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The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!

 
Raymantheheretic

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08/20/2013 01:34 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Alexander The Great & chauchat needed to get a room to hash out the minutia of the Law rather than trashing this thread with it.

Sheesh, almost three solid pages way off topic. Enough to make one think it was deliberately contrived as a smokescreen uhoh
4Q529

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08/20/2013 01:42 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
OP,

Please QUOTE some examples of what you say is Paul's "Satanic deception."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5329659


I would direct you, first, to Chapter 2, verses 16-18 of Paul's second letter to Timothy:

"Have nothing to do with pointless philosophical discussions--they only lead further and further away from the true religion. Talk of this kind corrodes like gangrene, as in the case of Hymenaeus and Phlietus, the men who have gone right away from the truth and claim that the resurrection has already taken place...

This is a flagrant contradiction of Chapter 27, verses 52-53 of the Gospel of Matthew, which is a figurative description of the revelation of the memories of previous lives--i.e., "the resurrection"--received by some of the immediate followers of Jesus.

So, for these immediate followers of Jesus, "the resurrection" had "already taken place".

Oh, by the way, the "pointless philosophical discussion" was over whether "the resurrection" is the Egyptian 'god of the dead' doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave--the position taken by Pharisee Paul--or whether it was related to memories of previous lives.

Michael

Last Edited by 4Q529 on 08/20/2013 01:52 PM
Bible thumper!!!!!!!!!!
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08/20/2013 01:53 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
They are trying to demonize Paul because he wrote the book of Romans which condemns homosexuality in a big way.

Guarantee you whoever is saying this is Gay.



Paul was one of the most prolific bible writers of his time.

He wrote many very important books including Romans.

Paul was a very important example of one who at first being a Jew persecuted early christens.

However Jesus in heavenly form struck him blind. when his eyes were opened he made a significant moral conversion to Christianity himself thus setting the example for many other Jews Samaritans and Gentiles.

And by the way if your speaking in English Jesus is spelled with a J just like Jeremiah Juhonadab Jehrico. Etc. a Y would be used in certain other langauges.

however in English the proper Translation is J


Read your bible The J is used because it is translated into English where the proper Letter for y is J
Anonymous Coward
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08/20/2013 01:56 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Damn lying cathlicks.



14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord to be salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

2nd Peter 3
Anonymous Coward
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08/20/2013 01:58 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
OK OP-- Then how are you saved?

It was by Paul's gospel of grace the plan of salvation was revealed.

"But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."

Paul had to convince the other apostles he actually had this new revelation. The apostles in Jerusalem were sitting around waiting for the tribulation to begin and then be ready for Christ to return in short order to set up the kingdom they were promised. They steeped in Judiasm trying to keep the law in a dead works religion. It takes time for people to break old habits.

In God's perspective the law is good, and holy, but from man's perspective it is impossible to keep and a curse. You seriously need to read and understand ACTS 15-- With special attention as to what Peter had to say in verses 10 and 11. Paul did more to raise women up to help in ministry than any other ... look at Phoebe and Priscilla for example...

The crud you are spewing about Paul is just conjecture and twisting of scripture and taking it out of context. Repent of this evil speaking.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Damn lying cathlicks.



14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord to be salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

2nd Peter 3
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42022752


Missed this part. This pertains to the OP.
4Q529

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Paul was a very important example of one who at first being a Jew persecuted early christens.
 Quoting: Bible thumper!!!!!!!!!! 25288653


He became a double agent.

First, he murdered the followers of Jesus because they contradicted the Pharisaical teaching on "the resurrection".

But, when that didn't work, he decided to create Christianity and destroy the Teaching of Jesus on "the resurrection" from the inside.

If you understood the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees--which you don't--you would be able to see this.

Michael

Last Edited by 4Q529 on 08/20/2013 01:58 PM
Raymantheheretic

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08/20/2013 01:59 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
[link to www.justgivemethetruth.com]

The Apostle Paul Was A Deceiver!

