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Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...

 
Anonymous Coward
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08/02/2013 07:09 AM
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Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
I spoke with a first degree Freemason who admitted that he knew very little about the degrees above him (especially the highest degrees) and he admitted that many 33rd degree masons were totally corrupt and evil but he "knew" that Freemasonry was a good society overall...

Simple question:

How is it possible that Freemasons KNOW that the secret degrees above them are GOOD and that Freemasonry is a good society overall? (According to my experience and research there are many Masons who would say exactly what that what the guy I spoke to said.)

My opinion is that you don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret! That's simple logic that's irrefutable.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/02/2013 07:20 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
I'm pretty sure that this board is loaded with Freemasons, I want at least one answer.
Anonymous Coward
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08/02/2013 07:31 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
I spoke with a first degree Freemason who admitted that he knew very little about the degrees above him (especially the highest degrees) and he admitted that many 33rd degree masons were totally corrupt and evil but he "knew" that Freemasonry was a good society overall...

Simple question:

How is it possible that Freemasons KNOW that the secret degrees above them are GOOD and that Freemasonry is a good society overall? (According to my experience and research there are many Masons who would say exactly what that what the guy I spoke to said.)

My opinion is that you don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret! That's simple logic that's irrefutable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


There are a number of related organizations which have as a prerequisite to joining that one be a Master Mason. It's in these related organizations where the nefarious things happen.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 12615535
China
08/02/2013 07:34 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
I spoke with a first degree Freemason who admitted that he knew very little about the degrees above him (especially the highest degrees) and he admitted that many 33rd degree masons were totally corrupt and evil but he "knew" that Freemasonry was a good society overall...

Simple question:

How is it possible that Freemasons KNOW that the secret degrees above them are GOOD and that Freemasonry is a good society overall? (According to my experience and research there are many Masons who would say exactly what that what the guy I spoke to said.)

My opinion is that you don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret! That's simple logic that's irrefutable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


There are a number of related organizations which have as a prerequisite to joining that one be a Master Mason. It's in these related organizations where the nefarious things happen.
 Quoting: DrSalt


So you're an actual 33rd degree Mason then?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1352340
United States
08/02/2013 07:37 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
I spoke with a first degree Freemason who admitted that he knew very little about the degrees above him (especially the highest degrees) and he admitted that many 33rd degree masons were totally corrupt and evil but he "knew" that Freemasonry was a good society overall...

Simple question:

How is it possible that Freemasons KNOW that the secret degrees above them are GOOD and that Freemasonry is a good society overall? (According to my experience and research there are many Masons who would say exactly what that what the guy I spoke to said.)

My opinion is that you don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret! That's simple logic that's irrefutable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


That's easy. Because as you join the organization and work through the degrees you experience first hand the brotherhood and it's good work. You volunteer for various charity organizations, you attend various social events, you approach every person as a free and independent human of equal value and worth. You help your fellow man and fellow brothers however possible and necessary. You recognize yourself as one person, created by God, who's worth and value is measured by what you give back, not by what you take. Easy enough, huh?

Idol1
Anonymous Coward
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08/02/2013 07:43 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
I spoke with a first degree Freemason who admitted that he knew very little about the degrees above him (especially the highest degrees) and he admitted that many 33rd degree masons were totally corrupt and evil but he "knew" that Freemasonry was a good society overall...

Simple question:

How is it possible that Freemasons KNOW that the secret degrees above them are GOOD and that Freemasonry is a good society overall? (According to my experience and research there are many Masons who would say exactly what that what the guy I spoke to said.)

My opinion is that you don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret! That's simple logic that's irrefutable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


That's easy. Because as you join the organization and work through the degrees you experience first hand the brotherhood and it's good work. You volunteer for various charity organizations, you attend various social events, you approach every person as a free and independent human of equal value and worth. You help your fellow man and fellow brothers however possible and necessary. You recognize yourself as one person, created by God, who's worth and value is measured by what you give back, not by what you take. Easy enough, huh?

Idol1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1352340


+1

though I would put an 'a' or 'some kind of' in the sentence 'created by god'. Or replace god with 'higher being'.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 12615535
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08/02/2013 07:43 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
I spoke with a first degree Freemason who admitted that he knew very little about the degrees above him (especially the highest degrees) and he admitted that many 33rd degree masons were totally corrupt and evil but he "knew" that Freemasonry was a good society overall...

Simple question:

How is it possible that Freemasons KNOW that the secret degrees above them are GOOD and that Freemasonry is a good society overall? (According to my experience and research there are many Masons who would say exactly what that what the guy I spoke to said.)

