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"Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 86728
Thailand
05/01/2006 10:58 AM
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"Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
Putting things in perspective, here is an excerpt from how Thailand deals with not just illegal immigrants, but those who have overstayed their visa by even just one day:


"It is important to remember that if your visa has expired even for just one day, and you do not surrender but are apprehended by immigration officials or the police, you will automatically be taken to court. If your court hearing is held on a Friday and you pay your fine the same day, in accordance with the court order, it does not mean that your case has ended. The Immigration Bureau still has to pursue your case by deporting you. Therefore, you will need to have a confirmed air ticket together with sufficient money for transportation to the airport. If you cannot meet those requirements, you will be detained in the Immigration Bureau jail until you are able to acquire a confirmed ticket and sufficient cash for the trip to the airport.

In addition, if your court hearing is not completed until Friday afternoon other problems can arise, even when you have everything you need for your departure from Thailand. The officer who escorts you to court is not the same officer who has to arrange for your departure documents. Therefore, you will have to arrange for the completion of the documentation by the officer concerned. That officer will need to present all the papers concerning your deportation to his superior officers who have the authority to approve your release. However, in reality, you will not be able to do so because you are in jail and will have no opportunity to see the documentation officer. Unless you have a friend or a representative (e.g., a lawyer) who can make the necessary arrangements with the officer concerned, you will be unable to settle the matter.

It is even more difficult if you are not going back to your own country. For example, if you are an Australian but you have a job in Singapore, you will have to go to Singapore instead of Australia. That will involve more paperwork and people, thus extending the time needed to complete the required documentation for your departure.

You should keep in mind that the Immigration Bureau’s office hours end at 4.30 p.m. Therefore, if your court hearing is held on a Friday, and since it takes more than half a day to complete all the necessary procedures, you can expect to remain in the Immigration Bureau jail until the following Monday. Even worse, if the following Monday is a public holiday, you will have to wait until the next working day before your departure can be approved."

There is no free bus ride to the border.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 86728
Thailand
05/01/2006 11:07 AM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
And in Singapore....

"5 Under the Immigration Act (Cap 133), the punishment for overstaying and illegal entry is a jail term up to six months and caning of at least 3 strokes. The punishment for employing immigration offenders is a jail term between six months and two years and a fine up to $6000. Employers who employed more than 5 immigration offenders may be caned for the offence."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 87933
United States
05/01/2006 11:09 AM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
Great, so now you aspire to the dictates of third world oppresive countries.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 86728
Thailand
05/01/2006 11:15 AM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
Singapore a "third world" country? Your ignorance is astonishing.

But I did find a reference to Mexico's immigration policy, albeit a third world country.

"In the first eight months of 2005 alone, more than 120,000 people from Central America have been deported to their countries of origin. Mexico has very strict immigration laws pertaining to both illegal and legal immigrants.[10] The Mexican constitution restricts non-citizens or foreign born persons from participating in politics, holding office, acting as a member of the clergy, or serving on the crews of Mexican-flagged ships or airplanes. Certain legal rights are waived in the case of foreigners, such as the right to a deportation hearing or other legal motions. In cases of flagrante delicto, any person may make a citzen's arrest on the offender and his accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 87933
United States
05/01/2006 11:19 AM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
Thailand 86728, Thailand is a third world country.

Now that we're on the same page you could tell us why it would be a good thing to emulate the dictates of oppresive leaders of the countries that you like to look down upon.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 23122
United Kingdom
05/01/2006 11:37 AM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
In the UK they're deported. At least that is the theory. Usually they'll deport families, probably because they're easier to handle, but they don't deport many. But nobody knows how many illegals we have here. But whatever the number, add to that the number of failed asylum seekers and you've got a huge population of them.

There's a big stink going on now because it's been discovered that over a thousand criminals who were ordered to be deported after they served their prison sentences, have just been released back onto the streets to offend again.

TPTB cooked up a scheme where illegals could get a free plane ticket back home and a payment of £3,000. Some took it. Some decided it was such a good scheme, they came back and claimed it all over again! Nice what they do with taxpayers money!

And they wonder why people are thinking of voting for the British Nationalist Party!!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 86728
Thailand
05/01/2006 11:39 AM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
Oh, and Australia:


"It is a crime to work illegally in Australia. If you are found to be working illegally, you will be subject to immediate removal from Australia. Your employer can be fined up to AUD$10,000, and there will shortly be prosecution penalties for employers or labour suppliers of illegal workers. There are three types of illegality:

- Someone whose visa has expired, and who should not be in Australia at all, let alone working.

