Right And Wrong Are Not Relative Or Variable - It Is Instinctual | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 40630164 United States 06/05/2013 07:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Shingen User ID: 33279727 United States 06/05/2013 07:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You must not be very attentive to detail - look at historical examples, not just the bible, and if there is a conflict - that is worth debate. Your frustrations are pointless if you have nothing of substance to bring to the table. Quoting: Rising Son Since your initial premise is flawed, there is no table to bring anything to. "Anarchism is not a romantic fable but the hardheaded realization, based of five thousand years of experience, that we cannot entrust the management of our lives to kings, priests, politicians, generals, or county commissioners." - Edward Abbey "But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." -Lysander Spooner "If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skin into their clothing, and if we're very very lucky, they'll do it in that order." - Firefly |
justoneofyou User ID: 20573069 United States 06/05/2013 07:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | In college, they teach the opposite way. Quoting: In college 39800819 It is quite annoying, but it does make one more tolerant and, perhaps, better able to relate to diverse persons (such as one's colleagues in his/her employment). I believe that there is innate sense that it is wrong to murder, to blaspheme, to lie, to steal and perhaps a few other things. I doubt there is an innate sense that it is wrong to masturbate. I'm certain there is no innate sense that it is wrong to do many things that are forbidden by the Bible. I'm not sure where socially constructed starts and natural law ends. The Bible doesn't just state prohibitions; it also states affirmative duties. Those are more difficult. Even if we agree that there is a "natural law" (i.e., an innate sense of right and wrong), it would seem easier to agree what is out of the question (e.g., rape, child molestation, etc.) than what must be done. For example, is it easy to agree that "thou shall honor thy father and thy mother" in all cases? What if said parents were in fact rapists or child molesters? And can we all agree what "honoring" ones parents entails. These questions are difficult, and no satisfactory answers are available. Nevertheless, I agree that contemporary America would do better to study them, than to descend further into the legal positivism that is currently in vogue. I don't believe you have to use the word in that context, and asking for consensus on the definition of the term is just an attempt at trying to prove your point. If your parents are rapists or child molesters you would still honor them as your parents. Doesn't mean you have to follow what they do.. You can forgive, and be the bigger person. You can try and help them fix their wrongs, or you can choose to not associate with them. Either way, they are your parents and you should honor(acknowledge) them. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? |
LIL' ANGEL User ID: 1053878 United States 06/05/2013 07:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Today, whenever anyone mentions the difference between right and wrong, they are usually inundated with responses that right and wrong depend on the observer and their background, or that it depends on the circumstances. We are led to believe that there is no universal concept of what is right, and what is wrong. Often, the contrary examples used by these purveyors are those of savage cultures and uncivilized societies, as if the mere existence of evil is grounds for the illegitimacy of good. Quoting: Rising Son I am here to say that there is a universal right and wrong, a standardized good and evil, and despite what contemporary scholars may tell you, these things have never changed. I reference the bible, not because it is associated with religion, but because it is the best history book we have available to us. No matter what you may read in the bible, no matter what your political, spiritual, or philosophical leanings may be, the good people usually survive while the evil people do not. I do not want anyone to take my word, I want you to just take a look at the bible and cross-reference it with history. Put aside your bias and stereotypes, and you will find that unless you adhere to the principles of right and wrong as outlined in the bible, you WILL die according to historical examples. This reckoning may not even relate to the life that people have chosen to live, but the reckoning happens nonetheless. You can either call the bible a collection of misguided, false texts while you suffer and die, or you can open your eyes and understand God's Laws. As always, it is your choice. Choose wisely... Rising Son I love reading your threads and your posts! 5 stars and Green Karma! Your a Blessing! God Bless you! I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Jesus Christ Stay small(in ego), stay teachable(in life), stay in the basics(keep it simple) and pay attention(to guidance). me Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does. anonymous |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 41162092 United States 06/05/2013 07:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Today, whenever anyone mentions the difference between right and wrong, they are usually inundated with responses that right and wrong depend on the observer and their background, or that it depends on the circumstances. We are led to believe that there is no universal concept of what is right, and what is wrong. Often, the contrary examples used by these purveyors are those of savage cultures and uncivilized societies, as if the mere existence of evil is grounds for the illegitimacy of good. Quoting: Rising Son I am here to say that there is a universal right and wrong, a standardized good and evil, and despite what contemporary scholars may tell you, these things have never