Audiophiles! Let's talk about gear and great audio production! | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1230294 China 07/31/2013 08:45 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to en.wikipedia.org] |
71383 User ID: 44357909 Germany 07/31/2013 10:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | When digital media was first introduced, I noticed an artificial nature to the sound which IMO has never been overcome. Quoting: IDW 28989642 It sounds tinny and fake. If I had any advice to the young audiophiles out there, it would be to try analogue system from the late 70's or early 80's and see how easy and inexpensive it is to obtain superior realism in sound reproduction. IDW, you know, that's exactly why I began looking into vintage speakers. I knew I wanted to go with tubes, and I wanted to mate it to something appropriate for the era. I fell in love with the aesthetics of these old speakers as I researched them, and preferred the honest materials used in their construction to the poly-whatever-carbonate plastic stuff in use now. As with any hobby, the rabbit hole got deeper the more I learned. The technical advice I've been getting here lately confirms a lot of the gut feelings I have in spite of my limited ability to express them technically. I'll never be as technical as a lot of this thread's contributors, but I appreciate their prowess, we all have things we want to learn more about. Vinyl is a new rathole of mine (last 18mos or so), and it's a big and expensive one. I've become so obsessed, that I can't listen to digital media lately without a fair about of EQ, and the compression just fatigues me so much, that I can barely get through a complete disc. Thanks for the post! I just thought I'd inject a comment on the idea that 'vintage' was better. It wasn't, really, it just sounds that way! You see, the reason modern music sounds bad has nothing to do with the fact it was recorded and distributed digitally - it is because it has been processed to death! In the really old days, no audio processing was available, so people just recorded the instruments as they were. That gave a signal peak-to-average level ratio of about 18 dB for pop music that doesn't have a lot of intentional dynamics (like Ravel's Bolero has, for an extreme example). In the 70's, people had compressors and equalizers, and the peak-to-average ratio was brought down to 12 dB. This actually sounds BETTER than reality, when played through speakers! Music that streams through two speakers doesn't have the full spatial information, so things jumble together more than they should. Keeping levels a bit more balanced helps to compensate, making music come through more clearly. But there is of course such a thing as too much of a good thing. People thought more compression sounded more "modern", and discovered that a more heavily compressed sound came through more clearly on the radio. So in the 80's, the peak-to-average ratio had been reduced to 6 dB. This still sounds pretty good, but it is on the aggressive side of things, and it is not as 'airy' and 'organic' as a less compressed sound. But the development did not stop there... Soon more advanced compression techniques were available. Individual instruments were compressed and limited, then the entire mix went through a multiband compressor, and then the last few surviving peaks were hammered into submission with a digital look-ahead peak limiter, so the the entire recording had a max level of 0.0 dB, and an average level of -1.0 dB! Now get this, a 1 dB peak-to-average ratio is much LESS than a constant max swing sine wave has (which is 3.0 dB)!!! This means, the recording can't even reproduce the 'dynamics' of a clean sine wave at max amplitude, it must distort it! As a result, such music sounds like 'distortion with a beat'. It is EXTREMELY fatiguing to the ears. This is then made even worse by the use of auto-tune, a tool that "corrects" the intonation of singers, making vocals sound synthetic and lifeless in the process. With music-as-it-sounded-in-the-70's, you want to raise the sound levels, because it sounds better the louder it is! And the unrestricted peaks in the source material means it will sound even better on audiophile equipment that will not limit or compress the peaks. But the digitally castrated music of today actually sounds better the less loud you play it. Not surprisingly, I have found the optimal solution is to TURN IT OFF. This sound castration was made possible by the introduction of digital sound processing tools, but it is the abuse of these tools that is the problem - not the digital representation itself. a process called LOUDNESS WAR; AES & EBU solution is Recoomendation R 128 or reading Bob Katz most masteringtards knew this, but the artists still want to be loud as hell |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 44357909 Germany 07/31/2013 10:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | it's not that digital sounds bad, it's the crappy recording/mixer tonedeath dude setup the soundlevel at clipping/overdrive/no dynamics etc. