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HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?

 
Little Baby Jesus
§ Control is an Illusion §

User ID: 36900483
United States
05/03/2013 09:24 AM

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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
The question is not are Taxes legal? The question is; What happens to people who don't pay taxes and then get caught?

We all know the answer to that.

Next question...
BKK
-----------------------
"A God of the Gaps is assigned
responsibility for what we do not yet understand." Carl Sagan
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 39163888
United Kingdom
05/03/2013 09:26 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
It's no coincidence the the totalitarian E.U. headquarters are based there..

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39163888


It's no coincidence that the finance headquarters worldwide are Wall Street and London, US and UK have always been sucking bankers cocks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


The square mile in London is a sovereign state..

Try reading..
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1051099
Belgium
05/03/2013 09:28 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
It's no coincidence the the totalitarian E.U. headquarters are based there..

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39163888


It's no coincidence that the finance headquarters worldwide are Wall Street and London, US and UK have always been sucking bankers cocks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


The square mile in London is a sovereign state..

Try reading..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39163888


Of course, so they don't have to answer to any authority and can fuck you even deeper :)
talkstory

User ID: 39260296
Thailand
05/03/2013 09:29 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
The question is not are Taxes legal? The question is; What happens to people who don't pay taxes and then get caught?

We all know the answer to that.

Next question...
 Quoting: Little Baby Jesus


I know at least 80 people who work have with holding taken out and get full refunds at the end of the year. They are redeeming federal reserve note for lawful money, which makes their income untaxable. noon have gone to jail as a result or even taken to court.
talkstory
agent73

User ID: 5183852
United States
05/03/2013 09:29 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
yes, true, 16th amendment not passed the right way...HOWEVER!

No court in the land will allow that as an argument. Not valid defense.......
agent73

User ID: 5183852
United States
05/03/2013 09:30 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
The question is not are Taxes legal? The question is; What happens to people who don't pay taxes and then get caught?

We all know the answer to that.

Next question...
 Quoting: Little Baby Jesus


I know at least 80 people who work have with holding taken out and get full refunds at the end of the year. They are redeeming federal reserve note for lawful money, which makes their income untaxable. noon have gone to jail as a result or even taken to court.
 Quoting: talkstory


in thailand?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 39163888
United Kingdom
05/03/2013 09:32 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
It's no coincidence the the totalitarian E.U. headquarters are based there..

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39163888


It's no coincidence that the finance headquarters worldwide are Wall Street and London, US and UK have always been sucking bankers cocks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


The square mile in London is a sovereign state..

Try reading..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39163888


Of course, so they don't have to answer to any authority and can fuck you even deeper :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


Look Mr government lover, I don't like the banks or the government..

I don't need them..

You seem to love your EU state but not the banks..

Can you not se how the two are connected? They are in bed together..

I doubt even a Belgian is that stupid??

Or maybe you are?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36548408
United States
05/03/2013 09:32 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Their is no tax code mandating federal income tax period. The only reason people pay it is fear and our previous generations apathy, ignorance, and blind patriotism to a central government. Which spits in the face of why we had our first revolution in the first place. So now get ready for a second.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1051099
Belgium
05/03/2013 09:36 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Can you not se how the two are connected? They are in bed together..

I doubt even a Belgian is that stupid??

Or maybe you are?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39163888


If it's the case, tell me why the EU Parliament is trying to regulate the banking sector and always get vetoed by the UK?

Read this and come back to me
[link to ec.europa.eu]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 39163888
United Kingdom
05/03/2013 09:40 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Can you not se how the two are connected? They are in bed together..

I doubt even a Belgian is that stupid??

Or maybe you are?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39163888


If it's the case, tell me why the EU Parliament is trying to regulate the banking sector and always get vetoed by the UK?

Read this and come back to me
[link to ec.europa.eu]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


You really are a retard!

They are not trying to reform a thing..

It's all a show to fool stupid people like you..

The federal reserve was sold to the people as a way to regulate the banking sector..

Just because they say they are doing something doesn't mean they are, or the results of their actions will have the results they promise..

I'm bored with you now, go and stick your finger in a dyke :P
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26058272
United States
05/03/2013 09:42 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Yes, they are legal. There is wording in the constitution that gives government the right to tax as they see fit...the founding fathers left it vague because they couldn't possibly anticipate all the needs of the government, but they didn't intend on the country turning socialist.
 Quoting: BRIEF


People who seriously believe that there are no laws requiring you to pay taxes in the US are stupid. Or crazy. Or both.