My opinion is that you don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret! That's simple logic that's irrefutable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


That's easy. Because as you join the organization and work through the degrees you experience first hand the brotherhood and it's good work. You volunteer for various charity organizations, you attend various social events, you approach every person as a free and independent human of equal value and worth. You help your fellow man and fellow brothers however possible and necessary. You recognize yourself as one person, created by God, who's worth and value is measured by what you give back, not by what you take. Easy enough, huh?

Idol1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1352340


Not at all because many researchers say that the lower degrees are there for a show in order to protect the nefarious actions of the higher degrees.

Let me repeat:

You don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret!

Anyone who says otherwise is being disingenuous at best.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 42875131
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08/02/2013 07:45 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
I spoke with a first degree Freemason who admitted that he knew very little about the degrees above him (especially the highest degrees) and he admitted that many 33rd degree masons were totally corrupt and evil but he "knew" that Freemasonry was a good society overall...

Simple question:

How is it possible that Freemasons KNOW that the secret degrees above them are GOOD and that Freemasonry is a good society overall? (According to my experience and research there are many Masons who would say exactly what that what the guy I spoke to said.)

My opinion is that you don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret! That's simple logic that's irrefutable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


There are a number of related organizations which have as a prerequisite to joining that one be a Master Mason. It's in these related organizations where the nefarious things happen.
 Quoting: DrSalt


Seems they have things set up so that someone else can always be blamed
Anonymous Coward
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08/02/2013 07:48 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
I spoke with a first degree Freemason who admitted that he knew very little about the degrees above him (especially the highest degrees) and he admitted that many 33rd degree masons were totally corrupt and evil but he "knew" that Freemasonry was a good society overall...

Simple question:

How is it possible that Freemasons KNOW that the secret degrees above them are GOOD and that Freemasonry is a good society overall? (According to my experience and research there are many Masons who would say exactly what that what the guy I spoke to said.)

My opinion is that you don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret! That's simple logic that's irrefutable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


There are a number of related organizations which have as a prerequisite to joining that one be a Master Mason. It's in these related organizations where the nefarious things happen.
 Quoting: DrSalt


So you're an actual 33rd degree Mason then?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


No. There are no Masonic secrets these days. Anything you want to know can be found online. You can read their own texts. Masonic lodges have web sites. You can also find testimonies of former Masons. Master Masons have opportunities to further their studies in appendant degrees or in other organizations in such subjects as: comparative mythology, comparative religion, spiritual alchemy, necromancy, goetic evocation, enochian evocation, hermetic qabala, magnetism, etc.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/02/2013 07:48 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
Let me put this in metaphor:

Freemasonry is like walking down a dark alley and you have no idea what's in front of you in the alley until you get there.

I don't know how anyone could be comfortable with that. scream
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/02/2013 07:53 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
I spoke with a first degree Freemason who admitted that he knew very little about the degrees above him (especially the highest degrees) and he admitted that many 33rd degree masons were totally corrupt and evil but he "knew" that Freemasonry was a good society overall...

Simple question:

How is it possible that Freemasons KNOW that the secret degrees above them are GOOD and that Freemasonry is a good society overall? (According to my experience and research there are many Masons who would say exactly what that what the guy I spoke to said.)

My opinion is that you don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret! That's simple logic that's irrefutable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


There are a number of related organizations which have as a prerequisite to joining that one be a Master Mason. It's in these related organizations where the nefarious things happen.
 Quoting: DrSalt


So you're an actual 33rd degree Mason then?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


No. There are no Masonic secrets these days. Anything you want to know can be found online. You can read their own texts. Masonic lodges have web sites. You can also find testimonies of former Masons. Master Masons have opportunities to further their studies in appendant degrees or in other organizations in such subjects as: comparative mythology, comparative religion, spiritual alchemy, necromancy, goetic evocation, enochian evocation, hermetic qabala, magnetism, etc.
 Quoting: DrSalt


You don't know for sure until you get there, end of story.

This was written by a Masonic writer:

Freemasonry is labyrinthine. It is full of puzzles, conundrums, misspellings, corruptions, cryptic clues, and simple salutes, childish codes, contrivances, circular paths, roads that sometimes lead nowhere, walls appearing to be ten feet thick yet giving way easily to the lightest touch in the right spot, riddles to be solved, numerous passwords, an allegorical, highly symbolical, double-entendre storyline worthy of the best latter-day spy writers, protected by secret signs and symbols and a myriad of enigmas to be confronted…In the labyrinth that is Freemasonry there is a center where rests its holy grail. Many have tried to find it only to reach dead ends - Leon Davin (The Ritual: The Greatest Story Never Told)

[link to taroscopes.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20962751
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08/02/2013 07:55 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
...