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 510799


You forgot to specify his most important lie: He taught the Egyptian 'god of the dead'-Pharisaical ("synagogue of Satan") doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave, in opposition to the Revelation of "the resurrection" consisting of the Revelation of the Memory of Creation and the revelation of the memories of previous lives.

It was that lie that led directly to the Holocaust.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529
Didn't forget so much as, I'm sure like most folk including myself, had no idea.

................Michael-v
.......Michael->deadhorse<-Michael.......
Egyptain gods story-^

Keep on flogging though man. One day, once we can all truly understand Paul's role, we'll be sure to come to the realization of the truth of yours.
4Q529

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08/20/2013 02:03 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
The crud you are spewing about Paul is just conjecture and twisting of scripture and taking it out of context. Repent of this evil speaking.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45467419


2 Timothy 2:16-18 is not "just conjecture"; it is the words of Paul.

Chapter 27, verses 52-53 of the Gospel of Matthew are not "out of context".

You don't understand the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees either.

Michael
Raymantheheretic

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08/20/2013 02:19 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
They are trying to demonize Paul because he wrote the book of Romans which condemns homosexuality in a big way.

Guarantee you whoever is saying this is Gay.
 Quoting: Bible thumper!!!!!!!!!! 25288653
Thanks for letting us know what's on your mind. Which BTW [seems to be] planted firmly in the gutter.

[:edit]for accuracy and decency
Paul was one of the most prolific bible writers of his time.

He wrote many very important books including Romans.
 Quoting: Bible thumper!!!!!!!!!! 25288653
Don't stop there. Paul is credited with writing 1/2 of the NT books. Never let it be said that God is unfair for He allowed His adversary equal time in the pages of His own Holy Book!

Paul was a very important example of one who at first being a Jew persecuted early christens.

However Jesus in heavenly form struck him blind. when his eyes were opened he made a significant moral conversion to Christianity himself thus setting the example for many other Jews Samaritans and Gentiles.
 Quoting: Bible thumper!!!!!!!!!! 25288653
So why is it the story of Paul's conversion, although told multiple times, never gets told the same twice?

Last Edited by Raymantheheretic on 08/20/2013 02:27 PM
Sword of mercy

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08/20/2013 02:32 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Some people may get confused due to back translations.
We will pass through the Seven Years or serve God's Will as martyrs.
chauchat

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08/20/2013 04:51 PM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Alexander The Great & chauchat needed to get a room to hash out the minutia of the Law rather than trashing this thread with it.

Sheesh, almost three solid pages way off topic. Enough to make one think it was deliberately contrived as a smokescreen uhoh
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic


I guess I should feel flattered, if you're saying I helped contrive a smokescreen? Not smart enough to be that devious, even if I wanted to be.
'Sides,“I have not sat with men of untruth; and with those who hide what they are I do not come in.” (Psalm 26:4) What is meant by “those who hide what they are”? Some Bible translations here read “hypocrites.” As one reference work notes, this expression can be applied to “those who hide their purposes or designs from others, or who conceal their real character and intentions.” [link to wol.jw.org]

Why is it minutia[e]?
But actually, seems to me if ,as you claim, Paul can, no, MUST be thrown out of the Bible, what's to stop you from dismissing anything else you don't like or don't understand?

It's not our fault OP disappeared. And ATG's claiming we're still under the law covenant seems a big part of the whole anti-Paul bandwagon's resentment of Paul.
Paul clarified how and why no one is still under the law-covenant.
chauchat

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08/20/2013 05:04 PM

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
[link to www.justgivemethetruth.com]

The Apostle Paul Was A Deceiver!

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 510799


You forgot to specify his most important lie: He taught the Egyptian 'god of the dead'-Pharisaical ("synagogue of Satan") doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave, in opposition to the Revelation of "the resurrection" consisting of the Revelation of the Memory of Creation and the revelation of the memories of previous lives.

It was that lie that led directly to the Holocaust.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529
Didn't forget so much as, I'm sure like most folk including myself, had no idea.