changed. I reference the bible, not because it is associated with religion, but because it is the best history book we have available to us. No matter what you may read in the bible, no matter what your political, spiritual, or philosophical leanings may be, the good people usually survive while the evil people do not. I do not want anyone to take my word, I want you to just take a look at the bible and cross-reference it with history. Put aside your bias and stereotypes, and you will find that unless you adhere to the principles of right and wrong as outlined in the bible, you WILL die according to historical examples. This reckoning may not even relate to the life that people have chosen to live, but the reckoning happens nonetheless. You can either call the bible a collection of misguided, false texts while you suffer and die, or you can open your eyes and understand God's Laws. As always, it is your choice. Choose wisely... Yes, wonderfully said OP. I did a piece in college called "There are no gray areas." I know this is political, but there is a lot of good stuff in it relating to what you are saying. It's John Porter East's essay on Leo Strauss and Plato. It is AWESOME. [link to www.mmisi.org] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 41162092 United States 06/05/2013 07:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Today, whenever anyone mentions the difference between right and wrong, they are usually inundated with responses that right and wrong depend on the observer and their background, or that it depends on the circumstances. We are led to believe that there is no universal concept of what is right, and what is wrong. Often, the contrary examples used by these purveyors are those of savage cultures and uncivilized societies, as if the mere existence of evil is grounds for the illegitimacy of good. Quoting: Rising Son I am here to say that there is a universal right and wrong, a standardized good and evil, and despite what contemporary scholars may tell you, these things have never changed. I reference the bible, not because it is associated with religion, but because it is the best history book we have available to us. No matter what you may read in the bible, no matter what your political, spiritual, or philosophical leanings may be, the good people usually survive while the evil people do not. I do not want anyone to take my word, I want you to just take a look at the bible and cross-reference it with history. Put aside your bias and stereotypes, and you will find that unless you adhere to the principles of right and wrong as outlined in the bible, you WILL die according to historical examples. This reckoning may not even relate to the life that people have chosen to live, but the reckoning happens nonetheless. You can either call the bible a collection of misguided, false texts while you suffer and die, or you can open your eyes and understand God's Laws. As always, it is your choice. Choose wisely... Yes, wonderfully said OP. I did a piece in college called "There are no gray areas." I know this is political, but there is a lot of good stuff in it relating to what you are saying. It's John Porter East's essay on Leo Strauss and Plato. It is AWESOME. [link to www.mmisi.org] DON"T pass it over. Give it a look. I have a feeling you will enjoy it as much as me. [link to www.mmisi.org] |
Shingen User ID: 33279727 United States 06/05/2013 07:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "Right" and "wrong" are concepts that are almost always products of cultural and social programming, and have absolutely nothing to do with a book that was written 400 years ago. Sorry. "Anarchism is not a romantic fable but the hardheaded realization, based of five thousand years of experience, that we cannot entrust the management of our lives to kings, priests, politicians, generals, or county commissioners." - Edward Abbey "But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." -Lysander Spooner "If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skin into their clothing, and if we're very very lucky, they'll do it in that order." - Firefly |
Rising Son (OP) User ID: 2344624 United States 06/05/2013 07:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You must not be very attentive to detail - look at historical examples, not just the bible, and if there is a conflict - that is worth debate. Your frustrations are pointless if you have nothing of substance to bring to the table. Quoting: Rising Son Since your initial premise is flawed, there is no table to bring anything to. Don't forget that your observation is of your opinion in it's own right, based off of the opinions of others. There is no other book in history that you could reference that holds the validity that the bible does. "Be still, and know that I am God." Psalm 46:10 Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood. Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. [link to www.youtube.com (secure)] |
LIL' ANGEL User ID: 1053878 United States 06/05/2013 07:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 30 yrs ago I had a run in with a Cornell University Philosophy major about right and wrong, I never went there again with them or anyone like them.... Oh Brother Your a breath of Fresh air Rising Son. Last Edited by Lost Angel on 06/05/2013 07:33 PM I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Jesus Christ Stay small(in ego), stay teachable(in life), stay in the basics(keep it simple) and pay attention(to guidance). me Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does. anonymous |