There are a number of related organizations which have as a prerequisite to joining that one be a Master Mason. It's in these related organizations where the nefarious things happen.
 Quoting: DrSalt


So you're an actual 33rd degree Mason then?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


No. There are no Masonic secrets these days. Anything you want to know can be found online. You can read their own texts. Masonic lodges have web sites. You can also find testimonies of former Masons. Master Masons have opportunities to further their studies in appendant degrees or in other organizations in such subjects as: comparative mythology, comparative religion, spiritual alchemy, necromancy, goetic evocation, enochian evocation, hermetic qabala, magnetism, etc.
 Quoting: DrSalt


You don't know for sure until you get there, end of story.

This was written by a Masonic writer:

Freemasonry is labyrinthine. It is full of puzzles, conundrums, misspellings, corruptions, cryptic clues, and simple salutes, childish codes, contrivances, circular paths, roads that sometimes lead nowhere, walls appearing to be ten feet thick yet giving way easily to the lightest touch in the right spot, riddles to be solved, numerous passwords, an allegorical, highly symbolical, double-entendre storyline worthy of the best latter-day spy writers, protected by secret signs and symbols and a myriad of enigmas to be confronted…In the labyrinth that is Freemasonry there is a center where rests its holy grail. Many have tried to find it only to reach dead ends - Leon Davin (The Ritual: The Greatest Story Never Told)

[link to taroscopes.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


Why would you ask a question when you are so certain of your own answer?

What are YOU looking for?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 42875131
United States
08/02/2013 07:58 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
I spoke with a first degree Freemason who admitted that he knew very little about the degrees above him (especially the highest degrees) and he admitted that many 33rd degree masons were totally corrupt and evil but he "knew" that Freemasonry was a good society overall...

Simple question:

How is it possible that Freemasons KNOW that the secret degrees above them are GOOD and that Freemasonry is a good society overall? (According to my experience and research there are many Masons who would say exactly what that what the guy I spoke to said.)

My opinion is that you don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret! That's simple logic that's irrefutable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


That's easy. Because as you join the organization and work through the degrees you experience first hand the brotherhood and it's good work. You volunteer for various charity organizations, you attend various social events, you approach every person as a free and independent human of equal value and worth. You help your fellow man and fellow brothers however possible and necessary. You recognize yourself as one person, created by God, who's worth and value is measured by what you give back, not by what you take. Easy enough, huh?

Idol1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1352340


Is that when they have newer members interacting with all the front nonprofit orgs they run, family events, charity events, so that it all looks good to the members, and everyone else? Before these people get their first real assignment, such as a lawyer or judge being asked or told to make a wrong decision to get a fellow Mason off the hook? Before they find out what happens if they say no? It all looks good at first. But you don't have to be a member to google and read about past abuses of these charitable orgs fund raising. And it is rumored that the medical research they do is dubious, fraudulent, or not medical research at all. It might be experiments that are illegal. You want to get out of the Masons? You can't. If you try to, they will ruin your business, kill your family. It is happening to me. I was never even directly involved. I am the third generation they go after. They go that far. These people make life hell on earth for everyone.

IMO there should be a thorough investigation of all Masonic and fraternal orgs like them in this country, WITH PREJUDICE. They have cheated so many people with their lies of every kind. They require their members to tell so many lies that they become insane, no longer recognizing the difference between good and evil. They make morality relative to a degree where they actually turn it on its head. Every member should be debriefed by a special unadulterated law enforcement team charged with flushing these crooks and cronies out of the system, and getting justice for all the victims.

Then maybe we should exile the whole lousy, stinking group to their own private island somewhere very remote, like the moon, and take away all their technology (because this is how they have been able to ramp up their control of the rest of us) and let em play lord of the flies until kingdom come...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/02/2013 08:02 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
...


So you're an actual 33rd degree Mason then?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


No. There are no Masonic secrets these days. Anything you want to know can be found online. You can read their own texts. Masonic lodges have web sites. You can also find testimonies of former Masons. Master Masons have opportunities to further their studies in appendant degrees or in other organizations in such subjects as: comparative mythology, comparative religion, spiritual alchemy, necromancy, goetic evocation, enochian evocation, hermetic qabala, magnetism, etc.
 Quoting: DrSalt


You don't know for sure until you get there, end of story.

