradiction when we pick out homosexuals (whose "sin" is obvious and visible) to be the only category that we will not accept.

We have accepted thieves. We find it in our Hearst to forgive them. We have accepted fornicators, we forgive them too. Adulterers, malicious and envious people. All we ask of them is to repent and then we assume they've changed for the better. The difference with homosexuals is that they are saying they don't want to hide anymore. They are tired of pretending they are not homosexual. They are telling us that this is not as clear as stealing, committing adultery, fornicating, etc.
Nefertiti (OP)

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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Amazed,

I forgot to respond to something. Yes, Jesus did change the Law somewhat. For one thing he told us the priority laws, so to speak. He summarized the Law into two things. Love God and love your neighbor. The question is how to apply this change to homosexuals.
Amazed Continually!
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05/02/2013 08:56 PM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
I'm not so sure about that being true about Jesus' words. Afterall he changed laws of "an eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek", so what else might he have altered that wasn't reported in the 4 gospels.

I have great trouble believing the OT laws are from GOD. Mosaic laws are Sharia Law and I just can't believe that GOD would allow such things as

The cutting off of hands Deuteronomy 25:12 Then you shall cut off her hand, your eye shall not pity her.

Selling kids into slavery Exodus 21:7 "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.

Or the animal sacrifice laws of Leviticus, and the other horrid laws judging women.

Even the 10 commandments have a major flaw and Moses showed it up himself and used the loophole.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."

Moses changes "stubborn and rebellious" by adding "a glutton and a drunkard", thereby bearing FALSE WITNESS!

Moses is teaching people to break the 9th Commandment.

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Why would GOD think it is fine to bear false witness against a relative, thereby getting the son stoned to death! He states clearly "against thy neighbour".

See it doesn't make any sense.

GOD the most intelligent being ever, missed this point in the 10 commandments? Surely GOD would say "Do not bear false witness against anybody"!

I have spoken to homosexuals and they say they just new that they were different from as early as they can remember. They were attracted to their own gender only.

So if that is the case then "it is natural" and I will not discriminate against them or anyone ever.

Sorry gotta dash.

hf
 Quoting: Amazed Continually! 1190661


I had to take some time out to think about this. I know about the argument by some that the God of OT and the God of NT are two different Gods based on how He acts. The laws in Leviticus, the orders to annihilate whole cities including women and children, the killing of children to force the release of Jews from Egypt, etc. it all doesn't seem like the loving God Jesus told us about. As a Christian, I really have a hard time believing this. I simply can't. It would mean the destruction of the foundation of Christianity.

So yes, I see your argument. I wonder too why, if homosexuality is a sin, some are born with this inclination? Personally I'm not satisfied with the idea that we cannot and should not question God. That's ridiculous. The Father Jesus told us about told us to seek, to ask and to believe before seeing. Well, I believe there is an answer. I don't know what it is but it's there. We just have to search.

Now while we search, I really don't feel comfortable with Christians using the Scriptures as justification for hatred of homosexuals. It just doesn't make sense. While I have plenty of friends who find the Scriptures acceptable and who do not question whether or not they make sense, I'm not like that. It is my belief that I am meant to understand. That I am meant to hear and see the sense should I so wish.

Those who have ears and those who have eyes.... One priest told me that I am intentionally refusing to see and hear. That I have little faith. He quoted Christ to me..."Oh ye of little faith..." But I felt like he'd given me the standard blow off that those who are at a loss of words give others. Basically saying that something is wrong with me if I don't get it. Well, the God that I'm 100% sure exists would never forsake me or any of his creation in the same manner. Need I say more? The basis of Christianity is that God loved us so much he sacrificed his only Son. That means He loved me and every other sinner out there. So there is a contradiction when we pick out homosexuals (whose "sin" is obvious and visible) to be the only category that we will not accept.

We have accepted thieves. We find it in our Hearst to forgive them. We have accepted fornicators, we forgive them too. Adulterers, malicious and envious people. All we ask of them is to repent and then we assume they've changed for the better. The difference with homosexuals is that they are saying they don't want to hide anymore. They are tired of pretending they are not homosexual. They are telling us that this is not as clear as stealing, committing adultery, fornicating, etc.
 Quoting: Nefertiti


Hi Nef, you are right to question things because afterall GOD gave you a questioning mind.

