Peter was not the "rock". Only Jesus holds the keys to the kingdom. PROOF the papacy is based in major error.

that's it. bane is at hand.

:bane hammer:

What does "PROOF" matter?
Jesus Witnesses about those who are unable to hear and see with their hearts... HE Witnesses the Parable of The Sower in Matt 13:1-9 and then in verse 10, The Apostles ask HIM, Why do you teach using parables?....
10. And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11. He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:


15. For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


16. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17. For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.



Hearts Waxed Gross.... Unable to Hear The Gospel...

Yet, they still look for "Proofs", seeking with intellect; through "study"; but still lacking heart...




Got no witness? Never Seen or Known HIM and never been Given To Know The Mysteries Of Heaven? Then you ain't (yet) Born-Again...

Might read John 14 if you really think Jesus was "training the disciples". Phillip says "Shew us The Father and we will believe". Jesus is shaken and dismayed.

John 14
1. Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5. Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.


8. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10. Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.



Jesus was used to having HIS Witness fail.
To Nicodemus, HE Says: "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?" John 3:11-12

Nicodemus wanted to Believe and Accept Jesus, but just couldn't grasp the idea of being Born-Again...

Most can't, or are unwilling.
Many are called but few are chosen...


Few choose to Trust God Completely.
Most think they've studied enough or figured it all out some other way. Such presumption.


Here is More From Matthew ch 7. Again verses 21-23 dealing with those who presume; but including the rest of the chapter which details those who don't build on rock...

21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


24. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.


28. And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29. For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.


Maranatha!!!

If I told people that I believed a welder from Trenton, New Jersey was whacked by Paulie and Tony and rose two weeks later and that one of his welding helpers was the father of the church, and that I worshiped said welder, I would be justifiably tazed.

One can know the teachings of Christ passed down from the Apostles.
The truth has not changed. You are assured, the Pope is given a gift by God, he can never error on faith and morals. As in the Old God does not leave us without an earthly leader. There is no earthly leader of Protestantism, the fruit, every Protestant is their own Pope, picking and choosing what they believe.

Peter, the first Pope, is buried under the high altar in St. Peter's Basilica. Sharing proof of Apostolic Succession. Can you trace back your belief? I read in history, Protestantism, the beginning, the revolt from faith, the date was October 31, 1517.

Come to the faith, the true faith. That we all believe the same, Jesus' prayer.

