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The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!

 
4Q529

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08/23/2013 10:18 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
The word of god is short and simple.

Love.

That is it. Anything else is a lie.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


NOT according to Chapter 12, verses 9-10 of the Book of Daniel.

But, of course, you know more than Daniel ever did.

Yeah. Sure.

Michael

Last Edited by 4Q529 on 08/23/2013 10:22 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
The Great and Magnificent Super Michael 4Q529,

Who do YOU say that Jesus Christ is?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45544474


Who do YOU say that Mohammed is...

Who testified that Jesus was the messiah?

What makes the most difference about both Jesus and Mohammed is not who they were, but what they taught.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


4Q529, Who do you say that Jesus Christ is?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821
Keep2theCode

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08/23/2013 10:29 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
NO, the REAL reason they won't let you add that is because it is BASELESS. For all its faults, even wikipedia has standards, including corroborating documentation from legitimate sources.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Massacre at Montsegur--have you ever read it?--is a legitimate source when investigating the history of the Albigensian Crusade. And one of the things said in that book is that the Albigensians were considered the "Western Buddhists". (And what do Buddhists teach? A doctrine of 'Rebirth'. But was there any EVIDENCE of Buddhist documents with the Albigensians? NONE. So where did this Doctrine come from?)

All of that is permitted, as far as I remember, on Wikipedia.

What is NOT permitted is saying that the Doctrine of "resurrection" is a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

At that statement, all of Judaism, Christianity and Islam raises holy hell...

Because it threatens their economic interests.

At that point, Massacre at Montsegur is no longer a "legitimate" source, 'legitimate' sources being considered ONLY those that do not contradict the monotheistic DISinterpretation of the Doctrine of "resurrection".

Meanwhile, after the the Roman church exterminated tens of thousands of Albigensians (because it could NOT defeat them in debate--read the literature), it then made haste to DESTROY all of the legitimate sources for what the Albigensians believed; completely rewriting the history of those beliefs in the escalation of the totalitarian war against the Truth.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529

If you have a problem with wiki, don't go whining to me about it. Show proof that they only rejected your nonsense for financial reasons. But really, I don't care about your spat with wiki; that's between you and them.

As for your argument about why you believe 'rebirth' should be allowed, you're ignoring the fact that Christianity never taught such a thing as that 'rebirth' has anything at all to do with resurrection. YOU, not the Bible in any corner of it, are making that false connection. THIS IS ABOUT THE BIBLE, remember? You will NOT find any such teaching as 'rebirth' equated with 'resurrection'. The ONLY thing about 'being born again' is the conversation with Nicodemas where Jesus explained that it meant BORN OF THE SPIRIT, NOT BORN MULTIPLE TIMES TO RID ONESELF OF KARMA. I don't know how else to explain this to you.

Show me, oh demanding one, where Jesus said the Sadducees couldn't even ask the question or asked the wrong question.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


NOW NOW NOW we are getting some place.

You're on the right track.

WHY is the question asked by the Sadducees WRONG?

And WHERE in the Torah is that to be found?

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529

Getting some place? Please. Here, I'll paste the passage for you:
Later that day the Sadducees, who don't believe in the resurrection, came to him. They said, "Teacher, Moses said that if someone died childless, his brother was obligated to marry the widow and produce offspring for him...."

This was Jesus' response: "You are misled, because you understand neither that scripture nor the power of God."
 Quoting: Mat. 22:23--28


See exactly what they say Moses said? It is that if someone died without heirs, his brother had to marry the widow. It is first mentioned in Genesis 38:6-11, but codified in the Mosaic law in Deut. 25:5-10.

I SINCERELY hope that you understand this now, and stop this ridiculous attempt to shoehorn 'rebirth' into the Bible.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 08/23/2013 10:30 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
There is no reasoning with you. You will hear nothing, yield nothing, admit nothing, change nothing, because you know everything and you are perfect.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45544474
4Q529

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
4Q529, Who do you say that Jesus Christ is?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821


You should pay closer attention.

This question was already answered a few replies above.