These crazy libertarians/survivalists believe that they shouldn't pay taxes but then they are quite happy to use all the infrastructures built and managed by the state. Even if they live self-sufficiently, they still use roads and shits like that...


Fucking greedy paranoid nutjobs who think they are above the needs of the community.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


the two unpaid shills have arrived.

regurgitating what they have been told.

and attaching emotion of disgust to the notion that you think.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39260624:MV8yMjI0MTUzXzM3Njk5MDkxX0HavanaezAyMTJG


Suffer the consequences of what, less government? Maybe if fewer citizens paid taxes homeland security woulnt havethe budget for a billion rounds of ammo or be so flush with money that they could afford to militerize thepolice.......iamwith

Have you ever read the constitution? It's in there if you want to comb through it, but at the end of the day, you do have to pay taxes or you will suffer the consequences.
 Quoting: BRIEF
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1051099
Belgium
05/03/2013 09:43 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
You really are a retard!

They are not trying to reform a thing..


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39163888


Shows you can't read or don't want to because it could contradict you precious but fragile world view that you carefully constructed reading conspiracy site.

They are trying to reform many things, and if they got the help of the UK, they could go even further.
Coelho

User ID: 37552930
Brazil
05/03/2013 09:49 AM

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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Found this:

Amendment 16 - Status of Income Tax Clarified

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Notes for this amendment:
Proposed 7/12/1909
Ratified 2/3/1913
Article 1, Section 9

If it was possible to roll back the Constitution to the original text before the 1900 it would fix a lot of things.
the body of a rose

User ID: 13930601
United States
05/03/2013 09:53 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
do i get a fair and just representation of the exchange

Last Edited by the body of a rose on 05/03/2013 09:54 AM
the blood of a rose
ehecatl

User ID: 39264537
Mexico
05/03/2013 09:58 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
How about if they switch to a voluntary system,

...one where people who would like to make a donation to the US government if they feel so inspired,

and those who don't, don't?


1dunno1
eh, who cares what "they" do anyhow.

time to sweep the dirt floor and go feed the chickens.
talkstory

User ID: 39260296
Thailand
05/03/2013 10:03 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
The question is not are Taxes legal? The question is; What happens to people who don't pay taxes and then get caught?

We all know the answer to that.

Next question...
 Quoting: Little Baby Jesus


I know at least 80 people who work have with holding taken out and get full refunds at the end of the year. They are redeeming federal reserve note for lawful money, which makes their income untaxable. noon have gone to jail as a result or even taken to court.
 Quoting: talkstory


in thailand?
 Quoting: agent73


In the US
talkstory
Holy_Diver

User ID: 20712268
United States
05/03/2013 10:07 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
I'm just a small town, country boy. I don't have any fancy, big-city pedigrees or Universitah Diplomas. I rise with the sun, tend my crops, feed the livestock and turn in at dusk, maybe do some whittling or do some fiddling on the front porch swing with a cool glass of country time lemonade (contains no lemons).

So take my opinion for what it's worth.

Seems to me that Government requires money to provide services and pay it's workers. Since those services and workers work for us, it is only right that we pay them.

We do this in the form of Tax.

Now, the rich shouldn't have to pay more, unless they are consuming an unfair amount of services. IMO, they aren't. In fact, the poor consume the most services.

If there are six billion citizens, and each citizen paid exactly 300 dollars per year in Federal (Yes, parents would pay MORE for dependants, not less) well...what's the math...

1,800,000,000,000 per year Federal Budget?

Now if we cut out all the Emperial Nonsense and reel shit in, that should be plenty.

Plus, they can continue to charge sales tax on vice items and that alone would pay for universal medical care in an overhauled system.
:ritd:"You've been left on your own, like a Rainbow in the Dark" -Ronnie James Dio:ritd:
NOLAButterfly (OP)

User ID: 34756412
United States
05/03/2013 10:10 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
so tell me how exactly you expect me to get off of the infrastructure that claims EVERYTHING???
 Quoting: NOLAButterfly


That's exactly why I say, if you are not happy with the laws of you state/country, shut up or get the fuck out.