_________


St. Peter (32-67)
St. Linus (67-76)
St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
St. Clement I (88-97)
St. Evaristus (97-105)
St. Alexander I (105-115)
St. Sixtus I (115-125) Also called Xystus I
St. Telesphorus (125-136)
St. Hyginus (136-140)
St. Pius I (140-155)
St. Anicetus (155-166)
St. Soter (166-175)
St. Eleutherius (175-189)
St. Victor I (189-199)
St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
St. Callistus I (217-22) Callistus and the following three popes were opposed by St. Hippolytus, antipope (217-236)
St. Urban I (222-30)
St. Pontain (230-35)
St. Anterus (235-36)
St. Fabian (236-50)
St. Cornelius (251-53) Opposed by Novatian, antipope (251)
St. Lucius I (253-54)
St. Stephen I (254-257)
St. Sixtus II (257-258)
St. Dionysius (260-268)
St. Felix I (269-274)
St. Eutychian (275-283)
St. Caius (283-296) Also called Gaius
St. Marcellinus (296-304)
St. Marcellus I (308-309)
St. Eusebius (309 or 310)
St. Miltiades (311-14)
St. Sylvester I (314-35)
St. Marcus (336)
St. Julius I (337-52)
Liberius (352-66) Opposed by Felix II, antipope (355-365)
St. Damasus I (366-83) Opposed by Ursicinus, antipope (366-367)
St. Siricius (384-99)
St. Anastasius I (399-401)
St. Innocent I (401-17)
St. Zosimus (417-18)
St. Boniface I (418-22) Opposed by Eulalius, antipope (418-419)
St. Celestine I (422-32)
St. Sixtus III (432-40)
St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61)
St. Hilarius (461-68)
St. Simplicius (468-83)
St. Felix III (II) (483-92)
St. Gelasius I (492-96)
Anastasius II (496-98)
St. Symmachus (498-514) Opposed by Laurentius, antipope (498-501)
St. Hormisdas (514-23)
St. John I (523-26)
St. Felix IV (III) (526-30)
Boniface II (530-32) Opposed by Dioscorus, antipope (530)
John II (533-35)
St. Agapetus I (535-36) Also called Agapitus I
St. Silverius (536-37)
Vigilius (537-55)
Pelagius I (556-61)
John III (561-74)
Benedict I (575-79)
Pelagius II (579-90)
St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604)
Sabinian (604-606)
Boniface III (607)
St. Boniface IV (608-15)
St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18)
Boniface V (619-25)
Honorius I (625-38)
Severinus (640)
John IV (640-42)
Theodore I (642-49)
St. Martin I (649-55)
St. Eugene I (655-57)
St. Vitalian (657-72)
Adeodatus (II) (672-76)
Donus (676-78)
St. Agatho (678-81)
St. Leo II (682-83)
St. Benedict II (684-85)
John V (685-86)
Conon (686-87)
St. Sergius I (687-701) Opposed by Theodore and Paschal, antipopes (687)
John VI (701-05)
John VII (705-07)
Sisinnius (708)
Constantine (708-15)
St. Gregory II (715-31)
St. Gregory III (731-41)
St. Zachary (741-52) Stephen II followed Zachary, but because he died before being consecrated, modern lists omit him
Stephen III (752-57)
St. Paul I (757-67)
Stephen IV (767-72) Opposed by Constantine II (767) and Philip (768), antipopes (767)
Adrian I (772-95)
St. Leo III (795-816)
Stephen V (816-17)
St. Paschal I (817-24)
Eugene II (824-27)
Valentine (827)
Gregory IV (827-44)
Sergius II (844-47) Opposed by John, antipope (855)
St. Leo IV (847-55)
Benedict III (855-58) Opposed by Anastasius, antipope (855)
St. Nicholas I (the Great) (858-67)
Adrian II (867-72)
John VIII (872-82)
Marinus I (882-84)
St. Adrian III (884-85)
Stephen VI (885-91)
Formosus (891-96)
Boniface VI (896)
Stephen VII (896-97)
Romanus (897)
Theodore II (897)
John IX (898-900)
Benedict IV (900-03)
Leo V (903) Opposed by Christopher, antipope (903-904)
Sergius III (904-11)
Anastasius III (911-13)
Lando (913-14)
John X (914-28)
Leo VI (928)
Stephen VIII (929-31)
John XI (931-35)
Leo VII (936-39)
Stephen IX (939-42)
Marinus II (942-46)
Agapetus II (946-55)
John XII (955-63)
Leo VIII (963-64)
Benedict V (964)
John XIII (965-72)
Benedict VI (973-74)
Benedict VII (974-83) Benedict and John XIV were opposed by Boniface VII, antipope (974; 984-985)
John XIV (983-84)
John XV (985-96)
Gregory V (996-99) Opposed by John XVI, antipope (997-998)
Sylvester II (999-1003)
John XVII (1003)
John XVIII (1003-09)
Sergius IV (1009-12)
Benedict VIII (1012-24) Opposed by Gregory, antipope (1012)
John XIX (1024-32)