Michael
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08/23/2013 10:32 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Most excellent response. Thorough and Biblically-sound. The benefit will be for someone else however, because 4q529 will have none of it. There is no point in answering his questions. They are not questions. They are self-assertions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
4Q529, Who do you say that Jesus Christ is?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821


You should pay closer attention.

This question was already answered a few replies above.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


Only a self-deceived deceiver such as yourself would have the slightest hesitation or objection to answering that question. You evade it every time.

4Q529, please speak simply, plainly and directly.

Who do YOU say that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is?
4Q529

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08/23/2013 10:37 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
NO, the REAL reason they won't let you add that is because it is BASELESS. For all its faults, even wikipedia has standards, including corroborating documentation from legitimate sources.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Massacre at Montsegur--have you ever read it?--is a legitimate source when investigating the history of the Albigensian Crusade. And one of the things said in that book is that the Albigensians were considered the "Western Buddhists". (And what do Buddhists teach? A doctrine of 'Rebirth'. But was there any EVIDENCE of Buddhist documents with the Albigensians? NONE. So where did this Doctrine come from?)

All of that is permitted, as far as I remember, on Wikipedia.

What is NOT permitted is saying that the Doctrine of "resurrection" is a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

At that statement, all of Judaism, Christianity and Islam raises holy hell...

Because it threatens their economic interests.

At that point, Massacre at Montsegur is no longer a "legitimate" source, 'legitimate' sources being considered ONLY those that do not contradict the monotheistic DISinterpretation of the Doctrine of "resurrection".

Meanwhile, after the the Roman church exterminated tens of thousands of Albigensians (because it could NOT defeat them in debate--read the literature), it then made haste to DESTROY all of the legitimate sources for what the Albigensians believed; completely rewriting the history of those beliefs in the escalation of the totalitarian war against the Truth.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529

If you have a problem with wiki, don't go whining to me about it. Show proof that they only rejected your nonsense for financial reasons. But really, I don't care about your spat with wiki; that's between you and them.

As for your argument about why you believe 'rebirth' should be allowed, you're ignoring the fact that Christianity never taught such a thing as that 'rebirth' has anything at all to do with resurrection. YOU, not the Bible in any corner of it, are making that false connection. THIS IS ABOUT THE BIBLE, remember? You will NOT find any such teaching as 'rebirth' equated with 'resurrection'. The ONLY thing about 'being born again' is the conversation with Nicodemas where Jesus explained that it meant BORN OF THE SPIRIT, NOT BORN MULTIPLE TIMES TO RID ONESELF OF KARMA. I don't know how else to explain this to you.

Show me, oh demanding one, where Jesus said the Sadducees couldn't even ask the question or asked the wrong question.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


NOW NOW NOW we are getting some place.

You're on the right track.

WHY is the question asked by the Sadducees WRONG?

And WHERE in the Torah is that to be found?

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529

Getting some place? Please. Here, I'll paste the passage for you:
Later that day the Sadducees, who don't believe in the resurrection, came to him. They said, "Teacher, Moses said that if someone died childless, his brother was obligated to marry the widow and produce offspring for him...."

This was Jesus' response: "You are misled, because you understand neither that scripture nor the power of God."
 Quoting: Mat. 22:23--28


See exactly what they say Moses said? It is that if someone died without heirs, his brother had to marry the widow. It is first mentioned in Genesis 38:6-11, but codified in the Mosaic law in Deut. 25:5-10.

I SINCERELY hope that you understand this now, and stop this ridiculous attempt to shoehorn 'rebirth' into the Bible.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I already understand all of that.

More than you do.

But that is not RELEVANT as to WHY the Sadducees are WRONG for asking the question.

And don't be disappointed because you can't find that in the Torah.

In more than 37 years, I have been unable to find one Ph.D. Jewish or Christian theologian that can find that either.

Do me a favor.

Read both replies of Jesus to the Sadducees once, twice, three and four times in a row in about 15 minutes and just TRY to impose the Christian interpretation on what he says.

What happens?

Do things become clearer?

Then try just READING them without turning IMMEDIATELY to the Christian interpretation of what he says.

What happens?

Michael
Keep2theCode

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08/23/2013 10:43 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
I already understand all of that.

