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Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout

 
Citizenperth
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06/09/2013 11:07 PM

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Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
[snip]
A future severe nuclear accident at a U.S. nuclear power plant is a real possibility. In 2011 five nuclear power plants in the United States lost primary power due to earthquake or extreme weather events, including tornados, hurricanes, and flooding. Fortunately backup power systems kicked in at these plants and a disaster was averted. But weather is not the only risk factor. Other risk factors include:

Type of reactor – There are two types of reactors operating it the United States: Boiling Water Reactors (BWRs) and Pressurized Water Reactors (PWRs). Some experts judge that the design and structure of BWRs do not protect against the release of radiation during a severe accident as effectively as PWRs. The four reactors involved in the Fukushima nuclear crisis were BWRs. On the map, NRDC experts assigned a red flag to a reactor if it is a BWR.
Age of reactor – Reactors were designed to operate for 40 years, yet the regulatory body that oversees nuclear safety in the United States, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, has re-licensed some nuclear power plants to operate for 60 years, well beyond their originally engineered design lifetime. On the map, NRDC experts assigned a red flag to a reactor if the NRC has approved the reactor to operate for 60 years.
Power level of reactor – The NRC has approved many utility operators to increase the operating power of their nuclear reactors, including for Fukushima-type reactors, and in some cases multiple times and to significantly higher power levels. These so-called "power uprates" push reactors beyond what they were originally engineered to do, and could increase the radiation hazard if a nuclear accident occurred. On the map, NRDC experts assigned a red flag if the NRC has granted a reactor a power uprate.
If a person received one rad of radiation from a nuclear accident, it would increase one's chance of getting cancer by 1 in 1,000 (averaged over all ages and both sexes). And although the NRC believes that the chances of a severe accident with fallout in a core meltdown for any one of the 104 U.S. nuclear reactors is small (probability of less than 1 in 10,000 per year), can we afford the risk? Millions of Japanese people were exposed to radiation from Fukushima, increasing their risk of developing cancer, and the cost of the Fukushima accident is projected to exceed US$100 billion, and the environmental effects will last for generations. What if a meltdown occurred at one of the 65 nuclear power plants in the United States?
[end snip]

pretty brutal stuff and a pic with projection map....

are you living near one?

[link to www.nrdc.org]

Last Edited by Citizenperth on 06/09/2013 11:09 PM
It's life as we know it, but only just.
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sic ut vos es vos should exsisto , denego alius vicis facio vos change , exsisto youself , proprie

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Anonymous Coward
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06/09/2013 11:13 PM
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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
I was watching Falling Skies tonight. If you blow them up in just the right way no radiation is released.
Citizenperth (OP)
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06/09/2013 11:15 PM

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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
I was watching Falling Skies tonight. If you blow them up in just the right way no radiation is released.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41149717


certainly a sane consideration.....
It's life as we know it, but only just.
My Fukushima Site:
[link to citizenperth.wordpress.com]
sic ut vos es vos should exsisto , denego alius vicis facio vos change , exsisto youself , proprie

GLP's best Fuku thread: Thread: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
twitter: @citizenperth
“If I had an hour to solve a problem and my life depended on it, I would use the first 55 minutes determining the proper question to ask, for once I knew the proper question, I could solve the problem in less than five minutes.”
- Albert Einstein
Anonymous Coward
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06/09/2013 11:20 PM
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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
Nukel-ear is good.
Anonymous Coward
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06/09/2013 11:33 PM
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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
Imagine emp or flare and all of them melting down at once. The movie "On the Beach" was the only film to hint at the reality.
Citizenperth (OP)
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06/09/2013 11:38 PM

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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
Imagine emp or flare and all of them melting down at once. The movie "On the Beach" was the only film to hint at the reality.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2674952




remake

original (follow links to the rest)



Last Edited by Citizenperth on 06/09/2013 11:48 PM
It's life as we know it, but only just.
My Fukushima Site:
[link to citizenperth.wordpress.com]
sic ut vos es vos should exsisto , denego alius vicis facio vos change , exsisto youself , proprie

GLP's best Fuku thread: Thread: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
twitter: @citizenperth
“If I had an hour to solve a problem and my life depended on it, I would use the first 55 minutes determining the proper question to ask, for once I knew the proper question, I could solve the problem in less than five minutes.”
- Albert Einstein
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2013 12:24 AM
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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
Imagine emp or flare and all of them melting down at once. The movie "On the Beach" was the only film to hint at the reality.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2674952


hmm...... i guess we shouldn't to worry too much about prepping for EMP
CJStryker

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06/10/2013 08:34 AM
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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout


What if nobody was around to take care of these places?

