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I have a question about the rapture. Please help..

 
Anonymous Coward
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07/12/2013 12:01 AM
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I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Is this the rapture? Notice what is taken away first.


Matthew 13:24-30
New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Weeds

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
ibd1unv

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07/12/2013 12:08 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
1st off there is not rapture, because religion was mad by man for man, to keep the poor man from killing the rich man, and even if you do believe in religion youd know that no man knows the day or time...
"aint no time to be sitting around cryin like a buncha pussies"-Hushpuppy

"Girl ill make you cream like a Moonpie in the microwave"-Me-Allen
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Matthew 24:36-44
New International Version (NIV)
The Day and Hour Unknown

36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
Anonymous Coward
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07/12/2013 12:09 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
No, not rapture, this is the seperation of the sheeps and goats after the rapture. Also applies to those who have previously passed on. At least thats what I see.
Nighthawks

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07/12/2013 12:30 AM

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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
I am not the best person to answer bible questions, but I am a Christian and I will give my opinion on this...
The parable of the wheat and the weeds makes sense to me like this: God says that in order to separate the weeds, they must all be harvested together, then separated. So, it may give some proof against a pre-trib rapture.
Quran 8:12- Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you:
give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers:
smite them above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith - 7.88: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
BFE

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07/12/2013 12:30 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
It is happening NOW! Give me 10 people and 2 minutes and I can prove it.
Each one you would clearly see if they were good/bad quickly.
Only the good seem to be noticing it :) keep being good, keep being good, keep being good.... Everyday, every minute
Anonymous Coward
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07/12/2013 12:31 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Rapture? More like Crapture!
ByFaithAlone

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07/12/2013 12:50 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
I dont think it is about the rapture it is about the second coming and judgement. The tare spoken of looks like wheat but is worthless. As we all look the same but not all will enter the kingdom. Because the roots are intertwined you have to wait until time to harvest(judge) to separate. The second coming the wicked unrepentent are gathered to be judged according to their deeds while the righteous remain to enter the kingdom. Look at the story of noah and relate it to this passage because it is clearly stated in the book of revelations as it was in the days of noah so shall it be again. If you dive deep enough you will see this passage you have quoted in a way refutes pre-tribulational rapture. But im sure others have different opinions between pre and post tribulation all are very valid arguements.
“The most important things are the hardest to say. They are the things you get ashamed of, because words diminish them -- words shrink things that seemed limitless when they were in your head to no more than living size when they're brought out. But it's more than that, isn't it? The most important things lie too close to wherever your secret heart is buried, like landmarks to a treasure your enemies would love to steal away. And you may make revelations that cost you dearly only to have people look at you in a funny way, not understanding what you've said at all, or why you thought it was so important that you almost cried while you were saying it. That's the worst, I think. When the secret stays locked within not for want of a tellar but for want of an understanding ear.” Stephen King
ByFaithAlone

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07/12/2013 12:59 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
It is happening NOW! Give me 10 people and 2 minutes and I can prove it.
Each one you would clearly see if they were good/bad quickly.
Only the good seem to be noticing it :) keep being good, keep being good, keep being good.... Everyday, every minute
 Quoting: BFE


Show me please what you are speaking of.
“The most important things are the hardest to say. They are the things you get ashamed of, because words diminish them -- words shrink things that seemed limitless when they were in your head to no more than living size when they're brought out. But it's more than that, isn't it? The most important things lie too close to wherever your secret heart is buried, like landmarks to a treasure your enemies would love to steal away. And you may make revelations that cost you dearly only to have people look at you in a funny way, not understanding what you've said at all, or why you thought it was so important that you almost cried while you were saying it. That's the worst, I think. When the secret stays locked within not for want of a tellar but for want of an understanding ear.” Stephen King
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2013 05:10 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
bump
Face Palmer
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09/02/2013 05:34 AM

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No rapture bro.
"The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title."

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
SoulwalkerNZ

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09/24/2013 11:02 PM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Revelations is all about the building of the Kingdom of God and what happens to those that oppose it. Visit my website www.thekingdomofgod.org.nz to learn more. The Kingdom of God will separate the weeds from the crop. You can help build it.
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2013 01:30 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Is this the rapture? Notice what is taken away first.


