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The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!

 
chauchat

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08/19/2013 11:43 PM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


In 1559, Pope Paul IV published the first index of books prohibited by the Roman Catholic Church. It forbade possession of Bible translations in Dutch, English, French, German, Italian, and Spanish, as well as some in Latin. Any who wanted to read the Bible were told to obtain written permission from bishops or inquisitors—not an appealing prospect for those who wanted to remain above suspicion of heresy.

People who dared to possess or distribute Bibles in the common languages of their region had to contend with the ire of the Catholic Church. Many were arrested, burned at the stake, roasted on spits, sentenced to life in prison, or sent to the galleys. Confiscated Bibles were burned. Indeed, Catholic priests continued to confiscate and burn Bibles well into the 20th century. [link to wol.jw.org]

Jehovah in the KJV

Gen.22[14] And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.Exod.6[3] And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.Exod.17[15] And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovah-nissi:Judg.6[24] Then Gideon built an altar there unto the LORD, and called it Jehovah-shalom: unto this day it is yet in Ophrah of the Abi-ezrites.Pss.83[18] That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.Isa.12[2] Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.Isa.26[4] Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength
 Quoting: chauchat


1943

hovah: a ruin, disaster
Original Word: הֹוָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: hovah
Phonetic Spelling: (ho-vaw')
Short Definition: disaster

3050

Yah (Jah): Lord
Original Word: יָהּ
Part of Speech: Proper Name
Transliteration: Yah
Phonetic Spelling: (yaw)
Short Definition: LORD

Put it together, Jehovah is the God of disaster or ruin. If you're familiar with the Jesuits, some even admit Jehovah and yahweh are Satan's names.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


The name Jehovah comes from the Hebrew verb ha·wah′, “become,” and actually means “He Causes to Become.” This reveals Jehovah as the One who, with progressive action, causes himself to become the Fulfiller of promises. Thus he always brings his purposes to realization. Only the true God could rightly and authentically bear such a name. [link to wol.jw.org]
 Quoting: chauchat


Well, it seems you have a problem because "Hayah" in Hebrew means to "exist or become".

Here's a link to a woman saying God's name in Yiddish which is closely related to Hebrew (First 15 secs). Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh. (In hebrew it's Hayah Asher Hayah).

Ehyeh is pronounced "A'hayah"
[link to www.youtube.com]

There is no word for "I AM" in hebrew. I AM THAT I AM does not equal Jehovah.

HAYAH הָיָה

to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass
b) to come about, come to pass
2) to come into being, become
a) to arise, appear, come
b) to become
1) to become
2) to become like
3) to be instituted, be established
3) to be
a) to exist, be in existence
b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time)
c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality)
d) to accompany, be with
b) (Niphal)
1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about
2) to be done, be finished, be gone

Jehovah does not come from hayah or Hawah. Hayah = Hawah, different spelling.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


(Je·hovah) [the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Heb. verb ha·wah ; meaning “He Causes to Become”].

God’s reply in Hebrew was:Eh·yeh ;Asher; Eh·yeh. Some translations render this as “I AM THAT I AM.” However, it is to be noted that the Hebrew verb ha·yah, from which the word Eh·yeh is drawn, does not mean simply “be.” Rather, it means “become,” or “prove to be.” The reference here is not to God’s self-existence but to what he has in mind to become toward others. Therefore, the New World Translation properly renders the above Hebrew expression as “I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.” Jehovah thereafter added: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to you.’”—Ex 3:14, ftn. [link to wol.jw.org]

In other words, hayah is the verb become, but the word translated Jehovah in English means "He causes to become" , a whole sentence. He has caused to become, and he is still causing to become = what is indicated by "imperfect tense".
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27294622
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08/19/2013 11:49 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


1943

hovah: a ruin, disaster
Original Word: הֹוָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: hovah
Phonetic Spelling: (ho-vaw')
Short Definition: disaster

3050

Yah (Jah): Lord
Original Word: יָהּ
Part of Speech: Proper Name
Transliteration: Yah
Phonetic Spelling: (yaw)
Short Definition: LORD

Put it together, Jehovah is the God of disaster or ruin. If you're familiar with the Jesuits, some even admit Jehovah and yahweh are Satan's names.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


The name Jehovah comes from the Hebrew verb ha·wah′, “become,” and actually means “He Causes to Become.” This reveals Jehovah as the One who, with progressive action, causes himself to become the Fulfiller of promises. Thus he always brings his purposes to realization. Only the true God could rightly and authentically bear such a name. [link to wol.jw.org]
 Quoting: chauchat


Well, it seems you have a problem because "Hayah" in Hebrew means to "exist or become".

Here's a link to a woman saying God's name in Yiddish which is closely related to Hebrew (First 15 secs). Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh. (In hebrew it's Hayah Asher Hayah).

Ehyeh is pronounced "A'hayah"
[link to www.youtube.com]

There is no word for "I AM" in hebrew. I AM THAT I AM does not equal Jehovah.

HAYAH הָיָה

to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass
b) to come about, come to pass
2) to come into being, become
a) to arise, appear, come
b) to become
1) to become
2) to become like
3) to be instituted, be established
3) to be
a) to exist, be in existence
b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time)
c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality)
d) to accompany, be with
b) (Niphal)
1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about
2) to be done, be finished, be gone

Jehovah does not come from hayah or Hawah. Hayah = Hawah, different spelling.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


(Je·hovah) [the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Heb. verb ha·wah ; meaning “He Causes to Become”].

God’s reply in Hebrew was:Eh·yeh ;Asher; Eh·yeh. Some translations render this as “I AM THAT I AM.” However, it is to be noted that the Hebrew verb ha·yah, from which the word Eh·yeh is drawn, does not mean simply “be.” Rather, it means “become,” or “prove to be.” The reference here is not to God’s self-existence but to what he has in mind to become toward others. Therefore, the New World Translation properly renders the above Hebrew expression as “I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.” Jehovah thereafter added: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to you.’”—Ex 3:14, ftn. [link to wol.jw.org]

In other words, hayah is the verb become, but the word translated Jehovah in English means "He causes to become" , a whole sentence. He has caused to become, and he is still causing to become = what is indicated by "imperfect tense".
 Quoting: chauchat


I already gave you the meaning of Hovah in Hebrew. It means disaster so that can't be God's name. Hebrew contains no J or any J sounding words. So jehovah is false.

The Jewish Encyclopedia: "Jehovah" -- a mispronunciation of the Hebrew YHWH the name of God. This pronunciation is grammatically impossible. The form 'Jehovah' is a philological impossibility."

The New Jewish Encyclopedia: "It is clear that the word Jehovah is an artificial composite."

Encyclopedia Judaica: "the true pronunciation of the tetragrammaton YHWH was never lost. The name was pronounced Yahweh. It was regularly pronounced this way at least until 586 B.C., as is clear from the Lachish Letters written shortly before this date."

The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia: "JEHOVAH is an erroneous pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton a four lettered name of God, made up of the Hebrew letters Yod He Vav He. The word "JEHOVAH" therefore is a misreading for which there is no warrant and which makes no sense in Hebrew"

Webster's Collegiate Dictionary: "Jehovah" -- "False reading of the Hebrew YAHWEH."

Encyclopedia Americana: "Jehovah" -- "erroneous form of the name of the God of Israel."

A Dictionary of the Bible by William Smith: "Whatever, therefore, be the true pronunciation of the word, there can be little doubt that it is not Jehovah."

Encyclopedia Britannica: ""The pronunciation 'Jehovah' is an error resulting among Christians from combining the consonants YHWH with the vowels of ADHONAY....The Masoretes who from the 6th to the 10th century worked to reproduce the original text of the Hebrew Bible replaced the vowels of the name YHWH with the vowel signs of Adonai or Elohim. Thus the artificial name Jehovah came into being."

Webster's Third New International Dictionary: "Jehovah" -- "Intended as a transliteration of Hebrew YAHWEH, the vowel points of Hebrew ADHONAY (my lord) being erroneously substituted for those of YAHWEH; from the fact that in some Hebrew manuscripts the vowel points of ADHONAY (used as a euphemism for YAHWEH) were written under the consonants YHWH of YAHWEH to indicate that ADHONAY was to be substituted in oral reading for YAHWEH. Jehovah is a Christian transliteration of the tetragrammaton long assumed by many Christians to be the authentic reproduction of the Hebrew sacred name for God but now recognized to be a late hybrid form never used by the Jews."

New Catholic Encyclopedia: "Jehovah" -- "false form of the divine name YAHWEH.

The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia: "Jehovah" -- "is an erroneous form of the divine name of the covenant God Israel."

The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible: "Jehovah" --"is an artificial form."

Encyclopedia International: "Jehovah" --"the vowels of one word with the consonants of the other were misread as 'Jehovah.'"

Merits Students Encyclopedia: --"is an inaccurate reconstruction of the name of God in the Old Testament."
Anonymous Coward
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08/19/2013 11:49 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Jesus is not from the tribe of Levi. Jesus is the High Priest now. This is proof that the new covenant law is not the Law of Moses, as the bible says.

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
-- Hebrews 7:11-14
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45437289


You keeping forgetting Jesus is God. So why wouldn't the person who gave the laws to Israel & Levi be above them ?
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


The bible says right there that the laws have changed:

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
-- Hebrews 7:12

We already know that there were no changes at all made to the Law of Moses, (see Matthew 5:18). Therefore the only possibility is that the new covenant has an entirely new set of laws.

