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The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!

 
Anonymous Coward
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08/27/2013 04:46 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Obedience to the law was their righteousness.
Do you understand that successful obedience under the letter of the law Do Not Murder can be had by most in this world because they do not murder ....but that this is no longer a possibility since Jesus said that hating one's brother is even murder? How many today in the Christian community will fail this command whilst yet being obedient to Do Not Murder?

In which case, Jesus' command is to love your brothers, isn't it? The command Do Not Murder is for the disobedient, for those who hate their brothers. Where did Paul's persecution of the early church stem from? Did he love or hate his brothers? Despite being blameless in law keeping, therefore righteous according to the law, he was anything but in God's eyes.

Do not murder is for the disobedient.
Love your brothers is for the obedient.

There would not be one murder in this world if everyone lived and walked in the love of God. The command Do Not Murder wouldn't even exist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45851057


Paul says he was blameless in the law. So you agree with him that he was sinless?

Paul, your master, is the only one who claims that, as a Pharisee, he was STRONG on keeping the Law, and he alleges that he kept it perfectly.

Jesus, my Master, says that the Pharisees were WEAK on keeping the Law, and ignored many of the things the Law commanded (Matthew 23:23, etc.).

Paul says he is a Pharisee (Acts 23:6, Acts 26:5, Phillipians 3:5,6)

Jesus says the Pharisees are hypocrites, blind guides, whited tombs, serpents, vipers, and full of uncleanness and lawlessness; they block the way to heaven and teaches their disciples to become children of hell, and asks how they can escape damnation of hell (Matthew 23). Jesus warned us against following the teachings of the Pharisees (Matthew 16:12).

How can anyone seriously choose Paul the Pharisee over Jesus?
Son of Man

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08/27/2013 04:50 PM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Ezechiel (Ezeckiel) 13:3
Thus saith the Lord God: Woe to the foolish prophets that follow their own spirit, and see nothing.




Psalms 52:5
Shall not all the workers of iniquity know, who eat up my people as they eat bread?


Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most high God shall take the kingdom: and they shall possess the kingdom for ever and ever.


Psalms 149:5
The saints shall rejoice in glory: they shall be joyful in their beds.




1 Corinthians 6:2
Know you not that the saints shall judge this world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?





[link to www.bible-researcher.com]





all the books both of the Old and of the New Testament—seeing that one God is the author of both —as also the said traditions, as well those appertaining to faith as to morals, as having been dictated, either by Christ's own word of mouth, or by the Holy Ghost, and preserved in the Catholic Church by a continuous succession.



And it has thought it meet that a list of the sacred books be inserted in this decree, lest a doubt may arise in any one's mind, which are the books that are received by this Synod. They are as set down here below:



Of the Old Testament: the five books of Moses, to wit, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; Josue, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, two of Paralipomenon, the first book of Esdras, and the second which is entitled Nehemias; Tobias, Judith, Esther, Job, the Davidical Psalter, consisting of a hundred and fifty psalms; the Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Canticle of Canticles, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Isaias, Jeremias, with Baruch; Ezechiel, Daniel; the twelve minor prophets, to wit, Osee, Joel, Amos, Abdias, Jonas, Micheas, Nahum, Habacuc, Sophonias, Aggaeus, Zacharias, Malachias; two books of the Machabees, the first and the second.


Of the New Testament: the four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; the Acts of the Apostles written by Luke the Evangelist; fourteen epistles of Paul the apostle, (one) to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, (one) to the Galatians, to the Ephesians, to the Philippians, to the Colossians, two to the Thessalonians, two to Timothy, (one) to Titus, to Philemon, to the Hebrews; two of Peter the apostle, three of John the apostle, one of the apostle James, one of Jude the apostle, and the Apocalypse of John the apostle.


But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate edition; and knowingly and deliberately contemn the traditions aforesaid; let him be anathema.



Moreover, the same sacred and holy Synod,—considering that no small utility may accrue to the Church of God, if it be made known which out of all the Latin editions, now in circulation, of the sacred books, is to be held as authentic,—ordains and declares, that the said old and vulgate edition, which, by the lengthened usage of so many ages, has been approved of in the Church, be, in public lectures, disputations, sermons and expositions, held as authentic; and that no one is to dare, or presume to reject it under any pretext whatever.




Psalms 88:6
The heavens shall confess thy wonders, O Lord: and thy truth in the church of the saints.


Psalms 61:10
But vain are the sons of men, the sons of men are liars in the balances: that by vanity they may together deceive.




Ecclesiasticus 36:8 [6] Renew thy signs, and work new miracles. [7] Glorify thy hand, and thy right arm. [8] Raise up indignation, and pour out wrath. [9] Take away the adversary, and crush the enemy. [10] Hasten the time, and remember the end, that they may declare thy wonderful works.

[11] Let him that escapeth be consumed by the rage of the fire: and let them perish that oppress thy people. [12] Crush the head of the princes of the enemies that say: There is no other beside us.



Sophonias (Zephaniah) 3:8
Wherefore expect me, saith the Lord, in the day of my resurrection that is to come, for my judgment is to assemble the Gentiles, and to gather the kingdoms: and to pour upon them my indignation, all my fierce anger: for with the fire of my jealousy shall all the earth be devoured.


