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The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!

 
Anonymous Coward
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08/22/2013 09:30 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Gospel of Luke was not written by Luke. You have to study the authorship of biblical books and how it was put together. The bible was not always as it appears today. The books that the church found favorable, were chosen to be put in the final product and the rest was burned or forgotten.

It is not "ripping a book out of the bible" when the bible was put together on the whims of clergy in the first place. There are multiple versions of the bible even today depending on which books people choose to keep and which to throw out. This along with the warning to not add or take anything from scripture shows that biblical inerrancy is false. Why would there need to be such a warning if God intended to preserve it intact down through the years, and why are there different versions in existence today?

I choose to follow Christ, and if that means following only His words from the oldest known manuscripts, then so be it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45568282


I HAVE studied. That's why and how I keep calling you out. Your parroting of that ridiculous "the church made up the canon with sinister intent" theory tells me you're just blowing smoke... as if any doubt remained by now. You think none of us have heard this crap before? People spread it around here every day.

But the fact remains that you HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THE ORIGINAL BIBLE WAS, so you have no way to show that what we have is not it. You can wave the Gnostic "gospels" around all you like, or whatever other rightfully discarded trash you may choose, and declare it "the truth", but that won't magically turn it into truth. Your "oldest known manuscripts" are exactly what the Bible we have today is made of. We have more and better attestation for them than for any other writings of the era.

I too follow Christ, but YOU HAVE NO WAY TO DISCERN WHO THE REAL CHRIST IS without the Bible; you make one up as you go along. Everybody thinks they can just go by their feelings alone, or their experiences, or their wishes, but that will only lead you to hell.

One more time: you have NOTHING on which to base your opinion of which ms. are true and which are false. Unless you read Greek/Hebrew and do your own research (which I highly doubt), you're a parrot.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode



If you had done research, you would know that the gospel of Luke was not written by Luke. You would know that 2 Peter was not written by Peter. This does not take knowledge of Hebrew (I can manage through Koine Greek if I need to), just knowledge of dates and the realization that Matthew, Mark, and Luke were all written as copy from another document. This is easy enough to see in the translations.

I don't follow gnostic gospels. I follow the new testament minus Paul and taking Acts with a grain of salt. I don't think Luke was malicious, but that he really believed Paul. He was just misguided.
Anonymous Coward
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08/22/2013 09:38 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Thank you GLP Christians.

One of the many things I really like about this place is so many of you.

Many of the sharpest, smartest, most-current, in-tune and faithful of Christians are engaged here.

Sure, so is everyone else. Every variety of opinion is represented...

There've been some really good answers in this thread and we can always learn from each other.
Keep2theCode

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08/22/2013 09:47 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
If you had done research, you would know that the gospel of Luke was not written by Luke. You would know that 2 Peter was not written by Peter. This does not take knowledge of Hebrew (I can manage through Koine Greek if I need to), just knowledge of dates and the realization that Matthew, Mark, and Luke were all written as copy from another document. This is easy enough to see in the translations.

I don't follow gnostic gospels. I follow the new testament minus Paul and taking Acts with a grain of salt. I don't think Luke was malicious, but that he really believed Paul. He was just misguided.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45568282


As I said but you ignored: BECAUSE I did research, I know that Luke did indeed write both the Gospel and Acts. Even Wikipedia agrees, and they're certainly not inclined to support Christianity. Even the "critical view" allows that it was written by a first-rate historian, hardly a shill for Paul.

As for Peter, even if you throw out 2 Peter you still have the deafening silence of ANY of the apostles giving warnings about Paul. Not so much as a whisper. Not from John, James, Jude, Matthew, Mark, Apollos, Priscilla, Acquilla, Ananias, Phillip, or anyone else.

And while the synoptics used common sources, they were not all written by one author. And if it was a deliberate collaboration, they did a poor job of faking things. Who else were the gospel writers supposed to interview for the life of Jesus, except those who were with him all the time?

You are also ignoring many key points that I and others have raised. I can understand why.

You have NO "new testament without Paul", since by your ridiculous reasoning I could implicate every single writer as a shill for Paul if I wanted to. And as I said and you ignored, NONE of the actual words of Jesus were recorded beyond "Talitha, koum" and "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabacthane". Everything else is a translation into Greek from the spoken Aramaic.

