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The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27752111
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08/26/2013 10:47 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
"Let our readers choose between us."

I am of the opinion that Paul is a bit over the line in his statement, but I'm not as anti-Paul as the poster. Having been converted by the Gospels, I knew them quite well before studying the Epistles.

Jesus himself said, Mt 5: 37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

There are countless examples within the Epistles of calling on God as proof of a valid witness. Nevertheless, I never expect perfection from a human being, and that most certainly includes Paul. I used to wrestle quite a bit that Paul was not a valid apostle as he was the only one claiming to be one as his conversion along the road to Damascus varies and is expanded upon each time the occurrence is recited.

Never put the cart before the horse, and unfortunately too many Christians quote from the Epistles when suitable instruction is within the Gospels themselves. I do not think Paul was a deceiver, merely imperfect and should not be given first witness but rather secondary confirmation to what is within the Gospels.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 38501639


Agreed. Whatever Jesus said takes precedence. However, most Christians today take Paul's words over Jesus's. That's the main problem I have with Christianity today.
Anonymous Coward
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08/26/2013 10:58 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!

This is really interesting! I didn't even think anyone would think it applied to the topic, let alone that it would be grist for your mill, so to speak, and you'd have an answer all ready. I haven't read all the scriptures you mentioned yet, but I will. I've read all of Matthew 21 and this is the verse that I'd most like to point out to you-
Act 21:29 For they had previously seen Trophi·mus+ the E·phesian in the city with him, but they were imagining Paul had brought him into the temple. "Imagining"

...

So Paul agreed with what the holy spirit told those first guys , but later things change and it's different people begging him not to go, but a prophet is telling him what will happen. -Reminds me of Jesus [prophesying] telling disciples what must happen to him, and Peter urging him,"Be good to yourself master! You will not have this fate at all!" And Jesus tells him "Get behind me Satan!"

Anyway the whole of chapter 21 sounds like the locals in Jerusalem were all screaming and running around like chickens with their heads cut off, giving a pretty good impression of being animated by a spirit of confusion, rather than the Holy Spirit.

If they only imagined Trophimus came into the Temple then that Ezekiel 44 wouldn't apply would it?

I'm very interested to read about more of what you've said, but have to leave again rt now.
Thanks for kind wishes and prayer.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111:MV8yMzI2MDEwXzM5NzUzNjExXzFBNTY5ODQ1What if what Jesus was talking about wasn't regarding the Roman invasion? What if he was talking about Paul who caused the desolation?


Actually Acts 21:29 does not say "imagining" - that is a bad translation. It says enomizon in the Greek, which means "thought". So the verse is more properly: "they thought Paul had brought [Trophimus] into the temple" with no commentary on if or if not their thought was right or wrong. Some translations move into the realm of commentary as in this case if they translate it "imagining/supposed" - probably in order to save Paul.
Anonymous Coward
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08/26/2013 11:01 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
The gospel of God and the gospel of Christ.

1 Pet 4:17-18
For the time is come
that judgment must begin at the house of God:
and if it first begin at us,
what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. (Rom. 2:16)

But I certify you brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation from Jesus Christ. (Gal. 1:11,12)

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: Cor 4:3
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45646839

Is Paul's gospel the same as the gospel given to the apostles? I say no. Just because they used the same word doesn't mean they are referring to the same things.

Paul preached faith & grace only. The apostles preached faith, faithfulness, obedience.
Anonymous Coward
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08/26/2013 11:02 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
I'm not that 'anti-Paul,' but the criticisms against him do have some merit. Nevertheless, Paul did offer his life for Christ and paid the price for it with his own life.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 38501639


What "Christ" did Paul offer his life for? Remember, Jesus said that false Christs & false prophets would come.
Anonymous Coward
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08/26/2013 11:06 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
God could ofc destroy all false Bibles in the world in an instant.

But He does not. He must see some purpose with people arguing over which book is the right one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1416114



God didn't destroyed Judas and many others.

God gave us a choice and the way to express our love to Him.

We will be judged by our works, not by our faith. That's why most of us has written God's Law in hearts. That's the corner stone of salvation.

