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HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?

 
NOLAButterfly
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05/03/2013 08:09 AM
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HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
I'm sure many of us are aware of the Russo Documentary on the subject that there is no law that could be found stating that you HAVE to pay taxes... and Sherry Jackson is one of many of our heroes, who also put her life on the line exposing this, but is it true?

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

BUT, someone just posted this on a facebook debate...

[link to docs.law.gwu.edu]

HELP!!! Can someone please clarify this issue for me once and for all?

wtfwtf

Last Edited by NOLAButterfly on 05/03/2013 08:10 AM
Remember- GOD WINS!
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:11 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
of course its true.

taxes are akin to slavery.
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:12 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
They are as legal as a mafia mob boss.



The result in not complying is similar
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:13 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
the only way you have a right not to be forced to pay taxes is if you claim the right, fight for it using any means necessary and win!
Frank Frankson

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05/03/2013 08:14 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Just ask Wesley Snipes.
NOLAButterfly (OP)

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05/03/2013 08:16 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
RIGHT, but how do you explain that this person FOUND the law that supposedly doesn't exist? I need to be able to explain/understand it in a way I can defend it... and it DOES seem like there IS a law after all...

AGAIN:

[link to docs.law.gwu.edu]
Remember- GOD WINS!
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:19 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
RIGHT, but how do you explain that this person FOUND the law that supposedly doesn't exist? I need to be able to explain/understand it in a way I can defend it... and it DOES seem like there IS a law after all...

AGAIN:

[link to docs.law.gwu.edu]
 Quoting: NOLAButterfly


no that means there is a law that forces you under penalty to file your returns.

it doesn't mean you have to pay it.

besides why don't you just pay the tax with an IOU?
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:20 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Only (14th amendment) citizens have to pay taxes.

That's why the govt wants those "illegal aliens" to become U.S. citizens, otherwise they can't tax them and collect other revenue for speeding or not wearing a seat belt etc...
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:21 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Just ask Wesley Snipes.
 Quoting: Frank Frankson


yet he somehow made a movie while in jail
Hollywood make believe
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:22 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Only (14th amendment) citizens have to pay taxes.

That's why the govt wants those "illegal aliens" to become U.S. citizens, otherwise they can't tax them and collect other revenue for speeding or not wearing a seat belt etc...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39257684


exactly a citizen is the title of a specific group of people.

its a voluntary commitment to be a citizen.

being born does not involuntarily make you a citizen.
BRIEF
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05/03/2013 08:23 AM

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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Yes, they are legal. There is wording in the constitution that gives government the right to tax as they see fit...the founding fathers left it vague because they couldn't possibly anticipate all the needs of the government, but they didn't intend on the country turning socialist.

Last Edited by BRIEF on 05/03/2013 08:24 AM
With freedom comes responsibility.

Heterosexual pride!

Briefcut4892
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05/03/2013 08:24 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
People who seriously believe that there are no laws requiring you to pay taxes in the US are stupid. Or crazy. Or both.

These crazy libertarians/survivalists believe that they shouldn't pay taxes but then they are quite happy to use all the infrastructures built and managed by the state. Even if they live self-sufficiently, they still use roads and shits like that...


Fucking greedy paranoid nutjobs who think they are above the needs of the community.
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:26 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Yes, they are legal. There is wording in the constitution that gives government the right to tax as they see fit...the founding fathers left it vague because they couldn't possibly anticipate all the needs of the government, but they didn't intend on the country turning socialist.
 Quoting: BRIEF


People who seriously believe that there are no laws requiring you to pay taxes in the US are stupid. Or crazy. Or both.

These crazy libertarians/survivalists believe that they shouldn't pay taxes but then they are quite happy to use all the infrastructures built and managed by the state. Even if they live self-sufficiently, they still use roads and shits like that...


Fucking greedy paranoid nutjobs who think they are above the needs of the community.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


the two unpaid shills have arrived.

regurgitating what they have been told.

and attaching emotion of disgust to the notion that you think.
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:29 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
the two unpaid shills have arrived.

regurgitating what they have been told.

and attaching emotion of disgust to the notion that you think.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39260624


You are stupid too if you can't understand the notion of "social contract" that was described by Rousseau but existed for far longer.