At least now you're trying to backpedal from your earlier dismissal of Luke as somehow a shill for Paul; I suppose that's progress. But the evidence for Luke as a first-rate historian, whose work could easily have been exposed or corrected by other apostles, refutes your silly claim that he was "misguided". LUKE TRAVELED WITH PAUL and faithfully recorded events. This was no idiot or fool.

You really should just throw the whole Bible out, since you have no grounds upon which to declare with expertise which parts are true and which are false.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
chauchat

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08/22/2013 10:00 PM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Gospel of Luke was not written by Luke. You have to study the authorship of biblical books and how it was put together. The bible was not always as it appears today. The books that the church found favorable, were chosen to be put in the final product and the rest was burned or forgotten.

It is not "ripping a book out of the bible" when the bible was put together on the whims of clergy in the first place. There are multiple versions of the bible even today depending on which books people choose to keep and which to throw out. This along with the warning to not add or take anything from scripture shows that biblical inerrancy is false. Why would there need to be such a warning if God intended to preserve it intact down through the years, and why are there different versions in existence today?

I choose to follow Christ, and if that means following only His words from the oldest known manuscripts, then so be it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45568282


I HAVE studied. That's why and how I keep calling you out. Your parroting of that ridiculous "the church made up the canon with sinister intent" theory tells me you're just blowing smoke... as if any doubt remained by now. You think none of us have heard this crap before? People spread it around here every day.

But the fact remains that you HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THE ORIGINAL BIBLE WAS, so you have no way to show that what we have is not it. You can wave the Gnostic "gospels" around all you like, or whatever other rightfully discarded trash you may choose, and declare it "the truth", but that won't magically turn it into truth. Your "oldest known manuscripts" are exactly what the Bible we have today is made of. We have more and better attestation for them than for any other writings of the era.

I too follow Christ, but YOU HAVE NO WAY TO DISCERN WHO THE REAL CHRIST IS without the Bible; you make one up as you go along. Everybody thinks they can just go by their feelings alone, or their experiences, or their wishes, but that will only lead you to hell.

One more time: you have NOTHING on which to base your opinion of which ms. are true and which are false. Unless you read Greek/Hebrew and do your own research (which I highly doubt), you're a parrot.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode



If you had done research, you would know that the gospel of Luke was not written by Luke. You would know that 2 Peter was not written by Peter. This does not take knowledge of Hebrew (I can manage through Koine Greek if I need to), just knowledge of dates and the realization that Matthew, Mark, and Luke were all written as copy from another document. This is easy enough to see in the translations.

I don't follow gnostic gospels. I follow the new testament minus Paul and taking Acts with a grain of salt. I don't think Luke was malicious, but that he really believed Paul. He was just misguided.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45568282


I apologize if some of you have seen this before because I have posted it before:

" The Roman Catholic Church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the Bible canon, and reference is made to the Council of Carthage (397 C.E.), where a catalog of books was formulated. The opposite is true, however, because the canon, including the list of books making up the Christian Greek Scriptures, was already settled by then, that is, not by the decree of any council, but by the direction of God’s holy spirit—the same spirit that inspired the writing of those books in the first place. The testimony of later noninspired catalogers is valuable only as an acknowledgment of the Bible canon, which God’s spirit had authorized.

18 The Evidence of Early Catalogs. A glance at the accompanying chart reveals that a number of fourth-century catalogs of the Christian Scriptures, dated prior to the above-mentioned council, agree exactly with our present canon, and some others omit only Revelation. Before the end of the second century, there is universal acceptance of the four Gospels, Acts, and 12 of the apostle Paul’s letters. Only a few of the smaller writings were doubted in certain areas. Likely this was so because such writings were limited in their initial circulation for one reason or another and thus took longer to become accepted as canonical." [link to wol.jw.org]

This article goes on to talk about the Muratorian Fragment and then gives a table [which I already know will not show up legibly here, from having tried before] of what books of the Christian Greek scriptures were accepted as part of the canon, when, and by whom.
Anonymous Coward
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08/22/2013 10:11 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
I DON'T CARE that Jesus was raised from the dead.
 Quoting: 4Q529
chauchat

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08/22/2013 10:17 PM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
If you had done research, you would know that the gospel of Luke was not written by Luke. You would know that 2 Peter was not written by Peter. This does not take knowledge of Hebrew (I can manage through Koine Greek if I need to), just knowledge of dates and the realization that Matthew, Mark, and Luke were all written as copy from another document. This is easy enough to see in the translations.