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1230294 [link to en.wikipedia.org] sorry did not check ur link |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 47466634 Japan 10/02/2013 07:56 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 36878574 United States 11/24/2013 02:07 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 50439882 Japan 11/24/2013 02:27 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Do anybody of you use Headphone Amps? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47466634 If so: "Satisfied"? Brand? Price? Size? Domo, because i am thinking about it! I have an Aune tube headphone amp, from China. Very pleased! Do you think that the difference between a Headphone- and a normal Amp is that significant for normal Headphones (Sennheis3r 280) |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 8954279 Germany 11/24/2013 02:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Do anybody of you use Headphone Amps? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47466634 If so: "Satisfied"? Brand? Price? Size? Domo, because i am thinking about it! I have an Aune tube headphone amp, from China. Very pleased! Do you think that the difference between a Headphone- and a normal Amp is that significant for normal Headphones (Sennheis3r 280) I have Sennheisers, too. They are soooo very neutral! I lust for some high end Grados in their place. In short, the headphone amp is a huge improvement, definitely recommended! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50439882 Japan 11/24/2013 02:43 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Do anybody of you use Headphone Amps? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47466634 If so: "Satisfied"? Brand? Price? Size? Domo, because i am thinking about it! I have an Aune tube headphone amp, from China. Very pleased! Do you think that the difference between a Headphone- and a normal Amp is that significant for normal Headphones (Sennheis3r 280) I have Sennheisers, too. They are soooo very neutral! I lust for some high end Grados in their place. In short, the headphone amp is a huge improvement, definitely recommended! Domo, will try it! I dislike them so much that i thought at first they are faked but their (very low) Weight is right! There is nothing inside of this Phones, no Character at all and i doubt that this is called "neutrality"! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 48351094 United Kingdom 11/24/2013 03:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Pioneer SA-9800 amp B&W DM2 3-way transmission speakers Marantz CD63 MKII signature CD player Lenco turntable Silver High Breed Quintessence 6AWG interconnects (handmade in the UK and as thick as hosepipes) Hitachi speaker cable SSX-102k LC-OFC (the ones that everyone wants, and is no longer available) I also have a Pioneer precisison amp (hand built by Tom Evans) a few good quality cd's .... Folk Singer ... Muddy waters Eric Clapton .... Unplugged Mary Gauthier ... Mercy Now Roger Waters ... Amused to death Bueno Vista Social Club Dave brubeck Quartet ... Take Five Joan Baez ... Diamonds and Rust Etta James ... Blues to the Bone Dianna Krall ... Te other girl in the room Jon Mayall ... Jazz blues fusion Fleetwood Mac ... Fleetwood Mac (their 1st release) Lou Reed ... new York loads more ... |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 34567644 Mongolia 11/24/2013 03:28 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 22571097 Austria 11/24/2013 03:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 22571097 Austria 11/24/2013 03:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 22571097 Austria 11/24/2013 03:47 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Do you think that the difference between a Headphone- and a normal Amp is that significant for normal Headphones (Sennheis3r 280) I have Sennheisers, too. They are soooo very neutral! I lust for some high end Grados in their place. In short, the headphone amp is a huge improvement, definitely recommended! Domo, will try it! I dislike them so much that i thought at first they are faked but their (very low) Weight is right! There is nothing inside of this Phones, no Character at all and i doubt that this is called "neutrality"! Mine (280s, too) are bland as hell. I actually prefer my Klipsch earbuds for "real world" listening. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50468544 Australia 11/24/2013 03:49 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So, I'll kick it off with my gear: Quoting: Fret Wiz 2 Jolida 202a amps, Music hall 5.1SE Turntable, Jolida JD9a preamp. I have them bi-amped to a pair of Allison CD-9's. In my living room, I'm running Marantz MM7055 w/ matching amp (too lazy to get the model, sorry!). This is a 5.1 system, I have a pair of Allison Ones up front, Allison Twos in the rear and an Infinity Beta for the center channel (I may replace this with an Allison Four I have soon). I have the latest Oppo player (BDP95, I think). That thing just rocks! Yesterday I was thinking about great production, as I switched from Donald Fagen's latest to Incubus' S.C.I.E.N.C.E. Anything Steely Dan related, Alan Parsons...just such good production. Parsons' 4.0 Quad mix of Dark Side of the Moon is just amazing. Search the internet, it's out there in glorious 24/96, completely unauthorized and extracted by some brave soul at the studio! I listened recently to Journey's Escape remaster (maybe the quietest vinyl I own), and Styx's Pieces of Eight. Blown away by these old recordings, they are both great remasters! Too bad surround music died quickly after a brief resurgence. I really love that stuff. Only a few titles a year come out, thank god for Steven Wilson and Porcupine Tree, they're trying their best to keep the format alive! So, what are you listening to and what are you listening to it on? I dont understand audiophiles. Just go buy a piano if you like music so much. My pair of Grados help me enjoy recorded music. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 24411442 Sweden 11/24/2013 03:51 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So, I'll kick it off with my gear: Quoting: Fret Wiz 2 Jolida 202a amps, Music hall 5.1SE Turntable, Jolida JD9a preamp. I have them bi-amped to a pair of Allison CD-9's. In my living room, I'm running Marantz MM7055 w/ matching amp (too lazy to get the model, sorry!). This is a 5.1 system, I have a pair of Allison Ones up front, Allison Twos in the rear and an Infinity Beta for the center channel (I may replace this with an Allison Four I have soon). I have the latest Oppo player (BDP95, I think). That thing just rocks! Yesterday I was thinking about great production, as I switched from Donald Fagen's latest to Incubus' S.C.I.E.N.C.E. Anything Steely Dan related, Alan Parsons...just such good production. Parsons' 4.0 Quad mix of Dark Side of the Moon is just amazing. Search the internet, it's out there in glorious 24/96, completely unauthorized and extracted by some brave soul at the studio! I listened recently to Journey's Escape remaster (maybe the quietest vinyl I own), and Styx's Pieces of Eight. Blown away by these old recordings, they are both great remasters! Too bad surround music died quickly after a brief resurgence. I really love that stuff. Only a few titles a year come out, thank god for Steven Wilson and Porcupine Tree, they're trying their best to keep the format alive! So, what are you listening to and what are you listening to it on? I dont understand audiophiles. Just go buy a piano if you like music so much. My pair of Grados help me enjoy recorded music. You're already in the mess if you've got Grados! Succumb! You are an audiophile! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 48351094 United Kingdom 11/24/2013 03:58 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | a few more good recordings: Hadouk Trio ... Baldamore Leonard Cohen ... ten new songs Graham Nash ... songs for beginners Hugh Masekela ... Home Penguin Cafe Orchestra ... When in Rome Al di Meola,Paco de Lucía,John McLaughlin .. Friday night in San Fransisco Beach boys ... pet sounds Rolling stones ... stripped Fleet Foxes ... Fleet foxes Joe Bonammasa ... Blues Deluxe you can hear most of these on Grooveshark.com for free or on spotify.com (you have to pay on spotify) |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 8954279 Germany 11/24/2013 04:02 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | a few more good recordings: Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48351094 Al di Meola,Paco de Lucía,John McLaughlin .. Friday night in San Fransisco you can hear most of these on Grooveshark.com for free or on spotify.com (you have to pay on spotify) Man, I love that disc. Fleet Foxes eludes me still, is it worth the effort? |
Watdhel User ID: 50477455 United States 11/24/2013 04:16 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My receiver blew up when they put the "smart meter" on my house. & 2 others after that before I had them to pull it. The receiver I have now just doesn't cut it. I'm looking at the Outlaw Audio RR2150- [link to www.outlawaudio.com] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 25329397 Switzerland 11/24/2013 04:17 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My receiver blew up when they put the "smart meter" on my house. & 2 others after that before I had them to pull it. The receiver I have now just doesn't cut it. I'm looking at the Outlaw Audio RR2150- [link to www.outlawaudio.com] Quoting: Watdhel I love Outlaw & what they stand for! You can't go wrong with them...Bang/Buck can't be beat! |
