Simple yet profound question for Freemasons...

There you go OP. Now you know. You can stop posting now.

You're giving me your word about what?

You said, "I'll take his word over yours." And to that I replied, "I'm not giving you my word, you fool."

Was Leon Davin a Masonic author or not? Yes or no?

He is a Masonic author. And, you should consult the other Masonic authors whose works are listed on the sites for which I provided you links.

Is the following statement true or false:

You don't know what anything is above you in Freemasonry until you get there because it's a secret.

False. Masons or non-masons can easily read once-secret Masonic books that describe in minute detail the rituals of all degrees. Further, one can read in Masonic encyclopedias precisely what the symbols and allegories mean.

The fact is, if you're not at the top degree of Freemasonry you can't answer the above question because:

This is not a fact. Once upon a time Masonic books were not available to any and all. They are today.

1. You don't know what the contents of the top degree of Freemasonry is until you get there.

False. Again, you can easily read what those contents are if you take the time to research Masonic literature.

2. If you were there you'd be sworn to secrecy about almost anything concerning the top degree.

False. You are sworn to secrecy not to divulge passwords and handshakes that grant you access to places and events. What used to be secret content is now openly taught at universities, where once such things could only be discussed in whispers because of the intellectual stranglehold exercised by dogmatic Christians.

Therefore, you're trying to totally BS everyone on this, period.

Nonsense. You are woefully uninformed.

There's no contradiction there, you are making it a contradiction by assuming it will be 'turned on its head', and all because a researcher said it 'could be turned on its head'. The perspective from where your question comes from is not balanced: your cup is already full and you assume too much.

As to Freemasonry, I believe that their rituals and signs and initiations should remain within their organization. And that peoples inaccurate fears about them are unwarranted cause many of the lies you hear are simply not true. Lies are created by enemies or disgruntled people that could not get in.

Its secret for a reason, to be experienced, to not spoil it. To allow members to do the work and initiations and to learn its symbolisms under Providence.

so you fking mason i tell you know how dumb you are you one person in a special brotherhood

Your fkud up brotherhood do nothing more than nepotism. All the way you only serve people and their organisation who are "illuminatet", thats the term you guys use right?

The most of your members are spineless cowards never got to work a day because you fking father mother cusin or somewhat else disgusting is a freemason. You only see your brothers as equal human beeing, every other human you see as loot. This brotherhood gives only jobs and contracts to other members not to this one who makes the best offer.

Your charity organisations are held by members of yourself, and of course alot of money is used for accounting. The rest 10% goes to the place you pretend all of the money would go.

Nepotism cowards who pretend to be generously and honorable.
You give nothing back you give it to your brothers who in exchange do something for you or give your son a nice job. So your Brotherhood is nothing more than a pack of thugs who are not be able to life without a brotherhood which guides them through your pathetic life.

I do know the answer to the question and it was stated in this thread without it being explicitly stated, the answer is:

Faith

I guess I was given "fair answers" if one is willing to accept a belief system that relies on faith, I'm not, but that's a personal choice.

Now read the story of the guy who's life is being ruined by the Freemasons (posted earlier in this thread) and you'll see one reason why faith in the Freemasons is not a "fair" assumption imho.

You have been given excellent responses to your questions. Again, you made up your own mind, and refuse to accept logical, truthful answers.

If someone of a particular faith does horrible things, does that make the entire faith bad?

Of course not./

How can you say I made an assumption? I wrote "the whole thing could be turned on its head", I wasn't making an assumption.

You have to admit that's a possibility right?

Repeating the original question:

How is it possible that Freemasons KNOW that the secret degrees above them are GOOD and that Freemasonry is a good society overall?

How is that possible? Faith is the answer.

If you have a better answer then I'll listen.

No you won't. Did you read the responses above?

I read the whole thread. All of the answers you're referring to boil down to faith.

That shouldn't be a surprise anyway because I understand that American Freemasonry at least requires a belief in God so the whole thing is faith-based in a sense anyway. Correct?

Not really faith, but research of original material and discernment. One of which has been provided for you, the other of which you are entirely biased on.

