I have no proof or knowledge of this, but what if the ruling elite and the Illuminati are the good guys?

Explain the grove molech ceremony...

Again, I cannot defend or deny either version or side. That is up to others here to do that.

It depends, if you call slaughtering millions in war, child sacrifice/cannibalism, pedophilia, sex trafficking, brainwashing, etc. good, then the much of the current ruling elite are good.

But maybe it's what they say it is a just an old pagan "good 'ol boys ritual and not evil but a "bonding" club.

Just to play the other side here.

Is there really any proof of this or just stories created and pushed by other disinfo types?

Bohemian Grove is pretty creepy. I have done too much research to think that. They worship Lucifer. It cant be good.

For example. We hear stories of the British royal family doing blood sacrifices. How do you prove that this is not just a propaganda campaign to build up hate against them?

Hell, I don't know if it's true or not.

Start with Fritz Springmeier's books.

OK, let me jump way out there. Who knows if Lucifer is not the real god and that the church has tricked us into thinking he is evil.

In other words, what proof do we have of anything?

I read them and I believed them, but there is no real proof is there?

Sure but even Nixon saw it for what it is.
A chance for the elite to get dirt on you they could leverage later.

Ok, they butt fuck each other and tell secrets they shouldn't tell, but that doesn't mean that they rule the world. Does it?

Again, I am NOT promoting any group!

This will go over well...

Who is to say that Obama is not anything more than just an incompetent idiot, but not trying to destroy the country and bring in the NWO?

Is it not guilt by association? Sheep are not allowed ergo something incorrect is going on. Transparency and all that.

if their the good guys, then I wouldn't want to know the bad guys

it's funny because there are always two sides and if i learned anything then there always has to be two sides in this realm. If not, one side wins and becomes depleted, aka nothing.

...No, not at all.

Lucifer = [link to en.wikipedia.org]

...Dogma, that's where this aaaalllll began.

Eh, good, bad, such simple terms.

Reality is so much more complex.

I understand but good guys would help there own would they not?.

Maybe the real conspiracy is to label the "good guys", the idiots, the fools and the greedy as evil world controllers when the real controllers are not even known to us...

Judge them by their fruits. Their fruits are rotten to core. Look what they are selling us. Violence, drugs, homosexuality. let's look at 9/11 and other false flag terror attacks.

They are anti Christian. They are anti good morals and love. They are labeled evil with a reason and proof.

Sorry but the illuminuti (its illuminati but I say illuminuties, because you have to be nuts to think that you can defeat the Almighty God) bankers are responsible for all of the pain and suffering of the masses!! And the Great and the Almighty God of Heaven will be defeating them all, and having them all judged and swimming in fire and brimstone, forever and ever in the near future. They are the epitome of evil; and they follow their lord Satan, who has taught them to dominate through murder and theft and great genocides and wars!! And their agonies will be extremely harsh and very agonizingly painful, forever and ever and ever!!

Lucifer is an archetype which transcends both good and evil. It is non-dual and neutral. Both savior and advisory at the same time. Only the worth may prevail.

And exactly do you know this? Because some conspiracy site like this one said so? Think about it. The information is all hearsay. I'm not saying that you are wrong, but I am starting to wonder if this isn't a double con game going on.

It is so easy to point fingers with no proof.

But the Luciferians are not just philosophy or metaphysical. This group does exist. The question is what is their agenda and are they spreading lies about the world's control structure or are they the evil force of control.

The reason for this thread is that people are saying a lot of shit that they just heard from someone else with absolutely no proof of what they are saying.

I am getting tired of people here just "aping" what they have heard or read.

there is a flemish cabinet in Holyrood house (Scotland) that was once reputed to belong to Mary Queen of Scots. there are RED HEARTS on the outside of this cabinet and when you open up a secret door inside it on A CHECKERBOARD PATTERN an ORNAMENT ETC stood with mirrors behind it giving the viewer a 360 degree view. on the ceiling of this compartment is painted an INVERTED FIVE POINTED STAR symbol. This has been in a documentary (BBC with the presenter fiona bruce presenting it)

Now to prove a theory you must collect evidence and deduct by reasoning.

p.s. can you guess what type of "ORNAMENT" would be stored inside a locked cabinet kept in a personal room???

I should believe a retired FBI agent? WHY?

Does he serve a hidden agenda than what he says. I am not sure, but I don't like him...

I agree! And I don't see much of that. Just people repeating bullshit and rumors.

What if it was that easy to confuse and derail the truth? You just pass on lies and then fools spread these lies without any valid proof!

I am just questioning everything...

Are you trying to imply that you are a member of the Illuminati? More disinformation?