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FreeMasons - truth

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1746456
Germany
06/02/2013 08:32 PM
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Re: FreeMasons - truth
lets get factual. Can informed participants confirm this?

1- Basis of Masonry is Gnostics and Theosophy:
The creator was Wisdom or Adam Kamon

2- Evil & good are at the same level
3- Godhead is unknown. IHVH is a lesser bad god for humanity;
Lucifer is another lesser god but good for humanity
4- Christ was a tool of the Godhead, not of IHVH
5- New Jersulamen is a world under the some political and spiritual Lider
6- Royal secret is ability to kill and defence of Evil
7- Getting to the celestial lodge in practice means that important men keepliving in the mind of humanity
8- The arriving of spirits from Sirius to the Earth is just something minoritarian, not general belief

9- do not accept limits, free from idea of sin, like gods are
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40702571


Longtime Mason here. Also Companion of the HRA and SPRS (32*).

1. No. The basis of Masonry is using stoneworking tools "the working tools" as a means of symbolizing how we should plan our days and live our lives as we strive to make our lives worth while to our families and communities.

2. No. Evil, per se, has no place in Masonry. Although, we often say "we all hang our own plumb lines" (meaning that people's morals may not be identical).

3. God is whichever "god" you worship. You should have all the faith in the world for that god. For myself and every other Mason I know, that god is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. All Masonic allegories revolve around stories of this God and the Bible.

4. Christ is whatever you think he is. Religion is not a part of Masonry. There is no religious instruction in Masonry. To illustrate concepts, stories and allegories related to the Bible are used but that's because at the time the allegories were made, knowledge of the Bible was almost universal among educated people. They were already familiar with the stories.

5. Not a part of Masonry.

6. Not even close.

7. That's one meaning. But it's more commonly used like saying someone went to "a better place" or "that big roller Derby in the sky" or whatever heaven can colloquially be called.

8. Not a part of Masonry.

9. That goes directly AGAINST the symbols of the compass and square. So that's definitely not right.

Hope this helped.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1746456



And what do you say about the charge of the end justifying the means?
 Quoting: K.Kool


In general, don't you think it's up to each individual whether or not a predicted "end" can justify a given "means" or method?

Maybe I don't understand your question.
K.Kool

User ID: 29261004
Australia
06/02/2013 08:43 PM

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Re: FreeMasons - truth
lets get factual. Can informed participants confirm this?

1- Basis of Masonry is Gnostics and Theosophy:
The creator was Wisdom or Adam Kamon

2- Evil & good are at the same level
3- Godhead is unknown. IHVH is a lesser bad god for humanity;
Lucifer is another lesser god but good for humanity
4- Christ was a tool of the Godhead, not of IHVH
5- New Jersulamen is a world under the some political and spiritual Lider
6- Royal secret is ability to kill and defence of Evil
7- Getting to the celestial lodge in practice means that important men keepliving in the mind of humanity
8- The arriving of spirits from Sirius to the Earth is just something minoritarian, not general belief

9- do not accept limits, free from idea of sin, like gods are
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40702571


Longtime Mason here. Also Companion of the HRA and SPRS (32*).

1. No. The basis of Masonry is using stoneworking tools "the working tools" as a means of symbolizing how we should plan our days and live our lives as we strive to make our lives worth while to our families and communities.

2. No. Evil, per se, has no place in Masonry. Although, we often say "we all hang our own plumb lines" (meaning that people's morals may not be identical).

3. God is whichever "god" you worship. You should have all the faith in the world for that god. For myself and every other Mason I know, that god is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. All Masonic allegories revolve around stories of this God and the Bible.

4. Christ is whatever you think he is. Religion is not a part of Masonry. There is no religious instruction in Masonry. To illustrate concepts, stories and allegories related to the Bible are used but that's because at the time the allegories were made, knowledge of the Bible was almost universal among educated people. They were already familiar with the stories.

5. Not a part of Masonry.

6. Not even close.

7. That's one meaning. But it's more commonly used like saying someone went to "a better place" or "that big roller Derby in the sky" or whatever heaven can colloquially be called.

8. Not a part of Masonry.

9. That goes directly AGAINST the symbols of the compass and square. So that's definitely not right.

Hope this helped.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1746456



And what do you say about the charge of the end justifying the means?
 Quoting: K.Kool


In general, don't you think it's up to each individual whether or not a predicted "end" can justify a given "means" or method?

Maybe I don't understand your question.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1746456



Of course morality is up to each individual, we cannot force it on anyone.

Now I'm concerned you believe moral ethics to be purely relative, and not based on objective reason?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 8309474
Germany
06/02/2013 10:11 PM
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Re: FreeMasons - truth
...


Longtime Mason here. Also Companion of the HRA and SPRS (32*).

1. No. The basis of Masonry is using stoneworking tools "the working tools" as a means of symbolizing how we should plan our days and live our lives as we strive to make our lives worth while to our families and communities.

2. No. Evil, per se, has no place in Masonry. Although, we often say "we all hang our own plumb lines" (meaning that people's morals may not be identical).

3. God is whichever "god" you worship. You should have all the faith in the world for that god. For myself and every other Mason I know, that god is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. All Masonic allegories revolve around stories of this God and the Bible.