I don't follow gnostic gospels. I follow the new testament minus Paul and taking Acts with a grain of salt. I don't think Luke was malicious, but that he really believed Paul. He was just misguided.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45568282


As I said but you ignored: BECAUSE I did research, I know that Luke did indeed write both the Gospel and Acts. Even Wikipedia agrees, and they're certainly not inclined to support Christianity. Even the "critical view" allows that it was written by a first-rate historian, hardly a shill for Paul.

As for Peter, even if you throw out 2 Peter you still have the deafening silence of ANY of the apostles giving warnings about Paul. Not so much as a whisper. Not from John, James, Jude, Matthew, Mark, Apollos, Priscilla, Acquilla, Ananias, Phillip, or anyone else.

And while the synoptics used common sources, they were not all written by one author. And if it was a deliberate collaboration, they did a poor job of faking things. Who else were the gospel writers supposed to interview for the life of Jesus, except those who were with him all the time?

You are also ignoring many key points that I and others have raised. I can understand why.

You have NO "new testament without Paul", since by your ridiculous reasoning I could implicate every single writer as a shill for Paul if I wanted to. And as I said and you ignored, NONE of the actual words of Jesus were recorded beyond "Talitha, koum" and "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabacthane". Everything else is a translation into Greek from the spoken Aramaic.

At least now you're trying to backpedal from your earlier dismissal of Luke as somehow a shill for Paul; I suppose that's progress. But the evidence for Luke as a first-rate historian, whose work could easily have been exposed or corrected by other apostles, refutes your silly claim that he was "misguided". LUKE TRAVELED WITH PAUL and faithfully recorded events. This was no idiot or fool.

You really should just throw the whole Bible out, since you have no grounds upon which to declare with expertise which parts are true and which are false.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


You go girl!
Keep2theCode

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08/22/2013 10:23 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
You go girl!
 Quoting: chauchat


hf

And now I'm-a go sleep.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
chauchat

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08/22/2013 10:28 PM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
You go girl!
 Quoting: chauchat


hf

And now I'm-a go sleep.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


No wonder! Well earned rest.
Anonymous Coward
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08/22/2013 10:31 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
I choose to follow Christ, and if that means following only His words from the oldest known manuscripts, then so be it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45568282


Who do you say that Jesus Christ is what does "following" him mean to you?
Anonymous Coward
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08/22/2013 10:35 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
You are falling for the same trap, quoting Paul to justify Paul.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45568282

"Trapped" into believing Christ and serving each other.

Bwahahaahahaaa...
Hog Washer

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08/22/2013 10:46 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
We all fall short of God and He knows this. He uses us to His gain and His Will. There is not one in the Bible that stands up to God except His Son, Jesus Christ which is Emmanuel, God with us!

Praise the Lord, Glory to God Most High! His plan is perfect and will be revealed.

Thy Kingdom come,Thy will be done! Not mine, not yours.....Most High!
Anonymous Coward
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08/22/2013 10:48 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
If you had done research,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45568282
I think very little of your opinion when you are so disregarding and disrespecting of anothers obviously informed and sincere opinion. You arrogantly and presumptuously accuse that disagreeing with you means the other hasn't studied. That means you are saying there is no legitimate position and informed position but your own.
you would know that the gospel of Luke was not written by Luke.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45568282
Who wrote The Gospel According to Lukeand The Acts of the Apostles?
You would know that 2 Peter was not written by Peter. This does not take knowledge of Hebrew (I can manage through Koine Greek if I need to), just knowledge of dates and the realization that Matthew, Mark, and Luke were all written as copy from another document. This is easy enough to see in the translations.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45568282
Oh yeah... the mysteriously speculated Q document, right? A bunch of skeptics who don't believe the Bible sit around pontificating and speculating that nobody actually said, did or wrote anything as said. It's all evil, nefarious lies... to teach that you shouldn't lie and God Loves you.