................Michael-v
.......Michael->deadhorse<-Michael.......
Egyptain gods story-^

Keep on flogging though man. One day, once we can all truly understand Paul's role, we'll be sure to come to the realization of the truth of yours.
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic


If our Creator, Jehovah God, has put the desire to live forever in the hearts of men, it is only logical that he would also explain how that desire can be satisfied. The Bible reveals the Creator’s lofty purpose to bless obedient humans with everlasting life on a paradise earth. “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it,” said the inspired psalmist, King David. (Psalm 37:29) A primary Bible doctrine inseparably linked with God’s eternal purpose is the resurrection of the dead.—Acts 24:15; 1 Corinthians 15:16-19.

Resurrection—The Proven Hope for the Dead

The Bible contains eight eyewitness accounts of people being raised from the dead back to life on earth.* These were cases of resurrection, not reincarnation. The ones brought back from the dead were immediately recognized by family and friends. In no case did the relatives need to search among newborns near and far to try and ascertain if one of the infants was the reincarnated soul of their dead loved one.—John 11:43-45.

Reassuringly, God’s Word indicates that the vast majority of those who have died will come back in the resurrection of the dead in God’s new world, which will soon replace this wicked world here on earth. (2 Peter 3:13, 14) Right now, the life patterns of billions of individuals are preserved in the limitless, perfect memory of Jehovah, the God who even remembers the names of all the stars! (Psalm 147:4; Revelation 20:13) When he restores successive generations of people to life in his new world, they will be able to trace their family tree and personally get to know their ancestors. What a fascinating, thrilling prospect! [link to wol.jw.org]
4Q529

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08/20/2013 06:17 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
[link to www.justgivemethetruth.com]

The Apostle Paul Was A Deceiver!

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 510799


You forgot to specify his most important lie: He taught the Egyptian 'god of the dead'-Pharisaical ("synagogue of Satan") doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave, in opposition to the Revelation of "the resurrection" consisting of the Revelation of the Memory of Creation and the revelation of the memories of previous lives.

It was that lie that led directly to the Holocaust.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529
Didn't forget so much as, I'm sure like most folk including myself, had no idea.

................Michael-v
.......Michael->deadhorse<-Michael.......
Egyptain gods story-^

Keep on flogging though man. One day, once we can all truly understand Paul's role, we'll be sure to come to the realization of the truth of yours.
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic


Resurrection—The Proven Hope for the Dead

The Bible contains eight eyewitness accounts of people being raised from the dead back to life on earth.* These were cases of resurrection, not reincarnation.
 Quoting: chauchat


"For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little. That they might go and fall backwards and be broken and snared and taken."--the prophet Isaiah

Even if there were a physical raising of a dead body from the grave, there is NO doctrine in either the Torah or the Prophets that that physical body will have eternal life.

NONE.

Thus, even a body raised from the grave would have to die.

Then what?

The doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave is exclusively a Pharisaical-"synagogue of Satan" doctrine paralleling the Egyptian 'god of the dead' doctrine.

Or Jesus was an anti-Semite.

Michael
4Q529

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Reassuringly, God’s Word indicates that the vast majority of those who have died will come back in the resurrection of the dead in God’s new world, which will soon replace this wicked world here on earth.
 Quoting: chauchat


According to Chapter 12 of the Book of Daniel, not merely the "vast majority" but everyone will be 'raised from the dead'--both the just ("to everlasting life") and the wicked ("to shame and everlasting contempt").

Michael (interestingly enough)

Last Edited by 4Q529 on 08/20/2013 06:21 PM
Raymantheheretic

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08/20/2013 06:44 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Alexander The Great & chauchat needed to get a room to hash out the minutia of the Law rather than trashing this thread with it.

Sheesh, almost three solid pages way off topic. Enough to make one think it was deliberately contrived as a smokescreen uhoh
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic


I guess I should feel flattered, if you're saying I helped contrive a smokescreen? Not smart enough to be that devious, even if I wanted to be.
'Sides,“I have not sat with men of untruth; and with those who hide what they are I do not come in.” (Psalm 26:4) What is meant by “those who hide what they are”? Some Bible translations here read “hypocrites.” As one reference work notes, this expression can be applied to “those who hide their purposes or designs from others, or who conceal their real character and intentions.” [link to wol.jw.org]

Why is it minutia[e]?
But actually, seems to me if ,as you claim, Paul can, no, MUST be thrown out of the Bible, what's to stop you from dismissing anything else you don't like or don't understand?