Ezechiel (Ezeckiel) 7:[25] When distress cometh upon them, they will seek for peace and there shall be none.


[26] Trouble shall come upon trouble, and rumour upon rumour, and they shall seek a vision of the prophet, and the law shall perish from the priest, and counsel from the ancients. [27] The king shall mourn, and the prince shall be clothed with sorrow, and the hands of the people of the land shall be troubled. I will do to them according to their way, and will judge them according to their judgments: and they shall know that I am the Lord.

popepopepope
1 Chronicles 16:22 Touch not my anointed: and do no evil to my prophets.
Colossians 2:[21] Touch not, taste not, handle not:

Thread: Thus saith the LORD: Behold I set before you the way of life, and the way of death.

Thread: Jesus began to preach, and to say: Do penance, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.


Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus

Thread: Hell is real and most people are just a breath away from it. Ignorance is no excuse.

3 Kings (1 Kings) 18: [15] And Elias said: As the Lord of hosts liveth, before whose face I stand, this day.

Amos 3:7 For the Lord God doth nothing without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets.

BEHOLD! THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND!

Matthew 10: [34] Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword.


Jeremias (Jeremiah) 25: [27] And thou shalt say to them: Thus saith the Lord of hosts the God of Israel: Drink ye, and be drunken, and vomit: and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword, which I shall send among you.
[28] And if they refuse to take the cup at thy hand to drink, thou shalt say to them: Thus saith the Lord of hosts: Drinking you shall drink:

Jeremias (Jeremiah) 22:[29] O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the Lord.

Ezechiel (Ezeckiel) 39: [8] Behold it cometh, and it is done, saith the Lord God: this is the day whereof I have spoken.

2 Corinthians 11:31
The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed for ever, knoweth that I lie not.

Matthew 26:[46] Rise, let us go: behold he is at hand that will betray me.[47] As he yet spoke, behold Judas, one of
the twelve, came.

Aggeus (Haggai) 2: [7] For thus saith the Lord of hosts: Yet one little while, and I will move the heaven and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land.

(Isaiah) 24:[3] With desolation shall the earth be laid waste, and it shall be utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word.

Zacharias (Zachariah) 13:7
Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that cleaveth to me, saith the Lord of hosts: strike the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered:

Ezechiel (Ezeckiel) 18:32
For I desire not the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God, return ye and live.
V.R.S. N.S.M.V. S.M.Q.L. I.V.B. N.D.S.M.D. C.S.S.M.L. C.S.P.B.
1.9.8.2.1.9.8.2.1.9.8.2.1.9.8.2.1.9.8.2
chauchat

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08/27/2013 10:06 PM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
More faith vs, Law rhetoric;

Philippians Chapter 3; 2-11 <snip>"Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead."<snip>

Paul here seems to be faulting his zeal to be blameless under the law for his actions of persecuting the church i.e. hunting down and murdering Jesus' followers.

Say what you will, none of this quotation of Paul bares any resemblance to Jesus' teachings.
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic


Obedience to the law was their righteousness.
Do you understand that successful obedience under the letter of the law Do Not Murder can be had by most in this world because they do not murder ....but that this is no longer a possibility since Jesus said that hating one's brother is even murder? How many today in the Christian community will fail this command whilst yet being obedient to Do Not Murder?

In which case, Jesus' command is to love your brothers, isn't it? The command Do Not Murder is for the disobedient, for those who hate their brothers. Where did Paul's persecution of the early church stem from? Did he love or hate his brothers? Despite being blameless in law keeping, therefore righteous according to the law, he was anything but in God's eyes.

Do not murder is for the disobedient.
Love your brothers is for the obedient.

There would not be one murder in this world if everyone lived and walked in the love of God. The command Do Not Murder wouldn't even exist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45851057


So great!
chauchat

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08/27/2013 10:26 PM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
"""Trophimus believed what Paul taught, that "circumcision and uncircumcision is nothing", that the "Temple's middle wall was torn" and that "God does not live in temples built by human hands".""""Quote-27752111
-------------------------------------------------------------​---
1]Not only Paul says. "God does not live in temples built by human hands":

1 Kings 8:27
27 “But will God truly dwell upon the earth?+ Look! The heavens,+ yes, the heaven of the heavens,+ themselves cannot contain you;+ how much less, then, this house+ that I have built!

Isaiah 66:1
66 This is what Jehovah has said: “The heavens are my throne,+ and the earth is my footstool.+ Where, then, is the house that YOU people can build for me,+ and where, then, is the place as a resting-place for me?”+

Acts 7:48 48 Nevertheless, the Most High does not dwell in houses* made with hands;+ just as the prophet says,

...

and is this what you mean as a Paul teaching?
Luke 23:44 Well, by now it was about the sixth hour, and yet a darkness fell over all the earth until the ninth hour,*+ 45 because the sunlight failed; then the curtain+ of the sanctuary* was rent down the middle.+ 46 And Jesus called with a loud voice and said: “Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit.”+ When he had said this, he expired.+


Cutting to the chase here: If fulfillment don't fit, you must aquit -Paul. The Trophimus"abomination" didn't happen and the temple wasn't desolated Temple was destroyed, however, 70CE.
 Quoting: chauchat


"And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein." - Matthew 23:21 Jesus himself confirms that God lived in the temple. 1Kings 8:27 & Isaiah 66:1 does not contradict - God in these verses are merely saying that he not only lives in the temple, but is not contained by it, and he is asking the people where his temple is.

