Would what Jesus told us in these verses show that everyone will go through the Tribulation? And the Rapture will be after the Tribulation..

nice post!, loved it!

Yep, agree. Throughout Biblical history, satan's seed are destroyed before God's elect inherit the earth. eg, Noah's flood - nephilim wiped out first. Same happening again - nephilim will be destroyed, and humans will inherit the earth.

There is no Jesus, no tribulation, and no rapture. Paul's entire picture was based on the "event" happening in his lifetime ... and it didn't. I suggest you start studying the approach of the modern biblical scholars. You can start here:

[link to www.earlychristianwritings.com]

When Paul speaks of "we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord" (1 Thes 4:15), he clearly expects the event in his own lifetime. But 2 Thes 2:3-12 sets out an elaborate program of what must first happen before that event can occur. Not only has the apocalyptic imagery changed, but the whole tenor of the expectation is different.

Many people take Mt. 24 as a Rapture passage, but the primary thrust of it is the trib and 2nd coming; the Rapture is not a "coming" since Jesus doesn't touch the earth. Below are my more detailed thoughts on that, though it was ruined by trolls:

Thread: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture

FAITH! FAITH IS THE KEY! TRUST IN JESUS TO PROTECT AND CARE FOR US NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS! STAY STRONG IN YOUR FAITH... and worry less about the rapture and if/when it will happen and worry more about keeping your faith knowing he will care for you and provide for you.

Our DEAR SAVIOR JESUS gave his life for us, he shed his blood on the cross and then conquered death and the grave and hell for us! And he promised that he would come for us. He promised us the forgiveness of sin. All he asks is that we believe in him and trust in him.

Like Peter, we may be tempted to deny Christ. Many of us will do so out of fear and threats. STAY STRONG and keep your faith. Ask for HIS HELP if you cannot do it on your own. There is great evil in this world and many evil things will happen before the end is come.

But I believe we are now in the final seven years (or very close) of this age. Those of us who hang on and trust may live to see the Return of Jesus and be changed in the twinkling of an eye.We could not save ourselves, and we have all sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. But we were given a 2nd chance after Adam disobeyed GOD in the Garden and brought sin into the world to afflict everything on or in this world.

The rapture will happen when GOD WILLS IT TO HAPPEN. And HE will take home those who he has chosen to take with him then and others will stay here and will "ride it out" protected and cared for by heavenly Angels and the power of GOD.

Do not be afraid. Man can but die ONCE. Satan and his minions can steal your soul and take the eternal life you were promised. Follow Jesus and pray to be counted worthy to escape this world and to spend eternity with Jesus. Rem!!ember GOD LOVED US SO MUCH HE GAVE HIS ONLY SON THAT WE SHOULD NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE

Old Testament: many books specifically addressed to Israel

Psalms: for Everyone
Proverbs: For Everyone

Gospels: For Everyone

Epistles: Addressed to Christians


Luke....a Gospel.....addressed to Everyone:



Christ:

"And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven."

"But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, and you will be brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake."

"But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony."

"Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist."

"You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will send some of you to your death.

"And you will be hated by all for My name's sake."

"But not a hair of your head shall be lost."

"In your patience possess your souls."

"Now when the dragon (satan) saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman (Israel) who gave birth to the male Child (Christ).

"But the woman (Israel) was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time (3.5 years), from the presence of the serpent.

"So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.

"But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

"And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."




(Salvation came to the Gentiles after Israel rejected their Messiah. The Gentiles were grafted into the natural branch. They are the offspring......the spiritual descendants of Abraham.....the Gentile Christians.)

Nice!

The disciples asked about signs of the end. Christ answered them. See Mt 24: 15-31

It starts at the mid-point of Daniel's 70th week when the abomination is set up.


The tribulation (small t: time of severe persecution by the man of evil; verses 16-22)


It will run for awhile......and then God will cut it short.....end it.....otherwise no flesh would be saved.


Verse 29-31: the elect will not simply vanish.....but actually be caught up by angels....verse 31.


"Immediately after the tribulation of those days (small t; immediately after the persecution has been ended by God)


"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened (6th Seal of Revelation)....


At the 6th Seal the rich elites become fearful.....and declare that God's wrath is about to began.

Then....the 144,000 of Israel are sealed from harm.
And......the Christians are caught up by the angels.


7th Seal.....God's wrath....comprising approx. the final one to two years of Daniel's 70th week.


