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....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....

 
Sledster

User ID: 40297908
Germany
08/19/2013 02:58 PM

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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
Disgusting, you can't take someone's life to secure a few bucks. He should have just let the poor victim of social injustice take whatever he wanted and let him be.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


and how do you know this person is a victim of social injustice?

what exactly constitutes social injustice?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1409758


being a victim of segregation, poverty, bad upbringing and racism maybe? Did you have a choice over where and when you were born?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308



No, but I never made any excuses out of it either.
I'm tired of waiting, somebody push the damn button already!

Please ignore the German flag, I am an American.

Keep your 72 virgins, give me one old biker chick.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1516308
Netherlands
08/19/2013 03:00 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
...


For the most part criminals have guns to protect themselves from vigilantes who want to take justice into their own hands.

Here most criminals don't have guns cause they don't need to protect themselves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


^^^ Liberalism is a mental disorder ^^^ Shitty logic thinking there... Poor criminals. So what if criminals rape you and steal your money... It's all about welfare of poor criminals... wah! wah!

Grow a fucking brain, you retard.
 Quoting: AlcoholicRunner


So having a different opinion than others is a mental disorder? Very telling, I am being very reserved in my opinions, I could also be throwing around dick sizes and little man complexes but I try to stay civil.

Society is measured by how it treats it's poorest people. Criminals are for the most part victims of their upbringing and environment. They are so poor that they are practically forced to break the law. Nobody is going to starve themselves to death in order to follow the "holy" law. Nobody just wants to rob people and risk getting hurt or put in prison.

These people need help, not bullets between their eyes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308



Wow! Just wow!!

I have to make an assumption here, because I honestly do not understand the "live and let live" mentality you are spouting here. In your country, you are telling us, that it is perfectly acceptable to rob someone of their money, steal the things in their houses, maybe even carjack you at gunpoint, and the citizens accept this as normalcy? Maybe you treat your criminals too well. Here in the US, we EXPECT EVERYONE to obey the rule of Law. That is the norm, not the exception, and we dont allow someone's upbringing or lack thereof to become an excuse for bad behavior.

And how would you propose to "help" them?
Reward them for NOT robbing?
Give them Government assistance in order to stop them from having to steal?
Perhaps make donations to the local criminal's guild?

At some point every man must take personal responsibility for his actions. This is the premis that keeps civil societies civil, without personal responsibility there can be no civility.
 Quoting: Sledster


No ofcourse it is not normal, it is still punished by LAW, like it should, not by wannabe hero uncle Hank but by a judge who knows what the fuck she is talking about.

"And how would you propose to "help" them? "

Well what we do here is make sure prison sentences are not too harsh so that the person has a chance to get back into society. If you get 25 years for stealing a cookie how the fuck can they expect such a person not to be fucked up for life IF they are just petty burglars we offer them schooling and housing once they finished their sentencing, also to improve reintegration itno society. Again if you just let them rot with fellow criminals and not offer them anything you basically fuck up their lives for ever.

And how does it work?

Netherlands murders a year: 250

US murders a year: 15.000

Try to explain that Einstein.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 45126405
United States
08/19/2013 03:01 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
Disgusting, you can't take someone's life to secure a few bucks. He should have just let the poor victim of social injustice take whatever he wanted and let him be.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


and how do you know this person is a victim of social injustice?

what exactly constitutes social injustice?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1409758


being a victim of segregation, poverty, bad upbringing and racism maybe? Did you have a choice over where and when you were born?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308



No, but I never made any excuses out of it either.
 Quoting: Sledster


Right ...I had no choice in how or where I was born either.

I do have the choice between doing right from wrong.
AlcoholicRunner
I abduct humans and drink at the same time.

User ID: 32069520
United States
08/19/2013 03:05 PM

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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
...


^^^ Liberalism is a mental disorder ^^^ Shitty logic thinking there... Poor criminals. So what if criminals rape you and steal your money... It's all about welfare of poor criminals... wah! wah!

Grow a fucking brain, you retard.
 Quoting: AlcoholicRunner


So having a different opinion than others is a mental disorder? Very telling, I am being very reserved in my opinions, I could also be throwing around dick sizes and little man complexes but I try to stay civil.

Society is measured by how it treats it's poorest people. Criminals are for the most part victims of their upbringing and environment. They are so poor that they are practically forced to break the law. Nobody is going to starve themselves to death in order to follow the "holy" law. Nobody just wants to rob people and risk getting hurt or put in prison.

These people need help, not bullets between their eyes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308



Wow! Just wow!!

I have to make an assumption here, because I honestly do not understand the "live and let live" mentality you are spouting here. In your country, you are telling us, that it is perfectly acceptable to rob someone of their money, steal the things in their houses, maybe even carjack you at gunpoint, and the citizens accept this as normalcy? Maybe you treat your criminals too well. Here in the US, we EXPECT EVERYONE to obey the rule of Law. That is the norm, not the exception, and we dont allow someone's upbringing or lack thereof to become an excuse for bad behavior.