GOD is omniscient! Therefore he knows all things past, present and future! His omniscience meant that GOD knew that we would "eat of the fruit" thus making us knowleageable.

He wouldn't have put the tree there, knowing we would eat, if he hadn't meant us to eat.

BUT you aren't questioning GOD.

You are questioning the Bible and the horrendous things it says about GOD. You are questioning the lies told about GOD in churches. You are questioning the garbage believed by so called followers.

ANYTHING THAT UNDERMINES GOD'S LOVE AND OMNISCIENCE IS WRONG!

So when a priest says you lack faith he is wrong, and fails a simple test. You have a greater aim than simplistic faith... keep going.

Did some ancient tribes allegedly throw virgins into volcanoes to appease the volcano GOD?

Did they have belief in the volcano GOD? YES! Did they have faith? YES! Did they have faith & belief that their actions and prayers would work? YES!

Were they correct? NO!

So faith and belief are really at the kindergarten end of spirituality. It is your knowleage and understanding that will drive your spirituality.

GOD gave us an analytical mind. As it is a gift from GOD I think GOD would want us to use it fully!

Now back to the homosexuality issue. Nobody really has to think too hard on that topic.

All Christians have to do is simply accept people are different. They should stop calling it a sin. They should stop the oppression.

Homosexuals could assist by acting less flamboyantly and being a little less over the top. I don't want to see men and women kissing and all over each other everywhere I go. I also don't want to see homosexuals kissing and all over each other wherever I go.

If we all just stepped back and were reasonable there would be know problem.

What happens in the bedroom is private and should stay in the bedroom.

For your own sake... Don't let anyone close down your analytical mind. GOD gave it to you so cherish it and use it!

Lastly, when studying the Bible, learn to STOP at parts that just don't sound GODly. If in your analysis "GOD wouldn't agree with something" you will usually be correct!

Place verses relating the same events together on a word document and compare the discrepancies. I showed that in the Passover comments I made here.

Thread: Christianity is PAGAN. (Page 4)

All these believers who take the Bible as absolute fact are actually failing GOD.

GOD doesn't condone infanticide, mass murder, ethnic cleansing, cutting off hands, rape, stoning, slavery, war crimes or any other atrocities.

It is that simple!

I have put many links to many of my posts in a few posts on this thread. If you have the time please read them. Hopefully you will understand why I explain things the way I do.

Thread: Have you Noticed an Infestation of the demonic lately here on GLP? (Page 2)

My advice to you... KEEP THINKING! YOU ARE ALREADY FURTHER ADVANCED THAN OTHERS WHO WILL CRITICIZE YOU!

GOOD luck!

ohyeah
Nefertiti (OP)

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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Thanks, Amazed. I will definitely read those threads. Still going through the Paul one.

I stumbled on thread about God's name:

Thread: GOD IS NOT HIS NAME

One of the posters links a discussion by Rabbis in which they define the word "stranger" used often in Leviticus. Someone argues that ALL the Mosaic laws were given specifically to the children of Israel and that we are therefore, as Gentiles, not expected to adhere to them. Strangers are defined as non-Jews who convert voluntarily, and not Gentiles. And truly, God does address the Children of Israel. This makes sense when you consider that Christians eat pork, or aren't prohibited from doing so. It makes sense when you realize that we don't follow the Kosher laws, or circumcise our boys at 6 days old. Christians practically ignore most of the laws laid down in Leviticus. Scavengers of the bottom of the sea = shellfish. We eat shrimp, prawns, lobster and crab.

Why is this interesting? What has it got to do with homosexuality?

Firstly, Jesus said He did not come to change the law. But who was He talking to exactly? The Pharisees and his followers, Jews. As such, this means that homosexuality laws in the OT are specific to Jews. This statement by Jesus doesn't change the target audience - the children of Israel.

So if one ignores OT laws on homosexuality, this leaves us with only Paul. Paul was addressing Gentiles in his letters but from what standpoint? In other words, what was Paul referencing if not the existing laws in Leviticus and other OT books? Paul sets out to provide a practical basis upon which Christians can live their lives. He "explains" what Jesus meant. But he had to reference the old laws for he had nothing else to base Jesus' teachings on.