Matthew 13:24-30
New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Weeds

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
 Quoting: Harbinger Of Truth




no

it's about the sowing of the God seed and the sowing of the TARES
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2013 02:31 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
 Quoting: Harbinger Of Truth

What happened to the mansion??
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2013 02:37 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Revelations is all about the building of the Kingdom of God and what happens to those that oppose it. Visit my website www.thekingdomofgod.org.nz to learn more. The Kingdom of God will separate the weeds from the crop. You can help build it.
 Quoting: SoulwalkerNZ

^ army of god.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/25/2013 02:40 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Wow..
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2013 03:03 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Before Christ returns He will first be impersonated by Satan, perhaps before during or after this there will be a new law that contradicts God's Laws, the 10 commandments, quite possibly by pretending to uplift them by ironically actually breaking them......

Those who refuse to go along will be killed, it will be attached to a no buy no sell law, this is basically the last of the prophecy's left to fulfill in the Bible

Christ taught "let No Man Deceive You"

Today deception is king that is why Christianity is made out to look foolish

When Christ actually (literally) returns this earth will cook
those who are redeemed by His precious Blood will Meet Him in the Air.

Rabbi Ben Ezra is the pen name of a "Jesuit priest" (roman church/beast)

who sort to confuse Protestants with a new doctrine "futurism" and in particular the doctrine of a secret rapture.
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2013 03:27 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Op...if it helps you any....

Tares are a weed that look identical to wheat. (These are the wolves in sheeps clothing)

The root of the tare spreads wide, entangling itself in the root of the wheat as it grows. (This is why the two must be left to grow together)

Just before the harvest, when the wheat is ripe and the head is full, the wheat will bow its' head toward the ground. The tare, however, continues to stand tall and proud. This enables the harvester to distinguish between the wheat and the tares. Since the wheat is ripe, the tare can now be pulled without damaging the wheat root. Because it is so easily spotted now, the farmer gathers it first, tying it into bundles. Since it has no other value, it makes excellent fuel for a fire.

*************
"Behold, I come as thief."

The owner of the house stays alert so that the thief WON'T break into his house and take him away. He 'suffers not' the thief.

*************

The tares are gathered FIRST.

Revelation 14:18

"And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe."

Remember, the GLEANING GRAPES ARE LEFT.

Isaiah 17:6

"Yet gleaning grapes shall be left in it, as the shaking of an olive tree, two or three berries in the top of the uppermost bough, four or five in the outmost fruitful branches thereof, saith the LORD God of Israel."

John 14:7

"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

Y'shua will be HERE on earth, reigning for 1000 years.


Be watchful, and do not suffer the thief as the evil servant will.

Matthew 24:50-51

" 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/25/2013 03:34 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Op...if it helps you any....

Tares are a weed that look identical to wheat. (These are the wolves in sheeps clothing)

The root of the tare spreads wide, entangling itself in the root of the wheat as it grows. (This is why the two must be left to grow together)

Just before the harvest, when the wheat is ripe and the head is full, the wheat will bow its' head toward the ground. The tare, however, continues to stand tall and proud. This enables the harvester to distinguish between the wheat and the tares. Since the wheat is ripe, the tare can now be pulled without damaging the wheat root. Because it is so easily spotted now, the farmer gathers it first, tying it into bundles. Since it has no other value, it makes excellent fuel for a fire.

*************
"Behold, I come as thief."

The owner of the house stays alert so that the thief WON'T break into his house and take him away. He 'suffers not' the thief.

*************

The tares are gathered FIRST.

Revelation 14:18

"And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe."

Remember, the GLEANING GRAPES ARE LEFT.

Isaiah 17:6

"Yet gleaning grapes shall be left in it, as the shaking of an olive tree, two or three berries in the top of the uppermost bough, four or five in the outmost fruitful branches thereof, saith the LORD God of Israel."

John 14:7

"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

Y'shua will be HERE on earth, reigning for 1000 years.


Be watchful, and do not suffer the thief as the evil servant will.

Matthew 24:50-51

" 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 Quoting: Jazzed


Interesting, thank you.
Naimh
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09/25/2013 05:14 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Is this the rapture? Notice what is taken away first.