And how would you propose to "help" them?
Reward them for NOT robbing?
Give them Government assistance in order to stop them from having to steal?
Perhaps make donations to the local criminal's guild?

At some point every man must take personal responsibility for his actions. This is the premis that keeps civil societies civil, without personal responsibility there can be no civility.
 Quoting: Sledster


No ofcourse it is not normal, it is still punished by LAW, like it should, not by wannabe hero uncle Hank but by a judge who knows what the fuck she is talking about.

"And how would you propose to "help" them? "

Well what we do here is make sure prison sentences are not too harsh so that the person has a chance to get back into society. If you get 25 years for stealing a cookie how the fuck can they expect such a person not to be fucked up for life IF they are just petty burglars we offer them schooling and housing once they finished their sentencing, also to improve reintegration itno society. Again if you just let them rot with fellow criminals and not offer them anything you basically fuck up their lives for ever.

And how does it work?

Netherlands murders a year: 250

US murders a year: 15.000

Try to explain that Einstein.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


Total fail... A better way would be numbers per 100,000 or the rate or whatever. You ain't Einstein, that's for sure.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 45126405
United States
08/19/2013 03:05 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
...


^^^ Liberalism is a mental disorder ^^^ Shitty logic thinking there... Poor criminals. So what if criminals rape you and steal your money... It's all about welfare of poor criminals... wah! wah!

Grow a fucking brain, you retard.
 Quoting: AlcoholicRunner


So having a different opinion than others is a mental disorder? Very telling, I am being very reserved in my opinions, I could also be throwing around dick sizes and little man complexes but I try to stay civil.

Society is measured by how it treats it's poorest people. Criminals are for the most part victims of their upbringing and environment. They are so poor that they are practically forced to break the law. Nobody is going to starve themselves to death in order to follow the "holy" law. Nobody just wants to rob people and risk getting hurt or put in prison.

These people need help, not bullets between their eyes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308



Wow! Just wow!!

I have to make an assumption here, because I honestly do not understand the "live and let live" mentality you are spouting here. In your country, you are telling us, that it is perfectly acceptable to rob someone of their money, steal the things in their houses, maybe even carjack you at gunpoint, and the citizens accept this as normalcy? Maybe you treat your criminals too well. Here in the US, we EXPECT EVERYONE to obey the rule of Law. That is the norm, not the exception, and we dont allow someone's upbringing or lack thereof to become an excuse for bad behavior.

And how would you propose to "help" them?
Reward them for NOT robbing?
Give them Government assistance in order to stop them from having to steal?
Perhaps make donations to the local criminal's guild?

At some point every man must take personal responsibility for his actions. This is the premis that keeps civil societies civil, without personal responsibility there can be no civility.
 Quoting: Sledster


No ofcourse it is not normal, it is still punished by LAW, like it should, not by wannabe hero uncle Hank but by a judge who knows what the fuck she is talking about.

"And how would you propose to "help" them? "

Well what we do here is make sure prison sentences are not too harsh so that the person has a chance to get back into society. If you get 25 years for stealing a cookie how the fuck can they expect such a person not to be fucked up for life IF they are just petty burglars we offer them schooling and housing once they finished their sentencing, also to improve reintegration itno society. Again if you just let them rot with fellow criminals and not offer them anything you basically fuck up their lives for ever.

And how does it work?

Netherlands murders a year: 250

US murders a year: 15.000

Try to explain that Einstein.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308



Netherlands population vs. USA

Netherlands 16,796,200 August 19, 2013 0.24% Official
population clock

United States 316,484,000 August 19, 2013 4.45% Official population clock

Tad bit difference in numbers, eh?
FWIW
User ID: 33382770
United States
08/19/2013 03:06 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
...


Naturally. Stupid people will never understand "smart" people. It's the defining aspect of their stupidity. Can you understand that...at least? Stupid.
 Quoting: Chip


Ok you people just fail to understand my points. I think I am going to leave it here. You people just come from a different culture, you don't understand the value of a human being. You can't just point guns at people and think you are justified at doing so, that creates a lawless wild wild west scenario.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


We value human beings, Not scum that walk into a place and think that they are going to menace/murder people who are minding their own business. No one went out hunting the jackass, He volunteered to die when he pulled a gun!
 Quoting: FWIW 33382770


really? weird, I checked and pulling a gun on somebody is a crime not punishable by death, just a couple of years in prison. So it is 1 rule for normal people and another for people with guns?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


Self defense is still honored here. I'm not going to wrap myself around this axle with you. If I'm minding my own business and someone attacks me I will put them out of commission by any and all means necessary! I'm not saying that I will like it, I'm saying that it is necessary. God gave us survival instinct for a reason. This conversation is over.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1516308
Netherlands
08/19/2013 03:07 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
...


So having a different opinion than others is a mental disorder? Very telling, I am being very reserved in my opinions, I could also be throwing around dick sizes and little man complexes but I try to stay civil.

Society is measured by how it treats it's poorest people. Criminals are for the most part victims of their upbringing and environment. They are so poor that they are practically forced to break the law. Nobody is going to starve themselves to death in order to follow the "holy" law. Nobody just wants to rob people and risk getting hurt or put in prison.