If modern day Rabbis are of the opinion that those very laws were specifically for Jewish people, then Paul basically exported what he wanted (or what made sense to him) from the Torah. After all, as a Pharisee, Paul was seriously educated in Jewish Doctrine. But these "strangers" Paul addressed were not converts of Judaism!!! They never voluntarily converted!!! Therefore they were not, are not and shall never be subject to Mosaic Law. (By the way, when Moses took the Jews out of Egypt, many non-Jews went with them. Those strangers had to voluntarily convert and then follow the law eg. Passover rituals precisely for them to become Jews. It was those "strangers" God kept referring to and explains how they come under the law in the OT.)

So what did Jesus say on the matter of homosexuality? Nothing, if it is true that we, Gentiles, do not fall under the law as Jews do. (I need to explore this further of course. And I would welcome any counter arguments). Paul's teachings on this issue, while still valid for the Jew, are being taken out of context. The more I read about Paul, the more I'm beginning to see him as a real person who in a bid to spread the good news may have been over enthusiastic and flawed. Just like modern day evangelists, it is quite possible and even probable that Paul interpreted things in own way and therefore is not to be taken as wholesale truth. Unlike Peter and the other disciples who actually quoted Jesus' own words, Paul never spoke or met the man. Simply stating that he had visions cannot qualify Paul, especially when some of what he says isn't in line with Jesus' own teachings.

Note: I tried to discuss this with a friend yesterday. She told me that when we study the Bible we will find lots of loopholes. But then she seemed to suggest not studying these things too much. So thanks for the encouragement. It is rare to find people who actually question what they are being taught and who don't feel farther from God because of this. And yes, it is the Bible that I'm questioning, our traditional interpretation that makes me uncomfortable, not the existence of God.
Nam Marine
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Damn....You assholes are thick !
Homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord !
Nefertiti (OP)

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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Damn....You assholes are thick !
Homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord !

 Quoting: Nam Marine 39218994


How do you know this exactly?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Damn....You assholes are thick !
Homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord !

 Quoting: Nam Marine 39218994


Well if that is the case so are

Women who wear any clothes that could be said pertaineth to a man

Deuteronomy 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so [are] abomination unto the LORD thy God.

OOps women, no slacks, no shirts, no shoes, no sandals, no socks, no belts, no hats, OOPS women mat as well be naked...

Now men you can't wear dresses, should we kill all Scottish men.. A kilt might be considered a dress to a man who wears pants.. 1rof1

Deuteronomy 25:16 (But) thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

For all that do such things, (and) all that do unrighteously, (are) an abomination unto the LORD thy God.


So every human who has done anything wrong, making themselves unrighteous are abominations also. Any one righteous enough to be a non-abomination? 1rof1

Human sacrifice is an abomination to the Lord... and rightly so...

Deuteronomy 12:31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

OOPS no it isn't, sorry I spoke too soon

Judges 11:30-31 And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,

Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.


Now who should come from the doors of the house on his return but his only child, his daughter!

Judges 11:34 And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she (was his) only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.

So did he go through with the burnt offering sacrifice to the LORD? He sure did!

Judges 11:39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her (according) to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,

Why didn't GOD say "NO it is OK" I don't need your daughter as a human sacrifice?

Proverbs 6:16-19 These six (things) doth the LORD hate: yea, seven (are) an abomination unto him:

A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

A false witness (that) speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.


How dare you show a proud look when you are proud of doing something wonderful.

Show me a person who says they haven't lied, (using their tongue), and I'll show you a liar. We are all abominations.

Those people who write or make films using their wicked imaginations are abominations.

BUT wait MOSES is also an abomination

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."

Moses changes "stubborn and rebellious" by adding "a glutton and a drunkard", thereby bearing FALSE WITNESS!

Moses is an abomination.

I think I have made my point... So if everyone has lied and been unrighteous then we are all abominations as well.

Shucks!

ohyeah
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 09:41 AM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Thanks, Amazed. I will definitely read those threads. Still going through the Paul one.

I stumbled on thread about God's name:

Thread: GOD IS NOT HIS NAME

One of the posters links a discussion by Rabbis in which they define the word "stranger" used often in Leviticus. Someone argues that ALL the Mosaic laws were given specifically to the children of Israel and that we are therefore, as Gentiles, not expected to adhere to them. Strangers are defined as non-Jews who convert voluntarily, and not Gentiles. And truly, God does address the Children of Israel. This makes sense when you consider that Christians eat pork, or aren't prohibited from doing so. It makes sense when you realize that we don't follow the Kosher laws, or circumcise our boys at 6 days old. Christians practically ignore most of the laws laid down in Leviticus. Scavengers of the bottom of the sea = shellfish. We eat shrimp, prawns, lobster and crab.