This was written by a Masonic writer:

Freemasonry is labyrinthine. It is full of puzzles, conundrums, misspellings, corruptions, cryptic clues, and simple salutes, childish codes, contrivances, circular paths, roads that sometimes lead nowhere, walls appearing to be ten feet thick yet giving way easily to the lightest touch in the right spot, riddles to be solved, numerous passwords, an allegorical, highly symbolical, double-entendre storyline worthy of the best latter-day spy writers, protected by secret signs and symbols and a myriad of enigmas to be confronted…In the labyrinth that is Freemasonry there is a center where rests its holy grail. Many have tried to find it only to reach dead ends - Leon Davin (The Ritual: The Greatest Story Never Told)

[link to taroscopes.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


Why would you ask a question when you are so certain of your own answer?

What are YOU looking for?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20962751


I'm looking for someone to actually explain the answer to my question in the original post or if my logic is wrong in the statement below then show me how and why it's wrong and I'll happily go do something else.

If you can refute this then I'll stop posting in this thread:

You don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 44052764
Puerto Rico
08/02/2013 08:05 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
I spoke with a first degree Freemason who admitted that he knew very little about the degrees above him (especially the highest degrees) and he admitted that many 33rd degree masons were totally corrupt and evil but he "knew" that Freemasonry was a good society overall...

Simple question:

How is it possible that Freemasons KNOW that the secret degrees above them are GOOD and that Freemasonry is a good society overall? (According to my experience and research there are many Masons who would say exactly what that what the guy I spoke to said.)

My opinion is that you don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret! That's simple logic that's irrefutable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


Depends if you can kiss the devil in the ass and find after that attempt that is only a test ...

Ant it symbolizes that for changing your evil ways you need to recognize the evil in you , yes your defects and eliminate them , that is what they refer "WORK with the devil" is not devil worship , ITS LOOKING AT YOUR OWN EVIL & ITS ELIMINATION thru work in conscious State of spirit & mind ....

There are Usurpers , evil people who took over many temples but the masters are still here guarding the knowledge .

Idol1
Anonymous Coward
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08/02/2013 08:05 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
...


There are a number of related organizations which have as a prerequisite to joining that one be a Master Mason. It's in these related organizations where the nefarious things happen.
 Quoting: DrSalt


So you're an actual 33rd degree Mason then?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


No. There are no Masonic secrets these days. Anything you want to know can be found online. You can read their own texts. Masonic lodges have web sites. You can also find testimonies of former Masons. Master Masons have opportunities to further their studies in appendant degrees or in other organizations in such subjects as: comparative mythology, comparative religion, spiritual alchemy, necromancy, goetic evocation, enochian evocation, hermetic qabala, magnetism, etc.
 Quoting: DrSalt


You don't know for sure until you get there, end of story.

This was written by a Masonic writer:

Freemasonry is labyrinthine. It is full of puzzles, conundrums, misspellings, corruptions, cryptic clues, and simple salutes, childish codes, contrivances, circular paths, roads that sometimes lead nowhere, walls appearing to be ten feet thick yet giving way easily to the lightest touch in the right spot, riddles to be solved, numerous passwords, an allegorical, highly symbolical, double-entendre storyline worthy of the best latter-day spy writers, protected by secret signs and symbols and a myriad of enigmas to be confronted…In the labyrinth that is Freemasonry there is a center where rests its holy grail. Many have tried to find it only to reach dead ends - Leon Davin (The Ritual: The Greatest Story Never Told)

[link to taroscopes.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


Online Masonic books listed on Masonic web sites:

[link to www.phoenixmasonry.org]

[link to www.themasonictrowel.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/02/2013 08:09 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
...


So you're an actual 33rd degree Mason then?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


No. There are no Masonic secrets these days. Anything you want to know can be found online. You can read their own texts. Masonic lodges have web sites. You can also find testimonies of former Masons. Master Masons have opportunities to further their studies in appendant degrees or in other organizations in such subjects as: comparative mythology, comparative religion, spiritual alchemy, necromancy, goetic evocation, enochian evocation, hermetic qabala, magnetism, etc.
 Quoting: DrSalt


You don't know for sure until you get there, end of story.

