Turin Shroud 'was created by flash of supernatural light': It couldn't be a medieval forgery, say scientists

you're grasping at straws, trying to hold on to your beliefs.

you are in a losing battle.

shit is shit, and eventually it gets flushed down the toilet.

Supernatural light you say...
I think I'll get me some of that. Is that stuff you see in your dreams?

"Supernatural light" isn't a term your going to hear coming from scientists.

Yup, Jesus was nuked...and of course he's not a Negro...although he was a bum and never had a job, but still not a negro.

Is this why you are the colour of shit?

you must be a religious adherent.

your intellect is showing.

You're the one with shit on the brain.

You talk shit and you look like shit.

Go figure.

Shit in and shit out.
As above, so below.

ok, I get it now.

you're being like a child, as your bible commands.

Perhaps it was a supernova like th' scientists claim t'have foun' jest recently an' will be in th' visible speckrum on over th' next few days

Can you elaborate?

Can you?

Or are you merely stating sweet nothings.

It's a Holograph.

So you disregard the same scientists who you believe regarding evolution all because you don't like the conclusion?

Sounds about right.

ah, your jumping to conclusions, and trying to peg me as an atheist.

not fact, far from atheist, and far from swallowing bible or any other religions nonsense. the purpose is to deceive period.

lies take greater lies to hold them in place, until it eventually crumbles because of itself.

I wasn't trying to "peg you" as anything. you said "you're grasping at straws, trying to hold on to your beliefs."

So it sounded like you thought belief was something to mock.

But if you are a believer in something too, than it is more ironic that you mock someone for their beliefs. When I'm sure many would mock you for yours.

Golden rule bud.

in my case - it is know, not belief.

i mock religion, mainly because I know who is behind it.

but, as far as belief structures - they are part of the experiential pattern of this planet, and none of us are exempt. we all have to pass through it.

So, instead of just showing himself via the odd miracle or personal appearance (surely not too much to ask of the most powerful being in the universe), God chooses to 'photograph' himself in the form of his alter ego (jesus), and then remain deathly quiet for the next couple of thousand years?
Brilliant!
God-10
Unbelievers-0

In mine too.

I guess one of us is full of sh*t.

well then, I would put me money on you.

Exactly! You are starting to understand, because I would put my money on it being you.

Understand now the mutual respect we must have for our fellow people?

try me ill debate point by point

the dead giveaway for me knowing you are full of shit.

you start your sentence structure with a capital - if you really knew who is behind religion and one of it's main purpose, you would not write this way.

regurgitating something you learned in grade school - shows you are no where near awake.

ok, come back on to this thread after 9pm, est.

now, I have some work to do, but, will be back then.

come on..debate

Maybe you don't understand still, I thought you were catching on...

oh well, I can only hold your hand for so long.

Good luck. :)

The term Supernatural simply means something that does not adhere to the set laws of physics and logic that nature follows. It is defined and a scientific term.
Technically, anything man-made is by definition...supernatural. Supernatural really has nothing to do with "known" or "unknown" ,"explainable" or "unexplained" causes. It's just an adjective for something that is intelligently manipulated for a specific purpose...whether it be light, matter, chemicals, life...a car is supernatural, so is a jet, a painting, a song.

The shroud was latent evidence for a "supernatural" event...the event didn't happen to specifically produce the shroud. That being said, light burning an image into cloth isn't supernatural, it can be done in nature-under the right circumstances...this is where people get confused...the fact that their was light powerful enough to burn his image into the cloth-under the given circumstances- is the supernatural part...who or what the causes are irrelevant.

Scientists want to know what produced the light...now that the shroud is confirmed evidence at last, they can move on in their investigation. It's about time, I say.