It's not our fault OP disappeared. And ATG's claiming we're still under the law covenant seems a big part of the whole anti-Paul bandwagon's resentment of Paul.
Paul clarified how and why no one is still under the law-covenant.
 Quoting: chauchat


You guessed wrong on multiple counts. No contriving on either side, only partaking. Possible on ATG's side but not likely on a conscious level. People hide what they are even from themselves. The behavior is as if the matter of Paul had been firmly dealt with so the better informed less clouded minds could move on and argue more substantial issues like the abominable status of pork and shrimp.

Are you getting the tiny picture yet?

While where Paul stands on the Law is huge to some it's more of giant sign or red flag to me. If you haven't thoroughly mastered the golden rule, which seems to include everyone one of us to some degree, the other 600 or so rules for living a good life and a maintaining a healthy society don't matter so much. Keeping in mind all of the Law is for our benefit, not God's, we've no honest incentive for holding various facets of the Law over the head of others in order to measure and improve their Godly performance...

Oh man, now you got me doing it, argh...

I suggest you take up bible editing with someone who advocates it. Which is not me. Paul is the text book example of what happens when we allow a mere man to speak for God and the horrors that follow i.e. Revelations. On my life I would never choose to remove a single sentence of his inflammatory highly convoluted doublespeak. I just want people to see it for what is.

"Paul clarified how and why no one is still under the law-covenant"

Right, yeah. Clear as evil dark viscous goo which you and ATG proved for going on three pages now.

'The Law is a curse!'
'All things are lawful unto me!'
'Should I break the Law? God forbid!'

[:woops- conscious not conscience]

Last Edited by Raymantheheretic on 08/20/2013 06:56 PM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Some people may get confused due to back translations.
 Quoting: Sword of mercy


Looking at the comments in this thread, no wonder Christianity is in a state of confusion. Hundreds of denominations and dozens of Bible translations, paraphrases, versions, and perversions. Don't see this going on to such an extent in the world of Islam. What a slap in the face of Christianity when Christians can't agree on anything, even within the same denomination, they can't all be right. All these versions of the Bible have made things even worse.
Anonymous Coward
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08/20/2013 07:29 PM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
OP. Your claim is interesting.

Truth be told, the reason I tossed xtianity was because of Paul's heavy influence and distortion of what I had first fell in love with....that being....the simple message of Jesus.

Somewhere, along the way, I tried to come to some redemption of xtianity by studying Saint Francis of Assisi.

I think he was an example of the Jesus teaching...but my studies were so long ago that I can't remember if he ever utilized Paul's teaching in his way of Jesus.

Personally, I believe Paul's entrance into the early xtian flock was detrimental to what xtianity has become.

Sadly, that is the way it happens with all religions.

+5, OP, for telling the truth.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
OP. Your claim is interesting.

Truth be told, the reason I tossed xtianity was because of Paul's heavy influence and distortion of what I had first fell in love with....that being....the simple message of Jesus.

Somewhere, along the way, I tried to come to some redemption of xtianity by studying Saint Francis of Assisi.

I think he was an example of the Jesus teaching...but my studies were so long ago that I can't remember if he ever utilized Paul's teaching in his way of Jesus.

Personally, I believe Paul's entrance into the early xtian flock was detrimental to what xtianity has become.

Sadly, that is the way it happens with all religions.

+5, OP, for telling the truth.
Anonymous Coward
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08/21/2013 01:05 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


No, there is only 1 law and it's 613 commandments. Certain things don't apply anymore because Israel isn't in their land. And Jesus was our sacrifice so ceremonial sacrifices aren't needed anymore etc.