These people need help, not bullets between their eyes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308



Wow! Just wow!!

I have to make an assumption here, because I honestly do not understand the "live and let live" mentality you are spouting here. In your country, you are telling us, that it is perfectly acceptable to rob someone of their money, steal the things in their houses, maybe even carjack you at gunpoint, and the citizens accept this as normalcy? Maybe you treat your criminals too well. Here in the US, we EXPECT EVERYONE to obey the rule of Law. That is the norm, not the exception, and we dont allow someone's upbringing or lack thereof to become an excuse for bad behavior.

And how would you propose to "help" them?
Reward them for NOT robbing?
Give them Government assistance in order to stop them from having to steal?
Perhaps make donations to the local criminal's guild?

At some point every man must take personal responsibility for his actions. This is the premis that keeps civil societies civil, without personal responsibility there can be no civility.
 Quoting: Sledster


No ofcourse it is not normal, it is still punished by LAW, like it should, not by wannabe hero uncle Hank but by a judge who knows what the fuck she is talking about.

"And how would you propose to "help" them? "

Well what we do here is make sure prison sentences are not too harsh so that the person has a chance to get back into society. If you get 25 years for stealing a cookie how the fuck can they expect such a person not to be fucked up for life IF they are just petty burglars we offer them schooling and housing once they finished their sentencing, also to improve reintegration itno society. Again if you just let them rot with fellow criminals and not offer them anything you basically fuck up their lives for ever.

And how does it work?

Netherlands murders a year: 250

US murders a year: 15.000

Try to explain that Einstein.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308



Netherlands population vs. USA

Netherlands 16,796,200 August 19, 2013 0.24% Official
population clock

United States 316,484,000 August 19, 2013 4.45% Official population clock

Tad bit difference in numbers, eh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45126405


Adjusted to population it is still 4.500 against 15.000

Check
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36793098
Canada
08/19/2013 03:07 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
This is in response to the Dutch person who thinks criminals should not be shot in self defense:

If three armed criminals enter your home or place of business, they aren't there for conversation. They are there to collect your things. The guns they brought with them are to counter any resistance from you. In other words, they intend to shoot you if you resist their efforts to take your things.

You can do two things here: 1) you can believe they won't REALLY kill you and just stand passively by and let them rob you, or 2) since you probably don't know them personally, you can assume you will be killed if you don't defend yourself. If YOU choose to be gullible and allow said thug(s) to relieve you of your property and possibly kill you or someone in your family, then go for it. As for us, we will pass on that and just go forward with relieving said POS of his life. Criminals are a detriment to society anyway. ARMED criminals forfeit any rights to their so-called "humanity" and the privilege to continue breathing. Have a nice day.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45318999
United States
08/19/2013 03:08 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
really? weird, I checked and pulling a gun on somebody is a crime not punishable by death, just a couple of years in prison. So it is 1 rule for normal people and another for people with guns?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


==========================AND==============================

For all we know he could be starving and just be in survival mode. YOu don't get to decide what the person's punishment should be, that is what judges are for. Not every criminal is evil. Some are just desperate.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


If you have a weapon and are committing a crime (break into a home etc.) you are implying that you are prepared to use that weapon. Your implication gives me the right to defend myself.

and...

Starving and in SURVIVAL MODE????? Does that mean I should go into victim mode???? His survival mode as you call it is even more reason for me to be in survival mode.
The social injustices you spoke of are BS. I am of Puerto Rican descent. I was born and raised in the projects until I was done with High School. I was brought up with no one but blacks and Hispanics around me and the few white people I knew were kids from school who were from "white boy neighborhood". The only difference between me and those victims of social injustice is that I had parents who dealt with those injustices WITHOUT putting blame on white people. I was raised to respect and treat other people as I would want to be treated. If I so much as thought of doing something wrong my father was there to give me the ass whooping that was deserved. I was taught that if I wanted something I had to word hard for it. Even today at 43 if I thought about stealing something my old man would probably beat my ass in a dream.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1516308
Netherlands
08/19/2013 03:09 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
...


Ok you people just fail to understand my points. I think I am going to leave it here. You people just come from a different culture, you don't understand the value of a human being. You can't just point guns at people and think you are justified at doing so, that creates a lawless wild wild west scenario.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


We value human beings, Not scum that walk into a place and think that they are going to menace/murder people who are minding their own business. No one went out hunting the jackass, He volunteered to die when he pulled a gun!
 Quoting: FWIW 33382770


really? weird, I checked and pulling a gun on somebody is a crime not punishable by death, just a couple of years in prison. So it is 1 rule for normal people and another for people with guns?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


Self defense is still honored here. I'm not going to wrap myself around this axle with you. If I'm minding my own business and someone attacks me I will put them out of commission by any and all means necessary! I'm not saying that I will like it, I'm saying that it is necessary. God gave us survival instinct for a reason. This conversation is over.
 Quoting: FWIW 33382770


I believe in self defense too.
But to me self defense isn't just killing.