The new covenant law is not a modified Law of Moses. The sacrifice laws in the Law of Moses didn't get changed from "make these sacrifices every day" to "sacrifice Jesus once". The execution laws didn't get changed from "execute the person who breaks these laws" to "execute Jesus". The priesthood laws didn't get changed from "priests must be Levites descended from Aaron" to "Jesus Christ is High Priest and all Christians are priests". The new covenant laws are NEW.

Like Jesus said:

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
-- John 13:34

New commandment for a new covenant. New commandments can't be added on to the Law of Moses. The new covenant has a completely new set of laws.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45441139


Even though you're not making any sense. Is idolatry, fornication, murder etc ok now ? Why did Paul mention it ?

Does sin no longer exist ? If there's only 2 commandments now given from Jesus ?
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


Various things such as idolatry, fornication, murder are forbidden under new covenant law. But new covenant law is not the Law of Moses. It's like how murder is illegal in Canada and USA, but each country has its own set of laws.

You're saying Jesus is not under the Law of Moses. Are you saying that it is okay for Jesus to commit idolatry, fornication, murder, etc? Think about that.

You already said Jesus was executed for sins right? Bible says:

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
-- 1 John 2:2


Think about THAT!
chauchat

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08/19/2013 11:49 PM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
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What does the Law of Moses say about priests? Priests have to be descended from Aaron right?

Bible says:

Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
-- Hebrews 3:1

Is that valid under the Law of Moses?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45437289


Priests are from the tribe of Levi. Jesus is above the priests because he is God technically.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great




Hebrews 7 For this Mel·chiz;e·dek, king of Sa;lem, priest of the Most High God,+ who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him+ 2 and to whom Abraham apportioned a tenth from all things,+ is first of all, by translation, “King of Righteousness,” and is then also king of Sa;lem,+ that is, “King of Peace.” 3 In being fatherless, motherless, without genealogy, having neither a beginning of days+ nor an end of life, but having been made like the Son of God,+ he remains a priest perpetually.+

4 BEHOLD, then, how great this man was to whom Abraham, the family head,* gave a tenth out of the chief spoils.+ 5 True, the men from the sons of Le;vi+ who receive their priestly office have a commandment to collect tithes+ from the people+ according to the Law, that is, from their brothers, even if these have issued from the loins of Abraham;+ 6 but the man who did not trace his genealogy+ from them took tithes from Abraham+ and blessed him who had the promises.+ 7 Now without any dispute,* the less is blessed by the greater.+ 8 And in the one case it is men who are dying that receive tithes,+ but in the other case it is someone of whom it is witnessed that he lives.+ 9 And, if I may use the expression, through Abraham even Levi who receives tithes has paid tithes, 10 for he was still in the loins+ of his forefather when Mel·chize·dek met him.+

11 If, then, perfection+ were really through the Levitical priesthood,+ (for with it as a feature* the people were given the Law,)+ what further need would there be+ for another priest to arise according to the manner* of Mel·chiz;e·dek+ and not said to be according to the manner of Aaron? 12 For since the priesthood is being changed,+ there comes to be of necessity a change also of the law.+ 13 For the man respecting whom these things are said has been a member of another tribe,+ from which no one has officiated at the altar.+ 14 For it is quite plain that our Lord has sprung up out of Judah,+ a tribe about which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.

15 And it is still more abundantly clear that with a similarity* to Mel·chiz;e·dek+ there arises another priest,+ 16 who has become such, not according to the law of a commandment depending upon the flesh,+ but according to the power of an indestructible* life,+ 17 for in witness it is said: “You are a priest forever according to the manner of Mel·chiz;e·dek.”+

18 Certainly, then, there occurs a setting aside of the preceding commandment on account of its weakness+ and ineffectiveness.*+ 19 For the Law made nothing perfect,+ but the bringing in besides of a better hope+ did, through which we are drawing near to God.+ 20 Also, to the extent that it was not without a sworn oath, 21 (for there are indeed men that have become priests without a sworn oath, but there is one with an oath sworn by the One who said respecting him: “Jehovah* has sworn+ (and he will feel no regret), ‘You are a priest forever,’”)+ 22 to that extent also Jesus has become the one given in pledge of a better covenant.*+ 23 Furthermore, many had to become priests [in succession]+ because of being prevented by death+ from continuing as such, 24 but he because of continuing alive forever+ has his priesthood without any successors.* 25 Consequently he is able also to save completely those who are approaching God through him, because he is always alive to plead* for them.+

26 For such a high priest as this was suitable for us,+ loyal,+ guileless,+ undefiled,+ separated from the sinners,+ and become higher than the heavens.+ 27 He does not need daily,+ as those high priests do, to offer up sacrifices, first for his own sins+ and then for those of the people:+ (for this he did once+ for all time when he offered+ himself up;) 28 for the Law appoints men high priests+ having weakness,+ but the word of the sworn oath+ that came after the Law appoints a Son, who is perfected*+ forever.
 Quoting: chauchat



He wasn't from Israel so your argument is flawed. He was a priest in his land. Not Israel's.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


You mean Melchizedek? Salem became Jerusalem, right? Anyway, I've got to hand it to you. I assume you still mean something by this, but I think I'm too tired now to figure out what you mean by this.
Anyway, I thought this scripture kind of elaborated on what you said and referred also to what the other guy said, and maybe, for all I know, was what he was trying to elicit from you.

Last Edited by chauchat on 08/19/2013 11:54 PM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
[link to www.justgivemethetruth.com]

The Apostle Paul Was A Deceiver!

He was Satan In The Flesh! An Antichrist!

Matthew 24:4-5 states you will be deceived by people that come using Jesus’ name. Consider the parable of the sower. Jesus was warning us then that as soon as His Gospel was preached, the enemy (Paul) would be there to steal the truth!



Paul said God's law was a Curse. Jesus said it was a blessing. Who's lying?

Paul condemned Jesus and His disciples for false teachings, he condemned Jesus Himself for having long hair in 1 Corinthians 11:14, something approved in Numbers 6:5 and Judges 13:5.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 510799


Interesting comments, people have argued over and discussed these things down through the ages. In a nutshell regarding two of your points:

There are TWO laws - the Ten Commandments, which were written on/in stone by God Himself; and the civic and ceremonial laws, which were put in the ark BESIDE the Ten Commandments and were given by God but written in a BOOK by human Moses. Paul was referring to these "Mosaic" laws. Written by God on STONE, the Ten Commandments cannot be changed. Nowhere in the Bible is there a God-authorized or any other change from Sabbath to Sunday (first day), the seventh-day Sabbath is part of the Ten Commandments (the ceremonial sabbaths are in the Mosaic law and were done away with at the cross). Easy to erase something written on paper; almost impossible if it's on stone.

We do not know the length that Jesus and His disciples wore their hair. Most paintings of Him were done eons ago in a time when long hair for men was fashionable. Don't want to go into much detail, but, yes, according to I Corinthians 11:14, Jesus did not have really long hair. They followed the Bible first and then the fashion of their day.

Thanks for your comments, it's always good to study these things.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2268641


No, there is only 1 law and it's 613 commandments. Certain things don't apply anymore because Israel isn't in their land. And Jesus was our sacrifice so ceremonial sacrifices aren't needed anymore etc.

"Ceremonial laws were done away with" Thats false because you're not suppose to eat pork. In Genesis Noah was aware of clean & unclean animals before the laws were even written down.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


I do not eat pork, I am a vegetarian (see Genesis 1:29 for what God wants us to eat). Yes, Noah knew this as well. AND... the pork/shellfish thing is not in the ceremonial law, it is in the dietary law. There were three sets of Mosaic laws: ceremonial, civic, dietary.
chauchat

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08/20/2013 12:05 AM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
[link to www.justgivemethetruth.com]

The Apostle Paul Was A Deceiver!

He was Satan In The Flesh! An Antichrist!

Matthew 24:4-5 states you will be deceived by people that come using Jesus’ name. Consider the parable of the sower. Jesus was warning us then that as soon as His Gospel was preached, the enemy (Paul) would be there to steal the truth!



Paul said God's law was a Curse. Jesus said it was a blessing. Who's lying?

Paul condemned Jesus and His disciples for false teachings, he condemned Jesus Himself for having long hair in 1 Corinthians 11:14, something approved in Numbers 6:5 and Judges 13:5.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 510799


Interesting comments, people have argued over and discussed these things down through the ages. In a nutshell regarding two of your points:

There are TWO laws - the Ten Commandments, which were written on/in stone by God Himself; and the civic and ceremonial laws, which were put in the ark BESIDE the Ten Commandments and were given by God but written in a BOOK by human Moses. Paul was referring to these "Mosaic" laws. Written by God on STONE, the Ten Commandments cannot be changed. Nowhere in the Bible is there a God-authorized or any other change from Sabbath to Sunday (first day), the seventh-day Sabbath is part of the Ten Commandments (the ceremonial sabbaths are in the Mosaic law and were done away with at the cross). Easy to erase something written on paper; almost impossible if it's on stone.