"Ceremonial laws were done away with" Thats false because you're not suppose to eat pork. In Genesis Noah was aware of clean & unclean animals before the laws were even written down.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great



I do not eat pork, I am a vegetarian (see Genesis 1:29 for what God wants us to eat). Yes, Noah knew this as well. AND... the pork/shellfish thing is not in the ceremonial law, it is in the dietary law. There were three sets of Mosaic laws: ceremonial, civic, dietary.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2268641


Yeah thats what I meant. But you don't necessarily have to be a vegetarian now. Meat is permitted by God. But yes, pork and shellfish are forbidden. All Abrahamic religions agree on this. It's only Christians who deny it.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


Listen and understand. What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”Matthew 15:10-11

Now look what you wrote. The kingdom has NOTHING to do with eating and drinking. Nothing that goes in the mouth, to the stomach and passed out in the toilet defiles you. In which case, these man made regulations of do not touch, do not taste etc are GONE.

The thing that comes out of the mouth come from your mind and they are what defile us - thoughts - evil thoughts, fornication, hatred, envy, murder....

Look at our western nations. Our thoughts and beliefs come from the media and it's those which have defiled us. Their images and their words are the ones in our mind and from them we speak and reason. It is that which defiles man. Not pork and shellfish. Go eat some ribs and tell me if they make your mind focus on fornication? How about a lobster? Now go watch an R or X rated movie full of sex and nudity and tell me if your mind does not focus on those things or watch a show that repeats man evolved and tell me if you don't start believing that you evolved. Those defile you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45448535


Shut up, that verse has nothing to do with unclean foods. You strayed off topic. That verse is a metaphor for sin.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


Even though you're not making any sense. Is idolatry, fornication, murder etc ok now ? Why did Paul mention it ?

Does sin no longer exist ? If there's only 2 commandments now given from Jesus ?
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


Various things such as idolatry, fornication, murder are forbidden under new covenant law. But new covenant law is not the Law of Moses. It's like how murder is illegal in Canada and USA, but each country has its own set of laws.

You're saying Jesus is not under the Law of Moses. Are you saying that it is okay for Jesus to commit idolatry, fornication, murder, etc? Think about that.

You already said Jesus was executed for sins right? Bible says:

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
-- 1 John 2:2


Think about THAT!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15806667


Jesus followed the law so I don't understand your point. How can you take commandments from the mosaic law but say it doesn't apply ?

The NT has no laws according to christians. Meaning there is no sin.

Faith without works is dead. And works is following commandments.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


If Jesus was still under the Law of Moses, Jesus could not be High Priest.

For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
-- Hebrews 7:28

The NT has no laws according to YOU. Christians can easily find laws in there.

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
-- John 13:34

Jesus said what the work God wants is:

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
-- John 6:28-29
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27650742


Those commandments are mentioned in the OT laws so you fail.

Leviticus 19:18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

You're still following the LAW of God

Matthew 5:18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mark 3:2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.

Jesus clearly followed the Mosaic Law. So you have completely failed.
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
...


Jesus followed the law so I don't understand your point. How can you take commandments from the mosaic law but say it doesn't apply ?

The NT has no laws according to christians. Meaning there is no sin.

Faith without works is dead. And works is following commandments.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


James 2:18 Nevertheless, a certain one will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith by my works.”+ 19 You believe there is one God, do you?+ You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder.*+ 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is inactive? 21 Was not Abraham our father+ declared righteous by works after he had offered up Isaac his son upon the altar?+ 22 You behold that [his] faith worked along with his works and by [his] works [his] faith was perfected,+ 23 and the scripture was fulfilled which says: “Abraham put faith in Jehovah,* and it was counted to him as righteousness,”+ and he came to be called “Jehovah’s* friend.”+

24 YOU see that a man is to be declared righteous+ by works,+ and not by faith alone.+ 25 In the same manner was not also Ra&#8242;hab+ the harlot declared righteous by works, after she had received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way?+ 26 Indeed, as the body without spirit* is dead,+ so also faith without works is dead.+

Abraham and Rahab here are given as examples of showing their faith by their works. A. lived before the law covenant was given. And R. was not an Israelite and thus not under the law covenant. Their works were not about carrying out "the law". Their works showed in Whom they put their faith.
 Quoting: chauchat



Sir, Commandments existed before the law was written. Abraham smashed all his father's idols before he was given the land of Canaan. This is written in the Book Of Jasher which is referenced in the bible.