More than you do.
 Quoting: 4Q529

Yeah, sure you do, oh conceited one.


But that is not RELEVANT as to WHY the Sadducees are WRONG for asking the question.

And don't be disappointed because you can't find that in the Torah.

In more than 37 years, I have been unable to find one Ph.D. Jewish or Christian theologian that can find that either.
 Quoting: 4Q529

If you spent less time insulting others in order to keep pumping up your ego, you would be much better off and able to grasp what we're saying.

Do me a favor.

Read both replies of Jesus to the Sadducees once, twice, three and four times in a row in about 15 minutes and just TRY to impose the Christian interpretation on what he says.
 Quoting: 4Q529

Read it more times than you know. Understand it too. Know why? Because I read it IN CONTEXT and don't try to impose ridiculous, self-defeating philosophies on it.


What happens?

Do things become clearer?

Then try just READING them without turning IMMEDIATELY to the Christian interpretation of what he says.

What happens?

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529

What happens? You look even sillier and more egotistical, that's what happens.

You are now on my ignore list for being so dense and such a colossal jerk. May God have mercy on your soul.

Now go run around boasting that I couldn't stand up to you or something.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 08/23/2013 10:45 AM
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Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2013 10:47 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
The word of god is short and simple.

Love.

That is it. Anything else is a lie.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


NOT according to Chapter 12, verses 9-10 of the Book of Daniel.

But, of course, you know more than Daniel ever did.

Yeah. Sure.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


Coming from the person who states

"10) That the prophet Mohammed was Elijah and John the Baptist ‘raised from the dead’; and, thus, that Mohammed taught the Doctrine of “resurrection” as a Doctrine of ‘Rebirth’."

And yet, you deem Paul the one who is satanic.
Keep2theCode

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08/23/2013 10:52 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Coming from the person who states

"10) That the prophet Mohammed was Elijah and John the Baptist ‘raised from the dead’; and, thus, that Mohammed taught the Doctrine of “resurrection” as a Doctrine of ‘Rebirth’."

And yet, you deem Paul the one who is satanic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45626409


Difficult to fathom how anyone of even low intelligence would say such things.

When Herod said Jesus was John the Baptist raised back to life, the passage explains that it was because of his guilty conscience for having John beheaded. As anyone with half a brain can see there, it was NOT what Jesus or John the apostle or anyone else in scripture taught.

And then to equate Mo the Pedo with ANYONE in scripture but false prophets... wow. Astounding. So baseless and bizarre.

I think it's time to stop "throwing what is sacred" to those whose only purpose is to "tear you apart".
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
4Q529

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08/23/2013 10:57 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
I already understand all of that.

More than you do.
 Quoting: 4Q529

Yeah, sure you do, oh conceited one.


But that is not RELEVANT as to WHY the Sadducees are WRONG for asking the question.

And don't be disappointed because you can't find that in the Torah.

In more than 37 years, I have been unable to find one Ph.D. Jewish or Christian theologian that can find that either.
 Quoting: 4Q529

If you spent less time insulting others in order to keep pumping up your ego, you would be much better off and able to grasp what we're saying.

Do me a favor.

Read both replies of Jesus to the Sadducees once, twice, three and four times in a row in about 15 minutes and just TRY to impose the Christian interpretation on what he says.
 Quoting: 4Q529

Read it more times than you know. Understand it too. Know why? Because I read it IN CONTEXT and don't try to impose ridiculous, self-defeating philosophies on it.


What happens?

Do things become clearer?

Then try just READING them without turning IMMEDIATELY to the Christian interpretation of what he says.

What happens?

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529

What happens? You look even sillier and more egotistical, that's what happens.

You are now on my ignore list for being so dense and such a colossal jerk. May God have mercy on your soul.

Now go run around boasting that I couldn't stand up to you or something.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


(Sigh)

Well, obviously, you can't do this on your own, so I will help you just a little.

A question is wrong when the assumption(s) upon which that question is based is(are) wrong.

That's easy to understand, is it not?

So, the Sadducees make TWO assumptions in the question that they ask of Jesus.