We do not know the length that Jesus and His disciples wore their hair. Most paintings of Him were done eons ago in a time when long hair for men was fashionable. Don't want to go into much detail, but, yes, according to I Corinthians 11:14, Jesus did not have really long hair. They followed the Bible first and then the fashion of their day.

Thanks for your comments, it's always good to study these things.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2268641


No, there is only 1 law and it's 613 commandments. Certain things don't apply anymore because Israel isn't in their land. And Jesus was our sacrifice so ceremonial sacrifices aren't needed anymore etc.

"Ceremonial laws were done away with" Thats false because you're not suppose to eat pork. In Genesis Noah was aware of clean & unclean animals before the laws were even written down.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


I do not eat pork, I am a vegetarian (see Genesis 1:29 for what God wants us to eat). Yes, Noah knew this as well. AND... the pork/shellfish thing is not in the ceremonial law, it is in the dietary law. There were three sets of Mosaic laws: ceremonial, civic, dietary.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2268641


Acts 1:9 The next day as they were pursuing their journey and were approaching the city, Peter went up to the housetop+ about the sixth hour* to pray.+ 10 But he became very hungry and wanted to eat. While they were preparing, he fell into a trance+ 11 and beheld heaven opened+ and some sort of vessel descending like a great linen sheet being let down by its four extremities upon the earth; 12 and in it there were all sorts of four-footed creatures and creeping things of the earth and birds of heaven.+ 13 And a voice came to him: “Rise, Peter, slaughter* and eat!”+ 14 But Peter said: “Not at all, Lord, because never have I eaten anything defiled and unclean.”+ 15 And the voice [spoke] again to him, the second time: “You stop calling defiled+ the things God has cleansed.” 16 This occurred a third time, and immediately the vessel was taken up into heaven.+

acts 15:3... these men continued on their way through both Phoe·nicia and Sa·mari·a, relating in detail the conversion* of people of the nations,+ and they were causing great joy to all the brothers.+ 4 On arriving in Jerusalem they were kindly received+ by the congregation and the apostles and the older men, and they recounted the many things God had done by means of them.+ 5 Yet, some of those of the sect of the Pharisees that had believed rose up from their seats and said: “It is necessary to circumcise them+ and charge them to observe the law of Moses.”+

6 And the apostles and the older men gathered together to see about this affair.+ 7 Now when much disputing+ had taken place, Peter rose and said to them: “Men, brothers, YOU well know that from early days God made the choice among YOU that through my mouth people of the nations should hear the word of the good news and believe;+ 8 and God, who knows the heart,+ bore witness by giving them the holy spirit,+ just as he did to us also. 9 And he made no distinction at all between us and them,+ but purified their hearts by faith.+ 10 Now, therefore, why are YOU making a test of God by imposing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke+ that neither our forefathers nor we were capable of bearing?+ 11 On the contrary, we trust to get saved through the undeserved kindness+ of the Lord Jesus in the same way as those people also.”+

12 At that the entire multitude became silent, and they began to listen to Barna·bas and Paul relate the many signs and portents that God did through them among the nations.+ 13 After they quit speaking, James answered, saying: “Men, brothers, hear me.+ 14 Syme·on*+ has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.+ 15 And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, 16 ‘After these things I shall return and rebuild the booth* of David that is fallen down; and I shall rebuild its ruins and erect it again,+ 17 in order that those who remain of the men may earnestly seek Jehovah,* together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name,* says Jehovah,* who is doing these things,+ 18 known from of old.’*+ 19 Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God,+ 20 but to write them to abstain* from things polluted by idols+ and from fornication*+ and from what is strangled*+ and from blood.*+ 21 For from ancient times* Moses has had in city after city those who preach him, because he is read aloud in the synagogues on every sabbath.”+

Last Edited by chauchat on 08/20/2013 12:07 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


You keeping forgetting Jesus is God. So why wouldn't the person who gave the laws to Israel & Levi be above them ?
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


The bible says right there that the laws have changed:

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
-- Hebrews 7:12

We already know that there were no changes at all made to the Law of Moses, (see Matthew 5:18). Therefore the only possibility is that the new covenant has an entirely new set of laws.

The new covenant law is not a modified Law of Moses. The sacrifice laws in the Law of Moses didn't get changed from "make these sacrifices every day" to "sacrifice Jesus once". The execution laws didn't get changed from "execute the person who breaks these laws" to "execute Jesus". The priesthood laws didn't get changed from "priests must be Levites descended from Aaron" to "Jesus Christ is High Priest and all Christians are priests". The new covenant laws are NEW.

Like Jesus said:

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
-- John 13:34

New commandment for a new covenant. New commandments can't be added on to the Law of Moses. The new covenant has a completely new set of laws.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45441139


Even though you're not making any sense. Is idolatry, fornication, murder etc ok now ? Why did Paul mention it ?

Does sin no longer exist ? If there's only 2 commandments now given from Jesus ?
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


Various things such as idolatry, fornication, murder are forbidden under new covenant law. But new covenant law is not the Law of Moses. It's like how murder is illegal in Canada and USA, but each country has its own set of laws.

You're saying Jesus is not under the Law of Moses. Are you saying that it is okay for Jesus to commit idolatry, fornication, murder, etc? Think about that.

You already said Jesus was executed for sins right? Bible says:

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
-- 1 John 2:2


Think about THAT!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15806667


Jesus followed the law so I don't understand your point. How can you take commandments from the mosaic law but say it doesn't apply ?

The NT has no laws according to christians. Meaning there is no sin.

Faith without works is dead. And works is following commandments.
Anonymous Coward
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08/20/2013 12:09 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
[link to www.justgivemethetruth.com]

The Apostle Paul Was A Deceiver!

He was Satan In The Flesh! An Antichrist!

Matthew 24:4-5 states you will be deceived by people that come using Jesus’ name. Consider the parable of the sower. Jesus was warning us then that as soon as His Gospel was preached, the enemy (Paul) would be there to steal the truth!



Paul said God's law was a Curse. Jesus said it was a blessing. Who's lying?

Paul condemned Jesus and His disciples for false teachings, he condemned Jesus Himself for having long hair in 1 Corinthians 11:14, something approved in Numbers 6:5 and Judges 13:5.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 510799


Interesting comments, people have argued over and discussed these things down through the ages. In a nutshell regarding two of your points:

There are TWO laws - the Ten Commandments, which were written on/in stone by God Himself; and the civic and ceremonial laws, which were put in the ark BESIDE the Ten Commandments and were given by God but written in a BOOK by human Moses. Paul was referring to these "Mosaic" laws. Written by God on STONE, the Ten Commandments cannot be changed. Nowhere in the Bible is there a God-authorized or any other change from Sabbath to Sunday (first day), the seventh-day Sabbath is part of the Ten Commandments (the ceremonial sabbaths are in the Mosaic law and were done away with at the cross). Easy to erase something written on paper; almost impossible if it's on stone.

We do not know the length that Jesus and His disciples wore their hair. Most paintings of Him were done eons ago in a time when long hair for men was fashionable. Don't want to go into much detail, but, yes, according to I Corinthians 11:14, Jesus did not have really long hair. They followed the Bible first and then the fashion of their day.

Thanks for your comments, it's always good to study these things.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2268641


No, there is only 1 law and it's 613 commandments. Certain things don't apply anymore because Israel isn't in their land. And Jesus was our sacrifice so ceremonial sacrifices aren't needed anymore etc.

"Ceremonial laws were done away with" Thats false because you're not suppose to eat pork. In Genesis Noah was aware of clean & unclean animals before the laws were even written down.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


I do not eat pork, I am a vegetarian (see Genesis 1:29 for what God wants us to eat). Yes, Noah knew this as well. AND... the pork/shellfish thing is not in the ceremonial law, it is in the dietary law. There were three sets of Mosaic laws: ceremonial, civic, dietary.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2268641


Yeah thats what I meant. But you don't necessarily have to be a vegetarian now. Meat is permitted by God. But yes, pork and shellfish are forbidden. All Abrahamic religions agree on this. It's only Christians who deny it.
chauchat

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08/20/2013 12:19 AM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


The bible says right there that the laws have changed:

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
-- Hebrews 7:12

We already know that there were no changes at all made to the Law of Moses, (see Matthew 5:18). Therefore the only possibility is that the new covenant has an entirely new set of laws.

The new covenant law is not a modified Law of Moses. The sacrifice laws in the Law of Moses didn't get changed from "make these sacrifices every day" to "sacrifice Jesus once". The execution laws didn't get changed from "execute the person who breaks these laws" to "execute Jesus". The priesthood laws didn't get changed from "priests must be Levites descended from Aaron" to "Jesus Christ is High Priest and all Christians are priests". The new covenant laws are NEW.

Like Jesus said:

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
-- John 13:34

New commandment for a new covenant. New commandments can't be added on to the Law of Moses. The new covenant has a completely new set of laws.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45441139


Even though you're not making any sense. Is idolatry, fornication, murder etc ok now ? Why did Paul mention it ?

Does sin no longer exist ? If there's only 2 commandments now given from Jesus ?
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


Various things such as idolatry, fornication, murder are forbidden under new covenant law. But new covenant law is not the Law of Moses. It's like how murder is illegal in Canada and USA, but each country has its own set of laws.

You're saying Jesus is not under the Law of Moses. Are you saying that it is okay for Jesus to commit idolatry, fornication, murder, etc? Think about that.