The law of God was orally told then.

It seems you don't know what "the law" is. Giving to charity, helping the poor etc is in the law of God.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do God's commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

What Commandments ?

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus

Faith in Christ is separate from God's commandments.
 Quoting: Alexander The Great


I'm a "ma'am", not a sir.

Rev. 22:14 Happy are those who wash their robes,+ that the authority [to go] to the trees* of life+ may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates.+

ADMISSION TO THE HOLY CITY

Jehovah now focuses attention on the faithful 144,000 followers of Christ who have heavenly hopes and who have accepted the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and have by faith been loosed from their sins by means of his blood so that they may appear free from sin in God’s sight. (Rev. 1:5; 1 John 1:7) He says: “Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority to go to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates.” (Rev. 22:14) This is a heavenly city. These who have remained faithful to the end, becoming conquerors, have been baptized into Christ and into his death and have completed that baptism, dying a death of integrity like his and being resurrected in the spirit. The paradise here spoken of is, of course, not literal, but symbolic. The faithful overcomers are granted to eat of the “trees of life.” This denotes their being given the right and title to enjoy immortal life forever in the heavenly paradise of God.—1 Cor. 15:44, 52-54.

The city into which they enter, the holy city New Jerusalem, has twelve angels on guard at its twelve gates of pearl. These angelic guards recognize who these 144,000 faithful spiritual Israelites are and let them enter into the golden city. But for those in whom any form of unrighteousness is found entry is impossible, just as Adam and Eve could by no means get past the flaming sword of the angelic guards stationed at the east of the earthly garden of Eden to reach the tree of life in the middle of the garden.—Rev. 21:12, 13, 18; Gen. 2:9; 3:24.
Revelation WT Bible and Tract Society pps 316-317


Adam and Eve had the way to the tree of life blocked because they lacked faith ,[or in Adam's case didn't care? Like Esau selling his birthright for a mess of pottage?] in God's prophecy: "You will positively die." They [or at least Eve] instead put faith in negative insinuations about God, told them by Satan. They had free will and could choose the un-beneficial course of action, but were warned of consequences.
The Israelites who promised they would do all the things in the law of Moses "All this we are willing to do. We AND our children." mostly neglected to teach their children to really know God, and went about doing what appeared on the surface as beneficial to themselves, and eventually began to think "Jehovah has left the land. He is not seeing us [and our selfish ,lazy, or downright evil thoughts and actions.]
It's "FAITH NOT WORKS, lest any man boast". But works like those of Abraham and Rahab demonstrate that one has "THE FAITH", the one by which Jesus said he had "CONQUERED THE WORLD".

""""The law of God was orally told then."""" - do u have a scrip?
Was Rahab the prostitute in Jericho orally taught this law then? By whom?


"Faith of Jesus" -in his father, Jehovah ,like when he said Luke 22:42 “Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will,+ but yours take place.”+
And-
Matthew 6:10

10 Let your kingdom+ come. Let your will+ take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.+
Mark 14:36

36 And he went on to say: “Abba,* Father,+ all things are possible to you; remove this cup from me. Yet not what I want, but what you want.”+
John 5:30

30 I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative;* just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous,+ because I seek, not my own will, but the will+ of him that sent me.
John 6:38

38 because I have come down from heaven+ to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.+
 Quoting: chauchat


You're still not getting it. How was Noah aware of unclean foods when no law was written down ?

Jesus said nothing would disappear from the Law until Heaven and Earth pass away.

I think someone else needs to explain it to you.

[link to www.youtube.com]

A sin today was a sin then. Does the bible not say the days will revert back to the days of Noah ?