Pharisee Paul is an excuse to this type of Christians, who have an attitude of typical lawyers.

Lawyers are usually a serpent seed and they use law crafty way to make a guilty an innocent man. That's how most christian churches are working, because they are based strictly on twisted letters of Paul.

So God has allowed this to happened and He will choose his people in the basis of our attitude towards Christ words and Paul's words.

Christ words are strict, while Paul gives us many way to sing and say that eventually God will have mercy on all of us.

And that is a green light to many sins!

User ID: 27752111

Do you have a web page or a blog? I would like to know you better! :D
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45235543


Well said! Most Christian follow Paul, not Jesus. Paul is their "second love" they follow most. They need to test this "apostle" and return to their first love - Jesus, and return to faithfulness to Him (Revelation 2:2-4).

No page or blog, unfortunately :(
Anonymous Coward
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08/26/2013 11:13 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
27752111, Here is a long list of quotes from Paul through most of his writings:

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

Do you object to any of these, and if so, why?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821


In your list, I object to these: 1. Jesus justifies all who believes in him. - no, he justifies those who not only believe in him, but he requires his people to walk after him. Those are the good wives, doing what he did, taking his yoke & working with him. Those who simply "believe" but do not follow faithfully are the false wives, false sheep, false servants, the tares that Jesus warned about in his parables. They look like wives, sheep, servants, and wheat, but they are not true.

2. we are justified by faith - see above

3. we have access to grace by faith - see above

4. Christ died for sinners - no, Christ died for the righteous (those who are the faithful wives, see above)

5. no condemnation to those who walk after the Spirit and not the flesh (Paul's veiled anti-Law statement, goes against what Jesus and the apostles and elders said & recorded in the gospels and epistles)

etc
Anonymous Coward
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08/26/2013 11:17 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Wow, what a great thread. So, much of my confusion from scripture I can now pin down on Paul for the most part. I'm not saying he didn't ever have anything good to say.

But why were letters even put in the official canon. That's absurd.

Second, we essentially have two men as mentioned in the official canon of the Bible, that never died: Elijah and Enoch. Enoch has several books...yet none of them are good enough to include in the offical canon? WHY???????

We know the apostle Jude read Enoch. He quotes directly from it. And what about the Gospel of Thomas and Philip?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22407179


Paul said alot of good things, but some not so good stuff was mixed in. That's the worst kind of deceiver - hide the bad in lots of good!

Yes, I've also come to the realization that most of my previous confusion came from Paul and how he disagreed with much of the rest of the Bible.

Paul's letters wasn't considered "canon" or even "Scripture" in the first few decades after Jesus ascended. Many early believers rejected Paul's letters, including the Ebionites.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


Now that you guys have got it really figured out, who do you say that Jesus Christ is?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821


I believe Jesus is God and Savior, and he wants people to follow him with love, faith, trust, repentance, obedience. Like a true wife would follow her true husband.

Paul's Jesus simply wants people to "believe" and have "faith", and avoid obedience. ("Don't even try to obey the commandments because then you'll be trying to earn your way into heaven, God forbid!" is what establishment pro-Paul Christianity teaches!)

In my opinion that's the key difference between the pro-Paul and anti-Paul Christians.
Anonymous Coward
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08/26/2013 11:21 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.


What problems do you judges have with this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821


1. Jesus was pleased that the Ephesian church judged so-called "apostles" and found out that they were false (rev 2:2). Do you have a problem with that?

2. Here's one problem in the portion of Paul's words you quoted: "touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless." - I see Paul here claiming that he was sinless.

3. Another problem: "not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" - I see Paul here claiming that the "righteous" are those who have "faith" in Jesus. Elsewhere in the Bible, the "righteous" are those who walk faithfully with God. Paul's encouraging an anti-Law walk here.
Anonymous Coward
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08/26/2013 11:28 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
"""Trophimus believed what Paul taught, that "circumcision and uncircumcision is nothing", that the "Temple's middle wall was torn" and that "God does not live in temples built by human hands".""""Quote-27752111
-------------------------------------------------------------​---
1]Not only Paul says. "God does not live in temples built by human hands":

1 Kings 8:27
27 “But will God truly dwell upon the earth?+ Look! The heavens,+ yes, the heaven of the heavens,+ themselves cannot contain you;+ how much less, then, this house+ that I have built!