It's quite the conspiracy.
Anonymous Coward
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08/22/2013 10:54 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
I apologize if some of you have seen this before because I have posted it before:

" The Roman Catholic Church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the Bible canon, and reference is made to the Council of Carthage (397 C.E.), where a catalog of books was formulated. The opposite is true, however, because the canon, including the list of books making up the Christian Greek Scriptures, was already settled by then, that is, not by the decree of any council, but by the direction of God’s holy spirit—the same spirit that inspired the writing of those books in the first place. The testimony of later noninspired catalogers is valuable only as an acknowledgment of the Bible canon, which God’s spirit had authorized.
 Quoting: chauchat


Exactly right.

Post it as often as you like and as often as it applies because it will probably reach somebody new for the first time, whether today or years from now.

Exactly right. Just like two centuries after throwing Christians to the lions, in a new power play, the collapsed Caesar power structure of Rome co-opts the faith as their own, so that makes Christianity of Rome?!
chauchat

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08/23/2013 02:39 AM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
I apologize if some of you have seen this before because I have posted it before:

" The Roman Catholic Church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the Bible canon, and reference is made to the Council of Carthage (397 C.E.), where a catalog of books was formulated. The opposite is true, however, because the canon, including the list of books making up the Christian Greek Scriptures, was already settled by then, that is, not by the decree of any council, but by the direction of God’s holy spirit—the same spirit that inspired the writing of those books in the first place. The testimony of later noninspired catalogers is valuable only as an acknowledgment of the Bible canon, which God’s spirit had authorized.
 Quoting: chauchat


Exactly right.

Post it as often as you like and as often as it applies because it will probably reach somebody new for the first time, whether today or years from now.

Exactly right. Just like two centuries after throwing Christians to the lions, in a new power play, the collapsed Caesar power structure of Rome co-opts the faith as their own, so that makes Christianity of Rome?!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821


thank you. I like what you've posted on this thread. Especially the one just above this one about the mysterious "Q Document" and the "sitting around pontificating" lol!
I know people who just eat all that stuff up and think the participants are ever so brave, which I just can't figure out. Well actually, think I just did figure out because supporters can congratulate themselves on their own bravery by extension, right? Having the "bravery" to support these supposed "mavericks". I'm postin' pretty reckless and probably should quit for now .hf

Last Edited by chauchat on 08/23/2013 02:41 AM
4Q529

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08/23/2013 04:45 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
"For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him."

You impose your false ideas on this verse.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45544474


All you have to do to resolve this issue is to explain what this statement means and how it relates to the previous statements.

But don't start at the end of the reply.

Start at the beginning, by explaining what Jesus means by the statement "You are wrong."

That's all you have to do.

You can throw stones all day long against the Truth; but, until you explain precisely where I am in error--until you can explain the flow of the argument and the specific relevance of each thing Jesus says--it is of no avail.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


1. You are in error because you do not know the power of God, or
You are in error because you do not know the scriptures
2. Sadducees did not believe in resurrection
3. Sadducees gave him an example concerning the physical
resurrection of the dead, 7 brothers married to 1 woman.
4. Sadducees, who did not believe in resurrection, asked Jesus whose wife she will be upon resurrection
5. He confirms resurrection
He denies the resurrection to involve marriage
30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven
6. He denies that they are dead to God. When He told Moses (after the physical deaths of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) that "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob" He was confirming that to God - Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were still living, not dead. Their physical bodies had long returned to the dust, but they themselves still lived.

We see this in the example and why Moses commanded that a brother of a dead man was to marry the widow and raise up children for his dead brother. The woman spiritually was one with the dead husband, and therefore any children born to the brother are still the dead brothers lineage. In this manner, as the author of creation, every person living in the 'mind' of God comes into this world. Just because one brother dies does not mean that his descendants do not come forth into the world. They do.

God is a God of the Living because like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, at the time of Moses, long after their physical death, they still are living. He is still their God. And they will receive a new body, what that will be we do not know, but just as we see that Jesus showed a body after resurrection which was somehow different, those too in Christ will receive such.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45557573

Most excellent response. Thorough and Biblically-sound. The benefit will be for someone else however, because 4q529 will have none of it. There is no point in answering his questions. They are not questions. They are self-assertions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821


"Biblically-sound" means NOTHING when Paul contradicts Jesus.

Let me tell you something.

