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Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare

 
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 06:45 PM
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Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
I recently finished reading the book One Second After and just started the book Lights Out. Both are about life after an EMP event.

What interests me is the cars in the books. In one of the books, the only cars that ran were the antique cars.

In the other book, some cars in the 70's and 80's were able to be repaired with a few new parts, and the ones that did not need repair were disel, why is that?

My question is, I have a 1994 Jeep Cherokee. Does anyone know if there is a computer chip in this Jeep? How far back would I have to go in order go get an old car without a computer chip?

Would a car without any computer chips still run after EMP or would there be other parts that would be fried also? If so, what parts would need to be replaced? Anyone know?

Thanks!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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05/21/2013 08:23 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
bump
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 08:24 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
Get a bicycle
Anonymous Chic

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05/21/2013 08:34 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
Get a bicycle
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33890290


Just in case, good to have and can easily get around.
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.” Samuel Adams, 1776
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 08:35 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
"electronic control units are a relatively recent addition to the automobile, having first appeared in the late 1970s."


[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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05/21/2013 08:37 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
"electronic control units are a relatively recent addition to the automobile, having first appeared in the late 1970s."


[link to www.youtube.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40259389


So, you have to go back before the late 70's?

I guess that's not possible, they call them collectors items and get high money for them.
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 08:41 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
Get a bicycle
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33890290


Just in case, good to have and can easily get around.
 Quoting: Anonymous Chic


Yup, I have one in my van, ready to go!
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 08:44 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
A diesel engine relies on compression for ignition while a gas engine needs an ignition system feeding electricity to spark plugs to ignite the air/fuel mix.

Newer cars (after mid 80's) are fuel injected which further complicates the mix. I would assume you want a carbureted car with some spare ignition components in your handy faraday cage.
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 08:46 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
run your car on wood

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
CORRECT ANSWER
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05/21/2013 08:46 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
If the powers that be desire it, all cars 2004 and newer will die. Any car that is onstar equipped will die. This is because all of the above have an always on cell connection built into the engine control computer, which can be used to destroy it.

There have been many clandestine nuclear tests in modern times which prove beyond a doubt that EMP is a psy op and the only thing that will take damage is power distribution networks, telephone networks, wide area lan networks using Cat5 cable and cable TV networks. Your car, Ipod, laptop, cell phone and all other devices will be unaffected unless there is a way to also command them to self destruct via the cell phone network.

To repeat - all cars model 2004 and newer can be shut off by command. That is federal law.
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 08:50 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
"electronic control units are a relatively recent addition to the automobile, having first appeared in the late 1970s."


[link to www.youtube.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40259389


So, you have to go back before the late 70's?

I guess that's not possible, they call them collectors items and get high money for them.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Or get the new Dodge Charger cool2 Orr a smart car, they are smart tounge
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 08:52 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
Also, it seems you may have to go back to before the 70's for cars without ECU chips or electronic fuel injectors..
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 09:05 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
You want a gm vehicle that runs on either points or an HEI ignition. GM HEI ignitions have one small module located in the distributor that is cheap and easy to replace. A severe enough EMP would even be able to fry an old points style ignition. Its easy enough to have a extra module or sets of point lying around as spares.

The vehicle will need to have a carburetor instead of being fuel injected. 1976 and older will work but you can modify most up into the mid/late eighties. The carbs started having electronic controls just before they phased them out for fuel injection.

The transmissions became computer controlled, then fuel injection, now the entire car. Older GM transmissions were controlled by engine vacuum (th350, th400) but the 200r4 and the 700r4 can be modified rather cheaply to shift without need of a control module. That leaves a ton of options open for you to find a vehicle to mod.

Find something you're willing to spend money on and find a racing/speed shop and build your car from there. Holley and edelbrock carbs, and HEI style ignition systems will be plentiful.

And for your other question, Your Jeep has a control module. An ECM plus the crank sensor on those is very sensitive and fails all the time even without an EMP
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 09:12 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
A mechanically injected diesel would run just fine. Any pre 86 benz or Pre-powerstroke (94.5 I beleive is when ford went powerstroke)Would be mechanically injected and does not even need a battery to run. You would have to pop start the vehicle in the even of a emp stopping the cars. Would you really want a running vehicle though when 99.9% of the population is stuck? Just sounds like a scary concept having the one moving vehicle.
Louve
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05/21/2013 09:14 PM

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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
I have a 1980 CJ7 sitting out in the garage. It has a points/condenser ignition system. When it sits idle, which is most of the time, I disconnect the battery.

