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Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity

 
ephemeral
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06/18/2013 01:20 PM
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Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
Known in philosophy as "Eternal recurrence" or, more completely, the eternal recurrence of the same—is the idea that everything that has happened or will happen (including one’s own life) has already occurred infinitely many times and will occur infinitely many more, without the slightest alteration in detail.

Here I present my evidence for the eternal recurrence of the same, that effectively is a hypothesis capable of explaining why everything and anything exists. First I will present two premises that has to be accepted as true for the conclusions to be valid:

Premise # 1: It as a given that the Universe exists, and that its properties necessarily must meet the premises that our existence rests upon. The reasoning for this is obvious: If the fundamental physical forces and constants hadn't been exactly the way they are, we hadn't existed, hence we couldn't have observed the properties that made our existence impossible in such a hypothetical universe. That the Universe and the Earth has exactly perfect, and seemingly "fine-tuned", properties for us to exist therefore is nothing but reasonable and downright necessary.

Premise # 2: Consciousness is a consequence of physical existence. The Universe consists of a large amount of energy/matter that to any given moment is in a certain condition. The flow between different conditions is labelled with the term 'time'. Consciousness arises as a consequence of energy/matter arranging itself in a certain condition/pattern in a limited amount of time. Consciousness isn't more mystical than the sum of an individual's senses and cognitive abilities/information processing. Hence, consciousness is a natural result of an advanced sensory apparatus and an advanced brain.

Conclusion # 1: If the Universe we live in is part of an everlasting cycle, the exact same universe will one time have to manifest again. Granted that consciousness is nothing more than the sum of the organism's body, your consciousness/life will sooner or later have to be repeated in the exact same world history.

Conclusion # 2: If, on the other hand, our Universe isn't part of an everlasting cycle, but quite the contrary is a phenomenon that has spontaneously arisen from nothing, it would have to mean that something/everything can spontaneously arise from nothing. Therefore other universes can also arise whenever "they like", and the probability for another universe that has the exact same properties/physical laws as ours, to never arise, given that it has an infinite amount of time to arise again, must therefore equal zero.

Final conclusion: It seems very unlikely that none of the preceding conclusions are correct. Therefore, one must assume that the hypothesis of the eternal recurrence really is true.

I'm going to live my life as a hedonist from this point on as I am convinced we will live it over and over and over again for all eternity. My ratio of pleasure over pain is 100/0 from this moment on. I recommend you all take on this mindset. Good luck ;)

bonghit
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06/18/2013 01:26 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
pleasure turns to pain when there is no pain to contrast it with
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2013 01:27 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
pleasure turns to pain when there is no pain to contrast it with
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41923364


pleasure can be boring,really boring
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2013 01:39 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
Do you actually believe life is all repetition & vain?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/18/2013 01:42 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
pleasure turns to pain when there is no pain to contrast it with
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41923364


pleasure can be boring,really boring
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41923364


No. happiness is boring. I have been flirting with the idea of using hedonism to justify my existence, or my motive of being and doing. However, rather than turn to alcoholism and whoring and gluttony in the way that pop culture has stereotyped "hedonists" to do, I looked into the matter and read about the paradox of hedonism, which of course centers around a defined difference between the terms of happiness and pleasure.

Why should these two terms be different? Additionally, can I claim to be a hedonist when I cause myself "pain" by making various efforts to ensure a "long term happiness", i.e. putting myself through higher education?

Oh, and one more thing: can I necessarily call myself a hedonist when I can only justify why certain things give me pleasure as being an innate, genetic, biological and therefore not always logical motivation? For example, it's not necessary to my survival to prefer rock and roll to ska, or vice versa, but it just... "appeals" to me, for a nameless reason. How do I rationalize this within my own philosophy?
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2013 01:43 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
Eternal recurrence, huh? Sounds like you've just described hell.
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2013 01:45 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
pleasure turns to pain when there is no pain to contrast it with
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41923364


pleasure can be boring,really boring
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41923364


No. happiness is boring. I have been flirting with the idea of using hedonism to justify my existence, or my motive of being and doing. However, rather than turn to alcoholism and whoring and gluttony in the way that pop culture has stereotyped "hedonists" to do, I looked into the matter and read about the paradox of hedonism, which of course centers around a defined difference between the terms of happiness and pleasure.