Why is this interesting? What has it got to do with homosexuality?

Firstly, Jesus said He did not come to change the law. But who was He talking to exactly? The Pharisees and his followers, Jews. As such, this means that homosexuality laws in the OT are specific to Jews. This statement by Jesus doesn't change the target audience - the children of Israel.

So if one ignores OT laws on homosexuality, this leaves us with only Paul. Paul was addressing Gentiles in his letters but from what standpoint? In other words, what was Paul referencing if not the existing laws in Leviticus and other OT books? Paul sets out to provide a practical basis upon which Christians can live their lives. He "explains" what Jesus meant. But he had to reference the old laws for he had nothing else to base Jesus' teachings on.

If modern day Rabbis are of the opinion that those very laws were specifically for Jewish people, then Paul basically exported what he wanted (or what made sense to him) from the Torah. After all, as a Pharisee, Paul was seriously educated in Jewish Doctrine. But these "strangers" Paul addressed were not converts of Judaism!!! They never voluntarily converted!!! Therefore they were not, are not and shall never be subject to Mosaic Law. (By the way, when Moses took the Jews out of Egypt, many non-Jews went with them. Those strangers had to voluntarily convert and then follow the law eg. Passover rituals precisely for them to become Jews. It was those "strangers" God kept referring to and explains how they come under the law in the OT.)

So what did Jesus say on the matter of homosexuality? Nothing, if it is true that we, Gentiles, do not fall under the law as Jews do. (I need to explore this further of course. And I would welcome any counter arguments). Paul's teachings on this issue, while still valid for the Jew, are being taken out of context. The more I read about Paul, the more I'm beginning to see him as a real person who in a bid to spread the good news may have been over enthusiastic and flawed. Just like modern day evangelists, it is quite possible and even probable that Paul interpreted things in own way and therefore is not to be taken as wholesale truth. Unlike Peter and the other disciples who actually quoted Jesus' own words, Paul never spoke or met the man. Simply stating that he had visions cannot qualify Paul, especially when some of what he says isn't in line with Jesus' own teachings.

Note: I tried to discuss this with a friend yesterday. She told me that when we study the Bible we will find lots of loopholes. But then she seemed to suggest not studying these things too much. So thanks for the encouragement. It is rare to find people who actually question what they are being taught and who don't feel farther from God because of this. And yes, it is the Bible that I'm questioning, our traditional interpretation that makes me uncomfortable, not the existence of God.
 Quoting: Nefertiti


Those darn loopholes Nef... What your friend is saying without realising it is "That God wasn't clever enough to exclude loopholes in what believers call the inerrant GOD's word".

Amazing!

I'll get back to you on the other stuff... I was expecting some criticism of you on this post and I'll show you where later.

I agree with you.. but remember we are questioning whether believers hate and discriminate against homosexuals, and in questioning we are also questioning false teachings and indoctrination.

Beware... a believer armed with no knowledge...

lolsign
Nefertiti (OP)

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05/04/2013 11:12 AM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Do you know the most common accusation levied against Christians by Muslim clerics? They say we change our beliefs according to our needs. They cite the numerous translations of the Bible to the point that we have several interpretations at variance with each other. They accuse us of being the worst kind of fundamentalists who historically attempted to annihilate entire people's in the name of Jesus. They also say that we completely distorted who Jesus was and what he represented. That we continually mess up His message.

My standard response is that the Crusades happened a long time ago. Granted many a man used Christianity for his own purposes, so I ask them to explain to me why in the world they are being extremist in the 21st century? But even so, they have a point. We pick and choose what to believe, which Biblical rules to follow according to what? How many Christians actually read the Bible for continuity rather than some verses that have been chosen purposefully to explain a concept? It used to be that one needed to know Latin and how to read and write to understand it. So we all depended on the clergy. Those days are gone but people just won't read it for themselves.

People should read the Bible, the whole Bible and then pray and ask for guidance. And one must ask the clergy what it is they learn in Theology. it is amazing how many of the "miraculous" events are practically debunked. Ask somebody who spends hours and hours studying this stuff. Did Moses perform the miracles in Egypt? That's a great starting point. (And a great thread, LOL).