Jesus says that BOTH assumptions are WRONG.

But what ARE those two assumptions?

YOU DON'T KNOW.

Because, if you did, you would have said so by now.

All I am doing here is sticking to the logical, conversational sense of the dialogue.

Michael
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
4Q529, please speak simply, plainly and directly.

Who do YOU say that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821
PigsInSpace

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08/23/2013 11:02 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
The word of god is short and simple.

Love.

That is it. Anything else is a lie.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


NOT according to Chapter 12, verses 9-10 of the Book of Daniel.

But, of course, you know more than Daniel ever did.

Yeah. Sure.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


The bible and the words of the disciples are only good for 2 things.

Starting a fire, or rolling marijuana. That's it.

As I said. LOVE is the universal truth. If we all loved, there would be no wars, no misery, no hunger, no poverty. It is such a simple and holy force. It is fool proof and requires no instruction. Simply open your heart to all people and love them and you will see that your life improves in ways unimaginable to you before.

Last Edited by PigsInSpace on 08/23/2013 11:02 AM
4Q529

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
As I said. LOVE is the universal truth.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


But the living of numerous lives is a universal reality--whether Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, Jew, atheist or agnostic--before any universal Truth.

You will live another life after this one, and so will everyone else. It is, quite simply, the structure of human reality.

We can debate over whether living more than one life should be called "re"-incarnation, 'rebirth', "the eternal recurrence", or "resurrection".

But the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth' is one of those Truths that were to "remain secret and sealed until the time of the End."

But now that the religionists are being told what the "secret" has been for so many thousands of years...

They are OUTRAGED.

"Knowing that their time is short."

Michael

Last Edited by 4Q529 on 08/23/2013 11:11 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
4Q529, please speak simply, plainly and directly.

Who do YOU say that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821


It's like kryptonite or something...

Those like you who constantly criticize, attack and condemn Christians and Christianity while claiming to know the real truths of Christ are never willing or able to answer about Christ directly. Nor do they ever advocate for Christ.
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2013 11:21 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...

What "figure of speech" is Paul using in Colossians 1:24?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


None.

Why do you hear:

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and fill up on my part that which is lacking of the afflictions of Christ

And yet, it actually states

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and fill up on my part that which is lacking of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church

You are hearing something that is not there. Therefore the anti-Paul bias that you bring is clearly casting a veil on your understanding, your hearing. The verse does not state what you think it says. I have bolded the difference for you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45585740

"that which is lacking" is "the afflictions of Christ". "fill up on my part" - where? - "in my flesh".

NOT "that which is lacking in my flesh". This reading makes no sense, as "of the afflictions of Christ ... for his body's sake" would not fit in the sentence otherwise.

You are hearing something that is not there. Therefore the pro-Paul bias that you bring is clearly casting a veil on your understanding, your hearing. The verse does not state what you think it says

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


This was your question
"How did Paul's sufferings make up for what Christ's sufferings lacked, for me?"

He did not say that Christ's sufferings lacked.

He lacked them, in his flesh.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45585740

How does "of the afflictions of Christ" "for his body's sake" fit into your rearranged statement then?
4Q529

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08/23/2013 11:23 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
4Q529, please speak simply, plainly and directly.

Who do YOU say that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821


It's like kryptonite or something...

Those like you who constantly criticize, attack and condemn Christians and Christianity while claiming to know the real truths of Christ are never willing or able to answer about Christ directly. Nor do they ever advocate for Christ.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821


You contradict EVERY Doctrine that Jesus ever taught; being followers of the Satanist, Paul.

And then you have the unmitigated GALL to ask someone who Jesus is?

Are you KIDDING me?

The question has already been answered; but NOT in direct response to YOU. That is what offends you.

You don't care who Jesus is.

What you CARE about is the teaching of Paul.

It's called pagan metaphysical idolatry...

Which led directly to the hundreds of years of Christian anti-Semitism culminating in the Holocaust.

Michael
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...

Paul was such a scoffer. He mocked the real apostles in Galatians 2:6,9,etc.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


6As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism—they added nothing to my message. 7On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised,a just as Peter had been to the circumcised.b 8For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles. 9James, Cephasc and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me.