The Resurrection

(2020.1) 189:0.1 SOON after the burial of Jesus on Friday afternoon, the chief of the archangels of Nebadon, then present on Urantia, summoned his council of the resurrection of sleeping will creatures and entered upon the consideration of a possible technique for the restoration of Jesus. These assembled sons of the local universe, the creatures of Michael, did this on their own responsibility; Gabriel had not assembled them. By midnight they had arrived at the conclusion that the creature could do nothing to facilitate the resurrection of the Creator. They were disposed to accept the advice of Gabriel, who instructed them that, since Michael had “laid down his life of his own free will, he also had power to take it up again in accordance with his own determination.” Shortly after the adjournment of this council of the archangels, the Life Carriers, and their various associates in the work of creature rehabilitation and morontia creation, the Personalized Adjuster of Jesus, being in personal command of the assembled celestial hosts then on Urantia, spoke these words to the anxious waiting watchers:

(2020.2) 189:0.2 “Not one of you can do aught to assist your Creator-father in the return to life. As a mortal of the realm he has experienced mortal death; as the Sovereign of a universe he still lives. That which you observe is the mortal transit of Jesus of Nazareth from life in the flesh to life in the morontia. The spirit transit of this Jesus was completed at the time I separated myself from his personality and became your temporary director. Your Creator-father has elected to pass through the whole of the experience of his mortal creatures, from birth on the material worlds, on through natural death and the resurrection of the morontia, into the status of true spirit existence. A certain phase of this experience you are about to observe, but you may not participate in it. Those things which you ordinarily do for the creature, you may not do for the Creator. A Creator Son has within himself the power to bestow himself in the likeness of any of his created sons; he has within himself the power to lay down his observable life and to take it up again; and he has this power because of the direct command of the Paradise Father, and I know whereof I speak.”

(2020.3) 189:0.3 When they heard the Personalized Adjuster so speak, they all assumed the attitude of anxious expectancy, from Gabriel down to the most humble cherubim. They saw the mortal body of Jesus in the tomb; they detected evidences of the universe activity of their beloved Sovereign; and not understanding such phenomena, they waited patiently for developments.
1. The Morontia Transit

(2020.4) 189:1.1 At two forty-five Sunday morning, the Paradise incarnation commission, consisting of seven unidentified Paradise personalities, arrived on the scene and immediately deployed themselves about the tomb. At ten minutes before three, intense vibrations of commingled material and morontia activities began to issue from Joseph’s new tomb, and at two minutes past three o’clock, this Sunday morning, April 9, A.D. 30, the resurrected morontia form and personality of Jesus of Nazareth came forth from the tomb.

(2021.1) 189:1.2 After the resurrected Jesus emerged from his burial tomb, the body of flesh in which he had lived and wrought on earth for almost thirty-six years was still lying there in the sepulchre niche, undisturbed and wrapped in the linen sheet, just as it had been laid to rest by Joseph and his associates on Friday afternoon. Neither was the stone before the entrance of the tomb in any way disturbed; the seal of Pilate was still unbroken; the soldiers were still on guard. The temple guards had been on continuous duty; the Roman guard had been changed at midnight. None of these watchers suspected that the object of their vigil had risen to a new and higher form of existence, and that the body which they were guarding was now a discarded outer covering which had no further connection with the delivered and resurrected morontia personality of Jesus.

(2021.2) 189:1.3 Mankind is slow to perceive that, in all that is personal, matter is the skeleton of morontia, and that both are the reflected shadow of enduring spirit reality. How long before you will regard time as the moving image of eternity and space as the fleeting shadow of Paradise realities?

(2021.3) 189:1.4 As far as we can judge, no creature of this universe nor any personality from another universe had anything to do with this morontia resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. On Friday he laid down his life as a mortal of the realm; on Sunday morning he took it up again as a morontia being of the system of Satania in Norlatiadek. There is much about the resurrection of Jesus which we do not understand. But we know that it occurred as we have stated and at about the time indicated. We can also record that all known phenomena associated with this mortal transit, or morontia resurrection, occurred right there in Joseph’s new tomb, where the mortal material remains of Jesus lay wrapped in burial cloths.

(2021.4) 189:1.5 We know that no creature of the local universe participated in this morontia awakening. We perceived the seven personalities of Paradise surround the tomb, but we did not see them do anything in connection with the Master’s awakening. Just as soon as Jesus appeared beside Gabriel, just above the tomb, the seven personalities from Paradise signalized their intention of immediate departure for Uversa.

(2021.5) 189:1.6 Let us forever clarify the concept of the resurrection of Jesus by making the following statements:

(2021.6) 189:1.7 1. His material or physical body was not a part of the resurrected personality. When Jesus came forth from the tomb, his body of flesh remained undisturbed in the sepulchre. He emerged from the burial tomb without moving the stones before the entrance and without disturbing the seals of Pilate.