AgnosticDeity User ID: 38006051 United States 06/05/2013 07:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That is exactly why I told you to cross reference historical examples - but you must have skipped that part in order to skewer anyone who believes differently than you do. Quoting: Rising Son You're free to believe as you choose. However, if you don't want opposing viewpoints, then don't bring your shit to a public forum. Thanx. You must not be very attentive to detail - look at historical examples, not just the bible, and if there is a conflict - that is worth debate. Your frustrations are pointless if you have nothing of substance to bring to the table. I'll bring a few things to your "table" [link to news.discovery.com] What did this child do to deserve to die this way? [link to www.trinidadandtobagonews.com] Or this little girl? [link to www.dailymail.co.uk] Maybe in its 3 days of life this infant had some time to commit atrocities? The lists go on and on and these probably aren't the worst of them. Either your "God" is unaware of these things happening, unable to stop them, doesn't exist, or just doesn't give a flying shit! Either way I'll not praise or trust it's flawed word as a moral compass. There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. |
Shingen User ID: 33279727 United States 06/05/2013 07:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Don't forget that your observation is of your opinion in it's own right, based off of the opinions of others. There is no other book in history that you could reference that holds the validity that the bible does. Quoting: Rising Son True, my observation are my personal opinion. I would disagree about the validity of the Bible. In Western 'christian' histories, possibly. In world histories, not so much. "Anarchism is not a romantic fable but the hardheaded realization, based of five thousand years of experience, that we cannot entrust the management of our lives to kings, priests, politicians, generals, or county commissioners." - Edward Abbey "But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." -Lysander Spooner "If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skin into their clothing, and if we're very very lucky, they'll do it in that order." - Firefly |
Rising Son (OP) User ID: 2344624 United States 06/05/2013 07:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "Right" and "wrong" are concepts that are almost always products of cultural and social programming, and have absolutely nothing to do with a book that was written 400 years ago. Quoting: Shingen Sorry. Intelligent consternation demands that you explore all possible explanations and understandings of a particular subject or topic. Since you are intent on naming every reason not to read the bible, I am assuming that you have not read it. I would venture to say that you have chosen instead to take others' word for it, and demonize the validity of the book. In that case, there is no reasoning with you, because your choice of whose word to take is worthless compared to your own opinion. Think for yourself... "Be still, and know that I am God." Psalm 46:10 Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood. Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. [link to www.youtube.com (secure)] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 26795689 United States 06/05/2013 07:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wait a minute, in your thread title you indicate that 'right' and 'wrong' are INSTINCTUAL, yet in the body of your post you boldly proclaim that one must adhere to the principles found in the BIBLE or else one will 'die'???? If that knowledge you speak of must be found in a book then it's NOT 'instinctual' - if it is 'instinctual', then no book is required to obtain that knowledge and one therefore needs to find it WITHIN. You are contradicting your own thread title by telling people they must source this 'instinctual' knowlege in a book. Additionally, EVERYONE dies regardless of how a person lives their life. Is this not universally understood? There are 'bad' people who die of old age, there are 'good' people who die from violence, accidents, diseases, - there are innocent children who are killed before they even reach adulthood. What does any of this have to do with whether or not one reads bible??? Morality is SUBJECTIVE to each individual and history proves this time & time again - the sooner you arrive at this realization, the better. |
Shingen User ID: 33279727 United States 06/05/2013 07:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Intelligent consternation demands that you explore all possible explanations and understandings of a particular subject or topic. Since you are intent on naming every reason not to read the bible, I am assuming that you have not read it. I would venture to say that you have chosen instead to take others' word for it, and demonize the validity of the book. In that case, there is no reasoning with you, because your choice of whose word to take is worthless compared to your own opinion. Think for yourself... Quoting: Rising Son Ad hominem attacks against me will do nothing to shore up the illogic of your argument. Yes, I have read the Bible. No, I don't buy into the bullshit. "Anarchism is not a romantic fable but the hardheaded realization, based of five thousand years of experience, that we cannot entrust the management of our lives to kings, priests, politicians, generals, or county commissioners." - Edward Abbey "But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." -Lysander Spooner "If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skin into their clothing, and if we're very very lucky, they'll do it in that order." - Firefly |
Shingen User ID: 33279727 United States 06/05/2013 07:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Hit the wrong button Last Edited by Shingen on 06/05/2013 07:39 PM "Anarchism is not a romantic fable but the hardheaded realization, based of five thousand years of experience, that we cannot entrust the management of our lives to kings, priests, politicians, generals, or county commissioners." - Edward Abbey "But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." -Lysander Spooner "If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skin into their clothing, and if we're very very lucky, they'll do it in that order." - Firefly |