Why should these two terms be different? Additionally, can I claim to be a hedonist when I cause myself "pain" by making various efforts to ensure a "long term happiness", i.e. putting myself through higher education?

Oh, and one more thing: can I necessarily call myself a hedonist when I can only justify why certain things give me pleasure as being an innate, genetic, biological and therefore not always logical motivation? For example, it's not necessary to my survival to prefer rock and roll to ska, or vice versa, but it just... "appeals" to me, for a nameless reason. How do I rationalize this within my own philosophy?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26691506


I just think ya talking shit mate, each to their own i suppose.
MrAC2U

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06/18/2013 01:49 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
I relate this to the concept of infinity.

If the application of infinity is true and there exists a infinite multiverse, then OP is correct.

Anything and everything you could ever imagine is also happening somewhere.

They are here
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2013 01:50 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
That's all fine and dandy. Just because it appears able to go forever, or has the complexity concluding that it has gone on forever in perfection, doesn't mean this is predetermined. Or if this is the first time or the 1000th time.

We are infinitely complex, and our consciousness can not be describes so easily as electrical connections. We are of an essence unknown. Caught in the wheel.

The rest is uncertain.

I choose to believe we are paving a road of our choices, which will ultimately lead you to where you were born to go. Unless you change it.

Eternal choice. For our being knows know boundary.
Prostetnik

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06/18/2013 02:00 PM

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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
My traditional religion teaches that we are one life and each of us will live the experiences of all.
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2013 02:07 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
Nice.
508527

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06/18/2013 02:08 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
"I'm going to live my life as a hedonist from this point on as I am convinced we will live it over and over and over again for all eternity."

you said the exact same thing in your last life at the same age brian moran
geminilion
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06/18/2013 02:08 PM

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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
That would be the worst thing that could ever happen to me.
..."The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you choose, what you think, and what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny ... it is the light that guides your way."
Heraclitus
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/18/2013 02:10 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
I relate this to the concept of infinity.

If the application of infinity is true and there exists a infinite multiverse, then OP is correct.

Anything and everything you could ever imagine is also happening somewhere.

:They are here:
 Quoting: MrAC2U


Here is an article "Going round in circles""-
In contradiction to most cosmologists’ opinions, two scientists have found evidence that the universe may have existed for ever. One of those scientists is the one and only Roger Penrose and he believes that the Big Bang in which the visible universe began was not actually the beginning of everything. It was merely the latest example of an eternal series of bangs that renew reality when it is getting tired out. More importantly, he thinks that the pre-Big Bang past has left an imprint on the present that can be detected and analysed, and that he and a colleague in Armenia have found it.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/18/2013 02:12 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
I relate this to the concept of infinity.

If the application of infinity is true and there exists a infinite multiverse, then OP is correct.

Anything and everything you could ever imagine is also happening somewhere.

:They are here:
 Quoting: MrAC2U


Here is an article "Going round in circles""-
In contradiction to most cosmologists’ opinions, two scientists have found evidence that the universe may have existed for ever. One of those scientists is the one and only Roger Penrose and he believes that the Big Bang in which the visible universe began was not actually the beginning of everything. It was merely the latest example of an eternal series of bangs that renew reality when it is getting tired out. More importantly, he thinks that the pre-Big Bang past has left an imprint on the present that can be detected and analysed, and that he and a colleague in Armenia have found it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26691506


Sorry Here's the link:
[link to www.economist.com]
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2013 02:13 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
No consciousness follows the path of those before it, else all would be repetition and vain. Each consciousness in the cycle it exists in follows its own path to the ultimate goal. Each plays its part in the Plan of the Cosmos. Each plays its part in the ultimate end. The farther the cycle, the greater its knowledge and ability to blend the Law of the whole.

-Emerald Tablet 11: The Key to Above and Below
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2013 02:14 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
cont.

Know ye, that ye in the cycles below us are working the minor parts of the Law, while we of the cycle that extends to Infinity take of the striving and build greater Law.