The veil was torn, but Paul interpreted that to mean that everyone has full access to God as a result. That was false. The veil that was torn was the veil covering the Holy Place. NOT the veil that covered the High Holy Place. Big difference. Only the High Priest could enter into the High Holy Place. We are priests, and the ripping of the Holy Place veil means we have access to the High Priest (Jesus) - not to the Father.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


I wrote a long answer to this that I was very pleased with, but it disappeared instead of posting. Operating on little sleep right now. Relative dying in hospital, cooking for houseful of out of town family and friends.
- will try to reconstruct what I wrote, though, just not right now-
Anonymous Coward
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08/27/2013 10:30 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Thanks 43676208 for showing Paul's "faith only" message.

Now, compare that to what the real apostles and elders wrote:

Peter: "For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil ... For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. - 1 Peter 3:12,17

Peter: Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the lawless, fall from your own stedfastness. - 2 Peter 3:17

John: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him ... He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. - 1 John 2:4,6

Jude: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. - Jude 1:14,15

Revelation: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. - Revelation 22:14

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


The problem is yours.

There is no incompatibility or conflict between the verses or the authors.

If anyone is truly living in faith in Christ, surely they do not disregard or disrespect the directions of God.

The point is that you do not earn salvation by how much good you do or how good you are or how good you think you are, but by what Christ has done.

Laughable that you anti-Pauls are superior in your own eyes.

What have you done for Christ?
Anonymous Coward
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08/27/2013 10:43 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Thanks 43676208 for showing Paul's "faith only" message.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111

How many good works are enough?
How many bad works are allowable?
Does doing more good works make you a better person?
Who decides what works are good?
What if someone does nothing but good works, but hates Jesus Christ?

These were quoted and bolded for you to see. Apparently, you cannot see.

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


Paul
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45544474

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43676208


For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast
.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.



Paul
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45544474

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43676208


For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.



Paul
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45544474

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43676208
Anonymous Coward
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08/27/2013 10:53 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Those who follow Paulianity do not understand that the "law" the Pharisees followed was not God's law, but the law made up by the rabbis. This has been stated here multiple times, but you continue to make the same mistake.
Anonymous Coward
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08/27/2013 11:19 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Paul says he was blameless in the law. So you agree with him that he was sinless?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111
A man as driven as Paul? I would not be surprised if he obeyed every bit of minutia of Jewish law more than any man. You add "sinless" to deceive. You deliberately misportray Paul as proclaiming himself sinless when, in fact, he immediately proceeds to say that his blameless keeping of the law was SHIT. You continue to deceive by then making it sound as if Paul's case is justifying himself when he does exactly the opposite!

Paul, your master,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111

Wow. Hostility in continued deliberate deception, but you're the true follower of Christ alone...

is the only one who claims that, as a Pharisee, he was STRONG on keeping the Law, and he alleges that he kept it perfectly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111

AND THEN HE SAYS THAT WAS SHIT. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

Jesus, my Master,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111
Oh holy you, despising Him in what He has done and who He has chosen.
You know better. You obey better. You work better. Your fruit is greater...
Unbelievable.

says that the Pharisees were WEAK on keeping the Law, and ignored many of the things the Law commanded (Matthew 23:23, etc.).

Paul says he is a Pharisee (Acts 23:6, Acts 26:5, Phillipians 3:5,6)

Jesus says the Pharisees are hypocrites, blind guides, whited tombs, serpents, vipers, and full of uncleanness and lawlessness; they block the way to heaven and teaches their disciples to become children of hell, and asks how they can escape damnation of hell (Matthew 23). Jesus warned us against following the teachings of the Pharisees (Matthew 16:12).

How can anyone seriously choose Paul the Pharisee over Jesus?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111
Paul's entire life was being the Pharisee of the Pharisees... AND THEN HE SAID THAT WAS SHIT!

So Paul, instead, bears the Gospel of Jesus Christ to all the surrounding peoples and started "the world on fire" for Jesus Christ.

And you despise him.

"But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:"


And what is this insistent garbage about choosing Paul over Christ?!

Paul's teachings are the in-depth applications of Christ to our lives. Christ's recorded words amount to several pages. Paul's words amount to a few hundred pages. Paul can say a little more. That means Paul says things that Christ wasn't quoted elaborating upon. That does not mean that Paul's words are contrary to Christ's. To the contrary, all Paul does is point to Jesus Christ.

I happen to think very highly of Chuck Missler. I toured Israel with him almost 20 years ago. Chuck Missler teachings a great many things pointing to Jesus Christ. Do you say that means I have chosen Chuck Missler over Jesus Christ? Of course not! But you do anyway, and will continue to do so, I am sure.
chauchat

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08/27/2013 11:23 PM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
You have such a disconnect between what you THINK his epistles state and what they ACTUALLY state. In which case, aren't you the one whom has no understanding? And then you go and attribute false teachings to him. Aren't you Inadvertenly bearing false witness? No where does he preach disobedience, nowhere does he preach that good works aren't evidence of true faith.