Benedict IX (1032-45) He appears on this list three separate times, because he was twice deposed and restored
Sylvester III (1045) Considered by some to be an antipope
Benedict IX (1045)
Gregory VI (1045-46)
Clement II (1046-47)
Benedict IX (1047-48)
Damasus II (1048)
St. Leo IX (1049-54)
Victor II (1055-57)
Stephen X (1057-58)
Nicholas II (1058-61) Opposed by Benedict X, antipope (1058)
Alexander II (1061-73) Opposed by Honorius II, antipope (1061-1072)
St. Gregory VII (1073-85) Gregory and the following three popes were opposed by Guibert ("Clement III"), antipope (1080-1100)
Blessed Victor III (1086-87)
Blessed Urban II (1088-99)
Paschal II (1099-1118) Opposed by Theodoric (1100), Aleric (1102) and Maginulf ("Sylvester IV", 1105-1111), antipopes (1100)
Gelasius II (1118-19) Opposed by Burdin ("Gregory VIII"), antipope (1118)
Callistus II (1119-24)
Honorius II (1124-30) Opposed by Celestine II, antipope (1124)
Innocent II (1130-43) Opposed by Anacletus II (1130-1138) and Gregory Conti ("Victor IV") (1138), antipopes (1138)
Celestine II (1143-44)
Lucius II (1144-45)
Blessed Eugene III (1145-53)
Anastasius IV (1153-54)
Adrian IV (1154-59)
Alexander III (1159-81) Opposed by Octavius ("Victor IV") (1159-1164), Pascal III (1165-1168), Callistus III (1168-1177) and Innocent III (1178-1180), antipopes
Lucius III (1181-85)
Urban III (1185-87)
Gregory VIII (1187)
Clement III (1187-91)
Celestine III (1191-98)
Innocent III (1198-1216)
Honorius III (1216-27)
Gregory IX (1227-41)
Celestine IV (1241)
Innocent IV (1243-54)
Alexander IV (1254-61)
Urban IV (1261-64)
Clement IV (1265-68)
Blessed Gregory X (1271-76)
Blessed Innocent V (1276)
Adrian V (1276)
John XXI (1276-77)
Nicholas III (1277-80)
Martin IV (1281-85)
Honorius IV (1285-87)
Nicholas IV (1288-92)
St. Celestine V (1294)
Boniface VIII (1294-1303)
Blessed Benedict XI (1303-04)
Clement V (1305-14)
John XXII (1316-34) Opposed by Nicholas V, antipope (1328-1330)
Benedict XII (1334-42)
Clement VI (1342-52)
Innocent VI (1352-62)
Blessed Urban V (1362-70)
Gregory XI (1370-78)
Urban VI (1378-89) Opposed by Robert of Geneva ("Clement VII"), antipope (1378-1394)
Boniface IX (1389-1404) Opposed by Robert of Geneva ("Clement VII") (1378-1394), Pedro de Luna ("Benedict XIII") (1394-1417) and Baldassare Cossa ("John XXIII") (1400-1415), antipopes
Innocent VII (1404-06) Opposed by Pedro de Luna ("Benedict XIII") (1394-1417) and Baldassare Cossa ("John XXIII") (1400-1415), antipopes
Gregory XII (1406-15) Opposed by Pedro de Luna ("Benedict XIII") (1394-1417), Baldassare Cossa ("John XXIII") (1400-1415), and Pietro Philarghi ("Alexander V") (1409-1410), antipopes
Martin V (1417-31)
Eugene IV (1431-47) Opposed by Amadeus of Savoy ("Felix V"), antipope (1439-1449)
Nicholas V (1447-55)
Callistus III (1455-58)
Pius II (1458-64)
Paul II (1464-71)
Sixtus IV (1471-84)
Innocent VIII (1484-92)
Alexander VI (1492-1503)
Pius III (1503)
Julius II (1503-13)
Leo X (1513-21)
Adrian VI (1522-23)
Clement VII (1523-34)
Paul III (1534-49)
Julius III (1550-55)
Marcellus II (1555)
Paul IV (1555-59)
Pius IV (1559-65)
St. Pius V (1566-72)
Gregory XIII (1572-85)
Sixtus V (1585-90)
Urban VII (1590)
Gregory XIV (1590-91)
Innocent IX (1591)
Clement VIII (1592-1605)
Leo XI (1605)
Paul V (1605-21)
Gregory XV (1621-23)
Urban VIII (1623-44)
Innocent X (1644-55)
Alexander VII (1655-67)
Clement IX (1667-69)
Clement X (1670-76)
Blessed Innocent XI (1676-89)
Alexander VIII (1689-91)
Innocent XII (1691-1700)
Clement XI (1700-21)
Innocent XIII (1721-24)
Benedict XIII (1724-30)
Clement XII (1730-40)
Benedict XIV (1740-58)
Clement XIII (1758-69)
Clement XIV (1769-74)
Pius VI (1775-99)
Pius VII (1800-23)
Leo XII (1823-29)
Pius VIII (1829-30)
Gregory XVI (1831-46)
Blessed Pius IX (1846-78)
Leo XIII (1878-1903)
St. Pius X (1903-14)
Benedict XV (1914-22) Biographies of Benedict XV and his successors will be added at a later date
Pius XI (1922-39)
Pius XII (1939-58)
Blessed John XXIII (1958-63)
Paul VI (1963-78)
John Paul I (1978)
Blessed John Paul II (1978-2005)
Benedict XVI (2005-2013)
Francis (2013—)