Matthew 13:24-30
New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Weeds

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
 Quoting: Harbinger Of Truth


I think that Jesus of Nazareth was a "live in God's creation" kind of man, and was also the son of God and therefore he knew that if man created capitalism it would be doomed as it wasn't created by God. Jesus of Nazareth knew that the earth would be destroyed by money and that is why he got cross at the temple.
He tried to warn everyone but certain people were very happy with the new system (money and the registration of people)and had him killed.
God did not forsake Jesus, God sent his son to warn us. And now because of Global warming, and the mess we have made our earthly home is in a mess.
Jesus of Nazareth was turned into Jesus Christ by the church because a man that has passed can't argue back and in our innocence and we took the word of the bible literally. Jesus's words are the only words.
Life was much simpler back then, and Jesus was saying, break this bread and drink this wine and do this in memory of me i.e. remember where your food comes from (the earth).

Leonardo da Vinci's Last Supper showed me.

All of those parables tell us how to live with each other. Jesus words were from God.
If you have been kind and good and not greedy you'll get to heaven, if not, well, weeds get burned.
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2013 05:17 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Barley harvest = rapture of the bride

Wheat harvest = separation of the wheat and the tares which is the 144000 raptured

Grape harvest = all the ones saved in tribulation.
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2013 05:32 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
we are already bundled into our bundles but we percieve it not.
wcfChick

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09/25/2013 05:37 AM

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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Is this the rapture? Notice what is taken away first.


Matthew 13:24-30
New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Weeds

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
 Quoting: Harbinger Of Truth


This is a reference to after the rapture and after the seven year tribulation. God will clear the earth of those unrepentant and then those that are left will be transported to be with us to live in the new Jerusulum. It's right before the millennium :) hope that helps!
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell
wcfChick

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09/25/2013 05:46 AM

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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Matthew 24:36-44
New International Version (NIV)
The Day and Hour Unknown

36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
 Quoting: Harbinger Of Truth


Leviticus speaks of the 7 feasts of The Lord. He fulfilled the first four on the actual day the first time he was here and he will fulfill the 5tn some year during the feast of trumpets, which is also called the feast which no man knowsthe day or hour because it is based on the sighting of the new moon which could happen over two day period. Those bible verses, I believe, are telling us that the rapture will happen on this feast. We have lost the jewish culture in our translations but everyone at that time would have thought of this feast when Jesus made that reference.

He was crucified on Passover
He was buried on Unleavened Bread
He rose on First Fruits
The gift of the Holy Spirit was sent on Pentecost
Feast if trumpets is unfulfilled
Day of atonement is unfulfilled but some believe this is the second coming
Feast of Tabernacles is unfulfilled but is a picture of the millennium.

Finding out about these feasts truly changed my life. I can only suggest if this peaks any interest you research. You will be blown away!
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell
Relativity
Bullshit Radar

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09/25/2013 06:18 AM

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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Is this the rapture? Notice what is taken away first.


Matthew 13:24-30
New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Weeds

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
 Quoting: Harbinger Of Truth


I think it was some farmer that said...Frickin weeds are in my shizzle. Mother smack a turkey and shut the front door.

Got to get the shizzle out before I crop my wizzle.

Need to make some $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Praise the lord...king of kings. lord of lords. the one true creator. He is with us always..
amen..asoabaloco sha...
Relativity
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09/25/2013 06:20 AM

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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Is this the rapture? Notice what is taken away first.


Matthew 13:24-30
New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Weeds

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
 Quoting: Harbinger Of Truth


I think it was some farmer that said...Frickin weeds are in my shizzle. Mother smack a turkey and shut the front door.

Got to get the shizzle out before I crop my wizzle.

Need to make some $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Praise the lord...king of kings. lord of lords. the one true creator. He is with us always..
amen..asoabaloco sha...
 Quoting: Relativity


Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight

Do not question his reasoning...It is not your place.

You are leaning too much on your own. Give the power to our almighty lord of lords...
He alone hold the mighty power of powers.
For he is lord of lords....king of kings...
He speaks to me in the truths of the beginning...
Jupi7er

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09/25/2013 06:29 AM

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in fact
I know brothers who will tell you that trib began in 2010
with arab spring

coptics who are of the original pre-constantinian church
and other orthodox churches all over the arab world are being slaughtered since 2010
little coverage to this in media as 0bama publically says he is worried about the safety of muslims.

like in Nazi Germany
the germans [most] did nothing to protect those being slaughtered
and sat by idle while their rights to act were diminished to nothing

so it is in America
where many false churches sit smugly saying they believe in rapture
while real Christians around the world are giving their moral lives for Christ
and so then it must be for Americans.

as you judge
you are judged
doing nothing is the greatest judgment of all.

as americans have done nothing in the face of a president who says
he is concerned about the safety of muslims
so should America expect no help from god
when she alone destitute and the evil one comes to judge her.