Jesus Christ prayed that we'd come to know the One True God and His Son Jesus Christ.

Think on that a bit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45775349


You stated: "No where does he preach disobedience, nowhere does he preach that good works aren't evidence of true faith."

Yet Galatians 5 states "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love." God's Law teaches the need for circumcision. I have no doubt Jesus was circumcised. Jesus said to "follow Him". Yet Paul is teaching his disciples to do the opposite. To Paul, those who follow God's commandment has "fallen from grace". Paul taught disobedience. In pro-Paul Christianity, right has become wrong, and wrong is considered right.

Galatians 2:1 states "Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with [me] also." Paul stayed away from Jerusalem for fourteen years! Yet God commanded in Exodus 23:17 that all males must appear before Him during the three high holy days at the Temple in Jerusalem. Paul disobeyed.


please see below. -chauchat



Elsewhere, Paul taught that it was OK to eat food sacrificed to idols. Jesus said he was against that.

Say you had a friend that was a problem drinker. Is it possible that you , though not having that problem personally, would abstain in their presence out of concern for them? Same principle, kind of, regarding Paul and a new believer in christianity from a Jewish background. It's easier to not eat food sacrificed to idols, even though it's actually okay now, than to explain to this new person why it's now okay.




Sorry I, chauchat, made a big mess of this trying to comment between the lines in green. I was trying to keep the red and blue but messed it all up. I didn't mean to get rid of both people's quotes, but no time to fix now- SORRY

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


The End of the Jewish System of Things

3 The appalling end of Pompeii and Herculaneum was more than matched by the cataclysmic destruction of Jerusalem nine years earlier, although that catastrophe was man-made. Described as “one of the most terrible sieges in all history,” it is reported to have led to the death of over a million Jews. However, like the disaster at Pompeii and Herculaneum, the destruction of Jerusalem did not happen without warning.

4 Jesus Christ had predicted the city’s destruction, and he foretold events that would precede it—such disturbing occurrences as wars, food shortages, earthquakes, and lawlessness. False prophets would be active, but the good news of God’s Kingdom would be preached worldwide. (Matthew 24:4-7, 11-14) While Jesus’ words have their major fulfillment today, they did have a minor fulfillment back then. History records a severe famine in Judea. (Acts 11:28) Jewish historian Josephus reports an earthquake in the Jerusalem area shortly before the city’s destruction. As Jerusalem’s end approached, there were continual uprisings, internecine warfare between Jewish political factions, and massacres in several cities with a mixed Jewish and Gentile population. Nevertheless, the good news of the Kingdom was being preached “in all creation that is under heaven.”—Colossians 1:23.

5 Finally, in 66 C.E., the Jews rebelled against Rome. When Cestius Gallus led an army to besiege Jerusalem, Jesus’ followers remembered Jesus’ words: “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. Then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her.”[
/b] (Luke 21:20, 21) The time had come to leave Jerusalem—but how? Unexpectedly, Gallus withdrew his troops, opening the way for Christians in Jerusalem and Judea to obey Jesus’ words and flee to the mountains.—Matthew 24:15, 16.

6 Four years later, about Passover time, Roman troops returned under General Titus, who was determined to stamp out the Jewish rebellion. His army surrounded Jerusalem and built “a fortification with pointed stakes,” making escape impossible. (Luke 19:43, 44) Despite the threat of war, Jews from all over the Roman Empire had flocked to Jerusalem for the Passover. Now they were trapped. According to Josephus, these hapless visitors made up the majority of the casualties of the Roman siege.* When Jerusalem finally fell, about one seventh of all Jews in the Roman Empire perished. The destruction of Jerusalem and its temple meant the end of the Jewish state and its religious system based on the Mosaic Law.*—Mark 13:1, 2.

7 In 70 C.E., Jewish Christians could have been killed or enslaved along with everyone else in Jerusalem. However, according to the historical evidence, they had heeded Jesus’ warning given 37 years earlier. They had abandoned the city and had not returned.
[link to wol.jw.org]

Last Edited by chauchat on 08/27/2013 11:26 PM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Those who follow Paulianity do not understand that the "law" the Pharisees followed was not God's law, but the law made up by the rabbis. This has been stated here multiple times, but you continue to make the same mistake.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45826825


Paul said "Jesus Christ."

What does Your "Paulianity" say?
Anonymous Coward
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08/27/2013 11:34 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Pauls's words make it simple and clear; We are saved by faith in what Christ has done for us and not by what we can do, and that faith in Christ is manifested in zealously doing good works for others.

Are the Paul-haters zealously doing good works and proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ when not condemning Paul for every gnat they can imagine?
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Jesus, my Master,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111

Please tell us what you believe about your master Jesus Christ. Please elaborate a little bit.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one?

I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.

So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.

Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building.

According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.

For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,

each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.

If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.