(2021.7) 189:1.8 2. He did not emerge from the tomb as a spirit nor as Michael of Nebadon; he did not appear in the form of the Creator Sovereign, such as he had had before his incarnation in the likeness of mortal flesh on Urantia.

(2021.8) 189:1.9 3. He did come forth from this tomb of Joseph in the very likeness of the morontia personalities of those who, as resurrected morontia ascendant beings, emerge from the resurrection halls of the first mansion world of this local system of Satania. And the presence of the Michael memorial in the center of the vast court of the resurrection halls of mansonia number one leads us to conjecture that the Master’s resurrection on Urantia was in some way fostered on this, the first of the system mansion worlds.

(2022.1) 189:1.10 The first act of Jesus on arising from the tomb was to greet Gabriel and instruct him to continue in executive charge of universe affairs under Immanuel, and then he directed the chief of the Melchizedeks to convey his brotherly greetings to Immanuel. He thereupon asked the Most High of Edentia for the certification of the Ancients of Days as to his mortal transit; and turning to the assembled morontia groups of the seven mansion worlds, here gathered together to greet and welcome their Creator as a creature of their order, Jesus spoke the first words of the postmortal career. Said the morontia Jesus: “Having finished my life in the flesh, I would tarry here for a short time in transition form that I may more fully know the life of my ascendant creatures and further reveal the will of my Father in Paradise.”

(2022.2) 189:1.11 After Jesus had spoken, he signaled to the Personalized Adjuster, and all universe intelligences who had been assembled on Urantia to witness the resurrection were immediately dispatched to their respective universe assignments.

(2022.3) 189:1.12 Jesus now began the contacts of the morontia level, being introduced, as a creature, to the requirements of the life he had chosen to live for a short time on Urantia. This initiation into the morontia world required more than an hour of earth time and was twice interrupted by his desire to communicate with his former associates in the flesh as they came out from Jerusalem wonderingly to peer into the empty tomb to discover what they considered evidence of his resurrection.

(2022.4) 189:1.13 Now is the mortal transit of Jesus — the morontia resurrection of the Son of Man — completed. The transitory experience of the Master as a personality midway between the material and the spiritual has begun. And he has done all this through power inherent within himself; no personality has rendered him any assistance. He now lives as Jesus of morontia, and as he begins this morontia life, the material body of his flesh lies there undisturbed in the tomb. The soldiers are still on guard, and the seal of the governor about the rocks has not yet been broken.
2. The Material Body of Jesus

(2022.5) 189:2.1 At ten minutes past three o’clock, as the resurrected Jesus fraternized with the assembled morontia personalities from the seven mansion worlds of Satania, the chief of archangels — the angels of the resurrection — approached Gabriel and asked for the mortal body of Jesus. Said the chief of the archangels: “We may not participate in the morontia resurrection of the bestowal experience of Michael our sovereign, but we would have his mortal remains put in our custody for immediate dissolution. We do not propose to employ our technique of dematerialization; we merely wish to invoke the process of accelerated time. It is enough that we have seen the Sovereign live and die on Urantia; the hosts of heaven would be spared the memory of enduring the sight of the slow decay of the human form of the Creator and Upholder of a universe. In the name of the celestial intelligences of all Nebadon, I ask for a mandate giving me the custody of the mortal body of Jesus of Nazareth and empowering us to proceed with its immediate dissolution.”

(2023.1) 189:2.2 And when Gabriel had conferred with the senior Most High of Edentia, the archangel spokesman for the celestial hosts was given permission to make such disposition of the physical remains of Jesus as he might determine.

(2023.2) 189:2.3 After the chief of archangels had been granted this request, he summoned to his assistance many of his fellows, together with a numerous host of the representatives of all orders of celestial personalities, and then, with the aid of the Urantia midwayers, proceeded to take possession of Jesus’ physical body. This body of death was a purely material creation; it was physical and literal; it could not be removed from the tomb as the morontia form of the resurrection had been able to escape the sealed sepulchre. By the aid of certain morontia auxiliary personalities, the morontia form can be made at one time as of the spirit so that it can become indifferent to ordinary matter, while at another time it can become discernible and contactable to material beings, such as the mortals of the realm.

