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"It has served us well, this myth of Christ".

 
AK AK KITTY
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05/02/2006 10:29 AM
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"It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
"It has served us well, this myth of Christ" which was reportedly stated by Pope Leo X.

Summing Up the Evidence

This being the character of the gospels, the search for a Jesus of history in them has had to be given up. It may be noted that the search was started and continued not by atheists or anti-Christians of any type but by pious theologians whose aim was to install Jesus on the firm ground of recorded history and thus fortify the fundamental Christian belief that Christianity is a historical and not a mythological faith. They cannot he blamed if the results of Christological research have turned out to be disastrous for Christianity, as we shall see.

Albert Schweitzer, the world famous theologian and missionary, has traced in a well-known book published in 1906 the progress of Christology from Hermann Samuel Reimarus, who wrote in the middle of the eighteenth century, to Wilhelm Wrede whose book on this subject was published in 1901. "The study of the Life of Jesus," he says, "has had a curious history. It set out in quest of the historical Jesus, believing that when it had found Him it could bring Him straight into our time as a Teacher and Saviour..."51 Coming to the "Results", he mourns, "There is nothing more negative than the result of the critical study of the Life of Jesus. The Jesus of Nazareth who came forward publicly as the Messiah, who preached the ethic of the Kingdom of God, who founded the Kingdom of Heaven upon earth, and died to give His work its final consecration, never had any existence. This image has not been destroyed from without. It has fallen to pieces, cleft and disintegrated by the concrete historical problems which came to the surface one after another, and in spite of all the artifice, art, artificiality, and violence which was applied to them, refused to be planed down to fit the design on which Jesus of the theology of the last hundred and thirty years had been constructed and were no sooner covered over than they appeared again in a new form.."52 He concludes, "We thought that it was for us to lead our time by the roundabout way through the historical Jesus, as we understood Him, in order to bring it to the Jesus who is a spiritual power in the present. This roundabout way has now been closed by genuine history."53

James P. Mackey confirms Schweitzer. "It was just about two centuries ago," he says, "that people began to pride themselves on the bringing at last to academic Christology the scientific methods of the historian. Previous to the eighteenth century, it was felt, people had built their portraits of Jesus from all kinds of unscientific assumptions. Small wonder if false Christs had appeared in Christian devotion and Christian literature. Small wonder if different Christs had appeared at different times and places or in different Christian traditions. The modern quarters set out with the calm confidence that by the use of the trusty methods of scientific history the real Jesus could at last be made to stand up. And with the same calm confidence they produced first one portrait of Jesus... and then another... and then another, each disturbingly different from the one before... Pessimism spread far beyond the confines of professional scholarship: the 'real Jesus' could not really be found..."54

Pope Leo X had confessed in the early sixteenth century that "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".55 Now that the myth was getting exploded, Pope Pius X condemned in 1907 the Modernists who "were working within the framework of the Church" and "an anti-Modernist oath was introduced in 1910".56

But that did not stop the Modernists. The last nail in the coffin which carried the Jesus of history was hammered home by Rudolf Bultmann, Professor in the Marburg University of Germany and acknowledged as the greatest New Testament theologian of the twentieth century. "I do indeed think," he concluded in 1958, "that we can now know almost nothing concerning the life and personality of Jesus, since the early Christian sources show no interest in either, are moreover fragmentary and legendary."57

Bultmann was only endorsing what another German theologian, Bruno Bauer, had said a hundred years earlier. According to Albert Schweitzer, Bauer had concluded in 1850-51: "The question which has so much exercised the minds of men — whether Jesus was the historic Christ (= Messiah) — is answered in the sense that everything that is said of Him, everything that is known of Him, belongs to the world of imagination, that is, of the imagination of the Christian community, and therefore has nothing to do with any man who belongs to the real world."58

The story has not changed in the years since Bultmann gave his verdict. Pastor J. Kahl pronounced in 1967 that "nothing at all is known of Jesus beyond the bare fact that 'he existed at a date and place which can be established approximately' and that both his teaching and manner of death remain unknown so that 'the name of Jesus is bound to remain cryptic and meaningless, indistinguishable from a myth'."59

Professor W. Trilling came to the conclusion in 1969 that "not a single date in his life can be determined with certainty" and wondered why "with modern scientific methods and enormous labour and ingenuity, so little has been established".60