You already said Jesus was executed for sins right? Bible says:

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
-- 1 John 2:2


Think about THAT!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15806667


Jesus followed the law so I don't understand your point. How can you take commandments from the mosaic law but say it doesn't apply ?

The NT has no laws according to christians. Meaning there is no sin.

Faith without works is dead. And works is following commandments.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


James 2:18 Nevertheless, a certain one will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith by my works.”+ 19 You believe there is one God, do you?+ You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder.*+ 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is inactive? 21 Was not Abraham our father+ declared righteous by works after he had offered up Isaac his son upon the altar?+ 22 You behold that [his] faith worked along with his works and by [his] works [his] faith was perfected,+ 23 and the scripture was fulfilled which says: “Abraham put faith in Jehovah,* and it was counted to him as righteousness,”+ and he came to be called “Jehovah’s* friend.”+

24 YOU see that a man is to be declared righteous+ by works,+ and not by faith alone.+ 25 In the same manner was not also Ra′hab+ the harlot declared righteous by works, after she had received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way?+ 26 Indeed, as the body without spirit* is dead,+ so also faith without works is dead.+

Abraham and Rahab here are given as examples of showing their faith by their works. A. lived before the law covenant was given. And R. was not an Israelite and thus not under the law covenant. Their works were not about carrying out "the law". Their works showed in Whom they put their faith.
Anonymous Coward
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08/20/2013 12:41 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


Even though you're not making any sense. Is idolatry, fornication, murder etc ok now ? Why did Paul mention it ?

Does sin no longer exist ? If there's only 2 commandments now given from Jesus ?
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


Various things such as idolatry, fornication, murder are forbidden under new covenant law. But new covenant law is not the Law of Moses. It's like how murder is illegal in Canada and USA, but each country has its own set of laws.

You're saying Jesus is not under the Law of Moses. Are you saying that it is okay for Jesus to commit idolatry, fornication, murder, etc? Think about that.

You already said Jesus was executed for sins right? Bible says:

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
-- 1 John 2:2


Think about THAT!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15806667


Jesus followed the law so I don't understand your point. How can you take commandments from the mosaic law but say it doesn't apply ?

The NT has no laws according to christians. Meaning there is no sin.

Faith without works is dead. And works is following commandments.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


James 2:18 Nevertheless, a certain one will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith by my works.”+ 19 You believe there is one God, do you?+ You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder.*+ 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is inactive? 21 Was not Abraham our father+ declared righteous by works after he had offered up Isaac his son upon the altar?+ 22 You behold that [his] faith worked along with his works and by [his] works [his] faith was perfected,+ 23 and the scripture was fulfilled which says: “Abraham put faith in Jehovah,* and it was counted to him as righteousness,”+ and he came to be called “Jehovah’s* friend.”+

24 YOU see that a man is to be declared righteous+ by works,+ and not by faith alone.+ 25 In the same manner was not also Ra′hab+ the harlot declared righteous by works, after she had received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way?+ 26 Indeed, as the body without spirit* is dead,+ so also faith without works is dead.+

Abraham and Rahab here are given as examples of showing their faith by their works. A. lived before the law covenant was given. And R. was not an Israelite and thus not under the law covenant. Their works were not about carrying out "the law". Their works showed in Whom they put their faith.
 Quoting: chauchat



Sir, Commandments existed before the law was written. Abraham smashed all his father's idols before he was given the land of Canaan. This is written in the Book Of Jasher which is referenced in the bible.

The law of God was orally told then.

It seems you don't know what "the law" is. Giving to charity, helping the poor etc is in the law of God.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do God's commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

What Commandments ?

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus

Faith in Christ is separate from God's commandments.
chauchat

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08/20/2013 01:07 AM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


Interesting comments, people have argued over and discussed these things down through the ages. In a nutshell regarding two of your points:

There are TWO laws - the Ten Commandments, which were written on/in stone by God Himself; and the civic and ceremonial laws, which were put in the ark BESIDE the Ten Commandments and were given by God but written in a BOOK by human Moses. Paul was referring to these "Mosaic" laws. Written by God on STONE, the Ten Commandments cannot be changed. Nowhere in the Bible is there a God-authorized or any other change from Sabbath to Sunday (first day), the seventh-day Sabbath is part of the Ten Commandments (the ceremonial sabbaths are in the Mosaic law and were done away with at the cross). Easy to erase something written on paper; almost impossible if it's on stone.

We do not know the length that Jesus and His disciples wore their hair. Most paintings of Him were done eons ago in a time when long hair for men was fashionable. Don't want to go into much detail, but, yes, according to I Corinthians 11:14, Jesus did not have really long hair. They followed the Bible first and then the fashion of their day.

Thanks for your comments, it's always good to study these things.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2268641


No, there is only 1 law and it's 613 commandments. Certain things don't apply anymore because Israel isn't in their land. And Jesus was our sacrifice so ceremonial sacrifices aren't needed anymore etc.

"Ceremonial laws were done away with" Thats false because you're not suppose to eat pork. In Genesis Noah was aware of clean & unclean animals before the laws were even written down.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


I do not eat pork, I am a vegetarian (see Genesis 1:29 for what God wants us to eat). Yes, Noah knew this as well. AND... the pork/shellfish thing is not in the ceremonial law, it is in the dietary law. There were three sets of Mosaic laws: ceremonial, civic, dietary.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2268641


Yeah thats what I meant. But you don't necessarily have to be a vegetarian now. Meat is permitted by God. But yes, pork and shellfish are forbidden. All Abrahamic religions agree on this. It's only Christians who deny it.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


Wouldn't what I posted tend to argue otherwise? Are you saying Christians shouldn't eat pork or shellfish? If so ,can you justify it from scripture?

"Abrahamic faiths"? Are you like these people in John 1:31?“If YOU remain in my word,+ YOU are really my disciples, 32 and YOU will know the truth,+ and the truth will set YOU free.”+ 33 They replied to him: “We are Abraham’s offspring*+ and never have we been slaves to anybody.+ How is it you say, ‘YOU will become free’?"
They were claiming that made them superior . Jesus told them they weren't even Abraham's children, because they didn't do the works befitting faith in Jehovah, as Abraham had done.

I'll repost this in hopes you'll respond this time. [and since you're apparently no longer responding to what I say, think I'll take this opp'y to go to bed.]


Acts 1:9 The next day as they were pursuing their journey and were approaching the city, Peter went up to the housetop+ about the sixth hour* to pray.+ 10 But he became very hungry and wanted to eat. While they were preparing, he fell into a trance+ 11 and beheld heaven opened+ and some sort of vessel descending like a great linen sheet being let down by its four extremities upon the earth; 12 and in it there were all sorts of four-footed creatures and creeping things of the earth and birds of heaven.+ 13 And a voice came to him: “Rise, Peter, slaughter* and eat!”+ 14 But Peter said: “Not at all, Lord, because never have I eaten anything defiled and unclean.”+ 15 And the voice [spoke] again to him, the second time: “You stop calling defiled+ the things God has cleansed.” 16 This occurred a third time, and immediately the vessel was taken up into heaven.+

acts 15:3... these men continued on their way through both Phoe·nicia and Sa·mari·a, relating in detail the conversion* of people of the nations,+ and they were causing great joy to all the brothers.+ 4 On arriving in Jerusalem they were kindly received+ by the congregation and the apostles and the older men, and they recounted the many things God had done by means of them.+ 5 Yet, some of those of the sect of the Pharisees that had believed rose up from their seats and said: “It is necessary to circumcise them+ and charge them to observe the law of Moses.”+

6 And the apostles and the older men gathered together to see about this affair.+ 7 Now when much disputing+ had taken place, Peter rose and said to them: “Men, brothers, YOU well know that from early days God made the choice among YOU that through my mouth people of the nations should hear the word of the good news and believe;+ 8 and God, who knows the heart,+ bore witness by giving them the holy spirit,+ just as he did to us also. 9 And he made no distinction at all between us and them,+ but purified their hearts by faith.+ 10 Now, therefore, why are YOU making a test of God by imposing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke+ that neither our forefathers nor we were capable of bearing?+ 11 On the contrary, we trust to get saved through the undeserved kindness+ of the Lord Jesus in the same way as those people also.”+

12 At that the entire multitude became silent, and they began to listen to Barna·bas and Paul relate the many signs and portents that God did through them among the nations.+ 13 After they quit speaking, James answered, saying: “Men, brothers, hear me.+ 14 Syme·on*+ has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.+ 15 And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, 16 ‘After these things I shall return and rebuild the booth* of David that is fallen down; and I shall rebuild its ruins and erect it again,+ 17 in order that those who remain of the men may earnestly seek Jehovah,* together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name,* says Jehovah,* who is doing these things,+ 18 known from of old.’*+ 19 Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God,+ 20 but to write them to abstain* from things polluted by idols+ and from fornication*+ and from what is strangled*+ and from blood.*+ 21 For from ancient times* Moses has had in city after city those who preach him, because he is read aloud in the synagogues on every sabbath.”+
didymusclairvoyant

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08/20/2013 01:15 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!

Anonymous Coward
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08/20/2013 01:29 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


The bible says right there that the laws have changed:

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
-- Hebrews 7:12

We already know that there were no changes at all made to the Law of Moses, (see Matthew 5:18). Therefore the only possibility is that the new covenant has an entirely new set of laws.