(2023.3) 189:2.4 As they made ready to remove the body of Jesus from the tomb preparatory to according it the dignified and reverent disposal of near-instantaneous dissolution, it was assigned the secondary Urantia midwayers to roll away the stones from the entrance of the tomb. The larger of these two stones was a huge circular affair, much like a millstone, and it moved in a groove chiseled out of the rock, so that it could be rolled back and forth to open or close the tomb. When the watching Jewish guards and the Roman soldiers, in the dim light of the morning, saw this huge stone begin to roll away from the entrance of the tomb, apparently of its own accord — without any visible means to account for such motion — they were seized with fear and panic, and they fled in haste from the scene. The Jews fled to their homes, afterward going back to report these doings to their captain at the temple. The Romans fled to the fortress of Antonia and reported what they had seen to the centurion as soon as he arrived on duty.

(2023.4) 189:2.5 The Jewish leaders began the sordid business of supposedly getting rid of Jesus by offering bribes to the traitorous Judas, and now, when confronted with this embarrassing situation, instead of thinking of punishing the guards who deserted their post, they resorted to bribing these guards and the Roman soldiers. They paid each of these twenty men a sum of money and instructed them to say to all: “While we slept during the nighttime, his disciples came upon us and took away the body.” And the Jewish leaders made solemn promises to the soldiers to defend them before Pilate in case it should ever come to the governor’s knowledge that they had accepted a bribe.

(2023.5) 189:2.6 The Christian belief in the resurrection of Jesus has been based on the fact of the “empty tomb.” It was indeed a fact that the tomb was empty, but this is not the truth of the resurrection. The tomb was truly empty when the first believers arrived, and this fact, associated with that of the undoubted resurrection of the Master, led to the formulation of a belief which was not true: the teaching that the material and mortal body of Jesus was raised from the grave. Truth having to do with spiritual realities and eternal values cannot always be built up by a combination of apparent facts. Although individual facts may be materially true, it does not follow that the association of a group of facts must necessarily lead to truthful spiritual conclusions.

(2023.6) 189:2.7 The tomb of Joseph was empty, not because the body of Jesus had been rehabilitated or resurrected, but because the celestial hosts had been granted their request to afford it a special and unique dissolution, a return of the “dust to dust,” without the intervention of the delays of time and without the operation of the ordinary and visible processes of mortal decay and material corruption.

(2024.1) 189:2.8 The mortal remains of Jesus underwent the same natural process of elemental disintegration as characterizes all human bodies on earth except that, in point of time, this natural mode of dissolution was greatly accelerated, hastened to that point where it became well-nigh instantaneous.

(2024.2) 189:2.9 The true evidences of the resurrection of Michael are spiritual in nature, albeit this teaching is corroborated by the testimony of many mortals of the realm who met, recognized, and communed with the resurrected morontia Master. He became a part of the personal experience of almost one thousand human beings before he finally took leave of Urantia.


[link to www.urantia.org]


the white rose

My Hand Shall Strike You Down! Says The Lord

9/8/09 From The Lord, Our God and Savior - A Letter Given to Jayse and Timothy, For All Those Who Speak in The Name of The Lord When The Lord Has Not Spoken, and For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear


Hear the word of The Lord, hear the indignation of The Father: Woe to you who speak in the name of The Lord, when I have not spoken! WOE TO YOU! Says The Lord God of Israel. For I shall stretch out My hand against you, and you shall surely fall! You shall no more stand, nor shall you be given a voice, anymore!... For you have no place before Me, says The Lord God.

Therefore hear the Word of The Lord, all you who speak falsely in My name: You stand divided, and every house divided shall surely fall! Thus I shall tear you down; I shall take everything you have built up in your arrogance and cast it into the fire! Says The Lord God of Hosts.
Now hear My words, bow down and listen! Shut your mouths! Yes, all you who blaspheme The Spirit, be silent, lest I strike you down where you stand for all your foolish-talking, for all these heresies which you have spewed before the people in MY name!... You have no voice before Me! And the prayers of all those who embrace your foul speech will not be heard, for you shall be given no voice at all! I will not share My glory, nor do I change! Thus in the day of My anger I shall strike you dumb, and you shall no more speak falsely in MY name!... Indeed, many shall be brought down into silence on that day, says The Lord.