The last time I met so many sniveling cowards all in one place was when I challenged the Jesus Seminar to a private debate on the Doctrine of "resurrection" in October, 1986--people are never allowed to address the general meeting; but, somehow, I convinced the moderator.

There was a murmur around the room and I was then asked "What is the other side of the argument?" by a Ph.D. theologian from Texas.

I told him: "The Truth. That Jesus presents a figurative description of the revelation of the memories of previous lives in his reply to the Sadducees"; then telling them that I would wager some $8,000 that they would lose the debate...even though they would be the ones to decide who had won.

They declined, but...

Some 11 years later, Marcus Borg, a founding member of the Jesus Seminar that I had addressed that day, wrote a book entitled Jesus and Buddha--the Parallel Sayings (look it up) in which he wrote that the similarity between the Teaching of Jesus and the teaching of the Buddha most probably derived 'from a similarity in religious experience'--his words; but never once acknowledging my statements to him from 1986. (What that 'similarity' was was the receiving of the memories of previous lives--duhhhh.)

You Christians--every one of you--remind me of the Cardinal who was so terrified that he refused even to look through Galileo's telescope, calling it an "instrument of the devil".

You Christians are terrified of looking too closely and carefully at the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees. You are nothing but sniveling cowards.

Michael

Last Edited by 4Q529 on 08/23/2013 05:01 AM
4Q529

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08/23/2013 04:52 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
If you had done research, you would know that the gospel of Luke was not written by Luke. You would know that 2 Peter was not written by Peter. This does not take knowledge of Hebrew (I can manage through Koine Greek if I need to), just knowledge of dates and the realization that Matthew, Mark, and Luke were all written as copy from another document. This is easy enough to see in the translations.

I don't follow gnostic gospels. I follow the new testament minus Paul and taking Acts with a grain of salt. I don't think Luke was malicious, but that he really believed Paul. He was just misguided.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45568282


As I said but you ignored: BECAUSE I did research, I know that Luke did indeed write both the Gospel and Acts. Even Wikipedia agrees, and they're certainly not inclined to support Christianity.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Are you KIDDING me?

In the page on "resurrection", they WILL NOT ALLOW the Doctrine of "resurrection" to be MENTIONED as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'--even as a "minority" point of view.

This is also why the Roman church, after exterminating the Albigensians, then destroyed their writings.

Can't have the Truth even written ANYWHERE.

Michael

Last Edited by 4Q529 on 08/23/2013 04:53 AM
Keep2theCode

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08/23/2013 06:56 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
If you had done research, you would know that the gospel of Luke was not written by Luke. You would know that 2 Peter was not written by Peter. This does not take knowledge of Hebrew (I can manage through Koine Greek if I need to), just knowledge of dates and the realization that Matthew, Mark, and Luke were all written as copy from another document. This is easy enough to see in the translations.

I don't follow gnostic gospels. I follow the new testament minus Paul and taking Acts with a grain of salt. I don't think Luke was malicious, but that he really believed Paul. He was just misguided.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45568282


As I said but you ignored: BECAUSE I did research, I know that Luke did indeed write both the Gospel and Acts. Even Wikipedia agrees, and they're certainly not inclined to support Christianity.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Are you KIDDING me?

In the page on "resurrection", they WILL NOT ALLOW the Doctrine of "resurrection" to be MENTIONED as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'--even as a "minority" point of view.

This is also why the Roman church, after exterminating the Albigensians, then destroyed their writings.

Can't have the Truth even written ANYWHERE.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


NO, the REAL reason they won't let you add that is because it is BASELESS. For all its faults, even wikipedia has standards, including corroborating documentation from legitimate sources.

Resurrection is not just a doctrine, it is a FACT OF HISTORY for ONE PERSON ONLY. It is an event which many scholars have investigated with the intent to prove it never happened, only to become Christians themselves once they honestly examined the evidence.

Resurrection is NOT rebirth as in the ENDLESS rebirth of reincarnation, which someone else so ably refuted earlier. It is YOU who are trapped, in a never-ending hell of cycles and circles. Jesus is the only way out.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2013 07:41 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


Why are there several versions of the Bible right now?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1416114


Because there are slight differences in words between languages.

There are not different books proclaiming different messages.