Self defense is installing locks, camera's, a good door, know who is around, not letting strangers in, having a hot line to the cops.

There is so much you can do without resorting to killing.
Master X

User ID: 45416675
08/19/2013 03:11 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
Killing people because they steal a buck or 2 from you is just barbaric and uncivilised. That is why we have cops you savages.
Don't you value human life? Do you really think 10 bucks is more important than a human life?
I mean ffs, that is why murder is so rampant in the states, you kill each other over nothing, you just have to look at somebody sideways and boom, there goes your head cause pride is more important than life.

How do you even know the gun is real? Maybe it was just a confused teen in despiration, does he really deserve to die for 1 fuck up? Was your life really in danger? If you had just given him his money you would still be unharmed, the only thing that chances is that a human being gets a second chance at life.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


It was the perp that did not value human life enough to control himself you stupid nanny state loving fag. If a human being is stupid enough to take a firearm into an establishment and threaten peoples lives in order to get "a buck or two" he's worth more to society dead than alive.

God damn you're a stupid motherfucker!
 Quoting: Chip


SO why then does it work perfectly fine in my country? People get robbed but they just give them their stuff, nobody dies in the end and crime isn't worse here. What you just don't understand is that a human life is more valuable than a stupid crime. And how do you know he really threatened their lives? He didn't shoot at them right? The onyl person threatening someone's life was the "hero" bartender.

IMO even in 100% justified self defense you should go to prison for a year or so, taking a human life is ALWAYS bad.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


That last bit I just bolded was the most dumb shit I ever read. THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU.

Also, you do know in most circumstances, the police arrive AFTER the crime has been committed. Oh, I'm dead/mugged/raped/whatever, but hey, it's okay because the police have come to clean up the mess AFTER when I'm no longer in any danger? <_<

Last Edited by Master X on 08/19/2013 03:12 PM
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 23764026
United States
08/19/2013 03:11 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
...


We value human beings, Not scum that walk into a place and think that they are going to menace/murder people who are minding their own business. No one went out hunting the jackass, He volunteered to die when he pulled a gun!
 Quoting: FWIW 33382770


really? weird, I checked and pulling a gun on somebody is a crime not punishable by death, just a couple of years in prison. So it is 1 rule for normal people and another for people with guns?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


Self defense is still honored here. I'm not going to wrap myself around this axle with you. If I'm minding my own business and someone attacks me I will put them out of commission by any and all means necessary! I'm not saying that I will like it, I'm saying that it is necessary. God gave us survival instinct for a reason. This conversation is over.
 Quoting: FWIW 33382770


I believe in self defense too.
But to me self defense isn't just killing.

Self defense is installing locks, camera's, a good door, know who is around, not letting strangers in, having a hot line to the cops.

There is so much you can do without resorting to killing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


OK, a man with the gun has just kicked in your LOCKED door, the security alarm is going off, and you have just picked up the phone and dialed the cops.

He points the gun at you tells you to hang up the phone, and get on your knees.

What do you do?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1516308
Netherlands
08/19/2013 03:12 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
This is in response to the Dutch person who thinks criminals should not be shot in self defense:

If three armed criminals enter your home or place of business, they aren't there for conversation. They are there to collect your things. The guns they brought with them are to counter any resistance from you. In other words, they intend to shoot you if you resist their efforts to take your things.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36793098


Yes exactly so if you don't want to get shot don't attack the guys with guns.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1516308
Netherlands
08/19/2013 03:14 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
...


really? weird, I checked and pulling a gun on somebody is a crime not punishable by death, just a couple of years in prison. So it is 1 rule for normal people and another for people with guns?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


Self defense is still honored here. I'm not going to wrap myself around this axle with you. If I'm minding my own business and someone attacks me I will put them out of commission by any and all means necessary! I'm not saying that I will like it, I'm saying that it is necessary. God gave us survival instinct for a reason. This conversation is over.
 Quoting: FWIW 33382770


I believe in self defense too.
But to me self defense isn't just killing.

Self defense is installing locks, camera's, a good door, know who is around, not letting strangers in, having a hot line to the cops.

There is so much you can do without resorting to killing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


OK, a man with the gun has just kicked in your LOCKED door, the security alarm is going off, and you have just picked up the phone and dialed the cops.

He points the gun at you tells you to hang up the phone, and get on your knees.

What do you do?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23764026


If you had a good door nobody would be able to kick it in before the cops arrived. There are all kinds of things you can do to avoid needlessly killing people.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 45126405
United States
08/19/2013 03:14 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
...



Wow! Just wow!!

I have to make an assumption here, because I honestly do not understand the "live and let live" mentality you are spouting here. In your country, you are telling us, that it is perfectly acceptable to rob someone of their money, steal the things in their houses, maybe even carjack you at gunpoint, and the citizens accept this as normalcy? Maybe you treat your criminals too well. Here in the US, we EXPECT EVERYONE to obey the rule of Law. That is the norm, not the exception, and we dont allow someone's upbringing or lack thereof to become an excuse for bad behavior.