Oh you have proof with something related to religion? L M F A O.

I believe the rock relates to the sexual energy and being able to control it with the work on the mind and on the emotional system.
Peter relates to the sexual energy
There's plenty of stuff indicating that, but I just got home and Ima lazy boy.

Just throwing that in and bumping to see further posts

edit: your definition of it can easily be what I said, in a way.

Last Edited by 1908247 on 06/05/2013 03:05 PM

I do not condone the use of these " devil stars " for rating threads

Should be bananas instead

If we would lift the taboo on normal sexuality! A man and a woman wantin' to fuck! Then a lot of the deviance would subside.

I can admit to myself that there are men, other than me, that my wife finds sexually desirable and viceversa. She doesn't need to be stoned, hit, or 'pray' it away.

If Channing Tatum gets my wife hot and gets me laid, good. If Amy Farah Fowler or Gemma Atterton slips into my thoughts when my wife and I are headboard bouncing, oh well.

I'm always curious, why the prohibition on fucking? Oh, because it is easier to manipulate homosexual acts if one denies a man the natural urge to fuck a woman! It's easier to make the deviant feel normal, if he makes normal desire a sin!

If you are a Bible Alone believer, you can read prefigured in the Old and Peter's
authority is seen throughout the Gospel. It is God's plan, He would not leave
Christianity without an earthly leader. Here are a couple of examples.

God was/is ahead of the game:

_ _ _ _ _

Jesus asks his disciples Who He really is. When Peter responds with “Thou art Christ the Son of the Living God”, He tells him that God revealed this divine truth to him directly. Thus, Peter has exhibited the ability to make infallible declarations of doctrine (this ability is the basis of papal infallibility).



John Salza (Catholic apologist) notes that this ability that Peter exhibits had nothing to do with faith (all the apostles had faith) nor certainly with his education or intelligence, for the Gospels establish that Peter was “illiterate and ignorant” (Acts 4:13). God, it seems, very often chooses deliberately the weakest vessels through which to act, for that serves to underscore all the more that it is He that is doing the acting.



The changing of Peter’s name was obviously a symbolic act, implying a “title” and a change of status, and Scripture is replete other examples of name changes carrying the same connotations. Keating: “Giving a new name meant that the status of the person was changed, as when Abram was changed to Abraham (Gen 17:5); Jacob to Israel (Gen 32:38); Eliacim to Joakim (2 Kings 23:34); and Daniel, Ananias, Misael, and Azarias to Baltassar, Sidrach, Misach, And Abdenago (Dan 1:6-8). But no Jew had ever been called Rock because that was reserved for God.”

read more at [link to www.catholicthinker.net]

biblegateway.com John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

"nd I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven"

Pope,

What if you're wrong? Come on, please read history. And using vulgar language doesn't help your mocking of the faith. It makes people draw toward the good. Give up using the -f- word, all vulgarity. Choose it, you can do this Pope M.

I have to look, there is a verse in Scripture that shows something logical,
celibacy is a higher thing, the person is giving up something pleasurable
for God. Paul was a celibate.


God bless you,

Jesus just said two things:

1. "Religion ist BS"

2. "Find God in yourself"

Thats really all he said.

So, according to many Catholics, Christians, and Muslims. And these are documented statements of church and mosque leaders, I am sinning if I jerk off to photos of Gemma Atterton or Rose McGowan.

However, if I am a priest and I fuck a little boy, or I am a morehamhead follower and take me a ten year old bride to screw, well then, it's that child's fault for being to 'desirable', doesn't this sum up many of the statements of many of our finer religious leaders?

Yes that is correct - the RC has it wrong!

Peter = "petros" = *piece* of that rock

Rock = "petra" = *rock* period

Wrong about what? It being normal for an adult man and an adult woman wanting to fuck? Jesus, if I'm wrong on that one, well, I'll have plenty of company in hell.

I thought I would be in partial disagreement with this thread when I clicked it, but I believe that you are spot-on.

The ROCK is the confession that Jesus is the Christ.

And I tell you that you are Peter (petros), and on this rock (petra) I will build my church

Peter is the petros, which is a small rock or stone.

The confession is the petra, which is a large stone, rock cliff or ledge.

please do not derail my thread with this stuff.
start your own thread.
thanks in advance

:freedom1:

A little bit at a time, there is so much, no one likes to read long writings.

God has it planned out. So many parallels found in the Old. Jesus who is
God alway knew perfectly what to say. Yes, we all agree on that...