If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2013 10:27 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Thanks 43676208 for showing Paul's "faith only" message.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111

How many good works are enough?
How many bad works are allowable?
Does doing more good works make you a better person?
Who decides what works are good?
What if someone does nothing but good works, but hates Jesus Christ?

These were quoted and bolded for you to see. Apparently, you cannot see.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45878688


I can see Paul's double-mindedness (James 1:8 & 4:8) and how he speaks different things to different people (1Corinthians 9:19-22).

How many good works must be done by a wife for her husband to consider her his legitimate wife?
How many bad works are allowable by a wife before her husband considers her his illegitimate wife?
Does doing more good works make someone a better wife for her husband?
Who decides what works are good, in Jesus' (the husband's) eyes?
What if the "wife" does nothing but good for Jesus, but hates him?
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2013 10:34 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Paul says he was blameless in the law. So you agree with him that he was sinless?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111
A man as driven as Paul? I would not be surprised if he obeyed every bit of minutia of Jewish law more than any man. You add "sinless" to deceive. You deliberately misportray Paul as proclaiming himself sinless when, in fact, he immediately proceeds to say that his blameless keeping of the law was . You continue to deceive by then making it sound as if Paul's case is justifying himself when he does exactly the opposite!

Paul, your master,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111

Wow. Hostility in continued deliberate deception, but you're the true follower of Christ alone...

is the only one who claims that, as a Pharisee, he was STRONG on keeping the Law, and he alleges that he kept it perfectly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111

AND THEN HE SAYS THAT WAS . DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

Jesus, my Master,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111
Oh holy you, despising Him in what He has done and who He has chosen.
You know better. You obey better. You work better. Your fruit is greater...
Unbelievable.

says that the Pharisees were WEAK on keeping the Law, and ignored many of the things the Law commanded (Matthew 23:23, etc.).

Paul says he is a Pharisee (Acts 23:6, Acts 26:5, Phillipians 3:5,6)

Jesus says the Pharisees are hypocrites, blind guides, whited tombs, serpents, vipers, and full of uncleanness and lawlessness; they block the way to heaven and teaches their disciples to become children of hell, and asks how they can escape damnation of hell (Matthew 23). Jesus warned us against following the teachings of the Pharisees (Matthew 16:12).

How can anyone seriously choose Paul the Pharisee over Jesus?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111
Paul's entire life was being the Pharisee of the Pharisees... AND THEN HE SAID THAT WAS !

So Paul, instead, bears the Gospel of Jesus Christ to all the surrounding peoples and started "the world on fire" for Jesus Christ.

And you despise him.

"But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:"

And what is this insistent garbage about choosing Paul over Christ?!

Paul's teachings are the in-depth applications of Christ to our lives. Christ's recorded words amount to several pages. Paul's words amount to a few hundred pages. Paul can say a little more. That means Paul says things that Christ wasn't quoted elaborating upon. That does not mean that Paul's words are contrary to Christ's. To the contrary, all Paul does is point to Jesus Christ.

I happen to think very highly of Chuck Missler. I toured Israel with him almost 20 years ago. Chuck Missler teachings a great many things pointing to Jesus Christ. Do you say that means I have chosen Chuck Missler over Jesus Christ? Of course not! But you do anyway, and will continue to do so, I am sure.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45878688


Diversions & deception.

Sin equals breaking God's law, said the Apostle John. If Paul the Pharisee was blameless in the Law, then he was claiming that he was sinless. Yes, Paul the Pharisee claimed that the results of his keeping of the Law amounted to uselessness, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about how Paul the Pharisee claimed that he kept the Law perfectly - I'm not focusing on what he claimed was its results.

Paul the Pharisee brought the gospel of a different "Jesus Christ" - not the real one.

The bottom line is this: Paul never gave up his Phariseeism. Jesus warned me against the Pharisees. End of story.
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2013 10:36 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Say you had a friend that was a problem drinker. Is it possible that you , though not having that problem personally, would abstain in their presence out of concern for them? Same principle, kind of, regarding Paul and a new believer in christianity from a Jewish background. It's easier to not eat food sacrificed to idols, even though it's actually okay now, than to explain to this new person why it's now okay.
 Quoting: chauchat


You said that "it's actually okay now [to eat food sacrificed to idols". Yes, that is what Paul the Pharisee teaches.

Where does Jesus say it's okay to do that in Revelation 2:14 & Revelation 2:20?
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2013 10:39 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Pauls's words make it simple and clear; We are saved by faith in what Christ has done for us and not by what we can do, and that faith in Christ is manifested in zealously doing good works for others.

Are the Paul-haters zealously doing good works and proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ when not condemning Paul for every gnat they can imagine?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45878688


Jesus, my Master,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111

Please tell us what you believe about your master Jesus Christ. Please elaborate a little bit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45878688


I believe that we must have faith and trust in the real Jesus, and follow him with repentance and obedience.

A real faithful believer is his wife, and his wife is expected to have faith and trust in her perfect husband, and follow him with repentance and obedience.