Can you understand this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45544474


But there are different Bibles that are using the aame langauge.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1416114


One reason is any swinging dick reprobate like ol mickey can publish a book and call it a bible.

The KJV is all you need.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42022752


How do we know that the KJV is the right one?
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2013 07:48 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
It may take a few week (or months), but I'll do my best to calculate how many decades I've been saying this.

(Saint) Paul wasn't just "a jew," he had also been a Pharisee which was the group who demanded that the Roman governor (P.Pilate) crucify him. He also was (as the Scriptures say)a persecutor of the Christians.

If you ever get to be an e-friend of an Israeli Jewish person, you could ask what most Israelis think about him. You will probably be very surprised to find out what they think about Saul (whose name had to be changed because everyone knows it's a Jewish-only name).
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


Because there are slight differences in words between languages.

There are not different books proclaiming different messages.

Can you understand this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45544474


But there are different Bibles that are using the aame langauge.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1416114


One reason is any swinging dick reprobate like ol mickey can publish a book and call it a bible.

The KJV is all you need.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42022752


How do we know that the KJV is the right one?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1416114


They've many movies and TV shows about the KJV. Go find some and knock yourself out!
Keep2theCode

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
It may take a few week (or months), but I'll do my best to calculate how many decades I've been saying this.

(Saint) Paul wasn't just "a jew," he had also been a Pharisee which was the group who demanded that the Roman governor (P.Pilate) crucify him. He also was (as the Scriptures say)a persecutor of the Christians.

If you ever get to be an e-friend of an Israeli Jewish person, you could ask what most Israelis think about him. You will probably be very surprised to find out what they think about Saul (whose name had to be changed because everyone knows it's a Jewish-only name).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44497368


And as I have been saying, Paul was a completely changed man who hated his former life and considered himself "the least of all the apostles" for his having persecuted Christians in the past. Those same Pharisees hounded him for the rest of his life and eventually got him killed. So Paul was a martyr for Christ, having suffered much for His sake, having started many churches and kept them from bondage to the very law he once promoted.

Many who disparage Paul forget what James and Peter said at the Jerusalem Council:
So the ambassadors and elders convened a meeting to consider the matter. After much discussion Peter stood up and addressed them... "So why, then, are you now provoking God by putting on their necks a harness that neither we nor our ancestors could bear? No, it is through the favor of Master Jesus that we believe and are saved, the same way they are."
...
When they were done, James responded: "..."Therefore, it is my judgment that we should not harass the non-Judeans who are turning toward God."
 Quoting: Acts 15:6--19

And for those who dismiss Luke out of hand, let them produce evidence that Peter or James or anyone else disputed this Council.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2013 08:17 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Here, let me straighten out this whole argument:

The Bible was written BY the jews and FOR the jews. it has nothing to do with non jews today, and it has no purpose other than to keep jews in line with their own ancient beliefs.
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2013 08:22 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Jesus have done nothing silly and without a logic, correct?

Why He has prepared 12 apostles, knowing there is 13-th! Saul!

Where was Saul, when Jesus was walking on Earth?

How such marvelous and God' fearing man could miss Son of God?

Never heard His sermon, never attended His teachings?

Jesus instead appointing Saul as an apostles, he has chosen 12 instead, and later Mattias replaced Judas.

Heavenly Jerusalem has only 12 gates named names of His 12 apostles.

There is no room for the 13-th!

Why Peter got keys to God's Kingdom - not Paul?

Paul doesn't have two witnesses his 'conversion', which also is seriously distorted.

Apostles of Christ seen and heard all teachings of Christ and with THEM He has made His Covenant, based on His shed blood. He made a covenant with Kingdom

Paul was not included in that most important event!!!

Don't you think, that is something seriously wrong wit Saul/Paul?

It's much more than that!
4Q529

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08/23/2013 10:00 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
If you had done research, you would know that the gospel of Luke was not written by Luke. You would know that 2 Peter was not written by Peter. This does not take knowledge of Hebrew (I can manage through Koine Greek if I need to), just knowledge of dates and the realization that Matthew, Mark, and Luke were all written as copy from another document. This is easy enough to see in the translations.