Each has his own part to play in the cycles. Each has his work to complete in his way. The cycle below thee is yet not below thee but only formed for a need that exists. For know ye that the fountain of wisdom that sends forth the cycles is eternally seeking new powers to gain. Ye know that knowledge is gained only by practice, and wisdom comes forth only from knowledge, and thus are the cycles created by Law. Means are they for the gaining of knowledge for the Plane of Law that is the Source of the All. The cycle below is not truly below but only different in space and in time. The consciousness there is working and testing lesser things than those ye are. And know, just as ye are working on greater, so above ye are those who are also working as ye are on yet other laws. The difference that exists between the cycles is only in ability to work with the Law. We, who have being in cycles beyond thee, are those who first came forth from the Source and have in the passage through time-space gained ability to use Laws of the Greater that are far beyond the conception of man. Nothing there is that is really below thee but only a different operation of Law.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/18/2013 02:17 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
"I'm going to live my life as a hedonist from this point on as I am convinced we will live it over and over and over again for all eternity."

you said the exact same thing in your last life at the same age brian moran
 Quoting: 508527


Yes I did and I will now experience this second half of my life with as much pleasure over pain as I possibly can. I'd rather have an eternal second half life as fun as possible if it repeats forever. How is that Moranic?
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2013 02:18 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
I came over.

You came down.

byekitty
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06/18/2013 02:21 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
I relate this to the concept of infinity.

If the application of infinity is true and there exists a infinite multiverse, then OP is correct.

Anything and everything you could ever imagine is also happening somewhere.

:They are here:
 Quoting: MrAC2U


i like to think this is true, but also that our consciousness will experience each and every possibility in the universe at some point, so your worst possible nightmares will be a reality, but also your wildest dreams.
Lionelfrankenstein
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06/18/2013 02:22 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
When you break in a game of pool, the moment you set your cue ball in motion, all the collisions of the balls, and final resting points are immediately determined. We may not have the information required to calculate it intellectually, but nonetheless, everything that happens on that table was determined the moment you applied force to that cueball.

Perhaps our Universe is a much larger example of that scenario. The moment the big bang occurred, every particles trajectory was determined, from then until now, and until the end of time, and consciousness is merely an illusion. Our consciousness is not making the choices, it is merely observing the choices the physical brain is making and 'feeling' like it is making them. But in fact, every physical, electrical event occurring in your brain is a result of the previous event, and the previous, and so on, and so on.

We may never have the ability or information required to accurately gauge it, but every thing that is as it is right now, every atom, every particle, every wave, is a result of a causal event, which could theoretically be traced all the way back to the initial math of the Big Bang.

So the idea would be that whatever caused the Big Bang in the first place will inevitably happen again, and when it does, this exact universe, and ever event that occurred in it, will reoccur again. And when that chain of events reaches our current present, you'll be right back here again, living out your mortal years, oblivious to the fact that you've been here and done this an infinite amount of times.
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2013 02:26 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
We are the dreamers.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/18/2013 02:27 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
Eternal recurrence, huh? Sounds like you've just described hell.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41905881


Hell for some people, heaven for others. just like Nietzche writes, "What if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you, `This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence - even this spider and this moon-light between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence is turned upside down again and again, and you with it, speck of dust!' Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him, `You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine!!'"

Unfortunately I would probably more likely to do the former...
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2013 02:28 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
I relate this to the concept of infinity.

If the application of infinity is true and there exists a infinite multiverse, then OP is correct.

Anything and everything you could ever imagine is also happening somewhere.

:They are here:
 Quoting: MrAC2U


Here is an article "Going round in circles""-
In contradiction to most cosmologists’ opinions, two scientists have found evidence that the universe may have existed for ever. One of those scientists is the one and only Roger Penrose and he believes that the Big Bang in which the visible universe began was not actually the beginning of everything. It was merely the latest example of an eternal series of bangs that renew reality when it is getting tired out. More importantly, he thinks that the pre-Big Bang past has left an imprint on the present that can be detected and analysed, and that he and a colleague in Armenia have found it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26691506


yeah i used logic to think this out as a kid.. there cant be a start and an end to time, something cant come from nothing, so something allways has to have been there, and it could just as well be something as nothing... so it has to be a circle ... at some point you end up where you started, which means we're trapped in the lives we live now, forever

as one up here described, hell
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2013 02:29 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
We are the dreamers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41751187


That dreams the dream.
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2013 02:33 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
I relate this to the concept of infinity.