A fake, false "wife" says that she has faith in her husband, but she does not follow him with obedience. He will tell her on judgment day "I never knew you".
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2013 10:43 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
I wrote a long answer to this that I was very pleased with, but it disappeared instead of posting. Operating on little sleep right now. Relative dying in hospital, cooking for houseful of out of town family and friends.
- will try to reconstruct what I wrote, though, just not right now-
 Quoting: chauchat


I'm sorry to hear about your relative, may he or she find peace in Jesus!
chauchat

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08/28/2013 11:49 AM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Say you had a friend that was a problem drinker. Is it possible that you , though not having that problem personally, would abstain in their presence out of concern for them? Same principle, kind of, regarding Paul and a new believer in christianity from a Jewish background. It's easier to not eat food sacrificed to idols, even though it's actually okay now, than to explain to this new person why it's now okay.
 Quoting: chauchat


You said that "it's actually okay now [to eat food sacrificed to idols". Yes, that is what Paul the Pharisee teaches.

Where does Jesus say it's okay to do that in Revelation 2:14 & Revelation 2:20?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


rev 2:14 14 “‘Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, that you have there those holding fast the teaching of Balaam,+ who went teaching Balak+ to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit fornication.+

Here's the Balak-Balaam occasion:


Numbers 25:2
2 And the women came calling the people to the sacrifices of their gods,+ and the people began to eat and to bow down to their gods.+

1 Corinthians 5:9
9 In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators,

1 Corinthians 10:8
8 Neither let us practice fornication, as some of them committed fornication,+ only to fall, twenty-three thousand [of them] in one day.+

Ephesians 5:5
5 For YOU know this, recognizing it for yourselves, that no fornicator+ or unclean person or greedy person+—which means being an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of the Christ and of God.*+

Now here's the passage in which you imply Paul is teaching people to stumble others

Can you honestly say this is what you think this passage means? Or does it teach actually the opposite?:



1 Cor.8 Now concerning foods offered to idols:*+ we know we all have knowledge.+ Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.+ 2 If anyone thinks he has acquired knowledge of something,+ he does not yet know [it] just as he ought to know [it].+ 3 But if anyone loves God,+ this one is known by him.+

4 Now concerning the eating+ of foods offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing+ in the world,* and that there is no God but one.
+ 5 For even though there are those who are called “gods,”+ whether in heaven+ or on earth,+ just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”+ 6 there is actually to us one God*+ the Father,+ out of whom all things are, and we for him;+ and there is one Lord,+ Jesus Christ,+ through whom all things are,+ and we through him.

7 Nevertheless, there is not this knowledge in all persons;+ but some, being accustomed until now to the idol, eat food as something sacrificed to an idol,+ and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.+ 8 But food will not commend us to God;+ if we do not eat, we do not fall short, and, if we eat, we have no credit to ourselves.+ 9 But keep watching that this authority of YOURS does not somehow become a stumbling block to those who are weak.+ 10 For if anyone should see you, the one having knowledge, reclining at a meal in an idol temple,* will not the conscience of that one who is weak be built up to the point of eating foods offered to idols?+ 11 Really, by your knowledge, the man that is weak is being ruined, [your] brother for whose sake Christ died.+ 12 But when YOU people thus sin against YOUR brothers and wound their conscience+ that is weak, YOU are sinning against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble,+ I will never again eat flesh at all, that I may not make my brother stumble.+

Last Edited by chauchat on 08/28/2013 11:50 AM
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2013 12:13 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Say you had a friend that was a problem drinker. Is it possible that you , though not having that problem personally, would abstain in their presence out of concern for them? Same principle, kind of, regarding Paul and a new believer in christianity from a Jewish background. It's easier to not eat food sacrificed to idols, even though it's actually okay now, than to explain to this new person why it's now okay.
 Quoting: chauchat


You said that "it's actually okay now [to eat food sacrificed to idols". Yes, that is what Paul the Pharisee teaches.

Where does Jesus say it's okay to do that in Revelation 2:14 & Revelation 2:20?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


rev 2:14 14 “‘Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, that you have there those holding fast the teaching of Balaam,+ who went teaching Balak+ to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit fornication.+

Here's the Balak-Balaam occasion:


Numbers 25:2
2 And the women came calling the people to the sacrifices of their gods,+ and the people began to eat and to bow down to their gods.+

1 Corinthians 5:9
9 In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators,

1 Corinthians 10:8
8 Neither let us practice fornication, as some of them committed fornication,+ only to fall, twenty-three thousand [of them] in one day.+

Ephesians 5:5
5 For YOU know this, recognizing it for yourselves, that no fornicator+ or unclean person or greedy person+—which means being an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of the Christ and of God.*+

Now here's the passage in which you imply Paul is teaching people to stumble others

Can you honestly say this is what you think this passage means? Or does it teach actually the opposite?:



1 Cor.8 Now concerning foods offered to idols:*+ we know we all have knowledge.+ Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.+ 2 If anyone thinks he has acquired knowledge of something,+ he does not yet know [it] just as he ought to know [it].+ 3 But if anyone loves God,+ this one is known by him.+

4 Now concerning the eating+ of foods offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing+ in the world,* and that there is no God but one.
+ 5 For even though there are those who are called “gods,”+ whether in heaven+ or on earth,+ just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”+ 6 there is actually to us one God*+ the Father,+ out of whom all things are, and we for him;+ and there is one Lord,+ Jesus Christ,+ through whom all things are,+ and we through him.