Or become a politician and try to change laws.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1051099


You don't have to become a politician to change the laws, Mr. LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT, just POLITICAL. Ever heard of lobbying? "If you aren't happy with the laws SHUT UP or GET THE FUCK OUT"??? HEIL HITLER!! Hey guess what? Guess you are happy there are laws stating you can be experimented on chemically and biologically, so you will not complain when you are, RIGHT? (and you ARE, but that's a whole other thread!)

Fuck YOU, asshole! This is still AMERICA and even if you and those who have hijacked her has forgotten what that means, I am holding this WHOLE NATION accountable for what it represented itself as being- a Constitutional Republic. You must think this is actually a Democracy, telling me to SHUT UP! What kind of school yard bully are you? This is a thread attempting to understand the actual laws and meaning of the claim, and you come on here insulting people, telling them they HAVE to do something you have not proven to them, YET. Intimidating people into submission will NOT mean you win your argument.
ahole
Remember- GOD WINS!
ehecatl

User ID: 39264978
Mexico
05/03/2013 10:12 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
How about if they switch to a voluntary system,

...one where people who would like to make a donation to the US government if they feel so inspired,

and those who don't, don't?


1dunno1
eh, who cares what "they" do anyhow.

time to sweep the dirt floor and go feed the chickens.
 Quoting: ehecatl


it works for the Catholic Church, and a few other organizations at least
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2255906
Canada
05/03/2013 10:15 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Yes taxes are illegal but the people who enforce the tax code have bigger guns than you.

Try not paying your protection money and see how long before the shakedown happens.

Government = biggest Mafia organization in the world.
ehecatl

User ID: 39264978
Mexico
05/03/2013 10:23 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Yes taxes are illegal but the people who enforce the tax code have bigger guns than you.

Try not paying your protection money and see how long before the shakedown happens.

Government = biggest Mafia organization in the world.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2255906


bigger guns? big deal. everyone dies anyhow.


What is more powerful is the ability to not buy a bunch of consumer goods, to not be materialistic, to purposely earn only enough for ones basic needs. That is all a very personal matter, concerning life-style.

It's how people have fought slavery and fascism since time immemorial, simply by dragging the heels.

That is the only thing that forces the leaders to choose a new paradigm.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2255906
Canada
05/03/2013 10:23 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
How about if they switch to a voluntary system,

...one where people who would like to make a donation to the US government if they feel so inspired,

and those who don't, don't?


1dunno1
eh, who cares what "they" do anyhow.

time to sweep the dirt floor and go feed the chickens.
 Quoting: ehecatl


Income Tax in the USA is a voluntary system. That does not mean that you choose to pay. It means you do not have to pay it as you go, though most employees do.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2255906
Canada
05/03/2013 10:25 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Yes taxes are illegal but the people who enforce the tax code have bigger guns than you.

Try not paying your protection money and see how long before the shakedown happens.

Government = biggest Mafia organization in the world.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2255906


bigger guns? big deal. everyone dies anyhow.


What is more powerful is the ability to not buy a bunch of consumer goods, to not be materialistic, to purposely earn only enough for ones basic needs. That is all a very personal matter, concerning life-style.

It's how people have fought slavery and fascism since time immemorial, simply by dragging the heels.

That is the only thing that forces the leaders to choose a new paradigm.
 Quoting: ehecatl


And your theory only works when millions follow the non-compliance lead.

If people realized that a mass civil disobedience protest to not spend nor pay taxes, the monster we call TPTB would bow to our needs instantly for us, the host, would delouse the parasite, TBTB.
ohnonotagain
My Bite is Worse than my Bark

User ID: 39139483
United States
05/03/2013 10:30 AM

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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
I'm just a small town, country boy. I don't have any fancy, big-city pedigrees or Universitah Diplomas. I rise with the sun, tend my crops, feed the livestock and turn in at dusk, maybe do some whittling or do some fiddling on the front porch swing with a cool glass of country time lemonade (contains no lemons).

So take my opinion for what it's worth.

Seems to me that Government requires money to provide services and pay it's workers. Since those services and workers work for us, it is only right that we pay them.

We do this in the form of Tax.

Now, the rich shouldn't have to pay more, unless they are consuming an unfair amount of services. IMO, they aren't. In fact, the poor consume the most services.

If there are six billion citizens, and each citizen paid exactly 300 dollars per year in Federal (Yes, parents would pay MORE for dependants, not less) well...what's the math...

1,800,000,000,000 per year Federal Budget?

Now if we cut out all the Emperial Nonsense and reel shit in, that should be plenty.