The new covenant law is not a modified Law of Moses. The sacrifice laws in the Law of Moses didn't get changed from "make these sacrifices every day" to "sacrifice Jesus once". The execution laws didn't get changed from "execute the person who breaks these laws" to "execute Jesus". The priesthood laws didn't get changed from "priests must be Levites descended from Aaron" to "Jesus Christ is High Priest and all Christians are priests". The new covenant laws are NEW.

Like Jesus said:

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
-- John 13:34

New commandment for a new covenant. New commandments can't be added on to the Law of Moses. The new covenant has a completely new set of laws.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45441139


Even though you're not making any sense. Is idolatry, fornication, murder etc ok now ? Why did Paul mention it ?

Does sin no longer exist ? If there's only 2 commandments now given from Jesus ?
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


Various things such as idolatry, fornication, murder are forbidden under new covenant law. But new covenant law is not the Law of Moses. It's like how murder is illegal in Canada and USA, but each country has its own set of laws.

You're saying Jesus is not under the Law of Moses. Are you saying that it is okay for Jesus to commit idolatry, fornication, murder, etc? Think about that.

You already said Jesus was executed for sins right? Bible says:

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
-- 1 John 2:2


Think about THAT!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15806667


Jesus followed the law so I don't understand your point. How can you take commandments from the mosaic law but say it doesn't apply ?

The NT has no laws according to christians. Meaning there is no sin.

Faith without works is dead. And works is following commandments.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


If Jesus was still under the Law of Moses, Jesus could not be High Priest.

For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
-- Hebrews 7:28

The NT has no laws according to YOU. Christians can easily find laws in there.

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
-- John 13:34

Jesus said what the work God wants is:

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
-- John 6:28-29
Anonymous Coward
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08/20/2013 01:35 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


No, there is only 1 law and it's 613 commandments. Certain things don't apply anymore because Israel isn't in their land. And Jesus was our sacrifice so ceremonial sacrifices aren't needed anymore etc.

"Ceremonial laws were done away with" Thats false because you're not suppose to eat pork. In Genesis Noah was aware of clean & unclean animals before the laws were even written down.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


I do not eat pork, I am a vegetarian (see Genesis 1:29 for what God wants us to eat). Yes, Noah knew this as well. AND... the pork/shellfish thing is not in the ceremonial law, it is in the dietary law. There were three sets of Mosaic laws: ceremonial, civic, dietary.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2268641


Yeah thats what I meant. But you don't necessarily have to be a vegetarian now. Meat is permitted by God. But yes, pork and shellfish are forbidden. All Abrahamic religions agree on this. It's only Christians who deny it.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


Wouldn't what I posted tend to argue otherwise? Are you saying Christians shouldn't eat pork or shellfish? If so ,can you justify it from scripture?

"Abrahamic faiths"? Are you like these people in John 1:31?“If YOU remain in my word,+ YOU are really my disciples, 32 and YOU will know the truth,+ and the truth will set YOU free.”+ 33 They replied to him: “We are Abraham’s offspring*+ and never have we been slaves to anybody.+ How is it you say, ‘YOU will become free’?"
They were claiming that made them superior . Jesus told them they weren't even Abraham's children, because they didn't do the works befitting faith in Jehovah, as Abraham had done.

I'll repost this in hopes you'll respond this time. [and since you're apparently no longer responding to what I say, think I'll take this opp'y to go to bed.]


Acts 1:9 The next day as they were pursuing their journey and were approaching the city, Peter went up to the housetop+ about the sixth hour* to pray.+ 10 But he became very hungry and wanted to eat. While they were preparing, he fell into a trance+ 11 and beheld heaven opened+ and some sort of vessel descending like a great linen sheet being let down by its four extremities upon the earth; 12 and in it there were all sorts of four-footed creatures and creeping things of the earth and birds of heaven.+ 13 And a voice came to him: “Rise, Peter, slaughter* and eat!”+ 14 But Peter said: “Not at all, Lord, because never have I eaten anything defiled and unclean.”+ 15 And the voice [spoke] again to him, the second time: “You stop calling defiled+ the things God has cleansed.” 16 This occurred a third time, and immediately the vessel was taken up into heaven.+

acts 15:3... these men continued on their way through both Phoe·nicia and Sa·mari·a, relating in detail the conversion* of people of the nations,+ and they were causing great joy to all the brothers.+ 4 On arriving in Jerusalem they were kindly received+ by the congregation and the apostles and the older men, and they recounted the many things God had done by means of them.+ 5 Yet, some of those of the sect of the Pharisees that had believed rose up from their seats and said: “It is necessary to circumcise them+ and charge them to observe the law of Moses.”+

6 And the apostles and the older men gathered together to see about this affair.+ 7 Now when much disputing+ had taken place, Peter rose and said to them: “Men, brothers, YOU well know that from early days God made the choice among YOU that through my mouth people of the nations should hear the word of the good news and believe;+ 8 and God, who knows the heart,+ bore witness by giving them the holy spirit,+ just as he did to us also. 9 And he made no distinction at all between us and them,+ but purified their hearts by faith.+ 10 Now, therefore, why are YOU making a test of God by imposing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke+ that neither our forefathers nor we were capable of bearing?+ 11 On the contrary, we trust to get saved through the undeserved kindness+ of the Lord Jesus in the same way as those people also.”+

12 At that the entire multitude became silent, and they began to listen to Barna·bas and Paul relate the many signs and portents that God did through them among the nations.+ 13 After they quit speaking, James answered, saying: “Men, brothers, hear me.+ 14 Syme·on*+ has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.+ 15 And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, 16 ‘After these things I shall return and rebuild the booth* of David that is fallen down; and I shall rebuild its ruins and erect it again,+ 17 in order that those who remain of the men may earnestly seek Jehovah,* together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name,* says Jehovah,* who is doing these things,+ 18 known from of old.’*+ 19 Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God,+ 20 but to write them to abstain* from things polluted by idols+ and from fornication*+ and from what is strangled*+ and from blood.*+ 21 For from ancient times* Moses has had in city after city those who preach him, because he is read aloud in the synagogues on every sabbath.”+
 Quoting: chauchat



It's already justified because they were known sins and sin does not change. I gave you the verse with Noah being aware of unclean animals.

No, Christians should not eat pork or shellfish. They are abominations. Do you accept gay christians ? Homosexuality is forbidden in the OT laws.

Abrahamic faiths meaning Islam, Judaism etc. They all agree on the same laws. Jesus is the disagreement. But Christians usually deny following God's commandments when the bible clearly says you should follow them.

If you agree Idolatry, homosexuality, fornication, prostitution etc are forbidden. Then why don't you agree not eating pork & shellfish are forbidden & keeping the sabbath holy is necessary ? They're all from the same law. You can't pick and choose which ones you wanna keep.

I shouldn't have to prove anything. Those are all God's commandments. And it's clear they were known before Moses existed.

Christians were grafted into Israel. You are now apart of Israel meaning you all share the same beliefs.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

If Israel hasn't been casted away, how can you have 2 groups of people with different beliefs ?

God is NOT the author of confusion. There has to be a universal agreement with all believers following the same law.

Again, sin is sin. Sin does not change. God certainly wouldn't let something sinful become "ok" to eat or do. Sin has always been objective. It does not change.
chauchat

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08/20/2013 02:25 AM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


Various things such as idolatry, fornication, murder are forbidden under new covenant law. But new covenant law is not the Law of Moses. It's like how murder is illegal in Canada and USA, but each country has its own set of laws.

You're saying Jesus is not under the Law of Moses. Are you saying that it is okay for Jesus to commit idolatry, fornication, murder, etc? Think about that.

You already said Jesus was executed for sins right? Bible says:

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
-- 1 John 2:2


Think about THAT!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15806667


Jesus followed the law so I don't understand your point. How can you take commandments from the mosaic law but say it doesn't apply ?

The NT has no laws according to christians. Meaning there is no sin.

Faith without works is dead. And works is following commandments.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


James 2:18 Nevertheless, a certain one will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith by my works.”+ 19 You believe there is one God, do you?+ You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder.*+ 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is inactive? 21 Was not Abraham our father+ declared righteous by works after he had offered up Isaac his son upon the altar?+ 22 You behold that [his] faith worked along with his works and by [his] works [his] faith was perfected,+ 23 and the scripture was fulfilled which says: “Abraham put faith in Jehovah,* and it was counted to him as righteousness,”+ and he came to be called “Jehovah’s* friend.”+

24 YOU see that a man is to be declared righteous+ by works,+ and not by faith alone.+ 25 In the same manner was not also Ra′hab+ the harlot declared righteous by works, after she had received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way?+ 26 Indeed, as the body without spirit* is dead,+ so also faith without works is dead.+

Abraham and Rahab here are given as examples of showing their faith by their works. A. lived before the law covenant was given. And R. was not an Israelite and thus not under the law covenant. Their works were not about carrying out "the law". Their works showed in Whom they put their faith.
 Quoting: chauchat



Sir, Commandments existed before the law was written. Abraham smashed all his father's idols before he was given the land of Canaan. This is written in the Book Of Jasher which is referenced in the bible.

The law of God was orally told then.

It seems you don't know what "the law" is. Giving to charity, helping the poor etc is in the law of God.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do God's commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

What Commandments ?