And how would you propose to "help" them?
Reward them for NOT robbing?
Give them Government assistance in order to stop them from having to steal?
Perhaps make donations to the local criminal's guild?

At some point every man must take personal responsibility for his actions. This is the premis that keeps civil societies civil, without personal responsibility there can be no civility.
 Quoting: Sledster


No ofcourse it is not normal, it is still punished by LAW, like it should, not by wannabe hero uncle Hank but by a judge who knows what the fuck she is talking about.

"And how would you propose to "help" them? "

Well what we do here is make sure prison sentences are not too harsh so that the person has a chance to get back into society. If you get 25 years for stealing a cookie how the fuck can they expect such a person not to be fucked up for life IF they are just petty burglars we offer them schooling and housing once they finished their sentencing, also to improve reintegration itno society. Again if you just let them rot with fellow criminals and not offer them anything you basically fuck up their lives for ever.

And how does it work?

Netherlands murders a year: 250

US murders a year: 15.000

Try to explain that Einstein.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308



Netherlands population vs. USA

Netherlands 16,796,200 August 19, 2013 0.24% Official
population clock

United States 316,484,000 August 19, 2013 4.45% Official population clock

Tad bit difference in numbers, eh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45126405


Adjusted to population it is still 4.500 against 15.000

Check
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


Outside the military, nobody in the Netherlands is allowed to own or shoot an automatic weapon.


So what are the rules governing gun ownership in the Netherlands? Dutch gun laws are actually quite strict. Gun ownership is seen not as a right, but a privilege, with hunting and target shooting the only two legitimate reasons for owning a gun.
[link to www.rnw.nl]

You'd never survive here.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36793098
Canada
08/19/2013 03:16 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
This is in response to the Dutch person who thinks criminals should not be shot in self defense:

If three armed criminals enter your home or place of business, they aren't there for conversation. They are there to collect your things. The guns they brought with them are to counter any resistance from you. In other words, they intend to shoot you if you resist their efforts to take your things.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36793098


Yes exactly so if you don't want to get shot don't attack the guys with guns.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


Let me rephrase that then. They intend to shoot you so that there are no witnesses to their crime. Remember, you don't know them. NOW WHAT?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1516308
Netherlands
08/19/2013 03:17 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
I seriously don't understand all this hate. I mean wtf, is the USA really so backwards that they don't respect human life and let anybody with a gun (and that is basically anybody) kill people?

Look at Europe and Australia, it is undeniably much better there, no killings and no guns. How can you sleep at night knowing your neighbour has a gun, that guy you used to fight with in high school now has loads of guns, etc. etc.?

How can you send your kids to school knowing that a maniac could pull a gun at any time and start murdering your children?

All studies show that guns increase the chance of violence and that people with guns have more chance to be killed by their own gun than by somebody else.

The USA is the only country with these kind of laws and it is a total shithole, worse than most warzones on earth.

I don't see how you can argue reality.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45318999
United States
08/19/2013 03:17 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
Yes exactly so if you don't want to get shot don't attack the guys with guns.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


Isn't that what everyone is explaining to you???? If you don't want to get shot DO NOT enter my home without permission and threaten me or my family.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36793098
Canada
08/19/2013 03:18 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
...


Self defense is still honored here. I'm not going to wrap myself around this axle with you. If I'm minding my own business and someone attacks me I will put them out of commission by any and all means necessary! I'm not saying that I will like it, I'm saying that it is necessary. God gave us survival instinct for a reason. This conversation is over.
 Quoting: FWIW 33382770


I believe in self defense too.
But to me self defense isn't just killing.

Self defense is installing locks, camera's, a good door, know who is around, not letting strangers in, having a hot line to the cops.

There is so much you can do without resorting to killing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


OK, a man with the gun has just kicked in your LOCKED door, the security alarm is going off, and you have just picked up the phone and dialed the cops.

He points the gun at you tells you to hang up the phone, and get on your knees.

What do you do?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23764026


If you had a good door nobody would be able to kick it in before the cops arrived. There are all kinds of things you can do to avoid needlessly killing people.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


These aren't people. People live in society amongst others without infringing on their rights or safety. Armed thugs threatening or killing others forfeit the right to live amongst the rest of us.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1516308
Netherlands
08/19/2013 03:19 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
This is in response to the Dutch person who thinks criminals should not be shot in self defense:

If three armed criminals enter your home or place of business, they aren't there for conversation. They are there to collect your things. The guns they brought with them are to counter any resistance from you. In other words, they intend to shoot you if you resist their efforts to take your things.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36793098


Yes exactly so if you don't want to get shot don't attack the guys with guns.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


Let me rephrase that then. They intend to shoot you so that there are no witnesses to their crime. Remember, you don't know them. NOW WHAT?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36793098


that only happens in movies, why would they murder people if they are just there to rob people? You just changed your robbery charge into a double or triple murder charge, yeah totally realistic. THe only time they would do that if they have murdered already and imo at that point you ARE allowed to use self defense.
Sledster

User ID: 40297908
Germany
08/19/2013 03:20 PM

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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
...