7 Nevertheless, there is not this knowledge in all persons;+ but some, being accustomed until now to the idol, eat food as something sacrificed to an idol,+ and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.+ 8 But food will not commend us to God;+ if we do not eat, we do not fall short, and, if we eat, we have no credit to ourselves.+ 9 But keep watching that this authority of YOURS does not somehow become a stumbling block to those who are weak.+ 10 For if anyone should see you, the one having knowledge, reclining at a meal in an idol temple,* will not the conscience of that one who is weak be built up to the point of eating foods offered to idols?+ 11 Really, by your knowledge, the man that is weak is being ruined, [your] brother for whose sake Christ died.+ 12 But when YOU people thus sin against YOUR brothers and wound their conscience+ that is weak, YOU are sinning against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble,+ I will never again eat flesh at all, that I may not make my brother stumble.+
 Quoting: chauchat


1Cor 8 is not the only passage. See also 1Corinthians 10:25 & 10:27: "whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question" & "every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving" 1Timothy 4:4. 1Cor 8:8 also says "meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse".

Yes, Paul was teaching that eating anything is OK, "asking no question".

Secondly, Paul also taught fornication. Jesus said only adultery was the ONLY legitimate reason for divorce (Matthew 19:9). Paul said if you're married to an unbeliever, it's OK to leave them (1Corinthians 7:15). So, in effect, Paul supported adultery, which leads to fornication.

How can you support Paul the Pharisee when Jesus said to not follow what the Pharisees taught?
chauchat

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08/28/2013 01:27 PM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
I wrote a long answer to this that I was very pleased with, but it disappeared instead of posting. Operating on little sleep right now. Relative dying in hospital, cooking for houseful of out of town family and friends.
- will try to reconstruct what I wrote, though, just not right now-
 Quoting: chauchat


I'm sorry to hear about your relative, may he or she find peace in Jesus!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111

Thankyou. It was my stepmother- an atheist - the default setting around here.

Well at least don't worry about me being as virtuous as I was implying above. Cooking has come to a standstill with little produced and I'm now just sitting around staring into space, trying to avoid going over to bereaved's house, where there will be a bunch of people, ravenous for snacks no doubt, and in no mood to indulge a religtard who has failed to come across with the snacks. ["She doesn't even do the holidays!" -goes the rumor. "A real slacker",they'll hiss.]

Maybe I'm getting sick or something[!] wouldn't want to pass anything around, now would I?
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2013 01:42 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
I wrote a long answer to this that I was very pleased with, but it disappeared instead of posting. Operating on little sleep right now. Relative dying in hospital, cooking for houseful of out of town family and friends.
- will try to reconstruct what I wrote, though, just not right now-
 Quoting: chauchat


I'm sorry to hear about your relative, may he or she find peace in Jesus!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111

Thankyou. It was my stepmother- an atheist - the default setting around here.

Well at least don't worry about me being as virtuous as I was implying above. Cooking has come to a standstill with little produced and I'm now just sitting around staring into space, trying to avoid going over to bereaved's house, where there will be a bunch of people, ravenous for snacks no doubt, and in no mood to indulge a religtard who has failed to come across with the snacks. ["She doesn't even do the holidays!" -goes the rumor. "A real slacker",they'll hiss.]

Maybe I'm getting sick or something[!] wouldn't want to pass anything around, now would I?
 Quoting: chauchat


No, that won't be fun. I pray that you don't get sick.

I have friends & family that also think I'm odd for not really observing their holidays (Christmas, Easter, etc.) in favor of Bibically commanded holidays.
chauchat

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08/28/2013 02:08 PM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
I wrote a long answer to this that I was very pleased with, but it disappeared instead of posting. Operating on little sleep right now. Relative dying in hospital, cooking for houseful of out of town family and friends.
- will try to reconstruct what I wrote, though, just not right now-
 Quoting: chauchat


I'm sorry to hear about your relative, may he or she find peace in Jesus!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111

Thankyou. It was my stepmother- an atheist - the default setting around here.

Well at least don't worry about me being as virtuous as I was implying above. Cooking has come to a standstill with little produced and I'm now just sitting around staring into space, trying to avoid going over to bereaved's house, where there will be a bunch of people, ravenous for snacks no doubt, and in no mood to indulge a religtard who has failed to come across with the snacks. ["She doesn't even do the holidays!" -goes the rumor. "A real slacker",they'll hiss.]

Maybe I'm getting sick or something[!] wouldn't want to pass anything around, now would I?
 Quoting: chauchat


No, that won't be fun. I pray that you don't get sick.

I have friends & family that also think I'm odd for not really observing their holidays (Christmas, Easter, etc.) in favor of Bibically commanded holidays.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


Who knew? we can actually relate on something!