If you think you are above the community you live in and that you shouldn't follow rules to participate in it, go the fuck become an hermit somewhere you'll be alone without the rest of society to bother you.

Stupid people who can't understand how societies work. So smug yet so stupid.
BRIEF
Rebel with morals

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05/03/2013 08:29 AM

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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Yes, they are legal. There is wording in the constitution that gives government the right to tax as they see fit...the founding fathers left it vague because they couldn't possibly anticipate all the needs of the government, but they didn't intend on the country turning socialist.
 Quoting: BRIEF


People who seriously believe that there are no laws requiring you to pay taxes in the US are stupid. Or crazy. Or both.

These crazy libertarians/survivalists believe that they shouldn't pay taxes but then they are quite happy to use all the infrastructures built and managed by the state. Even if they live self-sufficiently, they still use roads and shits like that...


Fucking greedy paranoid nutjobs who think they are above the needs of the community.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


the two unpaid shills have arrived.

regurgitating what they have been told.

and attaching emotion of disgust to the notion that you think.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39260624


Have you ever read the constitution? It's in there if you want to comb through it, but at the end of the day, you do have to pay taxes or you will suffer the consequences.
With freedom comes responsibility.

Heterosexual pride!

Briefcut4892
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05/03/2013 08:29 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
People who seriously believe that there are no laws requiring you to pay taxes in the US are stupid. Or crazy. Or both.

These crazy libertarians/survivalists believe that they shouldn't pay taxes but then they are quite happy to use all the infrastructures built and managed by the state. Even if they live self-sufficiently, they still use roads and shits like that...


Fucking greedy paranoid nutjobs who think they are above the needs of the community.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


fucking greedy communists who think their community is above the needs of the individual.
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:30 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Yes, they are legal. There is wording in the constitution that gives government the right to tax as they see fit...the founding fathers left it vague because they couldn't possibly anticipate all the needs of the government, but they didn't intend on the country turning socialist.
 Quoting: BRIEF


Check Article One, Section Eight, Paragraph One of the U.S. Constitution and get back to us on what you find.
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:31 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
People who seriously believe that there are no laws requiring you to pay taxes in the US are stupid. Or crazy. Or both.

These crazy libertarians/survivalists believe that they shouldn't pay taxes but then they are quite happy to use all the infrastructures built and managed by the state. Even if they live self-sufficiently, they still use roads and shits like that...


Fucking greedy paranoid nutjobs who think they are above the needs of the community.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


fucking greedy communists who think their community is above the needs of the individual.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39260624


You are so stupid you don't even understand the needs of the community are the needs of a sum of individuals.
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:33 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Yes, they are legal. There is wording in the constitution that gives government the right to tax as they see fit...the founding fathers left it vague because they couldn't possibly anticipate all the needs of the government, but they didn't intend on the country turning socialist.
 Quoting: BRIEF


People who seriously believe that there are no laws requiring you to pay taxes in the US are stupid. Or crazy. Or both.

These crazy libertarians/survivalists believe that they shouldn't pay taxes but then they are quite happy to use all the infrastructures built and managed by the state. Even if they live self-sufficiently, they still use roads and shits like that...


Fucking greedy paranoid nutjobs who think they are above the needs of the community.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


the two unpaid shills have arrived.

regurgitating what they have been told.

and attaching emotion of disgust to the notion that you think.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39260624


Have you ever read the constitution? It's in there if you want to comb through it, but at the end of the day, you do have to pay taxes or you will suffer the consequences.
 Quoting: BRIEF


yes I have been through it with a fine comb. a badly worded legal document always sides with the contractee not the contractor.

besides the constitution has nothing to do with it. the constitution was written for a corporation called the united states of America.

now just because you live on the land mass called America and just because the corporation name coincidently uses the name of the land doesn't automatically mean you are an employee of said corporation or that you are subsequently forced to abide by its rule.
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:34 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
People who seriously believe that there are no laws requiring you to pay taxes in the US are stupid. Or crazy. Or both.