^^^ Liberalism is a mental disorder ^^^ Shitty logic thinking there... Poor criminals. So what if criminals rape you and steal your money... It's all about welfare of poor criminals... wah! wah!

Grow a fucking brain, you retard.
 Quoting: AlcoholicRunner


So having a different opinion than others is a mental disorder? Very telling, I am being very reserved in my opinions, I could also be throwing around dick sizes and little man complexes but I try to stay civil.

Society is measured by how it treats it's poorest people. Criminals are for the most part victims of their upbringing and environment. They are so poor that they are practically forced to break the law. Nobody is going to starve themselves to death in order to follow the "holy" law. Nobody just wants to rob people and risk getting hurt or put in prison.

These people need help, not bullets between their eyes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308



Wow! Just wow!!

I have to make an assumption here, because I honestly do not understand the "live and let live" mentality you are spouting here. In your country, you are telling us, that it is perfectly acceptable to rob someone of their money, steal the things in their houses, maybe even carjack you at gunpoint, and the citizens accept this as normalcy? Maybe you treat your criminals too well. Here in the US, we EXPECT EVERYONE to obey the rule of Law. That is the norm, not the exception, and we dont allow someone's upbringing or lack thereof to become an excuse for bad behavior.

And how would you propose to "help" them?
Reward them for NOT robbing?
Give them Government assistance in order to stop them from having to steal?
Perhaps make donations to the local criminal's guild?

At some point every man must take personal responsibility for his actions. This is the premis that keeps civil societies civil, without personal responsibility there can be no civility.
 Quoting: Sledster


No ofcourse it is not normal, it is still punished by LAW, like it should, not by wannabe hero uncle Hank but by a judge who knows what the fuck she is talking about.

"And how would you propose to "help" them? "

Well what we do here is make sure prison sentences are not too harsh so that the person has a chance to get back into society. If you get 25 years for stealing a cookie how the fuck can they expect such a person not to be fucked up for life IF they are just petty burglars we offer them schooling and housing once they finished their sentencing, also to improve reintegration itno society. Again if you just let them rot with fellow criminals and not offer them anything you basically fuck up their lives for ever.

And how does it work?

Netherlands murders a year: 250

US murders a year: 15.000

Try to explain that Einstein.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


On a per-capita basis we have less murder than you.
Do the math.

As far as fucking up their lives, we generally allow three strikes, just like baseball. After the third fuck-up, you're out of society. It seems to work fairly well.

Do you provide cable TV to your inmates?

Prison time is meant not to change a man, it is meant to hearden his heart. That's what it does.

The larger percentage of criminals who are incarcerated WILL become repeat offenders and serve multiple prison terms. That is just the way it is.

Let's get back to the root problem.

You dont believe a man should be expected to take personal responsibility for his actions.

That is the core of the liberal mindset.

Blame his upbringing.
Blame the system.
Blame his environment.
Blame the white man.
Blame the Jews.

Blame everything under the sun, but no, it's not his fault.


FUCK THAT!


I take my responsibility to my family very seriously, so seriously that I carry a gun every day to ensure that I can continue to work and provide for my family in the event that some idiot robs me and wants to shoot me.
I'm tired of waiting, somebody push the damn button already!

Please ignore the German flag, I am an American.

Keep your 72 virgins, give me one old biker chick.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 23764026
United States
08/19/2013 03:20 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
...


Self defense is still honored here. I'm not going to wrap myself around this axle with you. If I'm minding my own business and someone attacks me I will put them out of commission by any and all means necessary! I'm not saying that I will like it, I'm saying that it is necessary. God gave us survival instinct for a reason. This conversation is over.
 Quoting: FWIW 33382770


I believe in self defense too.
But to me self defense isn't just killing.

Self defense is installing locks, camera's, a good door, know who is around, not letting strangers in, having a hot line to the cops.

There is so much you can do without resorting to killing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


OK, a man with the gun has just kicked in your LOCKED door, the security alarm is going off, and you have just picked up the phone and dialed the cops.

He points the gun at you tells you to hang up the phone, and get on your knees.

What do you do?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23764026


If you had a good door nobody would be able to kick it in before the cops arrived. There are all kinds of things you can do to avoid needlessly killing people.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


What do you have now? A deadbolt? I can kick that in no problem. One swift kick.

A lock is to keep the honest man honest. It doesn't matter what you do, someone can get into your house.

The thing I'm getting at. Is what do you do when confronted with violence? Are you the type of person to allow yourself to be killed, trusting your attacker, or will you actually take an action to defend yourself.

Clearly crime isn't bad where you are. You should be very thankful for that, but if you haven't experienced it yet. There are some bad people out there that don't want your money, they want your life, or worse.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36793098
Canada
08/19/2013 03:21 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
I seriously don't understand all this hate. I mean wtf, is the USA really so backwards that they don't respect human life and let anybody with a gun (and that is basically anybody) kill people?