I think the true mark of a Christian is one who acknowledges that there are "loopholes". One who searches for wisdom but continually admits that while he/she may know much, they actually know nothing. That is the seeker's approach. The opposite is to be like a sheep. There but for the Grace of God go I...springs to mind.

sigh
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2013 11:12 AM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Yes, I am very much different. I am no sodomite.
Nefertiti (OP)

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05/04/2013 11:42 AM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Damn....You assholes are thick !
Homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord !

 Quoting: Nam Marine 39218994


Well if that is the case so are

Women who wear any clothes that could be said pertaineth to a man

Deuteronomy 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so [are] abomination unto the LORD thy God.

OOps women, no slacks, no shirts, no shoes, no sandals, no socks, no belts, no hats, OOPS women mat as well be naked...

Now men you can't wear dresses, should we kill all Scottish men.. A kilt might be considered a dress to a man who wears pants.. 1rof1

Deuteronomy 25:16 (But) thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

For all that do such things, (and) all that do unrighteously, (are) an abomination unto the LORD thy God.


So every human who has done anything wrong, making themselves unrighteous are abominations also. Any one righteous enough to be a non-abomination? 1rof1

Human sacrifice is an abomination to the Lord... and rightly so...

Deuteronomy 12:31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

OOPS no it isn't, sorry I spoke too soon

Judges 11:30-31 And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,

Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.


Now who should come from the doors of the house on his return but his only child, his daughter!

Judges 11:34 And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she (was his) only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.

So did he go through with the burnt offering sacrifice to the LORD? He sure did!

Judges 11:39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her (according) to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,

Why didn't GOD say "NO it is OK" I don't need your daughter as a human sacrifice?

Proverbs 6:16-19 These six (things) doth the LORD hate: yea, seven (are) an abomination unto him:

A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

A false witness (that) speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.


How dare you show a proud look when you are proud of doing something wonderful.

Show me a person who says they haven't lied, (using their tongue), and I'll show you a liar. We are all abominations.

Those people who write or make films using their wicked imaginations are abominations.

BUT wait MOSES is also an abomination

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."

Moses changes "stubborn and rebellious" by adding "a glutton and a drunkard", thereby bearing FALSE WITNESS!

Moses is an abomination.

I think I have made my point... So if everyone has lied and been unrighteous then we are all abominations as well.

Shucks!

ohyeah
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


I doubt that he/she can hear you and process what you're saying. In fact I would bet my life on it. Sadly, there are categories of human beings whose very lives depend on such people "understanding" things. How can someone put the words "Lord" and asshole in the same argument and claim to be Christian? Honestly, it is ridiculous how little people know and comprehend simple rules.

DO NOT JUDGE, LEST YOU BE JUDGED

Matthew 7:1-2
1Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Romans 2:1
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.


1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.



DO NOT TAKE THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN.


"God was saying for them not to use His name like the nations used the names of their gods. He did not want them to use His name to invoke false authority behind pronouncements. In essence, God did not want the Israelites to say that He said something that He had not said."

[link to www.reclaimingthemind.org]

Nam, what exactly did God say? What did Jesus say?
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2013 11:44 AM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
My country has been in the news for wanting to kill homosexuals. The facts are:

1) A single Member of Parliament drafted a Private Member's Bill that called for all manner of things against homosexuals. It isn't a government position.

2) Most Ugandans could care less about this Bill or about who is homosexual since it doesn't affect their daily lives.

3) A certain group of homosexual organizations have taken it upon themselves to "educate" children here about the what, how and why of homosexuality. In response, certain Christian groups and parents have launched a counter campaign.

I'm hetero. I have a couple of homosexual friends. I don't really like to think about what they do and I'm not comfortable with tv series where men kiss men. Being a woman, I'm repelled by the idea that a woman will hit on me. So personally, I wouldn't tell my kids that homosexuality is an option.

Does that mean we should discriminate against them? Should we be bullying them? Are they morally bankrupt compared to heteros? I don't think so. Most rape, pedophelia and deviant non consensual sex is committed by heterosexuals. So if someone is gay or lesbian, it doesn't mean that they are automatically deviant. Judging by some people's hatred, you would think they have never met a gay man or lesbian. If you know any, you'd find that they are human beings like the rest of us. In fact, if you found your son is gay, you'd quickly discover that this is more complicated than simply labeling them deviant.