Verse 31.....just prior to the 7th Seal:


"And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."


5th Seal: tribulation/persecution
6th Seal: worldwide darkness


Mark:

"But in those days, after the tribulation, the sun will be darkened (6th Seal), and the moon will not give its light;

"the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in heaven will be shaken.

"Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

"And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven." (the "rapture")


Then......7th Seal......God's wrath.

Why would we fly up in the air to meet him if he's coming down to earth? Makes no sense. Like a yoyo...going UP...going DOWNNNNNNN.

That's one reason I don't see any sense in a mid- or post-trib Rapture.

Beautiful post. God bless. xo

Yep! Jesus lands when we all come back and splits the mount of olives in two. Is not the same thing when he meets us in the air - no mention of coming back to earth - AT ALL.

go to hell

or back to it at any rate

it's the cowards that will rush to the antichrist believing he is Christ

all one has to do is remember which one comes first

pretty simple

cut and dried

the only place you'll be going if you don't forget about the rapture is for a free ride with lucy

capisce?

you either tough it out and don't run off with the first nice guy Christ that returns

or you fail to overcome

if you remember correctly Christ doesn't return like a lamb this time

and most of the goody two shoed christians will have already been plucked off by the fake

as butter won't melt in his mouth to your faces

but when your backs turned or your asleep it's another story

sadly most people will be kissing the ring of the enemy that serves to do them in in truth

with lies

In Revelation 14, the saints are harvested first.

I hold more to the prewrath view. The saints will be raptured just before the outpouring of God's wrath (the bowl judgments).

The church is absent in Rev. 4-18. The church is mentioned 17 times in the first three chapters of Revelation, but after John (a member of the church) is called up to heaven in chapter 4, he looks down on the events of the Tribulation and the church is not mentioned again until chapter 19, when the church returns to earth with her bridegroom at her side at his glorious appearing. The reason why is obvious because the church is not in the Tribulation. She is raptured to be with her Lord before it begins. This is according to The Left Behind Handbook by Tim LaHaye, Jerry B. Jenkins and Sandi L. Swanson. The church is delivered from the wrath to come. "One of the best promises guaranteeing the church's rapture before the Tribulation is found in Rev. 3-10: "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world to test those who dwell on the earth". Also see Thessalonians 1:10 and 5:9.

by "we who are alive" he meant we as Gods children, which applies to any and all of us both alive at that point and yet to come through flesh!

they ALL expected that it could happen at any moment whether they focused on that in their teaching or not!

that was what they were taught to teach, to be on guard throughout all generations and be watchmen for it's coming

he was doing exactly as he was instructed to do

and it had nothing to do with the fact that in truth it would take a good long while for all of us to pass through flesh, and this earth Age cannot and will not end until all the souls of Gods children have passed through or at least entered into flesh and/or the womb

if they had tried to add the burden of knowing such to what they were already trying to convey to people who were completely green to such teachings, the fact of the matter is many of them would have given up hope of that reprieve during the course of their lifetimes

there were 12 billion original souls created in the former Age as Gods children

in the early days on earth some lived for 900 years or so if you will recall

hence we are rushing through the remainder of those souls still at this point, and will be right up until the onset of the tribulation, or perhaps even after and throughout

for you to try to convince others that anything has changed in that regard is ludicrous

and you will find out shortly just how wrong you are

that or you already know how wrong you are and you are one of those entities who will either be blotted out shortly or trapped on the wrong side of the gulf hereupon

I'm not entirely sure which you'd like better in truth

are you?

Spot on OP.

That is why they do not take heed about the mark of the beast. If they think they will be raptured out of the way before the Tribulation, that means they will not be here to face it. Nevertheless, the mark occurs before the last trump.

Grace and Peace unto thee be multiplied.

if you have fallen prey to the rapture doctrine on any level then you can rest assured that you will be here throughout the bowl judgments (as you call them)

that's just the way it goes

it's not like you haven't been warned, or haven't had the opportunity to hear the truth

because you have

repeatedly

hence you will have to learn the hard way

but learn you shall

accordingly

He doesn't mean they will not ENDURE or SUFFER THROUGH the hour of trial, indeed they will, which is called the Hour of Temptation, but rather that they will NOT fall prey to being deceived and/or falling away during such... hence will not lose their place in the heirarchy of things to come...