Look at Europe and Australia, it is undeniably much better there, no killings and no guns. How can you sleep at night knowing your neighbour has a gun, that guy you used to fight with in high school now has loads of guns, etc. etc.?

How can you send your kids to school knowing that a maniac could pull a gun at any time and start murdering your children?

All studies show that guns increase the chance of violence and that people with guns have more chance to be killed by their own gun than by somebody else.

The USA is the only country with these kind of laws and it is a total shithole, worse than most warzones on earth.

I don't see how you can argue reality.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


"All studies"? Which ones are those? Because if there WERE such studies, we'd hear them over and over and over on our left leaning news outlets, 24/7/365. Cite them or STFU.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1516308
Netherlands
08/19/2013 03:21 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
...


So having a different opinion than others is a mental disorder? Very telling, I am being very reserved in my opinions, I could also be throwing around dick sizes and little man complexes but I try to stay civil.

Society is measured by how it treats it's poorest people. Criminals are for the most part victims of their upbringing and environment. They are so poor that they are practically forced to break the law. Nobody is going to starve themselves to death in order to follow the "holy" law. Nobody just wants to rob people and risk getting hurt or put in prison.

These people need help, not bullets between their eyes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308



Wow! Just wow!!

I have to make an assumption here, because I honestly do not understand the "live and let live" mentality you are spouting here. In your country, you are telling us, that it is perfectly acceptable to rob someone of their money, steal the things in their houses, maybe even carjack you at gunpoint, and the citizens accept this as normalcy? Maybe you treat your criminals too well. Here in the US, we EXPECT EVERYONE to obey the rule of Law. That is the norm, not the exception, and we dont allow someone's upbringing or lack thereof to become an excuse for bad behavior.

And how would you propose to "help" them?
Reward them for NOT robbing?
Give them Government assistance in order to stop them from having to steal?
Perhaps make donations to the local criminal's guild?

At some point every man must take personal responsibility for his actions. This is the premis that keeps civil societies civil, without personal responsibility there can be no civility.
 Quoting: Sledster


No ofcourse it is not normal, it is still punished by LAW, like it should, not by wannabe hero uncle Hank but by a judge who knows what the fuck she is talking about.

"And how would you propose to "help" them? "

Well what we do here is make sure prison sentences are not too harsh so that the person has a chance to get back into society. If you get 25 years for stealing a cookie how the fuck can they expect such a person not to be fucked up for life IF they are just petty burglars we offer them schooling and housing once they finished their sentencing, also to improve reintegration itno society. Again if you just let them rot with fellow criminals and not offer them anything you basically fuck up their lives for ever.

And how does it work?

Netherlands murders a year: 250

US murders a year: 15.000

Try to explain that Einstein.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


On a per-capita basis we have less murder than you.
Do the math.


 Quoting: Sledster


Ok, 250 murders over 16.000.000 people

300/16=18.7
18.7x250=4.500

checkmate.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1516308
Netherlands
08/19/2013 03:23 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
I seriously don't understand all this hate. I mean wtf, is the USA really so backwards that they don't respect human life and let anybody with a gun (and that is basically anybody) kill people?

Look at Europe and Australia, it is undeniably much better there, no killings and no guns. How can you sleep at night knowing your neighbour has a gun, that guy you used to fight with in high school now has loads of guns, etc. etc.?

How can you send your kids to school knowing that a maniac could pull a gun at any time and start murdering your children?

All studies show that guns increase the chance of violence and that people with guns have more chance to be killed by their own gun than by somebody else.

The USA is the only country with these kind of laws and it is a total shithole, worse than most warzones on earth.

I don't see how you can argue reality.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


"All studies"? Which ones are those? Because if there WERE such studies, we'd hear them over and over and over on our left leaning news outlets, 24/7/365. Cite them or STFU.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36793098


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1516308
Netherlands
08/19/2013 03:24 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
The thing I'm getting at. Is what do you do when confronted with violence? Are you the type of person to allow yourself to be killed, trusting your attacker, or will you actually take an action to defend yourself.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23764026


Well my honest opinion and it might be a bit controversial is that it is better to be killed than to kill.

Killing is ALWAYS wrong.
Sledster

User ID: 40297908
Germany
08/19/2013 03:26 PM

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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
I seriously don't understand all this hate. I mean wtf, is the USA really so backwards that they don't respect human life and let anybody with a gun (and that is basically anybody) kill people?

Look at Europe and Australia, it is undeniably much better there, no killings and no guns. How can you sleep at night knowing your neighbour has a gun, that guy you used to fight with in high school now has loads of guns, etc. etc.?

How can you send your kids to school knowing that a maniac could pull a gun at any time and start murdering your children?All studies show that guns increase the chance of violence and that people with guns have more chance to be killed by their own gun than by somebody else.

The USA is the only country with these kind of laws and it is a total shithole, worse than most warzones on earth.

I don't see how you can argue reality.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308




Because an ARMED populace is a POLITE populace.
I'm tired of waiting, somebody push the damn button already!

Please ignore the German flag, I am an American.

Keep your 72 virgins, give me one old biker chick.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 45126405
United States
08/19/2013 03:27 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
...