I changed my view through education
being an expat I didn't get much news about America
didn't even know Clinton wasn't sec of state anymore
I ve been doing catch up on news from usa
and am disgusted at the changes and upset I wasn't there to speak out.

I heard 0bama say he persecuted for being black
followed in malls, I am white and was followed in malls for growing my hair long.
and 0bama isn't black by a long shot, he belongs to no race on earth
as there are only 4 races black yellow red and white
the president and pope belong to none of these races.

and in what WAS a Christian nation, a president saying he is worried about muslins
while Coptic and orthodox Christians are slaughtered from Afghanistan to Egypt and the media sold out to Saudi interests not informing ppl
I mean cmon
Christians being slaughtered
this is front page news in a Christian nation
and it is THE sign that tribulation is in full swing.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
[link to christianchat.com]

This is a translation of a Polish article. Below is about a half of the whole article. I will add translation of the second part later because you can only post 20 000 characters here. So far, I wish you good reading.


Rapture evokes many emotions among Christians. It is a delicate subject and often causes sharp discussions. Bible doesn't tell us much about this future event. This is the reason why it is the least understood subject in the Bible. Some claim that rapture will occur before the great tribulation, others say it will be during this event, there are also groups that think that the tribulation will be ended with rapture.
The least understandable is the fact that many Christians seem to neglect this very important subject. The most often reason to deny rapture is the fact that this doctrine appeared as late as in 1830, in a vision of 15 year's old girl, Margaret McDonald. The first booster of this teaching was John Nelson Darby. It is claimed that in the vision he described there is a term of rapture before the great tribulation. That's not true.
The first Christians taught about rapture, as long as Rome put it to an end.

Why should we inquire for the details !

Many claim that we should not examine the end of times and wait for the hour because..'none knows day or hour'. But watching is our biblical obligation. Future events prophecised in the Bible will surely suprise the satan's world but not those who will watch.

Matthew 24:32 Now learn the parable from the figtree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so, you too, when you see all these things,recognize that He is near, right at the door.…
It is the Christian's duty to observe the world's events - it is God's commandment.

Reason for misunderstanding Rapture.

Due to the lack of understanding of the Bible's most important doctrine there is an exceptional mess in this subject and the principal religions are the last that would like to explain the essence of Rapture or escape. Different religions interpret Rapture in different ways:
- rapture before the tribulation
- rapture during the tribulation
- rapture right in the moment before Armageddon
- no mentioning of rapture or escape

All these disagreements are caused by a total lack of understanding of the reason and the essence of Rapture.
Two major concepts are being confused: the coming of Jesus like a thief in the night and his return to..settle Kingdom on Earth.
The verses from the Bible are not inconsistent but misunderstood. The lack of understanding of God's Kingdom subject is the main reason. So we have two separate events.

First coming of Jesus - invisible - visible only to the chosen ones.

It is not His return but it is a secret arrival to rapture the 144 000 chosen ones into heaven. They are so called first fruits of the harvest. They will be well prepared for the coming of Jesus in the beginning of the End Times. It is a great privilege for them - a reward for watching and informing the others about Christ's plans. The 144 000 are the group for which Jesus prepared Rapture as an escape from satan's hateful attacks.

Second coming - return of Christ, visible for everyone in order to take over the Earth.

It is Christ's return with the 144 000 raptured before in order to free Earth from the Beast, its army and kings. It is the time of setting God's Kingdom on Earth that will remove all the earthly rulers and their armies. There will be a final battle called Armageddon - the battle of Christ's army and his army of 144 000 against the satan's forces.
So the first event will be the Rapture of 144 000 and after 3,5 years of tribulation there will be Christ's return with his army of 144 000 apparently being prepared during these 3,5 years to fight satan's forces.

The need of proper understanding the prophecies.