He did not get it wrong ever, you must come to the faith.

_ _ _

Jews in Christ’s time were, of course, anticipating the coming of the Messiah who would restore David’s kingdom (established around 1,000 BC, and which God promised would endure forever). In David’s kingdom, the king would appoint a steward to rule in his absence, and this steward was given a “key” symbolizing this authority. First century Jews would have immediately understood that Christ’s use of the word “key” to symbolize authority was a parallel to the Davidic kingdom. (“The Old Testament is the New concealed, but the New Testament is the Old revealed", as Augustine said.)



The story of the steward Eliacim is frequently cited in reference to Peter’s stewardship. Here is a relevant passage from Isaiah:



[21] And I will clothe him with thy robe, and will strengthen him with thy girdle, and will give thy power into his hand: and he shall be as a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Juda. [22] And I will lay the key of the house of David upon his shoulder: and he shall open, and none shall shut: and he shall shut, and none shall open. [23] And I will fasten him as a peg in a sure place, and he shall be for a throne of glory to the house of his father. [24] And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father's house, divers kinds of vessels, every little vessel, from the vessels of cups even to every instrument of music. [25] In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall the peg be removed, that was fastened in the sure place: and it shall be broken and shall fall: and that which hung thereon, shall perish, because the Lord hath spoken it. (Isaiah 22:21-25)



Note the many parallels between this passage, which it seems apparent Christ had in mind when addressing Peter, and Matthew 16:



Jesus is now ascending the throne of David, and He too now appoints a steward
Eliacim is described as a “father” over a “household” with authority
What he “opens” and “shuts” (binds & looses) no one shall oppose


According to Jewish Tradition King Hezekiah was the most close “type” of the Messiah. God even “raised him up” from death (sickness) on the third day! In this typology Christ is the new Hezekiah and Peter the new Eliacim.



Steve Ray Notes, “The parallels between Peter and Eliakim [sic] are striking. The physical kingdom of Israel has been superseded by the spiritual kingdom of God. The office of steward in the old economy is now superseded by the Petrine office with the delegation and handing on of the keys. The office of steward was successive, and so is the Petrine office in the new kingdom."

A perfect god

Creates imperfect beings

And then blames them

For his mistakes

Well, that's quite a bit more gnostic that Christian.

Try these:

1. People matter to God.
2. God doesn't keep score.
3. Everything else is a detail.

stop beeing religious!

take your life in your own hands.

God is passive, just watching whats happens.

God is NOT a player! HE/SHE/IT made the rules BEFORE he/she/it built the universe.

There's no chance to influence the physical law!!!!

God is Karma.

Be nice to others. Others will be nice to you.
Thats the whole law.

All the things Peter said and did while Our Lord was still on the earth and after that you read in Acts and the oral Word passed down. Peter was a simple normal man like any of us. God is marvelous. I wasn't familiar with Acts 4:13 so I looked it up. The Sadducees didn't know what to do with Peter and John. They witnessed their miracles.

Now seeing the constancy of Peter and of John, understanding that they were illiterate and ignorant men, they wondered; and they knew them that they had been with Jesus.

agreed Salt.

I cringed the day the Pope wd as elected and Megyn Kelley said on Fox News - as FACT - not saying it was her opinion - that Jesus appointed Peter the the first pope. "as everyone knows" she said. Yeah, thans for alieniating half the country Megyn.

Jesus is the messiah and figuratively the son of the living God. God has many sons figuratively and:

Romans 8:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

and Jesus is just a man. not a god

Acts 2:22

King James Version (KJV)

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

All you have to do is Google "how many sons does God have in the bible"?

If i am led by the spirit of God, i'd be the son of God as well.

And even if the rock was Peter, so?
That would simply mean Jesus was building His church upon the Apostles who along with the prophets are the foundation of the church, Eph. 2:20.
The Apostles taught that sinners are saved by the grace of God by trusting in the shed blood of the Lamb of God. That's important because cults teach that salvation can only be obtained by belonging to 'their church'.
That makes the Catholic Church one of the biggest cults in the world.
"Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ." -Eph. 2:8

Peter said, "There is salvation in no one else." Acts 4:12

Jesus spoke Aramaic, so he actually called Peter Kepha, when translated into Greek they have to use the feminine form for some reason.

How do you know what Jesus said 2000 years ago?