I've read that if your car (or any electronic device)is running at the time of the EMP, you're screwed...but with the older ignition systems, as long as there isn't complete circuit (ie, battery disconnected) then it would likely survive intact.

There is some thoughts that the alternator wouldn't make it, but even so, you should be able to start your car and continue to drive, but likely wouldn't be able to start it again after that.

If you were to do something like this, you would want to make sure you continue to do maintenance on their car. Gas can go bad, batteries will die, tires will go flat, etc.

If I was truly serious, I would place the Jeep's battery, alternator and distributor in a sealed case until I needed them. If After an EMP, I'd have to reinstall these items of course, but would likely have one of the only running vehicles for many miles.
"Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams,
Telling myself it's not as hard, hard, hard as it seems."
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 09:17 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
Cummins up to early 98 have manual injection also
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 09:19 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
I have a 1980 CJ7 sitting out in the garage. It has a points/condenser ignition system. When it sits idle, which is most of the time, I disconnect the battery.

I've read that if your car (or any electronic device)is running at the time of the EMP, you're screwed...but with the older ignition systems, as long as there isn't complete circuit (ie, battery disconnected) then it would likely survive intact.

There is some thoughts that the alternator wouldn't make it, but even so, you should be able to start your car and continue to drive, but likely wouldn't be able to start it again after that.

If you were to do something like this, you would want to make sure you continue to do maintenance on their car. Gas can go bad, batteries will die, tires will go flat, etc.

If I was truly serious, I would place the Jeep's battery, alternator and distributor in a sealed case until I needed them. If After an EMP, I'd have to reinstall these items of course, but would likely have one of the only running vehicles for many miles.
 Quoting: Louve


Somebody replace ignition ?cause it should be electronic
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 09:19 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
"electronic control units are a relatively recent addition to the automobile, having first appeared in the late 1970s."


[link to www.youtube.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40259389


So, you have to go back before the late 70's?

I guess that's not possible, they call them collectors items and get high money for them.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Or get the new Dodge Charger cool2 Orr a smart car, they are smart tounge
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40259389


Explain why the Dodge Charger is any different than other fleet vehicles?
Useless Cookie Eater

User ID: 29696048
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05/21/2013 09:20 PM

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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
I recently finished reading the book One Second After and just started the book Lights Out. Both are about life after an EMP event.

What interests me is the cars in the books. In one of the books, the only cars that ran were the antique cars.

In the other book, some cars in the 70's and 80's were able to be repaired with a few new parts, and the ones that did not need repair were disel, why is that?

My question is, I have a 1994 Jeep Cherokee. Does anyone know if there is a computer chip in this Jeep? How far back would I have to go in order go get an old car without a computer chip?

Would a car without any computer chips still run after EMP or would there be other parts that would be fried also? If so, what parts would need to be replaced? Anyone know?

Thanks!
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Best choices are cars with PONITS as the ignition system....or old diesel cars.

Stay away from anything with modern electronics.
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 09:22 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
Sorry about a slight change of subject, but if there is a magnetic incoming storm "from something that does not exist" can our CDs or DVDs be protected by a good wrap up in Aluminum foil?
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 09:27 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
Sorry about a slight change of subject, but if there is a magnetic incoming storm "from something that does not exist" can our CDs or DVDs be protected by a good wrap up in Aluminum foil?
 Quoting: waitn4end


It can't erase data stored in that fashion...No need
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 09:31 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
"electronic control units are a relatively recent addition to the automobile, having first appeared in the late 1970s."


[link to www.youtube.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40259389


So, you have to go back before the late 70's?

I guess that's not possible, they call them collectors items and get high money for them.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Or get the new Dodge Charger cool2 Orr a smart car, they are smart tounge
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40259389


Explain why the Dodge Charger is any different than other fleet vehicles?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21980417


Have you not seen the Dodge Defiance commercial? hf
Life and Love

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05/21/2013 09:33 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
I recently finished reading the book One Second After and just started the book Lights Out. Both are about life after an EMP event.

What interests me is the cars in the books. In one of the books, the only cars that ran were the antique cars.

In the other book, some cars in the 70's and 80's were able to be repaired with a few new parts, and the ones that did not need repair were disel, why is that?

My question is, I have a 1994 Jeep Cherokee. Does anyone know if there is a computer chip in this Jeep? How far back would I have to go in order go get an old car without a computer chip?

Would a car without any computer chips still run after EMP or would there be other parts that would be fried also? If so, what parts would need to be replaced? Anyone know?

Thanks!
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Yes, I know.