Shingen User ID: 33279727 United States 06/05/2013 07:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Last Edited by Shingen on 06/05/2013 07:39 PM "Anarchism is not a romantic fable but the hardheaded realization, based of five thousand years of experience, that we cannot entrust the management of our lives to kings, priests, politicians, generals, or county commissioners." - Edward Abbey "But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." -Lysander Spooner "If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skin into their clothing, and if we're very very lucky, they'll do it in that order." - Firefly |
r7 User ID: 35488930 United Kingdom 06/05/2013 07:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
justoneofyou User ID: 20573069 United States 06/05/2013 07:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wait a minute, in your thread title you indicate that 'right' and 'wrong' are INSTINCTUAL, yet in the body of your post you boldly proclaim that one must adhere to the principles found in the BIBLE or else one will 'die'???? If that knowledge you speak of must be found in a book then it's NOT 'instinctual' - if it is 'instinctual', then no book is required to obtain that knowledge and one therefore needs to find it WITHIN. You are contradicting your own thread title by telling people they must source this 'instinctual' knowlege in a book. Quoting: ANHEDONIC Additionally, EVERYONE dies regardless of how a person lives their life. Is this not universally understood? There are 'bad' people who die of old age, there are 'good' people who die from violence, accidents, diseases, - there are innocent children who are killed before they even reach adulthood. What does any of this have to do with whether or not one reads bible??? Morality is SUBJECTIVE to each individual and history proves this time & time again - the sooner you arrive at this realization, the better. You're assuming everyone has the same definition of death.. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? |
Rising Son (OP) User ID: 2344624 United States 06/05/2013 07:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That is exactly why I told you to cross reference historical examples - but you must have skipped that part in order to skewer anyone who believes differently than you do. Quoting: Rising Son You're free to believe as you choose. However, if you don't want opposing viewpoints, then don't bring your shit to a public forum. Thanx. You must not be very attentive to detail - look at historical examples, not just the bible, and if there is a conflict - that is worth debate. Your frustrations are pointless if you have nothing of substance to bring to the table. I'll bring a few things to your "table" [link to news.discovery.com] What did this child do to deserve to die this way? [link to www.trinidadandtobagonews.com] Or this little girl? [link to www.dailymail.co.uk] Maybe in its 3 days of life this infant had some time to commit atrocities? The lists go on and on and these probably aren't the worst of them. Either your "God" is unaware of these things happening, unable to stop them, doesn't exist, or just doesn't give a flying shit! Either way I'll not praise or trust it's flawed word as a moral compass. I assumed this topic would surface, even though it has no bearing on the subject of this thread. Regardless of that fact, I will entertain your doubt: Why do bad things happen to good or otherwise innocent people. That is the underlying theme of the links you included. I will tell you that the answer is yours to conclude or discover, but I will tell you my own to give you some perspective of my mindset: I believe that God allows bad things to happen to good people in order to give those individuals an opportunity to rise above their negative circumstances on their own, as well as to show those around them what is possible with faith. Look at most who survive horrible ordeals or experiences, and see who they are most thankful for - unless you undergo an experience like that yourself, it is virtually impossible to speak for these people. Most often, they talk of the preciousness of life, rather than the existence of God. Go figure... "Be still, and know that I am God." Psalm 46:10 Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood. Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. [link to www.youtube.com (secure)] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 40176721 United States 06/05/2013 07:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I have always used a simple premise to determine what is right vs wrong: I ask myself "Does/Will what I am about to do benefit more and harm less if any?" OR "Does/Will what I am about to do cause more harm to others than will benefit?" Your reply is flat wrong in my opinion as it provides nothing positive - only negative. Thanks for playing..... NEXT! |
AgnosticDeity User ID: 38006051 United States 06/05/2013 07:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wait a minute, in your thread title you indicate that 'right' and 'wrong' are INSTINCTUAL, yet in the body of your post you boldly proclaim that one must adhere to the principles found in the BIBLE or else one will 'die'???? If that knowledge you speak of must be found in a book then it's NOT 'instinctual' - if it is 'instinctual', then no book is required to obtain that knowledge and one therefore needs to find it WITHIN. You are contradicting your own thread title by telling people they must source this 'instinctual' knowlege in a book. Quoting: ANHEDONIC Additionally, EVERYONE dies regardless of how a person lives their life. Is this not universally understood? There are 'bad' people who die of old age, there are 'good' people who die from violence, accidents, diseases, - there are innocent children who are killed before they even reach adulthood. What does any of this have to do with whether or not one reads bible??? Morality is SUBJECTIVE to each individual and history proves this time & time again - the sooner you arrive at this realization, the better. You're assuming everyone has the same definition of death.. [link to www.merriam-webster.com] Definition of DEATH 1 a : a permanent cessation of all vital functions : the end of life — compare brain death b : an instance of dying <a disease causing many deaths> 2 a : the cause or occasion of loss of life <drinking was the death of him> b : a cause of ruin <the slander that was death to my character — Wilkie Collins> 3 capitalized : the destroyer of life represented usually as a skeleton with a scythe 4: the state of being dead 5 a : the passing or destruction of something inanimate <the death of vaudeville> b : extinction 6: civil death 7: slaughter 8 Christian Science : the lie of life in matter : that which is unreal and untrue — at death's door : close to death : critically ill — to death : beyond endurance : excessively <bored to death> This is the only definition of death. Anything else is non-standard, and therefore WRONG! There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. |