God is no respecter of persons.

Please tell us where YOU perceive mocking, knowing that Our God is no respecter of persons and shows no partiality.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45585740


"whatever they were makes no difference to me" verse 6
"they who were reputed to be pillars" verse 8

"God is no respecter of persons" is Pauline doctrine, and I am not Pauline.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


Deuteronomy 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.

2 Chronicles 19:7
Now let the fear of the LORD be on you. Judge carefully, for with the LORD our God there is no injustice or partiality or bribery."

Job 34:19
who shows no partiality to princes and does not favor the rich over the poor, for they are all the work of his hands?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45585740


All three of your references refers to the fact that God does not show preference to the rich and powerful, nor does he take bribes. He executes justice fairly.

On the other hand, Paul is bringing down the true apostles and elevating himself above them.

Two different concepts.
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


How did Paul's sufferings make up for what Christ's sufferings lacked, for me?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


Partly a figure of speech , but if you are one of Christ's brothers?:

Luke 22:28 “However, YOU are the ones that have stuck+ with me in my trials;+ 29 and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant+ with me, for a kingdom,+ 30 that YOU may eat+ and drink at my table in my kingdom,+ and sit on thrones+ to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.

31 “Simon, Simon, look! Satan+ has demanded to have YOU men to sift YOU as wheat.+ 32 But I have made supplication+ for you that your faith may not give out; and you, when once you have returned, strengthen+ your brothers.
 Quoting: chauchat


So you really think Christ's sufferings were deficient, incomplete, and imperfect?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


Partly a figure of speech , but if you are one of Christ's brothers?:

Luke 22:28 “However, YOU are the ones that have stuck+ with me in my trials;+Did their suffering Jesus' trials with him have a purpose? And is that purpose connected with what he says next? :
29 and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant+ with me, for a kingdom,+ 30 that YOU may eat+ and drink at my table in my kingdom,+ and sit on thrones+ to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.
Wouldn't they be more empathetic judges,observing and experiencing some of how much humans can suffer and endure?
31 “Simon, Simon, look! Satan+ has demanded to have YOU men to sift YOU as wheat.+ 32 But I have made supplication+ for you that your faith may not give out; and you, when once you have returned, strengthen+ your brothers.

Isn't Jesus indicating that Peter's endurance will help him strengthen his brothers? Down to this day? His suffering will not be in vain.


Why is there to be "a body of Christ"? Is Christ "the head" and the "savior of this body" not sufficient?
 Quoting: chauchat


What is this "figure of speech" that everyone keeps on talking about?

I think it is merely an excuse to try to hide away the plain meaning of Paul's words - that "Christ's sufferings were incomplete".
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Paul is not my co-savior, even though he claims to make up for what Christ lacked in his sacrifice:

"Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and fill up on my part that which is lacking of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church." Colossians 1:24

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


I'm not a huge Paul fan either & that excerpt is a bit over the line, but 'co-redeemer' is a bit of a stretch. Not in favor of tearing pages out of the Bible, what is in there is a for a reason. Evangelicals often quote Paul more than the Gospel, whereas Paul's writings are subordinate to anything Jesus ever said. However, 'be thou not deceived, for God is not mocked, that which a man sows, he shall reap also.' Paul was the minister to the gentiles, who had been without the Law until Christ came, and he serves a bit as the bridge between the Jew & the Gentile, basically a no-win situation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 38501639

How would you excuse what Paul said there, then? 1.He suffered for Christ's people, and 2. He made up what was lacking in the sufferings of Christ?

Second: The idea that Paul was the "apostle to the Gentiles" is a great, common error in Christianity. The real 11 apostles were already appointed by Jesus as apostles to the Gentiles, and they were commanded to teach the Gentiles everything that He commanded them (the Jewish apostles!) The way is the same for both Jew and Gentile!:

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:18-20

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111



Valid points, but I wouldn't throw Paul to the lions for it.