-have to check out for awhile . I'm going to cook something from here-
Being Dead Is No Excuse
Book by Gayden Metcalfe

"Folks in the Delta have a strong sense of community, and being dead is no impediment to belonging to it. Down south, they don't forget you when you've up and died--in fact, they visit you more often. ..."
[please don't report me for spam,. I just thought that blurb was funny. I do have a copy ,but no financial interest , I swear]
Bye for now-

Last Edited by chauchat on 08/28/2013 02:25 PM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Paul was absolutely friggin GENUIS. He talked straight from the Spirit, more so than any of the other disciples/apostles, so that only those with spiritual ears could hear. Romans 13 is a great example. He cloaks his submitting to "higher powers" reference as if to suggest it might be an earthly thing only he's talking about, but it's so much more. He makes a veiled statement referring to the true "higher powers," I.e, the angels' avenging sword of the Old Testament, namely that of Gabriel. Did not he reiterate this when it says that we fight not against flesh and blood? He was a master at writing between the lines, just like His master.
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Those who hate Paul do not love Christ.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821
Raymantheheretic

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Those who hate Paul do not love Christ.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45595821

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45905394


So true considering Christ instructed us to love our enemies.
chauchat

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
You forgot to specify his most important lie: He taught the Egyptian 'god of the dead'-Pharisaical ("synagogue of Satan") doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave, in opposition to the Revelation of "the resurrection" consisting of the Revelation of the Memory of Creation and the revelation of the memories of previous lives.

It was that lie that led directly to the Holocaust.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529



According to Josephus the ""Pharisaical ("synagogue of Satan") doctrine""[<quoting 4Q529] was reincarnation.

"The Jewish Pharisees said that “the souls of good men only are removed into other bodies”?" (Wars of the Jews, Josephus, Book II, chap. VIII, par. 14)
 Quoting: chauchat


This is patently false and relies upon an insufficiently nuanced reading of Josephus, who reports Jewish beliefs in Greek terms for the benefit of his Gentile readers. Josephus says that the Pharisees believe that "the souls of good men only are removed into other bodies, but that the souls of bad men are subject to eternal punishment." (War 2.164) Not only is this contrary to reincarnation principles (as it undermines the idea of karma: bad men do not get another body of a lower form), it misunderstands "other bodies" -- which is a reference to the resurrection body.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42022752


You said my Josephus quote was " patently false and is an insufficiently nuanced reading of Josephus", and then quote exactly the same words and the rest of the same sentence, which doesn't negate at all the part I quoted.
I don't even remember the context of my post and what I was responding to. But it doesn't matter to me if the Pharisees believed in reincarnation, didn't believe in reincarnation, or whatever. What they believed on any particular subject does not necessarily make that belief wrong. Neither does it matter that Paul had been a pharisee. How on earth does that trap him in whatever wrong beliefs the Pharisees held? You who are claiming Paul believed as the Pharisees did his whole life- Are you saying that you [and people in general] were born into your own beliefs, and have no capacity to change your mind when presented with good evidence that your original beliefs were mistaken?
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
But it doesn't matter to me if the Pharisees believed in reincarnation, didn't believe in reincarnation, or whatever. What they believed on any particular subject does not necessarily make that belief wrong. Neither does it matter that Paul had been a pharisee. How on earth does that trap him in whatever wrong beliefs the Pharisees held? You who are claiming Paul believed as the Pharisees did his whole life- Are you saying that you [and people in general] were born into your own beliefs, and have no capacity to change your mind when presented with good evidence that your original beliefs were mistaken?
 Quoting: chauchat


The problem isn't that Paul was a Pharisee. The problem is that Paul never stopped being one. See Acts 23:6, Acts 36:5, Phillipians 3:5.
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
But it doesn't matter to me if the Pharisees believed in reincarnation, didn't believe in reincarnation, or whatever. What they believed on any particular subject does not necessarily make that belief wrong. Neither does it matter that Paul had been a pharisee. How on earth does that trap him in whatever wrong beliefs the Pharisees held? You who are claiming Paul believed as the Pharisees did his whole life- Are you saying that you [and people in general] were born into your own beliefs, and have no capacity to change your mind when presented with good evidence that your original beliefs were mistaken?
 Quoting: chauchat


The problem isn't that Paul was a Pharisee. The problem is that Paul never stopped being one. See Acts 23:6, Acts 36:5, Phillipians 3:5.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


Paul preached nothing but Christ.

What is YOUR problem?
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
But it doesn't matter to me if the Pharisees believed in reincarnation, didn't believe in reincarnation, or whatever. What they believed on any particular subject does not necessarily make that belief wrong. Neither does it matter that Paul had been a pharisee. How on earth does that trap him in whatever wrong beliefs the Pharisees held? You who are claiming Paul believed as the Pharisees did his whole life- Are you saying that you [and people in general] were born into your own beliefs, and have no capacity to change your mind when presented with good evidence that your original beliefs were mistaken?
 Quoting: chauchat


The problem isn't that Paul was a Pharisee. The problem is that Paul never stopped being one. See Acts 23:6, Acts 36:5, Phillipians 3:5.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27752111


Paul preached nothing but Christ.

What is YOUR problem?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45905394

Really?

Paul refers to his teachings as ‘MY gospel’ and ‘ye are all partakers of MY grace’, Romans 2:16. 16:25, Philippians 1:7, II Timothy 2:8.

[link to www.problemswithpaul.com]

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