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Message Subject FreeMasons - truth
Poster Handle K.Kool
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Lol, you masons are such adroit side-steppers!

I'm asking the question as regards freemasonry (this thread is about freemasonry) and you as a freemason can answer if you want to clear up what freemasonry believes about objective morality, or not..

I don't believe an evil action, an immoral action, is justified, even if the desired result is 'good'.
If we all subscribed to the end justifies the means, we would descend into a state of corrupted chaos, is this what free masons want?
 Quoting: K.Kool

You know, life is more than cliches like "the end justifies the means". In fact, it's a meaningless cliche. No one can accurately predict an "end".

Take Hitler for example. He sought a "glorious end" which required "horrifying means". But guess what--the "end never came about--his plan was thwarted. So no one can say the means were justified (not even the most avid Nazi).

Take building a new church, for example. The preacher asks everyone in the congregation to dig deep and sacrifice hard to donate to the new church being built. Halfway through the construction, a tornado hits the building site. The new church is never built.

If the church would have been built, then the end (new church) would probably justify the means (sacrificing to donate). But since the church was never built, then the "end" was a hypothetical one and did not justify the means.

To say in any circumstance that a predicted "end" justifies a given "means" or method is an arrogant and feeble rationalization. That's because our predicted "end" is subject to variables that we can't know about or control.

That's what I think.

Life is not about rules of thumb and cliches. Those things are for people who lack critical thinking skills. It helps them make decisions when they can't figure out what to do.

Now why don't you quit assuming so much about Masonry? Haven't you noticed that most "conspiracy stuff" you read on the internet is complete rubbish". Project Camelot comes to mind.

Worry about yourself. Yes, it's easier to let your imagination run wild about what you think other people are doing than to take a look in the mirror. As a Mason, improving myself and keeping my nose out of my neighbors' business are priorities for me. Maybe you might learn from that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1811682

Ok, I'll try one more time, to get a straight answer.

Do masons carry out acts that are objectively immoral, in order to bring about a desired result?
I'm not interested in whether the result eventuates or not.
 Quoting: K.Kool

Masons are individual people. So, in their individual lives, they may do things which are against their own conscience in order to bring about a desired result. The same can be said about anyone.

The whole idea that "Masonry as a whole" has some type of "objective" is false. It's simply not true in the least.

The idea of "the end justifies the means" is one that YOU are employing. Look at what you are doing. You are making wild accusations about good people and even badgering them on the internet in order to achieve choir intended "end" of figuring out this perceived conspiracy.

I'd say that it might be you who has compromised her morals in order to achieve an "end".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2263358

Why belong to something that has no objective?

Some history from Germany, illustrating masonic activities in the political sphere:

"In Germany two-thirds of the Masons are members of the old Prussian Grand Lodges under the protectorship of a member of the Royal Dynasty, which implies a severe control of all lodge activity in conformity with the aims of the Government. Hence German Freemasons are scarcely capable of independent action. But they certainly furthered the movement by which Prussia gradually became the leading state of Germany, considered by them as the "representative and the protector of modern evolution" against "Ultramontanism", "bigotry", and "Papal usurpations". They also instigated the "Kulturkampf". The celebrated jurisconsult and Mason, Grandmaster Bluntschli, was one of the foremost agitators in this conflict; he also stirred up the Swiss "Kulturkampf". At his instigation the assembly of the "Federation of the German Grand Lodges", in order to increase lodge activity in the sense of the "Kulturkampf", declared, 24 May, 1874: "It is a professional duty for the lodges to see to it, that the brethren become fully conscious of the relations of Freemasonry to the sphere of ethical life and cultural purposes. Freemasons are obliged to put into effect the principles of Freemasonry in practical life and to defend the ethical foundations of human society, whensoever these are assailed. The Federation of the German Grand Lodges will provide, that every year questions of actuality be proposed to all lodges for discussion and uniform action". [155] German Freemasons put forth untiring efforts to exert a decisive influence on the whole life of the nation in keeping with Masonic principles, thus maintaining a perpetual silent "Kulturkampf". The principal means which they employ are popular libraries, conferences, the affiliation of kindred associations and institutions, the creation, where necessary, of new institutions, through which the Masonic spirit permeates the nation."

[link to www.newadvent.org]
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