The sufferings of Christ alone and in and of themselves are our salvation. Paul did also write (not sure where?), 'I protest your rejoicing in Christ Jesus, I die daily.' I think what he was getting at was the mindset of people who accept Jesus without re-directing themselves to a genuine repentance and accept Him without proper introspection.

As for the 'apostle to the Gentiles,' admittedly that is a bit hyped, but 2000 years ago their was quite a bit of difference between Jews and Gentiles and since the Law had been given to the Israelites thru Moses, Gentile converts were not subjected to the entirety of Jewish law but admonished from eating flesh sacrificed to idols and the sin of fornication.

Again, I'm not a huge Paul fan as he had his flaws like we all do, but I place a much higher emphasis on the Gospel over everything else in the Bible, Paul's letters included and often especially given the Evangelical preference to them.

In my pre-Catholic Christian days, I had many of the suspicions about Paul and could prove the '666' aspect concerning him thru counting the number of verses in the Letters. I had suspected that as the apostles were to receive judgment over the 12 tribes, perhaps Paul was after judgment over the Gentiles in Kingdom come. Don't think that is gonna happen, but I do agree with Paul on this:

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 38501639


It is written that there is no difference between the Israelites and believing Gentiles - there was to be only one Law for both:

"Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the sojourner, as for the home-born: for I am Jehovah your God." Leviticus 24:22

Paul came to divide the Gentiles from the Jews, in fulfillment of the prophecy about him:

"Benjamin is a wolf that raveneth: In the morning she shall devour the prey, And at even he shall divide the spoil." Genesis 49:27

yet that is what most of Christianity believes - that the "church" has different standards, and is different from Israel.
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2013 11:35 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Here is the ultimate proof that Paul was a false apostle and Antichrist.

[link to www.judaismvschristianity.com]


Look under the section "Paul and the Ephesians"

"Try to grasp the profound significance of all this. Here we have in the book of Revelation the words of Yahshua commending the Ephesian church for rejecting someone who claimed to be his apostle, while Paul is the only person other than the twelve original apostles to have claimed to be an apostle... and we know he has made this very claim to this same Ephesian church. At the same time, Paul laments himself of the fact that he has been rejected by them! How could it NOT be Paul and his associates that Yahshua had commended the Ephesian church for rejecting? Could it be much more obvious? Here are the facts, paraphrased, one more time.

Paul to the Ephesians: "I am an apostle of Yahshua"

The Ephesians to Paul: "No you're not."

Yahshua to the Ephesians: "Well done!'"


Headshot! Let's see your stupid Scofield theology wriggle out of this one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45568282

Headshot? You've got to be kidding. This giant twisted knot you've tied by lifting everything out of context and only including the parts that you can use is nothing close to a headshot. What an ego you have!

First of all, Paul REALLY WAS AN APOSTLE, as he (a) was accepted as such by no less than Peter and James, (b) performed miracles, and (c) did indeed suffer much as Jesus promised he would for his former life. WHO DO YOU THINK STARTED THE EPHESIAN CHURCH?

Speaking of his former life, he LOATHED the man he had been before. He counted all his accomplishments as a Pharisee a "steaming pile" as we'd say today (the Greek means exactly that, a pile of manure). So for you to say "He's still a Pharisee" is DELIBERATELY DISINGENUOUS and ignores that critical about-face he did when JESUS HAND-PICKED HIM.

You are exactly what the unrepentant Pharisees were: arrogant, scripture-twisting, lying, slandering, and filled with hate.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


1. Neither Peter nor James is recorded as saying "Paul is an apostle".

2. Jesus says miracles is not proof of anything - in fact, he says false Christs and false prophets will come with miracles to seduce (Matthew 24:24).

3. The accounts in acts does not say Jesus picked him to be an "apostle" - only a "witness".

4. The fact is Paul continued to be a Pharisee, and Jesus warned his followers to not listen to them. Period.
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2013 11:36 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Wow, OP I looked into this a little further. I am still up in the air. Some of what Paul says seems good...but a lot of the stuff I like seems to be lifted from Gospel.

Regardless look at this:

Galatians 2:11

11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.

By Paul's own admission he is opposing Peter...the person that actually knew Jesus and the person he had asked to build his Church. Then we have Paul who never even freaking met Jesus!