Most of them will. It takes a "perfect storm" of conditions to damage one.
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 09:33 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
Go really old school. Carbureted engne with magneto ignition. A tractor perhaps!
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 09:34 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
that induced current has to go somewhere to cause damage and an ungounded car sitting on its rubber tires is pretty immune to any EMP.

Yes, I said ANY!

want proof?



Thats north of 500kv and the car was fine, they get hit by real lightning all the time and still run and the length of the stroke is a function of voltage, longer is higher voltage.
Anonymous Coward
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New Zealand
05/21/2013 09:44 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
"electronic control units are a relatively recent addition to the automobile, having first appeared in the late 1970s."


[link to www.youtube.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40259389


So, you have to go back before the late 70's?

I guess that's not possible, they call them collectors items and get high money for them.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Ha - not in some countries - standard issue.... Here we mainly get used imports.. New cars are unusual.

For fun if you like cars:
[link to www.trademe.co.nz]

The "ebay" of New Zealand. 63,000 used cars listed to 1300 new.

I only owned new cars in the States. I've only owned used ones in New Zealand. Find a shipper and I'll trade you a "classic" for a new one!!
Useless Cookie Eater

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05/21/2013 09:48 PM

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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
that induced current has to go somewhere to cause damage and an ungounded car sitting on its rubber tires is pretty immune to any EMP.

Yes, I said ANY!

want proof?



Thats north of 500kv and the car was fine, they get hit by real lightning all the time and still run and the length of the stroke is a function of voltage, longer is higher voltage.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19818372


Lightning is directed energy....an EMP is not.
Different animals. naughty
Most cars deflect lightning unless they are all plastic.

Now back to REALITY.............

(keep in mind this is a VERY low level EMP burst in this staged event)




Last Edited by Useless Cookie Eater on 05/21/2013 09:48 PM
Louve
We see what we look for...

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05/21/2013 09:49 PM

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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
Somebody replace ignition ?cause it should be electronic
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36884649


Good question! And I should have clarified...I swapped out the stock 6 for a '73 304. Your knowledge is impressive :)
"Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams,
Telling myself it's not as hard, hard, hard as it seems."
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2013 09:56 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
When I finally decide on my keeper house the one we will grow old and retire in, I plan to build a faraday cage in the garage. Like make the whole garage the cage. I know that will only work if the car is in the garage but I live in the berbs and work in the city so if SHTF my running car will not get me far amongst all the dead cars anyway.
waterlily

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05/21/2013 10:05 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
You want a gm vehicle that runs on either points or an HEI ignition. GM HEI ignitions have one small module located in the distributor that is cheap and easy to replace. A severe enough EMP would even be able to fry an old points style ignition. Its easy enough to have a extra module or sets of point lying around as spares.

The vehicle will need to have a carburetor instead of being fuel injected. 1976 and older will work but you can modify most up into the mid/late eighties. The carbs started having electronic controls just before they phased them out for fuel injection.

The transmissions became computer controlled, then fuel injection, now the entire car. Older GM transmissions were controlled by engine vacuum (th350, th400) but the 200r4 and the 700r4 can be modified rather cheaply to shift without need of a control module. That leaves a ton of options open for you to find a vehicle to mod.

Find something you're willing to spend money on and find a racing/speed shop and build your car from there. Holley and edelbrock carbs, and HEI style ignition systems will be plentiful.

And for your other question, Your Jeep has a control module. An ECM plus the crank sensor on those is very sensitive and fails all the time even without an EMP
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7193106


New cars are all computerized, all systems, steering to transmission. Look around and get an old Datsun pickup truck. They are usually kind of beat up looking and do not command high classic car prices. They are indestructable and nobody will steal them.

[link to www.productioncars.com]
*********** WaterLily ***********
" Do I dare
Disturb the universe?"
-- T. S. Elliot, Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock

*************************************
“We are as ignorant of the meaning of the dragon as we are of the meaning of the universe.”
-- Jorge Luis Borges
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Pompey made his preparations for the war at the end of the winter, entered upon it at the commencement of spring,
and finished it in the middle of the summer."
-- Cicero, De Imperio Cn. Pompei
Classic Cars
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05/21/2013 10:17 PM
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Re: Question About Cars and What Will Run After EMP or Solar Flare
Like someone else posted here, most every car pre-2004 will do fine. This may even be true for 2004+ cars if they are not running at the time of EMP. The DOD did extensive testing of this around 1999. Basically, when you shut off your car you open the circuits to the ECU making them less susceptible to the errant currents caused by EMP.

So don't sweat your Jeep. It will do just fine, especially if you turn it off when you hear the Civil Defense Alerts!

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