- Someone who has a visa that does not have 'working provision' - for example a Tourist Visa. They are supposed to be having a holiday and visiting friends, not working. There are other visas without working provision.

These people have NO WORK stamped in their passport. Some visas for holidays are issued electronically - there is no passport stamp. If there is no passport stamp, then the passport holder has no right to work."

It is a crime to work illegally in Australia.

(I could not find a reference in Australian law about having no visa or passport at all, but I think the penalty would be rather obvious".
The Roman

User ID: 631
Italy
05/01/2006 11:45 AM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
hard to stop them when you live in a peninsula like italy is with most of your frontiers being seashore.
They come in 365 day per year incessantly with all sort of old boats from africa and est countries like albania romania atc..most are north african tho, the one that they manage to stop are interned in temporary camps and then deported back to their country with a plane but most just make their way inland and start to work for someone and once they have a work and a reference they are basically safe and they can ask for a permit and they basically become more privileged than the italians their kids have precedence and reserved place in public schools and they have acces to the national free ealth care system and hospitals.
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My Hobby: [link to www.radiogalaxy.eu]

....and so came the time of the X° and last Crusade, for Truth and Liberation...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 86728
Thailand
05/01/2006 11:47 AM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
"TPTB cooked up a scheme where illegals could get a free plane ticket back home and a payment of £3,000. Some took it. Some decided it was such a good scheme, they came back and claimed it all over again! Nice what they do with taxpayers money!"

Whereas Thailand puts the illegal in prison until the offender can come up with the funds for a one way ticket out.

Hmmm....so maybe Thailand is not such a backward third world country after all.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 82216
Panama
05/01/2006 11:56 AM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
Oh and America

According to the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act:

"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens

It is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an alien for a fee, knowing the alien is unauthorized to work in the United States. It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an alien knowing that the alien is unauthorized to work. Employers may give preference in recruitment and hiring to a U.S. citizen over an alien with work authorization only where the U.S. citizen is equally or better qualified. It is unlawful to hire an individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements. Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with three days' advance notice, the forms must be made available for inspection. Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States, with the exception of sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home. Day laborers or other casual workers engaged in any compensated activity (with the above exception) are employees for purposes of immigration law. An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verfication of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the alien labor. The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements. If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire.

An employer has constructive knowledge that an employee is an illegal unauthorized worker if a reasonable person would infer it from the facts. Constructive knowledge constituting a violation of federal law has been found where (1) the I-9 employment eligibility form has not been properly completed, including supporting documentation, (2) the employer has learned from other individuals, media reports, or any source of information available to the employer that the alien is unauthorized to work, or (3) the employer acts with reckless disregard for the legal consequences of permitting a third party to provide or introduce an illegal alien into the employer's work force. Knowledge cannot be inferred solely on the basis of an individual's accent or foreign appearance.

Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an illegal alien work force of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.

IT IS ILLEGAL FOR NONPROFIT OR RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, REGARDLESS OF CLAIMS THAT THEIR CONVICTIONS REQUIRE THEM TO ASSIST ALIENS. Harboring or aiding illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment. It is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to five years.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 86728
Thailand
05/01/2006 12:01 PM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
Right 82216. You have quoted the law that says it's a crime for US employers to knowingly employ illegal aliens. Today's demonstrators object to a law that makes it a crime to enter or work in the USA illegally.

That makes sense.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 87945
United Kingdom
05/01/2006 12:02 PM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
The women get put to good use.
idol_harobed

User ID: 87944
Brazil
05/01/2006 12:07 PM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
In Brazil the ones that are not deported immediately find hard time making a life here due to excess bureaucracy. They generally end up living in slums or become indigents or criminals to die in oblivion.
I am what I read.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 82216
Panama
05/01/2006 12:09 PM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
I also found this in the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act:

RICO -- Citizen Recourse

Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire to or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes, under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO). The pattern of racketeering activity is defined as commission of two or more of the listed crimes. A RICO enterprise can be any individual legal entity, or a group of individuals who are not a legal entity but are associated in fact, AND CAN INCLUDE NONPROFIT ASSOCIATIONS.