I don't follow gnostic gospels. I follow the new testament minus Paul and taking Acts with a grain of salt. I don't think Luke was malicious, but that he really believed Paul. He was just misguided.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45568282


As I said but you ignored: BECAUSE I did research, I know that Luke did indeed write both the Gospel and Acts. Even Wikipedia agrees, and they're certainly not inclined to support Christianity.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Are you KIDDING me?

In the page on "resurrection", they WILL NOT ALLOW the Doctrine of "resurrection" to be MENTIONED as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'--even as a "minority" point of view.

This is also why the Roman church, after exterminating the Albigensians, then destroyed their writings.

Can't have the Truth even written ANYWHERE.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


NO, the REAL reason they won't let you add that is because it is BASELESS. For all its faults, even wikipedia has standards, including corroborating documentation from legitimate sources.

Resurrection is not just a doctrine, it is a FACT OF HISTORY for ONE PERSON ONLY. It is an event which many scholars have investigated with the intent to prove it never happened, only to become Christians themselves once they honestly examined the evidence.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


For the gazillionth time, I am NOT talking about the raising of Jesus, the messiah, from the grave.

I am talking about the DOCTRINE that he taught, the DOCTRINE for which he was murdered.

"honestly examine the evidence" found in the reply to the Sadducees.

Walk me through the reply step by step, telling me what Jesus means by what he says.

First of all, you can start by explaining to me where in the Torah (this is what is signified when Jesus uses the word "scriptures"--in other words, NOT the Prophets)--that is, in what specific Chapter and verse--are the Sadducees told that they are wrong merely for asking the question.

Should be easy for you to do, since you know so much.

Michael
Keep2theCode

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08/23/2013 10:02 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Jesus have done nothing silly and without a logic, correct?

Why He has prepared 12 apostles, knowing there is 13-th! Saul!

Where was Saul, when Jesus was walking on Earth?

How such marvelous and God' fearing man could miss Son of God?

Never heard His sermon, never attended His teachings?

Jesus instead appointing Saul as an apostles, he has chosen 12 instead, and later Mattias replaced Judas.

Heavenly Jerusalem has only 12 gates named names of His 12 apostles.

There is no room for the 13-th!

Why Peter got keys to God's Kingdom - not Paul?

Paul doesn't have two witnesses his 'conversion', which also is seriously distorted.

Apostles of Christ seen and heard all teachings of Christ and with THEM He has made His Covenant, based on His shed blood. He made a covenant with Kingdom

Paul was not included in that most important event!!!

Don't you think, that is something seriously wrong wit Saul/Paul?

It's much more than that!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45235543

PAUL NEVER CLAIMED TO BE ONE OF THE "TWELVE".

Never. Not once.

Are you denying that there were other apostles besides the Twelve? Maybe you never read that part.

And why did NOT ONE of the Twelve rebuke Paul? Answer that, without claiming somebody covered it up.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode

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08/23/2013 10:06 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
For the gazillionth time, I am NOT talking about the raising of Jesus, the messiah, from the grave.

I am talking about the DOCTRINE that he taught, the DOCTRINE for which he was murdered.

"honestly examine the evidence" found in the reply to the Sadducees.

Walk me through the reply step by step, telling me what Jesus means by what he says.

First of all, you can start by explaining to me where in the Torah (this is what is signified when Jesus uses the word "scriptures"--in other words, NOT the Prophets)--that is, in what specific Chapter and verse--are the Sadducees told that they are wrong merely for asking the question.

Should be easy for you to do, since you know so much.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


And YOU aren't claiming to "know so much"? Pot, meet kettle.

Jesus did NOT teach any such doctrine as rebirth or reincarnation; THAT is what you have no corroborating evidence for, and why wiki won't give you the time of day.

Show me, oh demanding one, where Jesus said the Sadducees couldn't even ask the question or asked the wrong question.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
4Q529

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08/23/2013 10:10 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
NO, the REAL reason they won't let you add that is because it is BASELESS. For all its faults, even wikipedia has standards, including corroborating documentation from legitimate sources.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Massacre at Montsegur--have you ever read it?--is a legitimate source when investigating the history of the Albigensian Crusade. And one of the things said in that book is that the Albigensians were considered the "Western Buddhists". (And what do Buddhists teach? A doctrine of 'Rebirth'. But was there any EVIDENCE of Buddhist documents with the Albigensians? NONE. So where did this Doctrine come from?)