4. Christ is whatever you think he is. Religion is not a part of Masonry. There is no religious instruction in Masonry. To illustrate concepts, stories and allegories related to the Bible are used but that's because at the time the allegories were made, knowledge of the Bible was almost universal among educated people. They were already familiar with the stories.

5. Not a part of Masonry.

6. Not even close.

7. That's one meaning. But it's more commonly used like saying someone went to "a better place" or "that big roller Derby in the sky" or whatever heaven can colloquially be called.

8. Not a part of Masonry.

9. That goes directly AGAINST the symbols of the compass and square. So that's definitely not right.

Hope this helped.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1746456



And what do you say about the charge of the end justifying the means?
 Quoting: K.Kool


In general, don't you think it's up to each individual whether or not a predicted "end" can justify a given "means" or method?

Maybe I don't understand your question.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1746456



Of course morality is up to each individual, we cannot force it on anyone.

Now I'm concerned you believe moral ethics to be purely relative, and not based on objective reason?
 Quoting: K.Kool


I don't think this thread is about what any one person believes. Also, why are you so concerned about what I believe when you still haven't gotten it all figured out yourself? I'd say it would be prudent to just be concerned about yourself, try to be a good person and leave it at that.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25748337
Australia
06/03/2013 03:16 AM
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Re: FreeMasons - truth
Most Masons down at the bottom wouldn't even know the real truth behind the pyramid
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21780621


You wouldn't know TRUTH.....even if it bit you on the bum.5a
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21780621
Australia
06/03/2013 03:27 AM
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Re: FreeMasons - truth
Most Masons down at the bottom wouldn't even know the real truth behind the pyramid
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21780621


You wouldn't know TRUTH.....even if it bit you on the bum.5a
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25748337


Tell me the meaning behind the steps and the bricks in the pyramid that Freemasons use than?
Children of the Atom

User ID: 20257839
United States
06/03/2013 03:30 AM
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Re: FreeMasons - truth
batshitcrazy
K.Kool

User ID: 23854745
Australia
06/03/2013 04:54 AM

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Re: FreeMasons - truth
...



And what do you say about the charge of the end justifying the means?
 Quoting: K.Kool


In general, don't you think it's up to each individual whether or not a predicted "end" can justify a given "means" or method?

Maybe I don't understand your question.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1746456



Of course morality is up to each individual, we cannot force it on anyone.

Now I'm concerned you believe moral ethics to be purely relative, and not based on objective reason?
 Quoting: K.Kool


I don't think this thread is about what any one person believes. Also, why are you so concerned about what I believe when you still haven't gotten it all figured out yourself? I'd say it would be prudent to just be concerned about yourself, try to be a good person and leave it at that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8309474



Lol, you masons are such adroit side-steppers!

I'm asking the question as regards freemasonry (this thread is about freemasonry) and you as a freemason can answer if you want to clear up what freemasonry believes about objective morality, or not..

I don't believe an evil action, an immoral action, is justified, even if the desired result is 'good'.
If we all subscribed to the end justifies the means, we would descend into a state of corrupted chaos, is this what free masons want?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25748337
Australia
06/03/2013 07:20 AM
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Re: FreeMasons - truth
Most Masons down at the bottom wouldn't even know the real truth behind the pyramid
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21780621


You wouldn't know TRUTH.....even if it bit you on the bum.5a
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25748337


Tell me the meaning behind the steps and the bricks in the pyramid that Freemasons use than?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21780621


There is NO sense in your statement, whatsoever.
You need to clarify...............if possible.?otrike
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 30952130
Australia
06/03/2013 07:50 AM
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Re: FreeMasons - truth
The Free-masons(who are not free)
grew out of the Illuminati, which was started by a Jesuit

The Jesuits, The Masons
and other Occult Lucifer worshipers

all have the eye in the triangle as their symbol
(The same one on the American One dollar bill)
Its on the Jesuit Buildings its on the Freemasons shiner Aprons and its in many Occult Books


Someone early was saying that the Catholic Church hasn't been Right since 1954 or so, this is also a deception it has never been right, its always had the appearance of evil

because it is evil, It originally thought to mix paganism with Christianity, One teaches Works and payments, whilst the other teaches That Christ Paid it All if you join those two together you are left with confusion.

*It did persecute Christs Saints for 1260 Years
*It does sit on 7 Hills and in many waters
*It is THE power which thought to change THE times and laws
*It is the power which deleted 3 whole kingdoms
*It Does meet and empower the Kings of the Earth
*It does wear Purple and Scarlet
*It did suffer a Mortal wound that was later Healed
*The whole world does Follow it, or wonder after it
*It Did Call for a Central World Bank
*It does pray to Lucifer every Easter and commit other Blasphemes
TruthMinion

User ID: 41050306
Brazil
06/03/2013 08:03 AM

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Re: FreeMasons - truth
Most Masons down at the bottom wouldn't even know the real truth behind the pyramid
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21780621


True, but they will follow orders, not even knowing what the ultimate aim is..
and that aim is based on the end justifying the means,
the oldest excuse in the book for perpetrating immoral and violent acts.
 Quoting: K.Kool


I have passed one of their "meritocratic" tests that they use, and they ask for the "profane" to do things to my person while at work, "not even knowing what the ultimate aim is.."