I am going to study this more thanks OP.
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2013 11:40 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
^Agreed. And this Paul is a liar stuff... What the.. why? Paul's entire life was dedicated to God to the best of his understanding and experience. So Paul lies to serve the God that has always and only said "You shall not lie."?! And Paul's lies are to tell us believe in Christ and serve each other! What a horrible liar! Absurd. Madness. I can only think they must be psychotic Jew-haters. What else is there?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821


Agree. Except they seem to be lovers of the law, just like the Pharisees, since they keep calling Paul an antinomian.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Jesus said that the Pharisees were WEAK on the Law. They followed their own traditions instead of God's Law. (for example Matthew 23:23)

Paul, on the other hand, claims that he was a Pharisee and kept the Law perfectly. (see Phl 3:5-6)

Christians today forgot what Jesus said, and just listens to Paul. They think that the Pharisees kept the law closely, when in fact, they didn't.

Paul was an antinomian.
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2013 11:43 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
You go girl!
 Quoting: chauchat


hf

And now I'm-a go sleep.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Interesting ... a girl here is teaching pro-Paul, yet she is disobeying her master?:

"let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law."
Keep2theCode

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08/23/2013 11:46 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
You go girl!
 Quoting: chauchat


hf

And now I'm-a go sleep.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Interesting ... a girl here is teaching pro-Paul, yet she is disobeying her master?:

"let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law."

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


What an ignorant, flame-baiting, red herring.

I could start teaching you what Paul said about all that, but at this point it's obvious that it would be a waste of time. You can look up my thread about women if you're desperate, but I'm not chasing that here.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2013 11:46 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Wow, OP I looked into this a little further. I am still up in the air. Some of what Paul says seems good...but a lot of the stuff I like seems to be lifted from Gospel.

Regardless look at this:

Galatians 2:11

11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.

By Paul's own admission he is opposing Peter...the person that actually knew Jesus and the person he had asked to build his Church. Then we have Paul who never even freaking met Jesus!

I am going to study this more thanks OP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22407179


Most Christians will say Peter did something wrong (in support of Paul), but that's only based on Paul's side of the story. We don't have Peter's side of the story now, do we? ;)

Keep2theCode

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08/23/2013 11:48 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Wow, OP I looked into this a little further. I am still up in the air. Some of what Paul says seems good...but a lot of the stuff I like seems to be lifted from Gospel.

Regardless look at this:

Galatians 2:11

11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.

By Paul's own admission he is opposing Peter...the person that actually knew Jesus and the person he had asked to build his Church. Then we have Paul who never even freaking met Jesus!

I am going to study this more thanks OP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22407179


Most Christians will say Peter did something wrong (in support of Paul), but that's only based on Paul's side of the story. We don't have Peter's side of the story now, do we? ;)


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111

Or anybody else's. In fact, there's a deafening silence from any and all the Twelve and other apostles criticizing Paul. Go find evidence that any of them said a word of warning about Paul.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2013 11:48 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
You go girl!
 Quoting: chauchat


hf

And now I'm-a go sleep.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Interesting ... a girl here is teaching pro-Paul, yet she is disobeying her master?:

"let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law."

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


What an ignorant, flame-baiting, red herring.

I could start teaching you what Paul said about all that, but at this point it's obvious that it would be a waste of time. You can look up my thread about women if you're desperate, but I'm not chasing that here.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


No, it's a legitimate observation. You claim to follow Paul and defend him, yet Paul says that women should not speak in the company of other believers.

You are not even following your own master's standards. How should I believe your defense of him then?
Keep2theCode

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08/23/2013 11:51 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
No, it's a legitimate observation. You claim to follow Paul and defend him, yet Paul says that women should not speak in the company of other believers.

You are not even following your own master's standards. How should I believe your defense of him then?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


No, it's a red herring to take the heat off of your (plural) refuted claims against Paul.

And it is YOU who defy and rebel against everything Jesus and all the apostles taught. Ad hominem will not change that.

I'd tell you to stick to the topic here, but I don't even care anymore. You all can go on bleating about things you don't understand.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)

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