If the application of infinity is true and there exists a infinite multiverse, then OP is correct.

Anything and everything you could ever imagine is also happening somewhere.

:They are here:
 Quoting: MrAC2U


Here is an article "Going round in circles""-
In contradiction to most cosmologists’ opinions, two scientists have found evidence that the universe may have existed for ever. One of those scientists is the one and only Roger Penrose and he believes that the Big Bang in which the visible universe began was not actually the beginning of everything. It was merely the latest example of an eternal series of bangs that renew reality when it is getting tired out. More importantly, he thinks that the pre-Big Bang past has left an imprint on the present that can be detected and analysed, and that he and a colleague in Armenia have found it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26691506


yeah i used logic to think this out as a kid.. there cant be a start and an end to time, something cant come from nothing, so something allways has to have been there, and it could just as well be something as nothing... so it has to be a circle ... at some point you end up where you started, which means we're trapped in the lives we live now, forever

as one up here described, hell
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41633730


Yes it goes on forever, but you did not mention that it goes on into infinity. So thus the repetition that is being spoken in this thread is fallacy.
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2013 02:34 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
I relate this to the concept of infinity.

If the application of infinity is true and there exists a infinite multiverse, then OP is correct.

Anything and everything you could ever imagine is also happening somewhere.

:They are here:
 Quoting: MrAC2U


Here is an article "Going round in circles""-
In contradiction to most cosmologists’ opinions, two scientists have found evidence that the universe may have existed for ever. One of those scientists is the one and only Roger Penrose and he believes that the Big Bang in which the visible universe began was not actually the beginning of everything. It was merely the latest example of an eternal series of bangs that renew reality when it is getting tired out. More importantly, he thinks that the pre-Big Bang past has left an imprint on the present that can be detected and analysed, and that he and a colleague in Armenia have found it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26691506


yeah i used logic to think this out as a kid.. there cant be a start and an end to time, something cant come from nothing, so something allways has to have been there, and it could just as well be something as nothing... so it has to be a circle ... at some point you end up where you started, which means we're trapped in the lives we live now, forever

as one up here described, hell
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41633730


Yes it goes on forever, but you did not mention that it goes on into infinity. So thus the repetition that is being spoken in this thread is fallacy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41751187


Unless of course you want to live it all over again?
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2013 02:42 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
THIS THREAD IS DEEEEEEEEEP AS FUCK ! VERY INTERESTING !
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2013 02:44 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
doesnt work that way, sorry.


Hebrews 9:27

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/18/2013 02:50 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
yeah i used logic to think this out as a kid.. there cant be a start and an end to time, something cant come from nothing, so something allways has to have been there, and it could just as well be something as nothing... so it has to be a circle ... at some point you end up where you started, which means we're trapped in the lives we live now, forever

as one up here described, hell
 Quoting: MrAC2U


Do you really think it would be hell for somebody like Matthieu Ricard, the french buddhist-monk dubbed as the happiest man in the world??? I think not! Eternal bliss for that lucky bastard :P
Lionelfrankenstein
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06/18/2013 02:52 PM
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Re: Proof you will live this exact same life over and over again for all eternity
yeah i used logic to think this out as a kid.. there cant be a start and an end to time, something cant come from nothing, so something allways has to have been there, and it could just as well be something as nothing...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41633730




In the absence of anything, in utter nothingness, there is only the potential. Everything that *can* be, every potential kind of reality, the infinite number of possibilities. In this infinite primordial soup of concepts and worlds, there is one possible world where conscious observation of electromagnetism collapses waves of potential into particles of real. As this imaginary universe plays itself out among the other imaginary universes, in a quantum flux of never being real or unreal, it eventually gets to a point where it creates conscious life forms that can observe it. Upon observation, this fictional reality with these particular properties collapses all of it's potential waveforms from their states of quantum flux into actual particles, with measurable positions and velocities, and the universe emerges, already billions of years old.


Cliff Notes version:
In the absence of what is, there is everything that can be. One of these things that can be, is a universe that creates itself...so it does. And here we are.

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