So it is not only Masons who do this. This is the whole society.

That is the main ethical problem involved in gang-stalking.

THE WORLD IS SHITTY FROM TOP TO BOTTOM.

Truly a garbage society.

No wonder Masons love to do so much coke.
I am The 5D Raver!
[link to www.the5draver.info]
TruthMinion

User ID: 41050306
Brazil
06/03/2013 08:04 AM

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Re: FreeMasons - truth
The Free-masons(who are not free)
grew out of the Illuminati, which was started by a Jesuit

The Jesuits, The Masons
and other Occult Lucifer worshipers

all have the eye in the triangle as their symbol
(The same one on the American One dollar bill)
Its on the Jesuit Buildings its on the Freemasons shiner Aprons and its in many Occult Books


Someone early was saying that the Catholic Church hasn't been Right since 1954 or so, this is also a deception it has never been right, its always had the appearance of evil

because it is evil, It originally thought to mix paganism with Christianity, One teaches Works and payments, whilst the other teaches That Christ Paid it All if you join those two together you are left with confusion.

*It did persecute Christs Saints for 1260 Years
*It does sit on 7 Hills and in many waters
*It is THE power which thought to change THE times and laws
*It is the power which deleted 3 whole kingdoms
*It Does meet and empower the Kings of the Earth
*It does wear Purple and Scarlet
*It did suffer a Mortal wound that was later Healed
*The whole world does Follow it, or wonder after it
*It Did Call for a Central World Bank
*It does pray to Lucifer every Easter and commit other Blasphemes
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30952130


It does not matter who is at the top.

Masons are the foot-soldiers.

And very nasty at it.
I am The 5D Raver!
[link to www.the5draver.info]
TruthMinion

User ID: 41050306
Brazil
06/03/2013 08:50 AM

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Re: FreeMasons - truth
And it IS a religion.

Its symbolisms can be found anywhere.

Laws are passed/signed on certain dates. They use the 11 in many institutions (Supreme Court). When we are supposed to live in a secular society, we see and hear masonry.

Not only it is a religion. It is a very fanatical one.
I am The 5D Raver!
[link to www.the5draver.info]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1811682
Germany
06/03/2013 08:58 AM
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Re: FreeMasons - truth
...


In general, don't you think it's up to each individual whether or not a predicted "end" can justify a given "means" or method?

Maybe I don't understand your question.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1746456



Of course morality is up to each individual, we cannot force it on anyone.

Now I'm concerned you believe moral ethics to be purely relative, and not based on objective reason?
 Quoting: K.Kool


I don't think this thread is about what any one person believes. Also, why are you so concerned about what I believe when you still haven't gotten it all figured out yourself? I'd say it would be prudent to just be concerned about yourself, try to be a good person and leave it at that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8309474



Lol, you masons are such adroit side-steppers!

I'm asking the question as regards freemasonry (this thread is about freemasonry) and you as a freemason can answer if you want to clear up what freemasonry believes about objective morality, or not..

I don't believe an evil action, an immoral action, is justified, even if the desired result is 'good'.
If we all subscribed to the end justifies the means, we would descend into a state of corrupted chaos, is this what free masons want?
 Quoting: K.Kool


You know, life is more than cliches like "the end justifies the means". In fact, it's a meaningless cliche. No one can accurately predict an "end".

Take Hitler for example. He sought a "glorious end" which required "horrifying means". But guess what--the "end never came about--his plan was thwarted. So no one can say the means were justified (not even the most avid Nazi).

Take building a new church, for example. The preacher asks everyone in the congregation to dig deep and sacrifice hard to donate to the new church being built. Halfway through the construction, a tornado hits the building site. The new church is never built.

If the church would have been built, then the end (new church) would probably justify the means (sacrificing to donate). But since the church was never built, then the "end" was a hypothetical one and did not justify the means.

To say in any circumstance that a predicted "end" justifies a given "means" or method is an arrogant and feeble rationalization. That's because our predicted "end" is subject to variables that we can't know about or control.

That's what I think.

Life is not about rules of thumb and cliches. Those things are for people who lack critical thinking skills. It helps them make decisions when they can't figure out what to do.

Now why don't you quit assuming so much about Masonry? Haven't you noticed that most "conspiracy stuff" you read on the internet is complete rubbish". Project Camelot comes to mind.

Worry about yourself. Yes, it's easier to let your imagination run wild about what you think other people are doing than to take a look in the mirror. As a Mason, improving myself and keeping my nose out of my neighbors' business are priorities for me. Maybe you might learn from that.
K.Kool

User ID: 22462217
Australia
06/03/2013 09:09 AM

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Re: FreeMasons - truth
Most Masons down at the bottom wouldn't even know the real truth behind the pyramid
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21780621


True, but they will follow orders, not even knowing what the ultimate aim is..
and that aim is based on the end justifying the means,
the oldest excuse in the book for perpetrating immoral and violent acts.
 Quoting: K.Kool


I have passed one of their "meritocratic" tests that they use, and they ask for the "profane" to do things to my person while at work, "not even knowing what the ultimate aim is.."

So it is not only Masons who do this. This is the whole society.

That is the main ethical problem involved in gang-stalking.

THE WORLD IS SHITTY FROM TOP TO BOTTOM.