The only thing that points to homosexuality as being immoral is Religion. But it also states a number of things that are immoral but that we "allow" to happen. Adultery, fornication, lust, envy....you name it. Where do we get off "hating" homosexuals? How do we justify giving this "sin" more weight than the others? If the wages of sin...is death, then we are all doomed, homosexual or not. We are all sinners. How are we different from homosexuals?
 Quoting: Nefertiti

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female (Matt. 19:4)

Gays and gay sympathizers charge God, Jesus, the living Word (John 1:1, 14) with "labeling them." All the wicked, lying antichrists (i.e. all deniers of Jesus Christ, 1 John 2:22), pedophiles, murderers and such like charge God with this.

According to God, engaging in homosexuality is a particularly egregious perversion of God's holy creation.

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? (Rom . 9:20)

God says engaging in homosexuality is a vile (Rom 1:27), profane (1 Tim 1:10) abomination (Lev 18:22, 20:13) that will preclude inheritance of the kingdom of God (1 Cor 6:9), and bring the wrath of God upon society (Jude 1:7).

A follower of Christ is to tell practicing homosexuals God's truth in love, but without shame (Mark 8:38). The wicked find God's truth to be 'discriminating.'

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. (John 3:20)

Ellen DeGeneres Illuminati


Nefertiti (OP)

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05/04/2013 11:45 AM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
Thanks, Amazed. I will definitely read those threads. Still going through the Paul one.

I stumbled on thread about God's name:

Thread: GOD IS NOT HIS NAME

One of the posters links a discussion by Rabbis in which they define the word "stranger" used often in Leviticus. Someone argues that ALL the Mosaic laws were given specifically to the children of Israel and that we are therefore, as Gentiles, not expected to adhere to them. Strangers are defined as non-Jews who convert voluntarily, and not Gentiles. And truly, God does address the Children of Israel. This makes sense when you consider that Christians eat pork, or aren't prohibited from doing so. It makes sense when you realize that we don't follow the Kosher laws, or circumcise our boys at 6 days old. Christians practically ignore most of the laws laid down in Leviticus. Scavengers of the bottom of the sea = shellfish. We eat shrimp, prawns, lobster and crab.

Why is this interesting? What has it got to do with homosexuality?

Firstly, Jesus said He did not come to change the law. But who was He talking to exactly? The Pharisees and his followers, Jews. As such, this means that homosexuality laws in the OT are specific to Jews. This statement by Jesus doesn't change the target audience - the children of Israel.

So if one ignores OT laws on homosexuality, this leaves us with only Paul. Paul was addressing Gentiles in his letters but from what standpoint? In other words, what was Paul referencing if not the existing laws in Leviticus and other OT books? Paul sets out to provide a practical basis upon which Christians can live their lives. He "explains" what Jesus meant. But he had to reference the old laws for he had nothing else to base Jesus' teachings on.

If modern day Rabbis are of the opinion that those very laws were specifically for Jewish people, then Paul basically exported what he wanted (or what made sense to him) from the Torah. After all, as a Pharisee, Paul was seriously educated in Jewish Doctrine. But these "strangers" Paul addressed were not converts of Judaism!!! They never voluntarily converted!!! Therefore they were not, are not and shall never be subject to Mosaic Law. (By the way, when Moses took the Jews out of Egypt, many non-Jews went with them. Those strangers had to voluntarily convert and then follow the law eg. Passover rituals precisely for them to become Jews. It was those "strangers" God kept referring to and explains how they come under the law in the OT.)

So what did Jesus say on the matter of homosexuality? Nothing, if it is true that we, Gentiles, do not fall under the law as Jews do. (I need to explore this further of course. And I would welcome any counter arguments). Paul's teachings on this issue, while still valid for the Jew, are being taken out of context. The more I read about Paul, the more I'm beginning to see him as a real person who in a bid to spread the good news may have been over enthusiastic and flawed. Just like modern day evangelists, it is quite possible and even probable that Paul interpreted things in own way and therefore is not to be taken as wholesale truth. Unlike Peter and the other disciples who actually quoted Jesus' own words, Paul never spoke or met the man. Simply stating that he had visions cannot qualify Paul, especially when some of what he says isn't in line with Jesus' own teachings.