This was written by a Masonic writer:

Freemasonry is labyrinthine. It is full of puzzles, conundrums, misspellings, corruptions, cryptic clues, and simple salutes, childish codes, contrivances, circular paths, roads that sometimes lead nowhere, walls appearing to be ten feet thick yet giving way easily to the lightest touch in the right spot, riddles to be solved, numerous passwords, an allegorical, highly symbolical, double-entendre storyline worthy of the best latter-day spy writers, protected by secret signs and symbols and a myriad of enigmas to be confronted…In the labyrinth that is Freemasonry there is a center where rests its holy grail. Many have tried to find it only to reach dead ends - Leon Davin (The Ritual: The Greatest Story Never Told)

[link to taroscopes.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


Online Masonic books listed on Masonic web sites:

[link to www.phoenixmasonry.org]

[link to www.themasonictrowel.com]
 Quoting: DrSalt


Was Leon Davin a Masonic author or not? Micheal Tsarion claims he is, I'll take his word over yours unless you can prove otherwise?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 12615535
China
08/02/2013 08:11 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
I spoke with a first degree Freemason who admitted that he knew very little about the degrees above him (especially the highest degrees) and he admitted that many 33rd degree masons were totally corrupt and evil but he "knew" that Freemasonry was a good society overall...

Simple question:

How is it possible that Freemasons KNOW that the secret degrees above them are GOOD and that Freemasonry is a good society overall? (According to my experience and research there are many Masons who would say exactly what that what the guy I spoke to said.)

My opinion is that you don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret! That's simple logic that's irrefutable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


That's easy. Because as you join the organization and work through the degrees you experience first hand the brotherhood and it's good work. You volunteer for various charity organizations, you attend various social events, you approach every person as a free and independent human of equal value and worth. You help your fellow man and fellow brothers however possible and necessary. You recognize yourself as one person, created by God, who's worth and value is measured by what you give back, not by what you take. Easy enough, huh?

Idol1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1352340


Is that when they have newer members interacting with all the front nonprofit orgs they run, family events, charity events, so that it all looks good to the members, and everyone else? Before these people get their first real assignment, such as a lawyer or judge being asked or told to make a wrong decision to get a fellow Mason off the hook? Before they find out what happens if they say no? It all looks good at first. But you don't have to be a member to google and read about past abuses of these charitable orgs fund raising. And it is rumored that the medical research they do is dubious, fraudulent, or not medical research at all. It might be experiments that are illegal. You want to get out of the Masons? You can't. If you try to, they will ruin your business, kill your family. It is happening to me. I was never even directly involved. I am the third generation they go after. They go that far. These people make life hell on earth for everyone.

IMO there should be a thorough investigation of all Masonic and fraternal orgs like them in this country, WITH PREJUDICE. They have cheated so many people with their lies of every kind. They require their members to tell so many lies that they become insane, no longer recognizing the difference between good and evil. They make morality relative to a degree where they actually turn it on its head. Every member should be debriefed by a special unadulterated law enforcement team charged with flushing these crooks and cronies out of the system, and getting justice for all the victims.

Then maybe we should exile the whole lousy, stinking group to their own private island somewhere very remote, like the moon, and take away all their technology (because this is how they have been able to ramp up their control of the rest of us) and let em play lord of the flies until kingdom come...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42875131


What a horrifying story! I feel terrible for you.

Have you thought about leaving the United States and taking your family into essentially hiding? It sounds like that may be your only way out.
Anonymous Coward
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08/02/2013 08:11 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
You're asking about a fundamental human flaw. It is not exclusive to Freemasons.



Look around... everyone "KNOWS" their beliefs are right.


How many people just KNEW George zimmerman was a racist? How many people KNOW their religion is the only (or best) path to god? How many people KNOW their political beliefs are right? How many people just KNOW they are right and everyone else is wrong?

People spend their whole lives insisting they KNOW stuff when they rarely look at all the facts, and even more rarely question themselves or their beliefs


Theres no mystery on why the freemasons just KNOW the organization they chose is "good." They are simply defending their choice based on faulty beliefs like everyone else does.

Case closed.
Anonymous Coward
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08/02/2013 08:14 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
The pope welcomed fags into church .. try that in a mason lodge ....


flipskull_fingFlip
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Finland
08/02/2013 08:21 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
Well, either you have something to hide - or you don't.
Anonymous Coward
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08/02/2013 08:22 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
...


No. There are no Masonic secrets these days. Anything you want to know can be found online. You can read their own texts. Masonic lodges have web sites. You can also find testimonies of former Masons. Master Masons have opportunities to further their studies in appendant degrees or in other organizations in such subjects as: comparative mythology, comparative religion, spiritual alchemy, necromancy, goetic evocation, enochian evocation, hermetic qabala, magnetism, etc.
 Quoting: DrSalt


You don't know for sure until you get there, end of story.