Summarizing the surveys of Christology since Bultmann G.A. Wells observed in 1986: "During the past thirty years theologian have come increasingly to admit that it is no longer possible to write a biography of him, since documents earlier than the gospels tell us next to nothing of his life, while the gospels present the 'kerygma' or proclamation of faith not the Jesus of history. Many contemporary theologians therefore regard the quest of the historical Jesus as both hopeless and religiously irrelevant — in that the few things which can, allegedly, be known of his life are unedifying and do not make him an appropriate object of worship."61

There is now no dearth of scholars who think that the Jesus of the gospels never existed in history. H. Raschke wrote quite some time ago that "the historical existence of Jesus need not be denied as it has never been affirmed".62 G.A. Wells has continued to examine the arguments of those who are still out to prop up a Jesus of history. He has written three challenging books in 1971, 1982 and 1986. In his latest book he concludes that "The existence of strongly divergent Christologies in early Christian times is a strong argument against Jesus' historicity", and that "if he had really lived, early Christian literature would not 'show nearly everywhere churchly and theological conflicts and fierce quarrels between opponents' nor disagree so radically as to what kind of person he was".
[link to hamsa.org]
Don't call me scarface, my name is Kapone, Korky Kapone....K-A-P-O-N-E!

[link to media.putfile.com]
Anonymous Coward
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05/02/2006 10:41 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
"WOE TO THOSE WHO CHOOSE WRONGLY!

I AM COMING.

THE TRUMPET HAS SOUNDED.

THE GREAT AND TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD IS AT HAND."
AK AK KITTY (OP)

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05/02/2006 10:44 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Yep, and we have been getting threatened with that one for how long? scratching
Don't call me scarface, my name is Kapone, Korky Kapone....K-A-P-O-N-E!

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Anonymous Coward
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05/02/2006 12:19 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Anunnaki are the gods!
Anonymous Coward
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05/02/2006 01:25 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Constantine and the Romans put together a new religion using the sacred books of previous prophets and religions, then changed the names and settings to fit a composite Judean Savior.
Antiquity Unveiled
[link to www.angelfire.com]
Anonymous Coward
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05/02/2006 01:26 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
ASTROTHEOLOGY!
Anonymous Coward
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05/02/2006 01:28 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
how can he be a myth? i am him
Anonymous Coward
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05/02/2006 04:14 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
bump
antoine

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08/04/2006 09:15 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
hey
19.47™

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08/04/2006 09:17 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
wthread 1dunno1
Manticore

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08/04/2006 09:21 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
It's strange that so many treat the Christian mythology as literal fact, when really it has no more historical evidence than the (far more interesting) Greco-Roman or Egyptian myths.

Of course, that's not to detract importance away from some of the very good lessons contained within Jesus' teachings, but I personally believe most of the New Testament (particularly Revelations) is allegorical, rather than historical.
Lady in the Lighthouse
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08/04/2006 09:37 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
It's strange that so many treat the Christian mythology as literal fact, when really it has no more historical evidence than the (far more interesting) Greco-Roman or Egyptian myths.

Of course, that's not to detract importance away from some of the very good lessons contained within Jesus' teachings, but I personally believe most of the New Testament (particularly Revelations) is allegorical, rather than historical.
 Quoting: Manticore


Indeed...and the predictions such as the Rapure do not appear at all in any book of the bible. It is piecd together out of context.
I was part of a group many years ago that was teaching "Conscious Christianity" which was simply that the characters of the gospels were reflections of parts of ourselves--including jesus the christ--and that we could learn about ourselves accordingly...
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 09:43 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Seperation does not serve us at all. Ego!
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 09:46 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
This "myth" quote actually comes from the English playwright John Bale in his satirical work:"The Pageant of Popes" End of story, any researcher who uses this quote as "proof" is either lying or badly misinformed!

Good grief. Do some research before you spread lies.
crt
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08/04/2006 09:54 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Yep, and we have been getting threatened with that one for how long? scratching
 Quoting: AK AK KITTY


At least until you die, then its a reality.

devil6
Lady in the Lighthouse
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08/04/2006 09:59 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Seperation does not serve us at all. Ego!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 118952



The separation is in Christianity! That God is separate from us and that we need to grovel to redeem ourselves.
The lie is that we are separate from Creation; we are not.
vicious

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08/04/2006 10:23 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
" Religion is regarded by the common people as true,by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."