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus

Faith in Christ is separate from God's commandments.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


I'm a "ma'am", not a sir.

Rev. 22:14 Happy are those who wash their robes,+ that the authority [to go] to the trees* of life+ may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates.+

ADMISSION TO THE HOLY CITY

Jehovah now focuses attention on the faithful 144,000 followers of Christ who have heavenly hopes and who have accepted the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and have by faith been loosed from their sins by means of his blood so that they may appear free from sin in God’s sight. (Rev. 1:5; 1 John 1:7) He says: “Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority to go to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates.” (Rev. 22:14) This is a heavenly city. These who have remained faithful to the end, becoming conquerors, have been baptized into Christ and into his death and have completed that baptism, dying a death of integrity like his and being resurrected in the spirit. The paradise here spoken of is, of course, not literal, but symbolic. The faithful overcomers are granted to eat of the “trees of life.” This denotes their being given the right and title to enjoy immortal life forever in the heavenly paradise of God.—1 Cor. 15:44, 52-54.

The city into which they enter, the holy city New Jerusalem, has twelve angels on guard at its twelve gates of pearl. These angelic guards recognize who these 144,000 faithful spiritual Israelites are and let them enter into the golden city. But for those in whom any form of unrighteousness is found entry is impossible, just as Adam and Eve could by no means get past the flaming sword of the angelic guards stationed at the east of the earthly garden of Eden to reach the tree of life in the middle of the garden.—Rev. 21:12, 13, 18; Gen. 2:9; 3:24.
Revelation WT Bible and Tract Society pps 316-317


Adam and Eve had the way to the tree of life blocked because they lacked faith ,[or in Adam's case didn't care? Like Esau selling his birthright for a mess of pottage?] in God's prophecy: "You will positively die." They [or at least Eve] instead put faith in negative insinuations about God, told them by Satan. They had free will and could choose the un-beneficial course of action, but were warned of consequences.
The Israelites who promised they would do all the things in the law of Moses "All this we are willing to do. We AND our children." mostly neglected to teach their children to really know God, and went about doing what appeared on the surface as beneficial to themselves, and eventually began to think "Jehovah has left the land. He is not seeing us [and our selfish ,lazy, or downright evil thoughts and actions.]
It's "FAITH NOT WORKS, lest any man boast". But works like those of Abraham and Rahab demonstrate that one has "THE FAITH", the one by which Jesus said he had "CONQUERED THE WORLD".

""""The law of God was orally told then."""" - do u have a scrip?
Was Rahab the prostitute in Jericho orally taught this law then? By whom?


"Faith of Jesus" -in his father, Jehovah ,like when he said Luke 22:42 “Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will,+ but yours take place.”+
And-
Matthew 6:10

10 Let your kingdom+ come. Let your will+ take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.+
Mark 14:36

36 And he went on to say: “Abba,* Father,+ all things are possible to you; remove this cup from me. Yet not what I want, but what you want.”+
John 5:30

30 I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative;* just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous,+ because I seek, not my own will, but the will+ of him that sent me.
John 6:38

38 because I have come down from heaven+ to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.+
Anonymous Coward
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08/20/2013 08:13 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


Interesting comments, people have argued over and discussed these things down through the ages. In a nutshell regarding two of your points:

There are TWO laws - the Ten Commandments, which were written on/in stone by God Himself; and the civic and ceremonial laws, which were put in the ark BESIDE the Ten Commandments and were given by God but written in a BOOK by human Moses. Paul was referring to these "Mosaic" laws. Written by God on STONE, the Ten Commandments cannot be changed. Nowhere in the Bible is there a God-authorized or any other change from Sabbath to Sunday (first day), the seventh-day Sabbath is part of the Ten Commandments (the ceremonial sabbaths are in the Mosaic law and were done away with at the cross). Easy to erase something written on paper; almost impossible if it's on stone.

We do not know the length that Jesus and His disciples wore their hair. Most paintings of Him were done eons ago in a time when long hair for men was fashionable. Don't want to go into much detail, but, yes, according to I Corinthians 11:14, Jesus did not have really long hair. They followed the Bible first and then the fashion of their day.

Thanks for your comments, it's always good to study these things.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2268641


No, there is only 1 law and it's 613 commandments. Certain things don't apply anymore because Israel isn't in their land. And Jesus was our sacrifice so ceremonial sacrifices aren't needed anymore etc.

"Ceremonial laws were done away with" Thats false because you're not suppose to eat pork. In Genesis Noah was aware of clean & unclean animals before the laws were even written down.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great



I do not eat pork, I am a vegetarian (see Genesis 1:29 for what God wants us to eat). Yes, Noah knew this as well. AND... the pork/shellfish thing is not in the ceremonial law, it is in the dietary law. There were three sets of Mosaic laws: ceremonial, civic, dietary.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2268641


Yeah thats what I meant. But you don't necessarily have to be a vegetarian now. Meat is permitted by God. But yes, pork and shellfish are forbidden. All Abrahamic religions agree on this. It's only Christians who deny it.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


Listen and understand. What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”Matthew 15:10-11

Now look what you wrote. The kingdom has NOTHING to do with eating and drinking. Nothing that goes in the mouth, to the stomach and passed out in the toilet defiles you. In which case, these man made regulations of do not touch, do not taste etc are GONE.

The thing that comes out of the mouth come from your mind and they are what defile us - thoughts - evil thoughts, fornication, hatred, envy, murder....

Look at our western nations. Our thoughts and beliefs come from the media and it's those which have defiled us. Their images and their words are the ones in our mind and from them we speak and reason. It is that which defiles man. Not pork and shellfish. Go eat some ribs and tell me if they make your mind focus on fornication? How about a lobster? Now go watch an R or X rated movie full of sex and nudity and tell me if your mind does not focus on those things or watch a show that repeats man evolved and tell me if you don't start believing that you evolved. Those defile you.
-GLP-Christian-
Potential Terrorist Under Svea Banér

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08/20/2013 08:20 AM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
God is not retarded and unable to watch over His word. The bible would be utterly corrupted and useless if what OP said were true. It isn't.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40487804


But that is what the tard OP is saying, the tard OP is an enemy of God.

Probably a muzzie or a post trib conspiratard, it's the two main groups that pull this crap because their respective heresies are blown out of the water by the texts that God allowed Paul to speak and write.

Nothing new and so retarded just by this accusation that God isn't able to protect his own word.
You'd think God would have done something sooner than 1800 years later and not sent an idiot like the OP to defend his word from this "deceiver" :D
-GLP-Christian-
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Also it is pretty clear that the idiot OP like all judaizers is bound by the law and being bound by the law the OP has no cloak for his sin and also no escape from it, those bound by the law are commanded to keep all of the law, but I can assure you the OP has not even kept a majority of the law, people like the OP claim to be sinless but they are never that, if the OP has a wife we could ask her to testify about OPs sins.

These morans are so clueless not even understanding why Jesus died on the cross, if they keep their own salvation why did Jesus even die on the cross, they're idiots going to hell.

OP is going to hell, and a lot sooner than the OP thinks.

Probably the last chance for you OP:
[link to biblebelievers.com]
IntoTheLight

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08/20/2013 08:59 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Also it is pretty clear that the idiot OP like all judaizers is bound by the law and being bound by the law the OP has no cloak for his sin and also no escape from it, those bound by the law are commanded to keep all of the law, but I can assure you the OP has not even kept a majority of the law, people like the OP claim to be sinless but they are never that, if the OP has a wife we could ask her to testify about OPs sins.

These morans are so clueless not even understanding why Jesus died on the cross, if they keep their own salvation why did Jesus even die on the cross, they're idiots going to hell.

OP is going to hell, and a lot sooner than the OP thinks.

Probably the last chance for you OP:
[link to biblebelievers.com]
 Quoting: -GLP-Christian-


Hey Bible-Tard!

Where is Hell in the New Testament?

The proper word used in the Bible is 'Gehenna', which was the dump outside the city of Jerusalem which burned away trash continuously.

The word Hell is of Nordic derivation.

Also,It's nice to see YOU speaking FOR God and saying people will go to Hell(which doesn't exist anyway).


I think this applies to you:

Matthew 6:1

'Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.'


If anyone was to burn Bible-Boy,I think you would be one of the first in line!


Amen.


pope

Last Edited by IntoTheLight on 08/20/2013 08:59 AM
6 months UK then 6 months USA.

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


I do not eat pork, I am a vegetarian (see Genesis 1:29 for what God wants us to eat). Yes, Noah knew this as well. AND... the pork/shellfish thing is not in the ceremonial law, it is in the dietary law. There were three sets of Mosaic laws: ceremonial, civic, dietary.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2268641


Yeah thats what I meant. But you don't necessarily have to be a vegetarian now. Meat is permitted by God. But yes, pork and shellfish are forbidden. All Abrahamic religions agree on this. It's only Christians who deny it.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


Wouldn't what I posted tend to argue otherwise? Are you saying Christians shouldn't eat pork or shellfish? If so ,can you justify it from scripture?

"Abrahamic faiths"? Are you like these people in John 1:31?“If YOU remain in my word,+ YOU are really my disciples, 32 and YOU will know the truth,+ and the truth will set YOU free.”+ 33 They replied to him: “We are Abraham’s offspring*+ and never have we been slaves to anybody.+ How is it you say, ‘YOU will become free’?"
They were claiming that made them superior . Jesus told them they weren't even Abraham's children, because they didn't do the works befitting faith in Jehovah, as Abraham had done.