Thus says The Lord to all those who speak in the name of The Most High God, when The Lord has not spoken: You shall all surely die! Repent therefore, and give Me glory! Stop polluting My name, and come to Me, and fall upon your faces with your mouths closed!... And I may yet have mercy upon you.
Yea, guard your steps when you come before Me and My house, you who have endeavored to speak in My name though I did not call you! And when standing before My throne remove your shoes from your feet and be still, and do not be hasty in your speech nor utter one word before your God, nor let the musings of your heart lead you into temptation! For I am HOLY!



Behold, I dwell in the unapproachable light,
My throne is set high above the heavens,
And the sound of My voice carries across the ages!



Yet you dwell here upon the earth below;
Behold, darkness covers you, and the pit opens its mouth as you draw near;
Destruction waits for you, as you continue to tread the wide path!...


Therefore, repent of all this false-witnessing! Cry out and wail!
Turn from all these heresies you have propagated in MY name!...


For I tell you the truth, you have all become mouthpieces of satan!



Therefore close your mouths, and speak no longer in the name of The Lord Most High, lest I destroy you utterly when the wrath of The Lord is fulfilled, both body and soul. For strong is The Lord who judges you, and righteous are My judgments and just are My ways!... Again I call you to repent, to humble yourselves before The Lord, and I may yet turn from My anger and lift you up, granting unto you a new voice with which you shall uplift My name, and a new heart by which you shall honor Me in truth and righteousness, says The Lord.

Thus says The Holy One of Israel, The Lion of The Tribe of Judah: All those who speak blasphemies, in the name of The Lord, shall be stripped of their life when I come in My glory! For in that day I will not withhold My anger! Says The Lord. For with My hand I shall strike you down, and by the sword of My mouth I shall divide you asunder!... Yet repent in truth, with sincere remorse, and you shall keep your life and be spared.

Yet of My servants, of whom I am also sending, I say this: I, The Lord, reside within them; and they have been chosen, redeemed and filled with My Spirit... Cleansed. These men, in number 144,000, shall speak with great and pure testimony, and pronounce My judgments. Behold, even profound and deep wisdom, surpassing human knowledge, shall come forth from their lips; for I have placed My words in their mouths, a gift which can only be received by God through the power of His Christ, according to His Spirit which He has given them. For these hear the Word of The Lord Most High... His voice they know, in His presence they dwell.
For I shall surely glorify My name by those I am sending, for I have put My words in their mouths, and only My Word is found upon their lips. And nothing in the heavens, or upon the earth, shall withhold them from speaking to the truth of who I am... Behold, their time has come! For I have poured out My Spirit on all nations, and those who have received shall be given a voice! Yea, they shall shout in concert to the glory of My name, even in the name I have received of My Father, YahuShua HaMashiach, which I shall cause to resound in all the earth! For the words, which I shall put forth through My prophets, shall bring down the mighty and abase the proud! And at their strong rebuke, many will fall to their knees and give Me glory in the Day of The Lord!

Yet you who cover your ears and hold fast in your rebellion against The Lord, even all of you who continue to walk in satan’s cause, shall come to know the anger of The Lord God wrought through His Mighty and Strong One, manifest in the brightness of His coming and carried out through the sword of His mouth!... YOU SHALL ALL BE STRUCK THROUGH! Behold, you shall be torn in pieces, when I execute My terrible vengeance on the nations, when I bring My punishment upon the people!... You shall not see life! Your inheritance is removed! Says The Lord.
Therefore hear My words and repent, all you who serve satan; repent in sincerity and truth. Fall down and give Me glory, and I may yet deliver you from the midst of all this darkness, from all this punishment. For I tell you the truth, The Father calls to you from Heaven, and My voice beckons to you from deep within... And still you forebear.



Why do you flirt with death and court destruction?!...



Receive of Me and live, everlasting life is what I offer you,
Life filled with the peace and joy you have longed for!...


Become again God’s children, made to abide in My love!...


For I AM HE who was nailed to the cross,
The One who shed His blood to save you,
He who was raised to glory; from the grave I am risen!...


He who reigns and has come!...


The King of Glory, yes I, YahuShua HaMashiach,

The Holy One of Israel.



For more search under google:

Letters from God and His Christ

Video Letters:
[link to www.youtube.com]

bump for great thread OP!

. Thank you for this.....