This was written by a Masonic writer:

Freemasonry is labyrinthine. It is full of puzzles, conundrums, misspellings, corruptions, cryptic clues, and simple salutes, childish codes, contrivances, circular paths, roads that sometimes lead nowhere, walls appearing to be ten feet thick yet giving way easily to the lightest touch in the right spot, riddles to be solved, numerous passwords, an allegorical, highly symbolical, double-entendre storyline worthy of the best latter-day spy writers, protected by secret signs and symbols and a myriad of enigmas to be confronted…In the labyrinth that is Freemasonry there is a center where rests its holy grail. Many have tried to find it only to reach dead ends - Leon Davin (The Ritual: The Greatest Story Never Told)

[link to taroscopes.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


Online Masonic books listed on Masonic web sites:

[link to www.phoenixmasonry.org]

[link to www.themasonictrowel.com]
 Quoting: DrSalt


Was Leon Davin a Masonic author or not? Micheal Tsarion claims he is, I'll take his word over yours unless you can prove otherwise?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


I'm not giving you my word, you fool. I'm giving you the words of Masons themselves in their own books. There are encyclopedic works listed on those sites in which the allegories and symbols are spelled out in plain language, degree by degree.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 12615535
China
08/02/2013 08:24 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
You're asking about a fundamental human flaw. It is not exclusive to Freemasons.



Look around... everyone "KNOWS" their beliefs are right.


How many people just KNEW George zimmerman was a racist? How many people KNOW their religion is the only (or best) path to god? How many people KNOW their political beliefs are right? How many people just KNOW they are right and everyone else is wrong?

People spend their whole lives insisting they KNOW stuff when they rarely look at all the facts, and even more rarely question themselves or their beliefs


Theres no mystery on why the freemasons just KNOW the organization they chose is "good." They are simply defending their choice based on faulty beliefs like everyone else does.

Case closed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44430413


This is different, here's why...

In the other cases you mentioned there is no degree system where the content of the degree is a secret until you get there.

Let me repeat:

You don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret.

The above fact isn't true for the other situations you mentioned. I would say this question is fascinating because Freemasonry is so different in that aspect.

In the respect I mentioned, Freemasonry may be comparable to the military, it may be comparable to some corporations, it may be comparable to some governments/political parties, etc. but...

The point I'm bringing up separates Freemasonry from the things you mentioned.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20962751
Netherlands
08/02/2013 08:27 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
...


No. There are no Masonic secrets these days. Anything you want to know can be found online. You can read their own texts. Masonic lodges have web sites. You can also find testimonies of former Masons. Master Masons have opportunities to further their studies in appendant degrees or in other organizations in such subjects as: comparative mythology, comparative religion, spiritual alchemy, necromancy, goetic evocation, enochian evocation, hermetic qabala, magnetism, etc.
 Quoting: DrSalt


You don't know for sure until you get there, end of story.

This was written by a Masonic writer:

Freemasonry is labyrinthine. It is full of puzzles, conundrums, misspellings, corruptions, cryptic clues, and simple salutes, childish codes, contrivances, circular paths, roads that sometimes lead nowhere, walls appearing to be ten feet thick yet giving way easily to the lightest touch in the right spot, riddles to be solved, numerous passwords, an allegorical, highly symbolical, double-entendre storyline worthy of the best latter-day spy writers, protected by secret signs and symbols and a myriad of enigmas to be confronted…In the labyrinth that is Freemasonry there is a center where rests its holy grail. Many have tried to find it only to reach dead ends - Leon Davin (The Ritual: The Greatest Story Never Told)

[link to taroscopes.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


Why would you ask a question when you are so certain of your own answer?

What are YOU looking for?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20962751


I'm looking for someone to actually explain the answer to my question in the original post or if my logic is wrong in the statement below then show me how and why it's wrong and I'll happily go do something else.

If you can refute this then I'll stop posting in this thread:

You don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


Well, the only answer on that would be: yes, you don't know.

The basics of freemasonry is to search yourself with the help of other freemasons to eventually ascend and think and feel on a higher scale instead of just your own individual self and help others by all means...
So, maybe there are secrets further up the ladder, maybe there aren't. If the basics are something you belief it's good, your 'dark ally' could also be an enlightened path from which you do not know where it's heading or the secrets it contains, if it contains any to begin with.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 12615535
China
08/02/2013 08:29 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
...


You don't know for sure until you get there, end of story.