I'll repost this in hopes you'll respond this time. [and since you're apparently no longer responding to what I say, think I'll take this opp'y to go to bed.]


Acts 1:9 The next day as they were pursuing their journey and were approaching the city, Peter went up to the housetop+ about the sixth hour* to pray.+ 10 But he became very hungry and wanted to eat. While they were preparing, he fell into a trance+ 11 and beheld heaven opened+ and some sort of vessel descending like a great linen sheet being let down by its four extremities upon the earth; 12 and in it there were all sorts of four-footed creatures and creeping things of the earth and birds of heaven.+ 13 And a voice came to him: “Rise, Peter, slaughter* and eat!”+ 14 But Peter said: “Not at all, Lord, because never have I eaten anything defiled and unclean.”+ 15 And the voice [spoke] again to him, the second time: “You stop calling defiled+ the things God has cleansed.” 16 This occurred a third time, and immediately the vessel was taken up into heaven.+

acts 15:3... these men continued on their way through both Phoe·nicia and Sa·mari·a, relating in detail the conversion* of people of the nations,+ and they were causing great joy to all the brothers.+ 4 On arriving in Jerusalem they were kindly received+ by the congregation and the apostles and the older men, and they recounted the many things God had done by means of them.+ 5 Yet, some of those of the sect of the Pharisees that had believed rose up from their seats and said: “It is necessary to circumcise them+ and charge them to observe the law of Moses.”+

6 And the apostles and the older men gathered together to see about this affair.+ 7 Now when much disputing+ had taken place, Peter rose and said to them: “Men, brothers, YOU well know that from early days God made the choice among YOU that through my mouth people of the nations should hear the word of the good news and believe;+ 8 and God, who knows the heart,+ bore witness by giving them the holy spirit,+ just as he did to us also. 9 And he made no distinction at all between us and them,+ but purified their hearts by faith.+ 10 Now, therefore, why are YOU making a test of God by imposing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke+ that neither our forefathers nor we were capable of bearing?+ 11 On the contrary, we trust to get saved through the undeserved kindness+ of the Lord Jesus in the same way as those people also.”+

12 At that the entire multitude became silent, and they began to listen to Barna·bas and Paul relate the many signs and portents that God did through them among the nations.+ 13 After they quit speaking, James answered, saying: “Men, brothers, hear me.+ 14 Syme·on*+ has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.+ 15 And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, 16 ‘After these things I shall return and rebuild the booth* of David that is fallen down; and I shall rebuild its ruins and erect it again,+ 17 in order that those who remain of the men may earnestly seek Jehovah,* together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name,* says Jehovah,* who is doing these things,+ 18 known from of old.’*+ 19 Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God,+ 20 but to write them to abstain* from things polluted by idols+ and from fornication*+ and from what is strangled*+ and from blood.*+ 21 For from ancient times* Moses has had in city after city those who preach him, because he is read aloud in the synagogues on every sabbath.”+
 Quoting: chauchat



It's already justified because they were known sins and sin does not change. I gave you the verse with Noah being aware of unclean animals.

No, Christians should not eat pork or shellfish. They are abominations. Do you accept gay christians ? Homosexuality is forbidden in the OT laws.

Abrahamic faiths meaning Islam, Judaism etc. They all agree on the same laws. Jesus is the disagreement. But Christians usually deny following God's commandments when the bible clearly says you should follow them.

If you agree Idolatry, homosexuality, fornication, prostitution etc are forbidden. Then why don't you agree not eating pork & shellfish are forbidden & keeping the sabbath holy is necessary ? They're all from the same law. You can't pick and choose which ones you wanna keep.

I shouldn't have to prove anything. Those are all God's commandments. And it's clear they were known before Moses existed.

Christians were grafted into Israel. You are now apart of Israel meaning you all share the same beliefs.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

If Israel hasn't been casted away, how can you have 2 groups of people with different beliefs ?

God is NOT the author of confusion. There has to be a universal agreement with all believers following the same law.

Again, sin is sin. Sin does not change. God certainly wouldn't let something sinful become "ok" to eat or do. Sin has always been objective. It does not change.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


Law has no power to change the inner nature of man. Law is for the disobedient. Law is our guardian and schoolmaster UNTIL FAITH COMES. Once Faith COMES, sin is what is done that is not of that faith. Matthew 5-7 clearly emphasises the nature of God's laws. Do not murder is given to the disobedient because their hearts are full of hatred towards their brothers so until FAITH puts love for your brothers in your heart you remain under that law. Someone who loves their brother as Jesus loved his brethren DOES NOT MURDER THEM, DOES NOT MOLEST THEM AND DOES NO HARM. His command is to love your brother. Likewise - Do Not commit adultery; it's the underlying LUST that must be removed and overcome. Someone who has overcome sexual lust would never sleep with their neighbour's wife, etc.

Those in Christ love their brothers and do not lust after others. Can you not see that they are the ones who obey Our Father and are being transformed into the very image of Him? The law is a ministration of death. It does the function of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and produces the exact thing that Genesis 3 declared: Dying thou shalt die.

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."

Coveting is an evil. It is the law that defines coveting as an evil and from that you know it as an evil. The knowledge of evil.

"But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead."

One does not know that they are coveting until the law defines it. Then to many people they start thinking about coveting. Likewise, you don't know that you are speeding at 50mph until you pass the speed limit sign that says 30mph. To many people it becomes like a red flag to a bull. Why has drug use increased since drugs are outlawed? The underlying nature of man.

"Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died."

The very law, holy and good, when it came caused the sin nature to spring to life and he died...

Jesus came for the sinners. It is His faith that they are given and through the very Spirit of God inward change occurs to our very sin nature. Hatred is overcome to love. Love does no harm. Lusts are overcome by the very strength and power of God. No adultery and sexually immorality is the result. When the nations do the very things that he declares are right it shows that His laws are written on their heart. Knowing and understanding the underlying sin nature (beast nature of man) and what it produces, we can then understand that the strength of sin IS THE LAW. So therefore Jesus is not writing Do Not Murder in my heart for that is the knowledge of evil. My God in Heaven is love and in Him is no darkness. The Tree of Life is what I choose to partake of and it's fruit is goodness. I don't need the law Do Not Murder if he has placed his love in my heart because obedience has come. But others are still under that law because FAITH HAS NOT COME.

The serpent wanted them to eat from that tree.
It was the vipers and serpents which hounded the early Christians to keep the law of Moses.
And it's no different today.

It is our schoolmaster until faith comes. Faith walked into Judea and we all see the witness left to us. That faith reconciles us to the One True God that Jesus prayed we'd come to know.

The law of Moses was given for the very reason that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was given. We must die to the beast nature, our flesh must be crucified as Jesus portrayed. The law of Moses never transformed anyone because it's job is to show us our nakedness and consequently, our need for Our Saviour. It is to lead us to Christ. If you want to ENTER life, do the commandments. Then sell your riches and follow him. Likewise it was Joshua who led them into the promised land after Moses died. It is our schoolmaster until faith comes. The law is holy and good, but the knowledge of evil is not for those in Christ to keep eating. He is the Tree of Life. We have been commanded to Thinketh no EVIL.
4Q529

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
[link to www.justgivemethetruth.com]

The Apostle Paul Was A Deceiver!

He was Satan In The Flesh! An Antichrist!

Matthew 24:4-5 states you will be deceived by people that come using Jesus’ name. Consider the parable of the sower. Jesus was warning us then that as soon as His Gospel was preached, the enemy (Paul) would be there to steal the truth!


***The real (untranslated) name of Jesus is Y'hoshua (pronounced like the name Joshua but with a Y, YoHoshua, some pronounce his name as Yeshua). All refer to the Son of God who came as the promised Messiah who died on the cross for our sins and rose again.

Now before you throw a tantrum and wonder why I haven't been struck by lightening straight from the throne room of God, I can prove to you that Paul was a Fraud using his own words. Of course, if you're a female, and you're in the ministry, you already know he was, you probably just didn't realize it! For to be a female and in the ministry of the Lord, you had to turn your back on Paul to follow Jesus. Congrats! You figured it out! You refused to buy into the lie pie Satan tried to sell you as Paul!

I'm going to make some startling points to wake your mind up into the truth, so hear me out, then I'll go through and explain each one and give you all the proof you need to see for yourself that what I'm saying is indeed the truth.

Paul was Satan in the Flesh

Paul was never recognized as an apostle by the Disciples OR Jesus

Paul was never trained by the disciples, the men who walked, talked, and broke bread with our Saviour. He received his knowledge from "revelations."

Paul's account of his Damascus Road Experience changed every time he told it, thus the disciples knew he was lying.

Paul declared he was teaching another Gospel of which he himself was the Father

Paul declared he himself was the son of God

Paul issued his own commandments and laws for people to adhere to

Paul taught the exact Opposite of what Jesus and His real disciples did.

Paul worked to destroy and undo everything Jesus and His disciples did and were doing.

Paul was never repentant for being the greatest persecutor of Christians at that time! He boasted about it! Over and Over!

Paul said God's law was a Curse. Jesus said it was a blessing. Who's lying?