Isaiah 66:1
66 This is what Jehovah has said: “The heavens are my throne,+ and the earth is my footstool.+ Where, then, is the house that YOU people can build for me,+ and where, then, is the place as a resting-place for me?”+

Acts 7:48 48 Nevertheless, the Most High does not dwell in houses* made with hands;+ just as the prophet says,

...

and is this what you mean as a Paul teaching?
Luke 23:44 Well, by now it was about the sixth hour, and yet a darkness fell over all the earth until the ninth hour,*+ 45 because the sunlight failed; then the curtain+ of the sanctuary* was rent down the middle.+ 46 And Jesus called with a loud voice and said: “Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit.”+ When he had said this, he expired.+


Cutting to the chase here: If fulfillment don't fit, you must aquit -Paul. The Trophimus"abomination" didn't happen and the temple wasn't desolated Temple was destroyed, however, 70CE.
 Quoting: chauchat


"And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein." - Matthew 23:21 Jesus himself confirms that God lived in the temple. 1Kings 8:27 & Isaiah 66:1 does not contradict - God in these verses are merely saying that he not only lives in the temple, but is not contained by it, and he is asking the people where his temple is.

The veil was torn, but Paul interpreted that to mean that everyone has full access to God as a result. That was false. The veil that was torn was the veil covering the Holy Place. NOT the veil that covered the High Holy Place. Big difference. Only the High Priest could enter into the High Holy Place. We are priests, and the ripping of the Holy Place veil means we have access to the High Priest (Jesus) - not to the Father.
Anonymous Coward
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08/26/2013 11:34 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
If Paul is inspired by God and his words were intended by Almighty Providence as Scripture... and Paul's instructions/teachings/commands from God say look only to Jesus Christ... as they do.. then what is the problem? Paul says "Not me. Christ." So they say Paul is, strangely, "Satanic deception."

I provided a long list of quotes from Paul walking throughout his New Testament letters earlier in this thread beginning here:

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

I specifically asked for any of the Anti-Pauls to explain how any of these words of Paul proclaiming Christ are "Satanic deception." Not one single Anti-Paul could or would answer and defend their accusations. Not one Anti-Paul. Not one Paul quote.

They have a problem with Paul. Paul preaches only Jesus Christ. They have a problem with Christ. They never preach Christ. They oppose the one who started preaching Christ.

Again, consistently, those who hate Paul do not love Christ.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45739039


I did not have time to respond until now. You'll find my answers in a prior post.

Secondly, Jesus himself said that false Christs will appear. Which Christ did Paul preach? Paul's Christ preached faith only. The Jesus of the gospels (in harmony with the rest of scripture) taught love, faith, faithfulness, obedience, etc.

Two different Christs.

Those who love the real Jesus will question Paul.
Anonymous Coward
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08/26/2013 12:24 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
If Paul is inspired by God and his words were intended by Almighty Providence as Scripture... and Paul's instructions/teachings/commands from God say look only to Jesus Christ... as they do.. then what is the problem? Paul says "Not me. Christ." So they say Paul is, strangely, "Satanic deception."

I provided a long list of quotes from Paul walking throughout his New Testament letters earlier in this thread beginning here:

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

I specifically asked for any of the Anti-Pauls to explain how any of these words of Paul proclaiming Christ are "Satanic deception." Not one single Anti-Paul could or would answer and defend their accusations. Not one Anti-Paul. Not one Paul quote.

They have a problem with Paul. Paul preaches only Jesus Christ. They have a problem with Christ. They never preach Christ. They oppose the one who started preaching Christ.

Again, consistently, those who hate Paul do not love Christ.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45739039


I did not have time to respond until now. You'll find my answers in a prior post.