Truly a garbage society.

No wonder Masons love to do so much coke.
 Quoting: TruthMinion



If they do so much coke, it's due to their guilty consciences for making the world so shitty.
K.Kool

User ID: 22462217
Australia
06/03/2013 09:15 AM

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Re: FreeMasons - truth
...



Of course morality is up to each individual, we cannot force it on anyone.

Now I'm concerned you believe moral ethics to be purely relative, and not based on objective reason?
 Quoting: K.Kool


I don't think this thread is about what any one person believes. Also, why are you so concerned about what I believe when you still haven't gotten it all figured out yourself? I'd say it would be prudent to just be concerned about yourself, try to be a good person and leave it at that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8309474



Lol, you masons are such adroit side-steppers!

I'm asking the question as regards freemasonry (this thread is about freemasonry) and you as a freemason can answer if you want to clear up what freemasonry believes about objective morality, or not..

I don't believe an evil action, an immoral action, is justified, even if the desired result is 'good'.
If we all subscribed to the end justifies the means, we would descend into a state of corrupted chaos, is this what free masons want?
 Quoting: K.Kool


You know, life is more than cliches like "the end justifies the means". In fact, it's a meaningless cliche. No one can accurately predict an "end".

Take Hitler for example. He sought a "glorious end" which required "horrifying means". But guess what--the "end never came about--his plan was thwarted. So no one can say the means were justified (not even the most avid Nazi).

Take building a new church, for example. The preacher asks everyone in the congregation to dig deep and sacrifice hard to donate to the new church being built. Halfway through the construction, a tornado hits the building site. The new church is never built.

If the church would have been built, then the end (new church) would probably justify the means (sacrificing to donate). But since the church was never built, then the "end" was a hypothetical one and did not justify the means.

To say in any circumstance that a predicted "end" justifies a given "means" or method is an arrogant and feeble rationalization. That's because our predicted "end" is subject to variables that we can't know about or control.

That's what I think.

Life is not about rules of thumb and cliches. Those things are for people who lack critical thinking skills. It helps them make decisions when they can't figure out what to do.

Now why don't you quit assuming so much about Masonry? Haven't you noticed that most "conspiracy stuff" you read on the internet is complete rubbish". Project Camelot comes to mind.

Worry about yourself. Yes, it's easier to let your imagination run wild about what you think other people are doing than to take a look in the mirror. As a Mason, improving myself and keeping my nose out of my neighbors' business are priorities for me. Maybe you might learn from that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1811682



Ok, I'll try one more time, to get a straight answer.

Do masons carry out acts that are objectively immoral, in order to bring about a desired result?
I'm not interested in whether the result eventuates or not.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2263358
Germany
06/03/2013 09:22 AM
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Re: FreeMasons - truth
Most Masons down at the bottom wouldn't even know the real truth behind the pyramid
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21780621


True, but they will follow orders, not even knowing what the ultimate aim is..
and that aim is based on the end justifying the means,
the oldest excuse in the book for perpetrating immoral and violent acts.
 Quoting: K.Kool


I have passed one of their "meritocratic" tests that they use, and they ask for the "profane" to do things to my person while at work, "not even knowing what the ultimate aim is.."

So it is not only Masons who do this. This is the whole society.

That is the main ethical problem involved in gang-stalking.

THE WORLD IS SHITTY FROM TOP TO BOTTOM.

Truly a garbage society.

No wonder Masons love to do so much coke.
 Quoting: TruthMinion



If they do so much coke, it's due to their guilty consciences for making the world so shitty.
 Quoting: K.Kool


If your world is shirt, then take responsibility. My world is good. People still help one another. People feel each others' pain and celebrate each others' triumphs. Neighbors step in and help each other with no thought of reward. People are generous. Information and self-education are more free than ever. All the tools for success are available to more people in the world now more than at any time in history.

Life is GOOD. You would be a lot happier (and far less paranoid) if you would remember that.
K.Kool

User ID: 22462217
Australia
06/03/2013 09:28 AM

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Re: FreeMasons - truth
...


True, but they will follow orders, not even knowing what the ultimate aim is..
and that aim is based on the end justifying the means,
the oldest excuse in the book for perpetrating immoral and violent acts.
 Quoting: K.Kool


I have passed one of their "meritocratic" tests that they use, and they ask for the "profane" to do things to my person while at work, "not even knowing what the ultimate aim is.."

So it is not only Masons who do this. This is the whole society.

That is the main ethical problem involved in gang-stalking.

THE WORLD IS SHITTY FROM TOP TO BOTTOM.

Truly a garbage society.

No wonder Masons love to do so much coke.
 Quoting: TruthMinion



If they do so much coke, it's due to their guilty consciences for making the world so shitty.
 Quoting: K.Kool


If your world is shirt, then take responsibility. My world is good. People still help one another. People feel each others' pain and celebrate each others' triumphs. Neighbors step in and help each other with no thought of reward. People are generous. Information and self-education are more free than ever. All the tools for success are available to more people in the world now more than at any time in history.

Life is GOOD. You would be a lot happier (and far less paranoid) if you would remember that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2263358



Still no straight answer, eh?