Paul condemned Jesus and His disciples for false teachings, he condemned Jesus Himself for having long hair in 1 Corinthians 11:14, something approved in Numbers 6:5 and Judges 13:5.

Jesus Said: Keep the Sabbath (Mark 2:27), circumcise male children (Luke 2:21), Paul Said: Circumcision is not necessary (Romans 2:26) that is going against what the Christ said in Luke 2:21.

In 1 Corinthians 15:1 Paul says that he was not giving them anything but what “he preached.” He explained this even further in the second book (or letter) to the Corinthians (2 Corinthians 11:17). It reads - “That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.” He's telling you plain and simple he was speaking of himself and not from or of the Lord!"

Paul cursed Jesus and His disciples

Paul claimed he himself was the son of God

Paul Supported and demanded Adherence to Iniquity (Discrimination), Jesus said to not let it be found among us! Who's lying?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 510799


You forgot to specify his most important lie: He taught the Egyptian 'god of the dead'-Pharisaical ("synagogue of Satan") doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave, in opposition to the Revelation of "the resurrection" consisting of the Revelation of the Memory of Creation and the revelation of the memories of previous lives.

It was that lie that led directly to the Holocaust.

Michael
Raymantheheretic

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08/20/2013 12:04 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
[link to www.justgivemethetruth.com]

The Apostle Paul Was A Deceiver!

He was Satan In The Flesh! An Antichrist!

Matthew 24:4-5 states you will be deceived by people that come using Jesus’ name. Consider the parable of the sower. Jesus was warning us then that as soon as His Gospel was preached, the enemy (Paul) would be there to steal the truth!


***The real (untranslated) name of Jesus is Y'hoshua (pronounced like the name Joshua but with a Y, YoHoshua, some pronounce his name as Yeshua). All refer to the Son of God who came as the promised Messiah who died on the cross for our sins and rose again.

Now before you throw a tantrum and wonder why I haven't been struck by lightening straight from the throne room of God, I can prove to you that Paul was a Fraud using his own words. Of course, if you're a female, and you're in the ministry, you already know he was, you probably just didn't realize it! For to be a female and in the ministry of the Lord, you had to turn your back on Paul to follow Jesus. Congrats! You figured it out! You refused to buy into the lie pie Satan tried to sell you as Paul!

I'm going to make some startling points to wake your mind up into the truth, so hear me out, then I'll go through and explain each one and give you all the proof you need to see for yourself that what I'm saying is indeed the truth.

Paul was Satan in the Flesh

Paul was never recognized as an apostle by the Disciples OR Jesus

Paul was never trained by the disciples, the men who walked, talked, and broke bread with our Saviour. He received his knowledge from "revelations."

Paul's account of his Damascus Road Experience changed every time he told it, thus the disciples knew he was lying.

Paul declared he was teaching another Gospel of which he himself was the Father

Paul declared he himself was the son of God

Paul issued his own commandments and laws for people to adhere to

Paul taught the exact Opposite of what Jesus and His real disciples did.

Paul worked to destroy and undo everything Jesus and His disciples did and were doing.

Paul was never repentant for being the greatest persecutor of Christians at that time! He boasted about it! Over and Over!

Paul said God's law was a Curse. Jesus said it was a blessing. Who's lying?

Paul condemned Jesus and His disciples for false teachings, he condemned Jesus Himself for having long hair in 1 Corinthians 11:14, something approved in Numbers 6:5 and Judges 13:5.

Jesus Said: Keep the Sabbath (Mark 2:27), circumcise male children (Luke 2:21), Paul Said: Circumcision is not necessary (Romans 2:26) that is going against what the Christ said in Luke 2:21.

In 1 Corinthians 15:1 Paul says that he was not giving them anything but what “he preached.” He explained this even further in the second book (or letter) to the Corinthians (2 Corinthians 11:17). It reads - “That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.” He's telling you plain and simple he was speaking of himself and not from or of the Lord!"

Paul cursed Jesus and His disciples

Paul claimed he himself was the son of God

Paul Supported and demanded Adherence to Iniquity (Discrimination), Jesus said to not let it be found among us! Who's lying?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 510799

clappa
I appreciate all efforts to expose this very important truth.

A few more in depth links for those in doubt or would like to learn more;

[link to www.jesuswordsonly.com]
[link to www.judaismvschristianity.com]

While justgivemethetruth.com is a good start (as it provides several Old and New Testament quotes to back it's claims about Paul), the layout is a bit of an eyesore to read and once it strays to other non-biblical topics it goes suspiciously haywire.
Raymantheheretic

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
quit being a damn mexican and read this book

[link to www.amazon.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44966510


What's with the mexican jab? Anyway I checked out your suggested reading and it's just more of the same claptrap distractions about Paul's theology that have filled thousands of volumes already. Complete waste of time imo.

Last Edited by Raymantheheretic on 08/20/2013 04:32 PM
Raymantheheretic

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
God is not retarded and unable to watch over His word. The bible would be utterly corrupted and useless if what OP said were true. It isn't.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40487804

The Living Word doesn't require being watched over. What is called for wherever it's supposedly found in printed form is careful discernment instead of swallowing every word as if it were literately issued from the mouth of God. This includes not giving equal weight to the words of His own Son as we have a documented murderer and liar.
Raymantheheretic

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08/20/2013 12:31 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
From biblegateway.com NIV 2Peter 3:14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

So whom should we believe? Someone as scripturally ignorant as yourself or an apostle who had the power to bind and loose things on Heaven and earth vested in him by Christ himself?
 Quoting: Jesus Christ is the way


Paul may well have been trying his best. But I stopped reading his stuff after I got the definite impression that I understood more than he did.

He used to be a prick. He converted, but he has / had a long way to go to understand some things.

I just recommend skipping Paul's letters when reading the NT. That also leaves out most Protestant "evangelism", but heck think of how cheap those TV preachers who push Paul's writing really are anyway, that should be another clue that what they're pushing is not right.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4991783
A better choice than trying to swallow the whole thing hook line and sinker. In contrast to many that would decry Paul's teachings as false there is to me a great lesson to be learned in the fact so many have been fooled by Paul's letters for so long and the destruction adhering to them so closely has wrought.
Raymantheheretic

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08/20/2013 12:36 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Hitler arrived at the same conclusion; said as much.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1663367
I would be interested in seeing the source for this as it is news to me. Hitler supposedly revered Nietzsche who it is claimed to have loved Jesus but hated Paul. Interesting stuff.
Anonymous Coward
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08/20/2013 12:38 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Paul's account of his Damascus Road Experience changed every time he told it, thus the disciples knew he was lying.

Paul declared he was teaching another Gospel of which he himself was the Father

Paul declared he himself was the son of God

Paul issued his own commandments and laws for people to adhere to

Paul taught the exact Opposite of what Jesus and His real disciples did.

Paul worked to destroy and undo everything Jesus and His disciples did and were doing.

Paul cursed Jesus and His disciples

Paul claimed he himself was the son of God

Who's lying?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 510799


cruise

You are.
Raymantheheretic

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08/20/2013 12:47 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
I don't even know how anyone in there right mind can say he wasn't an Apostle, its pretty clear he is throughout the New Testament. So do you have another Apostle in mind who you are going to replace him with? i guess you anti-Paulians like to dissect and rewrite the whole New Testament not to bright, God does not look favorably on people who rewrite his Holy Book, bad idea.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26300532
Yes, it's quite clear how many people lack any sort of knowledge that Paul in no way fulfilled the requirements set down for being a genuine Apostle of Jesus in his time.

Apparently finding in second Peter his being claimed a dear brother that wrote much that was difficult to understand and easily twisted is enough to prove Paul was a true Apostle.
goodevil
Raymantheheretic

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08/20/2013 01:03 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
OP,

Please QUOTE some examples of what you say is Paul's "Satanic deception."

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5329659

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5329659


Too bad OP has neglected you but in defense there is a mountain of evidence that points to this deception. I would suggest doing your own homework. In the meantime Paul is on record as stating three times at length how it is okay to eat meat sacrificed to idols when that practice was one of the few things the original Apostles specifically forbade to the newly converted.
Raymantheheretic

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08/20/2013 01:16 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
[link to www.justgivemethetruth.com]

The Apostle Paul Was A Deceiver!

He was Satan In The Flesh! An Antichrist!

Matthew 24:4-5 states you will be deceived by people that come using Jesus’ name. Consider the parable of the sower. Jesus was warning us then that as soon as His Gospel was preached, the enemy (Paul) would be there to steal the truth!



Paul said God's law was a Curse. Jesus said it was a blessing. Who's lying?

Paul condemned Jesus and His disciples for false teachings, he condemned Jesus Himself for having long hair in 1 Corinthians 11:14, something approved in Numbers 6:5 and Judges 13:5.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 510799


Interesting comments, people have argued over and discussed these things down through the ages.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2268641

Not exactly. For the first 300 years or so the early Church raged over the controversy of Paul's teaching. His side then prevailed and proceeded to wipe out all of those that disagreed along with every written trace that there was any disagreement in the first place. While a few notable historic figures such as Thomas Jefferson have pointed out the huge discrepancies between the teachings of Jesus and Paul, it is only just recently the issue has really started to heat up again. Go figure...

News








We're dropping truth bombs like it's the end of days!