Seneca the Younger.
" I'll cut you like a box,along the flaps."

This has been a Viciousalawicious Production. the views and opinions of the above poster do not necessarily correspond with the views and opinions of VA Productions.

So don't bother complaining to us about what this crazy bitch is saying.
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 10:31 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
[link to www.clarifyingchristianity.com]
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 10:45 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
u2efine<-- Jesus Christ
woo <--YAHWEH+Ba'al

ana <-- Christians

gaah <-- Jehowah' witnesses and ...

me shitstream G-d
Æon

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08/04/2006 10:52 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
There are enough facts out there that people can figure out the mythological origins of Jesus Christianity. If they persist in believing a myth as literal fact, then they do so out of pure stupidity.
Ave Gæ , morituri te salutamus!
River7471

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08/04/2006 11:00 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
There is no myth.

Even secular scholars who do not believe that Christ was God's son, or the Messiah will tell you...

...there was a historical Jesus.

History, archaelogical evidence proves it.


I think what you are trying to say is that Christ was not the Savior that people of faith believe Him to be.

Which is understandable. Only faith can take you from the provable historical Jesus to the realization that Christ was more than a historical figure.
Help I'm gay and stuck in this closet!
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 11:02 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
2 Timothy 4

1 I command you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his Kingdom:

3 For the time will come when they will not listen to the sound doctrine, but, having itching ears, will heap up for themselves teachers after their own lusts;

4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside to fables.
Æon

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08/04/2006 11:07 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
There is no myth.

Even secular scholars who do not believe that Christ was God's son, or the Messiah will tell you...

...there was a historical Jesus.

History, archaelogical evidence proves it.
 Quoting: River7471


dumbass
Ave Gæ , morituri te salutamus!
Æon

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08/04/2006 11:09 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
the pope came from paganism

i doubt if any pagan has ever known Christ
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 114312


Jesus Christianity was formed from pagan christs. You simply refuse to accept this fact.
Ave Gæ , morituri te salutamus!
mathetes

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08/04/2006 11:11 AM

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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
#124758 is exactly right this quote is a myth! Only repeated by bad researchers such as Acharya S and the like.
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Maat

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08/04/2006 11:12 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
There is no myth.

Even secular scholars who do not believe that Christ was God's son, or the Messiah will tell you...

...there was a historical Jesus.

History, archaelogical evidence proves it.


I think what you are trying to say is that Christ was not the Savior that people of faith believe Him to be.

Which is understandable. Only faith can take you from the provable historical Jesus to the realization that Christ was more than a historical figure.
 Quoting: River7471


What archaeological evidence?
Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 11:14 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
catholics are a joke but jesus is real.my eyes have seen the glory of the lord an i am a witness.an im delivered from what people say or think. worship
Æon

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08/04/2006 11:17 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Jesus is the eternal Word
he existed before paganism even had a name
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 114312


lame
Ave Gæ , morituri te salutamus!
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 11:17 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
the pope came from paganism

i doubt if any pagan has ever known Christ


Jesus Christianity was formed from pagan christs. You simply refuse to accept this fact.
 Quoting: Æon

.....................................
Who is the one which history's reconing piviots upon?
Who is the one that hundreds of thousands willingly endured tortures and death rather than deny Him. After all its only a word.
Who is the one that is both savior and judge depending on the choice of the individuals heart?
Prove that any of your gods pre-date 2000 years ago with actual dated texts.
Lady in the Lighthouse
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08/04/2006 11:23 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
The typical answer will be: it is a question of Faith. And that is so for them. I may have very strong opinions against any organized religion, but far be it from me at this stage in my life to try to pry people from it. It is their path and their choice to believe or not.
This thread is about the PROVABILITY of christianity, not one's FAITH in it.
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 11:24 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
later, roman catholics "took over" the Celtic church
and forced them to become roman catholic
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 114312

Hi 114312!
That's me - atheist robot!

Ready for a round of Q&A about Christianity?

current state: me 10 = you 0

A cockroach can live nine days without its head before it starves to death.

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