My own little personal world is good too, but that doesn't blind me to the injustices and suffering caused by many acts
that go against basic human morality, by those who stand to gain.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2263358
Germany
06/03/2013 09:30 AM
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Re: FreeMasons - truth
...


I don't think this thread is about what any one person believes. Also, why are you so concerned about what I believe when you still haven't gotten it all figured out yourself? I'd say it would be prudent to just be concerned about yourself, try to be a good person and leave it at that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8309474



Lol, you masons are such adroit side-steppers!

I'm asking the question as regards freemasonry (this thread is about freemasonry) and you as a freemason can answer if you want to clear up what freemasonry believes about objective morality, or not..

I don't believe an evil action, an immoral action, is justified, even if the desired result is 'good'.
If we all subscribed to the end justifies the means, we would descend into a state of corrupted chaos, is this what free masons want?
 Quoting: K.Kool


You know, life is more than cliches like "the end justifies the means". In fact, it's a meaningless cliche. No one can accurately predict an "end".

Take Hitler for example. He sought a "glorious end" which required "horrifying means". But guess what--the "end never came about--his plan was thwarted. So no one can say the means were justified (not even the most avid Nazi).

Take building a new church, for example. The preacher asks everyone in the congregation to dig deep and sacrifice hard to donate to the new church being built. Halfway through the construction, a tornado hits the building site. The new church is never built.

If the church would have been built, then the end (new church) would probably justify the means (sacrificing to donate). But since the church was never built, then the "end" was a hypothetical one and did not justify the means.

To say in any circumstance that a predicted "end" justifies a given "means" or method is an arrogant and feeble rationalization. That's because our predicted "end" is subject to variables that we can't know about or control.

That's what I think.

Life is not about rules of thumb and cliches. Those things are for people who lack critical thinking skills. It helps them make decisions when they can't figure out what to do.

Now why don't you quit assuming so much about Masonry? Haven't you noticed that most "conspiracy stuff" you read on the internet is complete rubbish". Project Camelot comes to mind.

Worry about yourself. Yes, it's easier to let your imagination run wild about what you think other people are doing than to take a look in the mirror. As a Mason, improving myself and keeping my nose out of my neighbors' business are priorities for me. Maybe you might learn from that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1811682



Ok, I'll try one more time, to get a straight answer.

Do masons carry out acts that are objectively immoral, in order to bring about a desired result?
I'm not interested in whether the result eventuates or not.
 Quoting: K.Kool


Masons are individual people. So, in their individual lives, they may do things which are against their own conscience in order to bring about a desired result. The same can be said about anyone.

The whole idea that "Masonry as a whole" has some type of "objective" is false. It's simply not true in the least.

The idea of "the end justifies the means" is one that YOU are employing. Look at what you are doing. You are making wild accusations about good people and even badgering them on the internet in order to achieve choir intended "end" of figuring out this perceived conspiracy.

I'd say that it might be you who has compromised her morals in order to achieve an "end".
K.Kool

User ID: 22462217
Australia
06/03/2013 09:48 AM

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Lol, you masons are such adroit side-steppers!

I'm asking the question as regards freemasonry (this thread is about freemasonry) and you as a freemason can answer if you want to clear up what freemasonry believes about objective morality, or not..

I don't believe an evil action, an immoral action, is justified, even if the desired result is 'good'.
If we all subscribed to the end justifies the means, we would descend into a state of corrupted chaos, is this what free masons want?
 Quoting: K.Kool


You know, life is more than cliches like "the end justifies the means". In fact, it's a meaningless cliche. No one can accurately predict an "end".

Take Hitler for example. He sought a "glorious end" which required "horrifying means". But guess what--the "end never came about--his plan was thwarted. So no one can say the means were justified (not even the most avid Nazi).

Take building a new church, for example. The preacher asks everyone in the congregation to dig deep and sacrifice hard to donate to the new church being built. Halfway through the construction, a tornado hits the building site. The new church is never built.

If the church would have been built, then the end (new church) would probably justify the means (sacrificing to donate). But since the church was never built, then the "end" was a hypothetical one and did not justify the means.

To say in any circumstance that a predicted "end" justifies a given "means" or method is an arrogant and feeble rationalization. That's because our predicted "end" is subject to variables that we can't know about or control.

That's what I think.

Life is not about rules of thumb and cliches. Those things are for people who lack critical thinking skills. It helps them make decisions when they can't figure out what to do.

Now why don't you quit assuming so much about Masonry? Haven't you noticed that most "conspiracy stuff" you read on the internet is complete rubbish". Project Camelot comes to mind.

Worry about yourself. Yes, it's easier to let your imagination run wild about what you think other people are doing than to take a look in the mirror. As a Mason, improving myself and keeping my nose out of my neighbors' business are priorities for me. Maybe you might learn from that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1811682



Ok, I'll try one more time, to get a straight answer.

Do masons carry out acts that are objectively immoral, in order to bring about a desired result?
I'm not interested in whether the result eventuates or not.
 Quoting: K.Kool


Masons are individual people. So, in their individual lives, they may do things which are against their own conscience in order to bring about a desired result. The same can be said about anyone.

The whole idea that "Masonry as a whole" has some type of "objective" is false. It's simply not true in the least.