Secondly, Jesus himself said that false Christs will appear. Which Christ did Paul preach? Paul's Christ preached faith only. The Jesus of the gospels (in harmony with the rest of scripture) taught love, faith, faithfulness, obedience, etc.

Two different Christs.

Those who love the real Jesus will question Paul.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


You have such a disconnect between what you THINK his epistles state and what they ACTUALLY state. In which case, aren't you the one whom has no understanding? And then you go and attribute false teachings to him. Aren't you Inadvertenly bearing false witness? No where does he preach disobedience, nowhere does he preach that good works aren't evidence of true faith.

Jesus Christ prayed that we'd come to know the One True God and His Son Jesus Christ.

Think on that a bit.
4Q529

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08/26/2013 12:32 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
If Paul is inspired by God and his words were intended by Almighty Providence as Scripture... and Paul's instructions/teachings/commands from God say look only to Jesus Christ... as they do.. then what is the problem? Paul says "Not me. Christ." So they say Paul is, strangely, "Satanic deception."

I provided a long list of quotes from Paul walking throughout his New Testament letters earlier in this thread beginning here:

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

I specifically asked for any of the Anti-Pauls to explain how any of these words of Paul proclaiming Christ are "Satanic deception." Not one single Anti-Paul could or would answer and defend their accusations. Not one Anti-Paul. Not one Paul quote.

They have a problem with Paul. Paul preaches only Jesus Christ. They have a problem with Christ. They never preach Christ. They oppose the one who started preaching Christ.

Again, consistently, those who hate Paul do not love Christ.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45739039


I did not have time to respond until now. You'll find my answers in a prior post.

Secondly, Jesus himself said that false Christs will appear. Which Christ did Paul preach? Paul's Christ preached faith only. The Jesus of the gospels (in harmony with the rest of scripture) taught love, faith, faithfulness, obedience, etc.

Two different Christs.

Those who love the real Jesus will question Paul.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


You have such a disconnect between what you THINK his epistles state and what they ACTUALLY state. In which case, aren't you the one whom has no understanding? And then you go and attribute false teachings to him. Aren't you Inadvertenly bearing false witness? No where does he preach disobedience, nowhere does he preach that good works aren't evidence of true faith.

Jesus Christ prayed that we'd come to know the One True God and His Son Jesus Christ.

Think on that a bit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45775349


Unbelievable.

Seriously.

Reminds me of two capitalists arguing over the price of rope on the way to the gallows.

But, as I recall, that's been said before.

Michael (as Prophesied)
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08/26/2013 12:40 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
You have such a disconnect between what you THINK his epistles state and what they ACTUALLY state. In which case, aren't you the one whom has no understanding? And then you go and attribute false teachings to him. Aren't you Inadvertenly bearing false witness? No where does he preach disobedience, nowhere does he preach that good works aren't evidence of true faith.

Jesus Christ prayed that we'd come to know the One True God and His Son Jesus Christ.

Think on that a bit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45775349


You stated: "No where does he preach disobedience, nowhere does he preach that good works aren't evidence of true faith."

Yet Galatians 5 states "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love." God's Law teaches the need for circumcision. I have no doubt Jesus was circumcised. Jesus said to "follow Him". Yet Paul is teaching his disciples to do the opposite. To Paul, those who follow God's commandment has "fallen from grace". Paul taught disobedience. In pro-Paul Christianity, right has become wrong, and wrong is considered right.

Galatians 2:1 states "Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with [me] also." Paul stayed away from Jerusalem for fourteen years! Yet God commanded in Exodus 23:17 that all males must appear before Him during the three high holy days at the Temple in Jerusalem. Paul disobeyed.

Elsewhere, Paul taught that it was OK to eat food sacrificed to idols. Jesus said he was against that.

Jesus said only adultery was the ONLY legitimate reason for divorce. Paul said if you're married to an unbeliever, it's OK to leave them. So, in effect, Paul supported adultery & fornication.


You stated "You have such a disconnect between what you THINK his epistles state and what they ACTUALLY state. In which case, aren't you the one whom has no understanding? And then you go and attribute false teachings to him. Aren't you Inadvertenly bearing false witness?" I can claim the same for you.