These crazy libertarians/survivalists believe that they shouldn't pay taxes but then they are quite happy to use all the infrastructures built and managed by the state. Even if they live self-sufficiently, they still use roads and shits like that...


Fucking greedy paranoid nutjobs who think they are above the needs of the community.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


fucking greedy communists who think their community is above the needs of the individual.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39260624


You are so stupid you don't even understand the needs of the community are the needs of a sum of individuals.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


that's irrelevant.

you can't force someone to be part of a community.
SteamrolledGobias

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05/03/2013 08:35 AM

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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
There are laws but they are invalid and unconstitutional.

state/local town taxes are much more reasonable and I would want to pay back to help my town. But Federal IRS taxes are 100% illegal and unconstitutional. I feel this thread has a lot more information:

Thread: The IRS is an ILLEGAL institution - PROOF

Last Edited by SteamrolledGobias on 05/03/2013 08:35 AM
BRIEF
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05/03/2013 08:35 AM

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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Yes, they are legal. There is wording in the constitution that gives government the right to tax as they see fit...the founding fathers left it vague because they couldn't possibly anticipate all the needs of the government, but they didn't intend on the country turning socialist.
 Quoting: BRIEF


People who seriously believe that there are no laws requiring you to pay taxes in the US are stupid. Or crazy. Or both.

These crazy libertarians/survivalists believe that they shouldn't pay taxes but then they are quite happy to use all the infrastructures built and managed by the state. Even if they live self-sufficiently, they still use roads and shits like that...


Fucking greedy paranoid nutjobs who think they are above the needs of the community.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


the two unpaid shills have arrived.

regurgitating what they have been told.

and attaching emotion of disgust to the notion that you think.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39260624


Have you ever read the constitution? It's in there if you want to comb through it, but at the end of the day, you do have to pay taxes or you will suffer the consequences.
 Quoting: BRIEF


yes I have been through it with a fine comb. a badly worded legal document always sides with the contractee not the contractor.

besides the constitution has nothing to do with it. the constitution was written for a corporation called the united states of America.

now just because you live on the land mass called America and just because the corporation name coincidently uses the name of the land doesn't automatically mean you are an employee of said corporation or that you are subsequently forced to abide by its rule.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39260624


1rof1
With freedom comes responsibility.

Heterosexual pride!

Briefcut4892
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05/03/2013 08:35 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
People who seriously believe that there are no laws requiring you to pay taxes in the US are stupid. Or crazy. Or both.

These crazy libertarians/survivalists believe that they shouldn't pay taxes but then they are quite happy to use all the infrastructures built and managed by the state. Even if they live self-sufficiently, they still use roads and shits like that...


Fucking greedy paranoid nutjobs who think they are above the needs of the community.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


You're the typical european marxist scum...

The marxist income tax is by definition slavery, and in this case it's voluntary slavery which is NOT illegal, so yes there is a legal/commercial man made "law" that requires PERSONS/CITIZENS to pay income tax to the government they work for because citizens are considered employees of the corporate government and therefore taxable. They signed a contract and voluntary servitude was not outlawed, it's all legal.

Income taxes go directly to the international banksters (FED, IMF, UN) and never were used or intended "for the community".
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:36 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
People who seriously believe that there are no laws requiring you to pay taxes in the US are stupid. Or crazy. Or both.

These crazy libertarians/survivalists believe that they shouldn't pay taxes but then they are quite happy to use all the infrastructures built and managed by the state. Even if they live self-sufficiently, they still use roads and shits like that...


Fucking greedy paranoid nutjobs who think they are above the needs of the community.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


fucking greedy communists who think their community is above the needs of the individual.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39260624


You are so stupid you don't even understand the needs of the community are the needs of a sum of individuals.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


that's irrelevant.

you can't force someone to be part of a community.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39260624


That's why I said if you don't want to, you can always become a hermit.