Shingen User ID: 33279727 United States 06/05/2013 07:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Your reply is flat wrong in my opinion as it provides nothing positive - only negative. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40176721 Thanks for playing..... NEXT! Well, thankfully reality is a balance between positive and negative forces. One can not exist without the other. "Anarchism is not a romantic fable but the hardheaded realization, based of five thousand years of experience, that we cannot entrust the management of our lives to kings, priests, politicians, generals, or county commissioners." - Edward Abbey "But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." -Lysander Spooner "If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skin into their clothing, and if we're very very lucky, they'll do it in that order." - Firefly |
Rising Son (OP) User ID: 2344624 United States 06/05/2013 07:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Intelligent consternation demands that you explore all possible explanations and understandings of a particular subject or topic. Since you are intent on naming every reason not to read the bible, I am assuming that you have not read it. I would venture to say that you have chosen instead to take others' word for it, and demonize the validity of the book. In that case, there is no reasoning with you, because your choice of whose word to take is worthless compared to your own opinion. Think for yourself... Quoting: Rising Son Ad hominem attacks against me will do nothing to shore up the illogic of your argument. Yes, I have read the Bible. No, I don't buy into the bullshit. If you think that I am attacking you, then my intentions have been grossly misinterpreted. I am simply trying to expose you to a different mindset and thought process, rather than that of reoccurring skeptic. Again, whatever words I type, it has no bearing or purpose behind the individual feeling and spiritualism you feel when you experience that power of God. "Be still, and know that I am God." Psalm 46:10 Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood. Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. [link to www.youtube.com (secure)] |
Pyractomena borealis User ID: 20793638 United States 06/05/2013 07:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Sexual mutilation of infant boys without their permission. Wrong. There is nothing so powerful as truth, and often nothing so strange ~ Daniel Webster Omnia Vincit Amor ~ Virgil The more you learn, the less you know ~ Socrates That writer does the most, who gives his reader the most knowledge, and takes from him the least time. ~ Charles Caleb Colton |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 26795689 United States 06/05/2013 07:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I'm not assuming, I'm using the context that was provided by the post in question. OP said: "good people usually survive while evil people do not" & "you will die according to historical examples" You tell me which definition of 'death' you believe the OP is referencing in this context. |
AgnosticDeity User ID: 38006051 United States 06/05/2013 07:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Shingen You're free to believe as you choose. However, if you don't want opposing viewpoints, then don't bring your shit to a public forum. Thanx. You must not be very attentive to detail - look at historical examples, not just the bible, and if there is a conflict - that is worth debate. Your frustrations are pointless if you have nothing of substance to bring to the table. I'll bring a few things to your "table" [link to news.discovery.com] What did this child do to deserve to die this way? [link to www.trinidadandtobagonews.com] Or this little girl? [link to www.dailymail.co.uk] Maybe in its 3 days of life this infant had some time to commit atrocities? The lists go on and on and these probably aren't the worst of them. Either your "God" is unaware of these things happening, unable to stop them, doesn't exist, or just doesn't give a flying shit! Either way I'll not praise or trust it's flawed word as a moral compass. I assumed this topic would surface, even though it has no bearing on the subject of this thread. Regardless of that fact, I will entertain your doubt: Why do bad things happen to good or otherwise innocent people. That is the underlying theme of the links you included. I will tell you that the answer is yours to conclude or discover, but I will tell you my own to give you some perspective of my mindset: I believe that God allows bad things to happen to good people in order to give those individuals an opportunity to rise above their negative circumstances on their own, as well as to show those around them what is possible with faith. Look at most who survive horrible ordeals or experiences, and see who they are most thankful for - unless you undergo an experience like that yourself, it is virtually impossible to speak for these people. Most often, they talk of the preciousness of life, rather than the existence of God. Go figure... You in your original post said that people who do evil die in horrible ways where people who do good pass peacefully. How is this not relevant. There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. |