Plus, they can continue to charge sales tax on vice items and that alone would pay for universal medical care in an overhauled system.
 Quoting: Holy_Diver


You need to redo your math....US population is currently about 312,000,000 not 6,000,000,000.
Dogs are People To!

"The Tree of Liberty is Thirsty and needs Watering"

-Me
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 430243
United States
05/03/2013 10:30 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Anything you financially support is considered speech, and falls under the protections of the first amendment.
NOLAButterfly (OP)

User ID: 34756412
United States
05/03/2013 10:35 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Anything you financially support is considered speech, and falls under the protections of the first amendment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 430243


Yes, that is how corporations are able to BUY OUR POLITICIANS, cause money is considered free speech, thanks to Citizens United, but that don't make it RIGHT in the context in which it was applied.
Remember- GOD WINS!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 29797536
United States
05/03/2013 11:00 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
The evidence demonstrating the unconstitutionality or misapplication of the income tax is voluminous. Please do your research before making ignorant comments.

Income taxes do not pay for services. See Devvy Kidd:
[link to www.devvy.com]

Income taxes are not contractual UNLESS you fill out and file an IRS form whereupon you dismiss your 5th amendment rights.

Evidence doubting the ratification of the 16th amendment is significant and substantial. See Bill Benson: [link to www.thelawthatneverwas.com]

Judicial support for the IRS doesn't imply constitutionality.

Many people have won court cases regarding non-filing: research Tom Cryer. Video: [link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Several IRS agents have investigated the IRS code for specific requirements for US citizens to pay income taxes and realized there is none. When they reveal their findings or ask for clarification from superiors they are fired. See Sherry Jackson and Joe Bannister.

Please tell us how you can file income tax forms WITHOUT abandoning several of your constitutional rights - that, alone, should be a red flag that it's unconstitutional.

For a detailed analysis of the income tax: [link to www.larkenrose.com]

Or, watch his excellent detailed video: [link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

We have been heavily indoctrinated to believe many falsities about our society, our country and our laws. Yet, any belief without foundation is superstition. Become educated!

militia
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6040426
United States
05/03/2013 11:02 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
I'm sure many of us are aware of the Russo Documentary on the subject that there is no law that could be found stating that you HAVE to pay taxes... and Sherry Jackson is one of many of our heroes, who also put her life on the line exposing this, but is it true?

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

BUT, someone just posted this on a facebook debate...

[link to docs.law.gwu.edu]

HELP!!! Can someone please clarify this issue for me once and for all?

wtfwtf
 Quoting: NOLAButterfly


taxation is theft
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 430243
United States
05/03/2013 11:04 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Anything you financially support is considered speech, and falls under the protections of the first amendment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 430243


Yes, that is how corporations are able to BUY OUR POLITICIANS, cause money is considered free speech, thanks to Citizens United, but that don't make it RIGHT in the context in which it was applied.
 Quoting: NOLAButterfly
It means, you can withdraw your financial support, under the first amendment protections.
ehecatl

User ID: 39266748
Mexico
05/03/2013 11:13 AM
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Re: HELP!! Are taxes legal or NOT? Debate going on... What's the FINAL verdict?
Yes taxes are illegal but the people who enforce the tax code have bigger guns than you.

Try not paying your protection money and see how long before the shakedown happens.

Government = biggest Mafia organization in the world.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2255906


bigger guns? big deal. everyone dies anyhow.


What is more powerful is the ability to not buy a bunch of consumer goods, to not be materialistic, to purposely earn only enough for ones basic needs. That is all a very personal matter, concerning life-style.

It's how people have fought slavery and fascism since time immemorial, simply by dragging the heels.

That is the only thing that forces the leaders to choose a new paradigm.
 Quoting: ehecatl


And your theory only works when millions follow the non-compliance lead.

If people realized that a mass civil disobedience protest to not spend nor pay taxes, the monster we call TPTB would bow to our needs instantly for us, the host, would delouse the parasite, TBTB.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2255906


And that happens automatically when enough people realize that they are on the losing end, and that that they are unduly being taken advantage of.

It takes the mind of an anthropologist to consider trading off the mortgaged home and life in the US for a simple life in some forgotten but fertile corner of the world.

But if I were one of the wealthy of the US, that would be my most precious dream.

Who cares how you present yourself to the world, so long you feel at peace with your decisions.

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