The idea of "the end justifies the means" is one that YOU are employing. Look at what you are doing. You are making wild accusations about good people and even badgering them on the internet in order to achieve choir intended "end" of figuring out this perceived conspiracy.

I'd say that it might be you who has compromised her morals in order to achieve an "end".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2263358



Why belong to something that has no objective?

Some history from Germany, illustrating masonic activities in the political sphere:

"In Germany two-thirds of the Masons are members of the old Prussian Grand Lodges under the protectorship of a member of the Royal Dynasty, which implies a severe control of all lodge activity in conformity with the aims of the Government. Hence German Freemasons are scarcely capable of independent action. But they certainly furthered the movement by which Prussia gradually became the leading state of Germany, considered by them as the "representative and the protector of modern evolution" against "Ultramontanism", "bigotry", and "Papal usurpations". They also instigated the "Kulturkampf". The celebrated jurisconsult and Mason, Grandmaster Bluntschli, was one of the foremost agitators in this conflict; he also stirred up the Swiss "Kulturkampf". At his instigation the assembly of the "Federation of the German Grand Lodges", in order to increase lodge activity in the sense of the "Kulturkampf", declared, 24 May, 1874: "It is a professional duty for the lodges to see to it, that the brethren become fully conscious of the relations of Freemasonry to the sphere of ethical life and cultural purposes. Freemasons are obliged to put into effect the principles of Freemasonry in practical life and to defend the ethical foundations of human society, whensoever these are assailed. The Federation of the German Grand Lodges will provide, that every year questions of actuality be proposed to all lodges for discussion and uniform action". [155] German Freemasons put forth untiring efforts to exert a decisive influence on the whole life of the nation in keeping with Masonic principles, thus maintaining a perpetual silent "Kulturkampf". The principal means which they employ are popular libraries, conferences, the affiliation of kindred associations and institutions, the creation, where necessary, of new institutions, through which the Masonic spirit permeates the nation."

[link to www.newadvent.org]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2263358
Germany
06/03/2013 09:50 AM
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Re: FreeMasons - truth
...


I have passed one of their "meritocratic" tests that they use, and they ask for the "profane" to do things to my person while at work, "not even knowing what the ultimate aim is.."

So it is not only Masons who do this. This is the whole society.

That is the main ethical problem involved in gang-stalking.

THE WORLD IS SHITTY FROM TOP TO BOTTOM.

Truly a garbage society.

No wonder Masons love to do so much coke.
 Quoting: TruthMinion



If they do so much coke, it's due to their guilty consciences for making the world so shitty.
 Quoting: K.Kool


If your world is shirt, then take responsibility. My world is good. People still help one another. People feel each others' pain and celebrate each others' triumphs. Neighbors step in and help each other with no thought of reward. People are generous. Information and self-education are more free than ever. All the tools for success are available to more people in the world now more than at any time in history.

Life is GOOD. You would be a lot happier (and far less paranoid) if you would remember that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2263358



Still no straight answer, eh?

My own little personal world is good too, but that doesn't blind me to the injustices and suffering caused by many acts
that go against basic human morality, by those who stand to gain.
 Quoting: K.Kool


Service to others is one of the most fundamental tenets of Masonry. It is taught in the very first degree that a portion of every single day (if possible) should be devoted to helping others with no thought of reward.

There probably are people and groups of wealthy/powerful people who are willing to make others suffer for their own gain but to say that Masonry has anything to do with that only shows a complete misunderstanding of Masonry. Masonry is the exact OPPOSITE of that.
K.Kool

User ID: 22462217
Australia
06/03/2013 10:01 AM

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Re: FreeMasons - truth
"The outer work of Freemasonry, though uniform in its fundamental character and its general lines, varies considerably in different countries and different Masonic symbols. "Charitable"or "philanthropic" purposes are chiefly pursued by English, German, and American Masonry, while practically at least, they are neglected by Masons in the Latin countries, who are absorbed by political activity. But even in England, where relatively the largest sums are spent for charitable purposes, Masonic philanthropy does not seem to be inspired by very high ideals of generosity and disinterestedness, at least with respect to the great mass of the brethren; the principal contributions are made by a few very wealthy brethren and the rest by such as are well-to-do.

Moreover, in all countries it is almost exclusively Masons and their families that profit by Masonic charity. Masonic beneficence towards the "profane" world is little more than figurative, consisting in the propagation and application of Masonic principles by which Masons pretend to promote the welfare of mankind; and if Masons, particularly in Catholic countries, occasionally devote themselves to charitable works as ordinarily understood, their aim is to gain sympathy and thereby further their real purposes."

[link to www.newadvent.org]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2263358
Germany
06/03/2013 10:03 AM
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Re: FreeMasons - truth
...


You know, life is more than cliches like "the end justifies the means". In fact, it's a meaningless cliche. No one can accurately predict an "end".

Take Hitler for example. He sought a "glorious end" which required "horrifying means". But guess what--the "end never came about--his plan was thwarted. So no one can say the means were justified (not even the most avid Nazi).

Take building a new church, for example. The preacher asks everyone in the congregation to dig deep and sacrifice hard to donate to the new church being built. Halfway through the construction, a tornado hits the building site. The new church is never built.

If the church would have been built, then the end (new church) would probably justify the means (sacrificing to donate). But since the church was never built, then the "end" was a hypothetical one and did not justify the means.