This was written by a Masonic writer:

Freemasonry is labyrinthine. It is full of puzzles, conundrums, misspellings, corruptions, cryptic clues, and simple salutes, childish codes, contrivances, circular paths, roads that sometimes lead nowhere, walls appearing to be ten feet thick yet giving way easily to the lightest touch in the right spot, riddles to be solved, numerous passwords, an allegorical, highly symbolical, double-entendre storyline worthy of the best latter-day spy writers, protected by secret signs and symbols and a myriad of enigmas to be confronted…In the labyrinth that is Freemasonry there is a center where rests its holy grail. Many have tried to find it only to reach dead ends - Leon Davin (The Ritual: The Greatest Story Never Told)

[link to taroscopes.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


Online Masonic books listed on Masonic web sites:

[link to www.phoenixmasonry.org]

[link to www.themasonictrowel.com]
 Quoting: DrSalt


Was Leon Davin a Masonic author or not? Micheal Tsarion claims he is, I'll take his word over yours unless you can prove otherwise?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


I'm not giving you my word, you fool. I'm giving you the words of Masons themselves in their own books. There are encyclopedic works listed on those sites in which the allegories and symbols are spelled out in plain language, degree by degree.
 Quoting: DrSalt


You're giving me your word about what?

Was Leon Davin a Masonic author or not? Yes or no?

Is the following statement true or false:

You don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret.

The fact is, if you're not at the top degree of Freemasonry you can't answer the above question because:

1. You don't know what the contents of the top degree of Freemasonry is until you get there.

2. If you were there you'd be sworn to secrecy about almost anything concerning the top degree.

Therefore, you're trying to totally BS everyone on this, period.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32062218
United States
08/02/2013 08:31 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
Let me put this in metaphor:

Freemasonry is like walking down a dark alley and you have no idea what's in front of you in the alley until you get there.

I don't know how anyone could be comfortable with that. scream
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


bump
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 12615535
China
08/02/2013 08:35 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
...


You don't know for sure until you get there, end of story.

This was written by a Masonic writer:

Freemasonry is labyrinthine. It is full of puzzles, conundrums, misspellings, corruptions, cryptic clues, and simple salutes, childish codes, contrivances, circular paths, roads that sometimes lead nowhere, walls appearing to be ten feet thick yet giving way easily to the lightest touch in the right spot, riddles to be solved, numerous passwords, an allegorical, highly symbolical, double-entendre storyline worthy of the best latter-day spy writers, protected by secret signs and symbols and a myriad of enigmas to be confronted…In the labyrinth that is Freemasonry there is a center where rests its holy grail. Many have tried to find it only to reach dead ends - Leon Davin (The Ritual: The Greatest Story Never Told)

[link to taroscopes.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


Why would you ask a question when you are so certain of your own answer?

What are YOU looking for?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20962751


I'm looking for someone to actually explain the answer to my question in the original post or if my logic is wrong in the statement below then show me how and why it's wrong and I'll happily go do something else.

If you can refute this then I'll stop posting in this thread:

You don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


Well, the only answer on that would be: yes, you don't know.

The basics of freemasonry is to search yourself with the help of other freemasons to eventually ascend and think and feel on a higher scale instead of just your own individual self and help others by all means...
So, maybe there are secrets further up the ladder, maybe there aren't. If the basics are something you belief it's good, your 'dark ally' could also be an enlightened path from which you do not know where it's heading or the secrets it contains, if it contains any to begin with.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20962751


Don't you see the contradiction in what you're saying?

Unless you're at the top degree of Freemasonry you don't know the true "basics of Freemasonry" because the whole thing could be turned on its head at the end and according to researchers like Bill Cooper, that's exactly what happens.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 865798
United States
08/02/2013 08:54 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
I spoke with a first degree Freemason who admitted that he knew very little about the degrees above him (especially the highest degrees) and he admitted that many 33rd degree masons were totally corrupt and evil but he "knew" that Freemasonry was a good society overall...

Simple question:

How is it possible that Freemasons KNOW that the secret degrees above them are GOOD and that Freemasonry is a good society overall? (According to my experience and research there are many Masons who would say exactly what that what the guy I spoke to said.)

My opinion is that you don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret! That's simple logic that's irrefutable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


That's easy. Because as you join the organization and work through the degrees you experience first hand the brotherhood and it's good work. You volunteer for various charity organizations, you attend various social events, you approach every person as a free and independent human of equal value and worth. You help your fellow man and fellow brothers however possible and necessary. You recognize yourself as one person, created by God, who's worth and value is measured by what you give back, not by what you take. Easy enough, huh?