So having a different opinion than others is a mental disorder? Very telling, I am being very reserved in my opinions, I could also be throwing around dick sizes and little man complexes but I try to stay civil.

Society is measured by how it treats it's poorest people. Criminals are for the most part victims of their upbringing and environment. They are so poor that they are practically forced to break the law. Nobody is going to starve themselves to death in order to follow the "holy" law. Nobody just wants to rob people and risk getting hurt or put in prison.

These people need help, not bullets between their eyes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308



Wow! Just wow!!

I have to make an assumption here, because I honestly do not understand the "live and let live" mentality you are spouting here. In your country, you are telling us, that it is perfectly acceptable to rob someone of their money, steal the things in their houses, maybe even carjack you at gunpoint, and the citizens accept this as normalcy? Maybe you treat your criminals too well. Here in the US, we EXPECT EVERYONE to obey the rule of Law. That is the norm, not the exception, and we dont allow someone's upbringing or lack thereof to become an excuse for bad behavior.

And how would you propose to "help" them?
Reward them for NOT robbing?
Give them Government assistance in order to stop them from having to steal?
Perhaps make donations to the local criminal's guild?

At some point every man must take personal responsibility for his actions. This is the premis that keeps civil societies civil, without personal responsibility there can be no civility.
 Quoting: Sledster


No ofcourse it is not normal, it is still punished by LAW, like it should, not by wannabe hero uncle Hank but by a judge who knows what the fuck she is talking about.

"And how would you propose to "help" them? "

Well what we do here is make sure prison sentences are not too harsh so that the person has a chance to get back into society. If you get 25 years for stealing a cookie how the fuck can they expect such a person not to be fucked up for life IF they are just petty burglars we offer them schooling and housing once they finished their sentencing, also to improve reintegration itno society. Again if you just let them rot with fellow criminals and not offer them anything you basically fuck up their lives for ever.

And how does it work?

Netherlands murders a year: 250

US murders a year: 15.000

Try to explain that Einstein.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


On a per-capita basis we have less murder than you.
Do the math.

As far as fucking up their lives, we generally allow three strikes, just like baseball. After the third fuck-up, you're out of society. It seems to work fairly well.

Do you provide cable TV to your inmates?

Prison time is meant not to change a man, it is meant to hearden his heart. That's what it does.

The larger percentage of criminals who are incarcerated WILL become repeat offenders and serve multiple prison terms. That is just the way it is.

Let's get back to the root problem.

You dont believe a man should be expected to take personal responsibility for his actions.

That is the core of the liberal mindset.

Blame his upbringing.
Blame the system.
Blame his environment.
Blame the white man.
Blame the Jews.

Blame everything under the sun, but no, it's not his fault.


FUCK THAT!


I take my responsibility to my family very seriously, so seriously that I carry a gun every day to ensure that I can continue to work and provide for my family in the event that some idiot robs me and wants to shoot me.
 Quoting: Sledster


clappa
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36793098
Canada
08/19/2013 03:27 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
This is in response to the Dutch person who thinks criminals should not be shot in self defense:

If three armed criminals enter your home or place of business, they aren't there for conversation. They are there to collect your things. The guns they brought with them are to counter any resistance from you. In other words, they intend to shoot you if you resist their efforts to take your things.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36793098


Yes exactly so if you don't want to get shot don't attack the guys with guns.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


Let me rephrase that then. They intend to shoot you so that there are no witnesses to their crime. Remember, you don't know them. NOW WHAT?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36793098


that only happens in movies, why would they murder people if they are just there to rob people? You just changed your robbery charge into a double or triple murder charge, yeah totally realistic. THe only time they would do that if they have murdered already and imo at that point you ARE allowed to use self defense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308


No, it happens all the time. Spend a few minutes on Google. People are murdered in cold blood with or without guns, everywhere. Those people weren't able to defend themselves. You probably live in an insular environment in the Netherlands. It isn't that way here, Jack. I'm not going to wait until he kills one of my kids before he gets shot. If I had been that bar tender, I wouldn't wait until he shot a customer, either. That is just ludicrous.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1516308
Netherlands
08/19/2013 03:28 PM
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Re: ....And Obama gonna take his gun? yeah right....
I seriously don't understand all this hate. I mean wtf, is the USA really so backwards that they don't respect human life and let anybody with a gun (and that is basically anybody) kill people?

Look at Europe and Australia, it is undeniably much better there, no killings and no guns. How can you sleep at night knowing your neighbour has a gun, that guy you used to fight with in high school now has loads of guns, etc. etc.?

How can you send your kids to school knowing that a maniac could pull a gun at any time and start murdering your children?All studies show that guns increase the chance of violence and that people with guns have more chance to be killed by their own gun than by somebody else.

The USA is the only country with these kind of laws and it is a total shithole, worse than most warzones on earth.

I don't see how you can argue reality.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1516308




Because an ARMED populace is a POLITE populace.
 Quoting: Sledster


yeah cause having machines that are solely used for killing makes people polite

putin

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