Shingen User ID: 33279727 United States 06/05/2013 07:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you think that I am attacking you, then my intentions have been grossly misinterpreted. I am simply trying to expose you to a different mindset and thought process, rather than that of reoccurring skeptic. Again, whatever words I type, it has no bearing or purpose behind the individual feeling and spiritualism you feel when you experience that power of God. Quoting: Rising Son My mindset is based on reason and evidence. "Anarchism is not a romantic fable but the hardheaded realization, based of five thousand years of experience, that we cannot entrust the management of our lives to kings, priests, politicians, generals, or county commissioners." - Edward Abbey "But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." -Lysander Spooner "If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skin into their clothing, and if we're very very lucky, they'll do it in that order." - Firefly |
Rising Son (OP) User ID: 2344624 United States 06/05/2013 07:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Rising Son You must not be very attentive to detail - look at historical examples, not just the bible, and if there is a conflict - that is worth debate. Your frustrations are pointless if you have nothing of substance to bring to the table. I'll bring a few things to your "table" [link to news.discovery.com] What did this child do to deserve to die this way? [link to www.trinidadandtobagonews.com] Or this little girl? [link to www.dailymail.co.uk] Maybe in its 3 days of life this infant had some time to commit atrocities? The lists go on and on and these probably aren't the worst of them. Either your "God" is unaware of these things happening, unable to stop them, doesn't exist, or just doesn't give a flying shit! Either way I'll not praise or trust it's flawed word as a moral compass. I assumed this topic would surface, even though it has no bearing on the subject of this thread. Regardless of that fact, I will entertain your doubt: Why do bad things happen to good or otherwise innocent people. That is the underlying theme of the links you included. I will tell you that the answer is yours to conclude or discover, but I will tell you my own to give you some perspective of my mindset: I believe that God allows bad things to happen to good people in order to give those individuals an opportunity to rise above their negative circumstances on their own, as well as to show those around them what is possible with faith. Look at most who survive horrible ordeals or experiences, and see who they are most thankful for - unless you undergo an experience like that yourself, it is virtually impossible to speak for these people. Most often, they talk of the preciousness of life, rather than the existence of God. Go figure... You in your original post said that people who do evil die in horrible ways where people who do good pass peacefully. How is this not relevant. You referenced children - before they are able to choose between right and wrong. I am speaking about adults who have had the opportunity to choose. "Be still, and know that I am God." Psalm 46:10 Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood. Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. [link to www.youtube.com (secure)] |
LeoVonFrost User ID: 13502299 United States 06/05/2013 07:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I believe that God allows bad things to happen to good people in order to give those individuals an opportunity to rise above their negative circumstances on their own Quoting: Rising Son The premature infants didn't have an opportunity to rise above their circumstances and if god lets kids die in horrible ways to show us that faith is important then that god is doing evil in my opinion. |
AgnosticDeity User ID: 38006051 United States 06/05/2013 07:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: AgnosticDeity I'll bring a few things to your "table" [link to news.discovery.com] What did this child do to deserve to die this way? [link to www.trinidadandtobagonews.com] Or this little girl? [link to www.dailymail.co.uk] Maybe in its 3 days of life this infant had some time to commit atrocities? The lists go on and on and these probably aren't the worst of them. Either your "God" is unaware of these things happening, unable to stop them, doesn't exist, or just doesn't give a flying shit! Either way I'll not praise or trust it's flawed word as a moral compass. I assumed this topic would surface, even though it has no bearing on the subject of this thread. Regardless of that fact, I will entertain your doubt: Why do bad things happen to good or otherwise innocent people. That is the underlying theme of the links you included. I will tell you that the answer is yours to conclude or discover, but I will tell you my own to give you some perspective of my mindset: I believe that God allows bad things to happen to good people in order to give those individuals an opportunity to rise above their negative circumstances on their own, as well as to show those around them what is possible with faith. Look at most who survive horrible ordeals or experiences, and see who they are most thankful for - unless you undergo an experience like that yourself, it is virtually impossible to speak for these people. Most often, they talk of the preciousness of life, rather than the existence of God. Go figure... You in your original post said that people who do evil die in horrible ways where people who do good pass peacefully. How is this not relevant. You referenced children - before they are able to choose between right and wrong. I am speaking about adults who have had the opportunity to choose. So what you are saying then is that in the grand scheme of things children don't count?!? Thats pretty messed up right there. There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. |