and He is referring to His Election the saints in that comment, because they are the only ones who know and understand hence will be participating in said Hour of Temptation (which lasts 5 months by the way, it's just called "the hour of temptation")

people can read what they want into just about anything I find

and they do so readily I might add

to their own detriment in the doing

same thing they've done with the rapture doctrine lies

but learn they shall, it's up to them how they go about doing such

and when

it occurs to me that if you didn't have a vested interest in swaying minds in this regard you'd simply have passed this thread by...

hence I'd reference you as either a shill or the enemy in every regard

for the record

anyone who believes in the rapture has already been deceived and they have already fallen prey to the forthcoming deception

they just did it way early is all

trolls?

or those attempting to enlighten you to truth because they give a damn about your eternal soul?

as if you'd know the difference at this point, so heavily off into the rapture lie you are at present tense

it seems you haven't even been taught to whom God is speaking in any of the particular verses throughout scripture either

you seem to believe that every verse is applicable to whomsoever will

discounting the fact that His Election are those souls who were predestined to be here at this time in effort to ASSIST those who'd been deluded by the failure and lack of truth and awareness provided by the churches of this world

Yes, trolls. A troll is someone who HIJACKS A THREAD that clearly states in the OP that the purpose is simply to present the OP's viewpoint. Trolls also ignore the OP's pleas to stay on topic and just keep hammering on the OP personally.

"Attempting to enlighten me" is TROLLING in that context. It's also CONCEITED to presume that one's own opinion is more advanced or enlightened than another, when both of you are FALLIBLE human beings.

You have your OPINION and I have mine. Try to learn to respect other people as people and not JUDGE AND CONDEMN AND MOCK them for disagreeing with you.


Mocker. No more attention for you.

PS: Did you really write "present tense"?



Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 06/19/2013 08:25 AM

Matthew 13:24-30 was already quoted, mentioned that "in the time of the harvest" the tares (weeds) are burned up BEFORE the good wheat is gathered.

2 Thessalonians 1:5-10 tells us of the SUFFERING of the saints BEFORE Jesus comes to be glorified.

Matthew 24:6-8 Jesus tells of wars and rumors of wars, famines, earthquakes, etc - BEFORE the birth pangs.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 describes the antichrist entering the Temple and tells us not to let anyone deceive us when this occurs, which means we, the readers have not been raptured yet at the mid-trib point.

In Daniel 7:21-25 he warns us that the antichrist speaks against the Most High and persecutes the saints - who are not raptured away yet even after the half way point in tribulation.

No pre-trib rapture for us.

FWIW

Daniel twice brings us to 1967 when Israelis recaptured the Temple Mount; 2300 years after Alexander, and 1260+1290 years after the Babylonians. 45 years later we reach his 1335 years in 2012. Did seven years of tribulation begin with the Mayan end date? Astronomical references in the Bible say YES, and the antichrist enters the Temple 1260 days later on a 6/6/6 date - June 6, 2016 - as the Morningstar/Lucifer/Venus is behind/in the Sun/Temple. 3.5 years of hell later, the planets perform a week long Jewish wedding in the sky ending on Judgment Day in December 2019. For more info see

[link to endtimesand2019.webs.com]

nice post

that's because the "church" in question is not that body of christians who've been taught that they only have to believe upon Christ as their eternal savior and repent to become "the bride" nor those who believe the rapture doctrine which is given to the worlds churchs from satan, not God

the "church" referenced in these instances is referring to the Elect who will comprise that virgin church which is brought forth from the wilderness in the last days to stand before satan and the synegogue of same. these people will not be coming forth from any denonimational church, hence "wilderness" church

are you planning on doing such? being delivered up before the synegogue of satan?

if not, then you are not "that church" you keep referencing

the "bride" are any of those other than for the Election (the Elect are referenced in scripture as the "spouse" of Christ, not the bride, since they overcame in the former Age) that wake up and come out of delusion prior to the final Trumpet

there are only a mere 144,000 of these all told, and if you can't note the vast difference between that number and the number of Christian people on earth who've been educated in the churches of this world who believe they have what's required to overcome, then you aren't paying attention.

the number given as representative of Gods Election is 7000, but all those who hear the truth and come into the knowledge thereof will be incorporated into the final tally which will then constitute "the bride" as the Elect haven't yet enjoyed the "wedding feast" even though they've already "overcome" prior to being predestined to be born into this last generation

it's like beating our heads against a brick wall in effort to assist, I know that much

so be it for it be so