So, does this mean we can file civil suits against corporations that hire illegal aliens and nail them on RICO violations?

I found this too:

Tax Crimes

Employers who aid or abet the preparation of false tax returns by failing to pay income or Social Security taxes for illegal alien employees, or who knowingly make payments using false names or Social Security numbers, are subject to IRS criminal and civil sanctions. U.S. nationals who have suffered intentional discrimination because of citizenship or national origin by an employer with more than three employees may file a complaint within 180 days of the discriminatory act with the Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices, U.S. Department of Justice. In additon to the federal statutes summarized, state laws and local ordinances controlling fair labor practices, workers compensation, zoning, safe housing and rental property, nuisance, licensing, street vending, and solicitations by contractors may also apply to activities that involve illegal aliens.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 82216
Panama
05/01/2006 12:19 PM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
What if a bunch of Americans got together and filed a class action lawsuit against a major, high-profile corporation that hires lots of illegals, and those Americans sued the pants off this corporation for RICO violations? Would this work? Would it send a big enough message?

I'm just trying to think of an effective and non-violent way to deal with the illegal immigration problem. Politicians and law enforcement agencies don't seem to want to do anything about it. Maybe, a few rabid lawyers with dollar signs in their eyes could help.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 86728
Thailand
05/01/2006 12:20 PM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
We are not talking about employers who employ illegals, 82216. We are talking about people who enter countries illegally, overstay their visas, and work there illegally - not their employers. The protests today are organized and attended by people who object to laws that make it a crime to enter or work in the USA illegally, and they want to have full, legal, unconditional permanent residency, having been fully aware that they orginally entered the USA illegally.

The title of the thread is ""Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?" not "employers who hire illegal alliens. And "other countries" was meant to be "other than the USA".
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 87945
United Kingdom
05/01/2006 12:20 PM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
THIS IS A SERIOUS QUESTION.

I'm thinking about becoming an illegal immigrant.

What are the best sources of employment?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 87957
United States
05/01/2006 12:31 PM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
The real problem is the employers.

If the employers were not breaking the laws so that they could employ illegal aliens for below minimum wage there would be no reason for these people to risk their lives coming to this country illegally.

It all rests on the shoulders of large corporations, who happen to be the largest employers of illegal aliens.

Enforce these laws and border patrol will be a mute point.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 87957
United States
05/01/2006 12:32 PM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
"Enforce these laws and border patrol will be a mute point."

Should read:

Enforce these laws and border patrol will be a moot point.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 82216
Panama
05/01/2006 12:39 PM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
86728, you are correct; I did get off-topic. Sorry.

When someone posted Australia's laws, I thought "that looks good on paper, I wonder if they enforce it". Then, I got to wondering what the USA's laws were on paper, so I looked it up, posted it, made a few comments, and came up with an idea & posted that too.

I suppose you've all gotten an example today of how my brain works anyway.

Perhaps, I should just start my own thread.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 69144
United States
05/01/2006 12:49 PM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
THEY SHOOT EM!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 87945
United Kingdom
05/01/2006 12:59 PM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
They shoot em up and then get them to perform all kinds of services.
Gmann

User ID: 53016
United States
05/01/2006 01:33 PM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
In Mexico you may get beaten, robbed or shot.

In Australia they send you to the Baxter Detention Center.

In the United States you get a job, free medical and dental care, a license to drive, a voter registration card AND a free education for your kids - in spanish to boot!
Gmann

User ID: 53016
United States
05/01/2006 01:36 PM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
I almost forgot the best perk...

Deposit and Withdrawal slips in spanish at the local bank.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 380
United States
05/01/2006 03:11 PM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
Welfare forms are in not only Spanish, but Arabic,as well.Is that not absurd?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 86728
Thailand
05/01/2006 08:38 PM
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Re: "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
Good point, Gmann. I just saw a story about illegal Central Americans in Mexico headed to the USA on the National Geographic "No Borders" series. Unlike in the USA, laws against illegals in Mexico are very strict. And the laws are not always applied. The police are so corrupt that the illegals interviewed said that they were robbed of all their money, some even their shoes, sometimes thrown into jail and beaten and insulted.

And in Texas when you go for a drivers license, the tests are not only in Spanish, but several other languages as well - Chinese and Vietnamese for example. Wonder what languages they have for the drivers license tests are in Mexico?

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