To say in any circumstance that a predicted "end" justifies a given "means" or method is an arrogant and feeble rationalization. That's because our predicted "end" is subject to variables that we can't know about or control.

That's what I think.

Life is not about rules of thumb and cliches. Those things are for people who lack critical thinking skills. It helps them make decisions when they can't figure out what to do.

Now why don't you quit assuming so much about Masonry? Haven't you noticed that most "conspiracy stuff" you read on the internet is complete rubbish". Project Camelot comes to mind.

Worry about yourself. Yes, it's easier to let your imagination run wild about what you think other people are doing than to take a look in the mirror. As a Mason, improving myself and keeping my nose out of my neighbors' business are priorities for me. Maybe you might learn from that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1811682



Ok, I'll try one more time, to get a straight answer.

Do masons carry out acts that are objectively immoral, in order to bring about a desired result?
I'm not interested in whether the result eventuates or not.
 Quoting: K.Kool


Masons are individual people. So, in their individual lives, they may do things which are against their own conscience in order to bring about a desired result. The same can be said about anyone.

The whole idea that "Masonry as a whole" has some type of "objective" is false. It's simply not true in the least.

The idea of "the end justifies the means" is one that YOU are employing. Look at what you are doing. You are making wild accusations about good people and even badgering them on the internet in order to achieve choir intended "end" of figuring out this perceived conspiracy.

I'd say that it might be you who has compromised her morals in order to achieve an "end".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2263358



Why belong to something that has no objective?

Some history from Germany, illustrating masonic activities in the political sphere:

"In Germany two-thirds of the Masons are members of the old Prussian Grand Lodges under the protectorship of a member of the Royal Dynasty, which implies a severe control of all lodge activity in conformity with the aims of the Government. Hence German Freemasons are scarcely capable of independent action. But they certainly furthered the movement by which Prussia gradually became the leading state of Germany, considered by them as the "representative and the protector of modern evolution" against "Ultramontanism", "bigotry", and "Papal usurpations". They also instigated the "Kulturkampf". The celebrated jurisconsult and Mason, Grandmaster Bluntschli, was one of the foremost agitators in this conflict; he also stirred up the Swiss "Kulturkampf". At his instigation the assembly of the "Federation of the German Grand Lodges", in order to increase lodge activity in the sense of the "Kulturkampf", declared, 24 May, 1874: "It is a professional duty for the lodges to see to it, that the brethren become fully conscious of the relations of Freemasonry to the sphere of ethical life and cultural purposes. Freemasons are obliged to put into effect the principles of Freemasonry in practical life and to defend the ethical foundations of human society, whensoever these are assailed. The Federation of the German Grand Lodges will provide, that every year questions of actuality be proposed to all lodges for discussion and uniform action". [155] German Freemasons put forth untiring efforts to exert a decisive influence on the whole life of the nation in keeping with Masonic principles, thus maintaining a perpetual silent "Kulturkampf". The principal means which they employ are popular libraries, conferences, the affiliation of kindred associations and institutions, the creation, where necessary, of new institutions, through which the Masonic spirit permeates the nation."

[link to www.newadvent.org]
 Quoting: K.Kool


I can't speak for German Masons. I realize that my posts indicate that I am posting from Germany but that's a mistake. I'm American. For some reason, when I post from my phone, it says I'm posting from Germany.

But to address your concerns about what you posted above, I have to agree that it's pretty screwed up to organize a political action group under the guise of a Masonic Lodge. It reminds me of how some white supremacist groups here in the southern US have organized themselves under the guise of Baptist churches. But I would be really jumping the gun to assume that Baptists are in on some conspiracy. I love Baptists. They're some of the nicest, most generous people you'd ever meet.
TruthMinion

User ID: 41050306
Brazil
06/03/2013 10:04 AM

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Re: FreeMasons - truth
Life is GOOD. You would be a lot happier (and far less paranoid) if you would remember that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2263358


Paranoid! You know nothing about my life!

They make it miserable!

Can you imagine being watched and tested every fucking time you go to work???

With prostitutes who have NO CLUE? And who live in a society where they get shot just for stopping on a red light, because the masonic "brotherhood" MAKES IT SO????

Imbecile!
I am The 5D Raver!
[link to www.the5draver.info]
TruthMinion

User ID: 41050306
Brazil
06/03/2013 10:06 AM

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Re: FreeMasons - truth
If they do so much coke, it's due to their guilty consciences for making the world so shitty.
 Quoting: K.Kool


They LIKE to feel dirty.
I am The 5D Raver!
[link to www.the5draver.info]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2263358
Germany
06/03/2013 10:08 AM
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Re: FreeMasons - truth
"The outer work of Freemasonry, though uniform in its fundamental character and its general lines, varies considerably in different countries and different Masonic symbols. "Charitable"or "philanthropic" purposes are chiefly pursued by English, German, and American Masonry, while practically at least, they are neglected by Masons in the Latin countries, who are absorbed by political activity. But even in England, where relatively the largest sums are spent for charitable purposes, Masonic philanthropy does not seem to be inspired by very high ideals of generosity and disinterestedness, at least with respect to the great mass of the brethren; the principal contributions are made by a few very wealthy brethren and the rest by such as are well-to-do.