Would that happen in a national disaster?
Nostradamus Century 1: Quatrain 50
From the water trinity will be born,
One who will make Thursday as his holiday.
His renown, praise, rule, and power increase,
By land and sea to the East by storm.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2013 08:46 AM
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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
the NRC believes that the chances of a severe accident with fallout in a core meltdown for any one of the 104 U.S. nuclear reactors is small (probability of less than 1 in 10,000 per year)
 Quoting: Citizenperth

That is not small at all. It's about a 1% risk that an accident will happen in any given year to one reactor. In 10 years, that's about a 10% chance of a meltdown.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2013 08:54 AM
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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
He said, "Remember this, Dumitru. The Russian spies have discovered where the nuclear warehouses are in America. When the Americans will think that it is peace and safety - from the middle of the country, some of the people will start fighting against the government. The government will be busy with internal problems. Then from the ocean, from Cuba, Nicaragua, Mexico,..." (He told me two other countries, but I didn't remember what they were.) "...they will bomb the nuclear warehouses. When they explode, America will burn!"
Thread: Dumitru Duduman's Vision from 1984: America will burn in one day
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2013 09:01 AM
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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
pretty clever to build 104 nuclear power plants that require constant monitoring, eh?
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2013 09:02 AM
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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
just another form of control
ehecatl

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06/10/2013 09:45 AM
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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
...or imagine a neutrino burst from a far away source, and all these reactors going off all at once.

There are things about radiation that science does not fully understand yet.

Nuclear reactions
Neutrinos can interact with a nucleus, changing it to another nucleus. This process is used in radiochemical neutrino detectors. In this case, the energy levels and spin states within the target nucleus have to be taken into account to estimate the probability for an interaction. In general the interaction probability increases with the number of neutrons and protons within a nucleus.

Alteration of nuclear decay rate
A Russian study suggests that the decay rate of radioactive isotopes is not constant as is commonly believed,[16] and a recent study[17] also finds this, and says it appears to be affected by the rate of neutrinos emitted by the Sun.

Induced fission
Very much like neutrons do in nuclear reactors, neutrinos can induce fission reactions within heavy nuclei.

Supernovae
...Furthermore, the neutrino burst is expected to reach Earth before any electromagnetic waves, including visible light, gamma rays or radio waves. The exact time delay depends on the velocity of the shock wave and on the thickness of the outer layer of the star. For a Type II supernova, astronomers expect the neutrino flood to be released seconds after the stellar core collapse, while the first electromagnetic signal may emerge hours later.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

but you don't need something as exotic as neutrino bursts to screw with reactors.

The "system" (mess) of hazardous nuclear reactors around the world is a giant cluster-fuck waiting to go for any number of reasons.

If people simply walk away from them they will melt down and blow tons of fallout into the atmosphere and water.

If there were a God, he would say that this is completely unacceptable. But maybe God is off somewhere else playing.

Mother of God says, "Go back to oil lamps and horses! The Spirit does not give a shit about human technology."

mog
Waterbug

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06/10/2013 10:25 AM

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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
I was watching Falling Skies tonight. If you blow them up in just the right way no radiation is released.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41149717


certainly a sane consideration.....
 Quoting: Citizenperth



Only works efficiently before the meltdowns..
Long ago, I read an article which stated that this
was considered a viable option in the early hours of
the fiasco at fuku.

Is that why Tepco was abandoning the plant..?
It must be humiliating for them to be considered cowards
if they were merely booking to avoid the blast..

Atom boy..? Cowards or victims..?
Waterbug

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06/10/2013 10:32 AM

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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
the NRC believes that the chances of a severe accident with fallout in a core meltdown for any one of the 104 U.S. nuclear reactors is small (probability of less than 1 in 10,000 per year)
 Quoting: Citizenperth

That is not small at all. It's about a 1% risk that an accident will happen in any given year to one reactor. In 10 years, that's about a 10% chance of a meltdown.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1124145


Those stats are moot. Murphy's Law applies in any mechanical applications.. human error is a bonus.