All of that is permitted, as far as I remember, on Wikipedia.

What is NOT permitted is saying that the Doctrine of "resurrection" is a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

At that statement, all of Judaism, Christianity and Islam raises holy hell...

Because it threatens their economic interests.

At that point, Massacre at Montsegur is no longer a "legitimate" source, 'legitimate' sources being considered ONLY those that do not contradict the monotheistic DISinterpretation of the Doctrine of "resurrection".

Meanwhile, after the the Roman church exterminated tens of thousands of Albigensians (because it could NOT defeat them in debate--read the literature), it then made haste to DESTROY all of the legitimate sources for what the Albigensians believed; completely rewriting the history of those beliefs in the escalation of the totalitarian war against the Truth.

Michael

Last Edited by 4Q529 on 08/23/2013 10:15 AM
4Q529

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08/23/2013 10:13 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Show me, oh demanding one, where Jesus said the Sadducees couldn't even ask the question or asked the wrong question.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


NOW NOW NOW we are getting some place.

You're on the right track.

WHY is the question asked by the Sadducees WRONG?

And WHERE in the Torah is that to be found?

Michael
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08/23/2013 10:15 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
[link to www.justgivemethetruth.com]

The Apostle Paul Was A Deceiver!

He was Satan In The Flesh! An Antichrist!

Matthew 24:4-5 states you will be deceived by people that come using Jesus’ name. Consider the parable of the sower. Jesus was warning us then that as soon as His Gospel was preached, the enemy (Paul) would be there to steal the truth!


***The real (untranslated) name of Jesus is Y'hoshua (pronounced like the name Joshua but with a Y, YoHoshua, some pronounce his name as Yeshua). All refer to the Son of God who came as the promised Messiah who died on the cross for our sins and rose again.

Now before you throw a tantrum and wonder why I haven't been struck by lightening straight from the throne room of God, I can prove to you that Paul was a Fraud using his own words. Of course, if you're a female, and you're in the ministry, you already know he was, you probably just didn't realize it! For to be a female and in the ministry of the Lord, you had to turn your back on Paul to follow Jesus. Congrats! You figured it out! You refused to buy into the lie pie Satan tried to sell you as Paul!

I'm going to make some startling points to wake your mind up into the truth, so hear me out, then I'll go through and explain each one and give you all the proof you need to see for yourself that what I'm saying is indeed the truth.

Paul was Satan in the Flesh

Paul was never recognized as an apostle by the Disciples OR Jesus

Paul was never trained by the disciples, the men who walked, talked, and broke bread with our Saviour. He received his knowledge from "revelations."

Paul's account of his Damascus Road Experience changed every time he told it, thus the disciples knew he was lying.

Paul declared he was teaching another Gospel of which he himself was the Father

Paul declared he himself was the son of God

Paul issued his own commandments and laws for people to adhere to

Paul taught the exact Opposite of what Jesus and His real disciples did.

Paul worked to destroy and undo everything Jesus and His disciples did and were doing.

Paul was never repentant for being the greatest persecutor of Christians at that time! He boasted about it! Over and Over!

Paul said God's law was a Curse. Jesus said it was a blessing. Who's lying?

Paul condemned Jesus and His disciples for false teachings, he condemned Jesus Himself for having long hair in 1 Corinthians 11:14, something approved in Numbers 6:5 and Judges 13:5.

Jesus Said: Keep the Sabbath (Mark 2:27), circumcise male children (Luke 2:21), Paul Said: Circumcision is not necessary (Romans 2:26) that is going against what the Christ said in Luke 2:21.

In 1 Corinthians 15:1 Paul says that he was not giving them anything but what “he preached.” He explained this even further in the second book (or letter) to the Corinthians (2 Corinthians 11:17). It reads - “That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.” He's telling you plain and simple he was speaking of himself and not from or of the Lord!"

Paul cursed Jesus and His disciples

Paul claimed he himself was the son of God

Paul Supported and demanded Adherence to Iniquity (Discrimination), Jesus said to not let it be found among us! Who's lying?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 510799

The bible is bullshit and there is all there is to it. Stop obsessing over nonsense. The word of god is short and simple.

Love.

That is it. Anything else is a lie.
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2013 10:16 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
I agree 100% with this thread.

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