Think of that a bit.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Paul

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45544474
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.



Paul

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45544474
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.



Paul

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45544474
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.



Paul
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45544474
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


Paul
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;


Paul

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast
.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.



Paul
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



PAUL

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45544474
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ


Paul

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.



Paul
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45544474
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Paul's entire life was dedicated to God to the best of his understanding and experience. So Paul lies to serve the God that has always and only said "You shall not lie."?!
And Paul's lies are to tell us to believe in Christ and serve each other?!

Absurd.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Thanks 43676208 for showing Paul's "faith only" message.

Now, compare that to what the real apostles and elders wrote:

Peter: "For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil ... For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. - 1 Peter 3:12,17

Peter: Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the lawless, fall from your own stedfastness. - 2 Peter 3:17

John: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him ... He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. - 1 John 2:4,6

Jude: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. - Jude 1:14,15

Revelation: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. - Revelation 22:14
Raymantheheretic

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
More faith vs, Law rhetoric;

Philippians Chapter 3; 2-11 <snip>"Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead."<snip>

Paul here seems to be faulting his zeal to be blameless under the law for his actions of persecuting the church i.e. hunting down and murdering Jesus' followers.

Say what you will, none of this quotation of Paul bares any resemblance to Jesus' teachings.
Anonymous Coward
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08/27/2013 01:27 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Thanks 43676208 for showing Paul's "faith only" message.

Now, compare that to what the real apostles and elders wrote:

Peter: "For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil ... For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. - 1 Peter 3:12,17

Peter: Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the lawless, fall from your own stedfastness. - 2 Peter 3:17

John: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him ... He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. - 1 John 2:4,6

Jude: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. - Jude 1:14,15

Revelation: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. - Revelation 22:14

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


You do realise that 1 John 2 does not refer to the ten commandments, don't you?
You do realise that Jesus said 'Keep MY commandments" and called the law of Moses "YOUR law", don't you?
Anonymous Coward
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08/27/2013 01:52 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
More faith vs, Law rhetoric;

Philippians Chapter 3; 2-11 <snip>"Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead."<snip>

Paul here seems to be faulting his zeal to be blameless under the law for his actions of persecuting the church i.e. hunting down and murdering Jesus' followers.

Say what you will, none of this quotation of Paul bares any resemblance to Jesus' teachings.
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic


Obedience to the law was their righteousness.
Do you understand that successful obedience under the letter of the law Do Not Murder can be had by most in this world because they do not murder ....but that this is no longer a possibility since Jesus said that hating one's brother is even murder? How many today in the Christian community will fail this command whilst yet being obedient to Do Not Murder?

In which case, Jesus' command is to love your brothers, isn't it? The command Do Not Murder is for the disobedient, for those who hate their brothers. Where did Paul's persecution of the early church stem from? Did he love or hate his brothers? Despite being blameless in law keeping, therefore righteous according to the law, he was anything but in God's eyes.

Do not murder is for the disobedient.
Love your brothers is for the obedient.

There would not be one murder in this world if everyone lived and walked in the love of God. The command Do Not Murder wouldn't even exist.
Anonymous Coward
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08/27/2013 04:19 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Say what you will, none of this quotation of Paul bares any resemblance to Jesus' teachings.
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic


Exactly!
Anonymous Coward
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08/27/2013 04:24 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
You do realise that 1 John 2 does not refer to the ten commandments, don't you?
You do realise that Jesus said 'Keep MY commandments" and called the law of Moses "YOUR law", don't you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45851057


1. It's NOT the "Law from Moses". It's God's Law given through Moses.

2. Are you denying that Jesus is also God? Both God & Jesus says (Deuteronomy 18:18, John 12:49-50, John 15:15) that God the Father is speaking through Jesus. How can Jesus's Law be any different than God's Law? Is God schizophrenic, divided, or double minded?

Jesus's commandments are God's commandments. God's commandments are Jesus's commandments. They are one and the same.

The two greatest commandments summarizes the ten. The ten summarizes all of the rest.

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