We have 24 outdated and flawed reactors operating near major metro areas.
These are the old GE Mark I reactors... the same as those melting down in japan as we speak.
The containment is too small... they know this.
The torus was applied as a fix but the system is vulnerable to a loss-of-coolant event.
They knew this, used the system anyway... and got away with it until Fuku.

We have 24 of them, sizzling away, right here.

Feeling lucky..?
Waterbug

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06/10/2013 10:44 AM

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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
"The Spirit does not give a shit about human technology."


 Quoting: ehecatl



Amen, brother..
lulu the wonder cat
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06/10/2013 10:54 AM
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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
ya actually we have an accident coming for the southeast U.S.
Anonymous Coward
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06/10/2013 12:26 PM
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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
ANYTHING that requires the CONSTANT NONSTOP working of mechanical equipment AND trained personel in order to keep it from become a smoldering mass of danger for the next 10,000 years is temping fate ... and eventually fate WILL BITE BACK.

Easy to conceive scenarios:

Grid goes down (any reason) and for the same reason no more fuel can be delivered to fuel the backup power generators ... voila GUARANTEED meltdown.

Natural disaster, say EQ OR Tornado strike on plant, takes out both the power grid connection AND the backup power generators (we already KNOW that a tsunami can do this) ... voila GUARANTEED meltdown

A terrorist attack on a nuke plant takes out the power grid feeding it AND the backup generators ... don't even have to get into the control room or reactor building itself ... voila GUARANTEED meltdown

Some sort of disease or other event kills off the control room operators and replacements can't be found (hit by same disease) ... voila GUARANTEED meltdown

We already have had 4 major meltdown events (and several smaller ones), more are on the horizon GUARANTEED if we continue to operate Nuclear Power Plants as they are currently designed.

* Fermi 1 - Michigan US
* Three Mile Island - Pennsylvania US
* Chernobyl - USSR
* Fukushima - Japan

There have also been several NEAR meltdown scenarios ... but for luck, or the expert minute by minute managing of a deteriorating situation, they would have happened also.
ehecatl

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06/10/2013 08:41 PM
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Re: Why U.S. nuclear power plants are vulnerable to severe accident with nuclear fallout
ANYTHING that requires the CONSTANT NONSTOP working of mechanical equipment AND trained personel in order to keep it from become a smoldering mass of danger for the next 10,000 years is temping fate ... and eventually fate WILL BITE BACK.

Easy to conceive scenarios:

Grid goes down (any reason) and for the same reason no more fuel can be delivered to fuel the backup power generators ... voila GUARANTEED meltdown.

Natural disaster, say EQ OR Tornado strike on plant, takes out both the power grid connection AND the backup power generators (we already KNOW that a tsunami can do this) ... voila GUARANTEED meltdown

A terrorist attack on a nuke plant takes out the power grid feeding it AND the backup generators ... don't even have to get into the control room or reactor building itself ... voila GUARANTEED meltdown

Some sort of disease or other event kills off the control room operators and replacements can't be found (hit by same disease) ... voila GUARANTEED meltdown

We already have had 4 major meltdown events (and several smaller ones), more are on the horizon GUARANTEED if we continue to operate Nuclear Power Plants as they are currently designed.

* Fermi 1 - Michigan US
* Three Mile Island - Pennsylvania US
* Chernobyl - USSR
* Fukushima - Japan

There have also been several NEAR meltdown scenarios ... but for luck, or the expert minute by minute managing of a deteriorating situation, they would have happened also.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20589235

Don't forget the melt-down of the Santa Susana Field Laboratory Sodium Reactor in Simi-Valley CA.

It is admitted even by the officials to have released more isotopes into the environment than Three Mile Island, but was not even revealed to the public that it happened till more than a decade later, and it is still hardly known about, but the contamination is still measurable far and wide north of LA.

It is interesting, that the sodium reactor that they ran for 7 years, was testing the system that would have recycled all the nuclear waste that is piling up now from water reactors, and by passing the material between the two kinds of reactors would have yielded many times more energy from the same material, and neutralized almost all of the isotopes in the process.

The basic idea of producing power from just the first run on the control rods and not cycling it back and forth between water and sodium reactors would have been totally not acceptable to the founders of the technology.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

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