Idol1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1352340


Not at all because many researchers say that the lower degrees are there for a show in order to protect the nefarious actions of the higher degrees.

Let me repeat:

You don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret!

Anyone who says otherwise is being disingenuous at best.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


So you admit that you know nothing of it being 'evil' or bad or anything, cause it's a secret. You speak of these researchers. Are they 33rd degree masons like you are requiring of these posters for 'proof'?

You are biased, and are getting fair answers, but refuse to believe these posters because of your bias. You do not want the truth, you only see what you want to see. In other words, a troll thread.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 12615535
China
08/02/2013 09:02 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
I spoke with a first degree Freemason who admitted that he knew very little about the degrees above him (especially the highest degrees) and he admitted that many 33rd degree masons were totally corrupt and evil but he "knew" that Freemasonry was a good society overall...

Simple question:

How is it possible that Freemasons KNOW that the secret degrees above them are GOOD and that Freemasonry is a good society overall? (According to my experience and research there are many Masons who would say exactly what that what the guy I spoke to said.)

My opinion is that you don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret! That's simple logic that's irrefutable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


That's easy. Because as you join the organization and work through the degrees you experience first hand the brotherhood and it's good work. You volunteer for various charity organizations, you attend various social events, you approach every person as a free and independent human of equal value and worth. You help your fellow man and fellow brothers however possible and necessary. You recognize yourself as one person, created by God, who's worth and value is measured by what you give back, not by what you take. Easy enough, huh?

Idol1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1352340


Not at all because many researchers say that the lower degrees are there for a show in order to protect the nefarious actions of the higher degrees.

Let me repeat:

You don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret!

Anyone who says otherwise is being disingenuous at best.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


So you admit that you know nothing of it being 'evil' or bad or anything, cause it's a secret. You speak of these researchers. Are they 33rd degree masons like you are requiring of these posters for 'proof'?

You are biased, and are getting fair answers, but refuse to believe these posters because of your bias. You do not want the truth, you only see what you want to see. In other words, a troll thread.
 Quoting: Septenary Spirals


I'm looking for someone to actually explain the answer to my question in the original post or if my logic is wrong in the statement below then show me how and why it's wrong and I'll happily go do something else.

If you can refute this then I'll stop posting in this thread:

You don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 865798
United States
08/02/2013 09:04 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
...


That's easy. Because as you join the organization and work through the degrees you experience first hand the brotherhood and it's good work. You volunteer for various charity organizations, you attend various social events, you approach every person as a free and independent human of equal value and worth. You help your fellow man and fellow brothers however possible and necessary. You recognize yourself as one person, created by God, who's worth and value is measured by what you give back, not by what you take. Easy enough, huh?

Idol1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1352340


Not at all because many researchers say that the lower degrees are there for a show in order to protect the nefarious actions of the higher degrees.

Let me repeat:

You don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret!

Anyone who says otherwise is being disingenuous at best.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


So you admit that you know nothing of it being 'evil' or bad or anything, cause it's a secret. You speak of these researchers. Are they 33rd degree masons like you are requiring of these posters for 'proof'?

You are biased, and are getting fair answers, but refuse to believe these posters because of your bias. You do not want the truth, you only see what you want to see. In other words, a troll thread.
 Quoting: Septenary Spirals


I'm looking for someone to actually explain the answer to my question in the original post or if my logic is wrong in the statement below then show me how and why it's wrong and I'll happily go do something else.

If you can refute this then I'll stop posting in this thread:

You don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12615535


So you admit that you know nothing of it being 'evil' or bad or anything, cause it's a secret. You speak of these researchers. Are they 33rd degree masons like you are requiring of these posters for 'proof'?

You are biased, and are getting fair answers, but refuse to believe these posters because of your bias. You do not want the truth, you only see what you want to see. In other words, a troll thread.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 40964118
United States
08/02/2013 09:10 AM
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Re: Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...
If you want to know the secret of all secret societies thats already public, but people, blind as they are, laugh and ignore, its this


We come from the stars, God is from the stars. We were created in a laboratory.

Its us in the future in the past so to speak. One day we will do the same (think Star Trek)

The other secret is, your cycles here on earth are in a formula from birth to death. You are living out a type of "program" thats downloaded at birth. Yes we are organic creatures that need sustanance, but at the same time, there is a computerized system, in advanced electromagnetic signals, that influence all events. There are those that know how to read these computations and they know the future and everything that is to happen