The main problem which blocks proper understanding of many other prophecies is understanding the Bible's most important subject - God's Kingdom on Earth. The gospel is a Good News about a planned God's Kingdom and Christ's Return on Earth to settle a 1000 year Kingdom. This future event is inevitably connected with the removal of present earthly kingdoms which are responsible for all the wars and crimes of satan's world.
Most religions, sects or churches don't understand or rather don't want to understand that the main subject of the Bible is the coming of God's Kingdom. Unfortunately for them any other research is convicted to fail, and almost everything loses the meaning, including the Gospel and the whole Bible.
What we are left with is an interesting question. Why almost all the christian denominations except for the Jehovah Witnesses neither understand nor proclaim God's Kingdom ?
The answer is simple. This subject is hated by the satan and all the informations revealing its details are exceptionally inconvenient for him. The satan's main target are christian religions which are almost totally controlled by him.
Does it mean that Jehovah's Witnesses is a true religion ? Not at all ! In fact God's Kingdom is one of the very few truths proclaimed by this masonic religion or sect. But they don't mention the Rapture at all.

3 groups of saved.

Bible indicates three groups of Christians, chosen to live in God's Kingdom

1. little herd -144 000 of the most faithfull Israelites
2. big herd -Woman from the Revelation's 12th chapter - it stands for complete 12 tribes of Israel.
3. The Great Multitude - these are..the sheep not from the herd (non-Israelites) but a spiritual offspring of the Woman.

John 10:16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
The little herd are the 144 000 most faithful and the most beloved servants of Christ, beginning with the apostles and followers.When Jesus was on Earth there was only a fragment of the real Israel on Earth -mainly the generation of Levi and Judah. The rest was dispersed. From all these generations Christ will personally choose 144 000 co-kings.

Revelation 7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God.He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea. Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God. Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, from the tribe of Asher12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh12,000, from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.
Other verses speaking of the heavenly award: Matthew 5:12, 1Peter 1:4, Revelation 19:1, Matthew 6:20, 22:30, 23:13, Revelation 5:3.

The big herd are the 12 tribes of Israel, which lost the status of Chosen Nation in the past by one-sidedly breaking the Covenant with God. But it does not mean losing chance for salvation. The Covenant settled on Mount Sinai was broken, but the covenant between God and Abraham is still being fulfilled by God. From the loins of Abraham there was meant to emerge a numerous offspring that would finally inherit the whole Earth.
Today there are still the full 12 tribes of Israel but informations on this have been precisely hidden for ages. Supposedly 10 tribes of Israel existed in the times of Christ ! It is not todays Israel, those who claim to be Jews but are not them at all.
Israel is a satanic creation of the world governed by Satan.Only a part of the real Israelites, that's orthodox Jews, are descendants of Judah and Levi.

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings.
The Great Multitude coming from the Great Tribulation consists of many people from different nations that in the End Times will recognize their King and join the Israelites.

Revelation 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands, 10 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:“Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” ...14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The Woman from Revelation 12

This is the same Woman that the first biblical prophecy from Genesis 3:15 tells us about.

And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.
The Woman is the chosen group of Israelites. The most faithful servants of God who were and are guided by the Holy Spirit. Those servants are the patriarchs, apostles and present-day servants thanks to whom the Truth is proclaimed.
Biblical terminology recognizes woman as a symbol of religion.

The Woman of Revelation chapter 12 is the Nation Chosen by God, 12 generations of Israel.

Little herd of 144 000 - Rapture

Jesus in His astonishing mercy decided not to let the little herd be persecuted and save it from suffering that He experienced ! In this light His love to mankind obedient to His Father's will is almost difficult to imagine. And this is the reason Jesus decided to rapture the little herd and save it from the time of..Great Tribulation (3,5 years)

John 14:1 Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.
A small part will receive God's special protection. There is a verse clearly suggesting Rapture.

Revelation 12:5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
Again we have the significant period of 42 months (3,5 year) and many falsly claim that this prophecy tells us about Christ's birth from Mary (the woman) and His mission on Earth.

There is an interesing statement from verse 13 in Revelation chapter 12: When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.
This prophecy is distinctly about the End Times. The male child was raptured to heaven ! This verse clearly speaks about rapture. Jesus was not raptured into heaven, He entered heaven of his Own free will. If the male child is not Christ then who is he ?