Yes, a belief in God. Theres different levels of Gods, or creators, but in the ultimate God, you must have belief in him.

because the whole thing could be turned on its head according to researchers like Bill Cooper, "that's exactly what happens."
With that you're underlining a statement and assuming it WILL happen.. Otherwise you wouldn't have quoted him, hence, states your perspective.

As others already stated here, there is enough info on what freemasons do, why they do it, how they do it and the traditions they use.. You are not looking for an answer, but fantasizing a question nobody has an answer too, if (again) there even is an answer to begin with. (Meaning: who says there are secrets at the top other people don't know about).

You're gonna believe "material" over the evil being done by Freemasons all over the world which you can easily confirm?

Yes, it's definitely a faith-based belief system.

FFS. You already made up your mind. Again, this is a troll thread. You weren't really interested in a truthful answer. You were/are just baiting.

I found my answer to the original question in the OP, the answer is faith.

Why do you even care about that since (as far as I know all) Freemasonry requires a type of faith to begin with (a belief in God)?

It is well known that only the highest masons know the true meaning of some symbols

Masonry is secrets in secrets.

They tell you something, but when your degree goes it, you are told that that 'something' actually means something else and whne your degree goes up again, the same happens.

It keeps going untill the true nature of masonry is revealed.

According to Micheal Tsarion (he's not perfect but I'll put his word over anyone posting in this thread unless they've got good evidence at least) a Freemasonic author wrote the following quote. If it doesn't give you cause for concern, I don't know what to say.

Freemasonry is labyrinthine. It is full of puzzles, conundrums, misspellings, corruptions, cryptic clues, and simple salutes, childish codes, contrivances, circular paths, roads that sometimes lead nowhere, walls appearing to be ten feet thick yet giving way easily to the lightest touch in the right spot, riddles to be solved, numerous passwords, an allegorical, highly symbolical, double-entendre storyline worthy of the best latter-day spy writers, protected by secret signs and symbols and a myriad of enigmas to be confronted…In the labyrinth that is Freemasonry there is a center where rests its holy grail. Many have tried to find it only to reach dead ends - Leon Davin (The Ritual: The Greatest Story Never Told)

For the lower level initiates to think they know the whole truth is irrational and thus dependent on faith.

I suppose so. Secrets in secrets. I guess most of the low ranks ( like anyone under the rank 30 in the scottish rite. I suppose there are more than 33 degrees. Who would otherwise control and guide all those with rank 33? I suppose there are some of those with rank 33 who are of higher rank. Enough to controll and influence the decisions. Such an organisation cannot exist without a true head or council of limited people) are just 'dummies' to give the impression anyone can join. I guess you only learn to know the true secrets when you're like almost at the top.

And so it doesn't matter if the rituals are published or not.
The secrets are only given to high ranked persons, who are not known to be high ranked and wouldn't publish the true secrets as they might loose their position and power.

Last Edited by erchoz on 08/02/2013 10:31 AM

wrong their beleifs are not right...you need to get out more

Read 'Born In Blood'

a 33 degree freemason once told me that was one of the most accurate books he's come across demystifying the whole thing. I read it, it was pretty good. mostly historical and goes into some of the ritual aspects, but it doesn't divulge any super secrets.

free masonry is far from obtaining anything holy far far far from it...they try to weave a web and climb spiritual ladders with their mind not understanding that theyre not climbing up but down into to the abyss when they finally get there the baphomet will be waiting to spear them in the ass as a ty for joining...you cant get into the kingdom of heaven through the backdoor you have to enter via the holy spirit

you come from the baphomets ass basically and youre going nowhere

I thought they actually have to take an oath of secrecy under penalty of death and that's at the lower levels, right?

We can only imagine what it's like at the highest levels. My personal belief is that by the time one reaches the highest levels they're possessed to the point where they have little or no free will. That shouldn't be a surprise to fans of Icke or other "truth movement" leaders because I believe they almost all teach (so to speak) that.

I'm just repeating those people by the way, I made that conclusion after years of hard study. Now I'm aware that there's a real possibility that those people are replaced by androids or clones by the time they reach those levels as well.

I meant to write: I'm NOT just repeating those people by the way