1 John 3:4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated lawlessness; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Sin is lawlessness. But you don't have a law to follow correct ?
Anonymous Coward
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08/21/2013 01:38 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
I came to the same conclusion by simply reading the bible on my own. It is obvious he was against the true disciples and that he wanted to change God's laws.
Anonymous Coward
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08/21/2013 01:43 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
OP,

Please QUOTE some examples of what you say is Paul's "Satanic deception."

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5329659


Too bad OP has neglected you but in defense there is a mountain of evidence that points to this deception. I would suggest doing your own homework. In the meantime Paul is on record as stating three times at length how it is okay to eat meat sacrificed to idols when that practice was one of the few things the original Apostles specifically forbade to the newly converted.
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic

I've done 33 years worth of homework?

Quotes of Paul's "Satanic deceptions," please?

Idol meat? Really, that's the best you got, Mr. Inquisitor?
Anonymous Coward
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08/21/2013 01:48 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
OP,

Please QUOTE some examples of what you say is Paul's "Satanic deception."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5329659


I would direct you, first, to Chapter 2, verses 16-18 of Paul's second letter to Timothy:

"Have nothing to do with pointless philosophical discussions--they only lead further and further away from the true religion. Talk of this kind corrodes like gangrene, as in the case of Hymenaeus and Phlietus, the men who have gone right away from the truth and claim that the resurrection has already taken place...

This is a flagrant contradiction of Chapter 27, verses 52-53 of the Gospel of Matthew, which is a figurative description of the revelation of the memories of previous lives--i.e., "the resurrection"--received by some of the immediate followers of Jesus.

So, for these immediate followers of Jesus, "the resurrection" had "already taken place".

Oh, by the way, the "pointless philosophical discussion" was over whether "the resurrection" is the Egyptian 'god of the dead' doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave--the position taken by Pharisee Paul--or whether it was related to memories of previous lives.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


You are incapable of clearly telling me in one simple sentence or two exactly what Paul said that is "satanic deception."

Your already lame same old manufactured masturbation of a story of the secret truths making you super Michael is just more of the very bullshit that is your sole purpose for existence- worshipping yourself. You balance your empty and insignificant life in your own psyche by making yourself So Very Significant.

You are full of shit.
Johnbert.Lennonstein

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08/21/2013 01:52 AM
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
i never liked paul
Go in peace, and find thy faith, evolve thyself, and lose all hate... so a heaven, you may create...
Johnbert.Lennonstein

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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
who the fuck was paul anyway

was he even one of the disciples?
Go in peace, and find thy faith, evolve thyself, and lose all hate... so a heaven, you may create...
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
[link to www.justgivemethetruth.com]

The Apostle Paul Was A Deceiver!

He was Satan In The Flesh! An Antichrist!

Matthew 24:4-5 states you will be deceived by people that come using Jesus’ name. Consider the parable of the sower. Jesus was warning us then that as soon as His Gospel was preached, the enemy (Paul) would be there to steal the truth!


***The real (untranslated) name of Jesus is Y'hoshua (pronounced like the name Joshua but with a Y, YoHoshua, some pronounce his name as Yeshua). All refer to the Son of God who came as the promised Messiah who died on the cross for our sins and rose again.

Now before you throw a tantrum and wonder why I haven't been struck by lightening straight from the throne room of God, I can prove to you that Paul was a Fraud using his own words. Of course, if you're a female, and you're in the ministry, you already know he was, you probably just didn't realize it! For to be a female and in the ministry of the Lord, you had to turn your back on Paul to follow Jesus. Congrats! You figured it out! You refused to buy into the lie pie Satan tried to sell you as Paul!

I'm going to make some startling points to wake your mind up into the truth, so hear me out, then I'll go through and explain each one and give you all the proof you need to see for yourself that what I'm saying is indeed the truth.

Paul was Satan in the Flesh

Paul was never recognized as an apostle by the Disciples OR Jesus

Paul was never trained by the disciples, the men who walked, talked, and broke bread with our Saviour. He received his knowledge from "revelations."

Paul's account of his Damascus Road Experience changed every time he told it, thus the disciples knew he was lying.