Note: I tried to discuss this with a friend yesterday. She told me that when we study the Bible we will find lots of loopholes. But then she seemed to suggest not studying these things too much. So thanks for the encouragement. It is rare to find people who actually question what they are being taught and who don't feel farther from God because of this. And yes, it is the Bible that I'm questioning, our traditional interpretation that makes me uncomfortable, not the existence of God.
 Quoting: Nefertiti


Those darn loopholes Nef... What your friend is saying without realising it is "That God wasn't clever enough to exclude loopholes in what believers call the inerrant GOD's word".

Amazing!

I'll get back to you on the other stuff... I was expecting some criticism of you on this post and I'll show you where later.

I agree with you.. but remember we are questioning whether believers hate and discriminate against homosexuals, and in questioning we are also questioning false teachings and indoctrination.

Beware... a believer armed with no knowledge...

lolsign
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


lol
Amazed Continually!
User ID: 1190661
Australia
05/05/2013 08:28 AM
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Re: Christians, Why hate Homosexuals? Are you any different?
My country has been in the news for wanting to kill homosexuals. The facts are:

1) A single Member of Parliament drafted a Private Member's Bill that called for all manner of things against homosexuals. It isn't a government position.

2) Most Ugandans could care less about this Bill or about who is homosexual since it doesn't affect their daily lives.

3) A certain group of homosexual organizations have taken it upon themselves to "educate" children here about the what, how and why of homosexuality. In response, certain Christian groups and parents have launched a counter campaign.

I'm hetero. I have a couple of homosexual friends. I don't really like to think about what they do and I'm not comfortable with tv series where men kiss men. Being a woman, I'm repelled by the idea that a woman will hit on me. So personally, I wouldn't tell my kids that homosexuality is an option.

Does that mean we should discriminate against them? Should we be bullying them? Are they morally bankrupt compared to heteros? I don't think so. Most rape, pedophelia and deviant non consensual sex is committed by heterosexuals. So if someone is gay or lesbian, it doesn't mean that they are automatically deviant. Judging by some people's hatred, you would think they have never met a gay man or lesbian. If you know any, you'd find that they are human beings like the rest of us. In fact, if you found your son is gay, you'd quickly discover that this is more complicated than simply labeling them deviant.

The only thing that points to homosexuality as being immoral is Religion. But it also states a number of things that are immoral but that we "allow" to happen. Adultery, fornication, lust, envy....you name it. Where do we get off "hating" homosexuals? How do we justify giving this "sin" more weight than the others? If the wages of sin...is death, then we are all doomed, homosexual or not. We are all sinners. How are we different from homosexuals?
 Quoting: Nefertiti

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female (Matt. 19:4)

Gays and gay sympathizers charge God, Jesus, the living Word (John 1:1, 14) with "labeling them." All the wicked, lying antichrists (i.e. all deniers of Jesus Christ, 1 John 2:22), pedophiles, murderers and such like charge God with this.

According to God, engaging in homosexuality is a particularly egregious perversion of God's holy creation.

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? (Rom . 9:20)

God says engaging in homosexuality is a vile (Rom 1:27), profane (1 Tim 1:10) abomination (Lev 18:22, 20:13) that will preclude inheritance of the kingdom of God (1 Cor 6:9), and bring the wrath of God upon society (Jude 1:7).

A follower of Christ is to tell practicing homosexuals God's truth in love, but without shame (Mark 8:38). The wicked find God's truth to be 'discriminating.'

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. (John 3:20)

Ellen DeGeneres Illuminati



 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39119934


Wow! You certainly are great at throwing accusations around, I hope you aren't bearing false witness by calling people antichrists...

I wonder what repercussions accusing people of being antichrists falsely are?

Have you never sinned? You are very rare!

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Perhaps you should remove the mote from your own eye first.

Luke 6:42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

So where does your hate and bigotry come from? GOD or you?

The wrath on society never happened. There was a lot of homosexuality in Paul the Oppressor's time, so is Paul lying?

Why did you misrepresent this verse... Are you a liar or just a deceiver?

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Where does Jesus say to tell "God's truth in love" to homosexuals, oh person who hasn't sinned?

What generation? There have been many generations since Jesus.

Why are you twisting the BIBLE to suit your bigotry?

Hang your head in shame. Jesus never gave you permission to call people antichrists!

Any sins to report oh perfect one?

ohyeah

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