But these people who don't want to pay taxes don't want to. They just are selfish. They wan't to use infrastructures but refuse to pay for it. Because they are greedy, selfish, and deluded into thinking they can do everything better than the state.
SteamrolledGobias

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05/03/2013 08:36 AM

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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Is the Internal Revenue Service (“IRS”) an organization within the U.S. Department of the Treasury?

Answer: No. The IRS is not an organization within the United States Department of the Treasury. The U.S. Department of the Treasury was organized by statutes now codified in Title 31 of the United States Code, abbreviated “31 U.S.C.” The only mention of the IRS anywhere in 31 U.S.C. §§ 301‑313 is an authorization for the President to appoint an Assistant General Counsel in the U.S. Department of the Treasury to be the Chief Counsel for the IRS. See 31 U.S.C. 301(f)(2).

At footnote 23 in the case of Chrysler Corp. v. Brown, 441 U.S. 281 (1979), the U.S. Supreme Court admitted that no organic Act for the IRS could be found, after they searched for such an Act all the way back to the Civil War, which ended in the year 1865 A.D. The Guarantee Clause in the U.S. Constitution guarantees the Rule of Law to all Americans (we are to be governed by Law and not by arbitrary bureaucrats). See Article IV, Section 4. Since there was no organic Act creating it, IRS is not a lawful organization.
 Quoting: fta


[link to www.supremelaw.org]
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:36 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
anyway the shills are here and this thread has become arbitrary, so there is little point continuing.

bottom line and no party can argue with this. if you don't want to pay the taxes then don't use money.

if you don't use money then you don't have tax.
NOLAButterfly (OP)

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05/03/2013 08:36 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
RIGHT, but how do you explain that this person FOUND the law that supposedly doesn't exist? I need to be able to explain/understand it in a way I can defend it... and it DOES seem like there IS a law after all...

AGAIN:

[link to docs.law.gwu.edu]
 Quoting: NOLAButterfly


no that means there is a law that forces you under penalty to file your returns.

it doesn't mean you have to pay it.

besides why don't you just pay the tax with an IOU?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39260624


IOU?? That would be an admission of debt... either I am required to pay it or I am not... why would I say IOU for something if I do NOT. BUT I see how filing is different than paying.
Remember- GOD WINS!
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:37 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
...


fucking greedy communists who think their community is above the needs of the individual.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39260624


You are so stupid you don't even understand the needs of the community are the needs of a sum of individuals.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


that's irrelevant.

you can't force someone to be part of a community.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39260624


That's why I said if you don't want to, you can always become a hermit.

But these people who don't want to pay taxes don't want to. They just are selfish. They wan't to use infrastructures but refuse to pay for it. Because they are greedy, selfish, and deluded into thinking they can do everything better than the state.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


is that the only alternative you propose??

be a part of THEIR/YOUR community or live on your own?

stupid idiot doesn't realise there are more options available than that.
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:38 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
You're the typical european marxist scum...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39257684


And you are the typical libertarian nutjob who doesn't understand what are taxes for.

I long for the day the US become a libertarian dream, and the country collapses because no one wants to pay taxes anymore because anyone turned uber-selfish (even more than today! can you imagine?)
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:38 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
RIGHT, but how do you explain that this person FOUND the law that supposedly doesn't exist? I need to be able to explain/understand it in a way I can defend it... and it DOES seem like there IS a law after all...

AGAIN:

[link to docs.law.gwu.edu]
 Quoting: NOLAButterfly


no that means there is a law that forces you under penalty to file your returns.

it doesn't mean you have to pay it.

besides why don't you just pay the tax with an IOU?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39260624


IOU?? That would be an admission of debt... either I am required to pay it or I am not... why would I say IOU for something if I do NOT. BUT I see how filing is different than paying.
 Quoting: NOLAButterfly


you are not required to pay something. but if you don't want to face the consequences of a corrupt government then you will be forced to do something.

just do something smart.
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2013 08:39 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
is that the only alternative you propose??

be a part of THEIR/YOUR community or live on your own?

stupid idiot doesn't realise there are more options available than that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39260624


Then enlighten us, how do you plan to be a part of a community and at the same time refusing to follow it's rules?

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