Watdhel User ID: 50477455 United States 11/24/2013 04:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My receiver blew up when they put the "smart meter" on my house. & 2 others after that before I had them to pull it. The receiver I have now just doesn't cut it. I'm looking at the Outlaw Audio RR2150- [link to www.outlawaudio.com] Quoting: Watdhel I love Outlaw & what they stand for! You can't go wrong with them...Bang/Buck can't be beat! That's what I'm hoping for. This last receiver has been a real disappointment. Speakers are the same, it's like there is something missing tho. The receiver I have now is making me want to check my speakers for the Bose label on there somewhere!!! LOL |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 25329397 Switzerland 11/24/2013 04:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My receiver blew up when they put the "smart meter" on my house. & 2 others after that before I had them to pull it. The receiver I have now just doesn't cut it. I'm looking at the Outlaw Audio RR2150- [link to www.outlawaudio.com] Quoting: Watdhel I love Outlaw & what they stand for! You can't go wrong with them...Bang/Buck can't be beat! That's what I'm hoping for. This last receiver has been a real disappointment. Speakers are the same, it's like there is something missing tho. The receiver I have now is making me want to check my speakers for the Bose label on there somewhere!!! LOL Good luck! I Love my Outlaw sub. Bose? Sounds great, but WTF are they doing under the covers? I don't trust them one bit! |
all the horses and the king User ID: 4187178 Japan 11/24/2013 05:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | music is a form of alchemy...like art and photography, walking, all forms of collecting....even writing. Pure magic...that forms frame works with a child-like mind. So all gear is there working its thing, making us subjects, making us all wonder. A great wonderment. You got vacuum tubes....they have a long interesting history. You also got the stylus riding a single groove ...yet we hear not one but many instruments and voices too...this is just a hint of the spell that tickles our neurons. There are many points of view...on gear and sound production. Some people live in castles others live in tents. Yet each finds his own sense of adventure and conquest. I mean a pair of AR-4xs hooked up to a Dynaco stereo 35 can sound like heaven positioned in the right room. |
beemerben User ID: 41234428 United States 11/24/2013 05:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 48351094 United Kingdom 11/24/2013 05:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ernest Ranglin .... Below the baseline (different ... sort of jazzy/funky and a few good tracks on there) Hazmat Modine ... Bahamut .... you either love it or hate it ... My 3 all time favourite cd's (if I were only allowed to keep 3) Uriah Heep ... Demons and wizards Audience ... house on the hill Neil Young ... Decade |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 48351094 United Kingdom 11/24/2013 05:51 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | proper hifi is about matching the separate components ... you need an amp that goes well with a set of speakers, and that goes well with the cd player and cabling you can have $80k speakers and a expensive amp that is mismatched and the sound will be shit you also need to set the system up correctly in the room I have seen older systems for under £500 comprising of seperate units that work well together, and the systems sound better than systems of £6k+ |
Ithoth User ID: 47501706 Australia 11/24/2013 06:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Digital was put out to fuk your head,analogue is still the only way to listen to music, get some of those old 70s sound systems into your collection,I'm only a mid ranger but nakamichi,marantaz, sansui,garrard 301 tt,big old ar speakers,kef speakers,still do it for me,better than that Chinese,Taiwan Korean rubbish they try to pass off as audiophile gear, the japs,Brits,yanks put their heart and soul into that gear,unlike the Quik. buck mass produced plastic shite of today.remember frequency response,wavelength |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50478590 Ukraine 11/24/2013 10:03 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My receiver blew up when they put the "smart meter" on my house. & 2 others after that before I had them to pull it. The receiver I have now just doesn't cut it. I'm looking at the Outlaw Audio RR2150- [link to www.outlawaudio.com] Quoting: Watdhel What the heck do you think the correlation to the smart meter was, BTW? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50478590 Ukraine 11/24/2013 10:06 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | music is a form of alchemy...like art and photography, walking, all forms of collecting....even writing. Pure magic...that forms frame works with a child-like mind. So all gear is there working its thing, making us subjects, making us all wonder. A great wonderment. You got vacuum tubes....they have a long interesting history. You also got the stylus riding a single groove ...yet we hear not one but many instruments and voices too...this is just a hint of the spell that tickles our neurons. There are many points of view...on gear and sound production. Some people live in castles others live in tents. Yet each finds his own sense of adventure and conquest. I mean a pair of AR-4xs hooked up to a Dynaco stereo 35 can sound like heaven positioned in the right room. Quoting: all the horses and the king 4187178 Well said, agree completely, it is quite a journey to find a system that suits you! |