Paul declared he was teaching another Gospel of which he himself was the Father

Paul declared he himself was the son of God

Paul issued his own commandments and laws for people to adhere to

Paul taught the exact Opposite of what Jesus and His real disciples did.

Paul worked to destroy and undo everything Jesus and His disciples did and were doing.

Paul was never repentant for being the greatest persecutor of Christians at that time! He boasted about it! Over and Over!

Paul said God's law was a Curse. Jesus said it was a blessing. Who's lying?

Paul condemned Jesus and His disciples for false teachings, he condemned Jesus Himself for having long hair in 1 Corinthians 11:14, something approved in Numbers 6:5 and Judges 13:5.

Jesus Said: Keep the Sabbath (Mark 2:27), circumcise male children (Luke 2:21), Paul Said: Circumcision is not necessary (Romans 2:26) that is going against what the Christ said in Luke 2:21.

In 1 Corinthians 15:1 Paul says that he was not giving them anything but what “he preached.” He explained this even further in the second book (or letter) to the Corinthians (2 Corinthians 11:17). It reads - “That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.” He's telling you plain and simple he was speaking of himself and not from or of the Lord!"

Paul cursed Jesus and His disciples

Paul claimed he himself was the son of God

Paul Supported and demanded Adherence to Iniquity (Discrimination), Jesus said to not let it be found among us! Who's lying?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 510799


You forgot to specify his most important lie: He taught the Egyptian 'god of the dead'-Pharisaical ("synagogue of Satan") doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave, in opposition to the Revelation of "the resurrection" consisting of the Revelation of the Memory of Creation and the revelation of the memories of previous lives.

It was that lie that led directly to the Holocaust.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


Paul taught physical resurrection from the grave because that is what Jesus taught.


Joh 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
God is not retarded and unable to watch over His word. The bible would be utterly corrupted and useless if what OP said were true. It isn't.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40487804


God also gave us the Holy Spirit to discern truth from lies and we are also tested by God. Maybe, it is the stumbling block set before us that we must overcome. We must study to show ourselves approved. There are many mysteries and layers to the bible. Things are not always as they seem at first reading. Most important we must all study the bible for ourselves and believe what the Holy Spirit is teaching us. Second, Yeshua's words should be the ultimate authority, followed by the appointed 12 Aposltes in that order. Paul's words should never be believed if they contradict these two.
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Re: The biggest blunder in the church for years!! The Paul Deception!
Here's my take about Paul. Paul was commissioned to speak to the Gentiles. Though Yahshuah said Paul was his vessel to the Gentile and the Hebrew Israelites, Paul's audience has always been for the Gentile converts.

With that said, I find real problems with Paul's teaching on doing the Covenant. He teach to the Gentiles that following the Covenant is not necessary when Yahshuah died for your sins and that, if you do follow the Covenant then you have to do all that's required of the Covenant.

Now two problems with that. As a Hebrew Israelite, I know the Covenant is never to be done away with. That is an agreement made between Yah and our forefather Abraham, and the descendants forever. It can be changed and remodeled but only by Yah.

And it is the very reason why the descendants of the Hebrew Israelites were slaved in America and are still here today, because of our forefather breaking the Covenant with Yah.

So, with the curse of Deuteronomy 28:15-68 still in affect in this day and age, how could Paul think the Covenant can be done away with since Yahshuah died for our sins?? The curses is still kicking our ass! I know every Black man and woman can testify to that!

Yahshuah didn't come to destroy the Law. He came to fulfill it. And the Law is with the Covenant. So, again, as a Hebrew Israelite and in light of the situation I laid out, I come to this:

The Hebrew Israelite are, and to be, a set-apart people from the Gentile Nation (Caucasian/Europeans). It is NOT for the Hebrew Israelites to follow Paul but for the Gentile Nations to do so.

The Hebrew Israelites keel the Torah,

1. The Ten acommandment

2. The Laws and Instruction

3. The Sabbath Day

4. The Covenant which encompasses the 3.





Shalom