His characteristic feature are the reigns with an iron scepter. This verse is falsely associated with Christ who of course will also reign with an iron scepter, which symbolizes judgement ! Let's compare this with the Bible.

Revelation 2 :26 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father. 28 I will also give that one the morning star.
The victor, the male child will receive authority over the nations. The verse clearly tells us about a group of winners, not a single man - the one that"does my will to the end".
"He will rule with an iron scepter" - also means executing God's judgements. Last sentence of verse27 - these are the words that Jesus speaks Himself, He received such authority from His Father and shares it with a male child symbolizing kings and priests.

Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. 10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”
Symbolical male child, the son of the Woman, illustrates those who are about to reign with Christ over the nations with an iron scepter. This an extraordinary privilege for the 144 000.

The verse below apparently concerns the times before the last battle of Armageddon, when the first fruits of the Lamb will be back on Earth and the synagogue of Satan will be forced to pay tribute to those chosen by Jesus.

Revelation 3:9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan,who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
Christ cherished those people very much and He will give them the biggest privilege, the same He received from His Father. This privelege is immortality. Second death has no power over them. Christ received such privelege thanks to his sacrifice from God.
In turn He decided to give the same privilege to His Bride, the 144 000 chosen ones, those who did not defile themselves with woman which means that spiritual harlotry was not found in them. Those chosen ones are symbolical virgins - the most rightous virgin Bride of the Lamb.
In the moment of their coming back there will be reigns of Christ's Bride among the enemies even before the final battle of Armageddon.

Psalm 110 1The Lord says to my Lord: “Sit at my righ thand, until I make your enemies your footstool.” 2 The Lord sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter. Rule in the midst of your enemies!
The rest of Psalm 110 is exceptional as well.

Psalm 110: 3 Your troops will be willing on your day of battle. Arrayed in holy majesty, from the womb of the dawn you will receive the dew of your youth. 4 The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek." 5 The Lord is at your right hand; he will crush kings on the day of his wrath.
Those verses clearly announce the King of the Kingdom at the right hand of the Father and His army - the 144 000 !

Revelation 5:10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.
Pay attention to the underlined fragments. Those chosen ones are made a kingdom and priests. Where will they rule ? On the Earth, because God's Kingdom will be on the Earth not in Heaven. Only a part of 144 000 will be in heaven and supposedly those 144 000 will be..travelling between Earth and heaven and conversly, according to the needs.
Shortly before the Great Tribulation aimed at Christianity there will be the last, charismatic king, called the Antichrist, who will takeover the Earth and reign for 3,5 years. Those 3,5 years will be the period which Revelation calls the Great Tribulation.

The Woman's escape

Revelation 12:13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for herin the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
It looks like satan will be hurled to the earth right before the period of 1260 days (3,5 year), that's before the start of the Great Tribulation.
Those verses apparently tell us about the Woman's escape. Jesus admonishes to the need of hurry and urgency. Lot's wife was hurried and lost her life. Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was planned for a precise time and Jesus is clearly relating to this need of hurry.
From His words it clearly emerges that those Israelites who will be awarded with such a distinction, will be given an order of an immediate escape - they should not delay but instantly accept this extraordinary chance. Even someone working at the rooftop should not come back to his house for anything nor the one in the field.

Matthew 24: 15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel,standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
One will be taken and the other left
- above is clearly not about executing the judgement of Armageddon.
Keep2theCode

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09/25/2013 07:31 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
It is not His return but it is a secret arrival to rapture the 144 000 chosen ones into heaven
 Quoting:

I stopped reading after this. The 144,000 are Jews who are sealed sometime after the Rapture and seen in heaven at the midpoint of the Tribulation. Also, the Rapture is anything but "secret".
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2013 07:34 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Is this the rapture? Notice what is taken away first.


Matthew 13:24-30
New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Weeds

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
 Quoting: Harbinger Of Truth


Thread: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!

This thread deals with it in detail.

Its undebunkable because its 100% scripture.

No venturing forth into speculations about fig trees and Jewish weddings and guesswork.

Its 100% scripture telling when and why and how.
Keep2theCode

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09/25/2013 07:39 AM
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Re: I have a question about the rapture. Please help..
Thread: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)

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