Moreover, in all countries it is almost exclusively Masons and their families that profit by Masonic charity. Masonic beneficence towards the "profane" world is little more than figurative, consisting in the propagation and application of Masonic principles by which Masons pretend to promote the welfare of mankind; and if Masons, particularly in Catholic countries, occasionally devote themselves to charitable works as ordinarily understood, their aim is to gain sympathy and thereby further their real purposes."

[link to www.newadvent.org]
 Quoting: K.Kool


Look at your source. What do they know? They're just one more group making assumptions.

Masons give with no thought of reward. Just as Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount, the people who proclaim their generosity get their rewards here on earth. Those who do it is secret get their reward in Heaven.

When a Mason helps, you'll never know it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2263358
Germany
06/03/2013 10:13 AM
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Re: FreeMasons - truth
Life is GOOD. You would be a lot happier (and far less paranoid) if you would remember that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2263358


Paranoid! You know nothing about my life!

They make it miserable!

Can you imagine being watched and tested every fucking time you go to work???

With prostitutes who have NO CLUE? And who live in a society where they get shot just for stopping on a red light, because the masonic "brotherhood" MAKES IT SO????

Imbecile!
 Quoting: TruthMinion


I'm sorry for your troubles but I doubt Masonry has anything to do with it unless Brazil is way more screwed up than I thought. But what you're describing sounds more like it might be psychiatric in nature. I could be wrong.
TruthMinion

User ID: 41050306
Brazil
06/03/2013 10:15 AM

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Re: FreeMasons - truth
Look at your source. What do they know? They're just one more group making assumptions.

Masons give with no thought of reward. Just as Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount, the people who proclaim their generosity get their rewards here on earth. Those who do it is secret get their reward in Heaven.

When a Mason helps, you'll never know it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2263358


Brasilia, capital of Brazil, is INFESTED with masons!

They took over government, and make the state institutions not work well, so that roads are in horrible conditions (in a country where you pay the most taxes in the world).

They then, through their brotherhood controlled press, make people think that the GOVERNMENT is incompetent. Then the brothers in the government gives concession so that brothers in the private sector can set up "road management" and "fix what the government didn't do" - all through a fee of course. (all bureaucrats are handsomelly compensated for such favors)

Stanley Kubrick, being the genius that he is, made a scathing critique of the "brotherhood" in Clockwork Orange.

No matter the bullshit you spew in here, it will not change:

The society we live in is rotten to the core, and Masonry is mostly responsible for it.

"You shall know them by their fruits."

Last Edited by TruthMinion on 06/03/2013 10:17 AM
I am The 5D Raver!
[link to www.the5draver.info]
TruthMinion

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Brazil
06/03/2013 10:15 AM

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Re: FreeMasons - truth
Life is GOOD. You would be a lot happier (and far less paranoid) if you would remember that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2263358


Paranoid! You know nothing about my life!

They make it miserable!

Can you imagine being watched and tested every fucking time you go to work???

With prostitutes who have NO CLUE? And who live in a society where they get shot just for stopping on a red light, because the masonic "brotherhood" MAKES IT SO????

Imbecile!
 Quoting: TruthMinion


I'm sorry for your troubles but I doubt Masonry has anything to do with it unless Brazil is way more screwed up than I thought. But what you're describing sounds more like it might be psychiatric in nature. I could be wrong.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2263358


You are wrong.

I could be The Nobody.

IMBECILE.

Last Edited by TruthMinion on 06/03/2013 10:17 AM
I am The 5D Raver!
[link to www.the5draver.info]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2263358
Germany
06/03/2013 10:24 AM
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Re: FreeMasons - truth
Life is GOOD. You would be a lot happier (and far less paranoid) if you would remember that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2263358


Paranoid! You know nothing about my life!

They make it miserable!

Can you imagine being watched and tested every fucking time you go to work???

With prostitutes who have NO CLUE? And who live in a society where they get shot just for stopping on a red light, because the masonic "brotherhood" MAKES IT SO????

Imbecile!
 Quoting: TruthMinion


I'm sorry for your troubles but I doubt Masonry has anything to do with it unless Brazil is way more screwed up than I thought. But what you're describing sounds more like it might be psychiatric in nature. I could be wrong.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2263358


You are wrong.

I could be The Nobody.

IMBECILE.
 Quoting: TruthMinion


Mentioning "the nobody" rodent't exactly help your case...

But what do I know?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2263358
Germany
06/03/2013 10:26 AM
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Re: FreeMasons - truth
...


Paranoid! You know nothing about my life!

They make it miserable!

Can you imagine being watched and tested every fucking time you go to work???

With prostitutes who have NO CLUE? And who live in a society where they get shot just for stopping on a red light, because the masonic "brotherhood" MAKES IT SO????

Imbecile!
 Quoting: TruthMinion


I'm sorry for your troubles but I doubt Masonry has anything to do with it unless Brazil is way more screwed up than I thought. But what you're describing sounds more like it might be psychiatric in nature. I could be wrong.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2263358


You are wrong.

I could be The Nobody.

IMBECILE.
 Quoting: TruthMinion


Mentioning "the nobody" rodent't exactly help your case...

But what do I know?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2263358


pardon me:

*doesn't

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